More Plates More Dates on Exposing Fitness Scams, Getting Women, and Living Forever

cumulatively across everything I am associated with we're in nine figures is 100 million plus I'm sure you guys are very familiar with successful people that hate their lives too it doesn't always overlap where the more Jack you are or the more successful you are equals happy you could live a very mediocre life and have a company that has nine figures dude if you pull this up you will find some wild so Derek from more plates more dates thank you so much for coming on the iced coffee Hour podcast means a lot no thanks for appr the way from Canada too you're honored you were just in Austin shooting your third ever podcast with Joe Rogan how nervous are you before going on Joe's podcast the first time when you have no idea what to expect it's pretty nerve-wracking because you don't know how elaborate the setup is if there's you know some sort of scripted questions that they have teed up for you like how it's going to go and it's very very chill nonchalant kind of just Bros talking and in the studio it's literally kind of like this it's just him and Jamie and nobody else there's no one else that's so cool I think that you know the more I don't know lowkey you can do it the better with Joe it's like obviously he's super easy to speak with and I don't know like we get along well so I would anytime he wants to have me on like I'd love to be on so that's amazing okay so I have a question just on over optimizing because I see a lot of people and they always suggest things in like a very dogmatic way like you need to optimize your testosterone regulation your sleep your nutrition your diet your medit supplements hydration noap you have this guy Brian Johnson that made an entire career out of optimizing basically every single thing that you can imagine for longevity sake he says he's going to live till he's like 150 or whatever his does he concretely stay he says he says he's like decreased aging by like 20 years or he was able to slow it down considerably so it's like now when I look at him obviously I I wonder the validity of that statement but who am I to say I'm not why you wonder though why do I wonder like what is it about it that makes you skeptical like when I think of just a healthy person I would say that is not the profile that I generally imagine he just looks really really pale I would say Jack Jack you can't say that Jack it's like the first thing that comes to mind and here's the we're all thinking it anyways uh is there a point in optimizing too much yeah I think a lot of the the the thing though is is a lot of the lwh hanging fruit stuff when you dump it into lifestyle diet training sleep like you could easily subcategorize it into just a few things but then within that you get can get so hypergranular where it's like infinite amount of optimization possible so I could say that yeah there are five things that do 90 plus% and within that that was just defining what is the actual thing that defines a good training regimen or a good sleep regimen or whatever and he definitely takes it to the you know absolute extreme that is to the point point where you wouldn't even be able to discern if what he is doing in some capacities is more harmful than helpful in my opinion because some of the stuff he does is like counterintuitive like he diets so aggressively that it shuts down his testosterone to some extent so now he has exogenous testosterone he applies to make up for the Lost hormones that he's not producing because he's in literal malnutrition state so like that's kind of paradoxical and not really like is that optimization at that point or you just biohacking yourself to be Jack while also depriving the yourself of nutrients you know when you add in three experimental drugs and then you're already on 72 other things and then you're also trying something new with this like trying to determine what was the thing that changed and how it influenced its um cross interactions with the other stuff you're already on it's kind of hard to know for certain like just the other day he was talking about how he's adding oral minoxidil into his regimen which is like a really outdated anti-hypertensive medication which is no longer used almost ever and has a blackbox warning meaning it's like the most prone to potentially lethal side effects and it was repurposed as a topical for hair loss when they found out that when people were taking it they were growing hair everywhere so they these people were using this blood pressure medication and just growing body hair and hair on their head and they were like huh if we repurpose this for a topical and you put on your head can you get the same effect turns out you can with less side effects and you keep it somewhat localized so some people though to take it to the extreme to get the maximum effect they will take the old like really outdated oral medication which is more effective but also proportionally more side effect ridden so is that just to keep the hair on his head minoxidil a lot of the stuff that he does to is not just about objective like Health metrics it's also about vanity I was wondering about like being so low body fat is that healthy to be in that St all the time he looks great but is like is that optimal to living to 150 yeah so that's that's the thing too is what is the goal and are you optimizing for that goal anyway because a lot of what he does is not necessarily in the extreme of longevity it's also very intertwined with I want to look good and be healthy simultaneously which is fine but it's like again some of these some of these treatments are not necessarily like Pro longevity like you try to argue that oral minoxidil will help you live to 150 it's probably not so you know what maybe he's able to get more attention looking the way he does with the sixpack ABS like look how healthy I am and then indirectly it's like if you look good and you look younger do you behave younger and have some sort of like health benefit that's a good point like I'm sure I think there is literature on that that does show that that is the case if you look better you will actually like be healthier yeah how much of that do you think is just genetics in terms of how long you're going to live because it seems like there are these communities in like Europe and Japan where the people live into their early hundreds and it seems pretty common and maybe that could be diet uh or or you know being stressfree or socializing more but how much of that do you think is genetic a lot of it so like there are people you could find who have all of the red flags of what you shouldn't do and will still outlive you even if you tried everything Brian Johnson does with that said you can obviously have your best shot at extending whatever it is that you're working with you have a certain hand of cards you're dealt and and what you do with that is dependent on all the factors that you impose upon yourself lifestyle diet Etc and yeah I would I think a lot of stuff could extend lifespan fairly significantly like when it comes to cardiovascular disease it's like the number one uh killer of people in the states right now like even more so than cancer and that is super preventable if you know what to look for in blood work and know how to get uh if you have a high quality doctor overseeing your care some of the stuff under that though like cancer and whatnot like some of this stuff is so nebulous to know if you're actually going to be fine when you're going to get it how you're going to get it how to avoid it all you can do is kind of optimize what you can and you know hope it's impactful on uh number of years but in general the thing that should be more focused on I think is the quality of life over quantity because there are certain things you could do to extend lifespan that aren't necessarily like making life fun or worth living because you could diet yourself into like a state of metabolic nothing almost and be like like for example a tiny old woman might outlive a really jacked you know big dude because she's you know like doesn't really require that much to sustain herself and has very little risk factors from different aspects um I don't know doesn't have a lot to impose on her body demands wise her organs don't need to support like way more calories or what have you but is that like a life you want to live where you're depriving yourself of food constantly doing these like three-day fasts I'm not saying they don't have validity it's just like you know it's very speculative what this stuff does at the end of the day and how much it extends lifespan all you can really do is things that we know work and are worth doing like having a good diet exercise sleep and I would say assessing your hormones biomarkers Etc to make sure stuff is at least as optimal as it could be and then if you want to address it further and go some degree in the biohacking kind of optimization Realm by manually intervening then you know that's a judgment to make once you've kind of like assessed things from an educated angle so actionable things for the viewer let's just say on average it's a 18 to 35 year old man what five or so things would you recommend that do 90% of the you get 90% of the results of all optimization sleeping eight hours a night and obviously you could get granular around that and how you would optimize that but let's just put the bucket of like you know sleep make it simple yeah yeah um assuming it's good and then we have resistance training is like very overlooked in terms of its importance in my opinion like having muscle and bone Integrity especially as you get into older age is like of critical importance um I would say just basic moving your body so getting 10,000 steps a day I think it's a pretty like concrete good cookie cutter recommendation for most people um and I like the idea of having like a goal that you can actually know you reached and feel good about you achieve something rather than some nebulous just like move around a lot because that's often what you hear is move you know move your body it's like okay well you know some people need a step track or whatever to see that they're actually hitting a number that gives them that feedback I did good today and I know that I kind of hit my basis for what I need to be doing um so I would say the resistance training steps sleep from a diet perspective not overeating the only way you would really dictate if that's actually happening if you're totally unaware of how to go about tracking your macronutrients is looking at the scale if you are eating and it is going up on a regular basis like you're eating too much and you need to lower your portions and or look at the quality of your food and kind of determine is there you know am I eating Ultra processed like calorie DSE hyper palatable foods and maybe I should reel back and assess what I'm eating why is it that I'm overweight right now and often like you can't outtrain a bad diet or if you do it's very difficult to and most won't very rare circumstances do I find people who are training so much that they could eat whatever it exists but they're outliers in general people need to just look at what they're eating and probably at least for a month or two meticulously track like every calorie that enters their mouth and if you're not gaining weight on average on a weekly basis then you know you're either at maintenance calories or if you're losing weight you're in a deficit and as long as you are at a healthy body composition you're not gaining weight unless your goal is to gain muscle then you know I think calorie energy balance in general is kind of like the fourth bucket I would say fifth is like getting Diagnostics to actually assess that what you're doing is moving you in the right direction too because there are certain genetic predispositions that no matter what you do lifestyle diet Etc you might be overlooking some significant uh problem that exists within your um ancestral you know like your parents grandparents whatever that is passed on to you that goes overlooked that you might want to you know get diagnostic oversight in order to make sure not only that the things you're doing on a regular basis are providing actionable feedback that your you know levels on all metrics are getting better and looking optimal for sustaining health and quality of life but also that you don't have some weird outlying genetic predisposition that you're totally unaware of that would have killed you in 15 years well I guess since we're on the topic of longevity did you know that 50% of businesses fail in the first 5 years well thanks to today's sponsor Shopify you'll have all of the tools to ensure that longevity is the only option for those una aware Shopify is the global e-commerce platform that's already transformed millions of businesses worldwide for example Shopify is has an endless list of Integrations third-party apps and flexible 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the episode does it matter what you eat as long as the C calories add up to a certain amount like eating 1500 calories worth of Oreos versus you know 1500 calories of steak does it matter if the calories are the same for sure yeah like the quality of food at the end of the day if you're in a deficit and eating less than your expending from a caloric standpoint you will lose weight but the proportion of weight lost will be suboptimal if you're eating just Oreos to achieve that so if you're even if you're training perfectly you're doing your cardio you're eating 1,500 calories of just McDonald's versus is high quality red meat complex carbs like whatever the difference in your body composition at the end of it will be pretty significant in that you will have more muscle you will have better health markers you'll feel better like there's a clear difference in terms of the outcome although you could still buy like scientifically you will lose weight it's just impossible to not if you're in a deficit of energy but a lot of systems in your body will be performing worse if you are eating the you know got it and how do you optimize your sleep I've seen some people say that you're supposed to do everything completely blacked out or you're supposed to have a light next to you that slowly wakes you up I found that for myself I do best with natural sunlight in the morning like despite what everyone says I like seeing the sound come up and I find that I sleep better waking up somewhat naturally what time do you wake up though I would say about 8 uh maybe 7 the earliest and the Sun is up at what time here I would say 5:30 6 give or take so I guess it depends on how your sleep tracks with the sun cuz it's like let's just say you're trying to wake up 4 hours after it comes up having that light entering your room and disrupting your sleep might not be ideal versus if you're actually waking up with it I would say that's pretty optimal if you could go to sleep as it's you know when it's dark and then waking up with it you're pretty much replicating what is an ideal circadian rhythm a lot of people don't have the luxury of that they work shift work like whatever it is in which case you have to get a little bit more uh I don't know granular and what what you're doing and yeah I think blackout blinds are great um depending on the person cuz it's also pretty hard to get up when it's blacked out in the room too and that's where like the natural light can be helpful yeah I like I would love and it's obviously unreasonable to ever suggest this to anyone but having a device that would blackout blinds that open slowly at like a certain time of day like based on when the sun is coming up or you know when you actually want to wake up cuz even right now a lot of people if you have a black out room me included I have to still have certain tactics sometimes to make sure I don't just lie there cuz when you wake up know if you don't have that natural light queuing you to be getting does that not exist something that just opens the shades get an automatic electronic something where you just push a button that's that's highly you want to you want it to adjust every day though based on the sun like the a lot of people would argue just go to bed on time but it's like it's not realistic for everyone obviously right it's insane that I'm saying this cuz it sounds so lazy but I'll just be honest honest I was thinking about buying some wood or a super long extendable stick cuz my blinds are probably 9 feet away from my bed where as soon as I wake up I just you know and I just like open it up a little bit cuz getting out of the bed when it is Pitch Black in your room even if it's 9:00 a.m. it's just harder yeah that's the opposite of lazy that's like intuitive [ __ ] right there but yeah getting to bed I think the timing of it is very important so your body adapt to cues especially when you're eating or exposure to sunlight so if you go to bed at 10: every day trying to go to bed at the same time every day and trying to wake up around the same time every day and ingraining this rhythm in your brain is like one of the most important things um I would say avoiding eating as close to bed as possible ideally would be worthwhile as well so some people they will eat you know midnight you know a late night snack or whatever or have a lot of their calories right before sleeping and your metabolism will be trying to essentially use up that food when you were in bed and trying to fall asleep and when you're trying to fall asleep to get into sleep you need to lower your body temperature a certain amount and if you are ingesting a bunch of calories and requiring your body to then like fire up metabolic processes to actually use it up like that's a heat generating process so you are actually impeding your ability to fall asleep when you e but then why is late night eating so popular willpower is diminished and it's like access it does feel really good to eat a big meal and then just go to bed afterwards depending it's hard for me to sleep when I eat before bed yeah I I actually cut off myat I've just noticed it as a pattern in my life it's extremely hard to fall asleep like there's definitely a individual component to it because like for example I wouldn't suggest going to bed super hungry either because then maybe you're too hungry to get you know stay asleep some people are different and that's where you kind of have to play around with it I'm not suggesting that everyone should do this but in general if you are eating the majority of your calories too close to bed it will be harder to get into deep sleep and stay asleep so I would just be mindful of that a lot of people I know try to stop eating like at least two to three hours out I want to get onto the story and how you acquired all of this knowledge and then how you leveraged this knowledge to build $1 100 million plus business which you've talked about on other podcasts as well but before we get into that there's one other random question that I have to ask which is Andrew Tate says oh if you're depressed you get a sixpack and then come back to me and tell me if you're still depressed we've talked about optimizing all these different facets of your life what are the actual results of optimizing these things aside from just vanity does it actually make a significant impact on your quality of life and internal metrics yeah like being lean is unquestionably good for health obviously that can be taken to the extreme with guys like Brian Johnson who calorie deprive themselves so aggressively that they then need to use exogenous hormones to maintain decent function um and a lot of bodybuilders do that too self- admittedly they'll get shredded and use exogenous steroids in order to maintain like high quality life you know uh strength in the gym muscle tissue to not have it deteriorate as they diet down and they'll be at you know like single digit body fat percentage and be shredded walking around and still functioning well because they're literally shooting the hormones into themselves so when you're doing it naturally though like there is a goldilock Zone whereby if you're too fat like it's not conducive to Optimal Health and if you're too lean it's also not conducive to Optimal Health and having a good happy medium is like uh unquestionably good in all metrics of Health essentially and mental health as well yeah yeah for sure especially like the impact has on brain fog too eating the diet that is conducive to like a lean body composition and you being metabolically flexible and using