Dr. Rhonda Patrick: Fasting, Creatine, Brain Performance & Longevity Breakthroughs | PBD #740

I'm 47 [music] years old. I want to feel 30 by the time I'm done talking to you. >> The cells in our body have a biological age and that biological age can be younger if you're leading a really healthy lifestyle. Or they can be older. >> Give me three things. [music] You'll say these are three crazy wild things we may see. >> Yeah. So this is where you can basically take [music] this old skin cell and make the cell young. So essentially reversing the aging, but also we can grow organs. Like that's a new thing. So you can basically take someone who [music] has a disease and completely wipe that disease out. It's really kind of cool tuning up you can get. >> Will [music] we get to a point that people would choose what their kids are going to look like? Cuz that's pretty scary if you can get to that point. [music] >> I mean that's the ethical question. >> I mean what does the world look like in 5000 years if we're able to do that? We're living in [music] the shortcut era. Serena Williams, she did a GLP1 commercial. The average woman looks at us and says if she couldn't do it naturally, why should I [music] try to do it naturally with exercise? doing intermittent fasting or or counting calories does require effort. Whereas taking a pill does not the pill does it for you. Exercise [music] is the key and not just any type of exercise. You have to get your heart rate up. You have to move faster. [music] Being sedentary is a disease and we need to start thinking about it as a disease. At the end of the day, I'm excited about healthier living. I'm excited about, you know, Yeah. So, it's not often I do an interview and I take six pages of notes while the guest is speaking, but that's what happened today with Dr. Rhonda Patrick. Fascinating. We talked about chemotherapy, the effects of it. We talked about GLP1. She reacted to what Oprah Winfrey said a few weeks ago that being fat is a gene that she has. It's not her fault. And her reaction to it was very detailed, very thorough. We talk about diet, exercise, what causes 13 different types of cancer that you have control over, which when you're not going through it, you don't think about it, but if you can prevent it, you may as well talk a lot of different things. What's healthier for you? Being married with kids, being married or staying single simply, what is healthier for you to do? So, the tie between being uh uh bilingual and reducing Alzheimer's. Why would being bilingual lower Alzheimer's? Some of the effects of your gut has with inflammation. Just a very fascinating conversation. It's gonna feel like a five-10 minute conversation when you listen to it because you by the time you're done listening to Dr. Ronda Patrick, you're going to be making a few different lifestyle changes that is going to positively impact you probably the same way it's tuned it's tuned with me. So having said that, enjoy this interview with Dr. Ronda Patrick. Did you ever think you would make it? I feel so I could taste sweet. [cheering] >> Adam, what's your point? >> The future looks bright. [music] >> My handshake is better than anything I ever signed right here. [music] >> You are a one of one. >> My son's right. I don't think I've ever said this before. >> Really? >> You can be pushed out of California. Maybe that's something we'll talk about. Okay. So, I got a couple goals today. I'm 47 years old. I want to feel 30 by the time I'm done talking to you. Specifically, what things I can do to feel 30. Number two is I have a four-year-old daughter who loves candy and I have my 84 year old dad, 83y old dad that lives with us. That's is is our dealer. Him and our nanny Mela. And so, maybe we'll talk about that as well. Candy, kids, cereal. I know we talked about cereal a minute ago. Uh, but for the people that don't know you, I've seen you. You've been on Rogan 10 plus times. You've been all over the place. We've been consuming you for many years. My wife, the family, we watch your content uh, with the things you've talked about. Creatin, you know, a bunch of different things that you discuss. But if the audience doesn't know, if you don't mind taking a minute to introduce yourself, that'd be great. >> Well, first of all, thank you, Patrick, for inviting me on the show. It's a pleasure to be here. For those people who are wondering who I am, I my name is Rhonda Patrick. I have a PhD in biomedical science and classically, you know, I trained as as a lab science scientist doing research in the field of aging, cancer, metabolism, nutrition. So, I've really got a broad range of different types of research I've done over the years. But my true passion is public health and trying to educate people using science and evidence evidence-based science in terms of like what they can do with their lifestyle, their diet to really, as you said, improve the way you age. So, you know, there's our chronological age and number. You're 47. I'm also [clears throat] 47. But what what's what what's different here is that even though we have this chronological age number, depending on how we live our life, >> the cells in our body have a biological age. And that biological age can be younger if you're leading a really healthy lifestyle or they can be older, accelerated if you don't lead a healthy lifestyle. So if you're overweight and you smoke, you drink, things like that, right? So you really want to have a younger biological age relative to your chronological age. And so there are a few things that we can talk about that really do help people get there. >> Um, but I will say that um, so you asked me who I am. So I love public health and I decided to start a podcast about 10 years ago. So, I have a podcast called Found My Fitness where I interview guests that are MDs, PhDs, all about, you know, how what kind of research we're doing and how it's bas basically showing how people can live a healthier life by doing a variety of different lifestyle changes and dietary changes to improve the way they age. And I love it because I left science, you know, I left science, I left doing research in the lab. And the thing that I missed most were the conversations I would have with other scientists because you learn so much. It's so intellectually stimulating, much more than reading a scientific publication. I, in fact, that's one of the reasons why I started the podcast is because it was like, well, I learned so much from, you know, these little conversations I have, you know, in the coffee room or at my cubicle or in, you know, some professor's office. And it's like, why not record these conversations for the public so they can learn? And it's really been great ever since. >> I love it. By the way, for people that are not in it, I think the the movement of, you know, the the health podcast that are there's a lot of them, but there's good five 10 of them that you'll consistently keep hearing about that they're fair. You being one of them that are being interviewed, but it's good for the average person. Instead of going to the doctor, sometimes you're driving, listen to two, three hour podcast. You know what? Let me change my lifestyle and this and that. I got a question for you. I wanted to open up with this just came to my mind. It wasn't on the plan. The day Chad GBT came out was revolutionary to everything. Everybody looked at we used to Google then you know I think it was first week of Chad GBT hey do me a favor and create a song in Tupac's voice but the way that the president speaks and then you saw that one clip came out wait a minute that's amazing Chad GBT I want you to take this research and then all this data started coming out and like this things have changed 2 three years however long it's been how quickly do you think we're going to have new advancement the next 5 10 20 that will be just as shocking as open AI. I'm super excited about how, you know, these these language models, these these basically like LLMs and how AI is going to help really advance science and particularly science in the field of aging, you know, because at the end of the day, you can do everything in your capacity with your diet and your lifestyle to really give yourself that, you know, edge in terms of like aging better and living longer. But at the end of the day, you do have a certain genetic potential. Like you could eat, you know, healthy and exercise and still not live to be 120, right? There there there is a genetic component to living to be 100. >> Healthy and exercise and still not live to 100. >> Living to 100, believe it or not, is largely genetic. >> But but that doesn't mean that, you know, diet and lifestyle don't matter. They matter a great deal. It's a matter of, you know, basically your quality of life and not having Alzheimer's disease and cardiovascular disease and type two diabetes and things like that later in life really degrading the quality of your life and perhaps giving you an extra five years. Right? But you're not going to live 25 30 years more by just being healthy. Right? So this is where gene engineering comes in and that's where I think the AI also comes in because it's really going to I think >> exponentially move that field forward whereas it's been kind of like >> you know it's been progressing but at a pretty slow rate and >> what do you think we'll see like what give me three things you'll say these are three crazy wild things we may see. >> Yeah. So there's this, you've heard of stem cells, right? Of course. And have you heard of, do you know who Shinya Yamanaka is? The Japanese scientist. He won the Nobel Prize in 2006 for >> basically discovering that you could take any cell from a person, an 80-year-old person, an old cell. You know, we're constantly getting skin cells are falling off our body constantly. You can take some of those old skin cells from an 80-year-old woman for example, >> and you could put four different what are called transcription factors. It's basically just, you know, a gene that basically is a master regulator of many, many different genes. So, it activates genes or it, you know, silences them so they're not active. And you could put four of them on this skin cell, okay? And you could revert that skin cell into what's called a pur potent stem cell. So, that that would be a a cell that could become pretty much any type of cell in the body. And so, this is induced pur potent stem cells. And this is what Dr. Dr. Yamanaka won the Nobel Prize for because it's really the ultimate reversal of aging. If you take an old cell and turn it into a stem cell that become can become any type of cell, a neuron, an eye cell, a you know a heart cell, right? >> But um so this is where it gets really exciting. You don't want to basically you don't want if you want to reverse aging, you don't want the cell to lose its identity, right? You want to take a cell and reverse its aging but keep it that same cell, right? So I just told you the skin cell becomes a stem cell and then it can become any type of cell. So now we have some new data. This is all animal data where you can basically take this old skin cell and just kind of pulse those four different you know those big genes, those transcription factors on the skin cell and you can epigenetically wipe out. So epigenetics is like those factors that are sitting on top of our DNA like you know methyl groups and they're activating genes or deactivating them. you can wipe them out and make the cell young but still keep its identity. And this has been done in animals. So essentially reversing the aging. No one's been able to I mean there's a lot of hurdles to overcome in terms of like how do we get this into humans? You know the delivery system is kind of questionable because what they're doing in animals is giving it this virus and it's like well the virus could potentially integrate into the genome and maybe be encogenic. So you have there's a lot of things to overcome before it goes to humans. And I think that's where AI is going to come in and help us figure out how we can translate this data into humans. And I don't know if that made sense to you, but it's kind of this futurism type of stuff, but it's very exciting. >> It is. So, but I guess what I want to go more to is I I watched a movie yesterday, the uh Saturday called Mercy just came out with Chris Pratt. And it it's like it's one of these movies. What was that movie back in the days where it could predict somebody committing a future crime? Minority Report >> and Chris Pratt, who's a cop, comes in and this this software, this judge is AI, her name is Mercy, and he comes in and all of a sudden he wakes up. He doesn't know what's going on. And Mercy says, "You just killed your wife and you stabbed your wife XYZ time." He's like, "Wait, what? I would never do this." And the AI convinces him that he did. And then eventually you have 90 minutes to make the argument that you didn't do this. So pull up this file and put up that file and pull up you become the lawyer for yourself. Very interesting futuristic. And the way it ended the story I'm not going to tell you what it ended but the line that he says. He says here's what we learn that both humans and AI can make mistakes. >> But when you watch it it was kind of like man this is very realistic. We can get here very soon. I it for the average individual if you say okay what are some things people want to do we want to live a healthy life enjoy it live long pain-free right enjoy ourselves to the point where you know I can still move my body in my 90s in my 80s maybe make it 200s what massive resounding you know innovation could happen that'll shock everybody is there anything because we've heard about stem cells right we've heard about stem cells I went to Beverly Hills, one of our clients invited me. I got 80 million stem cells in my back. They said, "This is going to fix your lower back problem." Nothing happened. Is there anything that you think could happen that's revolutionary? >> Well, I think that stem cells could be part of that, I would say, equation. So, we can have, you know, stem cells then that are tuning up every organ in our body, right? And not just for regeneration or recovery, but also we can grow organs. Like that's a new thing where people scientists are now growing like even 3D printing human organs. And so it's like oh your heart's giving out. We're going to grow a new organ. It's from your own cells. So you're not going to have that rejection, you know, that rejection type of phenotype that happens. So this organ regrowing thing is really cool where you're basically going to get a tuneup. Oh, I I need a new liver. You know, it's not working at the end of the day. uh I need to inject some some neural stem cells in my brain because I'm losing you know brain my brain's atrophing I'm losing cells in my brain. So uh I do think that's all on the horizon. >> Can that be measurable? Like can it be done in a way where I instantly can see results? Like let's just say you know uh uh systems attached to my brain and it says okay what we just did it took you from this number to this number. Look where you're at now just by doing this test. instead of it could work 52% of the time it works like will there be things that I know for a fact will work >> well if you're looking at for example brain mass yes I mean if you see that you're injecting stem cells and now you're growing new neurons in the hippocampus part of your brain which is involved with learning and memory then that would be something that you can measure u by the way exercise can regrow [laughter] brain cells in your hippocampus as well so that's that's one of the things that we do have control over right now we can talk about that But um and then gene therapy. So like we do know there are a variety of what are called longevity genes. Like these are genes that are found in people that live to be 100. So these are centinarians. Or semi super centinarians. So these are people that live to be 105 or the super centinarian. So these are people that live to be 110 and older. There's a common denominator of really highly active genes that are found in these individuals. And these genes happen to be genes that are involved in basically this cellular stress response, which is essentially when you stress your body, your body adapts and responds and goes, "Uhoh, there's stress going on. I need to respond to this so that I can stay alive." And it does thing like does things like increases antioxidant genes or anti-inflammatory genes or genes involved in making stem cells. All kinds of these like stress response genes are really highly active in people that actually do live to be a 100 plus. And so gene therapy can then deliver those genes to the right organs in humans. And then again, you'll be able to, you know, now deal with the stresses of aging better. And I think that's another thing on the horizon. So for example, Dr. George Church, he's really the godfather of gene engineering, played a role in discovering the human genome. He's done studies in rodents in mice where they took, you know, three or four genes and made them, you know, soluble, injected them in mice and it extended their life expectancy. It reversed aging of their organs. He's now doing clinical studies in dogs. Um, it's much easier to get FDA approval to do these sort of things in dogs than humans. But it's like, you know, once you get to the dogs, >> you have humans that are like, of course, I want my dog to live longer. And so they're going to, you know, start to approve approve those sort of therapies for dogs and then it's easier to then start them in humans. So I think again AI is going to play a role in getting some of these gene therapies, you know, from bench side from, you know, this pre-clinical data into humans. And all this is super exciting because >> Oh, I'm excited. And my optimism is the the fact that you guys going to figure things out. That that that's what I'm relying on. I I think the the the speed of using AI and gene what was that one company video that we saw uh was it crisper was it called crisper was it called crisper crisper >> so is that kind of what you're talking about that that's the direction we could be going >> crisper is one one of the directions so so gene therapy versus gene editing so gene editing would be crisper that's a technology that's used to change just like a single nucleotide of DNA which can change the function of a gene so for example some people have, you know, these these variations in our genes that make us not have them work as good. >> Some people have diseases because of it, right? Cystic fibrosis being one, right? Muscular distrophe, right? Things like that where you have just a little one nucleotide or two nucleotide change in a gene and it completely completely alters the function. So crisper can come in and actually change that gene. So you can basically take someone who has a disease and completely