Video summary
In this episode, Alex Hormozi identifies staying in a good mood despite lacking external reasons to do so as the single greatest skill one can develop. He notes that while many people question those who are unhappy without cause, they rarely apply that same scrutiny to happiness; if being bad-mooded for no reason is acceptable, then choosing to be happy regardless of circumstances should also be possible. Hormozi admits his own progress in this area has been mediocre due to humanity's inherent negativity bias and psychological entropy, which make us far more adept at detecting threats than pleasures. He illustrates this with a personal example where the mundane joy of morning anticipation is instantly overshadowed by minor inconveniences like missing almond milk, highlighting how humans disproportionately blame external factors for their misery while catastrophizing risks in business or life decisions. To counteract these cognitive distortions, Hormozi introduces several mental frameworks that have proven effective in his career and personal growth. He advocates for the principle of inversion—attributed to Charlie Munger and Einstein—to grow a business by first identifying how it could be destroyed and then doing the opposite. This approach leverages the brain's superior threat-detection capabilities, turning potential pitfalls into creative opportunities for success. Furthermore, he suggests "playing it out" against vague fears rather than letting anxiety fester in resistance; by simulating worst-case scenarios step-by-step (e.g., losing money or having a podcast fail), one often realizes that survival is still possible and the upside remains significant enough to justify taking calculated risks with high potential returns. The conversation also explores neurobiological strategies for cultivating happiness, drawing on Rick Hansen's acronym HEAL: Have a positive experience, Enrich it by sitting with the sensation until it becomes part of you (going below the neck), Link it to other experiences to balance emotional volume, and Love yourself through self-acceptance. Hormozi emphasizes that simply noticing an event is insufficient; one must actively absorb the emotion rather than letting it wash away cognitively. He also references Ferris's concept that "the world rewards the specific ask," arguing that fear thrives in vagueness but dissipates when faced with concrete realities, encouraging listeners to move from abstract worries about asking someone out or starting a business to specific actions and outcomes. Ultimately, Hormozi concludes that while it is ideal to be happy without external triggers, becoming increasingly skilled at finding small things to appreciate remains a vital practice for well-being. He acknowledges the irony that the very skills required for professional success—such as obsessive risk assessment and threat detection—are often detrimental to personal happiness if not managed correctly. However, he maintains that even when life "kicks you in the dick," these challenges can serve as opportunities to buy the dip, leading to disproportionately large improvements once momentum is rebuilt. The episode ends with a reflection on how cultivating specific insights during difficult times allows for profound growth, reinforcing the idea that resilience and mood regulation are foundational skills applicable across all aspects of life.
Read the full video transcript
The single greatest skill you can
develop is the ability to stay in a good
mood in the absence of things to be in a
good mood about. I think that tweet has
been my theme for 2025. Um it's been
it's it's funny cuz that was the most
shared tweet I've ever had. Um and it
was it was like it's it was almost um
not the opposite of iron. It was
fitting, right? It was completely
fitting for the year. And it's been
because like this year I've had a just I
would say a series of unfortunate events
um that has occurred and it's really
tested my tools right tools in the tool
belt um for reframing reality so that I
can make my experience less you know
miserable. And so I thought about that.
It's like if I were if I were to boil
everything down um of all the skills
that you can learn if everything that we
do eventually becomes irrelevant, then
the single greatest skill that you can
develop is being in a great mood in the
absence of things to be in a great mood
about. And so one of the other frames on
this is most people don't question
someone who's in a bad mood. Like I'm
just in a bad mood. So it's like well if
you can be in a bad mood for no reason
it's like you might as well be in a good
mood for no reason because that one at
least serves you. And so I've been
trying to exercise like because there's
on one degree there's like let's count
things to be grateful for. On the other
side it's like
why do I have to have things to be
grateful for in order to be in a good
mood? Like why is trying to find things
a requirement of being in that mood?
Like can I not find things and still
choose to be in a good mood? Because
I've certainly not had things to be in a
bad mood about and been in a bad mood.
And so I've been trying to flex that
which is like sure we can find things to
be grateful for and when those things
pop up yes and of course it's a you know
it's a practice you get better at it but
like what if I can just be in a good
mood and so I've just tried to try to
break that that relationship between the
two because then it makes it contingent
on something that I can find. How
successful have you been at that?
Mediocre.
Well look I think it's a it's a a lovely
idea in isolation. Sure. uh in theory,
but I'm not convinced about how
effective it is in practice for the
reason that humans have a negativity
bias. You know, it's our psychological
entropy% and your ability to detect
things that are a risk to you
significantly better than your ability
to detect things that are just pleasant.
Like this morning, I texted you and I
was like, "Hey man, like I really love
the feeling I have of anticipation on a
morning before we do a podcast." That's
a normal, boring, mundane source of
pleasure to me. Yeah.
If I'm not really really training myself
to notice that. Yeah. I just it just
[ __ ] falls away with the fact that I
asked for almond milk and I bet this
would have been better with like whole
milk.
