“Your Diet Is Trash!” The Secret To Losing Fat, Building Muscle, & Living Forever | Dr.Mike Israetel

humans are wonderful and beautiful and complex and deeply flawed when I was younger I experienced quite a bit of feelings of powerlessness and they sat very poorly with me and so once I began to lift and get stronger I think started tending to my wounds hey folks Dr Mike here for Renaissance periodization why am I talking about this seems oddly self-infatuated why do you think we have such an obesity problem here in America I think a lot of people hypothesize that obesity is complex and controversial in what causes it there is no conspiracy when you get one slice of pie what do you want you want another slice and that's the real killer Ultra tasty food people willingly eat you don't have to take the drug you can just take control of your diet when you take the mentality of wanting the difficulty maybe what I suspect people who climb tall mountains and they look up and you can see the summit and it's so far away but up there I wonder how many other people thought they could climb it and couldn't how far does this go how rarified is the air if I just keep going Dr Mike is Rell thank you so much for coming on the iced coffee hour thank you so much for having me so appreciate it apparently you're pretty controversial okay and that's what the people online say so we wanted to start this off on a very light note nothing controversial at all okay what do you think is more difficult getting a six-pack or beating being broke CH is beating being broke I would probably say that beating being broke on average is probably more straightforward and with a few minimal assumptions I think it's just um linearly feasible whereas getting a revealed sixpack as an adult and if we're truly talking about the average American there are a few stumbling blocks that make it a One does not simply sort of situation the following will sound profoundly ignorant but I I can I guarantee you I can couch it with all the proper caveats and get very very uh very lengthy explanation going but U not being broke again assuming you don't have any crazy impediments such as a near total inability to engage in productive work assuming you don't have a a stream of expenses that continues to update itself such as you have lots of children for few income earners or you have uh a really intense medical condition that is not fully covered by Insurance outside of those factors and there are equivalent factors for the ABS situation as well then getting uh to be no longer broke is relatively straightforward and relies mostly on Curbing your um outlay of expenses in a way in which is accessible to most people now uh lots of folks in the comments will probably at this point say I come from an incredible amount of wealth and so on and so forth so my parents uh came here and took my sister and I I was seven she was nine from the Soviet Union so it's almost certainly been poorer than almost everyone who watches podcasts period and my parents had us living like this for a few years when we came to America the first time I had fast food in America was like a year and a half for 2 years after we arrived and we did not go to any other restaurants what did you have like do you remember the first fast food meal a Burger King yeah and we had it in Canada when we were on like our first vacation ever or something like that and U it tasted Sublime uh it was unbelievable now the first F fast food I ever had was actually in Russia when they opened up the first uh McDonald's in Moscow in 1990 I think I believe I was 6 years old we stood in line for like an hour cuz that's what you do in the Soviet Union and uh it was the single greatest food experience of my entire life what was so memorable about it yeah yeah yeah I I love this this line here so um you I had um like a quarter or half of a hamburger because I split it with my sister and a couple of sips of a um vanilla shake that's what I remember it was not a cheeseburger just a hamburger and the richness of The Taste was unlike anything I had ever had in my entire life Sublime uh religious experience I didn't know things could taste that good because in the Soviet Union the government manufactured all of the food and like they weren't indexing on taste or or quality or price they were like H as long as not too many people starve we good I think so the McDonald's experience was incredible but we came to America we had almost nothing because we like sold all of our possessions more or less in the Soviet Union and so roughly enough money to buy my entire family plane tickets and nothing else that's the standard of how were they able to come here what was that process yeah yeah so uh um the um George Bush ad Administration from my understanding allowed uh Russian Jews to come to America via the Asylum seeking program because we were like being targeted for pgrs and stuff like that and on the way out through the airport um they took uh pretty much all of our um uh possessions like jewelry and stuff off of us like to steal who did the government the agents that processed you when you left yeah they just took your [ __ ] and you obviously you couldn't say no or it was just like it say whatever the [ __ ] you wanted but then you'd just go to jail for forever instead