wipe that disease out and reverse it so they don't have it anymore. or um perhaps you can al alter the the DNA of of a gene and make it work better. Gene therapy is where you're basically just putting more of a gene there. So let's say we all we have these longevity genes for example FOXO3 being one. This is a major transcription factor. Again, it's regulating multiple genes involved in everything I just said. Antioxidant production, anti-inflammatory production, you know, stem cell production, all these things. this the the response to all kinds of different stressors that happens throughout our life as we age and you're b basically able to handle that stress better. So what you do with gene therapy is just give your boost you get a boost more of that of that gene that's going to make everything else work better kind of like a genetic tuneup. So there's a little bit of difference between gene therapy and gene editing and I think they can both work and it really depends. They'll be it'll be more of an individual sort of personalized type approach because everyone we have different genetic makeups and we have different you know benefits and and there's and there's things that we aren't as good at depending on our genetic makeup, right? And so um it's really kind of cool tuning up you can get. >> It is and and I I think I saw an article a few months ago where it said you know we there's going to be a time we can go in and say you know I want my daughter to be 5'11. I want her to have blonde hair. I want her to have blue eyes. Will we get to a point that people would choose what their kids are going to look like? Because that's pretty scary if you can get to that point. >> Well, I mean, that's the ethical question because yes, you could potentially do that with the gene editing technology and crisper and some of the, you know, some of the other types of technology that come out and a little bit more precise that are part of crisper. I think that, you know, right now, I mean, think about IVF, right? You go and people they're getting screening. you're screening for genetic diseases if the embryo has a disease. You don't do so at a certain point like where do you draw the line? Okay, well I don't want my child to have cystic fibrosis. Okay, that that's acceptable, right? Because that's like obviously >> but that's the risk versus this is exactly what I want them to look like. Right. >> Right. I mean that's and that's where it's like well what if you want to make what if you want to make an embryo that is smarter that is more resilient to disease? you know, these things are probably going to be more acceptable in the community than than phenotypes, than looks, right? So, it's like it's hard. It's like this blurry line and where what's what's ethical, what's not, and how do you define that? And it's going to be hard. There's going to be all sorts of questions and I would say problems that are going to arise as this technology advances. And it is very exciting, right? I mean, you're talking about what if we could tune up humans where we're we're smarter, we're more disease resistant, we live longer. I mean, who doesn't want that? >> What would you take? What would you do? You're in this world. Like, what would you want to see? Because for me, when I think about uh, you know, kids, what you would want it to look like, what you would, you know, how smart you would want them to be. Then it gets me to go think about, you know, the whole I don't know if you saw the article came out last week about u uh Chinese billionaires doing birth tourism and dropping off uh uh surrogates with hundreds of girls and hey, I want you to go to US, become a citizen, then come back in. Okay, so now let's take it even further. And then now we're making superhumans, 150 IQ strong, they can jump 48 inches. And I mean, what does the world look like in 5000 years if we're able to do that, >> right? I mean it it's a really good question not to mention the fact that you know if you start to screen for intelligence and like how do you define intelligent right because >> we have this like neurode divergence you know people are so different and some people are very analytical you have that engineering type of brain and then you have the more conspiracy type and maybe a little more paranoid but those people also play a role in society and they can connect the dots real easy and maybe sometimes they're making conclusions that might be not correct but sometimes they find things that people that are really super super analytical don't. And so it's it's a it's a good question because like you then you have to ask yourself like well am I screening for a certain personality type and how is that going to change society, right? I mean because it it's it's it's hard to to draw that line and I know we're getting into these crazy ethical questions. At the end of the day, I'm excited about healthier living. I'm excited about you know Yeah. Like intelligence again. How do you define intelligence? Like that's a whole >> other question. We do know some genes that are involved in intelligence. One actually is called clotho and that gene is also involved in living longer and protecting against Alzheimer's disease. So it's very interesting. Some people have different variations of that gene that makes it more active and those individuals don't get Alzheimer's disease. They do have a higher IQ. They do they are smarter and they live longer. And so, you know, there there are there is an initiative now for some researchers that are really trying to make a type of cloth that people can sort of inject and take and get to the brain and help protect them from Alzheimer's disease, help, you know, make them live longer, perhaps be a little smarter. And that's actually research that's going on right now. So, you know, it's not like this stuff is like totally futurism stuff. This is this is research that's happening now. And I do think that with the help of AI, it will advance it. With that said, you said something that I think is key and that is AI makes mistakes. And I can't emphasize that enough. And certainly with each model that has come out, you know, over over the past couple of years, it's gotten better, especially for talking about the science, the field of science and research. But I will say this, it depends a lot on your prompt, what your input you're putting in. Because what I've noticed about AI is it also likes to kind of appease you. So if you're the more it you bias it a certain way with the way you're asking a question, you might get a very different answer. And I've tested this. >> It also depends on the model that you're using. I think that the free models >> don't ask science or research questions. It's not going to be accurate. If you're wanting to to actually get a science really evidence-based, you know, answer, you have to have the paid version for one and really a deep research. And that's something that's able to go out and look at the scientific literature. And that is something that I would trust much more than just using like a GPT 5.2 free, you know, version of it. So, I'll say that. I'll leave it at that because you can definitely get wrong answers when it comes to asking a science-based or medicine based one. >> Yesterday, my CTO came to me says, "Hey, look, there they measure every month which uh language learning model is the most accurate." And right now, for the last month, he was showing me that Gemini is at the top at 38.5% accuracy versus a lot of other things. So, even till today, it's still making mistakes. And they're openly saying we don't know it all. We are making mistakes. But you know in regards to brain right the way we think back in the days or maybe even still today we would say oh my god he's got a photographic memory he just remember how do you how do you remember that you know how do you how do you read a book and you you retain so much of it right how impressive will that be in 10 years 20 years where we can all you know people choose to put a Wikipedia and hear all the facts that are in the world the facts like the day you were born, the day I was born, the day you know World War II or such and such person died or this happened. Once that's in there, what do you think will be impressive in two 20 30 years with human beings? What will we look at and say, "Man, she's pretty impressive. He's impressive." What will impress us? I know that's a it's an interesting thought experiment because it might be something that is unexpected and surprising like more just empathy or human qualities or art or being able to make something really creative that you're not really going to be able to do with with AI, right? I don't know. Or like being able to sing a beautiful song like AI can make that music. You're talking about Tupac and Right. I mean >> my husband and I make AI music for my my son to help him. He's been learning Mandarin and it's like amazing like the the music that AI can make. It's almost frightening because you might go wow like you know what's going to happen to the you know music industry. >> Yes. >> But um I do think that at the end of the day what's going to happen is as we get more you know advanced with AI and as you mentioned perhaps we do become smarter maybe through gene engineering and all sorts of other techniques and advancements. I think it's going to go back to the human condition and that's going to be more impressive. I think that's I don't know. That's just a guess. Tell >> what do you mean by human condition? >> I mean I mean you know the arts and empathy and just you know being creative and and creating something that's that you're not going to be able to get with just facts, right? >> Yeah. I guess in in bodybuilding they'll say you know uh this is the natural Mr. Olympia competition right they put nothing in their body and this is open you know this guy's you know you can use anything and everything and he's the Mr. Olympia champion. I wonder if we're going to get to the even today. I think we have an Olympic games today that they're talking about called the enhanced games or something. I don't know. Have you heard about the enhanced games? It's literally called enhanced games. >> And in this enhanced games, they encourage you to do peed. Everybody's on peed and just let's find out what does it look like if we're freely able to use everything, right? So, I wonder I wonder if it's going to be like, you know, he naturally looks like that. That's natural beauty. You know, she's done no surgeries. He's done no surgeries. He hasn't put the stuff in his brain to be interested in what he has to say. Or else podcasts are going to be what then? Are we going to watch AI podcast? Is there going to be two personalities like Gemini's Mary is doing a podcast with Open AI's Bobby and they're debating politics and we can program one to be a leftist, one to be a conservative and go ahead and debate this issue and state the facts. Will we be going there? Are we going to be like, man, I would much rather talk to listen to these guys because they're regular human beings making mistakes. And >> is it going to be attractive to be dumb? Is it going to be attractive to make, you know, dumb comments? I really wonder what's going to happen in 20 30 years because it's it's going to be a commodity if you're smart. So what? >> I can have the same thing you have. I just put a chip in my head. You're no longer competitive to me. So why go study? Like you know we would hear people say I knew how to study for two days memorize everything go ace the test and forgot all of it right and that's what college is really all about. I really wonder what's going to happen and what will be turned what will we be turned on to >> mistakes. I love it. We all make them. [laughter] >> I think so as well. I think so as well. Yesterday I'm talking to a guy who's a very successful business guy. He's telling me he's got a $100 million eBay and all this other stuff. And he said, "Hey, come how come my content is not, you know, doing better? How come my podcast is not doing better?" And I watch him. I'm like, "Okay, he's a billionaire. He's done this. He's done that. He's done this." So on on on everything you looks good, bodybuilding, physique. I said, "You're too perfect." I I I think the audience likes imperfection. The audience likes to see flaws in people, passion, >> realness, vulnerability, sincerity. I I think again we don't know. I think in 20 years as this advances we're going to want to see human error. We're going to see we're going to want to see that again. Just like today you see a lot of companies rely on AI on customer service. Some companies are like clients are like I don't want to talk to a machine. I want to talk to a human being. I won't talk to somebody with service. So anyways, we'll see what happen with this. I'm just wondering sometimes where you're at with it. >> Yeah. I don't I I get the I feel the same way when I get an email in and it's so obvious when it's AI generated. I I crave the the real authentic email. It's not AI generated. Right. >> Yeah. So Brian Johnson, have you heard about Brian Johnson who says he wants to live forever? He says he's 47 years old. He looks good. He says he's got a body of an 18-year-old when he does his tests. Do Do you follow what he talks about? Uh Brian Johnson, I don't maybe you've not heard of him. >> I've heard of him. >> Okay. >> Um >> he's our age. I think he's a year older than us and his claims are his entire idea is anti-aging. I think he wants to live forever [clears throat] and he says his body is an 18-y old body. What do you say about that? [snorts] >> I say that right now the tests that are done to measure biological age and I did talk about this a little bit without going into detail, they are done on a population level. So, it's a very bioatistical test that's done that really really relies on large large sample numbers. And so, there's there's these tests that are done. They're measuring epigenetic changes >> and they can basically just basically, you know, measure your biological age. But the the standard of deviation is about four to five years. So, when you have, you know, hundreds of thousands of different people coming into that, you know, sample size, it's a lot more accurate. you can actually do a large study and and and figure out like what someone's biological age is and what different lifestyle factors can regulate that. When you go down to these consumer available tests at the individual level, it's a lot of noise because again the standard of deviation is four to five years on average. And so the test isn't really that accurate on the individual level. So you could do that test and then do it again in two weeks and have five years difference. Right? >> So my take-home from that is you can claim all these things being 18, biologically 18. I don't think that's accurate. I think that there that you know Brian Johnson's doing a lot of things right with his diet and lifestyle and he is you know improving the way he ages. It's a lot easier to reverse accelerated aging. So in other words, if you were doing things bad in your diet, so if you're eating a lot of pro ultrarocessed foods, if you're overweight, if you smoke, if you drink a lot, if you're sedentary and don't exercise, you're kind of accelerating the way you age. And it's a lot easier to slow that acceleration, which makes it look like reverse aging. But if you're already doing everything really that you can to to live as healthy as you can, it's really hard to re reverse that biological age by 20 years because you're already doing sort of everything, right? >> And that's where these new technologies come into play. So I would say I don't believe that Brian Johnson's 18. You know, >> you don't believe he's 18. >> His biological. No, not at all. I do believe that he is healthier because he does a lot of things right. He exercises a lot, which is the number one thing you can do. He's eats very clean. You know, he's dialed in a lot of really important metrics in terms of like aging healthy, but I think it's a very sensational statement to say that I'm biologically 18 even though I'm 47. >> I don't I don't think that's accurate at all. >> It's attractive to men his age, right? People hear and they're like, "Wait a minute. I'd like to be 18 again. You know, what does it take for me to be 18 again?" Is there anything men can do today to get their body to be that much younger? So, I'll tell you I'll tell you about a study that was done from Dr. Ben Lavine. This he's a he's probably one of the world's leading experts in exercise physiology. >> He Ben Lavine >> Ben Lavine, Dr. Ben Lavine, he's out of UT Southwest in Dallas. He's got a a big research lab there. >> And he did a study on middle-aged adults. So, these are adults that are age 50 years old. >> They had no diagnosible diseases. So they didn't have type two diabetes or cardiovascular disease, but they were sedentary. So they were not exercising. And I would argue that is a disease. Being sedentary is a disease. But what I'm saying is they didn't have any of these other classical diseases. And he he took these individuals and asked a question. Can I put them on a pretty regimented exercise program for two years and reverse the aging of their hearts? Now your heart aging does you can accelerate it if you are smoking if you are sedentary if you eat a lot of added sugar all these things accelerate the aging of your heart. So as we age our hearts get stiffer and our hearts shrink and that really predisposes us to cardiovascular disease the number one killer in United States as well as many other developed you know countries. So he took these individuals and put them in two groups. one group was going to get the exercise treatment and the other group was a sham control sort of a placebo and they were doing sort of stretching yoga-ish type of exercises enough to make them think they were getting the intervention right so the individuals that got the treatment the exercise treatment I mean this is a progressive program it's two years long you can't just take someone who's never really exercised and just immediately make them start doing five hours a week of exercise right it's too much so it was a progressive loading these individuals over the course of six months sort of worked their way up to actually doing five hours of exercise a week. A large amount of that exercise was cardiovascular exercise where they were jogging, they were on a stationary cycle, getting their heart rate up to the point where they could have a conversation, but it was very, very breathy. And then they also incorporated what's called highintensity interval training. Have you heard of this? This is where you're getting, you know, you're doing, you're pushing yourself a little bit harder where you can't have that breathy conversation because you're working so hard. You're getting your heart rate up to 80 80% max heart rate or more. And then you recover for a period of time and then you do it again. And there's a lot of different types of protocols out there. They were doing one called the Norwegian 4x4 protocol. This is where you are for four minutes going as hard as you can to and maintaining that effort for four minutes. So you're not going all out is a four-minute interval. So you're going hard, but you're pacing yourself. >> It's still a HIT workout. >> It's a HIT workout. And and then you have a threeminut recovery where you're going very light. You're really wanting your heart rate to come down. And then you do that again four times. So it's four by four. And that workout they were doing twice a week then went down to once a week. Okay. So after 2 years of this, you know, five hours a week and I would say they also did some resistance training. They added some of that in there as well. The aging of their hearts was reversed by about 20 years. 