energy efficiently for actual recovery of tissue that is metabolically active rather than just like having your blood sugar stay elevated and then you're sitting in your chair and not actually using it up for anything um you know you get into these roller coasters of brain fog and a lot of people who are more metabolically fit don't experience that how did you learn all of this how do you get into this um probably the same way anyone in their Niche gets really deep so like in your Niche it just you know you get enthralled in it because it interests you to no end so just will sit there and in just assimilate information all day even if you weren't making content about it you probably were interested in it to begin with and that's kind of like I think where the best content creators come from are people who would have done it anyways uh I'm not suggesting that you need to do that necessarily but like for me you know from being a teenager I've been ingesting information from wherever I can to try and get as knowledgeable as I can about anything that interests me and I'm just the type of person that will sit there on the computer and just bury myself in papers and asking people anything I need to to learn what I can and um just always information seeking I just really I don't know mentally get rewarded from learning stuff I care about do you know why you're so interested in this specific field um I think because it affects like broadspectrum performance it's not just performance in the gym or in sports it's also mentally and it help it's super overlapping with entrepreneurial Endeavors as well so having a mentally dialed cognitive state is obviously incredibly conducive to high quality work um business Acumen performance in your businesses Etc like it all is overlapping and not just about health but also about performance trying to optimize all angles of that in order to not only Stave off disease maximize my performance but also be able to impart that information to friends and family who otherwise are like blindly going through the medical system something that is what I'm passionate about and kind of led me down the tele medicine route because in Canada especially you're kind of just told to um go home if you ask for anything and you're not like literally dying in front of them so what I find really interesting is I have a lot of friends that like have gone through medical school I have I've met quite a few different doctors and stuff like that and I like to ask what they teach them in medical school and a lot of the times it's not natural and organic things that will fix these issues that I feel like intuitively could be fixed like a lot of mental illnesses is fixed by fixed by giving like administering pills and medication and stuff like that where I feel like if we tried some more like organic routes first you'd probably yield better or at least more like foundational results perhaps a lot of I think depression is the one that's that's brought up a lot perhaps there's a for for some people it's an underlying condition of you know uh in the brain but for others it could be their environmental conditions or their situation that's really contributing to that so fixing whatever that issue is could solve their you know depression versus medication oh for sure like I know some of the most successful PE I'm sure you guys are very familiar with successful people that hate their lives too it doesn't always overlap where you know the more Jack you are or the more successful you are equals happy and often times there's like a honic treadmill where these people get happy and then they realize that wasn't what made them happy and they have this internal crisis about what actually is the meaning of life and then they get sent down this rabbit hole and they're less happy than somebody who's you know just living a average life objectively so um yeah like a lot of this stuff can be fixed naturally if they are a general practitioner they may only get a certain amount of time with exposure to knowledge about hormones or to what have you um and that could be to the detriment of being the person you want to defer to when you're trying to learn about a specific subsystem of the body so if I want to learn about how hormones work or um you know like uh reproductive health or testosterone like I don't necessarily want to talk to my family doc I might want to talk to an endocrinologist and that's why there Specialties where they lean into things heavier um but even then often times you are subject to whatever the current curriculum literature says which might be outdated for all we know so and often times you'll see um yeah people going to multiple Specialists and getting told things that even as a just person who consumes YouTube on a regular basis you might be like that sounds wrong I've heard you know totally contradictory advice from multiple people now I'm not saying use YouTube for your advice over an endocrinologist obviously but there's certainly some element of uh not every doctor knows everything and there are amazing doctors that do great things but just because you're credential that doesn't equal you know the most knowledgeable always so and yeah a lot of stuff can be fixed naturally but you know what before we go into that we have some really exciting news that we're 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and I'm just standing there doing nothing so so I might as well join then I made some progress relatively quickly and then I like damn like this is cool I'm actually seeing visual changes happening and then kind of it's called getting the iron bug you get bit by it yeah yeah yeah so I kind of got bit by the iron bug and then um it definitely superseded my uh I don't know interest in basketball to where I just kind of leaned into that and then continued thereafter was there a correlation with gaining muscle and attention from women or was it your confidence that was affected by that that actually caused better or more attention from woman the confidence component is definitely a huge variable that most people Overlook and actually I would say that for the first few years it was probably worse because I did a lot of like dirty bulking I'm sure you guys have heard of dirty bulking yeah so you just eat anything because you think that gaining weight equals good even at the expense of literally becoming fat so I gain like 60 PBS I think 60 pound how long I think my first three months I gained 40 to 50 that that's a lot how is that even possible it's possible trust me you were eating like8 9,000 car yeah well no I was just the thing is a lot of people don't actually count and when you start counting to the calorie you know a lot of times you realize you weren't ingesting as much as you thought or the opposite for certain Obe people that over estimate or whatever so or underestimate so for me I was counting meticulously and also slamming like Weight Gainer shakes and eating really garbage food like anything I could do even to the extent that if I threw up I would be like oh [ __ ] I got to go eat again to make up for that yeah it got intense so that wasn't normal but that was like so how did you dial back after that well eventually enough people tell you that are close to you and care about you that you're getting fat and you should probably tone a back of it and you know the response at the time it's like you don't understand dirty bulking this is how you do it so they're just telling you you're f it came probably after the first year is I did like a little bit of a diet down I think I bulked up again thereafter and then I dieted again it took probably like two or three cycles of bulking and cutting with the the next bulk not being as aggressive as the first before I kind of actually got to a body composition that looked like okay you're actually a guy who goes to the gym and works out so after that point though I had enough muscle where even when I bulked up a bit I was a lot more cognizant about how far I would take it and also you have enough muscle tissue underneath that you don't look as fat because you actually have the muscle in conjunction with the fat that you've gained to kind of like there a lot of people with six packs that are bodybuilders that are still holding quite a bit of body fat but they have so much muscle that kind of like they still look vascular so at what point though did that help you with women um a few years in uh I probably didn't even talk to women for the first two years I was in the gym too so I don't even know if you could count it as a fair comparison but after I got lean actually lean for the first time I started to kind of go to my comfort zone more and had the confidence to go up to chicks and talk to them and strike up conversations in my University walking around and I could have there was definitely times though where I had as good or more success when when I was objectively like perhaps a bit overweight too so a lot of it is just how you're speaking how confident you are how your interaction goes if there's chemistry stuff like that so some people definitely over optimize to the degree that they will not even talk to the opposite section unless they're like cutting so I don't suggest that because I've heard about that like they they they don't take off their shirt until they're like lean yeah post cut is that just motivation to well you definitely get body dysmorphia once to get into this Fitness industry especially where you think that if you don't have a six-pack equals I'm very fat and my is that just because you're around people and everyone has a six-pack so if you don't have one then you feel like it's not even that you're around them physically it's that you're looking at them on social media and this is the norm of expectation in Fitness like right now I'm actually relatively untrained I kind of like changed my priorities a bit in the past couple years to where I am in the gym far less far less than I want to be and I think it's optimal but it was just at the expense of a lot of business stuff that was taking off that I just at least at the time unjustifiably Justified it was worth not going to the gym as much which I'm trying to change this next year but like in that um domain it's kind of like when you get into the fitness industry you kind of get this assumption that everyone I don't know has uh you have this perception of what is considered good and is like very very skewed to where me now compared to a few years ago people be like you have a dad bod or you look out of shape it looks like you don't train anymore it's like to a Layman objectively that's an insane statement but to like a fitness industry guy that actually might be a reasonable answer it's like Derek you look like you don't even [ __ ] train anymore well that's the thing it's like if I go on YouTube uh uh shorts or Instagram reals or Tik Tok and stuff like that the only stuff that gets views and does well are people that are just absolutely shredded sort of sort of you disagree yeah like I don't even take my shirt off really for videos I don't even do training footage anymore I used to back in the day but lately I'm just like a talking head in videos in front of a wall but what I'm saying like maybe it's just my algorithm but like if the video genre is Fitness it's usually someone with an insane shredded body yeah but you also some of the most respected and successful people in the industry are individuals that don't fit the norm of the genetic enom cuz there you'd be surprised like some people like Sam suck for example yeah he's an outlier and obviously he's like SAU to hell but it's uh it not every guy who's that there are plenty of people way more jacked than him that don't get any attention and they post videos regularly like there's just a certain element that some people are very likable and post content that a lot of people relate to Andor just like the person to some you know significantly greater extent but there are plenty of body builders that are the most hyp extreme example of Jack shredded whatever who have objectively low followings and then some that are on the Other Extreme like Chris bum said is like the most popular fitness person ever probably at least by proportional metrics obviously like Arnold back in the day was huge but I mean like sheer engagement wise now he beats like aess celebrities so and like obviously you could argue okay well he's the best physique and that reinforces what I said but it's like there are guys that will have don't even post their physique that are in the industry that still do very very well too and have how is Sam so big he looks like a cloud he's big oh like big I thought you were asking like popularity wise I was like what what do you cloud and his YouTube channel like how's it okay no but he's a a massive guy H yeah genetics steroids adhering to his diet uh meticulously and hitting his calorie and protein goals like the guy's life is essenti revolved around going to the gym and eating his meals and his content is entirely essentially dictated by following him do those things so when it's your job to adhere to it like I would say it's a bit more likely that you will and then in addition to that he's also a genetic Phenom in that he hyper responds to what he's doing in terms of hormones is he is he open about his steroid use I don't think he's ever said anything about it I don't think so but say based on your knowledge you think oh 1 million perc I would bet like my net worth on it so with uh how could you tell well you just said he looks like a CL I know but like but you objectively you you have this this Vision that you could say this person is on steroids yeah what do you see that a normal person wouldn't I don't know how his brother trains but like first of all there's a pretty clear distinction between him and somebody who has very similar Gene gentics and they both train and one looks like a amateur level or almost I don't know some people would argue that he's like borderline low level Pro bodybuilder within a couple years and his brother looks like a normal guy still maybe his brother just started and this is an unfair comparison but at the end of the day the progression he's made from what looked like a decent natural physique was so rapid that it would be unexplainable to gain that much tissue naturally it's just physically impossible so having gone to the gym for a certain amount of time and then to explode and gain 50 pounds of muscle thereafter it's just not a physiologic thing that could occur yeah I couldn't that's probably the best explanation obviously you could look at them and objectively say this physique is not natural because it is x amount of pounds higher than what most Naturals can achieve who are at the highest level of you know tested sport or whatever like there's a lot of metrics you could look to but also it's just easy to see his progress is unnatural do you think Sam has a responsibility to be open about about his steroid usage with his platform not really I don't know like the guy I think just by existing will encourage hormone use unfortunately and then some people will criticize him for that probably unfairly so because he's just a guy who makes content and wants to do what he does and maybe he competes one day maybe he doesn't but it's like I don't think just because you're influential and look great and take [ __ ] equals you need to like tell everyone everything I think you have a duty to not lie to their faces about it probably but or to monetize in a way that is leveraging your like fake natural status in order to get rich off of products that are you know promising things that are just untrue but above and beyond that like I don't necessarily think he has to sit down and make a video and say yep as you guys probably guessed I'm a natural and like here's why you shouldn't do it and blah blah blah so it's like people got to kind of make their own decisions and take some responsibility and I'm sure he did the same thing when he sat down there was one day where Sam Su like sat down at as a natural and looked at probably YouTube videos dug into some whatever research may be asked some friends like is it worth it if I do this like what am I trying to get out of it he had that assessment too and he was probably inspired by someone else and should that guy have not been on social media being jacked and sick looking I don't know you know did that guy have a responsibility to tell Sam he would have died if he took gear or something I don't know that's kind of a you know speculative thing so let's talk a little bit about your businesses you have your clinic and you have your business I think it's the supplement business does like $100 million or so a year at least my my first million they guessed didn't disagree 6 to8 million a month and you agreed cumulatively across everything I am associated with we're in what is nine figures is 100 million plus right so that's territory but I'm not going to get like hypers specific on which businesses do what and whatever how do you decide to turn this into a business um which one the like my channel even or what do you mean I guess everything even the supplements the your channel like how do you decide to monetize your interest in Fitness by the way the thing I should preface which I see a lot of people don't do is when you say 100 million no one talks about net numbers and like let's not like a lot of times I see uh maybe business owners who are incentivized to actually show how well they're doing because they're part of some entrepreneurial like upsell thing like these numbers are not necessarily like the owner equals like this you don't keep this money like a lot of it's reinvested to build the businesses and if you're you said 50 to 100 employees as well per company yeah like I'm trying to I just want to add a preface because a lot of people see these big numbers especially as headlines and they will very much take and run with that some unrealistic expectation of how business works and even if this is a goal you are considering pursuing like understand that just these numbers don't mean your take-home is some like like you could live a very mediocre life and have like a company that is nine figures if depending on what your goal is with it so just putting that out there um but anyways the way transitioning into this was um a lot about my content and what I would promote or give education about to begin with so when I started making content about uh nutrition supplementation pharmacology hormone optimization like it was very very Centric around these things to begin with and often times reviewing other companies that are you know at the Cutting Edge or doing things that I think are bad or good and giving my opinions um often times I would have affiliate relationships too where I would have here you know use my affiliate code to get you know Kickback a commission support the channel and using this product that I think is the best of this specific industry and after a while once you build up enough funds I'm sure similar to you you made some YouTube ad Revenue you've made some affiliate commissions you've had some sponsorships and it's like okay well do I want to build equity for this other company now or do I want to go like pivot into my own thing and is the B with allocation of time worthwhile to actually lean into it or am I just taking away from my bread and butter and making that kind of calculation for me at least on my three main businesses which is Gorilla mind mer tele medicine and intelligence shop those three things in particular I feel like I have enough of a expertise in and care enough about personally to lean into as worth my time allocation so like in particular the gorilla mind company is dietary supplements typically oriented around sports performance and energy drinks more recently New Tropics cognitive enhancement that's kind of like the main products we offer and then mer health is the tele medicine diagnostic side of things not a traditional trt Clinic a lot of people title these clinics as trt clinics and justifiably so for many of them but we pride ourselves in being like diagnostic oversight and optimizing Health before looking at any of these other things so that's worth mentioning because I think it's often these companies get lumped into this kind of like narrow kind of like bit more sketchy territory but is a preventative medicine platform and then third is intelligent shop which is like men's hair loss prevention in particular and the pharmacology around that is something I've