Your Spouse Is Not the Problem

And we're doing this because Stephanie and I have a perfect marriage. And we want you all to have perfect marriages, too. >> Why are you grinning at me? >> Yeah. >> You're looking at me like I'm lying. >> If you put the spiritual first, if you get that right, everything else will exponentially and by design get better. >> What do I need to do to be holy? What do I need to do to walk with you? that moment and we see that and that is the dominant turning point for everyone who goes to the retreat and ends up in [music] these good stories that we tell. This is Dan Stephanie Burke. Welcome to Divine Intimacy Radio, your radio haven of rest, >> your hermitage of the heart, >> your monastery of the mind where we lift our hearts and minds to heaven to draw upon the wisdom of the saints so that we can navigate the tumult of this difficult life. And we're continuing in our divine intimacy and marriage series. And we're doing this because Stephanie and I have a perfect marriage. And we want you all to have perfect marriages, too. >> Why are you grinning at me? >> Yeah. >> You're looking at me like I'm lying. [laughter] >> Well, that would require that you levitate and walk on water and then, you know, that I'm billocating and, you know, I I don't know, showing up at people's bedsides praying for them in order for us to have a perfect marriage. So that would require two perfect people. >> That doesn't work, >> no trials. All of our children would need to be saints, right? I know. I don't know about that. >> Oh, yeah. No, no, no. I think they should be saints because there should be no, you know, no turmoil anywhere and, you know, the ministry should be, you know, anyway. So, >> yeah. No, I mean, obviously, everyone who's listened to this series knows that's not where we're coming from because we started with our own brokenness and and we continue with our own brokenness. the the hope uh for a beautiful marriage isn't about um the ability of each person to be perfect cuz that's really not possible. It's about the redeeming power of God in the midst of the marriage and both partners, both husband and wife yielding to that reality. Right. >> Mhm. So today we're going to continue on from on this series talking about the progress of the soul and how that relates to marriage. Um we mentioned in the last show that the church the mystics of the church have always recognized spiritual doctors of the church have always recognized this normal progress of the soul. Meaning there's a predictable pathway when people say yes to God as a as a relative constant in their the way that they live that they progress in a way where they become more deeply um like God in God uh more full of his power, his grace, his his love and then are able to give and receive that >> to the other. And the beautiful thing about this is when we started working on this retreat and trying to figure out what we were being asked to do was the idea of well if if that's true about our interior life and our relationship with the Lord, how does that relate to marriage? How can we make this how can we make a parallel to how you grow in oneness and intimacy with each other? because um as we are with God, so we are with as we are with men, so we are with God. So if um and and I think we could just almost do a full stop there and let everybody just take, you know, an hour of of quiet time before the Lord and saying, "Okay, how am I with with men? How am I with my husband? How am I with my wife?" >> Right? >> Um you know, what does that mean? Am I completely self-giving? You know, do I model myself on Christ in perfect selflessness? Do I put love where there is no love? You know, um or or you know, do we wrestle with everybody? And you know, do we are we irritable? Are we frustrated? Are we you know, whatever it is, you know, what is the what are those things? And how do they relate to our relationship with the Lord? Where do we need to turn over, surrender, give to God those areas of difficulty that come up in marriage that are there in order to help us to become saints? Because that's that's the truth of this. And as we go through this um the interior castles and some of the steps and the interior capsules of Terresa Vabila, we're going to discover there are things that are in the way to grace. But those are also the means of grace through which the Lord perfects us, purifies us and draws us to himself. And all of this is predicated upon the divine intimacy secret which I want to repeat every show which is marriage consists of four basic elements which are >> communication uh relational physical sexual and spiritual >> and >> if you put the spiritual first if you get that right everything else will exponentially and by design get better. It reminds me of the passage in Matthew 6:33 where it says, "Seek first the kingdom of God of God >> and his righteousness and all these things will be added unto you if you begin with your relationship with him and get your spiritual life right. You will you will make progress. There's no doubt about it." So we talked in the last show about this analogy of Teresa of Abila of how the kingdom of God is like a city she grew up in in Avala, Spain, where there's these big walls on the outside and then and then uh though Avala isn't like this, but it's it's actually common in in ancient cities like this. Then there's another uh enclosure in the middle of the somewhere in in the middle of the kingdom, if you will, where the castle is. And then and there and she speaks of this entering into the castle. And what is what is this analogy about entering into the castle is about entering into what it means to be an authentic disciple with Jesus. >> So you can sit in the outer court all you want which she describes as very dangerous. Um, I always use the the analogy which I think I've mentioned on the show of of being near a a cage, you know, where where you have a lion in the cage and >> you know they can reach through the bars. The the closer you are to the outer edges