Video summary
Konstantin Kisin argues that the decline of legacy media, exemplified by MSNBC's ratings plummeting to their lowest since July 19th, 2014 with just 38,000 viewers in the key 25-54 demographic, is driven more by economic shifts than mere discrediting. While critics often point to a lack of credibility as the primary cause, Kisin contends that new media platforms operate under equally loose fact-checking standards and frequently feature unverified claims without consequence. The fundamental change lies in how content distribution works; legacy institutions act merely as middlemen who package individual creators for audiences, whereas algorithms now allow users to curate their own feeds directly from various sources like Substack or YouTube. Consequently, it makes little financial sense for top talent to remain on traditional networks that cannot offer the same audience reach or revenue potential as direct-to-consumer models, leading legacy outlets to lose access to high-quality content over time. The conversation extends to the fragmentation of social media and the implications of echo chambers following Elon Musk's acquisition of X (formerly Twitter). Kisin suggests that while there has been a loud exit by some liberal users toward platforms like Blue Sky or Instagram, it is unlikely that society will split into entirely separate political commentary websites due to the valuable network effects of interacting with diverse viewpoints. He expresses hope for continued improvements on X regarding bot issues and offensive content, noting Jordan Peterson's observation that online anonymity has driven the cost of being a "prick" down to zero. Kisin acknowledges the trade-off between free speech and maintaining an enjoyable public square where the most offensive voices do not dominate discussions, arguing that restricting harmful behavior is necessary for healthy discourse without necessarily limiting legitimate expression. A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the psychological manipulation inherent in modern digital platforms through intermittent schedule rewards and gambling-like design elements intended to create addiction. Kisin contrasts these experiences with his own preferences, noting that while he finds YouTube useful but requiring discipline, Instagram skews darker, and TikTok is particularly potent for fueling outrage. He shares an anecdote from a Spotify event where executives expressed a desire to make the time users spend on their app feel like "the best hour of your day" so that users leave with no regrets and improved lives. Kisin questions how many other companies can genuinely claim this, suggesting that while reducing engagement metrics might hurt profitability in the short term, post-content clarity could eventually win over content designed purely to trigger outrage or addiction at all costs. Ultimately, Kisin envisions a future where technology evolves beyond simple algorithmic curation of opposing views toward personalized aggregators on mobile devices that seamlessly pull desired articles from Substacks and videos from creators into a unified interface. This shift represents the next big thing in media consumption, moving away from navigating separate platforms to having an app that delivers exactly what a user wants—whether it be outrage or nuanced analysis—in the best possible format. The economic reality is clear: as competition increases and audiences gain more choice, legacy institutions will struggle to maintain relevance unless they adapt to these new distribution models where creators bypass gatekeepers entirely.
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give me your assessment of the state of
Legacy Media at the moment maybe the
postmortem post election uh the level of
credibility I think uh msnbc's ratings
recently uh collapsed to its lowest
since July 19th 2014 38,000 total
viewers in the 24 to 54 age group 30y
year age bracket look there's a lot of
uh I have an article on my substack
which is also a video uh called the the
real reason the mainstream media is
dying and I think there's actually a lot
of Economic and other drivers of this
it's you know people in our space like
to go oh they've been discredited they
well actually if you apply the same
standards to New Media most of the New
Media is equally discreditable correct
it's not exactly showering itself in
glory no and it's you know the amount of
factchecking that happens which just
held to away less rigorous standards
right the that's basically all the
difference is it's like people on a
podcast who will have some crazy guy on
who's talking completely do you expect
it's just you know it's me we're just
shooting the [ __ ] right have a bigger
audience than MSNBC or CNN who then then
go look at how they got this tiny fact
wrong so there's a lot of this [ __ ]
going on I think agreed um but the real
reason is that I think the real shift is
less about that actually and I think a
lot of it is to do with the economics of
how media Works um what is h if you
think about what a news channel is or a
newspaper is it's basically they are
buying individual creators packaging
them together and offering it to people
as a package you no longer need to do
that because algorithms exist and you're
able to curate your own stuff uh and it
also doesn't really make Financial sense
for the content creators nobody could
put you on TV now and it's not
because um of of the because you think
TV is discredited is because they don't
have the audience to offer you or the
money to offer you or whatever cuz it
makes more sense for you to cut out the
middle man and go straight to your
audience the same for me with my
substack it's the same for me with
trigonometry on on YouTube so uh what's
happening is the mainstream institutions
are simply losing the ability to
maintain the top talent and over time
you will see that mus customization that
we talked about with drinks applied to
content as well and probably you know
the next big thing is going to be some
sort of thing on your phone which
curates on an algorithm basis all the
content that you like from different
platforms as opposed to being like hey
I'm going on YouTube and I'm seeing this
if you had a thing on on on an app on
your phone that went well here's the the
newspaper article you really want to
going to read the substack from whoever
the video from whoever Etc couple tweets
that are yeah exactly um so the the
economics of the whole thing are
changing uh and uh there's just a lot
more competition now so people have way
more choice and so you can you can go to
wherever your particular preferences are
being ped handed to in the best possible
way and and you can get exactly the
thing or outrage or outrage or whatever
um and uh you know as I say For Better
or Worse you're going to get exactly
what you
want what's your thoughts on this uh I
guess bifa trifecting of uh social media