made tons of content on and it's something I found very very interesting so making products that actually work centered around that and then also something a lot of people don't know is I used to make fragrance reviews I am just like a fragrance connoisseur so I would get girls to rate fragrances go to University campus girls to rate fragrances yeah if you look at some of my old videos I would walk around University campuses and be like what do you think of this one compared to this one R it out of 10 which one's more sexy etc etc do you put like one on one armpit and the other one on the other no I spray test strips oh okay what are you doing I'm just scar how do you get like a girl to AB test it you know test strips yeah so they it would be like a blind test CU they don't see the bottle and it's just on a strip and they would give their opinion and then these like fragrance battles get endless views like there's no time where as somebody who's into fragrances you will not get views by getting attractive women to rates even fragrances that have existed for decades I don't know why it's just like even me I like watch I want to go back I'm weird I like the smell of gasoline and cigarettes I don't know why so you would love Fahrenheit by Dior it is a very polarizing fragrance that only somebody who actually likes what you just said so Random Sharpies as well Sharpies I love Sharpies yeah what the smell when you start up a car like that weird sort of like I don't know it's a smell like I like that yeah dude especially if you're like uh if you can pull it off cuz again there's a certain scent that needs to be congruent with like you as a person to really not just come across as why do you smell like a diesel engine or something but like if you can pull it off it's a pretty sick scent but um anyway so you should check that out but for me I made all these reviews and I always thought you know it'd be sick if one day I had my own fragrances so this intelligent shop company is kind of like a miscellaneous self-care company but it's hair loss and hair loss prevention oriented products it also has skin care and then fragrances that I develop and I think we're launching our seventh fragrance this month so what are some of the Crown winners of the fragrance AB test that you did on college campuses o um from existing Brands things that I could recommend um Spice Bomb is a really good one by Victor and Ralf for winter and fall that one consistently won well why just for winter and fall certain fragrance have certain notes that are more conducive to be appealing in warmer or colder weather and some actually stink almost when you're having it in the wrong setting or might be might be overwhelming for example if you had like a really boozy sexy smelling fragrance in a date setting would be nice but in the office would be quite off-putting so having something oriented for what you're doing or if you're in the gym you wouldn't wear like diesel engine fragrance you know people like what the hell is this guy doing so like there you would want to smell like you just came out of the shower at most if anything so like stuff like that and having contextual situations that are conducive to like okay this one's for this this one's for this that's kind of like what we did and um yeah some of the best ones off the top of my head a really good cost effective one I would say if people are looking for a summer fragrance that's pretty guaranteed to be a hit with women is Nautica Voyage I think it's the bestselling fragrance on Amazon it's like 17 bucks for 100 milliliters and it's quite it's quite good A lot of people have it so it's common but it's reliable on a budget for sure ior Savage Savage Savage I feel like I've heard you know Jeremy fragrance dude that guy is a character that's like I think that's like his favorite by the way he's probably the first one he's not maybe he's not the first but he's one of the first people that inspired like the whole fragrance battle thing so some of his old videos are not as much as newer videos but his older ones are like really entertaining well done I wish he would go back to that style but he's uh been consumed by the Tik Tok dopamine circuitry unfortunately but for that one Sage is like one of the most widely appreciated fragrances but to the detriment that it's not unique whatsoever so you will almost certainly smell like some chick's ex-boyfriend if you wear it I want to talk about supplements cuz we had Dr Mike on the podcast and he said the supplement industry is ripe with scams basically like a lot of supplements are not regulated and you could kind of just like package anything into anything and then sell it as anything yeah I think a lot of the claims could not be tested and because they're supplements or they're all natural uh there's very little regulation with that so people are trying to Pedal anything because there's such high margins on supplements what supplements do you think are actually valid and like like multiv vitamins for example I feel like everyone takes multivitamins is that something that people should be incorporating into their diet and what supplements should people be wary of it very much depends on your individual situation but I want to try and be as general as possible because I could say for a multi your diet could cover your bases for all I know a lot of people don't need it but it's good insurance kind of it's almost like an insurance policy type supplement which I think is worthwhile for a lot of people but you don't necessarily need it for Optimal Health fortunately a lot of the vitamins in it won't actually kind of like accumulate you'll just urinate out the excess and you kind of know at least you're topping up what you needed and then the rest would kind of not stick around and cause harm as much but a lot of people are deficient in vitamin D let's like pretty damn common nowadays so I think that's a pretty impactful one how do you know if you're deficient in vitamin D okay so you would check your vitamin D in a blood test and it would show you are either it's shocking how are there symptoms to that though or would you just not know low testosterone is one of them um mood emotional stability even ability to build muscle in some Capac like a lot of stuff is impacted by vitamin D it's actually a hormone technically like it's a steroid hormone even though it's called a vitamin yeah so it's pretty impactful on hormone systems in the body and being deficient in it it's like one of the few things that not not one of the few things but one of the most impactful things that if you're deficient it will markedly decrease your testosterone levels and also your response to that testosterone as well so people do notice a big difference we had Ty Lopez on the podcast and he has a vitamin D tracker based on the sun and like where he is on the world so he could go outside and say here I only need 10 minutes but over there I need an hour in the sun to get that vitamin D that sounds super fishy like almost more fishy than the age so I yeah I don't know who it does it matter if you're getting Vitamin D from the Sun or like a supplement or is vitamin D vitamin D like I would say in general things you can get naturally are better and they go through an actual regulating framework when you're taking stuff naturally like for example in Foods it'll have like co-actors and different things that support absorption or what have you that may be in a supplement getting like a mega do in one shot might not be the optimal way to do it when it comes to Vitamin D it kind of it's tough because often times the way you ended up deficient to begin with is because your environment is not conducive to a good vitamin D level unless you are intentionally depriving yourself of sunlight at which point it's kind of like just get outside more and then if you're still deficient like I don't know like it's also an efficiency thing too do I want to sit outside for how long versus you know like for me I think a lot of people would benefit from a supplement but I also think if you can get it naturally like it's probably a superior although I couldn't point to any literature that shows like an AB test of it um so yeah that's a super impactful one um some other things magnesium a lot of people are super deficient in magnesium and that's super impactful on testosterone levels too among other things zinc impactful on testosterone a lot of people are deficient especially people who are avoiding red meat purposefully I think beef liver is actually great as like ironic that the liver King is like gets a lot of scrutiny one of the things he did say that is worthwhile I think is liver on a regular basis it's like one of the most Coline D vitamin A dents um nutrient wrench Foods in general it's like Nature's multivitamin is what they call it and I think that product despite tasting horrendous if you can stomach it you only need an ounce every couple days even to hit a lot of your micronutrient needs and if you think it tastes bad you could actually take a desiccated like beef liver supplement that could be potentially impactful so I think that's you know interesting to look at for sure um in general I would say magnesium um vitamin D are two that I see very prominently problematic that will actually notably impact perceived quality of life sleep hormone production among a myriad of other things so we can go down the rabbit hole as much as you want but that's like off the top my head a couple things how much liver do you eat an ounce a day unless I'm traveling or I just don't want to eat it which is relatively frequent so sometimes I I'll use a supplement myself sometimes so you're traveling right now you're just in Austin now you're here in Vegas you're here for like a week and a half you said yep how are you getting liver while you're here yeah I just take six capsules a day I'm good oh you take capsules yeah yeah okay got it okay so yeah I don't love the taste of it but I try to eat it when I can and what about vegetarianism one of my very close friends is a vegetarian he has been for like probably five years at this point would you say that that's a diet that you have to be extremely cautious if you're subscribing to to like making sure that you're getting every available nutrient do you think that objectively you're probably healthier if you're eating Animal product I think think that you will undoubtedly need to supplement with a few more things than the normal person to hit your nutrient needs for sure bioavailable B vitamins having high quality protein cuz even if you get a gram of protein on a nutrition label for certain like vegetarian based products is not necessarily the same equivalent impact on protein synthesis rates as like uh meat derived red meat derived so um you need to be a bit more knowledgeable I would say I don't think it's impossible to thrive on a vegetarian Di diet I just think you need to be a bit more mindful of intake of certain things like where you getting your creatine from where you getting your carnitine from or you getting your bioavailable B vitamins and sometimes supplementation is warranted to actually be able to adhere to the diet and still get the upside of these uh vitamins and minerals and whatnot like Brian Johnson like good luck getting all your stuff without supplements are there any ingredients that people should outright avoid like Ultra processed stuff in general is typically going to be you know stripped of nutrients and or not that as helpful as the caloric equivalent could be of something that is like I don't know natural quote unquote so often times I try to get my you know micronutrients from food when I can like actually eating liver versus taking it in a supplement but it kind of depends on your workload too like exercise wise I could say you know don't eat as much sugar because you're sedentary for example I don't know how much sugar you need to actually support your uh demands so it's like if you are somebody who's hardly going to the gym or you're work workouts are very very minimally intensive and don't require that much carbohydrate to support them maybe you can get away with less and you're just unnecessarily pounding sugar versus some other guy might literally need to have like shakes around their workout that are filled with you know sugar to help support it and that's like the hyp extreme bodybuilder but it depends on the person um I'm sure there are a lot of things that I am just not thinking of though that are really obvious loow hanging fruit things to avoid sure what are your thoughts on fasting I think that it is helpful for um sustainability of caloric adherence for a lot of people even for me personally like I will wake up and try to not eat for as close to Six to 8 hours as possible typically depending on what I'm doing if I'm going to the gym that day maybe it differs but in general that approach for me has resulted in ability to eat the majority of my food later in the day not so close to bed that it impacts my sleep cuz again you're back loging your calories that could be problematic too if you wait until right before bed but for me I am most mentally clear when I'm not eating so if I could just work through hunger and use like minor tactics to kind of push my way through um whether that's coffee you know uh chewing gum sometimes you know energy drink here and there yeah I find the same thing in the morning if I don't eat and I just have coffee I find myself being a lot sharper I could think quicker as soon as I eat for whatever reason even if it's small something I slow down even 10% but still that adds up over the course of a year yeah so I've always just I think I think the validity of it is uh it's certainly there for entrepreneurs who want to maintain as sharp of a window of work as possible um when it comes to actual diet outcomes some people really benefit from it because when they try and split their meals out equally over oh I'm going to try the traditional four or five or even six meals a day of equal split everything they aren't able to feel satisfied off small portions but then some people like when you look to literature you'll often find that it doesn't play out for the population that they're assessing relative to what another guy might find his best for them so you almost need to experiment a bit and fortunately with diet it's not like you're experimenting with a drug necessarily that might screw you up like if you try fasting intermittent fasting for a couple weeks and you don't like it you know like you tried it and it wasn't a big deal you can go back to trying something else or going back to what worked for you the best before so I think it's worth everyone kind of experimenting but I've definitely seen some super impactful um situations where people went from a traditional I need to eat right when I wake up to stretching their eating windows and then getting more work done being more productive also being able to eat less overall per day because they feel like a big meal is harder to overeat on than like little small tiny portions so it depends on the person though for sure and it's not necessarily the most ideal for building muscle having all your protein like shoved into one or two meals got it what's your recommendation for hair loss um it depends what stage you're at and how aggressive you want to be because at the end of the day unfortunately there is uh not really anything that exists that's super impactful that isn't manipulating hormone systems so when it comes to hair loss prevention the best thing you can do is get in front of it before it's like C medically perceivable so for me it was not just accelerated by uh anabolic steroids when I was younger but in addition to that once you actually visually see it in the mirror like you have 100,000 plus minus whatever depending on ethnicity or whatever um uh hair follicles on your head and Visually if you pull one out you don't notice any difference in the mirror obviously but over time the miniaturization of these follicles will create a visual perception that becomes atically significant after years of it happening to where all of a sudden one day you know in downlighting or a picture or whatever you start to notice oh I can see my scalp and I couldn't see it before oh my I didn't even notice this was happening and usually it's like a pretty startling moment when people realize like oh [ __ ] I actually am prone to hair loss and it's happening but by then you've already lost like 20 30 plus perc of your hair and often times people will give you bad feedback you'll be like do you think I'm losing hair'll be like no it looks fine it's like no dude you are not fine it has been happening insidiously this whole time so a reality check sometimes is that you know recession isn't just indicative of oh it's what happens to adults and it's supposed to like there are people like Ronald Reagan who end up at 80 n what whatever he lived to and had perfect hairline now I'm not saying he used drugs to do it he's obviously a genetic freak but at the end of the day if you intervene early enough you could prevent you getting to that point in the time frame that you would have otherwise if not saved it off entirely so so getting in front of it is so much better than trying to make backr cuz trying to recover dead zones on your scalp especially is like very difficult even with drugs so how do you get in front of it what's your recommendation to someone who's probably in their 20s maybe starting to notice this what we okay let's use me for an example here I brought this up to Graham he's like no no you're totally fine he did what you just said obviously I like I'll show off my hair right so see how like at the corner see how it's coming up a little bit right here coming up a little bit right here I'm mostly fine like I I feel like so confident with my hair but I'm very worried that I will eventually lose it that for me is like horrifying and when I did start to notice like in the corners right here like it coming up a little bit it was like startling like you said it was shocking with you too if you want to know if you're prone rather than getting on drugs that you might be worried about you could take good pictures in track over time and at the first sign of further recession that could be your sign okay now I start taking it cuz you could still like barely have any more loss and get in front of it before it's so bad that it's obvious cuz for you like you're pretty good right now so if it were me and I was like actually averse to taking drugs I would take a picture and find some Landmark on your scalp that you could use as a reference point of recession and then use that as a gauge for as you get older is that you know taking progress pictures once a month or something is that Landmark are you getting more recessed in that area relative to whatever thing you use as Landmark often people will find like a freckle or something something you should be able to use to figure it out and at that point if you're further receding at some rate that is you know noticeable at all like you know that you're on your way there at you know a significant enough Pace that it's going to be okay well when I'm 30 plus or however old you'll be able to see it probably so do I care enough at that point to get in front of it with drugs knowing that it's happening CU some people could hypothetically get on drugs and maybe not have needed to the likelihood is low because most people will end up with some degree of hair loss it's just to what significance level will be dictated by genetics so like Ronald Reagan didn't even need to take anything almost certainly I guarantee almost guarantee he was not on hair loss prevention drugs Alex horos dude hairline it like goes like down it's like he's got like maybe he's got a negative hairline yeah and he'll be like what do you do and he'll be like nothing yeah he' be like yeah he'll be like what a ridiculous question what do you mean your hair's perfect you [ __ ] so yeah he doesn't uh he doesn't do anything so that's genetics for example but again with him you don't actually know that I don't know what his dad looks like maybe one day all of a sudden you know the switch flips because there are epigenetics that could you know at some point the rate of Aging or his just the process of Aging could trigger certain things that otherwise were not problematic so you could end up in a state of accelerated energenic alipa I think that's actually a thing where I couldn't point to literature that proves it but it