of the kingdom, the closer you are to the kingdom of the enemy. Mhm. >> And so Teresa wants us to get across that inner court, the outer court, away from the outer walls of the kingdom, which means we're moving toward the Lord who's at the center of the castle. And as we move toward him, we're shedding, we're being healed of, we're being freed of >> the world, the flesh, the devil, all of the difficulties and struggles that we deal with. And and as [clears throat] you were discussing that about getting away from the edge of the cage, you know, I I just got a a memory of my dad, >> um my biological father is towards the end of his life and he he was just so broken, so wounded um never had the human formation, spiritual formation, none of it in order to enter into the reality of what we're talking about, which breaks my heart, you know, like it in part It's what motivates me to love and serve people to this truth to this beauty of what awaits them because you know why does Teresa Vavala want this for everyone? Why should we want this for everyone? It's because we we need to strive and persevere to be holy, to follow the Lord, so that we can be safe with him in the next life so that we can traverse this, complete our mission, love and serve others, take as many with us as possible so that we can be with the Lord. Because in the end, if we don't, we could very likely find ourselves at the end like my father did, unprepared. >> Unprepared for the end. >> Yeah. and and that I know what he went through. I know >> the the end that he suffered and it was brutal. Yeah, >> it was brutal. And the spiritual storm that hit him physically, emotionally, spiritually >> and he had nothing. >> He had nothing left. Oh, he had nothing left. And the en enemy came at him doublebarreled. Yeah. You know, >> and I can only just pray and pray and pray for his soul. I'm I'm actually in the middle of a novena to the holy soul to the holy souls in purgatory for him. And you know it's just this deep desire. Don't stay at the edge. Come in. Why would you deny yourself all that the Lord wants to give you? Why? To self-protect, to lick your wounds, to turn in on yourself, to be less than who you're called to be. Run. Shed it and run towards the Lord. become who you are called to be and you will set the world on fire. >> And you know just to be even a little more base because you're the the church speaks of two different kinds of motivations in the traditional confeder for um the sacrament of penance and it speaks of you know this when we repent we say I'm sorry because I dread the loss of heaven and the pains of hell >> and that really is in part what's at stake here. It's if we're not choosing to be a disciple of Jesus, if we're not choosing over and over in the gospels, he doesn't make it easy. I mean, in the sense, of course, he says, I think, and even in the scripture passage today or the antifon, come unto me all you who are weary and heavy laden, I will give you rest. So, he he is our rest, but we have to yield to that reality. So if but if you don't which means becoming an authentic disciple of Jesus which means he said taking up your cross every day what are you doing you're essentially choosing the wide easy way which he described as the way to destruction. So fundamentally, you know, what you said is beautiful. That's the higher motivation, right? The the lower motivation is I don't want to go to hell and I don't want to take others with me because that's eternal torment and separation from God and it begins in this life and who wants to live that way when we have the promise of eternal life and a savior who's given himself so that we can know that promise. And then the next level of motivation like you described which is why wouldn't we want to live in love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness, gentleness, self-control. Why wouldn't we want to live in hope? Why would >> faithfulness? >> Yeah. I mean, you know, I I just my marriage with you is a place of hope. It's a place of peace. That doesn't mean we always doesn't mean we don't irritate one another. It doesn't mean we don't stumble around. We are, you know, people of the flesh. We are broken. We still have brokenness with within us. We still heal. But I couldn't imagine a better marriage. Even in the midst of e, you know, the most difficult day this year, if you multiplied that by 20, I couldn't imagine a better a better marriage. So, but >> there's hope out there, guys. >> There's hope. There's hope. And why wouldn't you want to choose that, right? You know, right? So when we uh we're not quite ready to go to the break, but what I want to before we get to the break is just Teresa spoke of two things, two realities that must be true for us to enter into that authentic relationship with Jesus. But she presumed a handful of other realities that are important. One is uh that we're we're never missing mass on Sunday. We're living in a state of grace, >> sacramental sound, sacramentally sound. >> Sacramentally sound life, which means we're not we're never missing mass on Sundays unless we're deathly ill or whatever. >> Um, >> regular confession. >> Regular confession at least once a month if you want a healthy spiritual life, twice a month, even better. >> Uh, so those are foundational pieces and she's assuming those are there. And then there are two things that most Catholics don't do >> right >> uh on a daily basis that are necessary for a a real turning a real real conversion real deeper >> entering into the reality of what it means to follow Jesus and what are those >> prayer and reflection. some prayer. She's talking about mental prayer. >> Yeah. >> Daily reading with scripture, entering into it, allowing ourselves or availing ourselves >> of the gift of prayer and contemplation when the Lord decides to give it, you know, because it's a gift. It's not something that we can do. >> And then the second part, the reflection is to grow in self-awareness. that we need to do this with and examine prayer would be the