That's the thing that r that ruins the
day. And the thing is is you do notice
it though, right? You do notice that. Um
so I've had um one of my themes this
year has been focusing on moments
and on both the positive and the
negative. And so like when we think back
on if I think back on the last year,
right, I don't remember probably 95% of
the year like I you know I did the same
things and so it's like it just didn't
get recorded like nothing notable
happened. Um and so really like when we
think about a year we really just recall
a handful of moments and that's it. And
those moments in time are usually very
short. And so I've been trying to think
about um the bad, you know, seasons as
well maybe it wasn't a bad season. Maybe
I had five bad days or really five bad
moments that I then thought about for
the entire season and turned what would
have otherwise been 5 minutes times five
into an entirely bad year. And so it's
like, okay, well, if we can do that in
the negative, can we do in the positive,
which is, you know, obviously the thing
to to exercise? But to the point that
you said earlier about our our ability
to detect threat and risk at such a such
better accuracy than our ability to
detect good things, it's so interesting
because if you use that side of your
brain, um, not to derail us, but like I
think that has been one of the things
that's helped me a tremendous amount in
business because when I think about a
business and I want to grow it, for
example, I would think, okay, what are
all the things that can destroy this
business? And this is Charlie Mer. this
isn't me. Um, but basically he says
invert always invert. And Einstein said
that too. And it's because like you get
to use this this way stronger horsepower
engine of like how do I grow my
business? That's a you can obviously
think that way, but the alternative
would be like how would I absolutely
destroy this business in the fewest
possible moves? And then when you list
out those moves, you're like cool, now
let's do the opposite of that. And that
has been um honestly a lot of the some
of the sources of my greatest kind of
creative moments have come from these
apparently obvious things that would
kill us. Well, what if we did the even
more obvious thing and did the the
opposite of what would destroy us. Um
and it's worked. It's worked um better
than I deserve. So this is the problem.
Yeah. Uh you can be re rewarded
professionally for focusing on things
that you do not want to focus on
personally. And Ryan Long taught me
this. He was talking about how he
comedian, Canadian comedian, really
funny guy. Spends all of this time, you
know, dialing in these bits and
obsessing over how it could be better.
And then he says to himself, "Yeah, but
I don't want you to do that in your
relationships." No. Can you let that go
when it comes to the way that you show
up for your partner or your friends or
your body image or whatever? You don't
get to compartmentalize stuff like that.
And it is a very
unfortunate irony of the world that the
skill set you often need to become
successful in business is the one you
need to get rid of to be happy in your
life.
Yes. So I was I was thinking about what
you were saying earlier with regards to
risk and our ability to detect it. So
the other part of that that's been
really interesting is we also not only
do we detect more threats, we also
overemphasize how catastrophic they
could be. And the converse of that is we
rarely identify the upside. And when we
do, we typically underestimate the
upside. And I think this is something
that a lot of people don't talk about as
much. Um obviously I always have a
business, you know, hat on literally. Uh
and but I think about this because I
think this is where like you said it at
the very beginning that people complain
because they cannot accurately view
reality. And so if we tie that to this
concept, then it means that people will
disproportionately blame the universe
and then perceive significantly greater
risk for them asking a girl out,
starting a business, taking a loan, uh
you know, asking a stranger to buy
something, making a podcast and for fear
of what other people on the internet
will say or people who know them, right?
And so we we catastrophize this side,
but the flip side is and you hear this a
lot when people, you know, do make it
and what not. They're like, I never
dreamed it would be this big. Now, some
people are obsessive and like absolutely
have thought through everything. I fall
more on that side. Uh but uh on on the
other hand though, a lot of people do
get there and they're like, I never
thought it was going to be this big. And
it's because we typically just
underemphasize the upside, which is
where from the business perspective,
it's like that's where the alpha is.
That's where the outperformance exists.
where most people think, hey, this bet
uh it could go to zero. And you're like,
h I don't think it's going to go to
zero. But even if it did go to zero, I
have a 10x here. And so if I have a 50%
shot at a 10x and the other 50 is zero,
I should take that shot every single
time knowing that I'm going to be wrong
half the time, it still makes sense to
take. And so I think um people are not
good at making those riskadjusted return
bets um obviously financially, but even
in the very micro aspect of our lives.
And so the we talked earlier about uh
you know the cosmic irrelevance and the
frame of the veteran, but there's a
third frame that I think about a lot
which is I call it play it out. And so
it's like let's no let's let's sit in
there because again fear exists in the
vague not in the specific and in the
resistance. Yes. And so like when we
have these um these spec specificities
of like okay I'm going to start a p I
can't start a podcast like okay it's
this big vague thing but no like let's
play it out like let's see what actually
would happen. So, I'm going to upload
something and then people don't listen
to it.
Okay. Well, they didn't listen to it.
Okay. Well, then that's not a problem.
Okay. Let's say people let's say tons of
people listen to it, which I don't know
how that magically happens, but let's
say tons of people listen to it and they
all hate it. Okay. Immediately you have
this anxiety that No, no, but but let's
play it out. Like, what's happens next?