seems like at some point some people do experience like acceleration or deceleration of certain things in the body depending on environmental conditions what have you but it's also I think genes can turn on and off depending on certain circumstances and certain switches could flip in a way that all of a sudden now it's like now it's started for him is that why they say stress exaggerates hair loss stress is more shedding so it's called telen effluvium and there's a difference between shedding and actual hair loss because when you Shed from stress often times you will see it come out in clumps in areas that are localized not necessarily like symmetrically all the way across your scalp so androgenic alopecia you'll see like a pattern of recession that is very indicative of like DHT affecting it versus if you had just like a bout of horrendous stress like for example I had a friend who when he was trying to become a firefighter he was getting hazed like crazy and he literally had like a patch fall out of the side of his head and it grew back white and eventually it came back but like that's an example of alip Tia caused by stress like it was not a uniform recession pattern that is indicative of androgens so people have to remember there's a difference between hair loss and androgenic alopecia which is like Androgen induced alopecia alopecia being hair loss so to in get in front of androgenic alopecia which is the thing most guys deal with that is typically hormonal so in your case I would use you know tracking to actually decide if you want to take drugs or not or if it's even necessary and then at that point if it still happening you're like okay what I want to get in front of it now how do I do it the number one thing that is the most impactful is something called finasteride sure you guys have heard of it inhibits the production of something called DHT which is the primary hormone that dictates masculine characteristics like in adolescence the thing that will differentiate and mature you as a male is DHT the most if you don't have any DHT you will end up with a micropenis an array of features that are not representative of like a fully grown male so DHT is like the opposite hormone to estrogen essentially and testosterone's like somewhat not in the middle but it's like on the spectrum of Androgen versus estrogen feminine vers mass and you can like you see this all the time in bodybuilding or in transitioning individuals manual manipulation of this that shows that even in adulthood people who are manually use using these hormones can literally like flip-flop genders essentially because it's like there's nothing really differentiating somebody other than like anatomically to some extent but also in adolescence if you expose some girl to hyper androgenic state with exogenous hormones you could literally make her seem like a dude to any objective metric of somebody seeing her they' be like that's 100% a guy even though she might not be so like these things can be manipulated to where if you take finasteride this hormone DHT really has no impact on muscle growth strength the thing it mainly dictates is sebum production which is like oil in the skin essentially um prostate size um it inhibits estrogen's activities in some tissues it does it does things that are important but it's more primarily an adolescence where you don't want to be inhibiting it because you will end up in a you may end up in a state of like hinder development essentially to say the least but in adulthood when you take it you could prevent the further miniaturization of hair follicles key note being the further miniaturization you're not going to necessarily reverse miniaturization you might get some regrowth as you inhibit the process of Expediting itself But ultimately once you implement this blockade of hormone essentially it becomes far more difficult to miniaturize at all because even in studies we'll see individuals with deficiencies and the enzyme that makes this hormone no temporal recession at all less body hair like everything about them is slightly less masculine by metrics of like male secondary sexual characteristics but they never lose their hair so it's like if you can replicate at that to some extent that is non- impactful from a side effect context you can kind of replicate that state to some extent in adulthood after you fully developed and that so isn't that just about waiting until you're already fully developed to start finast ride yeah so like ideally you would wait until you're a full- grown adult and then you would get on it if you need it um the problem is that it's not a side effect free drug and some people end up with pretty significant issues Al but a minority they're a very outspoken minority and justifiably so because they have some pretty significant issues sometimes no one should ever say like mindly this is 100% safe you will be fine the likelihood is high you'll have no issues like objectively by data it's like very unlikely of issues but there is a possibility so if you have none of the negative side effects is there anything just bad about putting in some manufactured thing into your system like a synthetic drug sure or just like just finasteride in general like if the studies are showing the data is showing that the likelihood of some negative byproduct to take this thing the negative symptom is so small and you don't get any of those then would you say it's fine if you want to just take your chances yeah if you have no side effects for sure get on that [ __ ] I'm on duas ride which is like the even more aggressive format of finastra that inhibits almost all of my DHT like my hormone levels on paper look like a girl for DHD and yet I'm sitting here with a masculine voice my brain's working well at least to date knock on wood uh muscle is fine like nothing is perceivably wrong that would justify me coming off and a lot of people are similar in that aspect so I'm not say that I'm the you know reference case whatsoever but just giving like an anecdote of even in the hyper extreme some people use dast ride too which is like an even more aggressive drug and have no issues there's like one guy who has a registered IQ that's like second best on the planet and he's been on dast ride for decades not to say that's a justification for it but you know it's good to see both sides of the coin because you often hear the horror stories the thing with the internet the most outspoken people are not the people who take drugs and get results and just like don't care about it anymore it's people who tried something and had a horrendous outcome and want to warn the world about it which is fine and I think they should but when you take something like for example if you took Tylenol and it got rid of your headache are you going to go on Reddit and be like took Tylenol it was great you know got rid of my headache of course not so with hair loss a lot of guys they're like oh I heard I was should take finra I saw an ad on Philip def Franco's show for you know keeps or something I'm going to just jump on it they get on it stops their hair loss and you never hear from them again and they never post about it because why would they but then people who take it the you know whatever percent of people and they have some either some minor issue or a significant issue that is like very noticeable they're on the internet [ __ ] talking about it how do I fix it talking with other people your experience was this oh this happened to me and I get it but at the same time I think it's almost like the positive results are under represented yeah anecdotally I've talked to a lot of people who are on finast ride and from everyone that I've talked to only one person said they knew of someone who had negative effects and that stopped as soon as they stopped taking it and part of the issue too is now with the Internet it's so well known this stuff that a lot of people Placebo themselves into side effects yeah so I'm not to say that the side effects aren't real I know of people that I don't think are just Placebo that have pretty significant issues but a lot of it is like people do just fine and a lot of people who do have issues they're like I think something's I think my erection quality is worse than it was but I'm not really sure I'm like is it really like if you I have benchmarks yeah take the photo mon they got to do the Brian Johnson thing where they like measure their pen every night but what about red light therapy uh Jack and I were actually at the gym this was maybe two months ago and the guy from Iris store came up to me and said I'd love to give you the helmet just try it out uh we're not going to ask anything of you I just want to give this to you let us know what you think and so I've been trying it but it's too early to tell yeah for me what I have noticed is almost nothing so I have the most expensive custom version of that that helmet made by a guy who literally all he does is man sit at home and create these with actual there's like a difference between the lasers that are impactful on actually achieving the outcome you want versus like as far as I know there's LEDs and lasers and what you want to get is as dense of a concentration of these certain lasers that impact the metrics of hair growth that you're trying to get out of it and some of it is like the iror stuff a lot of it is margin consideration oriented cuz it's like they have to market the [ __ ] of this thing and they can't afford the best most intensive device possible plus all the marketing that goes into selling it plus maintain the margin and hair growth is such a slow and kind of like ambiguous process that it's very easy to even get Placebo into thinking it's working because you had a good hair day or whatever but most people who use it don't sustain therapy so there's like a copout even where you probably didn't use it properly and then in addition to that it's not guaranteed to work for everyone is what they'll maybe assert at best but in general I have never seen anybody in my life and I've looked into this [ __ ] to no end have such a significant result that it like completely averted the necessity to use actual therapies that move the needle so it was typically an adjunct that some people claim might have helped to some extent but to put into perspective like this stuff very I spent a significant amount of time researching it and spending my own money on things that I wanted to see how well they worked and like I spent I don't know like $2,000 on some device that was custom made with the most dense concentration of lasers you could possibly get legally and I didn't notice anything now did I use it long enough did I do it properly you know if I didn't I don't think I would have seen if I continued like even it was just annoying to use too like that's a significant hindrance for me to add anything to my routine that is different now it's not easy to work when I have this thing on my head at least I found see I put on before going to bed or watching some TV or something like that I put on 12 minutes I'm going to give it six months okay see what happens I think a maybe like a month into it so we'll see yeah the iris store if you don't have like an actual metric to go by to it's very difficult to know that it worked or not CU there is like a um hair hair analysis you could do to actually see per square centimeter like how many hairs are there versus before and after and that's how they'll assess treatment validity clinically and with this stuff it's like you're just going to go objectively by what your hair looks like in the mirror and the likely outcome is you might be like I don't know it might have helped might have not and it's like for something to take up like however many minutes of your life on a day every other day or daily basis it's like is that worth 1% of results typically I would say no and that's even me who cares about this stuff a lot sure yeah that's fair what do you think the obsession is it seems in social media with testosterone yeah like I don't know what spurred it for sure like ultimately it is the hormone that dictates muscle growth potential relative to your response to it so I could see why people would focus on it but it's interesting that it gets the hype it does because there are other hormones that are just as impactful in their own unique ways like estrogen or whatever and no one really talks about those but yeah testosterone is um if you're low it'll you know mess with your life pretty significantly you'll have a harder time building muscle libido down Etc so seems like I've had a lot of friends too that have all recently gotten tested and they're like oh my gosh I had no idea my testosterone was this low I you know it explains so much so I went and got tested and I thought oh man like maybe if my motivation isn't as good I'm not putting on as much muscle in the gym like maybe I have low testosterone then I was also concerned that I've never been able to grow a beard and I was thinking oh crap like I for sure have low testosterone it came back like 800 and something like on the really high end and so then I was like well you know that doesn't explain I can't grow a beard is that just genetic yeah so jeans will dictate often how your predisposition to certain things are like Asians you will typically never see with thick body hair do they all have low test no you know some of them it's just the way their skin I could I could probably find the answer if I dug in and found like what is it about them that causes less uh you know proliferation of like air follicle development or whatever but in general your hormones are going to enhance whatever your potential is but like for example if I if you shot yourself with Mr Olympia level steroid dosages you would not necessarily look even a semblance like them you would max out whatever you could get to with your genetics but ultimately those are your genetics just like hormos shows up with a 120 test and the guy's yoked out of his tree you know like that guy if he gets on testosterone his 800 that he's manually adjusted to is like the equivalent of another guy with actual above average genetics getting on grams and grams of stuff so the difference in genetic uh response is H huge and then also it's your body's regulating feedback in which it determines how much you need to fulfill functions so just because your testies shoot out 800 first of all it's a snapshot in time it fluctuates wildly over the day so you could have 800 at the time you tested it but it could dip up and down throughout the day like 300 oh doesn't doesn't mean that it's like good or bad necessarily and there is ways to use those numbers as guidance tools of like generally does this kind of like respond to why I feel a certain way I kind of understand like what's going on it is useful but the number doesn't always mean everything so like I know guys who have 500 total test that are way more jacked than guys who have a thousand MH it's just like your response and it's not even just muscle it's also like psychoactive activity it's your um I don't know ability to support bone strength it's like there's a ton of processes that are partially determined by testosterone and your body the way it produces things it's based on what it thinks you need based on the circumstance you've imposed on it so for you to achieve whatever outcome your body deems as ideal it's shooting out 800 for another guy it might be 400 for another guy might be 1,200 it depends on the person so and that's not good or bad it can be used as a proxy for assessing in general does this look low and maybe that's explaining why I feel a certain way and have symptoms but if you're symptom free and your testosterone's like 470 for example I wouldn't tell that that guy like oh you're on the lsh end you should probably take testosterone I certainly would not do that so what are symptoms um morning wood being gone is a pretty common one um erectile dysfunction lack of uh Drive motivation General feelings of being tired all the time unexplainably emotional volatility lack of ability to build muscle all of a sudden you're losing strength in the gym or it's harder to put on muscle or keep off fat um there's a lot of metrics that are kind of vague sounding like how am I going to look in the gym it's kind of arbitrary yeah so that's kind of where the blood work helps correspond with the symptoms so if you generally feel not great it's worth checking and especially one of the easiest ways to tell in my opinion is like erectile quality and libido and drive that's kind of like one of the main the main things I use as a tool for like like no guy should be waking up or trying to have sex with his wife or whatever and like being incapable of doing so they might have a vascular problem which you know a lot of guys have heart disease or are on their way there so that might be causing the erection issues too but that's where the blood work helps cuz it's like oh well my testosterone levels look normal as do the other hormones in that subsystem but my other markers that are like circulatory look mangled and then it's like okay well is that the cause of my erection issues maybe it's not the testosterone so it blood work ultimately is useful to actually get really granular and figure out what is wrong with me and why or where could I optimize should I optimize and getting like a full picture do you feel like people are using testosterone now as almost a Band-Aid to improve their life in some sort of way mhm yeah I think especially in the entrepreneur side of things these guys are like and again it's like is that bad necessarily who am I to say that you shouldn't do that it's your body you can do whatever you want but yeah like I think a lot of people are the sexy idea of trt like oh you know it's going to help enhance my mental Drive productivity muscle growth Etc certainly could I'm not to say it's not like it actually is impactful especially as you get 35 Plus you will reliably in general this isn't everyone though your testosterone may go down upwards of like a percent a year in perpetuity that's just you deteriorating as a human unfortunately and at that point is it unwarranted to supplement back up to what you were when you were 21 I know it's like for some people they're definitely in that Fringe like weird gray area where it's like you know like I feel pretty okay but like I probably don't need it but maybe it would help and it's kind of like there's no like real way to define at that point should I be doing it or not all you need to know is what goes into it though and what circumstance you're imposing on yourself and the risk to make that decision and then you have to make an educated uh path forward yourself essentially because it's like okay do I care about now having to monitor my fertility metrics all the time and do I want to have a kid when do I want to have a kid um do I care about having to monitor my blood work to make sure that my ection schedule isn't resulting in too much red blood cell production I'm going to like increase my chance of a heart attack there are certain things that you got to be mindful of um do I want to be injecting something for the rest of my life you know do I want to be uh have atrophy testicles which can be you can do things to make sure that doesn't happen but like there are considerations I all of a sudden your life involves many more things to look at that you didn't even think about before what about other things that people ingest like like weed or alcohol or or micro doing even micro doing what are your thoughts on those things I don't know if you partake in in any of those things in general for anything that is not enhancing of like productivity and could cloud my mind or I don't know some people could assert that they're like creativity enhancing but that doesn't really help me as much at least what I've determined in my work so I don't micro do with anything I don't use psychedelics I don't smoke weed I don't want something that messes with my Hunger I don't want something that messes with my sleep quality which weed will do to some extent um to me it's never been those aren't drugs that I even really look at that closely because I they don't aren't conducive to the state of mind or state of uh just whole body anything that I want to be in so will they be impactful on hormone levels though if that's the question or just just in general I also saw I remember like for some reason I think about this still to this day uh Steve will do it said do you know who that is so he said I only