20 years. So their hearts, these were 50-y olds, 52 at the end of the the trial, their hearts looked like a 32y old. In terms of the structure, >> 52 to 32. >> Yes. And this is the structure. So I'm talking about the hearts grew. Remember I told you it shrinks with age. So they grew >> and the hearts became more flexible. Right. >> You said something every year at certain point your organs what did you say decrease by percent to 2% or was that the heart you were talking about? I >> that's the brain. We can talk about that because exercise also affects that. But the heart, you know, it does get stiffer and it shrinks over time. And depending on how much you exercise, the percentage can change. And one of the biggest reasons for the stiffening of the heart is actually taking in a lot of refined added sugar. So sugar, if it's not immediately taken up into your muscles, which is what exercise does, it really opens the the gates and allows glucose to come into your muscles. If you're not exercising even, you know, after you make insulin and of course you're going to take some into atapost tissue, some into muscle, you're going to have a lot of glucose around in your vascular system. And what happens is it there's a reaction that happens on the molecular level where the glucose interacts with collagen that lines the myioardium and the paricardio cardium around your heart and that collagen becomes stiffer when it reacts with glucose and that collagen is there forever. This this is something that's around forever. And so that's why exercise is so so important for increasing the flexibility of your heart because it's getting that glucose out of your vascular system, out of reacting with the the collagen surrounding not only your blood vessels that causes hypertension, but your your heart, right? And so I I just think that's the most compelling and just really encouraging study for individuals that are middleage and really have never exercised that they can actually reverse the agings of their aging of their heart by 20 years. And so and this is what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about doing the the DNA test, the epigenetic test that has all the statistical noise. I'm talking about actual structural changes in the heart. Right? So that to me would be the best thing that you can do. And I said 5 hours a week. Now for someone that doesn't exercise at all, that probably sounds like crazy amounts of exercise. And it is. I mean, I do I do about six hours a week of of exercise. >> But you know, >> does that count? Cardio or no? >> Cardio and resistance training. I do both. I do both. But I think that you what's really important here is that people need to think about exercise as part of their personal hygiene. something you have to like can you imagine do you wake up every morning and brush your teeth? >> Do you brush your teeth before you go to bed? >> Why? >> It's a routine now for me. >> It's a routine and you do it because you don't want cavities, right? >> You don't want cavities, breath, cavities, you you don't want to go to the dentist. Bunch of different things, >> right? It's part of your personal hygiene. >> Sure. >> Exercise should be thought of as in the same way where it's like I I exercise because I don't want to get cardiovascular disease because I want to reverse brain aging. And we can talk about studies showing that as well. It's something that you really need to think about as part of your personal hygiene. And as you start to develop a routine, guess what? It is a routine. You just you start to do it. It's not there's no question about it. It's not an add-on. It's not if I have time. >> You're right. But then the the the if you think about today's era we're living in, somebody will listen to this, okay, and they'll say, "Give me a break. I know I need to exercise. Tell me what the shortcut is." Right? Because you we're living in the shortcut era. If you think about, you know, Serena Williams, I think she did a GLP-1 commercial for Ozmpic. If I'm No, it wasn't Ozmpic. It's a different company. She did even for Super Bowl. You see her when she played tennis, you see what she looks like today. The average woman looks at us and says, "If she couldn't do it naturally, why should I try to do it naturally with exercise?" Oprah Winfrey, uh, don't know if you saw this clip on the view. Rob, can you pull this clip up on the view of what she said? She's on the view and she says, "It took me this many years to realize that uh being fat is not my fault. It's my genetics or it's my DNA." And by the way, you may agree with her. Go ahead and play this clip prop. Go for it. >> All these years I thought I was overeing. I was standing there with all the food noise. What I ate, what I should eat, how many calories was that, how long is it going to take? I thought that that was because of me and my fault. Now I understand that if you carry the obesity gene, if that is what you have, that is what makes you overeat, you don't overeat and become obese. Obesity causes you to overeat. Obesity causes you to have all of that food noise. And what the GLP1s have done for me, and I know a number of other people, is to quiet that noise. >> Do you agree with her? >> No. >> Okay, tell me why. Okay, so this is going to be a very long- winded answer because there's a lot of components there to unpack. I mean, >> because the average person watches this, she's 72, 72 years old, looking like that. They're going to say, "Why wouldn't I do it?" >> Right? So, there's a lot of things to unpack here. Okay, first of all, there's no just obesity gene. Okay, there are, you know, genes that are associated with predisposing someone to gaining fat easier and affecting satiation and things like that easier, right? But it's not like there's just one obesity gene that makes you obese. With that said, okay, what she's talking about here with with it wasn't my fault. You have to realize that we have studies now where you can take there's healthy men, okay? They're not overweight, they're not obese, >> and you can put them on a high caloric ultrarocessed food diet for 5 days. And what I mean by that is they're consuming 1,200 to,500 more calories per day predominantly from processed foods. the cereal you were talking about. This is the this is the food that's high in added sugar and saturated fat. And what happens is it causes their brain to become insulin resistant. Yes, you can cause your brain also to become insulin resistant. We usually think about you know our cells in our body becoming insulin resistant. What happens when your brain becomes insulin resistant is the following. For one, insulin in the brain plays a very important role. And that role is to basically tell the body how to store fat and how to use energy and whether or not you're satiated after eating a meal. And what happens is when you're insulin resistant in the brain, it all gets messed up. And so your body starts to store fat not as what's called subcutaneous fat, that kind of fat that you can pinch and see. It's visceral fat. This is the belly fat. This is the fat that's deeply surrounding your organs. This is the very dangerous type of fat because this fat is metabolically active. It is generating inflammation. It is constantly being metabolized in what's called free fatty acids which then cause insulin resistance. Right? And so what happens is that you can these individuals these healthy young men all of a sudden even though they didn't really gain much weight on the scale they gained visceral fat and they were no longer you know satiated. So what happens is when you become insulin resistant both in the brain and in the body. So visceral fat gaining they they were gaining fat around their liver. I mean they were gaining fat this visceral fat that is really really dangerous. that visceral fat. What happens is every time you eat, you know, a meal that's got a lot of glucose, for example, refined ultrarocessed meal, your body makes insulin, but you're insulin resistant. So, you're not able to respond to that insulin. And so, what happens is your body overcompensates and produces your pancreas causes more insulin to be released as an overcompensation to help your body bring that glucose into your muscle or into your atapost tissue. And then what happens is your blood sugar crashes. And so that tells the brain, "Oh, I'm in a I'm in a crisis. I need energy right now." And you crave these high energy, you know, high calorically dense foods. And it's this vicious cycle where you start to overeat more. You can you can totally reset that system by decreasing your calorie intake. And there's a variety of ways of doing that. And also by including highintensity interval training, any type of aerobic exercise is good. It it causes you to lose visceral fat. Even if you don't shed the pounds on the scale, the losing of the visceral fat is the key because that's the whole cycle of basically disrupting your satiety hormones, how you feel, you know, satiated after you eat or like hungry, you know, all of a sudden you're hungry even though you just ate a meal, right? That's all part of insulin resistance and visceral fat. And so if you reduce your calorie intake, and there's ways you can do that, counting calories is one. A lot of people like intermittent fasting. Intermittent fasting is something that I do and it's really, you know, I'm I'm middle-aged, right? I told you I'm 47 >> and I've realized that everything that I do, even though I've been doing it for years, all of a sudden, as your hormones start to change, you know, you do start to kind of get more visceral fat. And that's something that's known to happen with women as they're aging, right? I had to cut calories. That was the that was the main thing I had to do even though I was doing high-intensity exercise, all that stuff. calorie cutting is the number one way that you can actually lose visceral fat and ultimately lose weight. And essentially the GLP-1, you know, receptor agonist, these drugs that are ombic and all the other next generation ones are essentially doing that. You're you're causing yourself to be satiated, right? So you're it's essentially doing what intermittent fasting is doing, but it's also doing other things. It's slowing gastric emptying, right? So you're basically the food's sitting around in your intestines longer which >> it sits there longer. >> Yes. >> It's not it's not it doesn't accelerate the immune system. >> So the the GLP-1 receptor agonistic so you know semiglutide they're slowing what's called gastric emptying. So the food takes a long it stays in your your intestines longer which is part of why you're satiated. There's a lot of of course side effects, but intermittent fasting basically you can also lose weight and also reset your hormones. You can lose visceral fat. You can when I say reset your hormones, I mean so that you're satiated after a meal so that you're not feeling hungry immediately after you ate because the visceral fat does start to lose. That's the first thing that's lost. In fact, many studies have shown that if you calorie restrict, that's the first thing that goes. And it really does help reset the reset the system. Um, when people first start an intermittent fasting protocol, if they've never done it, it can be it can be challenging because they're not what's called metabolically flexible. So, that means that essentially your body is really capable of using fatty acids as energy to make ketone bodies. This is this is something that's a very sort of clean source of energy that's used. It's great for the brain. Um, but if you're if you're never if you've never really fasted, if you're constantly grazing or eating and you don't exercise, because exercise also can make you metabolically flexible, then your body isn't used to it and it's a little bit of an activation energy. You have to kind of push past it. It's a little bit more challenging, but your body adapts. And so after a couple of weeks, guess what? Like if you're if you're intermittent fasting, and there's a lot of ways to do that. So, you know, let's say you skip a meal, then you're not you're not like I haven't eaten anything today, you know, yet. And I usually eat my first meal around noon. >> Do you do this every day, seven days a week, even Sundays? >> I I do mostly every day a week. Yeah. >> And but it's it's I'm not hungry until noon because your body adapts. and ketone bodies, which are what are made when you when you're basically metabolizing fatty acids for fuel rather than glucose, is those ketone ketones like beta hydroxybutyrate. They're they're they they're satiating like you're you're satiated. >> And so, um it takes a person we we can store glucose in our liver as glycogen >> and you have to be fasted for anywhere between 12 to 36 hours for your liver to deplete all their glycogen levels. And that all depends on >> 12 to 36. >> It all depends on your diet. If you're eating a lot of carbs, refined carbs, it's going to be more like 36 hours. If you're eating more of a whole foods type of diets like protein, lean meats, you know, poultry, fish, vegetables, that's glycogen is going to be depleted after like 12 hours. And then, you know, anything above beyond that, you're going to be in what's called like ketosis. So, for me, I usually stop eating dinner 6 PM usually. sometimes, you know, social obligations push that a little bit later and I don't eat my first meal to until around noon. So, for me, I'm fasting for about, you know, 18 hours, right? Um, now there's the there's the 168 where you basically stop eating your meal around 8:00 p.m. and don't eat your first meal until >> or or no, I mean, if you 8:00 p.m. or you could start if you stop at 6 p.m. then it depends, right? So, like whatever works for you. Some people like they have to wake up in the morning and eat breakfast. Like I said, there is an adjustment period. For me, it works really well. Other people like to do, you know, they're gonna they're gonna skip lunch or something. And that that's a way of reducing your calorie intake. And at the end of the day, calorie intake is what causes weight loss. And that is something again that you you can you're not going to lose the weight as rapid as you would on a GLP1 because it really causes you to not get >> so why would she 72 years old access to all the money in the world you know one of the most famous people in the world she she can call any doctor she wants who convinced her that she was right about the statement that she made she knows millions of people are going to see it. >> Yeah. Well, I think for one, it's easier to take a pill to help you lose weight. And that's something that people like her know what how am I going to affect the masses, you know, because not everyone's going to do intermittent fasting, right? Exercise, you can exercise your way out of obesity. You have to change your diet because imagine how much do you know how hard it is to burn, you know, 1500 calories by exercise, right? It's incredibly hard. You exercise because of the anti-aging effects. Like there's a lot of different things happening with exercise that are good for the heart and the brain. But to lose weight, you have to stop eating. You have to you have to reduce your calorie intake. And that does require effort. And so I think that it's easier to say, "Oh, it's not my fault. There's these genes." And yeah, genes can make it where it is harder for the a person who has certain variations in the gene to lose as much weight as someone who doesn't. >> But that doesn't make it impossible. It just means you have to put in more effort and you know doing intermittent fasting or or counting calories does require effort on your part whereas taking a pill does not the pill does it for you right and so you know it it all comes down to risk versus benefit right like if you have someone who's obese obese obesity itself accelerates the aging process it increases the risk of 13 different types of cancer type two diabetes cardiovascular disease if you are obese you are on a bad trajectory and anything that's going to help you lose that weight is going to be beneficial for both >> including GLP including GLP1 really. Yes. So you're more for So if I'm 320 lbs, 5'8, okay? And if I exercise and keep a decent diet, it'll take me a while to get to 180 where I need to be, let's just say, right? But if I get on GLP1 and if I can get there faster in 3 months and six months, whatever the timeline may be, you're supportive for me doing GLP1 that way. >> No, no, no. Absolutely not. That's not what I'm saying at all. I think it's better if you can do it yourself. I think that you're gonna avoid any adverse side effects when you lose a lot of weight really rapidly. You can increase the risk of gallbladder stones. Um GLP-1 receptor agonists are associated with in theoretically an increased risk of thyroid cancer. All that's pre-clinical data though. So there's not really human studies showing that. But it's still a thing to think about, right? If it's causing it in animals, like we just may not have that, you know, longitud longitudical data yet. I don't know. Um there are there are pancreatitis risk. I mean there are risks associated with it, right? With losing weight too much weight loss too fast. Now, if you can, if you're someone that's willing to calorie restrict either through intermittent fasting, which is a great tool, or by counting calories, and you know, at that point, you know, people on average can lose if you're doing a really strict calorie restriction, like 800, you know, or fewer calories per day. People lose on average between like two to five pounds um per per is it per week. So, you know, you really could get >> 800. Yeah. >> Two to five a week. So if I'm 320 800, if I'm 320, what do you think my intake is? >> It depends. It I mean probably I mean you just you have to cut out a lot of calories, right? So >> that's why people turn to these these >> said. Yeah. So the so so the the the control the discipline to control and say I'm not going to eat it versus you know what just give it to me. I'm going to take the shot and I'm going to go the faster way uh instead of doing it the oldfashioned exercise way, the good diet way. Yeah. I I I don't know. By the way, you also speak a lot about creatine. I remember back in the days when I was 14 years old, 15 years old, we're all bodybuilding, lifting weights, and EAS came up with, you know, creatine. Everybody was using creatine back in the days. And then it kind of went away for 15 years. It looks like creatine is making a comeback. Tell me why you're so procreat. >> Well, I started taking creatine. I got really serious about resistance training a couple of years ago after having a lot of experts on my podcast. That really was >> compelling to me that muscle mass is very important to maintain as you age, right? And being being someone that was so cardio focused, it was like, okay, I got to start really focusing also on resistance training. >> And so creatine came. >> Were you an athlete back in the day? Like did you compete? >> I I did. I was like interesting athlete. So So I was a competitive jump roper and ice skater. I know. Not like the most common thing. >> Jump roper. >> Yeah. I was I I started a jump rope team with my best friend when I was in second grade. And um Did >> you say second grade? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh San Diego Sands Skippers was the was the name of the jump rope team. And it was part of the international rope skipping organization at the time. They have a different name now, but essentially we there's teams that were all around not only just the US, but it was global. It still is. And we would jump rope and we would compete. So we would go and compete every year. There was a camp in Boulder, Colorado. Everyone would come from around the world and we would compete. >> Wow. >> Yeah. And >> and listen, it's hard exercise. It's shoulders, it's arms, it's forearms. >> It's a full body exercise >> and weight bearing. So you're getting the bone density benefits, which thank goodness. But so I was a competitive jump roper from the age of about 8 to 16 and and and that was that was a big part of my life. and not only just a competitive jump roper but also like I would uh very leadership role because I would travel around and start teams at different schools. So I was going to schools doing demonstrations with my team and then starting teams for them and so you [clears throat] get this very leadership role you get to confidence building early on. So it was really great experience >> in San Diego in California. >> Yeah. Yeah. the team was anyways that was a complete I wasn't taking creatine then [laughter] but um fast forward you know a couple of years ago I was you know probably about 45 44 when I really started getting serious about resistance training and creatine came into that equation for me and why is that well when you when you take supplemental creatine in the form of creatine monohydrate it's the most wellstied form >> creatine then in the body it gets converted into creatine phosphate and it's basically stored stored that way in in your muscles for example and it's the major source of energy. So you need creatine phosphate. The phosphate is used to make energy. And so what happens is that when you take in creatine and you're doing training like anything that's resistance training, any kind of explosive training, any type of high interval, you know, high intensity interval training, even aerobic exercise, the creatine allows you to make energy faster. And so it basically affects your training volume. You're able to do one to two more reps per set because you're recovering faster. you're making energy faster and so it plays a role in that, you know, exercise volume. And that's why if you if you look at many many different studies of people doing, you know, resistance training versus resistance training with creatine, they'll gain more muscle mass. They or lean body mass, including muscle, they'll gain strength benefits if they're also adding creatine. Not because creatine itself is anabolic. It's not. It's because it's able to you're able to do more work, right? So, it's allowing you to do more work. Therefore, you're getting the muscle adaptations, right? So, I became very interested in creatine because of that. And it was very it was very clear to me after looking at the scientific literature, after talking to experts like Dr. um Karen Dan Kandow, um he's out of the University of Virginia. He does a lot of creatine research that if you do five grams a day, that's about what it takes to saturate your muscle tissue. Takes about three weeks to get there where five grams, okay, muscles are ready. And and so that was that was what I was doing initially and then I started really getting deeper into the creatine research and I was like wow from the neck up is where it's really interesting the effects on the brain. So >> creatine. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> So we make creatine. We can make it from our liver >> steak and >> well yeah so we make it we can make it without any steak without any meat. Our liver can make it one to three grams and our brain can make it again and then we can have a dietary source of it. As you mentioned the major dietary source is meat. Muscle. Meat being of course the highest because it's stored in muscle right. Poultry fish also has higher amounts of creatine. So, as you can imagine, vegetarians and vegans really in trouble if they're not supplementing because they're only relying what their body can produce. With that said, you know, studies started coming out looking at the effects of creatine on the brain. And it's really to me very exciting. This area, this area of research is new. I think it's it's the new new part of um creatine research that's kind of exploding now. A lot of creatine researchers were previously only looking at muscle. Now, they're also looking at the brain. So, the brain, as I mentioned, also makes its own creatine, but obviously the the brain's using a lot of energy as well. And so, creatine being, you know, stored as creatine phosphate is a great source of energy. >> The problem is if you're only taking in five grams a day, your muscles are consuming all of it. It's saturating them. And so research out of Germany has shown that if you take 10 grams a day, you can actually increase the creatine levels in certain brain regions by twofold. Okay, that was the first study that to me that was convincing. >> Interesting. >> 10 grams a day, right? Because you have to go above that five to get spillover to the brain. Okay, again, these are preliminary studies. A lot more to do. But I'm just telling you, you know why I now >> you're going to get everybody using creatine now. >> And now I take this is why I take 10 grams a day. >> You take 10 a day. So, so creatine, let me just let me just tell you. So, creatine for the brain, now the question is, well, if it's getting into the brain, what is it doing there? Right? And so, there are studies showing that really creatine in the brain shines under a stressful condition. Okay? So, that could be psychological stress, that could be sleep deprivation, that could be brain aging, neurodeenerative disease, Alzheimer's disease, anything that's stressing the brain, that's where creatine shines because stress is an energy consumer. It is taking energy away from normal brain function. And so when you give yourself more energy, you know, in this for in the form of creatine, you're now allowing that energy to go to cognition, right? So there are studies showing for example sleep deprivation being the classic way to stress your brain that if you take someone who's healthy and you sleep deprive them for 21 hours but you give them 20 to 25 grams of creatine their cognitive function is not only not compromised like it would be if you didn't sleep for 21 hours and then did a battery of brain test, right? It was better than their baseline cognitive function. So it improved their cognitive function even more than their baseline which was before they were sleep deprived. There's also studies showing that Alzheimer's disease, people with, you know, mild cognitive decline, early Alzheimer's disease, if they're given 10 or 20 grams of creatine, it can improve cognitive function as well. So >> do you drink it just with water? Do you mix it with grape juice? Well, you know, I don't know if you've seen the studies, it's better if it's with grape juice. What do you What do you mix it with? >> I'm not a big fan of juice because it's really high in sugar without the fiber matrix. So, fiber matrix, like if it was a fruit, slows the glucose response. Juice, no bueno. I would say don't mix it with juice. Um, I actually put my creatine in, first of all, I do 10 grams a day and I usually split it up between five grams and five grams. And I usually do the first one in like my cup of coffee. Don't be worried about coffee negating the effects. I talked to the expert, Dr., you know, Darren Cando. Unless you're consuming massive massive amounts of caffeine, like if you were doing like caffeine pills or something, then maybe I would be worried. But not with a normal like >> So you mix it with coffee. >> I mix it with coffee and night or >> I do it all in the morning. >> You know, that's when I want my brain to function optimally. >> So today, for example, I came from the west coast and now on the east coast. So I am completely in a different time zone, three hours behind. I had to wake up three hours earlier than normal. My brain wasn't working as as you was sleep deprivation. So, I actually took 20 grams this morning. And I do that when I travel, when I'm sleepd deprived. I up my usual 10 grams to 20 grams a day because I have noticed it's not like a stimulant like caffeine, but I am better cognitively if I have that 20 grams after being sleepd deprived. And you know, again, maybe it's placebo because I know about the studies, but you know what? Placebo works, so I don't care. And there's not a real downside. So >> that's funny. That's that's that's where I'm at with creatine. I get my mom to take it. I think, you know, aging itself is a stress on the brain. And like I said, it's the same thing as as training. Creatine, if you're if you're not training, isn't going to make you gain muscle mass or strength. Okay? >> It carries water weight. Sometimes if you're it can sometimes u u cause you to carry water weight. Like I said, creatin was something that EAS brought to the market in 1992. You know, Bill Phillips, I don't know if you're familiar with this guy named Bill Phillips or not. Have you you ever heard of Muscle Media 2000? This guy had like the number one magazine in bodybuilding that every bodybuilder would read because they had Muscle magazine, they had Flex, which was all the pictures and you would see the people. Muscle media was the science. So, anybody that wanted the science of bodybuilding, this was the guy. Uh he wrote a book called Body for Life. Yeah, that guy right there. He was one of the first guys that openly came out and talked about, you know, I do steroids, this is what I use. Anda he went through the whole thing and creatin monohydrate was introduced and then they brought out vanadol sulfate uh and then he brought out HMBB. HMBB was massive in the early 90s uh mid 90s but it's interesting to see creatin making a comeback. Uh makes me want to think about getting back on creatin. I haven't been on creatin for 20 plus years. >> Oh really? Do you do you exercise? Do you >> I do. Yes I do. 20 plus years. >> Oh you should be doing 10 grams a day. >> Yeah. Well, I try it out and let me know because for one, the training your training volume and recovery, >> you should notice an effect there where it's like you'll like I said, one to two more reps per set. Recovery is easier, but I'm really interested in the brain >> because the brain on what it does. >> I'll tell you for me and again, I am totally like could be placebo. If I don't get my 10 grams in the day, I will have an afternoon slump. >> If I get my 10 grams, I am good. I am good. See, this is what makes you likable. You said even if it's placebo >> because your space, the health space is filled with a lot of overly confident people that speak in this is it guaranteed. You know this and it and it makes the audience. But what makes you attractive is you'll say test it for yourself. See what happens. We'll see. Let's look at the both research. When we set out to create a shoe that [music] blends comfort, function, and luxury, we had the choice [music] to make it fast. We had the choice to make it cheap. We chose neither. Instead, we chose Tuscano. We chose [music] true Italian craftsmanship. Each pair touched by 50 skilled hands. We chose patience, spending two years perfecting every detail. And we chose the finest [music] quality at every step. Introducing the future looks [music] bright collection. Not rushed, not disposable, not ordinary, rather intentional, luxurious, timeless. Uh, by the way, do you follow doctor? Is it Dr. Patrick Suniang? Do you follow him? >> No. >> Okay. So, Dr. Patrick Sununiang, uh, he bought the LA Times like I don't know how many years ago. many many years ago. Uh that's him right there. 8 billion auto guy. He came out and he's been talking a lot about Okay, I'm sorry. I was off by four billion. 12 billion auto guy. Very successful. South Africa first 24 years never once watched TV. He was all about reading and learning. And he's been critical about chemotherapy. He doesn't say it's not good to never use it. He says there's places for it but he calls it it's like a nuclear bomb when you do chemotherapy in your body right and sometimes it also kills off the good things that you need that are fighting you know so what is your position with chemotherapy cancer and the progress we're making with cancer >> so I by the way I did my PhD at St. Children's Research Hospital which is the leading research center for pediatric cancer and you know they've done phenomenal work in in lowering you know the the death rate of pediatric cancers which are predominantly leukemas lymphas glyopblastomas >> and I I would tend to agree depending on the cancer type you know different chemotherapies are more effective now and I would say for leukemas lymphas things that are blood cancers That's where it's effective because it's easy for the chemotherapy to reach those cells, right? In the blood, it's easy for it to reach the cells. When you're talking about a solid tumor in the liver, in the pancreas, you know, in the breast, it's it's it's a different story because tumor cells become hypoxic. So, they cut off the circulation to get to them. And so chemotherapy you have to it has to be delivered through the blood and circulation to get to the tumor site. Right? And so that is probably what uh Dr. >> Sunny >> is referring to to some degree. It is a blunt you know tool in terms of cancer treatment. Um but it was it's been very effective for example with pediatric cancers and leukemias and lymphas in terms of if you know what we can do to lower our cancer risk and also improve effectiveness of cancer treatment. There's I think a lot of evidence out there showing exercise really the key I mean exercise for example and not just any type of exercise but more of that vigorous intensity exercise. In fact, there was a recent study in Nature Communications that came out and this study was a very, we're talking like over a 100,000 I think it was close to 200,000 participants that were wearing what are called accelerometers. So, these little devices on their wrist. They're not measuring heart rate, but they're measuring like how fast you're moving. It's an accelerometer, right? And so, it's empirical data where you can actually measure people's physical activity based on their movement. And then you can and then you can look at outcomes. for example, >> almost like a Fitbit but except uh it measures >> movement >> electromechanical sensor that measures proper acceleration the range of change in velo velocity. >> That's right. So for example, you're working out, you're running, you're you're moving your arms, it's measuring the movement. So the faster the movement is is sort of considered to be more moderate to vigorous intensity exercise depending on how fast the movement is. >> So if I'm walking versus running versus sprinting, >> right? So if you're very very light walking like walking around the house that would be considered light exercise. If you are I would say fast walking that would be more moderate intensity exercise. If you're jogging that would be vigorous intensity in this study that I'm referring to. Okay. The key here is that we have empirical data that was calculating and I am going to bring this back to cancer I promise that was calculating how you know the types of intensity of exercise vigorous versus moderate versus light and outcomes so all-c cause mortality cancer related mortality cardiovascular related mortality type 2 diabetes and what was found was completely astounding okay >> very much different than what the normal current exercise guidelines are so for example you may have heard well the guidelines say that we should do 150 minutes to 300 minutes of moderate intensity exercise per week to be quote unquote healthy or 75 minutes to 150 minutes of vigorous type of exercise to be healthy. Right? So you basically cut it in half one to two ratio. [snorts] By the way, that was all based on caloric expenditure, right? Okay, we're not talking about losing fat fat. We're talking about wanting to prevent cancer, cardiovascular disease, dying from all causes, including respiratory causes, right, of illness. So that number is out the window. This new data shows that if you're doing vigorous int intensity exercise, the type of like jogging for example, swimming, tennis, like that's all vigorous intensity, that for every one minute you do of that, if you're wanting to lower all cause mortality, you have to do four minutes of moderate intensity or an hour and a half of light. So talk about efficienc. So for every one minute of vigorous intensity is four minutes of moderate intensity. You have to do four minutes to get all cause mortality. Light is an hour and a half. Stop it. >> That's for all cause mortality. Dying from all non-acal causes, >> it gets better. If you're wanting to prevent cardiovascular disease, cardiovascular related mortality, for every one minute of vigorous, okay, this is cycling, this is jogging, swimming, >> you have to do eight minutes of moderate intensity. Okay, moderate. So that would be like, you know, speed like walking with more intent, right? So you're more uh speed walking. So So 8 minutes of that or again you're getting into like the hour to two hour range of light of light exercise. So that would be just walking around the house basically. For cancer, if you wanted to prevent