of leave and go to paradise which is what we chose small so um the uh various elements of the American Jewish Community were super kind to us and they basically when we showed up there were people at the airport to meet us and they had set us up with like um month one of an apartment or something like that and um they actually even filled our fridge with groceries which was like kind to a level we had no reference for and just in general uh that set up the trend for us expecting Americans to be insanely nice and kind and we've never been let down like of course there's a [ __ ] [ __ ] every now and again you go to New York you know hey [ __ ] you the Philadelphia national anthem uh just an unbelievable amount of generosity and then as soon as possible my parents both got roughly minimum wage jobs and then we spent almost no money and uh though the food quality and abundance we were eating with almost no money in America was like leagues better than we had in the Soviet Union so just it's just incomparable we basically were like roughly the equivalent of upper middle class in the Soviet Union we showed up to America and we were like uh the poorest possible like zero value roughly and instantly our quality of life was like a category level higher how do you feel when people complain about the state of the United States right now and they think their lives are so hard I like I I typically like to view it from sort of two perspectives one perspective is that people um often have valid points and they have a different reference frame you know there's there might be some planet in another galaxy on which there's aliens that are like past the fourth Industrial Revolution which we're just getting into now and and they're like um functionally all of them are roughly billionaires some are trillionaires and there's no doubt like a billionaire alien that's like my genetic optimization didn't come in today like what the [ __ ] is the Postal System coming to like how am I waiting to be perfect for another day so um people get used to stuff and also many people in the United States numerically not fractionally have very difficult lives for a variety of circumstances some people are dealing with health conditions that are outside of pretty anyone's control because like we just don't have a good handle on the problem of mastering the human body some people are dealing with chronic pain some people are dealing with the uh long-term end products of their earlier choices in life which you know when you're a kid or a teen you do dumb [ __ ] um some people are in very difficult circumstances otherwise so when people complain about stuff a part of me is like bro that's valid and uh it's very good to listen to that stuff because people might not be 100% correct but almost everyone has something valuable to bring to the table that's the one side uh and the other side is like you live in the wealthiest time in history in one of the wealthiest places in the world and you live objectively better than every single Monarch before the year 1900 had ever lived like we all live in [ __ ] paradise and relatively speaking but um so that's a part of me wants to scream that at the top of my lungs it's [ __ ] wild when you think about it how out of touch we are with how terrible history was through most of History how amazing we have it and the way I like to see it is again not but let's figure out how to make things better and work diligently at making them better so that the future as it's kind of always on track to be on the grand scale gets better and better and better so we in 2030s when robots do everything for us we can [ __ ] about the robots having the wrong color scheme and Amazon [ __ ] up again how much of that is diet that the diets are affecting the way we think in terms of brain fog or anxiety or maybe us not being the best that we can probably a very small amount I think that the biggest thing with diet is that if you're eating a diet that's excessive in calories and you're overfat which is a technical term for even if you're not overweight you have not enough muscle too much fat it leads to a chronic low-level inflammation it's not really so good for any of your organ systems brain included and you might have kind of pulsatile waves of hunger if you eat like that all the time you do start to feel suboptimally and a lot of people report that when they start to eat healthy especially in the few days that follow they feel crystal clear and Ultra energized and that's mostly As a result of eating fewer calories and eating foods that are not so high calorie dense that they make you go uh you guys are like Thanksgiving dinner no one's like Ultra energized after that [ __ ] and I think turkey though has something in it you have to eat so much turkey it's it's like an um an amount you can't possibly eat oh really yes it's kind of like a little bit of an herbal Legend it's totally true has tryptophan in it but the amount of tryptophan you need to get uh like like the serotonin going to get you in a sleepy state is like a nonsensical amount like you might not be able to inject that amount of tryptophan so how often do you cheat on your diet although before we go into that we got to ask ourselves a question what does the future hold for business because if you ask nine