Video summary
Steven Bartlett explores the stark transition from being a wealthy, independent podcaster to becoming a public figure through traditional media outlets like the BBC and The Guardian. He explains that this shift legally reclassifies him as "public interest," which fundamentally alters his relationship with privacy; once on these platforms, journalists can publish details about his private life or business without fear of defamation lawsuits because it is deemed relevant news coverage. This change necessitates a rigorous system to manage scrutiny and feedback, leading Bartlett to adopt strict protocols where he does not search for himself online across any social media platform like TikTok or Instagram. He argues that consuming external validation or criticism distorts one's principles and focus, so his team actively filters out negative comments from friends and associates who might inadvertently share them on social networks, ensuring he only receives information aligned with his core values rather than public perception. To maintain mental clarity amidst this intense pressure, Bartlett relies heavily on systems inspired by Joe Rogan, including limiting feedback loops to a small circle of trusted individuals and focusing survival instincts similar to those in early human tribes where the group's well-being depended on individual focus. He emphasizes that dealing with criticism or paranoia requires an internal grounding mechanism rather than trying to counteract public opinion directly, which he views as an inefficient use of energy. Bartlett illustrates this by sharing his personal routine for managing stress and maintaining perspective during difficult moments: heavy kettlebell workouts, five minutes of cold therapy, and the occasional use of magic mushrooms. These practices help him navigate the "ambient anxiety" that comes with fame, where every public interaction carries a weight because one knows they are being watched or judged by thousands upon returning home to fans waiting outside their door. The conversation highlights the hidden costs associated with different types of wealth and influence through contrasting examples involving Ben Francis and Drake. Bartlett notes that while Drake enjoys immense celebrity status, he faces severe privacy invasions where paparazzi follow him down streets and mobs gather at events like Nando's in Manchester or Lakers games. In contrast, Ben Francis, the CEO of Gymshark with a net worth three times greater than Drake's, operates without such public scrutiny but bears the crushing burden of business responsibility; he must ensure payroll for thousands of employees every week, sometimes lying on his kitchen floor at 3 AM to calm himself during financial crises. Bartlett concludes that both paths have distinct prices: fame demands privacy and constant performance under a microscope, while high-level entrepreneurship demands relentless operational pressure and emotional resilience against the fear of failing one's workforce. Ultimately, Bartlett frames these experiences through Mark Manson's philosophy regarding which costs an individual is willing to incur for specific rewards. He reflects on how people often underestimate the reality behind accolades like dining with Prince William or appearing in major media, realizing that everyone they meet knows their name and expects perfection, creating a relentless pressure to never have a bad day publicly. This realization fosters deep empathy for figures like Justin Bieber, who struggles under similar constraints of public expectation despite his massive wealth. The discussion serves as a cautionary tale about the trade-offs inherent in success, suggesting that whether one chooses the path of global celebrity or high-stakes business leadership, they must accept the specific toll their chosen game exacts on their personal life and mental state without expecting to escape it entirely.
Read the full video transcript
talking about criticism you've moved
from
like being rich in an independent media
way
to now being famous in a very sort of
normal traditional media way as soon as
you accept the Dragon's Den deal
that is you allowing yourself to be
noticed by the guardian and BBC and all
of the rest of these people what have
you learned about
the differences in scrutiny and tenor
between these two worlds when I was a
podcaster or a CEO
um I wasn't of public interest at all
that's actually the legal definition the
word public interest when you become and
you become part of a BBC show you
legally become public interest what's
that mean means that people can write
certain things about you that they
couldn't otherwise that's the actual
it's a legal term so if you were to for
example sue a newspaper
um they would make a case that we could
say that about him or we could reveal
his private business because it's of
public interest they wouldn't be able to
do that for someone that wasn't on on
the BBC so that all of that stuff
changes the things that you have to keep
the same and I think this is the same
for everybody is you need to keep your
circle of information your circle of
feedback tight and close and small you
have to put systems in place and I think
this is actually the case this is what
Joe Rogan's done really well and I've
heard him speak about it at Great length
is you can't search your name online
which I never do I don't search my name
on anything not tick tock not Instagram
not YouTube nowhere because it's it's
for me like the
there's a set of principles and there's
a there's a set of principles which are
more important which is like me being
true to myself and delivering in my way
the feedback can be really distorting
because it's not necessarily like always
helpful so someone could comment on
something that I produced and say this
is terrible this is Dreadful you need to
do this this and this now if I take that
feedback violate my principles we end up
in a place which we talked about earlier
where you lose focus
to go for the decade which I talked
about the systems I'm setting up in my
life you have to limit the amount of
feedback you get which is not not easy
but you've had a few periods where the
Press have been a bit Pokey and and
accusatory and attacking how have you
dealt with the the felt and what's that
been like you know you're a young guy
like you've gone from this world where
you've got to be rich and largely
Anonymous although you weren't totally
Anonymous but relatively now very much
changed how do you deal with that as a
felt sense of you it's systems and
processes again it's like even my
friends right so if my friends see
something on Tick Tock or Instagram or
if it's like about my gov whatever
do not send it to me
I will not see it
and I again I've I actually took a lot
of advice from Rogan's system Rogan's
the same none of his friends can send
them anything I don't see that stuff
because it's not useful information and
the truth is and again I speak to Simon
cynic about this you don't want to start
aiming at ghosts you don't want to start
exerting energy I'm trying to counteract
public perception
um
which isn't necessarily based on
even their own perception of reality
anyway you don't it's not a useful sort
of way to allocate your chips I talked
about those 24 chips you have 60 enough
when you wake up it's a really
inefficient use of your time it doesn't