basically cancer mortality, for every one minute of vigorous intensity exercise, you had to do almost four minutes. So three and a half to four minutes of moderate intensity or two and a half hours of light walking. Okay. And so the point here being is we have a lot of control over our disease risk including cancer. Exercise is the key and not just any type of exercise. You have to get your heart rate up. You have to move right faster. You have to have this you know more intent type of exercise. And this kind of goes, I would say along those lines. We have what are called the Vilpa studies, the vigorous intermittent lifestyle physical activity studies. And these are studies also with accelerometers where people are doing vigorous intensity exercise, but they're not it's not a structured type of exercise. So they're not just getting up and doing one minute of body weight squats or, you know, a minute of high knees or jumping jacks. All these things I did this morning, by the way. Um, >> what time >> they're doing? They're they're they're >> What time did you start this morning? >> Um after right after I woke up >> here. >> No. Yeah. Here in Fort Lauderdale. Yeah. So >> So basically um they're they're doing, you know, they're sprinting up the stairs to get to work. They don't take elevators, you know, they're doing that sort of everyday situation, right? >> Individuals that do, let's say they do three minutes of that just brief burst of getting their heart rate up, moving, you know, walking really like fast or, you know, sprinting up the stairs. and they do that three times a day. Okay, so that's a total of 9 minutes of vigorous exercise a day. That's associated with a 40% lower all cause mortality and a 40% lower cancer related mortality compared to not doing it and a 50% lower cardiovascular related mortality. Okay, this is phenomenal because it really shows that you don't have to go to the gym and spend an hour at the, you know, at the very least if you're, you can accumulate these short bursts of exercise, they have to be at least a minute long to have an effect. Um, three minutes if you're really going for that robust effect. If you're only doing 3 to four minutes a day, it's still associated with a 30% lower cancer related mortality. Again, to bring it back to the cancer, you know, there are things that you can do to lower your cancer mortality risk and to lower your cancer incidence as well. diet, obesity, obesity accelerates 13 different types of cancer. So, weight loss is also something that's critical and really does lower your cancer risk. Okay? But let's say there's this scenario where you get cancer and you there's there is a genetic component. Let's say you just, you know, the genetic jackpot, you unfortunately you got it right, you have cancer. >> There are now studies and I had I had um a researcher on my podcast. It's it's a new field. It's called exercise oncology. So Dr. Carrie Kernier, he's also um from from Canada. He's one of the leader leaders in this field of exercise oncology. And what he does is he does studies with individuals that already have cancer, a lot of prostate cancer. He looks at also colon cancer and breast cancer. And these individuals that are undergoing you perhaps a ca a classical type of standard of care treatment like chemo or radiation or the combination of the two. But he adds on exercise to those to the to that therapy. And those individuals h it's dramatic how much they respond to the cancer treatment much much better where they're killing the cancer cells. The tumor is shrinking. They're dramatically improving their cancer survival. So their mortality goes down and their recurrence goes down. So every possible metric is improving if you're adding the exercise onto a classical cancer, you know, treatment therapy. So again, I think exercise is that toggle and it's so so important and I know I talked about a lot of things and there's a lot to unpack. I mean it's interesting again for you it it goes back to a a process of something I can't control right in a society of living in short term um you know when you're talking about obesity all the obesity stuff that we talked about earlier with GLP-1 I can take GLP1 and be at a body weight that I'm okay with right let's just say I'm 5'6 135 and I'm a female 45 years old but if I don't exercise that doesn't prevent me from the risks I have of I still have to exercise to prevent this from happening. 40% lower cancer, 50% lower cardio if I'm doing three minutes, three intervals of three minutes of hit throughout the day. That's insane to look at how simple that is because we have that time. We can do that. >> Totally. You have you have that time. And here and the reverse is also true, Patrick. So for example, a really good biioarker of whether or not you do cardiovascular exercise is something called cardiorespiratory fitness. It's often measured as V2 max. Have you heard of this? >> Of course. >> It's maximal oxygen uptake during maximal exercise. Okay. All you have to know is that cardiorespiratory fitness is a biioarker of your health and longevity. So for example there have been studies showing that people with a high cardiorespiratory fitness are 80% less likely to die from all cause you know early all whatever that is fill in the blank cancer cardiovascular disease respiratory disease right than someone with a low cardiorespiratory fitness. But what's even more compelling than that well that's not surprising we just talked about that if you're physically active you're you're going to be healthier. You're going to you're going to lower your risk of you know dying early from any of those diseases. What's interesting is that people that have a low cardiorespiratory fitness that predicted their early mortality the same or even like more than smoking than type two diabetes than cardiovascular disease. So in other words having a low cardiorespiratory fitness was like having those diseases in terms of early mortality risk showing you and this goes back to what I said earlier being sedentary is a disease and we need to start thinking about it as a disease. It's a disease. You need to be physically active and to avoid that disease. You you have to get up and move. And it doesn't have to be an hour in the gym. It can be these short brief bursts of what are called exercise snacks. Now, this is the more, you know, I would say structured type like I did this morning. You get up and you do, you know, three minutes of body weight squats. You do three minutes of jumping jacks. You do high knees. Something that gets your heart rate up. Something that makes it where after you're done, you're breathless. You know, I was you're sweating. you get sweat on your brow, like that stuff you can do and make it part of your personal hygiene. >> Do you still jump rope? >> I do. I It's part of my routine. So, I don't do it every day. I do I So, I do a lot of what's called CrossFit types of exercising. So, I do >> Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. I do an hourlong sort of CrossFit type of workout. What includes oftentimes jumping rope. It includes a lot of explosive types of >> buy yourself a wood for >> I have a I have a trainer that comes to my house twice a week and that the other two times I do it at my friend's house with my friends and so you know it it all whatever works for you you know if you don't have access to it trainers help because there's accountability and they're really like helping you just kind of >> get that structure and that routine but I think you know in addition to the reason I work out is actually for my brain to be honest like I know all these other benefits that's like the the positive side effects effects, you know, in terms of like lowering cardiovascular disease, type two diabetes, a cancer, all that is I do it for my brain. Like I absolutely need to work out to function and to feel happy. So, you know, and this kind of goes down this I don't want to go down this whole like rabbit hole of happiness, but that is a component of longevity. And some people, if you're like me and you're more prone to anxiety, you're more prone to obsessing over things that can that can >> What is your birthday? >> What month? >> June. >> June what? >> 26. >> So, Cancer >> June 26th. We're We got married on June 26. Our youngest daughter is born June 26th. And one of our good friends is born on June 26th, their daughter. So, June 26 for us is a big day. >> Oh, that's hilarious. >> So, anxiety. So you're saying prone to anxiety? Why? Because you're competitive. Prone to anxiety because of your own personal standards and expectation of yourself. Why prone to anxiety? >> I think all of the above. Yeah, I'm definitely very competitive. I also, you know, it's you think about a lot of things a little bit like you kind of obsess about a lot of things in details and you kind of go down that rabbit hole. And when you start to like go too deeply about too many things, it can make you start to see things and then worry about them, you know. Are you more the engineer brain or the conspiracy brain? You were talking. You're more the engineer brain. Logic, systematic, stepbystep, why do we do it this way? >> Definitely. >> Got it. So predictable. >> Are you like datadriven type of decisions being made? >> Yes. That's why evidence based. >> Let's talk about the anxiety and panic and and all of that, right? For people who are in high intense environments like you're debating, you know, you hit the stage like I remember the the debate stage first time Trump went on. And I'm like, I wonder how he's going to be the first time he gets on with Hillary. And if you pay attention the first seven minutes, you can hear him breathing. Even Trump, he's breathing hard. It's like, wow, he's breathing hard. And you watch some of these guys get on debate stage, they get fully nervous, and the arguments going back and forth. Or you're doing a show, cameras are all on you, they're an audience, live audience, you're speaking. How do you manage your imagination from not going wild so you can stay sa stable? There's a lot of there's a lot of different I would say little hacks that can be done that I use and I can tell you about them and why I do them in terms of the evidence. >> I'm curious. >> So, first and foremost would be the exercise and that's why I I did 10 minutes of vigorous intensity exercise before I came here. >> For one, it's been showed to improve cognition, which I want you. You're going to want that in a debate. You're going to want that in any type of public speaking sort of engagement, right? You're going to want to be cognitively sharp. And study after study have shown that just 10 minutes of that especially the vigorous intensity exercise does improve reaction time by you know a few milliseconds which translate to about 14% improved cognition right and that's that's a big change so so that is one reason the other thing is with the anxiety and you know the the basically like filtering out a lot of the the sensory information that can help you focus more that's also been shown to be improved after again just even 10 minutes of vigorous intensity exercise. The other thing is that what happens is, you know, public speaking, whether it's debate, which is another level. It's challenging, right? It is challenging. It's taxing. Exercise, if you engage in exercise, it's also hard. And that's why the hardness comes into play. You're doing something really hard at the start of your day, it takes mental effort to do something hard. It's not just working your muscles. It's also working your brain. Your brain is working hard. And what I have noticed from my own experience is that when I do hard exercise, whether that's highintensity exercise or for me just resistance training, weightlifting, that is hard for me. Everything else is easier. Everything else is easier. And so it makes it easier to handle other types of stress mentally. >> Okay. So one is exercise. >> What's that? >> One is exercise. >> One is and not just any. It's it's more of the hard hard type. Yeah. two, and this is this is why I'm fasted right now, is the ketones that are produced during ketosis. So again, you have to be fasted for anywhere between 12 or more hours to start to really use fatty acids as energy. And that energy, you're you're making ketones, and the ketones is actually what's used as energy. Well, the ketones are not just a clean energy source. They're also a signaling molecule. It's a mode of communication between your body and other parts of the body like the brain. So it's basically your body's way of telling your brain, hey this is a stressful situation. I don't have any food. By the way, humans throughout, you know, like however, you know, many thousands or millions, whatever you believe, however old the earth is, you know, we were always, you know, we we were subject to periods of no food, right? We didn't always just have Instacart and Postmates and things that were easily available to just get food. So our it's an adaptation that's in our genes. And what happens is these ketones that are produced signal to the brain it's a stressful time. You know I need to for one make more brain drive neurotrphic factor. You know this is a neurotrophic factor that's involved in learning in memory in producing more neurons but also in what's called neuroplasticity. the ability of your brain to change and adapt to a a you know a changing environment. Very very important. It also is anxolytic. Ketones are anxolytic, meaning they help lower anxiety. They help increased increase something called GABA. That's an inhibitory neurotransmitter. So for me, what the ketones do is they they sort of calm the extra noise in the back of my brain and help me just focus on what the task is. And that's really important for that situation you're talking about, like a debate, is you want to be able to like calm down the the the extra noise in the back where you're thinking about all the little things that can be distracting and so you're not like on your game. Um, for that reason, I also take exogenous ketones. Now, exogenous ketones are something that you can ingest, get those ketones in your bloodstream to have similar effects, but not have to be fasting to get them. And that is something else I do use. BHBs. >> Yes. Okay. >> And I something that I use before like I had some this morning before I came here. I do that usually in situations where I'm on a podcast, I'm doing a presentation, anything public speaking where, like you said, the anxiety does go up and even if you've done it a lot, I mean, it's still part of human nature, right? I mean, the the the stress response happens. And so, um, that's something else I do. By the way, I want to tell you that taking exogenous ketones, if you are fasting, it's it's going to stop you from actually using more fat and and and and basically losing losing that fat because exogenous ketones are a signal to your to your liver that there's enough energy there. You flood your system with this, you know, BHB, this beta hydroxybutyrate. And so if you're wanting to lose weight, if you're fasting to lose weight, the exogenous ketones are not going to help you, but they will help you be more cognitively aware. Um, so that's another thing to do. I would say another little protocol or hack that I use to lower my anxiety in high stress situations. Another one would be cold exposure. Um, so deliberate cold exposure is also something that for one, it's hard. Like no one wants to go sit in a 49 degree Fahrenheit cold water bath for two minutes. I mean it's very hard. It's uncomfortable. So you're getting that you're getting that same effect that you get from doing hard exercise where you're getting the hard thing done. That way everything else is easier. But the other thing that it does is it increases norepinephrine and to some degree dopamine, but particularly norepinephrine. That is both a hormone and a neurotransmitter that helps with focus and attention. It helps kind of lower some of that background anxiety. And so that's another thing that people can use. And I I used to um do a lot of cold showers before I would go like on a podcast or something. I haven't been doing that lately. Now I go to the beta hydroxybutyrate because it really kind of checks the box for me. But >> you do the cold plunger now. >> I do have a cold plunge at home and I am embarrassed to say that I very rarely use it. It's I'm a summertime cold plunger. I would say more seasonal than for example my husband who really likes doing the cold plunge every day. >> Is he What does he do? He he likes to do it interestingly at night >> and >> before he goes to sleep >> before he goes to sleep because it cools his body down which is funny because >> sauna or deliberate heat exposure has been has all is something that I use to improve my sleep and >> you know I've talked about this I did a little short video on it there there are there are mechanisms there that explain why heat exposure would help improve sleep and deep sleep that kind of restorative sleep that you want >> because when you're exposing yourself to heat, you're making somnogenic cytoines. These are, you know, when you get sick, you're tired, right? You're tired. Um, part of that is one because the activation of the immune system sucking all your energy away. You don't want that. Two is because activation of the immune system, they're they're releasing cytoines that are called somnogenic. They induce sleepiness. And so the sauna can also do that where your or sauna or I would say hot bath deliberate heat exposure whatever modality you're choosing to use also can increase >> extreme heat or extreme cold >> but extreme I wouldn't go up to the 200 degree Fahrenheit what I'm talking more like 180 degrees Fahrenheit heat but yes exactly so um although some people feel like the cold does it wakes them up you know and so my husband I don't know if he's an outlier but he likes to cool his body or you go to sleep. >> Not like right before. I mean, we're talking like a couple of hours. Your >> body then it'll settle down and you're Okay. >> Yes. And the same goes with the sauna. You want to do it a couple of hours before your bedtime because you want to cool down first. And so what I like to do is I'll do a hot tub or a sauna a couple hours before bed and then I hit the cold shower to cool myself down. And that's something that >> sauna, cold shower. >> That's interesting. Yes. >> Okay. All right. So, we got anxiety, we got exercise, uh proper fasting, ketones, right? BHP, ketones, cold exposure. Now, what if um what if I'm an athlete? What if I play highlevel sports? I already exercise. I got good diet, but you know, I know if I'm a quarterback, I want to be able to make that pass. I want to find a way to lower my anxiety as an athlete. How do I do it? Well, I think for example the the um beta hydroxybutyrate might come into play there and also again the cold exposure. So