got to work out high if I'm working out High you know I'm going to have a good workout impression thank you yeah so he like Feels Like Jesus man come on dude you feel like you got to really break those out right now Jack ask him the question you've been curious about this question first I got to do this though oh you know we're all we're all doing this yeah how often do you look in the mirror and flex not as much as I used to yeah I I don't know five times a day no no no you guys just had hormos on so this is not even like a comparable situation I'm curious in my situation I go to the gym pretty much every day I do 20 minutes of cardio in that workout which is usually about an hour I think I eat pretty healthy I don't eat dessert most of the time I try to stay away from sugars I cannot seem to lose the belly fat that that obscures the lower like you know third of the ABS mhm it's been like a year no matter what I do it seems like it's hopeless and do you count calories no dude that's I don't but like objectively I'm not eating that much so like I kind of think you know if if I'm on the treadmill for 20 minutes on the highest incline I know I burned 200 calories on that thing I'm working out I'm not eating that much you know the coffee I barely put any creamer on the coffee like I'm just thinking it I should be seeing some results here how many grams of protein do you eat per day and how many calories do you eat can you answer either of those no uh I would I would guess within a range but I wouldn't answer precisely well there you go so like often times what people find is at the end of the day if I'm let's just say my maintenance calories which is the calories I need to maintain my body weight let's just say it's like 2800 for example with my exercise and everything I'm doing a lot of times what people will end up is in a situation where they are very close to their goal and then wreck it with like minor little things that they're not accounting for not counting very basic condiments stuff they're putting in [ __ ] little things that all add up and that compounded over time similarly to investing equates to an outcome that is not optimal however if you're even in like a 200 calorie deficit which is not that hard to dollar cost average in your diet right over time the compounded outcome is you being losing multiple pounds over the space of a year to where your body composition at the end is you you know having satisfactory results versus you having no results so it's like the in the micro the the little choices that you're not counting like the fact that you've even told me you're not able to you don't know what the calories are exactly but you're pretty sure you're in the range of but you're not able to lose the weight that you want to lose or you're not able to gain the muscle you want and your hormones look good on paper again obviously there's response to the hormones can differ But ultimately if you have not counted meticulously like if you are counting with extreme scrutiny it's literally a physical impossibility to not lose away do you think there's anything any Merit to let's say not eating enough and your body's kind of like holding on to what it has because it's like you're eating it random times or I'm not eating for the first half of the day like you're either expending more than you're taking in or you're not like there's a very like it's you know and then one or the other what about not drinking water cuz I realized all day today except for a little bit this morning I'm not had any water just besides yeah sound great that's what I tell him that is like one of my main water I don't think you're going to like not lose weight because of inadequate hydration though but what I would do that's a really good hack is get a water bottle that is like big enough that you only need to refill it once a day or something I did that I did that I went on Amazon I got the one where it's like a gallon or it's like a gallon and a half or whatever it was and there are different markers that say like by this time drink this much by this much and I did it for a few days but I was just peeing like five times you know before noon it was it it got too distracting cuz like every 30 minutes I just have to get up and go pee we stagger it out more maybe I don't know like ultimately there's a certain amount of hydration you need and then if you're pissing it all out like I would wonder you know like what are you eating that is but you know what maybe for me I'm smaller so I don't need the full gallon a l yeah there's General there's general rules to follow I could pull up the calculation I forgot what it is that's like a good General range of a like a Target each day but yeah man like ultimately if you're counting meticulously like you can pretty reliably determine even how fast you will lose so I don't know if you track the scale closely but you should be weighing yourself once when you wake up after you take your morning piss that's your metric that you're using and over the week you will have an average of numbers that you either gained or lost and yeah the number will fluctuate Up and Down based on water retention food that's in your stomach versus not at some points and that's why some days you might actually gain weight even though you eight in a deficit but over the average of the week you will lose weight if you're in a deficit in general yeah I think the only way could be screwing this up honestly is just all you could eat sushi at the one time I would also say that if you're not tracking your protein similar to what you asked earlier about if I'm eating in a deficit doesn't matter if it's Oreos or whatever yeah it will affect your body composition so even if you lose weight you don't want to end up skinny fat which is a situation a lot of people end up in where they're like inadequately muscled but they've lost weight but a lot of it was lean muscle that they relied on that was expending calories at rest cuz muscle is metabolically active tissue that while you're sitting here is burning up more calories than you're fat so like being as muscle bound as possible is like pretty key too for more sustainably staying lean and it's just healthier than having fat on your body to be H so that protein calorie counting but also I don't know what your training is like but I think a lot of people Overlook the importance of like tracking the weight so keeping a log book even if it's seems cumbersome and annoying if you're not like actually holding yourself to a standard of progressively overloading you're not giving your body reason to adapt so you could go in the gym and actually work pretty hard but if it's not something that is over the threshold of necessary to stimulate further growth you will kind of be not making progress regardless of everything else looks good like you could you could lose weight and like you know achieve certain metrics but you'll never optimize if you're not trying to gain muscle progressively overloading tracking numbers and yeah some people can intuitively do that some people need to write it down and I don't think that's a problem like if you're in the gym and last week you did you know 50 pounds on the dumbbell press for 12 reps per set like next time try 55 on set one and then do like you know 50/50 or whatever and like try to you just have to impose constant levels of adaptation similar to what you do in anything in life you're not going to adapt if you don't push yourself into uncomfortable state to some extent so got it I think Graham also needs to do legs he never does legs and and wouldn't legs be good for weight loss because like you said if you have muscles they metabolize faster than fat so if he had muscles on his legs yeah then it would be good for weight loss yeah assuming you're that's a pretty big muscle group to skip so why are you going to call me out like that Jack got to edit that out I'm trying to provide constructive criticism but wood wood working out legs that's good for weight loss right oh 100% yeah but you can also work out legs on the incline on the treadmill right at 15 inclines so like the top incline that does something though right that's pretty defin it's better than sitting yeah for sure so technically what you could do I don't like this it didn't work out for me and I'd never use it but it's a desk that you can move to standing and then putting like a small treadmill in it or something so whenever you're doing I can't focus when I do this but some people do great when you're doing like tedious meetings that you don't necessarily need to have like per perfect sound quality or potentially if you're just like reading through emails or reading reports that you could focus on that don't require like the most intensive attention getting steps in while you are working could be done too it's just like yeah I don't know prepare for podcast is always on the treadmill and I just download videos and I watch them okay there you go yeah but yeah man like uh download Like My Fitness Pal or something like a free app and you just track the calories and it'll make a difference yeah what do you think about adderal negative side effects do some people need it do some people not need it is it overprescribed how do you know when you need it how consistently should you take it if you're taking it all right let me try I have a lot I have a lot of questions and i' I've I've spoke about this actually in a brand deal that we had with with better help but I said that so I I was diagnosed with ADHD and I got prescribed Aderall I took it for about two years straight every single day uh I was probably 19 to 21 or maybe maybe 20 to 22 what was your dose uh I initially started out I think at 10 mhm and then I got up to 20 XR and I was taking 20 XR every day yeah so there's a few things I could say I think it is overprescribed first of all mhm I think a lot of people think that uh they have ADHD when they might just have like bad sleep patterns or poor lifestyle CU like at the end of the day the thing that's the most impactful on your cognitive state is going to be diet um exercise sleep like you could take any amount of drugs it will not make up for those things as like boring as that might sound um even when you look to literature you can offset deficits and performance when you're sleep deprived through these drugs often like mapol and whatnot but you will not really enhance your state above Baseline at least by studies if you are well slept and like in a good state for working but you know I think it is overprescribed I think a lot of people are using it unnecessarily I think a lot of people think that they tie good outcomes to it because they used it and then something good happened while they were on it or they felt like they were more productive while they were on it so then they need it and they tie that to that activity to like I need it in order to work now it's almost like the crutches like hor MOSI talks about like you don't want to be the guy who needs Aderall to like do good business you know that guy's going to get decimated by a guy like Alex who can be underslept and doesn't need anything so with that it's like yeah there are negative side effects it will reliably increase your heart rate blood pressure um while in general that could be relatively benign in the short term and like the studies they look at in the long term that compounded with everything else it's just another risk factor that you're adding into the equation and with XR in particular it's called halflife it's like how long it takes for half the drug to work its way out of your system that halflife is so long that it's almost certainly impacting Your Sleep Quality to where it's like a vicious circle effect where you take it in order to be as cognitively dialed as you can it's still in your system when you go to bed you get poor sleep and then you need Aderall to fix your state because you feel like you're not sharp enough and then you just keep it keeps going so I see a lot of people end up on really high dosages and yet their state of mind at the point they got to is often worse than them at Baseline like before they even started it so I'm not to say it doesn't have utility at all I think in certain circumstances like if you are sleep deprived to hell and you like need to attenuate the deficit in performance because you're about to do something that is you know you can't not perform like you know could be worthwhile and it definitely shows in the literature that is like caffeine maol all these things can make up for deficits in sleep in the short term but at the end of the day it could be at the expense of tomorrow's sleep and then in perpetuity thereafter if you continue to push it down that road so um and also stimulating like synthetic release of dopamine and like stress hormones or kind of like fighter flight hormones um neurotransmitters that are like stress inducing aren't necessarily always conducive to high quality work sometimes you might feel like you're revved up and you're mentally driven but you're kind of like some people just end up more all over the place in addition at least for me Aderall makes my libido go through the roof so for me I actually get almost preoccupied with sex when I take it to the point that it's like whatever increase in performance I might get is offset entirely by me wanting to bang my girlfriend like three times and that's not good for work you know it's hard to focus when that's happening so like I know some guys who literally say when they take it they just end up jerking off all day instead of working that's an actual outcome that happens yeah that's that's crazy yeah because it's like when you're flooding your brain with like Feelgood dopaminergic activity yeah it's not necessarily always going to translate into like I'm going to make good YouTube videos or I'm going to write a good paper for school is that just discipline or is that how the mind is WI it depends on the person okay yeah cuz like some people take it and don't get an effect on appetite too but a lot of people me included if I take it I have no appetite I could not eat pretty much all day and that's another way people abuse it especially in the fitness industry is they take they either smoke or they take a lot of nicotine or a lot of caffeine or Aderall they will crush their appetite in order to not eat and they take steroids to offset the loss and lean muscle and they will basically get be like shredded all the time and offset any like deterioration of performance at least they try to through like stimulants steroids Etc so you know that's all to say that if you have ADHD and you need it like I'm sure there is an actual utility where it is needed because there are certain people with certain genetic predispositions neurologically that I couldn't speak to like you are lying about your situation like they probably need it but I think a lot of times it is too general of a classification that doesn't take into account like all of the variables because when you go in for an Aderall like assessment if you are somebody with ADHD for riddlin or viance or any of this stuff they're not going to ask you like have you tried optimizing your sleep yet like what's your diet and then yeah it'd be like write this checklist and it's like do you feel I don't know unproductive or do you feel like you get distracted more than x times per day or whatever and it's like I kind of I get it but at the same time it's like I think a lot of people are getting on it that don't need it and I think a lot of people are using it for the purposes at which I don't know in the short term for certain like circumstances it could be helpful but like it's certainly not an everyday Med that you would want to do so I think my concern with adderal and everybody thinking they have ADHD because if you talk to people that are my age I'm sure a lot of the commentors can attest to this everybody thinks that they have ADHD but I think that it's more just a cause of spending so much time on like Tik Tok Instagram with commercials distractions all of these things that give you instant gratification kind of turn you into a proxy ADHD person but then it was actually when I started going to therapy as actually better help they pointed out some things where before I had Tik Tok and all these distractions and I couldn't watch TV until a certain time of day it's like did you experience this when you were a kid and it's like actual things that are indicative of it and I relate it to when I was a kid that for me was like the most mind-blowing but I feel like everybody thinks nowadays that they suffer from ADHD or just have it I shouldn't say suffer from yeah like a lot of people I know now have burner phones intentionally so the only thing their phone does is like emergency functions and then the the phone that has social media and stuff on it for work is not around unless they're posting and then they get rid of it immediately like Joe Rogan for example he has a burner phone and has like nothing on it and that's that make a great product it's just a like a really nice that ladybug thing yeah it's like an optimized phone without any apps or anything where it's just a phone and texting that's it doesn't let you download the stuff you mean like it's just like it's just there is one of those actually I saw it it's a commercial it's like also in black and white yeah one of the hacks too that I got from Alex is you go into your color uh settings in your phone and you can turn it on Gray scale and like cuts the dopamine kind of Spike from social media a decent amount yeah you just want to spend less time on yeah yeah it's like far less interesting to scroll mindlessly when you have like no Vivid colors blasting in your face yeah so like there's stuff you can do it's just like obviously takes discipline too to even avoid like don't go get the actual phone like leave it yeah you know isn't it better though just to practice discipline at the end of the day of just setting boundaries for yourself and sticking with it what I will say though dude is as much as I would love to say that everyone just needs to like you know get their [ __ ] together and be as disciplined as possible some of the most respected people some of the people I respect the most in Health Fitness whatever they also just like employ practices of not having it in the house to not have to deal with it like their strategy is ultimately don't have it around as much as I want to say like do you guys just have like the insane mental fortitude and you haven't like ate shitty for so long that you just don't care about it anymore they're like no I actually like don't have it in the house cuz if I do I will eat it I'm like damn even like the most respected qualified guys yeah that's kind of like me with desserts or sweets it it's the sweets that you can't stop with just one like having M&M's or Oreos and things like this I really try not to keep them in the house cuz it's so easy just to eat one and then one more and one more and one's not bad but it just it rarely ever stops at one and like you only have so much mental fortitude that gets chopped away at over the day that you know this is why people often snack at night time or do whatever and like make you know uh I don't know like a they will basically cave at the end of the day on themselves and like completely [ __ ] up their diets for an array of different things but the less things you have to impose on your environment that make you have to dig into that mental fortitude like the EAS easier it is to just like smoothly cruise through life and not cheat on the diet for example so yeah like Peter AA for example super respected guy he has multiple kids who do sometimes eat good snacks and now what they do is they take the kids out for ice cream whenever they want ice cream not have ice cream in the house like he will drive them to an ice cream place and get them ice cream but he won't have drumsticks in the freezer because he will decimate them self admittedly which I think is cool because a lot of guys could act like and very much would like I'm this hard guy and like I have the insane mental fortitude and just don't be a [ __ ] don't eat drunk how could you you know just just don't do it easier said than done for a lot of people so like for me I try to I try my best to not have stuff in the house it's like my hack if you even call it that Peter also brushes his teeth right after dinner like he does his whole like brush routine right after he finishes eating because if you're around for hours before