bring you forward in any way so it all
comes down to systems and processes you
need these principles in your life which
take you right back to your caveman days
when there was 20 people and you're all
your survival led to the survival of the
other 19 people so in the in my hardest
moments when I'm being criticized or
scrutinized or whatever for me that's
what it comes down to it's like keep my
circle super small focus on what I'm
doing
solution was Heavy kettlebell workouts
five minutes of cold therapy and three
grams of magic mushrooms yeah I heard
him say that when the spot fight yeah
correct yeah and that's I mean that's
his system he's and he's built up like a
social network as well to guard him from
you know news and articles and feedback
and stuff and he he's kind of retracted
from like social media as we know I
don't think he was a huge part of it and
I understand why what would you say you
know people from the outside looking in
at somebody that gets the accolades and
can hang with Prince William and make
breakfast in a pratt or whatever
what do people not realize about the
reality of the sort of scrutiny that
comes along with big platforms
especially mainstream platforms
they probably draw more on other
people's experiences than my own from
like interviewing people that have dealt
with like real thing because I didn't
consider myself to be really famous
um I think it's maybe just never maybe
there's a you probably experienced this
as well but there's like an ongoing
always on paranoia
which I think is just this numbing
paranoia in the background and also this
realization which is actually something
I learned from that one day by the way
where I was with Prince William we're
not friends he doesn't know who I am but
when I spent that day with him and I
posted I've just been with Prince
William we did this business business
initiative every single message I
received was amazing how is he amazing
is he nice amazing is he nice
amazing was he um sociable
it's this realization that everyone you
meet you're meeting everyone they know
um
[Music]
and that's that's a lot of pressure to
never have a bad day in public and it
actually gives me huge empathy for
someone like Justin Bieber who is
actually famous who goes out in public
on his worst days and tries to pick up a
can of milk and there's 74 Paparazzi
following him down the street and
thousands of fans literally outside his
front door in New York City and he's
literally going please can you not come
to my home I watched the video of him
going please can you not come to my home
please
and I go oh man
there's no way to live your life is it
that ambient anxiety this sort of sense
that you're being followed or that that
something could go wrong yeah uh yeah I
I get you with that and I'm I'm like I'm
nowhere near some of these people that
live that like a drake or even a Rogan
or a or a Justin Bieber I can't imagine
gonna teach you a lesson that I learned
from Ben Francis that didn't happen on
the podcast so we went for Nando's in
Manchester uh at gymshark lift La
weekend and he'd got his EA to text me
and say where it was going to be and
when or maybe he'd text me or whatever
um and I walk in and he sat down
reading something on his phone or
watching or whatever and I think his EA
and his EA's assistant or something has
sat on a different table he was just
there I sat down and we got talking for
the people who don't know Ben Francis is
the CEO of Jim shark and his net worth
is three times what Drake is worth
triple Drake
and then I thought
what would the experience have been like
if I tried to come to this Nando's with
Drake
and Drake wouldn't have got within two
miles yeah of this it would have been
mobbed he would have been swamped it
would have been chaos that would have
been you could even do this thing
there's like a law right where if a
normal person if like a super super
famous person turns up in a very crowded
place that they can be it's like
inciting violence vicariously through
fame or some and
it made me start to think about the
price that people pay for the wealth
that they have right Ben Francis has
managed to accumulate an awful lot of
wealth
and the felt price that he has to pay is
at the very least three times less than
Drake right because he doesn't have to
have security with him yeah his EA is
like five foot six hundred and hundred
pounds right the cost of in Ben's case
of not being as famous of the game he's
chosen to play which is business versus
I suppose that you know he's he's not
going to be get the public Accolade as
much he won't get access to as many cool
things because people aren't going to be
constantly looking for him he's not like
the the hot girl on your arm that you
can Trot out at some event he's very
rarely going to be sat front seat at a
Lakers game and it pan and go and he is
the CEO of gymshark Ben Francis for me
that's like perks he's not gonna get but
the cost he's going to encounter okay is
seven days a week he's got thousands of
people who are relying on him to pay
their mortgages let me know how many
people's Drake got relying on him
honestly on the business side of things
probably directly not that many Ben's
the CEO which means that when the
markets go down and when they go public
which I'm sure they'll go public when
that stock price dips as you've seen
from Matt molding at the Hutt group Matt
molding said to me again not a famous
not a drake right so it's the Sea of the
Hut group he said on stage actually at
the um an event we did at SoHo Farmhouse
he says sometimes at night I just lie on
that cold kitchen floor at 3am because
it's just cold and it's cooling me down
like the the chaos of what's going on in
that company means that he's lying at
3am on the kitchen floor because it's
just the coldest surface he can feel to
cool his body that that level of like
the hardest times of my life were
running business they weren't like
dealing with journalists it was like the
pressure of knowing payroll is tomorrow
and looking at the bank balance and
knowing there's nothing in there and
then looking up in the office and seeing
200 people in RH HQ that are joyous and
celebrating because they think it's
payday tomorrow and me knowing in my
head that I have 24 hours to persuade
Natalie at our bank to put money in our
account or else they're not getting paid
the pressure of that is much worse than
any article or getting mobbed at Nando's
and that's what Ben will be encountering
he'll do he does it with such Grace as a
lot of CEOs do but you've had about you
know Elon Musk talking about the pain of
trying to save Tesla and SpaceX being
out in the street on Christmas Eve like
crying he says it's the deepest pain
he's ever felt then he got that phone
call that someone was going to lend him
20 million to save Tesla and SpaceX it's
a different level of pain the different
game they're playing so all things in
life have a cost this is my conclusion
Drake's thing has a cost which is
privacy and all of those issues Ben's
thing has a cost as well which is even
thinking about it gives me goosebumps
because I know the feeling of like The
Angst of a business a ship yeah
um they're two different costs then it
goes back to what you said is with the
Mark Manson quote which which cost are
you willing to to incur which rewards
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