for for athletes that are like highle elite there's studies showing that cold exposure even done before for example like tennis players or um kayak's another one if they do cold exposure before like a race it actually improves performance as well and that probably because it's lowering inflammation. There's an acute response of lowering inflammation. inflammation can also play a role in cognitive function, anxiety, in focus and attention, you know, all these things. But I I would say the the beta hydroxybutyrate is sort of the the health hack that I would go to because again, it's being used as a really clean source of energy. You also want to be able to make fast decisions, right? Whether you're a football player or a tennis player, whatever, you want your brain to be able to make those decisions quickly. That's something that's going to happen. And then lowering the anxiety as well. So, I think all those sort of point to why, you know, taking an exogenous ketone may help. >> I'm going to ask you a question. I'm curious what you'll say about this. You You're married and you have kids? >> Yes. >> How many kids do you guys have? >> I have one. >> Okay. So, what is healthier? Being married with kids, married, no kids, or staying single? >> I would say, >> is there any ties to health? >> Absolutely. being married with kids. I think that's un like unanimously like clear >> because happiness is really linked to longevity and health and happiness a very very big component as Dr. Arthur Brooks, who does research out of Harvard, I recently had on my podcast. >> Arthur Cabbrooks, >> author. He's amazing. >> He's phenomenal. >> He's amazing. >> He's phenomenal. >> Yeah. I mean, >> glasses. He wears glasses. >> He's He's amazing. Yeah. >> But his, you know, he he's done research. He's written two New York time bestselling books and he's got a third one on the way coming in March. He's amazing. What he calls the macronutrients of happiness. One of that is enjoyment, right? An enjoyment is something that you get by experiencing something with another person. It's not something that you're doing alone. It's experiences with people that you love, right? And if you're not married and you have no kids, I mean, you really have to really put in a lot of effort to try to have those that enjoyment, right? Um married with kids, you've got your spouse, you've got your kids. I mean, anyone that's a parent knows the love you feel for them is unmeasurable. I mean, it's just and the joy you get from being their parents. Sure, there's like hard times, but the joy is also I mean, it's you can't describe it. You can't measure it. It's amazing. And there's also studies showing that, right? That you know, married married couples and and having children is associated with a longer life. Like the the having that family tie, having those relationships are so important. Now, I'm not just saying I'm not saying all those single people out there. I know it's like a thing now. There's like younger people that are like, "Oh, I'm never going to get married. I'm not going to have >> no kids. I'm going to live for me. I don't want to ruin my body and you know I don't want to lose my time, my freedom and all this stuff. You hear a lot of that. And by the way, US is at the lowest birth rate in the history of America. I think we're at 1.58 right now. And you know this, the replacement rate needs to be at 2.1. We're at 1.58. So it is a trend that people go in that direction. >> It is. It is. And you know I waited till later in life to have my my son and that's you know because I was pursuing purs pursuing academic you know pursuits and my academic career um and it is something that I mean I don't regret I have like an amazing son I love him more than life itself but and it gives me a sense of purpose right but I will say I wish id started earlier and had more more children and all I can say to to people out there that are in that mentality is that as you get older things change and it's harder to have relationships if you don't if you don't establish them early. And a spouse and the love that you have for your your spouse is so incredible. And then when you bring a child into this world, sure there's layers of complexity. Sure, there's going to be times, you know, that are more challenging. And you and and it takes work. Every relationship takes work. But it's it's really these relationships are really important for mental health, long-term health, disease risk. I mean there's all this the Harvard you know longitudinal aging study showed that you know these individuals with with relationships spouses children you know family friends like those individuals not only were happier they lived longer you know very it's very important loneliness is a thing you know as you get older I mean if you're someone that's single never married don't know kids and then you retire and you haven't really put a lot of effort into maintaining friendships comes harder and harder and you really do have to put effort in loneliness is independently associated with early mortality and it's just not fun. And people that are lonely then oftentimes will seek out that kind of pleasure and reward by themselves and they'll turn to like alcohol or they'll turn to gambling or things like that where it's like this short-term, you know, pleasure you get, but it's really not. It's trying to fill the void of that enjoyment that you get from the relationships that are meaningful in your life. >> I saw a clip the other day, Rob, can you ask Alysia and Hberto about the clip of uh two women were debating? I said, "Where's this interview from?" if they can find that clip and send it to you. One lady is like, "Who wants to have a kid and be an underpaid Uber driver for your son that wants to go to taekwondo, a sport that he hates?" And the other lady just flat out, I mean, if you got this clip, I'll give you a second for you to find it. It's a fascinating clip, but it is becoming common of people not wanting to have kids, not wanting to have families. Um, did you did you find it >> is becoming [music] an unpaid Uber driver for someone who doesn't want to go to karate and hates you anyway? And it's hard hard work. >> That is a narrative that I'm going to push back on, which is part of the problem, which is that it's the narrative of misery, which has been promoted. And it's not miserable to have children. It's joyful. [music] It's the most incredible love you'll ever experience in your life, but it's also really hard. And I think we have a bunch of [music] Actually, we are producing women and men [laughter] who are And I'll tell you what I mean by that. They [music] cannot deal with discomfort. They cannot deal with frustration. They cannot deal with sacrifice or hardship [music] or responsibility. They want it to be easy. Who said raising children was easy? You don't get the good stuff unless you put in the work. And it's the same if you're out in the world. Of course, it's easier to go to a job than it is to stay home with a child because a [music] child demands more of you, but it also gives back more. >> What do you think about what you said? >> Well, I definitely agree with >> the second woman in terms of it being incredibly rewarding, but also challenging. But it I think it comes down to, you know, not everyone has that negative outlook on the world, the pessimistic look. It's hard. you know, I'm taking my child to jiu-jitsu and they hate it. I mean, you can focus on negative things in life and not have a child. Like that same person with that sort of mentality, guess what? Take the child out of the equation. Take the spouse out of the equation. They're going to focus on the negative things in their life as a single individual. >> That's a great point, >> right? >> What a great point. So, it doesn't matter. That's how they are. Period. >> It doesn't it's it's it's the way they're they're it's their personality type, right? And if you're that person that's focusing on negative all the time, you're going to be miserable. You're going to be unhappy and you have to find a way to change your thinking. I do think again exercise is part of that because it does help you do that hard thing and things everything else becomes easier. But also do there's other things like being grateful like think about what you're grateful for in life, right? Like what are what what do you have that you know you can be thankful for? because everyone has something. Even if you're the Uber driver that doesn't get paid a lot, you have your health, you know, until your health goes bad, until you get a cancer diagnosis at the age of 40, until you have, you know, a heart attack at 55, until you get type two diabetes at the age of, you know, I don't know, perhaps 39, you don't realize how important your health is. or your parents come down with a cancer diagnosis or your sibling, let's say you don't have kids, you know, you you have something to be thankful for. And when you start to focus, have a daily practice of that, what to be thankful for, it does help train your brain and there's studies showing that helps train your brain to not be so pessimistic pessimistic. And so that's one thing to do in addition to the exercise. It's like the best thing that you can do, I think, is really daily exercise, physical activity, because it is hard. It is something that trains your brain to do hard things and other things become easier. But also, there's a lot of endorphins that are released that make you feel better. And there's also some evidence that like doing that hard thing when you're uncomfortable, when you're exercising hard or working out hard or even doing a sauna, when you're sitting in the sauna, it's hot and you're uncomfortable because sauna does mimic moderate intensity exercise. >> Those things are are that uncomfortableness is your brain's endogenous opioid system that is being activated and you're making something called dinorphine. This is the opposite of endorphin. Endorphin is the feel-good opioid. Dorphine is the thing that's uncomfortable. You're like, "Oh, this sucks. I hate it." Right? There's a neuropeptide being made called dinorphine. And guess what? When you make that dinorphine, there's an adaptation that happens. That adaptation is your brain going >> commonly known as heroin. >> Not dorphine. Dorphin. >> Ah, Rob, what are you doing? You're confusing the audience. >> O R P H I N. Dorphin. So >> you were about to confuse people, right? >> Yes. So what what happens is it's binding to a cappa opioid. And when that happens, it's basically telling the brain, "Oh, I'm uncomfortable. I'm uncomfortable." Whether that's from exercise or deliberate heat exposure from a sauna or a hot tub, that uncomfortable feeling, >> but it's good for you. >> Is good for you. You have to experience that uncomfortableness because what happens is then the brain adapts and the the receptors that bind to endorphins, the feel-good opioids, they're called muopioid receptors, they become more sensitive to the endorphine. So after that uncomfortableness of exercise or deliberate heat exposure, >> every endorphin that you make is going to feel better. Whether that's, you know, a kiss or a hug from a loved one or a joke that you're laughing at, whatever it is that's causing you to feel good for the moment, that endorphin, you're going to feel it more and you're going to feel it for longer. So, there are things that you can do and exercise being really, you know, a key, but also deliberate, you know, heat exposure from like hot tubs or saunas is another one that really can help with your state of mind, your mentality, your your mood. In fact, there's actually studies by Dr. Charles Raison, Dr. Ashley Mason some pioneering studies showing that if you do deliberate heat exposure and this was a very tricky machine that they use which is essentially raising people's core body temperature to a feverish state where it's essentially like you know going in the sauna they're reason raising people's core body temperature one and a half to two degrees or they're doing a a sham control so they're getting people hot enough to think it's a placebo like a treatment right but it's a a real placebo and they took these people with major depressive disorder gave them this treatment one time this was the pioneering study one time and they had an anti-depressant effect that lasted six to eight weeks after that, just from one sauna exposure. Now, Dr. Ashley Mason, she's at UCSF, she's now done follow-up studies using um infrared saunas that are sort of like these heat beds where people are laying in them, their head is out, but she's also raising their core body temperature to, you know, 1.5 to two degrees. And they're doing it multiple times, four to eight times. >> These guys, >> that's right. And this and she's also shown that it really in combination with cognitive behavioral therapy dramatically improves a battery of tests for major depressive disorder. I mean these people like just to give you a sense of how potent this effect was. If you there's a Hamilton scale that like this battery of tests that's done to measure to to basically assess people's mood, their depressive symptoms. If you have like a three-point change, that's considered clinically relevant. These people were having a 16-point change after doing cognitive behavioral therapy, which is talk therapy with the heatb. So, with the the sauna exposure, all this is to say, to get back to the the clip of the person, the mom saying, "Why do I want to be a mom when it's like so hard?" Basically, you're you're you're dealing with these hard moments. Is that you know what? Life is full of hard moments. Whether or not you have children, it's going to be full of different kinds of hard moments, right? And so the the reality is is you're missing out on that joy and the relationship that who's going to take care of you when you're older, too, right? I mean, there's there's all sorts of reasons to to have a family. It it's I promise you >> if I had a my way, I'd have 20 kids. I'll never forget we had a private equity guy in Santa Monica. His name was John Morris and we were part of this Vistage group and once a month you would meet with them. I said, "John, how many kids do you have?" He says, "Two." I said, 'Why too? You're a smart guy. Why do you have two kids? He says, 'Best mistake of my life.' I said, 'Mistake of your life? Why? He says, ' Tell me what we do in life that the moment we get good at it, we stop doing it. He says, I barely learn how to parent after two. I wish we would had four. So, really? Yeah. You know, my wife and I when we first started dating, we uh I had her read a book called 101 Questions to Ask Before You Get Engaged. And in the book, one of the questions is, "How many kids you want to have?" I wanted to have five. She wanted three. We ended up with four. Okay. So, we got four kids now. Two boys, two girls. Life-changing. I I I would do 20 if I could. Like I said earlier, >> it's Patrick, it's my it's my biggest regret in life is not having at least another child, you know? And and I again, I try not to focus on that regret because that's the wrong mindset, right? You don't want to be focusing on the negative because it's the same thing. >> Is it too late? >> I mean, >> it's not too late. >> It's not too late. and I may be trying to explore opportunities, but that you know sort of a personal I would question but but what I what I will what I will you know say is that for people out there that are younger and they have that mentality where they're like I don't want kids I don't feel like I want to be a mom or a dad mo mostly moms because they're the ones that expire earlier in terms of being able to have kids later in life. I mean, there's options out there now, like freezing down your eggs, you know, very important. I think I think that's like if you're if you're one of those women right now that are like, I'm pretty I'm never going to want to have kids. I would say to you like you may change your mind in 10 years and it will be very heartbreaking if you don't take steps right now to make sure that you can have children later in life, you know, because you might not be able to. So, um, but there's always adoption and stuff and that's of course another option as well. But um being pregnant and experiencing the whole process, it's it's it's amazing. It's just I loved being pregnant. I loved it. >> Loved being pregnant. >> I do. Oh yeah. I mean, you get >> You hear that sometimes I'm like, "Tell me why." >> Well, sure. There's like hard times. I mean like you gain 50 pounds and you know you can't sleep well sometimes and there's all sorts of like you're feeling aches and pains because all the relaxins that your body's making to help prepare for child birth >> but but you're also like the oxytocin and the bonding and knowing that you are preparing you know everything that you're you're doing what you're eating and and you're preparing this child and you're trying to give this child the best you know opportunity that you can to set them up right like there's it's all it's all like I guess a matter of like how you your outlook, right? It's better to try to focus on positive and that's >> No, listen, my respect for my wife went uh you know, of course I love my wife, but when you watch >> her have the baby and you're sitting here like once, twice, you know, this is this is incredible what the women's body does, you know, God's creation to be able to do that and go through the pain and it's amazing. It's amazing. But I appreciate you for being uh vulnerable here and talking about uh wanting to have more kids. Okay, question in regards to I don't know if you've seen this uh story came out about the 49ers, okay, and how they have a field. That's their field and their field is right next to a electrical substation on the bottom left. If you go to the bottom left, right there to the left, and and they're they're showing numbers that came out that Achilles and and uh ruptures of about 75% tears per season for the 49ers since 2014 compared to 0.08 per season for the average NFL team. Rob, if you want to play this clip by Paul Saladino, you know which one I'm talking about. I I send it to you. If you don't have it, I can send that to you as well. I wonder what you think is the impact of this, if you have anything to say on this. Go ahead, Rob. >> Ners are the best real world example of how EMFs can be harmful to humans. Since moving to Levi Stadium in 2014, they've become the most injured team in professional football. For 10 out of the last 11 seasons, they've been in the top five for games lost due to injury. Since 2014, the 49ers have had seven full Achilles and patellar tendon ruptures. The most recent example, George KD's Achilles tendon rupture on January 11th, 2026. The NFL average is 2 to three for the entire league per year. 49ers have had over 40 hamstring and calf tears in this time, while the NFL average is 12 