You’re Not Fighting About Money or Sex—You’re Fighting About THIS | Unscripted Faith

Nobody enters their first year of marriage thinking it's going to be hard. But after the honeymoon, we soon discover it's not like the movies. Pastor Mike Noatne is here to tell us why and what we can do about it. Mike, welcome back to Unscripted Faith. >> Hey Angela, thanks so much for having me. >> I'm so glad we get to have you. Last time we got to hear all about your God story, but this time I want to dial in and know about your love story and just how perfect marriage has been. [laughter] >> Yeah. So, I'm batting one for one. I've had one girlfriend in my whole life. >> Um, it all started back in the 1900s, as we like to tell our children. Uh, we met at the freshman mixer at a little Bible college in South Central Minnesota. Um, it was God's providence. Uh, Kim was actually talking to her roommate Kora. I thought that both of them were kind of cute. And here I am, this insecure college guy trying to figure out my first move. And this other guy at that very moment came to talk to Kora. So I thought it was like a sign from God. I veered right. I met Kim. >> Two months later we became boyfriend, girlfriend. Two years later, we got engaged. And right after graduation, uh, we became husband and wife. >> Let's go. I love that. [laughter] I love that the Lord steered you right into her arms. So you get married and it's perfect. >> Uh, yeah. Yeah, that's it. Can we go to break now? That's exactly how it was. No, we you know, I like to describe it this way. I loved Kim. She loved me. I loved Jesus. Kim loved Jesus. But we really found out quickly that love and faith are not enough for a great marriage. >> Come on. And that might sound like a a wrong thing to say, but what we discovered was that so many of the expectations that we brought in about, you know, what money was going to look like or communication was going to look like or the holidays and in-laws or sexual intimacy, you know, all these things that we just had our own expectations of how it should be. Um, and for some reason, we brought that into the marriage, but we had never expressed it, dialogued about it, compromised, agreed on it. So, we had all these like unexpressed, unaged upon expectations. And that was really the heart of so much of the tension we experienced in those first years. >> I love that you talk about how it's not money. It's not these big things that we often times go conflict or you know we don't like the same things. It's not that. It's rather these expectations we don't talk about. So Mike, let's get into that. Share with me how can we recognize that we do have those expectations and how do we begin the conversation? >> Yeah. Before I wrote this book called Newlywed, um I actually interviewed I ran a report on our church software and I interviewed 20 like brand new newlyweds from our church and I took them out for coffee. I bribed them with caffeine and I I kind of asked them this question like what did you what did you think it was going to be like and what was it actually like? I mean for me I'm I'm 23 years in so I've kind of forgotten a little bit fuzzy those me you know we we forget about a lot of our trauma when it happens to us. So [laughter] I wanted to know like what did you think did you think you were prepared for this and then what actually happened and yeah what I really found out was young couples didn't know what they didn't know. >> Yeah. >> So if if no one told you to say hey when you grew up what kind of chores did your mom do or what did your dad do and what do you expect you're going to have to do and what do you expect your spouse to do or if you get a tax return or like a Christmas bonus. Um, do you expect that to be like free spending money from Jesus or is that like paying down debt saving for the future or let's talk about sex? Do you think in a relationship and marriage like you both initiate intimacy an equal amount? Is it more one than the other? Is it the the guy, the girl, both? So, I I think what we really found out was that we just never had these conversations. And if you don't have the conversations, you can't know your spouse's expectations and uh therefore you end up in a spot you probably don't want to be. >> Wow. you know, you don't think about expectations that you carry because even going into like friendships or or work situations. We do all carry kind of this unspoken expectation of what it's going to be like and and how we're going to function in that space. Um but we don't realize we're carrying those expectations a lot of times until we're met with disappointment. [laughter] >> Yeah. So really, would you say that in our marriages, these moments of disappointment are actually really divine opportunities for us to begin to uncover some unspoken expectations? >> Yeah, that's perfect. Yeah, every argument is a great