you go to bed you're more likely to cheat skip yeah so it's like trying to impose on yourself having that you feel like a double idiot if you brush and to do it because to eat ANM or I feel like David gogin is the only out there with real discipline imagine that he actually was like totally snacking yeah yeah but that guy is like it's wild too cuz I've I asked Joe like I don't know David myself but I was like is there any like pivotal event that kind of like he was self admittedly ACC used to be fat out of shape and something triggered in him that made him adopt this hyper disciplined like approach to life and you perhaps it's in his book and I should just read the book but it's like it's interesting how some people are you know not the representation of health and discipline and they even pivot thereafter despite having Decades of like bad habits so obviously it's something you can change but I certainly wouldn't use David is like the reference of like he does this so I should be able to like keep drunk in my house do this do that and just avoid everything bad I don't think that's the reasonable goal for most people how do you think you can increase dis discipline for people because I know so many people and I think discipline is just plummeting I think it's like I mean it's like bad how quickly it's just falling off a cliff how can people hopefully grab onto the discipline and like bring it back up there um I do think that maybe as redundant as it is imposing less situations where you have to dig into like situations that require your mental bandwidth allocation to be disciplined equals a greater amount of like resource to allocate to actual things that are worthwhile rather than like literally thinking in my mind how to avoid a drumstick in my freezer like just don't have it in the house like that's something that I think is reasonable um I think also setting like micro achievable goals that you can get that feedback from is worthwhile so like if you don't go to the gym at all rather than expecting yourself to be in this perfect you know routine immediately just like let's just show up you know show up and like get on a treadmill or something like just getting to the gym is like a you know a task in itself for some people as absurd as it sounds and just setting like progressively overloading your goals as dumb and workout bro as that sounds it's totally applicable you know like even when you're setting your goals for the year if I want to hit this many subscribers or I want to get this or I want to do that like a lot of things are more daunting in the macro but when you get granular on the micro like they're far more achievable and a lot more easy to wrap your head around how you could actually get to the macro goal when you look at look at all these micro increments that if I just hit these at the end of the day have compounded to this like finality and conclusive outcome that is huge so like you know for me I even try to get granular about like how much you know how many if I was posting regularly how many views do I think it's reasonable to get like per day or like what's a subscriber per day metric that's is I think good to achieve good growth of the brand or Revenue per day that is going to be sustainable to achieve this end outcome at the end of the year that I think is a good year like I don't look at I don't really look as much at the end year number as I do on the micro what do I need to do like this week to actually equate to the habits that would result in that final outcome and I think it's a lot easier for people to actually get out of a funk or discipline themselves to start because otherwise it's too daunting to even do anything seemingly um so those are two things that I think are pretty actionable um but um also it's like the lifestyle things we talked about like if you're low on sleep like good luck you know you're it's going to be far more difficult to make rational decisions you're going to be more emotionally volatile it'll be you almost can't even trust your mindset when you are in a suboptimal state of health so I think just getting as healthy as you can and dialing in things that are really low hanging fruit like everyone's bed is in their house everyone is capable of getting in it and getting eight hours it's just like most don't so you know that kind of stuff makes a big difference too on your decision making process and am I going to sit here and play video games because I'm kind of like feeling down and I kind of want that dopamine hit of whatever versus am I gonna go work so hopefully that's helpful for some people it sounds like the main thing here is sleep like that's the thing that you consistently bring up over and over and over again and I'll say in my own life I've tried so many different hacks to try to improve like the way that I feel when I wake up in the morning or just like maybe my overall mental well-being and the three things I've noticed actually have an impact cuz usually I don't see any results with all the things I've tried is sleep diet and resistance training there you go those are the three things and sleep is so but sometimes you could sleep too much and I feel just as bad sleeping too much as I do under sleeping that's also probably a bit psychological too because you know you just wasted part of your valuable day so I'm not necessarily saying you should oversleep by any means you should go by like metrics of like you can tell when you've had a good sleep and sometimes it's not always reflected by the number so like if you get up at 7 hours and you feel great it doesn't necessarily mean you have to force yourself to stay in bed for 8 and if you feel feel underslept at eight maybe you need nine that day I don't think people need to get too hypers specific about this but it's worth like whatever you need getting it I think is like at least worth seeing on a regular B basis what's my month look like with actually trying to hit at least eight hours or whatever makes me feel good and not making myself get out of bed when the alarm goes off that I set for five and a half hours because I thought I'd get more work done because at least pretty reliably you will find that your quality of work is so much worse proportionally that it does not make up for the hours that you lost by getting up early so or not getting up early yeah do you ever meditate or Journal no and I think that some of that stuff is often over hyped as to its impact but I also think that it's like free and I think a lot of people do benefit from it so I think if you're somebody who finds benefit um and needs to like reflect on things or needs to calm down and that helps you calm down by all means I don't think it's not helpful I just don't feel it's uh I don't like I I wouldn't want to do it and I don't do it some people notice big benefit from it though you know I notice a good benefit from journaling because a lot of the times if I'm struggling through some sort of an issue I start just writing and it just kind of tracks what my mind is is thinking at a given moment and then it always starts out really negative but by the end of the journaling session it turns out very positive and I don't know what it is but like I feel like you automatically want to spin things in a positive way and it is only how you let it affect yourself so if you let it affect yourself in a positive way it becomes a positive thing so that's where I found the benefit in journaling is just that yeah I think if anything is actually impacting your ability to perceive situations and like emotionally respond in a more favorable way and it only took you like sitting down and writing about it for 15 minutes or something like do that do that for sure some people like think about stuff in the shower some people think about it while they're walking some people talk to their significant other like people have their own ways of working through stuff and just because somebody doesn't do it who you respect it doesn't mean it's not valuable so I'm sure there's lots of people that do and don't Journal who are like successful or whatever let's switch let's talk about prime hydration Logan Paul called you a virgin so you're responded with a threeh hour video yeah what situations do you think that Prime would be good yeah I think that uh if you are um somebody who wants something that is artificially sweeten and tastes very good to enhance your fluid intake cuz some people just don't drink enough water at that point I would say the whatever potential negatives come from artificial sweeteners which are very speculative and not really founded by literature and humans if you're literally not going to drink water to a degree that it's impactful on your health in a negative way but you will drink that much fluid with the stuff that's like super sweet whatever especially if you have a kid and he's just refusing to hydrate properly then yeah that could be helpful because a lot of those like it's kind of wild to me because despite them getting older like Logan and KSI are like almost 30 or 30 their fan base seems to stay around the same demographic almost like it just Matthew mccon he gets older but they stay the same age L yeah literally I do think that some of those children may like I've heard of insane examples where kids will literally if they don't want to eat what their parents have for them that they deemed as healthy they'll just like not eat or they'll do things that are I don't know like they will avoid drinking enough water because they just don't like to taste of water doesn't taste good so if the only way it's going to get them to hydrate is by drinking this stuff like could be could be worthwhile um other than that though it's like or if they're potassium deficient which is some people are in their diets could be helpful too A lot of people have sodium Rich diets that are aren't exercising regularly and aren't sweating a lot and don't need more sodium in a hydration drink so those individuals if you're going to like pound an electrolyte formula which you probably didn't even need to begin with like that's where a potassium rich one might be a better choice than one with a bunch of sodium in it because you're already like fully topped out on sodium you don't need anymore but a lot of people are not hitting their potassium needs so pottassium and magnesium magnesium are the two minerals that most people if you're were going to like concentrate on which ones most people are not getting enough of it's those two however when you're marketing it to like adult athletes who are sweating and like cutting weight and doing intensive competition as like the right rehydration formula of professional sports and like football clubs and UFC fighters like that's where it's like such a misalignment of utility because it's like I guess I see it more so as like a a Sweet Water replacement like when I see Prime I don't think of you know endurance athletes I'm just thinking oh there's someone who's going to pick this up because they like the taste of it I think that's what they love people to think though is that they get the upside of like aligning with top athletes in sports that they want to be respected in but also get the sales velocity from like the actual children who buy the stuff so it's like this weird paradoxical marketing misalignment where it's like all of their sponsored people are like adults at performing at a high level in sport that would never drink this but then all of their customers are like little kids it's really weird you know the breakdown of their customer if it's actually kids or if it's more adults that are buying this I'd be very curious to see yeah I think the demo is mostly kids and they that's with data that I've been given from like retail stores too being somebody who like sells retail stuff and how do they differentiate between an adult buying it for their child versus someone under the age of 18 buying it that's a good question um as far as like actually getting hypers specific on how they would calculate these things or like gender or anything of that nature I don't know how they do it I just know that like when I see their audience as well given the anecdotes I've been given in the retail space given the audiences I see show up to their events when they do the events for Prime given like all the circumstantial evidence that is provided it looks to be dominated by young children all of the anecdotes about you know like super thrilled customers even the thing he used as proof that his product's great when he called me a virgin he was like some little kid so it's like there's not a lot of people emailing in like I'm you know an athlete in sport and this was the thing that game was gamechanging for me not that it needs to be but it's just like I think proportionately more kids are buying it I think adults drink it because it tastes good too why don't you create something that would be a competition to that I have uh electrolyte formula but it's not like geared to their demographic so yeah and I I just am like not that pushy about it so I actually talked about at the end of the three-hour video but it was very brief got it yeah but um in general again it's like two use cases are you trying to have something that tastes good and is widely adopted and people slam all day that might make sense if you're trying to just like drink something that tastes good it's like yeah like you said it could be like a moo or like a water replacement sort of thing right that said it has potassium so you could actually give a misleading representation of it like this has electrolytes because it does it's not inaccurate to say it's just not the thing that you're primarily sweating out when you're exercising and yet you're marketing it through guys who are literally weight cutting for the UFC yeah it could be a good soda alternative or if you're going to have like a Fanta a l calorie as well it is I think it's like 10 or 20 something calories 15 calories the way they market like if they represented it in a fair way I would be far less scrutinous of it it's like the problem I have too is like I've made videos reviewing company stuff and like that's part of the content I made back in the day was like supplement reviews and stuff like that and like there's a way to do it that is like a more fair representation of what you're seeing versus when him and KSI will compare their product to others even the other day they posted their energy drink beside a Red Bull and they were like Prime energy has 10 calories Red Bull has 160 you would need to drink a Prime energy this big to get the same amount of calories as a Red Bull in K it's like what it's this Giant drink and it's like they completely intentionally Overlook saying that Red Bull sugarfree is I think less calories per can than theirs and it's the exact makeup otherwise other than being artificially sweetened in zero calorie so like to basically assert that this is their representation of product they have a variant that is what would be competitive with yours so why are you completely overlooking it entirely are there any illegalities of putting your product next to somebody else's and saying ours is better without giving a full fair comparison in that case I'm sure if they haven't been sued yet I would assume no because they've been doing it a lot it just seems like even Mr Beast is is very careful about how he positions Mr Beast bars against Hershey's yeah like and never said he never rarely ever says anything directly it's usually which one do you like better Mr Beast wins over her you know yeah yeah that's the thing that's really odd man because it's like Gatorade they have how many different types of Gatorade like six or seven different variants and they all have different use cases one of them is Gatorade zero which has almost no calories and just tastes good and is like a reasonable electrolyte formula and yet Logan will pick the one that has a ton of sugar in it and is meant to be used in like very specific use cases in sport and then compare it to Prime which is meant to be drank like in children who aren't even exercising essentially be like ours has 10 calories theirs has look at this much sugar this is how much sugar it is you like pour it out in front of you it's like dude like I don't know it just kind screams une ethical marketing to me it's just not there's ways you could highlight the utility of your product that don't involve like misrepresenting your competition so blatantly and it's like the people that buy into it must be kids cuz it's like you're literally marketing to the lowest common denominator of like understanding of what you're putting in front of their face it's like oh more sugar bad less sugar good in I think most people are like that not just kids I adults would see sugar no sugar just automatically but an adult going to the grocery store would they I guess maybe they wouldn't look for like they wouldn't even know the Gatorade product exists cuz they heard Logan Paul say that Gatorade equals bad at which point it's questionable as to like are you basically just misrepresenting this other Brand's offering because you're making it seem like their entire catalog revolves around this sugar dense like unhealthy thing and yours is so dramatically better and completely like steering people away from the products that they would actually buy from that company should they know the truth so yeah I know for me it it's so silly but when I was a kid and maybe I was like 12 11 years old I went to the doctor's office and they had this thing on the wall it showed like you know a chocolate bar a can of soda like all these things and above it was the amount of sugar it had in it in sugar cubes and when I saw the can of soda and the amount of sugar that was in it in Cube form that turned me off from drinking soda as a kid so I could see if you have this drink here and you pour out the sugar it's it's alarming to see how much sugar is put in foods and drinks today that's true I think the thing they lean on though heavily is the fact that these companies are so much bigger it's similar to like a YouTuber doing a takedown video on you and you trying to decide should I respond to this or should I not is it worth like giving them a platform is what they said even valid you know you consider all these things I'm sure Gatorade and these other companies have considered like this is complete nonsense like do we do anything I guess we can't because it's like this company then if they respond then they're bringing a lot of attention they can't respond to exactly so like I think they know this and they lean into it cuz when you don't hear any push back a lot of people will blindly believe it yeah and then who's actually watching the adults on YouTube who are dismantling the videos and whatnot probably not little kids like my demographic I can almost guarantee is older than Logan's yeah I don't know it's uh it's wild dude and um yeah it's like I've never seen somebody so committed to making as much money as possible even to the detriment of long-term brand credibility like the guy often is synonymous with scammer now and he doesn't even seem to care I've seen some wild stuff that he's put out there to monetize off his audience even to the extent of putting like I wasn't even aware he did another uh like nft thing behind a pay wall for his members of his membership site so imagine was that 99 Originals he's done multiple apparently so he's done like uh 99 Originals crypto zoo and then there was like a bunch of others I wasn't even aware he did but there was this one and I think it's pretty egregious that you would do this to your most DieHard people is you paid for a pay wall to get exclusive content CU you're such a fan of this guy and he doesn't even really post there apparently and then once you're behind there you get pitched at nft that you only have access to because you're like one of the most committed fans and you get rug pulled on that like holy [ __ ] dude like talk about slapping your audience in the face what's interesting is I remember when he was doing the Pokemon box breaks the second one he did uh he included an nft or he sold nfts of the hollows he pulled like and at the peak those nfts they all sold out the first day but a lot of them were selling for over $40,000 40,000 for an nft of him pulling a Charizard card yeah I'm so curious what those would sell for today nothing I've seen the values like nothing they've actually crashed to nothingness there's been assessments of this that check the before and afters