to 15 per decade. What's going on here? The players joke about the electrical substation curse, but in 2014, the 49ers moved their practice field to Levi Stadium, which is right next to a huge electrical substation. The levels of magnetic fields where the 49ers practice have been measured to be over a hundred times higher than background levels where the 49ers are spending 20 to 30 hours a week. Can EMFs like this from magnetic fields be harmful for humans? There are medical studies which show these fields can potentially damage collagen structural integrity. Collagen is what makes up your tendons and ligaments. You've been told that EMFs are benign. >> You talked earlier about collagen, right? Do you see a correlation here? >> Uh, I have a question. Um, this field, what was it called? the name of the field. >> Electric magnetic field. >> No, no, no. I know what those >> Levi electric magnetic field. >> Has any anyone trained at Levi Field before the 49ers or was this just an empty field? >> This is the practice facility that they use. Can you ask? That's a great question because I think one of the articles says >> that uh uh can you pull up to see if the 49ers trained at the Levi practice facility at all >> previous to that? >> Or or or any other team like whoever like Yeah, exactly. like is it did >> so what the article also says is no other NFL team is next to a major electric substation or utility grid no other >> yeah so here's the thing okay as an analytical person as an evidence-based person like this is an observational data where you're looking at correlation right and so I want to I'm asking the question whether or not you know because there there it could be something about the way the field like is designed the way they're running on it like how like I don't I don't know or did any other team there also have this problem. >> So, okay, before 49ers, the 49ers trained at the summer camp, not at the Levi because it hadn't been built yet. Historically, their camps were hosted at different places, different colleges that they had. The 49ers from 198 1988 onward had their headquarters and practice facility in Santa Clara already well before Levi Stadium was constructed. But this was separate from Levi Stadium and its practice fields. July 2014 is when they open up Levi Stadium and the 49ers had began uh using the stadium and adjacent practice fields for training camp practices this summer. So you're saying there may be no correlation. >> Well, what I'm saying is it's hard to to identify the cause of what's causing their Achilles and tears, right? It could be the fact that they're next to this, you know, station that's, you know, emitting a lot of EMFs, or it could be that there's something about the way the field is designed that makes them move, like when they're using it, it's causing weird movements. >> I would assume they would probably, a team that big would probably build the field flawless to train there. They're spending hundreds of millions of dollars. >> So, here's my analysis of the EMF literature, okay? I I think that people that are occupationally exposed, so that would be maybe perhaps being that close to this this sort of, you know, place where you're getting a hundred times more background level. That's where you do have more concern is those occupational types of exposures. You know, people working in working in them where you'll see like cancer rates for example going up. Or the other thing that I'm worried about is for example like a cell phone in your pocket if you're a male and it affecting like sperm for example or perhaps something you know in your ear all the time, AirPods constantly infecting brain. It's like the the closeness of it is another thing. So it's exposure, concentration and also location, right? So in this case, they're not really close to the person's, you know, Achilles tendon, right? It's not like they're wearing something on their ankle. It's the the volume of exposure seems to be high. Is there a potential there for inflammatory oxidative processes? Like yes, but why would it be, you know, perhaps it's be because they're use they're exercising and they're putting a lot of wear and tear on, you know, that specific tendon and the background inflammation is high that it's basically push them pushing them over the edge. So I do think the possibility is there. Can we conclusively say it? No. But I think it's definitely something that should, you know, alarm us. You know, why why are these people getting these Achilles tendon tears at a rate that's what did you say? How much higher? It was pretty significant. >> Significant on the amount of tears they're having. And and 49ers, it's a very big team. This, you know, they they were locked in to potentially go to Super Bowl. Way too many injuries. Brock Pery KD and the Super Bowl this year was in San Francisco. So, you know, a lot of the fans wanted to see the 49ers go to the Super Bowl because it's a local favorite, right? It would have been San Francisco. So, it is a topic of discussion that a lot of fans are talking about, >> right? And, you know, the other thing to keep in mind is with these like correlations is did something else happen where they had some their their trainer is changing their diet, they're changing something else like we don't know at the same time, you know, as they move fields. I'm not saying that that's the case. I'm just pointing out the flaws of this type of, you know, correlation where it's like, well, there could be other things that we don't even know about that's happening. With that said, I will say the occupational types of exposure like who's working in that facility like what are they experiencing, right? That would be another question because that you would imagine they're in that facility, individuals working there, are they having sorts of problems? Obviously, they may not be working their way. If they fall, they get a 20% of employees have Achilles tear Rob. That would be a terrible situation on the field, >> but maybe something else are falling. >> Yeah, maybe some maybe they're getting cancer >> asking the right question. And by the way, it's not like this article was written by some blogger or something. NBC published this. Okay, this was a few days ago by NBC. So, it is a story that's getting, you know, the the right kind of criticism to see because these these owners are spending god knows how much money. Yeah. So, Dr. Alan Styles, the NFL's chief medical officer, directly addressed the theory that the team's injuries are linked to nearby electric substation and rejected it as unsupported by evidence. He said there's no data in the sports medicine literature that backs the claim that electric fields cause injuries. He also specifically refuted the idea that the 49ers lead the league in certain injury, calling the claim simply not true. Okay, so there you have it. That's the chief medical officer that responded to this. >> I don't know that anyone in the sports literature is looking at that correlation. So he said that there's no literature to support it, but that maybe because no one's actually looked at it. Like I Why would >> So you're pushing back on what he's saying as well. >> Yeah. I I look I'm saying I don't think I would go out and make the video that Paul Saladino made because I don't think it's strong enough evidence. I wouldn't say it conclusively. I maybe be a little more cautionary, but I think it's something to absolutely consider. And certainly like if I was, you know, the owner of this 40 the 49ers, I would either move them back to another training facility and see how that affects their injury risk or I don't know if this station can be turned off. I guess not. If it's if it's making electricity, then I probably can't do that. But I I certainly would move them to their old training facility to see if that changed things because then you'd have it, you know, well, we're moving them back to the other training facility. >> Change them in a heartbeat. I mean, even if there's a sports is very superstitious as well, let me tell you because what did you say? Placebo, right? I don't care if it works or not. Even if it's placebo, I like it. I have to take it. >> Even if the athlete is thinking about it, it's in their mind. I don't even want you to be thinking about it. So, if I'm the owner of the 40 49ers, I'm moving them to whatever other place I'm going to and uh I don't want my athletes to think about that because they spend a lot of money on these guys. >> You just brought up such a good point, Patrick, because there's something called the noibo effect, which is the opposite of the placebo effect. And that is if you think something bad is going to happen to you, if you're a 49er and you're like, "This story comes out. My my, you know, my my teammates are getting these Achilles tendon tears. Oh my gosh, it's this facility." and you think it's going to happen, you can actually cause bad things to happen. And there are trials showing about this like that this is a real thing. And again, it goes back to that person personality type. There's actually genes that are linked to a placebo effect and genes that are linked to a noibo effect. It's the pessimistic view point versus the optimistic viewpoint, right? And that's really a phenotype. It's a personality trait. And so you're absolutely right. If these if these football players are thinking perhaps that this is going to negatively negatively affect them, your body makes inflammatory things. You make oxidative stress like your your brain controls that and so you can make yourself more predisposed to tears and stuff because of the inflammation generated from the noibo effect. >> You ever read the book psychocybernetics? >> No. >> Never. >> Okay. So, this is an old book. It's a um psychiatrist who decides to become a uh cosmetic surgeon because he wants to make people feel better. By the way, this book Rob, can you type up how many book How many copies did psychocybernetics sell? Psychoscybernetics. Cyber right there. How many copies did it sell? No. No. Go back and just ask because it's not going to tell you on Amazon. It's been around since the 30s. >> How many No, no. You will love this book. I think it sold 35 million copies. >> It's like It's like one of those There you go. Yeah. 35 million copies. >> 1960. Okay. >> 1960. Yeah. It It's one of those books. A cosmetic surgeon who observed how self-image affected patient success >> and uh eventually he realized even all the cosmetic surgery didn't fix the issue that was internally. And whatever the mind believes, you know, you can kind of convince yourself it can become a reality. Anyways, I I I think you would enjoy the book. always find something negative to focus on and that's the bottom line and >> how do you manage that? So how do you how do you control that? So it it you know uh for me I came from a very low income. Nobody was winning. Family divorce, finances, we had nothing. You know, food stamps. My dad was a cashier at a 99 cent store. And I read a book called The Genius in All of Us that said, you know, the the average lowincome uh kid is raised in a family that is rejected 600,000 times from 0 to 18 years old. More negative affirming than positive affirming. Then it was middle class was 100,000 more negative than positive and then upper class was 100,000 more positive than negative. Right? So you have to reaffirm yourself to beliefs of power of positive thinking and you read these types of books to kind of elevate yourself and read the right affirmations. How does one go if you're raised in an environment that there's so much negativity ah it's that'll never happen to us. Oh we don't have a chance there and you want to make it out of that environment. How does one do it? >> Yeah. So, I mean that obviously I'm not a psychologist. So, I wouldn't say that I'm the be pretty positive >> the right person to to really answer this question. You would probably talk to someone like Dr. Arthur Brooks, by the way. You should. He's amazing. >> Yeah. I read his book, The Road to Freedom. The >> Road to Freedom. >> I don't know if you've read it or not. 2012. >> I I skimmed. >> I couldn't put it down. Road to Freedom. When it came out, I I I told everybody in my office, you guys got to read it. Phenomenal book. Please continue. you know. So, I mean, I think there's there's people respond differently to that t type of negative like you were talking about negative background where you're you're never you never going to be able to achieve something or like it's a very um what's the the the the term for it where you you basically you're it's like a def you're defeated, you know, where you're just constantly defeated and and it's like almost like this >> self-fulfilling prophecy, right? Um, I think that it depends on, you know, you have to kind of like train yourself to like realize that you actually can do things. And it's I don't know if it's an affirmation you do every day. Um, exercise is something that also helps with that. I think positive thinking where it helps you kind of just get out of that negative thinking where it's not going to work out. But you also have to realize that worshiping things like power or money or fame, I mean, these things are also trying to fulfill a void, that happiness void, right? So, like there's plenty of people that are very successful, very wealthy, very powerful that are not happy. You're right. Why is that, right? Because it doesn't bring happiness. It doesn't bring happiness. And I think that's that most of us out there that do know people like this or we see like look at Hollywood actors. I mean, their marriages are constantly breaking apart, right? I mean, they're they're wealthy, they're famous, they have what by anyone standsards would think, oh, they have everything. >> But there's always this treadmill of it's not good enough. It's not good enough. I need more. I need more. And it's a very it's [snorts] a slippery slope to get on that, you know, that that treadmill of, let's say, you start to get some success, but then you're comparing yourself to everyone else, then you need more. And so, you're not happy because you're not getting those things. And I think that's what comes back to, you know, those macronutrients of happiness that Dr. Arthur Brooks talk about where it's it's the it's the enjoyment and the relationships. It's the sense of purpose. Like what is it? What you have to have that sense of purpose. Are you are you a mother? Are you someone like me who I love helping and educating people to live healthier? I feel like that's a purpose. My sense of purpose and you have to have satisfaction, right? satisfaction of doing something, accomplishing it, whether it's a 10-minute workout in the morning, you know, whether it's reading a book, you know, finishing reading it, whatever it is, you have to you have to have the satisfaction of doing that challenging thing. And all these things help you maintain happiness and have happiness. And I think that's >> I love it. Yeah. You know, in 2008 when the market crash happened, the next year in 0809, I don't know what the study was, there was more books. They measured what word it was. every there was more books 2,000 plus copies I believe where the word happy or happiness was in it because everybody wanted to find out how to be happy. So think about this run that we have man. I just want to be happy. And then you you realize you know even happiness is temporary. It's fulfillment. It's it's what am I doing that there's a deeper purpose to what I'm doing. The deeper part you know you go through the survival phase. I'm just trying to pay my bills. Then maybe you get some status or look at me. I'm a doctor. I'm a professor. I'm a entrepreneur. I'm making six figures. I got an MBA. I got a masters. I'm a you know and I got 100,000 followers on Twitter. I'm somebody. Then you go to you know what? I want to be free. Then you're free. You have some money in the bank. Then you're like, now what do I want to do? And then eventually comes back to what you were talking about the purpose. And you feel it when somebody is in pursuit of something bigger than just money. And somehow someway when you're in the pursuit of purpose, money shows up. I don't know why money tends to show. >> You know what? You know what work? You know what was something that I did? And it was funny because after I talked to Dr. Brooks about this, I realized it's something that like the Tibetan monks and and people like like Buddhists do. Um, I was dwelling on more mortality, my mortality. Like if I know it sounds morbid, but I think it's actually a good practice and experiment for people to try because when you think about life being, you know, it's it's right you are you are going to die someday. And when you are in that phase of of, you know, the end of your life, what is it that's going to be important to you at that moment? Is it going to be another hundred thousand followers? Can't take those with you. Is it going to be another, you know, million dollars? Can't take that with you. No. >> Is it going to be another podcast? No. What is it going to be that's meaningful to you? And for me, it was the time I was with my family, the experiences that you know, they're you can't put any value to them. And and it's something that if you again if you it's called mort mortality dwelling but I mean if you think about it because for me I as a high achiever h being being a parent I mean my productivity went down and I I struggled with that for a while and it and it wasn't until I really started thinking about what was the most important to me. And again I think people can really tap into that by thinking about their death. And when you think about it you'll find what's important to you. And it's it's not going to be the money. It's not going to be the the fame. It's not going to be the followers. It's going to be the memories and the experience and the experiences and those treasure moments with your people that you love, the family, your kids, your friends, your parents. >> Those are the moments that are so precious. And you know, that also brings me back to like a lot of people >> like they're searching for this higher power, right? Like there's like God or something, you know, spiritual, right? And um you know, for me, I was raised Catholic, so I had a baseline to go back to. And you as I got older, I kind of drifted and became a little bit too analytical. And and it wasn't until I became a mother that I found God again. >> Why? because the love I experienced becoming a mother and the love I had for my son. Not that I didn't love my husband as much because it definitely loved my husband too, but there's something about having a child that this your overwhelming sense of love and I and I would go on these long runs and think about it and think about my think about my mortality and never seeing my son again after I die. And I think it just can't be possible. you