different experts you're going to get 10 different answers from bull market bare market stocks are going up they're going down it would be very helpful to have a crystal ball at this point but until that happens over 40,000 businesses have already future proofed their business by switching to our sponsor Nets Suite by Oracle the number one Cloud Erp bringing accounting financial management inventory and HR 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was the food what do you have I was a week out for my first bodybuilding show I was dieting pretty wrong I was uh misusing uh uh various chemical substances I was using to be a bodybuilder and I I somehow rationalized that I needed to eat now because I was starving and I ordered like a pizza from uh dominoes or something and I ate it preposterously quickly came to White would call my senses but not really and proceeded to throw up a good deal of about half of the pizza forcefully and then I sort of sat with that decision and that thing that had transpired and I was like oh [ __ ] I'm really [ __ ] up and uh I believe if memory serves that's the only time ever cheat on my diet when did the desire start for you to start getting into weightlifting and bodybuilding and and sculpting your body in such away couple days ago I did pretty well tell me your [Music] secret um I was 14 years old almost 15 and I had done my first season of high school wrestling freshman year and I noticed uh during wrestling that like when people were more muscular they were stronger and they would just be better at it and in addition to that I have the unfortunate genetics of just having a pot belly sort of no matter what and uh growing up as a teen like that and having various friends and relatives point that out left me um mildly dissatisfied with the appearance of my body not in a way that was all consuming but in a way I was like ah [ __ ] I don't want to look like this and so I began to take some control of my diet though limited and uh as soon as wrestling was over I began to hit the gym and at first I um I didn't like it I didn't really like lifting it it was uncomfortable it hurt and then I decided to listen to some motivating music which at at the time it was my sophomore year I was in a big Rage Against the Machine Arc nice but I tried to listen to it during lifting and I realized that it was exhausting me because it was generating anger and anger was not an emotion that seemed to be sustainable for me in the gym and then over time I went through this journey of um listening to music that put me in a head space that I considered sustainable and enjoyable eventually I started lifting to smooth jazz which is curious because maybe like the most universally hated music it's like what your dentist plays to torture you in the office when you're waiting I found that I got into kind of zen-like States while lifting and when I was finally able after about a year and a half of lifting to recontextualize the pain of lifting as a good thing that I wanted to be there for the pain I began to like it and I began to see very good results and then more results and then more results and more results and then after about a two years I was like fullon straight up addicted and I've never been able to kick the habit so the ability to have progress the ability to see my body changing uh was just like oh most people don't take it to the extreme that you do like a lot of people will go to the gym myself included almost look at those those those biceps my God can't quite do this how did you get to the airport but uh I love going to the gym every single day if I if I miss a day like I didn't go today I feel it and I hate missing it but I I'm almost happy where I am now where I could put on an extra few pounds but I don't want to progress beyond that what what was different for you to want to take that professionally and to like take it to the to the point of competition I was never overly psyched about competition I can't say I've ever really like super enjoyed bodybuilding competition I was a competitive powerlifter first and I loved powerlifting competition uh powerlifting competition for me and powerlifting for me was an expression of ability the expression of unmitigated aggression I think like for whatever genetic and environmental reasons which I could get into my speculation about those but you know ad hoc stories are so easy to tell and so hard to substantiate um but um I did I I I experienced quite a bit of feelings of powerlessness or or what I would consider not enough feelings of um agency uh when I was younger and they sat very poorly with me and so once I began to lift and get strong longer um I realized like the sport of powerlifting existed and my psychological process for getting amped up for big lifts and then succeeding in lifting them like I think started tending to my wounds um and when you feel powerless for long enough anytime you can express your abilities in a way that brings you success and even the very simple victory over like I wanted to squat 400 lb twice and I did it that starts to get at some deep deep stuff and really starts to kind of rebuild the very frail almost collapsed ego to some extent and that for me was like just crazy crazy medicine that changed me I think potentially over time and made me