opportunity for growth. >> So, you could be mad, why are we fighting? Or you could say, well, why are we fighting? >> Yeah. >> Oh, you know, classic uh kind of male female dynamic, and I know the stereotype isn't true for everyone, but you know, I expected this conversation was about finding a solution to the problem. You expected this conversation was just about like empathy, connection. I'm sorry you had such a hard day. Um I call these red light, yellow light, green light conversations. Are we going ahead with ideas and solutions? Are we slowing down to just feel for each other or do you just need space from each other because it's been a bad day. >> Great. >> So I I think when you have those conflicts and after writing this book, I I had one of these very moments in the car. Was it this past Saturday? This happened to me and my wife where I was just like we were expecting different things and suddenly we had like the biggest fight I think we've had in all of 2026 and I thought how [laughter] how did it happen? How did this I love you, you love me, we both love Jesus. Like how did how are we like how how's the temperature rising so fast? And when I stepped back I thought wow I I expected A and you expected B and I didn't know you expected B and you didn't know that I expected A and the result was this conversation we wish we could like control Z and redo. I like that you point that out. And there may be those who are watching who have said, "Man, I get wonderful opportunities for growth every day. I have these amazing arguments [laughter] that reveal unmet expectations." What would you say to them to begin that journey as a couple towards maybe calling out those expectations so that they can begin to walk this journey more um on the same page? >> Yeah. Yeah. I love this is fun and a learning opportunity. What I call a deep dive date night. So, hey, we're going to go out to dinner. It's going to hopefully be like a really good experience. And we're going to deep dive on a topic. It might be like chores at home. It might be in-law relationships. It might be sexual intimacy. It might be a financial thing. It could be the way we communicate. And, you know, I think um the book's going to give you a lot of prompts for that. Or just leverage the power of AI. Just literally say, "I'm going on a date. Give me 20 questions I should ask if I want to have a really great relationship when it comes to household chores. >> And I have a hunch those prompts are going to get you into conversations you never even thought to have. And you're going to discover like, oh, I never knew you felt that way. Oh, I I thought like I thought like cleaning the house once a quarter was great, but apparently you don't think of it that way. Or, you know, I think I'm mowing the grass and taking care of the car, so I got two things and you're cooking and cleaning and that's two things, but my two things take like an hour a week and your two things take 10 hours a week. >> Yeah. >> Oh, I I thought it was an even division of duties, but it turns out it's very imbalanced. So, I think those kind of deep dive date nights um hopefully give you the time and space. You're not squeezing them into little conversations when you put the kids to bed or you're running off to work in the morning. and it can help you just kind of unpeel those layers, discover the expectations, and by God's grace mutually agree upon them. >> That's so good. And I love that you went to chores because we all know in the house nobody loves doing chores, but somebody's got to do them. I love that you recognize that there may be some who are doing two hours a week and there are others that are doing 10. and to just have a conversation around how that feels, what that looks like, maybe how it can shift can really change the dynamics of a relationship. Would you say that as people walk as couples walk this journey of kind of discovering even for themselves that they have these unmet expectations, would you say that that part or that is the beginning to actually a healthy marriage? >> Yes. Yeah. There's two parts and you just named the first one. I have to figure out, okay, what do I expect or want? What do you expect and want? Um, that's number one. If I don't have that information, I don't know how to love you well because if love is just putting you first, doing what's best for you, making you happy, I I can't do that if I don't know how to. But the second part, uh maybe this is the the trickiest part is that I have to choose to put you above me. >> Wow. >> So, Kim and I have this little rhyme in our marriage. It explains It explains 23 years in one little sentence. The sentence is, "Me first makes a mess, but you first makes us blessed." >> Oh, I like that. Say it again. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Me first makes a mess. Whenever it's about here's how I feel. Here's what I want. Okay. Different expectations. Let me persuade you to do my thing. Me first makes a mess, but you first makes us blessed. if I can serve you. Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself up. So, if we're if we're bringing like the humility and sacrificial love of Jesus, saying, "Okay, we're different and this difference is a chance for me to humble myself and lift you up to know that you are my priority and precious in my sight." So, once I have the expectation, hopefully we can agree upon it. And if we can't, that's not my chance to like persuade and cajul and twist your arm and get what I want. It's my chance to lay down my preferences. Philippians 2, consider others more valuable than myself and and serve you in Jesus name. >> Wow. I love that. Surrender. Surrender to a whole new level within marriage because it's everything. It's every part of your life that you bring into marriage. It's not just like the working self. It's not just, you know, the church self. It's the whole self that comes together within marriage. Let me ask you a personal question here, Mike. What was the biggest expectation you came into marriage with that you struggled with? >> Oh man, we're going deep, Angela. We're [laughter] >> Yeah. I mean, if I can be candid, um, when it came to intimacy, >> Yeah. >> Um, unfortunately, I brought 10 plus years of an addiction to pornography into our marriage. And I I think how that, you know, that messed me up in a lot of ways, just spiritually, relationally. I think the worst thing it did, it gave me the expectation that sex should be easy. >> Wow. >> You know, in pornography, there's no communication, patience, selflessness, sacrifice. It's not a good time. It it just looks easy. He He's excited, she's excited, sex happens. And I think when when my marriage wasn't like that in the beginning, I got a little bit impatient and a little bit critical and a little bit like, are you okay? And what's um I've learned from my early years of marriage, asking a woman that you're trying to kiss, "Are you okay?" is not a very romantic thing to say. [laughter] >> That's not maybe the romance dial you're on there. [laughter] >> Yes. Thankfully, I've I've grown, but you know, that really was We're just different in our wirings as >> as man and woman in in our personalities. And I think the the baggage that I brought in made that expectation gap even greater. >> Wow. And so just figuring out as a couple, doing the hard work of conversations of what is this going to look like for us? Um, intimacy is so personal. You know, you can read books and listen to podcasts, but we really have to have good conversations and keep the communication going so that we can, you know, make this better and better and better as the years go by. >> Wow. How did you, Mike, in that moment, so that you realize you had this expectation and you weren't helping it with, you know, are you okay or whatever, how did that come to resolution for you all? Yeah, we actually ended up uh in a counselor's office seven years in. Um yeah, we had two kids within 15 months, which is not the plan, [laughter] and you took like a a difficult situation and just the pressure of of being parents with two little kids. And we Yeah, we were having like the same fight about sex probably every 90 days. >> Wow. >> And it wasn't because we didn't love each other. It wasn't because we didn't share the same faith. Um it's just the pressure of that moment and the difference between us. So, we end up in a in a counselor's office. It forces us to say, "Hey, are we going to like rebuild this part of our marriage in a healthy biblical way or are we just going to keep fighting and feeling this tension for the next 30 years?" And so, you know, by the grace of God, we learned to be patient. We learned to understand each other. We learned what works, what doesn't, what makes you more interested in sex, what makes you less interested in sex. And we just became like kind of doctorate level students of our own intimacy. And you know, we came to realize, hey, there's a pretty proven path where this gets better and better, even if it's not perfect. And there's a well-worn path where we've seen it gets worse and worse. And so, we're going to choose with the help of God to stay this path and not the other, to not think of ourselves, but you first makes us blessed. So, we kind of took that little rhyme, applied it to our our life of sexual intimacy. And, you know, by God's grace, things have gotten better and better over the years. I love your story and I love that you have 23 years into this thing and you're still uncovering for us more truths of how we can walk a surrendered life to Christ and to our partner. Mike, it is always such a pleasure to have you here on Unscripted Faith and we are so thankful for the wisdom you brought today. Thanks for stopping by. >> Thanks for having me.