can't experience the bonding and the closeness and the love that you do as a parent and then it just go away. And and for me, I found God again. And and you know, for other people, it might be something that's very traumatic. Sometimes there's you you get to your lowest point and that's how you you basically can find God or whatever your spirituality is. But but for me it was becoming a mom and the love that I had for my son and thinking that it can't just be gone. Like it's too powerful. It's too powerful. So I'm all getting at, you know, happiness and and I think part of that component is is finding, you know, finding your spirituality. Um you know, whatever your your religion is. Some people find that through meditation and eventually find God. But um you know I think it's all part of of happiness and people do sort of seek that out. >> Did that also get you closer to mom and dad? >> Everyone. It got it got me closer to everyone that I love. Everyone that I love. And and it also helped me prioritize those relationships because it's so easy for people that are high achievers to get caught up in the, you know, productivity loop. I have to I have to work. I have to do a podcast. I have to go give a presentation. I have to do this work and get that satisfaction of like achieving and accomplishing those things. And there's a little bit of ego there. And you have to separate that. And I realized that no, I'm going to take time to do the family vacation. I'm going to take time to spend, you know, a few hours with friends that I care about. I mean, you have to put in that work and that effort, but is so rewarding. And this is the year like as I was doing a podcast prep for Arthur Dr. Arthur books. I know I've come to some of this realization on my own, but reading some of his books, like skimming some of his books and his material, everything was like it was like this moment where it was like this is so true and I really need to focus on it. You know, you need to make the effort to really be happiness doesn't just come to you. I think a lot of people are sort of it's like they have this misconception that happiness is something that you just experience. It just happens to you. >> No, it's just like it's just like a good diet. You have to like give yourself the right components. You have to work at it. You know, it's work. >> Have [clears throat] you read Outwitting the Devil? >> No. I need I need your book list. It sounds like there's >> Yeah. No. No. I But with with the more you're talking, it's just it's prompting books in my mind. Outwitting the Devil is a book Napoleon wrote in the late 30s, early 40s, and they kind he said 1938. There you go. And it was set aside, and then eventually it came out. I read this book uh at a PF Changs in Woodland Hills, California. And I sat there, my sister recommended. I'm like, "Oh my god, what a powerful book." How so many different institutions when we're kids use the concept of fear to scare the crap out of us. And we're raised in such a confined, you know, no, I can't do, no, no, I can't. And then you finally realize, no, no, that's a business model. And you have to kind of let it go. Anyways, I I just think you would enjoy this book as well. Outputting the devil. Two other things before we wrap up. I got questions for you. One is do you see a correlation between being bilingual and delaying Alzheimer's? Because I see people saying there the benefit of speaking multiple languages. What is the benefit of speaking multiple languages? Yes, there is a correlation between delaying brain aging and because >> you know when you are experiencing when you're basically doing novel having novel experiences novel being things that are different so learning a different language something that you're not used to right that takes a lot of work um a lot of cognitive power and it's also no novelty as well I mean that is absolutely stimulating a variety of pathways in the brain that are protective from brain aging. So for example, brain drive neurotrphic factor is increased and that's been shown in people that do learn other languages. And it's not just languages, it's even like for example like taxi drivers in in in London, you know, where they they have to use their before GPS. I mean these people like use their brain to have mental maps of the city. Yeah. >> And and there's studies showing that even that is correlated with reducing the risk for >> alcohol. It's like a workout, right? >> It's a workout. You're working your brain out. It's very important. And again, it's it comes down to like when you when you stimulate your brain, you are increasing dopamine. You're increasing trophic factors in the brain that are causing, you know, strengthening synapses, the connection between neurons. They are growing new neurons. It's doing a lot of stuff that even exercise can do. So, there's there's other roads to improving brain aging besides exercise. And one of them is really mental stimulation. And that can be in the form of learning a new language. It can be in the form of I mean I am constantly analyzing science. I am using my brain all the time. >> That's for sure. That's for sure because you have to break that down. But the idea of language, you know, is it how to communicate? Is it, you know, different dialect? What what is it that delays Alzheimer's? You know, that correlation. It's very interesting to me. >> It is. It's it but it's again not just language, right? So that's that's the other thing that's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Is there something unique about language? There might be. >> Yeah. Yeah. To me, I play a game. So, let's just say we're done with our conversation today. I'll get in the car and I'm going to the other property. I'm going to play the game of how many facts I can restate from the conversation we had together. I'm going try to see if I can remember how many. I'm like, okay, she said this, she said that, she said this, she said this, she said that. This is a form of an exercise to see if the memory is getting stronger. Instead of, okay, I just talked to this person. You walk away. And you know, some of these exercises can help you out, but the language is definitely one that's interesting to me. Last one here, gut microbiome. Okay. What What do we What What does the gut tie to? Is there stress? Is it aging? What does the gut tie to? >> It ties to everything. I mean, so the gut is the first organ that sees the food that you take in, right? So, um, it's really prone to inflammation because of that. Food is inflammatory, even if you're eating a healthy diet. When you when you put food in your gut, it is forcing the gut to work. And so, you do cause some amount of inflammation in the gut no matter what. If you're eating an unhealthy diet and you're overweight or obese, that inflammation gets worse. And what I mean by inflammation is your gut epithelial cells open up and they release something that's in the gut because you have trillions of bacteria in there. The gut microbiome as you mentioned. Well, the gut microbiome, those bacteria aren't always living. Some of them are dying off constantly. You're making new ones. You have them dying off. Well, bacteria have something on their outer cell membrane called lipopolysaccharide or LPS for short. And that gets released in the blood system when you eat a meal. And when that meal is really, really big, more of it gets released. When that meal is high inflammatory, if it's refined sugar, saturated fat, more of that gets released. When that LPS gets into circulation, it activates your immune system and it causes inflammation that affects the brain. There's studies showing that if you inject LPS into a normal healthy person and or a placebo saline control, they get inflammation in their brain. They get depressive symptoms, they get, you know, their cognitive functions depressed. All coming from the gut, right? LPS is coming from the gut. So it does affect you know inflammation in the brain which then leads to Alzheimer's disease and then the gut microbiome itself which was specifically what you're asking about is also there's a direct line you know there's like neurons actually in the gut and so there's like this veagal nerve that's connect that's connected you know from the brain all the way to the gut and the bacteria in your gut communicate with that with the brain through this vagus nerve and so the different types of bacteria also seem to play a role like certain types of bacteria in the gut can cause more anxiety. And there's all these studies that have been done in animals where you can take a a mouse that's more of anxious phenotype mouse and take their gut bacteria and transplant it into a mouse that doesn't have anxiety and you you could cause them to have anxiety, right? And and then vice versa. You can take bacteria from a really robust stealth like they're they're, you know, they don't have that anxiety and put it into a mouse with anxiety and lower their anxiety. And that all comes down to, you know, there's neurotransmitters that are being stimulated with respect to the types of bacteria in your gut. >> How does one find out what they have? >> Um, that's an emerging field. So, there are variety of tests that are consumer available out there. I would say that those tests are it's hard to know what to do with that data. So, so you can get a test done and get some data back and then some, you know, you might think you need to eat a certain diet or whatever. I would say we're in our infancy of really truly accurately being able to do a test at home on the individual level and figure out like what to do with that data. Um, what I will say is that what we do know is that there are certain foods that you can eat that are known to be beneficial to promote the growth of healthy probiotic types of bacteria and decrease the growth of more of the pathogenic type. >> I know you're a broccoli person if I'm not mistaken. >> Yeah, broccoli. Broccoli is great. Um I would say fermentable types of fiber are really good. So those are the types of fiber that are found in mushrooms like beta glucans, oats, berries, the skins of fruits are really really these are the fermentable soluble type of fiber. This is >> skin of fruits. >> Yeah. So like you eat like a blueberry and it's it's like in the fiber the fermentable fiber is in the skin of the fruit. Got it. >> Believe it or not, vegetables are mostly the insoluble type of fiber. That's the kind of fiber that's important for moving stuff through the system. You want to get stuff you know, out, which is also important. But the fermentable type of fiber is the stuff that's actually viscous and it's fermented by bacteria. And this this actually allows the beneficial type of bacteria, the probiotic type of bacteria to out compete some of the pathogenic type of bacteria. So you're having, you know, a better gut microbiome, which is going to basically help you lower inflammation when you eat food because it helps lower that, you know, the gut from opening up and releasing lipopolyaccharide into your blood system. It's called the postrandial inflammatory response. It's after you eat a meal, inflammation. That's why people feel sleepy after a meal. Inflammation is generated. Inflammation makes you feel sleepy because it's taking energy away from your brain and it's also increasing these cytoines that make you sleepy. So, you want to lower that post-inflammatory response after a meal. So, that would be again um you want to basically have the right types of foods. Uh, exercise also, by the way, helps strengthe strengthen the gut so that it's less likely to be what's called leaky gut, right? That that permeability of the gut. Um, is another thing to do. Some people can supplement with probiotics. I would say that's it's kind of flow through. If you supplement with healthy probiotics, the minute you stop supplementing with them, you're going to be back. It's it it doesn't take residence there. It's a flow through effect. So, it is having a beneficial effect, but it's a flowthrough effect because there's really no residential space to occupy. It's kind of like California. There's nowhere to build, right? The bacteria are all there. >> It's just like California, there's nowhere to build. >> Well, I mean, there's [snorts] places to build, but >> San Diego, there's nowhere to build. Maybe on the >> out. Yes. In the city in the in the cities. That makes sense. >> But what I'm saying is that the real estate is it's limited, right? And so there's not a lot of places for that probiotic bacteria. >> You can always move to Florida, by the way. And it's it's a beautiful place here. We love it in Florida. You But Dallas is great. You don't California here. >> New York, Hampton's. >> Yeah. uh you go up, you have so many options and it's easy. Three hours. So I lived 24 in LA, five years in Dallas, and officially I've lived more than in Florida than Dallas. We love it in Dallas. And when I was building a national business, what I liked about Dallas was I was a three-hour flight from anywhere. LA, it's six. New York, you know, so it's a mess. And in Florida, it's also easy. And then in LA, there's nothing to do to go west. It's just Hawaii. But here, if I go east, the world is east. So if I'm gonna if I'm going to go to Europe, if I want to go to Germany, Italy, it's this way. There's nothing this way. Okay. So that was a little plug for Florida. If you guys ever think about moving, we love it here. My my daughter's four years old, Brooklyn. She's the best in the family. She is a fireball non-stop. Uh but when it comes down to kids, we got rid of cereal for the kids. Life-changing for us. We haven't had cereal for three years. So the kids are now eating better. They're exercising. They're all in shape physically. They do well. Um, but at four years old, you know, something just eat a little cookie. Give a little candy. It's okay. It's sugar-free. It's this. How do you manage candy cookie with kids at that age? Four years old. >> You'd be surprised. is so when my son was four, I mean I was explaining to him the negative effects of added sugar on the brain, on the body, how it makes you die sooner than you would. And you'd be surprised how much these children can actually understand. And in kindergarten, you know, he was reading nutrition labels of his friends lunches and telling them that's too much sugar. you shouldn't have that because it's going to I mean he did say make you die sooner but I mean I [laughter] mean but now he's got his friends that are are >> going around telling people they're going to die. >> But the point is that like education I mean obviously they're going to love the the the sweetness and there's a a dopamine response and it is addictive. However, education and and explaining things to them like you would an adult really does help because kids can understand a lot. And I think that pe people, you know, parents underestimate that that education like knowing like don't just say no, it's bad for you. Like what does that mean? Like they want to know. They want to know [clears throat] why. And when you can say, hey, do you want mommy and daddy to live longer? They're going to say yes. Well, if we eat this, you know, added sugar and the cakes and the candy and the cookies, that's going to make us like die sooner. And guess what? When you start earlier in life, it's going to affect you, too. And they get it, you know, and so that's that's been my trick. Now, it doesn't of course they're going to want some sweets. Like when >> we have it figured out with the three the other three, they're all in top-notch shape. You see them, they're very athletic. With the fourth one, I'm I'm She She is a very good negotiator. Very She daddy, this is low sugar, daddy. This is low sugar. It's okay. I'm just going to take a little bite. No, baby. Here's why. Uh, but she's a great salesperson. Maybe she's going to do very well in business later on. Who knows? She knows how to close grandpa and uh the nanny and mommy very not mommy as much, but grandpa and uh nanny. Definitely. By the way, Anxious Generation, Jonathan Height. I'm sure you've read it. Yes. Have you had him on in your podcast? No. That would be a good conversation with the two of you. Agree. >> That's another one of those good ones. >> This has been a blast talking to you. Thank you for this. It was awesome. How can people find you? >> Well, as I mentioned, I have a podcast. It's called FoundMFitness. It's on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcast. My website, foundmyfitness.com. I have a great newsletter. Every week I send out a really good email on the latest science behind health, nutrition, aging with actionable takeaways. So, that can be that's free. You can sign up for that on my website, foundmyfitness.com. Beautiful newsletter. Yeah, that's that's that's what I'm on social media. >> Dr. Dr. Rhonda Patrick, found my fitness. You can find me everywhere. >> Is there anywhere people can ask you questions or No, >> I do have um so I don't have sponsors on my podcast. I don't, you know, have any ads. I'm sponsored by listeners. So, it's kind of a crowdfunding kind of Okay. I would say um way that we're we're supported. And I part of the membership that people get for $15 a month if they do want to join the membership and support everything I'm doing. they get extra perks where every month I do a live Q&A and they submit questions and I answer you know the questions based on top voted based on interest based on what I want to know what I think other people want to know and it's recorded and they have a private podcast that it's put out on they also get a private podcast that I that only is special for members but so that's where I really answer questions a lot is is through my my membership and Q&A but I do sometimes try to get on social media I would say less now than before because I actually don't think It's good to consume social media. As much as that hurts my business to say because I am on social media and I post on it, I don't consume it. I just think it's it's it's become unhealthy. So, um anyways, that's a whole other conversation. >> Maybe another time we'll do that. >> Uh gang, uh if you want to learn more, click on a link below. We'll put it below for uh the website, the channels, everything. Thank you so much for coming out. Pleasure. Really enjoyed it. >> Really enjoyed it as well. Take care. When we set out to create a shoe that blends comfort, function, and luxury, we had the choice to make it fast. We had the choice to make it cheap. We chose neither. Instead, we [music] chose Tuskan Italy. We chose true Italian craftsmanship. Each pair touched by 50 skilled hands. We chose patience, spending two years perfecting every detail. And we chose the [music] finest quality at every step. Introducing the future looks bright collection. Not rushed, not disposable, not ordinary, rather intentional, luxurious, timeless.