feel at a default more secure and more able and it was really fun because when you know when you're a testosterone filled young man um I remember one thing I I I really liked was um after you you get much over 400 lb and you you're lifting a standard rack with a standard 45lb bar just sitting there the bar bends and it just bends like just the weight sitting there and you're like you look at it and you're like that thing that weight is bending steel but like [ __ ] all that it's never dealt with me before and that attitude cultivating that confidence you have to in order to lift that kind of weight that's so close to your limit felt magical magical magical magical and practicing that generation of psychological power that comes before the generation of physical power and force was uh it was insanely addicting and it was miraculous and awesome and that uh I think was a really big deal to me and kept me loving it for a very very long time so yeah um I have many many more good things to say about that but that's kind of how the process started pretty early I want to talk about diet real quick but first I'm very curious to know does it feel any different completely like your true maxing out if you're maxing out at like 200 versus if your true max out is like 450 does it feel different under the bar categorically different are you like actually pushing yourself harder when you're lifting up more weight even if it's like your true max like let's say you're doing a squat and you unrack the weight which is you take it out of the rack and you walk it back when it's just a few hundred lounds you just go bloop and it comes off the rack when it's much more than 400 lb you push on it and nothing happens you push in it harder and the bar starts bending and all of you is compressed uh my friend and colleague at RP Dereck Wilcox uh broke the alltime world record squat in a squat suit way back in the day uh 10 15 years ago and it weighing less than 200 lb he squatted over a th000 and he said it was like 2 or 3 seconds to unrack to push up and he was pushing up and his hips were lifting up the bar at that level is already pre-bent and won't Bend much more because it's a thicker bar and it's bending a little bit but his hips are rising and it's just spinal compression for like 3 seconds until it moves your face fills with blood a lot of times you'll pop your blood vessels in your ey you know what it feels like I tell exactly what it feels like if anyone wants to connect to that on an emotional physical level it just feels like you're getting crushed but does it feel like you're getting crushed like like you're the victim of something what it feels like to unrack a heavy squat is exactly the same emotion I feel when you hear like a [ __ ] heavy cord in a metal song like like I just feel that all over and you feel power just [ __ ] surging out of you and you go thank God I'm under a b cuz I could do serious damage like you guys ever watch Dragon Ball Z you guys know what that is Anime like power levels and like everything burning around you like that's what it feels like because if if it doesn't feel like that and you're close to your max your body's like [ __ ] this man I'm not going to do this but if you feel your Vibe a shitload and you want the pain and you want the crush like when the bar starts crushing you you're like this is what the [ __ ] I signed up for this is why I want to be here cuz that [ __ ] that [ __ ] she's cool that [ __ ] they don't want any of this not that you're singling out other people it's totally theoretical I thought about other people this mild exaggeration but it's just like um when you take the mentality of wanting the pain when you take the mentality of wanting the difficulty at some point it turns into like I want to see how far this goes and to to kind of finish my answer to your question from from before the reason that I I I got into this and incrementally made it more serious was um kind of maybe what I suspect people who climb tall mountains um think of when they're like uh you know they hit base camp or something and they look up and there's just a couple of frilly clouds and you can see the summit and it's so far away and they go man what's up there I wonder how thin the air is I wonder how many other people thought they could climb it and couldn't I wonder what it would be like to just go a little bit further once you get a certain level of size or strength you're like you know let's push the system a little bit it's like people who like to raise cars it's scary going fast in a car [ __ ] that your boy's not doing it I got friends who like drive cars really fast my wife used to race cars the engine's vibrating and the car makes a noise it sounds kind of disturbed and you look at how fast you're going like please God please God save me but to them it's kind of like maybe if I go a little bit faster it'll be kind of [ __ ] neat at the very least and so for me my journey of lifting has really been a lot about that of like man how far does this go how rarified is the air how exotic um is the situation going to get if I just keep going and a lot of it is just because of that and if anyone here listening uh has ever watched Dragon Ball Z the anime and it really spoke to them comment below uh but uh a lot of that was like one