networks a lot of uh liberal type people
leaving X over the last month or so some
going to Blue Sky some just swearing off
of this altogether the guardian made a
uh Hefty exit note uh I wonder whether
they'll be back at some point um what
are the implications of not only people
being within their own Echo Chambers on
the same platform but being within their
own Echo Chambers now that our uh entire
universe is apart yeah I don't think
that's really happened in in the sense
that people think it's happened I think
what's happened is a lot of people have
made loud exits uh I don't think that
the vast majority of those leftwing
people have left to X um some have some
have they post more on Instagram now or
whatever but broadly speaking um nobody
wants to be on the third best social
media platform the network effect is
very real um and so uh I I don't think
we're actually going to split off into
our own political commentary websites
because the interaction is quite
valuable with with different sides uh
but we will see how that evolves I mean
one of the things I I I am hopeful with
X is
that I was
incredibly um grateful to Elon for
buying it and for the changes that he's
made but I do think there's more work to
do things that he himself identified
when he took over uh like dealing with
the bot issue and it has become a bit of
a cesspit it really has the [ __ ] posting
is uh real yeah and so do you think
Trump would have got in if El hadn't
bought
x uh nobody knows
I suspect not but maybe he would have
done I don't think anybody really knows
um I think elon's support uh and X was
was a big factor cool thought experiment
but I just I really hope that over time
what happens is uh Elon continues to
improve X and there are improvements
that could be made and certainly finding
a way like I don't need to see the nword
in every reply threat that do you know
what I mean do you see what I'm saying
yes like that that would be quite nice
um and and I'm sure there's there's ways
of dealing with that you know Eric
Weinstein when we had him on we had him
kind of back and forth and I sort of
accused him of not having Solutions and
I don't have Solutions exactly but I
think the problem Jordan Peterson put
his finger on a long time ago is that
online anonymity causes a lot of issues
online anonymity is also extremely
valuable but there's got to be some way
of finding some kind of no Solutions
only tradeoffs right that yeah what was
it that he once said um anonymity online
has driven the approximate price of
being a prick down to zero M and so my
and and so my point is I'm not a
snowflake who is triggered by some
unpleasant word in the thing I just
recognize that if we're going to have a
Public Square the most [ __ ] person
ever shouting the most offensive word
that he can think of the loudest is
probably not conducive to a healthy
discussion and also is it an enjoyable
environment to be in want to social
media you know everybody's seen this it
was Tristan Harris
or the Litany of uh limic hijack
techniques that we've seen from
intermittent schedule rewards to designs
being taken from gambling and casinos
and stuff all of that stuff um even if
that is all
happening at least trying to restrict
down to make it an enjoyable experience
if you're going to hack my fundamental
py ology to get me addicted to this app
at least have the thing that I'm
addicted to the content that I'm
addicted to be something that once I
finish up I go so I I went to this um
Spotify event in La a couple of weeks
ago they announced this new uh creative
partner program thing and I went there
and I got to sit down with Alex
Nordstrom who's President and he told me
Roman Wason Muller as well who's like
the head of podcasting told me the same
thing he said we want the hour that
people spend on Spotify every day no
matter what it is but they're
specifically talking about podcasting we
want that to be the best hour of their
day that they spend on their screens
that they look back at it and they have
no regrets they think that made my life
better when we leave and I don't know
how many other apps membership services
and sites and stuff like that can say
the same thing how much do they pay you
to say that uh nothing yet uh but I I
think it's I think it's genuinely true
when I when I reflect on my own
experience when I reflect on my own use
of these sorts of platforms uh I can't
always say the same thing for YouTube I
need to be more disciplined on YouTube
it's like a a a tool that can be used
for good or evil on YouTube and then as
we get more toward Instagram it sort of
skews a little bit darker the five times
a year that I go on Tik Tok I'm like oh
my God uh it's a potent [ __ ] fuel um
substack I would say for me is even more
reliably uh better oh sub's amazing
hours spent than uh on Spotify but more
effort
you have to read exactly even if I
listen you voiceovers and stuff like
that um but yeah I'm just I I really
really hope that that can that energy
can kind of be a little bit more in
infused and I'm aware that that is going
to damage time on site that that's going
to reduce interaction that's going to
reduce engagement that's going to make
companies less profitable in some ways
or whatever but I wonder whether
uh the post content ENT Clarity that
people have after they've spent a bit of
time on something can end up winning
over outrage triggering porn at all
costs and um yeah I I I that makes sense
to me around like does every other reply
it is there is a lot of [ __ ] posting on
X now because it's like the shiny new
toy where people can say whatever pretty
much whatever they want and uh not that
it's just not a superbly enjoyable
experience as much of the time as I
would like it to be like should be able
to be easily
fixed should it I would hope so I think
that if you can curate your algorithm in
a manner where you can say hey I want to
step in I'm not limiting free speech at
all just like that's that's not the sort
of stuff I want to see I don't see music
from very many jazz bands on Spotify uh
you know the YouTube algorithm tends to
show me stuff for the most part that I
actually agree with YouTube doesn't
outrage upon you all that much with
opposing point of view now maybe that's
Echo chambery and obviously lots of
content creators that you like may find
something not that you agree with but
something they disagree with which you
will also disagree with um but I get the
sense that there could be more work to
be done that being said I follow 101
people on Twitter which is a very good
way to just constrain down reality to
the point where most of what you see is
fine but I'm aware that that's a and you
can mute people who are rude or whatever
or block even that the muting and the
blocking thing Elon like announced an
update to that relatively recently I
think yeah the blocking thing people who
you've blocked still see your stuff yeah
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