and like what happened to those projects and they're all worthless and he will never talk about it think dink coin or whatever all that [ __ ] I always assume that was a joke though dude I I never you did but a lot of other people I don't think anybody is taking that serious I could be wrong but like I don't think anyone look at Dink and well people know that it's a nonsense thing that's not meant to be a real business in general but it's the fact that he's like I'm putting my money into this and it's stupid but it'll probably gain value because shitcoins are blowing up right now and I think it's Pro like has good potential like you've endorsed it yeah to your audience there's no way you thought all those crypto projects were going to go to the moon and like it's all going to be fine and and then not be apologetic after words for how they've all crashed into nothingness sweep it all under the rug try and like threaten coffeezilla to sue him and then when he actually doesn't back down all of a sudden now you're like you care about everyone yeah man like it's wild because it's like it almost reinforces just doing whatever you need to get ahead it's wild like it's not a good story necessarily for takeaways of motivation in my opinion like every time you can monetize off your audience milk the [ __ ] out of them like what he's done and it's worked quite well at least from a monetary perspective so I don't know I feel like at some point it's like there's going to be such an overwhelmingly negative perspective of what he's doing that maybe it muddles out the rest but he's also done an exceptional job of being viral in moments that also mute out those situations seemingly like replace the audience with kids who don't know about it and just keep recycling it yeah there's going to be some random Youtube channel with like 30,000 subscribers that makes like a 6h hour expose video on I think that's the one I I just saw one the other day and it like literally made a chronological timeline of every scam he's done oh actually yeah I don't know how viral is right now oh I think I've seen that I think it was the I think it was the channel King of Nothing yeah oh King of Nothing right I've seen him before I think I think that was the it was a long he had a lot of stuff that I didn't even know existed you know and it was like oh man this guy's done like like I don't know I I'd probably be Mis quoting but it was like five plus rug Bulls or something or like crypto hype situations that you knew were nonsense like things that weren't valid businesses that you had no idea what was going on and all you cared about was hyping it up so you could make something off of it hopefully so yeah dude it's uh it's like I don't know like there's examples of people doing it the right way and there's people doing it the wrong way and I think he's an example of the wrong way personally like I don't think it's you know admirable that he has this oh billion dollar Prime like yeah man congrats but like at the expense of what do you think he's on gear maybe certainly possible I think that his uh he has great genetics for sure so I think it's plausible it could be natural but you know the drug testing parameters of the last fight were pretty suspect I think it was like testing at competition only for example um and yeah like with the type of training he's doing boxing and he's still like gaining size seemingly I don't know like it's uh it's a tossup for sure I would say I could go go either way so I wouldn't definitively say I know for sure how how are peptides different basically steroids bind to a certain receptor called the Androgen receptor it was the thing I talked about where how you respond to hormones could dictate you know how much you respond regardless of how much is present with peptides they are typically more Rehabilitation oriented and more like Pro uh recovery they do a lot of different things because you could find examples of peptides that literally I don't know if you guys have heard Milano tan 2o before dude if you pull this up you will find some wild people are about to be like mind blown if they' never heard of it you can literally inject this stuff stimulate the production of melanin in somebody who literally cannot tan at all even an albino person and make them black if you want to what yeah so there's some people who change their race manually with this peptide so you could do it for like six months yeah and there and change back yeah there was some woman I made a video on who not only made herself black but then went on like national news and was asserting she is like actually African-American and had like was always like that or something so she was actually asserting her like that was her background too and um yeah a lot of people use it to stay tan year round and it's pretty good at it is there any negative side effects I'm really pale that's uh I would love to get a little bit more color on my SK it was never FDA approved so you have to buy it on the Underground essentially and and it will one of the negatives is it like flushes your skin for like an hour so you get like a really red face which is kind of unsightly it'll also Raise Your Heart Lake a little bit seemingly but um you could also get moles and freckles in areas that maybe you didn't want them permanently it seems to kind of go away when your T goes away too um one of the side effects interestingly enough is spontaneous erections so people get it they actually the developers of the drug realized it was doing that and they like pulled out the like I don't know afrodesiac SL like sexual enhancing characteristics of it and made a female libido drug out of it and it's actually FDA approved for female uh like lack of female liido oh wow yeah so that this drug exists it's called VII I believe and you can get it prescribed as a woman for low drive and yeah it doesn't tan you as much but it just makes you hornier um there's some other ones there's a lot of other ones that all do varying things like ones that enhance like uh tissue repair for example and or like Pro um like blood vessel formation could help get like actual circulation to areas and injuries that otherwise would have been like pretty difficult to get uh blood flow to um there's array of different ones um it's amazing they have the technology to do something like that yeah there's like to me it seems like magic there's this one called ghrp6 and it stimulates the receptor that makes you hungry so you could use it and literally like Crush an eating competition what about physical limitations like your stomach size even if you're not hungry it will make you hungry like it overrides signals do all you can eat sushi that's what we got to do horrible I $300 Sushi what situations would you want to just be perpetually hungry well that's the thing it's not Perpetual you can like it's in and out of your system relatively quickly so you could I know but to overeat like that you would think that your stomach might eventually burst or like there's risks to that at some point like you get full but in enhances Your Capacity to like override satiation mechanism essentially so a me with bodybuilders though a lot of times the bottleneck of gaining size is food intake so for them it's worthwhile potentially for you not so much for you maybe I don't know sounds like it might be but like back in the day too people were doing I almost did this I'm glad I didn't but 10,000 calorie eating challenges were really big in Fitness YouTube back in the day I was like everyone's getting this is before I had a big Channel I was like everyone's getting viral videos of 10,000 calorie challenge I'm going to do the 10,000 calorie in one meal challenge like in less than an hour and I was going to do it and I decided not to but that was what I would have used if I wanted to do it so this sounds stupid okay yeah uh 3500 calories is 1 pound of of fat yep if you eat 10,000 calories does that and and your Baseline let's just say is 2,000 does that automatically mean that you're going to gain almost three PB or sorry 2 lb uh um I I would be like is there a limit to how many calories your body could absorb in a day probably I would think there'd be some level of like malabsorption happening I don't know to what what degree that's a really interesting question though maybe that's a hack is like you have to eat 15,000 calories in a day and his last 10,000 calories don't count and then like don't eat the rest of the week yeah basically that's yeah that's uh wildly enough and this shows how bad the eating habits are in the fitness industry is one of the ways that I used to eat and a lot of people still eat is you have perfect discipline from Monday to Saturday or whatever days you decide and then on the seventh day you just go ham and you just eat whatever if you're actually really lean and dieted down it's pretty easy to crush like 10,000 calories of just anything and after that you've kind of like made yourself sick to the point that food isn't that appealing and the next three days or so you kind of get back to what you were at and then you start making progress again and it's kind of the cycle of uh you know binging and then dep driving yourself and binging it and it's not sustainable so that's where I wouldn't recommend that gosh what about the liver King diet the one that he doesn't even follow himself because he has a different one how do you get access to all this information he tried to hire me as a coach before he was online so like he sent me some like pretty like damning information from his uh official company email and I didn't realize it at the time and then he like went on to basically abuse hormones and compounds to build a bigger than life like social media presence and obviously he got big very fast and then previous to that anyone who knew what he was actually doing and lying about had that information and he just didn't think it was risk or risky enough I guess why did you decide to make that information public and what was going through your mind at the time yeah so with him it was kind of interesting because I didn't even know I had it for a while I was just kind of like I made speculative videos on it because he's basically telling people he's natural I'm like there's no [ __ ] way this guy's natural so I'd made a couple videos just objectively looking at what I could tell and G giving my opinion and I just saw him going on a rampage of lying on podcasts to people's faces and it even got to the extent where he was telling people that you're like sub Primal if you're on hormones like you're like a lesser man essentially which there's a lot of people that literally need them to thrive or function um he was saying things like you're pathetic if you think I am um that just shows how bad of work ethic you have how could you not think this is achievable if I actually took steroids then you'd see what it would look like maybe I will just to shut you idiots up just like wild stuff I was like dude and then the monetary upside was kind of hard to ignore that he was asserting that what he was doing was so conducive to his progress and whatnot that it's not like he attributed that you could get his physique to his diet or his supplements but it was like that was the takeaway a lot of people were getting is like your ancestral consistent he was like telling Hanan on a H3 podcast like you shouldn't take trt just do the ancestral disciplines and then you will be able to double your testosterone levels like I have you know like a lot of his message is Noble in practice and overall the takeaways are good but it was getting to the extent where he was actually um very clearly biased in order to promote it in such a way that he was doing everything ancestrally consistent and it equals the outcome he has when in reality he was lying and taking hormones to achieve it and you know like there's a myriad of ethical complications that come into your own judgment if it's like fair or not so for me it was kind of like sick of seeing this guy just like going on a rampage on social media I was like you know what like you're not going to tell the truth so I'll tell it for you would there be a situation where you would reach out to him first and say hey I have this information well the thing is he knew I had it cuz he sent it to me maybe he forgot I mean dude he he knew I guess he just like wouldn't you go to him first and say hey I got this information you know I have it I want to make this video cuz you're making these claims I'll give you the opportunity to say it first from your channel and if you don't then I will make my video but I'd like you to have the opportunity did that ever cross your mind or was that ever an option or yeah like I suppose that that is something that could have been done but I felt like he had more than enough opportunity he'd been presented with the question a zillion times and basically spit in people's faces when he asked it it and there was a point when he was also like not responding to me on social media and I was like I don't really care to engage with the guy necessarily so you know I just didn't see it worthwhile at the time too so the guy's going to continue to lie like to my friends faces too like he'd go on podcast with people I'm I respect and I'm friends with and just be like you know uh dodgy lying saying complete misrepresentations of what he's doing and um I don't know especially like the this you know saying you don't need blood work too and like you're sub Primal if you think you you know I should have blood work and cholesterol levels are like he was saying a lot of nonsense and it was like over the top to where I don't know like I felt like he had two years to come clean or whatever it was and he just wasn't going to do it and he was getting leaning harder and harder into it and I was like yeah man like you know I have this too like you sent it to me so obviously you either think I'm like too scared to come out with it or like don't care if I do or or I don't know don't think I'm going to I don't know did you get any backlash from that video yeah a little bit yeah and what was the criticism you got on that well similar to the you know ethical conundrum you just present presented it's like how do you like you know make sense of making that versus opposite other options and um yeah it's certainly an interesting question but um yeah it was uh I think ultimately people were just happy to see the truth come out and then him finally admit it and then see how he responded to it and what he would say cuz all of a sudden after that point like I think that hormones have a viable you know are viable for people who need them and I'm going to you know try and go natural and then he ends up going back on hormones again he self- admittedly on hormones again now so what happened when he went off of steroids who knows if he did dude he said he did I didn't see any blood work proof so I don't know maybe he tried and um I'm sure that the biggest thing he probably had a hurdle getting over is the fact that even if you come off if you've like subjected yourself to this level of exposure for however long there's no guarantee you're going to like get back to high functioning status naturally necessarily even if everything's perfect so it almost begs the question like how impactful is this ancestral living that is supposedly so optimal for everything and correcting hormones when you yourself with every like Avenue and means and resources of an ancestrally consistent person can't even restore your hor hormones after coming off like it doesn't look too good so I'm sure there was like a lot of different you know thoughts that went into like how he should handle it what should he do what should I say I'm doing should I say I'm coming off what I'm probably planning on staying on like what am I going to do about it so I don't know and like ultimately he's the only one who knows for sure what he did but to me and objectively everyone else kind of watching doesn't look like he really changed a whole lot in recent I'm sure he like isn't abusing the hell out of some of the growth hormone dosages he was now but some of it is uh yeah man I don't know like he wasin definitely lying everyone and now the truth's out and he's uh handled as well as he could I guess yeah is there anything left that you haven't said to him that you want to say no not really dude no no he like asked me to be in some documentary thing and I was like I don't really see the point personally like I think we've kind of like beat this horse to death and people know and like you've said that I don't I don't necessarily think he's coming from the best place of like I I don't trust him necessarily so I'm very hesitant to like be like you know you have the best intentions was what ever you're doing at this point forward so I should just associate with you like certainly not my thought process so um yeah it's uh it's interesting to see what he's doing though because again like I think his overall message is Noble you know some of the stuff that he's seen with his kids getting better from autoimmune issues like that's real stuff that is worth taking note of and it sucks that it overshadows it may be overshadowed by this thing but like it was kind of his brought it upon himself to kind of like co-mingle the two you could have easily been like yeah like I'm on hormone replacement therapy but like these are the lifestyle practices I utilize and I think even people who are natural should utilize to optimize health and here's why and like Paul saladino he's huge now and he does not you not have to lean into some fake natural physique and like lie to his fanss or anything about it so I'm not saying he's like perfect either because he definitely makes some pretty like you know aggressive claims sometimes about like vegetables and whatnot but like he's certainly not lying about being on like $20,000 of gear to his and then selling the product so yeah yeah it's really interesting because I I look at Paul saladino's diet and it seems so counterintuitive and so anti-food pyramid which I know is kind of a people will say it's a scam everything's a scam the food pyramid is a scam but I tried Paul saladino's diet which diet though CU he CH he's changed his stance I would say it's the more recent one so I went out I bought raw honey I bought non-pasteurized uh like milk uh cheese uh I just did 80 D20 ground beef I bought uh beef Tallow oh sorry grass-fed grass finished ground beef which is key I bought beef Tallow I did the whole nine yards and I would eat like two meat patties with the non-pasteurized dairy and then put a glob of raw honey on it and it and maybe a organic banana on the side sure sure and it was really good but as I'm eating it I'm thinking to myself there's no way that this is healthy you know what I mean like he says he's MD right and he says it's super healthy and I had that meal day after day after day after day yeah and there's just no way if I'm looking at that plate that it's healthy yeah dude it's uh it's interesting for sure because I think again similar to what we talked about about how if you're in a deficit doesn't matter what you're eating like you can lose weight eating garbage not not that I'm saying what he's doing is garbage but you can lose weight essentially eating anything it's just how you lose the weight and what it results in from like a signaling aspect a muscle retention standpoint cognitive Health like some of these things will vary but you will reliably lose weight regardless of what you're eating if it's McDonald's if it's Burgers whatever on it Etc so with him a lot of The Upside I would say is ultimately that his energy balance is good regardless so as long as you're in like a sustainable model where you're not overeating like that's the majority of your benefit from the lwh hanging fruit stuff so like he is surfing daily he's exercising regularly he's metabolically fit and he's doing things to sustain it it's not just like he's eating what would be considered perfectly he's also not overeating it so to actually say oh is this you know the sugar and stuff good with the meat like it very much depends on what you're doing activity wise like if you're just sedentary I'm sure he would not be telling you like slam a bunch of you know honey and sugar and this and that too like it very much depends on what you are exposing yourself to um but again I'm not like a nutrition expert I don't claim to be I certainly don't like that field either there's a lot of like dogma and like controversial takes