of my friends showed me the show Dragon Ball Z and it's like like uh the Japanese equivalent of like Superman Batman sort of thing but godamn the Japanese do it well and the entire show is basically about people who fight each other and various bad guys but they're superpowered so they teleport they fly like 1 th000 miles an hour like you know they fly past a bunch of skyscrapers and just Rubble after that um they punch like holes and planets um but that's the cool part for sure but the coolest part is they train and they get beat up by other people and they almost die and then they go man I've just need to get stronger and better and they they hide in a hole they go in a special room and for a year or two nobody sees them and they're there like [ __ ] perfecting their craft and pushing the limits and they don't even know if they're going to make it through training that's how insane they get I remember watching that at first being like this animation style sucks and then I watched it from for longer and I was like my God this is it it spoke to something so deep ascending that dominance hierarchy is probably the ancestral ap-like reason my brain likes it so much I felt low on the totem pole for whatever my [ __ ] reasons right um but it doesn't matter because when you start climbing the Domino's hierarchy only by analogy by just lifting more weight and feeling your ability set improve it's um magical fairy dust for the young male brain and it's magical does it help you get girls [ __ ] no does it look like I get girls you see any girls around here um I think like on technical qualities it can help you get girls in a few different ways one on average if you're more jacked than not um a higher percentage of females will feel like interacting with you in that female way uh though by a small margin and after you get a certain level of jacked which I passed probably like 40 or 50 pounds of muscle ago it's diminishing returns and you're just in the fetish Market at that point like if you like a gigantic hairy man I'm your guy if not you're like the the [ __ ] is that why is it looking at me it's scary I remember this this is like 2010 uh this guy would show women these like seven different body types and they'd say which one is the most attractive and universally it was the weird like the dad bod Justin Bieber which is kind of like the skinny you know musle or Brad Pit from Fight Club Brad Pit from Fight Club is undefeated he won by the dad bod was very close behind why do women like the dad bod cuz they can control it they can control God here we go conspiracy R build I'm just I I'm just saying like my intuitive sense and I could be please just rip me to shreds in the comments just please do it I feel like there's a chance that they know if you put on some weight that they probably can too sorry I think they think that they can put on some weight too and on top of that they probably think you're not going to leave if you're not like super high up on whatever hierarchy you know that they think you're G I'm going to counter please do it's because it signals a guy's not taking himself too seriously and that the guy who has like a six-pack might be a little too serious intimidating no I don't think it's an intimidation thing I think it's just the guy could show that he could let loose and just for a good time live in the moment versus a guy who's like no I got to go to the gym every single day 5:00 in the morning I'm not going to miss my diet a little bit more regimented is is less mysterious and the dude who's like all right I'm going to pull back six beers tonight beautiful woman what are your thoughts on this oh boy you know so far out of my area of expertise that I'm just bullshitting at this point I suspect it's same I suspect it could be a a combination of all the factors you guys listed for some women I think it's definitely a big part everything you guys said is true I think another thing is Dad bod signifies you're in the dad part of your life if you're ripped and lean and all that [ __ ] I think I think women who are looking for a longer term partner sometimes probabilistically totally subconsciously assess you as probably a cheating [ __ ] and maybe if not cheating just not ready to settle down and so you're nice to look at you might be nice to touch for an evening you're not really boyfriend material and if you have more of a dad bod you're in the dad phase of your life and you're a bit more tame you're a bit less of kind of an animal and a little less uh intimidating and scary and also you you don't seem like the kind of guy to go out there and smash you know 100 [ __ ] in a row or whatever and you're kind of like super lowkey and probably more likely to be monogamous um I'd also say that stated versus revealed preferences is a thing have you guys ever heard about that 100% yeah like what you say you like versus [ __ ] who you talking to at the club though hey Dad bod guy she's like yeah I think go [ __ ] Adonis over there he looks great I love I want to I want to bite every single one of his abs at a time and so uh a lot of times there's a little bit of that at play um a lot of this has like cultural elements and stuff a lot of it goes in waves Sometimes women you know really are feeling one thing another there's also um I believe a tie