It's like, okay, is it going to change
what I eat? Is it going to change where
I sleep? Okay, let's say let's say I all
of a sudden I lose all the money that I
have. It's like, okay, well, I probably
have a bunch of people that if I really
needed to sleep on their couch or in a
spare bedroom, I could do that. Okay, so
I'm not really going to be homeless. And
if I really didn't have enough money for
food, I can go to a homeless shelter and
get food, right? So, it's like, wait, so
my worst case scenario is like I have
shelter and I have food and I'm still
breathing air. So, that's the downside.
And so, there's this catastrophizing
that we cuz we our brains are meant to
are meant to keep us alive. We literally
think if we fail, we die.
Like everyone will will ostracize us
from the group and we will be alone and
die. And so just actually playing it
out, not one step, but like two more
steps after that, you're like, "Okay, so
my actual downside risk is nothing, but
my upside is everything I've wanted. And
even if I even if I'm at 50% off on
that, it's still worth the shot." Have
you heard Ferris's idea, the world
rewards the specific ask and punishes
the vague wish?
I like it.
Very fairest and it's it's getting it's
getting to this point here which is fear
exists in the vag and it exists in the
resistance. Going back to the single
greatest skill you can develop is the
ability to stay in a great mood in the
absence of things to be in a great mood
about. There's again I think it's
fantastic in theory. I wonder how much
it works in practice. Both of us
everybody would love to be in a great
mood for no reason. Um, so I guess you
can perhaps try and cultivate I can try
and be positive when there's nothing to
be positive about. I would say that the
other neurobiologically informed
solution to this is to find increasingly
small things to be increasingly happy
about. So, huh, that was a really good
training session. Yeah, look, you know,
it was annoying because half of the
gym's under construction and I got some
dust on my shoes. Yeah, but
that was a good session. I really
enjoyed that. Um, Rick Hansen, who wrote
Hardwiring Happiness, is 20 25 years
old. Um, hardcore uh neuroscience guy,
dharma teacher, meditation expert, life
person. [ __ ] awesome intersection it
all. And um he has this wonderful
acronym of heal. Have a positive
experience. Mhm. Enrich it. And by
enrich it, he means sort of sit with it.
So you allow it to you actually notice
it. Absorb which is imagine that sinking
down and becoming a part of you. And
then the L is optional which is link. So
you can link it to a bad experience and
you can oscillate between the two to
help bring down the the um volume of a a
bad experience. So right now there's
nothing else I want to be doing right
now than having this conversation,
having a good experience. Huh. But that
just washes by you and then you think in
retrospect, oh, wasn't that that was
like a good thing at the time, but you
don't ever actually arrive at having a
good experience. So the enriched bit's
important. So I'm like, huh, this is
cool. Like I'm enjoying having this
conversation. Absorb imagining it
sinking down and becoming a part of you,
which is basically spending 30 seconds
to a minute letting it letting that
emotion sort of fill you out as opposed
to noticing it cognitively. Like
allowing it to go below the neck would
be a good way to put it. Okay, this is
going to go below the neck. This
sensation go, huh? Mhm. I'm actually
like people are going to watch this and
and it's going to make them happy. It's
going to give them insights about their
life and isn't that lovely? It's the
most obvious thing which is I mean this
is a pretty grand thing as things go.
It's certainly more grand than like I
had a [ __ ] nice coffee or something
like that. Um, so I wonder whether one
of the skills that you can develop in
the pursuit of becoming a person that's
in a great mood in the absence of things
to be in a great mood about is to become
increasingly proficient at finding
things to be in a great mood about. And
I'm aware that in your frame that still
makes it contingent on external, which
is going to be an issue. I'm still happy
to be in a good mood when there is
things to be a good mood about. For
sure. If you can become increasingly
skilled at finding things to be in a
good mood about, I get the sense,
especially if life's kicking you in the
dick, which it's done to both of us for
the last while. Um, and I also think
that it's a an interesting
comment realization from you, uh, given
that you've been kicked in the dick
because you think, huh, this is an
insight that you will only learn when
things aren't
ostensibly going well. Yeah. because
it's the sort of realization that you
get when inertia and momentum and
bravado and confidence and and uh upward
trajectory are all taken away from you
and you go ah I'm like I'm having to do
the budgeting equivalent like the the
mental equivalent of living on pennies
from a well-being perspective.
I want to say we talked about this four
podcasts ago this specific thing which
was that
I have this maybe it's sadistic is the
right word but like I do take some
sadistic pleasure
in or massochist I don't remember the
word is but when you when you enjoy your
own pain um
whenever I have these prolonged moments
of suffering that kind of break past
what I would consider the normal
variance of life right it's like no this
broke through the barrier of shitty. Um,
I do have this history of having
significantly larger improvements that
happen post dip, right? So, it's like we
kind of get the opportunity to buy the
dip uh for our own negative consequences
and I've I've bought the dip at almost
every time and it's rewarded me
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very much for tuning in. Ooh, beefy Alex
Homozy clip there. How about the full
meal available right here? Go on. I have
to come up with novel stuff to get you
to click on things. press it.