in it and um I think that he does uh potentially downplay the importance of certain lipid parameters that are like pretty reliably shown to be atherosclerosis concerning for sure and his assertion is that if you're metabolically healthy it doesn't really matter what your LDL cholesterol is or these numbers and it's like resulted in Endless debates between him and like Lane Norton who responds to his stuff and just like dunks on him constantly and then people who are on his side who say how great they feel too which is a real thing that's not to say that's not real but um to say what's optimal versus not it like depends on your genetics depends on your blood work depends on how you respond to the food itself and um yeah like a lot of the stuff he eats it's on the basis of it being nutrient rich and bioavailable and unlikely to cause autoimmune issues and like it's hard to argue with that logic when you just stop there when you get above and beyond that like okay is this much sugar good for what I'm doing is it sustainable how difficult is it to even procure these things because a lot of people are like I'm sure you had like a pretty arduous process very hard to find beef Tallow and relatively expensive it was very expensive yeah how much was it I it probably I mean 8020 grass-fed grass finished ground beef is about twice as expensive per pound as just like any other type and everything else is basically two to two and half times more expensive and I had to go to Sprouts you know you can't go to like Alberton or Ralphs or something like I absolutely don't want the takeaway from that to be don't eat good because it's expensive because like I think if anything you should spend good money on is food I agree however I think a lot of what he says has validity but I also think he uh leans a little bit to in the scare like fearmonger side of diet and he will extrapolate out from like rodent literature stuff that might not actually be super replicable to humans and then say see like you know soy [ __ ] up this rat so don't like ever eat this or whatever like and then he kind of like invites scrutiny by trying to like seemingly have like a bit of a I don't know myopic view around trying to like I don't know it's kind of like it's not it's not liver King at all but like he's definitely lean to the viral angle a bit which I don't think he needs to he's a super intelligent guy who people respect his opinion he doesn't need to do that kind of stuff so at the end of the day his diet model works for him it works great seemingly he gets regular uh Imaging to make sure he doesn't have atherosclerosis accumulating at least that's what he says and um you know I don't know like if you're hitting your micronutrients and your Macros you're not gaining weight and you like it like I guess part of the hangup is do you even like this food because a lot of people are just not going to like that stuff I tried his like raw milk like honey concoction the other dayed yeah he made one for me I [ __ ] hated it I actually didn't mind it raw milk and and non-pasteurized honey but again that's just like so is it realistic for for me to eat like that's a lot of calories too the raw milk presumably yeah plus the honey which is like a sugar bomb essentially is the most satiating thing I could be allocating like 400 or whatever calories to this like drink probably not dude so I'm not going to argue with the validity of its micronutrient density and the quality of the food but like perhaps it's not the most conducive thing to like my ideal diet so I don't think everyone should copy what he does I don't think he would assert in like a long form podcast either that everyone should copy him to the the money either he said that before he says everybody responds differently and he thinks as a general rule of thumb like broad Strokes that this is a pretty good diet for yeah I think in general if you choose from the food groups that he has asserted as good quality stuff like it's hard to go wrong pending that you're also doing other things right because a lot of people don't exercise and they don't sleep well and they don't do these other things to the real argument comes into the propensity to atherosclerosis and if you can avoid it entirely just by being metabolically fit which is super super questionable but he will tell you pretty aggressively if you are metabolically healthy like don't worry about it if you follow this diet exercise Etc like that's where it gets really finicky because there are people that seemingly end up with clogged arteries regardless of how metabolically fit they are and then he'll assert that that date is nonsense and then it's like this endless argument where you're not able to like prove one way or the other but from what I've seen I think you should be a bit cautious with I think there's absolutely a balance take where don't just blindly assume that you're going to be covered cuz you're eating a car for diet we should have Paul on the podcast I'd be down it would make a really interesting we could we could even go to him he's in Puerto Rico right or something like that yeah yeah he was just uh I don't know when he's going to be traveling next because I know he was just in Arizona and then he was just in Austin to meet up with me and then now he's in Puerto Rico or Costa Rica Costa Rica is that yeah yeah um yeah but I'm sure he'd be down man like yeah could be a fun trip I would love to go to Costa Rica that would be amazing yeah yeah I feel like most people's diets are just so bad so if you take his diet anything is an improvement yeah it's just going to be better than you know eating Doritos chips I think what a lot of the thing because again I'm not again A nutrition content creator necessarily so I don't have like extreme bias towards one way or the other I just want to eat what makes me feel the best perform the best and the least chance of dying like that is essentially what I care about so whatever gets me there like I don't really care what it is as long as I like it too and sustainable and I'm not going to e and get fat on it with them though they get like really granular about like proving each other are insane almost to the point that it's like it's uh it's hard to really like realize that a lot of the intelligent people on both sides of the camps are saying a lot of the same things and they act like it's totally different like just because Paul said don't eat oatmeal it doesn't mean this other guy saying don't eat red meat or something like a lot of people assert that there it's like vegetarian versus carnivore but often times the the people that Paul is actually arguing with at least from like the educated side of this equation are people who are like actually eating red meat regularly and have high quality you know Stakes on a daily basis and are doing the right lifestyle practices and this and that there's just the one disagreement that I see that has not been fully fleshed out where like everyone's in agreement on is how problematic is it to have elevated um atherogenic lipoproteins which is essentially like your your cholesterol profile like at a granular level is there a possibility to end up with heart disease even if you're eating the perfect animal-based carnivore based diet with the surfing with the with everything and this is assuming that it's in a regular person too because obviously not everyone is Paul with the perfect lifestyle and all the resources to get like insanely high quality food and like whatever so considerations have to be made and it was perhaps a super long ramble but like I think what he says has validity for sure and I think a lot of the food choices he has are you know questionably sustainable for some people and questionably affordable but also like you know they're still high quality there's no arguing there I loved the diet it's like my favorite foods to eat believe it or not like honey Globs of Honey on top of raw me or not raw meat on top of like 8020 ground beef is like it's it's incredible yeah uh but it just looks like it's just I'm just injecting it looks like I'm injecting my arteries with like cholesterol when I'm doing that it looks like if you saw a picture at the doctor's office of like what not yeah what not it's that but I'm like I feel good but it just everyone that would see it would be like what are you eating yeah you know no totally understandable I can see way people would think that too do you take creatine yes and I would highly recommend it for almost everyone even women and there is new literature emerging on how impactful it is on brain health fertility metrics and other things aside from just muscle now this makes me want to make another comment cuz I started taking creatine now I play pickle ball I play recreationally but I'm very serious when I went and I started taking creatine I noticed I got a lot heavier and I just felt heavy on my feet and I checked it with my other friend who skateboards and he's like yeah I could Allie like six inches lower that was like my Max oi height when I was taking creatine because you just get so heavy so quickly and you feel slower and bogged down and your arms yeah sure they get bigger and you feel stronger and you can push more weight in the gym but it just slows you down so one thing you have to consider too is in sports when you go watch an Olympic events or Olympics in general there is different categories of even like Runners check the body types of guys in the 100 meter 200 400 800 it's like reliably you will see a decrease in muscle mass of like double digit pounds almost M just because the guy at the 100 meter has more muscle it doesn't mean he's going to perform as well in an endurance event as the really skinny guy in like the whatever so to use that as a negative against creatine is certainly not fair like it's not Apples to Apples where it's like okay for skateboarding we're being lighter on your feet proportionally is more advantageous potentially than whatever upside you get out of it like okay in that circumstance how important is skateboarding to relative to whatever benefits you get out of this like if alling higher and not getting creatin upside is like you know your determination of more useful then don't take it so it is pro health as well as Pro muscular performance but in certain context like yeah maybe more not harmful but like less helpful for like specific Sports interesting okay I was concerned that that was like just overall bad for my health cuz when I feel slower on my feet and I feel like I'm just not as agile I'm just like okay that's just a metric of like this is something I should stop doing but I suppose if there's like brain function advantages and other things as well and then obviously pushing more weight in the gym looking stronger feeling stronger those could outweigh it what are your thoughts on ag1 yeah I uh think that it is of the available greens formulas probably the most rigorously or at least at least what I'm aware of like I think I've had like 50 plus iterations they've sponsored my channel before and I think in general green formulas it's very difficult to get an amount that is even something people would drink into a powder because it would be almost disgusting if you were to get like tons of greens into a powdered format so I think the limitation is more on the taste profile as opposed to like the formula's validity CU I think that the people behind it are really good people who actually like go out of their way to do good sourcing of ingredients are pretty mindful of like reflecting current literature everyone I know and trust speaks very highly of them like huberman speaks very highly of them Atia Etc like these are guys that I defer to for my own education so if I was to say a greens formula that exists I would be I would trust them more than most companies that said do I think that it's going to replace Greens in your diet no I think it's a supplement at best also do I think that you're going to get like a super effective amount of every ingredient that's in the formula definitely not there's like I don't know dozens of ingredients that are there some of them objectively perhaps to like look good on the label not in impactful amounts but I think also this is just sort of the standard for the greens industry so you can only put so much before people won't drink it and there's definitely some you know consideration of that as well so you know if I was to look at green formulas that exist from what I'm aware of there like one of the better ones we had a guest on our podcast Justin Waller and he said that when he works out his abs he only works out the bottom two what are your thoughts on that um why did he say that because you don't see people walking around with only the bottom two ABS usually the people have the top two or the top four and a real six-pack of ABS needs the bottom two so if he works out the bottom two realistically it's just the top four are going to follow suit did you ask him about spot reduction cuz like I would be wondering like if I'm trying to develop a balanced core I am trying to Target the whole thing I don't want to have like a underdeveloped stability in the top four rather than and just the bottom two like that's how you would end up with injuries typically I don't even know how you would really work just the bottom two like there's definitely waste the target we have a clip that went really viral show them the clip I don't know if I can let me see if I can find it there's no it I think it's one of our most viewed YouTube there's definitely ways to Target proportionally more down there but like okay right here found out 16 million views on Instagram there you go that's crazy I've had a sixpack since I was 24 years old when I do abs I only do the bottom two ABS how many guys have you met like oh I got the top two my [ __ ] Grandma's got the top two get your ribs ass I only have the top exactly come on exactly but if you do decline weighted abs like with a 45 on your chest and you only focus on the bottom two and you tote your head back so you isolate it no nobody in history of the universe has ever had the bottom two in this V taper and not have the top two you ever do a side plank yeah okay cool go up and put your hand on them make sure it burns and when it finally starts to burn bounce pul on that [ __ ] it up fight fight want to destroy it I used to do that two minutes A Time on each side you kind of get that 300 look I'm telling you you'll have a sixpack faster than you would anyway I try that it's an absolute Che it pokes through the skin why I just he wasn't convincing enough just going in the history of the universe ja probably realistically I probably just forgot it okay so like it's to me the stuff he says is not like inaccurate that that when would you see a guy with the bottom to not the top it's like well like yeah cuz that's where that accumulates so you probably wouldn't have got abs anywhere if you weren't lean enough so like what he says it's like that's true I guess I wouldn't but like it's I don't know like to me it's implying there's some sort of like localized fat reduction that you could get out of that exercise or you're going to end up with underdeveloped lower abs relative to the others that is not related to diet whatsoever so it's like I do think that that's like a viable exercise I just don't think it has the importance that he implies because at the end of the day abs are made in the kitchen I don't think he would deny that I think isn't didn't he say he eats like once a day or something yeah so it's like you know like it's his diet that is conducive mostly to the ABS so I would be shocked to see the difference in him having body fat vers not is like the thing that's going to make the biggest difference if you're training your abs if you want to hit the lower ones like I know people who don't train ABS at all and have better looking ABS than anyone I've ever seen and they train it indirectly through core stabilizing exercises that are compound movements I don't necessarily think you like need to do them or don't do them it could be useful if you want to have like a good core that is proportionally strong to the rest of your body but doing the exercise to get the ABS is like it's made in the kitchen at the end of the day so like I don't think there's any localized fat reduction I don't think it makes that big of a difference on the development of them where it's going to look way different like I think it's kind of exaggerated think it sounds like something you would hear like I don't know it's like a like a broth sort of thing yeah and not to speak poorly about his advice either like obviously the guy is in good shape and whatever but it's like I can almost guarantee like 99% of it comes from his diet yeah all right all right I don't think there's anything else left yeah is there anything that you wanted to talk about anything you want to bring up I don't know like what what do you guys spend the majority of your time on now that you feel is worthwhile in the biggest Roi for the podcast it would be travel us finding the time to go to our guests let's just say like like in your week though like what do you have of all of your trials and tribulations of having multiple channels reaction videos doing your like very targeted Main Channel videos podcasts like what do you feel like is the most valuable use of your time now honestly it's posting less is it's weird as that sounds it's posting Less on the main Channel I was posting three times a week and I did that for six and a half years and it wasn't until I think two months ago give or take I started posting once a week and the views have gone up since I posted once a week overall overall okay yeah uh doing shorts is fantastic as as far as my own time I'm I think I'm focusing more time on myself which I've never done before nice dude yeah like pain pain in the garage was a big one I spent three days painting the garage I love doing that um I got a blank canvas want to do some art that's so random but uh give that a shot nice dude uh and Home Improvement stuff been getting really into that I did my backyard lights uh in La did it myself and it's super easy to do you buy all the equipment online it's really easy you don't need like an electrician or I paid some dude 600 bucks I just watched how he did it on the side of the house and I thought I could do that and I did H easy nice for a fifth of the cost when it comes to stuff like that content like obviously on the surface you saying less content are you proportionally doing more elsewhere that makes you or are you better at like managing your not going insane while you're not working uh no I'm spending longer on each video but just because I have more time not because I'm actually spending more time on the video it's just it's the work is expanding because I have more time available to me that's really it um but now in the videos itself I got that down a science I mean I know the structure I know what does well I know which topics I could talk about it it just flows you didn't upake your output of podcast frequency or anything though we we tried we tried two a week uh for a little bit and we discovered it didn't work uh one a week was a sweet spot I think especially for a three-hour episode yeah uh people doing that twice a is just too much so we could throw in like a midweek every now and then but we found once a week is the perfect amount and then we could do shorts in between so as odd as it seems I think working less is uh to our benefit at this point how many people do you have on the team now for like editors people who clip stuff whatever so it's Graham and I as the host we have a producer that does a lot of the editing talking to Brands stuff like that just behind the scenes stuff we just hired him too so we're kind of training him we have our shortform editor that Clips up things for vertical content Tik Tok uh Instagram YouTube shorts and that that guy has his own agency we're just one of his clients we have an agency that repurposes our content to a Snapchat tile so we have that and they also do it for Facebook so we also that's the same agency there and then we have a few different random agencies and agents that we work with to Source brand deals I appreciate the Insight man yeah appreciate you guys having me to thank you so much for coming on man I really appreciate it I love this and we'll link to all of your information down below in the description so anyone who wants to check you out description thank you appreciate thanks awesome cool