most practical way to do it of this where is God where am I and and how am I progressing towards this goal of oneness with him so we'll be able to touch on this when we get back and go deeper >> all right we'll be right back. This is Dan and Stephanie Burke. Welcome back to Divine Intimacy Radio in the midst of our series on divine intimacy and marriage. If this is encouraging to you and this is giving you hope or inspiration or or whatever um that might motivate you to to make a change but you're wondering how do you do that? We have the best answer for that which is what? >> Going out to spiritualirection.comvents. Yeah. >> And seeing when our next marriage retreat is. You know we do them divine intimacy and marriage ascent to oneness is what it's called. Um, and we do about three a year because they are intense. You know, they're it's two nights, three days, I think. Lots of material and oneness and talking and, you know, beautiful meals and beautiful time together. Um, but to share what you and I have learned through our own brokenness and healing and restoration. Um, we were asked to do this. So we created this marriage retreat and when we share it with others um what we have found is that there is extraordinary fruit of it and that gives me so much peace and motivation to continue through um giving offering this as often as we can. Uh we have we generally have one over Valentine's weekend and then twice two more times through yeah during the year. So very very powerful divine intimacy and marriage retreats. Um follow us at spiritualdirection.com read you know uh subscribe to our email list uh you will find out information there subscribe to our YouTube channel you're going to find all kinds of resources there >> and the previous shows we've done are on the YouTube channel on this topic >> absolutely yeah so check it out >> and just to say a tad more about that is is one a lot of guys don't like to go to these retreats because they're designed by women and the women make men act like women >> we didn't do that >> we didn't do that. >> No, no. You and I were in tandem like we need to do this. No, we can't do this. Let's try this. And and I just want to say to for the guys out there, I I don't know. I mean, there's all kinds of stuff out there and I know that some of the wives have drugged their husbands or some of the husbands have drugged their wives to other things and they're [clears throat] going, "Yeah, you know, we've tried it all. It doesn't work. It doesn't work." We haven't based this on anybody else. We haven't been to any other marriage retreats. We won't make you sing kumbaya. We won't make you make you hold hands together or share your feelings or or you know um divulge all your marital secrets at the dining table. None of that's going to happen. >> Um I I I promise you, you will come away better to the extent that you say yes. And when you come with an open heart and an open mind, >> we've seen couples living in separate homes, living in separate bedrooms um ready. We had one one woman came in and said I was gonna leave my husband and now I'm not >> right. >> You know just I was in the ma I was in the in the guest room. I'm moving back to the master bedroom. I mean there was one woman that came in and she said I this better work because if it doesn't I'm leaving him. >> You know and she left saying I'm going back to the master bedroom. >> My word. What a testimony. Right. >> And and just marriage after marriage after marriage. So, wherever you are, whether you're in a really difficult difficult situation and you're like at your wit's end, come to the marriage retreat. If you're in a great marriage, come to the marriage retreat. It's just going to get better. If you're in just kind of there, me, you know, come to the marriage retreat. It's going to get better. Yeah. >> You know, if you're beginning, if you're if you're engaged to be married, >> that's a great one. >> This is a great one to do to get set up. And just as our last testimony uh about the fruit of the marriage retreat is we've had so many couples that have come that have then when they leave send a note to their f to their family members to their children adult children with children and say we're gifting this to you. You you need to go. This is incredible and we will cover the kids. we're gonna come and gift this to you and not only that, we're going to help you get there and we're going to cover the the grandkids um while you're away. And it's just beautiful. We even had three generations we did one time to one retreat. That was amazing. It was so cool. >> Cool. So, um we're talking about this progress of the soul and and how it is that you come to union with God, which then as Stephanie noted when she said, "As we are with men, so we are with God." which is the my favorite summary of the epistles of John. Um it when we're walking the right way with God, that's when our marriage will begin to get healed. And often times people just don't even know what that looks like. You know, I think that's what's one of the things that's very powerful about the retreat and even this conversation is >> is ask is asking and answering the question. So what does that really really really look like? Like when I go home on Monday or when I when the retreat is over or when I'm done listening to this or reading the book or whatever, >> what do I do >> exactly? What do I do that that begins to shift the course? You know, just if I might make a brief diversion and this might be a distraction, but I I thought about it before the show and I think it's pretty important. There is one disposition that people come with almost universally that is the most problematic disposition toward healing that we work through the whole retreat to try to help people get free of >> and that is my problem is my spouse. >> Yep. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yep. Yep. That is the number one issue. the number one issue. I think it is. It really is. It's like, but you don't know what he's like. You don't know, you know, who I'm married with, or you don't know what she's like. You don't know what I've got. >> And the thing is is you have the spouse you have because you need the spouse you have for your salvation. >> I need to say that again. >> You have the spouse you have because you need the spouse you have for your salvation. Right >> now, everybody who's listening to this right now has just pulled over their car and put their head in their hands, >> right? Yeah. >> And they're going, "Lord Jesus, help me to receive this. Help me to open to this truth that there's something bigger here. There's something greater going on." And it is through the difficulties of whatever is happening inter relationally relationally that is what I need to rid me of my self-love. >> Mhm. >> Or whatever it is, right? >> Whatever it is, it's to strip me down to the bear so that I become authentically who I'm called to be. That I learn to love how I'm intended to love. that I became you know there was this beautiful prayer that St. John Paul II used to pray and when I came across it I've just I cannot forget it and he would pray to our lady make me translucent so that only his love will shine in and through me. That's where we have to get if we want to truly become the spouse that our spouse needs us to be to love them the way that the Lord desires us to love them. When the Lord gave me you in all our brokenness, my prayer that I begged him to give to me is I said, "Love him through me. >> Love him through me." Because I was so grateful because of where I'd come from and where you had come from. And I knew in my heart, even though I was doing it very imperfectly, that this was a profound gift. a profound gift and I didn't want to lose one drop of the grace that he was offering to us and I just wanted him to pour through me onto you knowing that it would heal and restore you and that in turn it would heal and restore me. So getting to that place is is one of the hardest things, you know, that a couple can do >> because it is true. And and by the way, I want to just exclude abuse and and what you said is still true. You have the spouse, you have, but sometimes that means you still need to you need to get yourself to a safe place and and not not live in that kind of >> we're talking about violence. >> Yeah. No, >> that's that's not the context we're talking about. >> But getting to that place of recognizing that the problem that I feel, all the mess that I feel, the solution isn't outside [clears throat] of me, it's inside of me. I mean, it's it's you and God. So, in that sense, there's the outside inside, but it's it's not about getting other people to stop doing what they're doing or stop acting the way they're doing. >> It's not about fixing your spouse >> because you can't. >> No. >> And if you if you don't come to that, if you don't yield to that reality, you'll never make any progress because we just don't have the energy. And it's also I mean, it's a demonic it's a demonic temptation as well. Yeah, >> you you know the enemy is going to constantly accuse your spouse and constantly tell you if everything if if your spouse would act a certain way, everything would be fine. And the fact is it's just not true. >> You know, the reason you have the spouse you have is to is to reveal in you and to heal in you what must be changed so that it doesn't matter what happens outside of you, right? which means you have what what you you're beginning to taste what it means to be in union with God, >> right? >> Because how is it that Jesus could endure all of the abuse that he did, >> right? >> You know, and how is it that the apostles could endure all the abuse that they did? >> And how is it that Mary could stand at the foot of the cross? >> Yeah. >> And allow her son to be crucified because she was completely given over to the will of the father. So, we need to get to this place where we stop trying to fix our spouse or or make them or injustice make them pay or make them do this or that and the other and say, "Okay, Lord, it's you and me. What do I need to do to be holy? What do I need to do to walk with you?" that moment and we see that and that is the dominant turning point for everyone who goes to the retreat and ends up in these good stories that we tell >> everyone in the retreat everyone who engages with divine intimacy in marriage the wisdom of divine intimacy in marriage when they come to the point of saying okay I'm going to focus on me everything starts to change >> everything starts to change and there's hope so back to the point of entering into the interior castle How does that happen? The sacraments are the most powerful means of grace for that reality to unfold. They have to be there foundationally. You have to enter in as fully as you can to the grace and and the gifts that the Lord has there. Next to the sacraments, there are two elements that Stephanie mentioned. One is mental prayer, which means coming to really know Jesus. Mhm. >> The second is reflection, which is coming to really know who you are in the context of who God is and desires you to be and and the plan that he has for you. Daily mental prayer, daily reflection on who am I, where am I, how am I walking with him. Those begin to transform the soul. So number one is recognizing only control I have is me, is over me. Number two now is how do I come to know Jesus and how do I come to know myself so that he can begin to heal me and transform me so that I can know what it means to live a life of peace and joy and patience. And then when you do that you become a conduit of grace into your home. And in most cases unless the spouse is just you know totally against any any effort. I would say though the vast majority of cases you become a conduit of grace and things begin to change outside of you as well. >> Yeah. So until next time, make the God may the God of peace make you perfect in holiness. May he preserve you whole and entire spirit, soul, and body, irreproachable at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.