to the menstrual cycle when women are part of the menstrual cycle they want a [ __ ] like jacked bearded hairy lean man with giant hands to cover their face as he does whatever to them my word like bro have you guys ever read romance novels holy [ __ ] [ __ ] holy [ __ ] heard this stories I not Graham's got like a cigar at a Friday night leaving through a book like but uh that's definitely an archetype that women are like probabilistically more inclined to be attracted to uh during some times of their uh menstrual cycle and then during other times they go for like low-key dad Vibes and that other guy is like H like grotesque and super scary um and and that's also uh shown to be something that like um is a thing in men too like when guys are single and looking for meaningful connection they tend to prioritize their interest towards girls that look like they uh have like long-term potential like maybe someone who looks a little bit more mild-mannered not super hoard out uh no bimbo type of [ __ ] um and um someone who's a great conversationalist so on and so forth someone who demonstrates values like care and conscientiousness starts to become very attractive but um for guys that let's say just got out of a long-term relationship and they're kind of sick of this [ __ ] like it's just bimbos and hoes all the way down is the only [ __ ] you're looking at CU you're like Daddy needs to eat you feel me and then it's like a quite a different archetype so there's a lot of variants there um so I'd say that that that's definitely a thing but um grotesquely overmuscled people are just rarely found attractive by statistical averages now in the fitness industry um sometimes in some circles like the more jacked you are are the higher fraction of girls like you cuz you're just um high up in the local status hierarchy like I'll tell you this if you are at a hardcore Fitness Gym where there's tons of jacked people and tons of really fit girls and you're Ultra jacked and super tall and super heavy and you walk in and all the other guys are like [ __ ] like visibly like not disturbed by your presence but like Reverend um a certain fraction of girls so be like ooh ooh because I think it's kind of a known thing that um women will pure intuitive Vibes pick up who the guys tend to fear SLR slook up to and if you're popular with the guys some fraction of girls not all cuz some girls could give a [ __ ] um will be like hm this is this is the alpha male of this group and they can't help but feel some Vibes off of that I do notice though that for men that lift you get more compliments from other guys oh yeah like I notice even when like our friends are going to the gym and you you haven't seen them for a few months and they come back I'm like dude you look great yeah how'd you do that tell me about it and the same thing with me like if I've really been dialed in people notice that in compliment yes it feels nice but from that perspective of like increasing your probabilities with women or whatever um that definitely helps because if women see you in interaction and you're kind of the center of attention you're kind of getting complimented by guys and kind of people a bit reverent of you um you know some women are just not into it uh but some women they catch some Vibes off that and it increases your chances probabilistically I suppose if you're looking at it from that perspective but it was never my intention to get girls like this it never really worked either um and I've never really gotten a whole lot of girls so um well there you go we squared that Circle although before we go into that did you know the average time for hiring in most organizations is 30 to 45 days are you tired of a costly and lengthy hiring process simplify and speed up your recruitment by using the experts at Express Employment Professionals reduce to hire cut down on multiple interviews and lower your recruitment costs whether you're looking for contract workers or a new team member Express proos Recruiting candidate screening and hiring process is more efficient than hiring on your own check out expresspros.com today haven't used a staffing company before we know you enjoy learning new things and keeping up with Trends and efficiencies make a change this year with your hiring businesses are navigating a hiring landscape that has never been more expensive or regulated so start at expresspros.com to find the location near you with more than 860 locally owned offices you'll get the hiring support that you need at expresspros.com with the link also Down Below in the description thank you so much and now let's get back to the podcast so why do you think we have such an obesity problem here in America going from how dare you I think a lot of people hypothesize that obesity is complex and controversial in in what causes it I think on a technical analysis it's very complex the number of contributing factors determining factors facilitating factors is multifactorial and high it's a scientifically literate person as a former professor of nutrition professor of health behavior uh I have to AED to that that's absolutely just objectively true but I think that you can substantially simplify why we are uh as a country I hate that use that term I take that back why a substantial number of people are overweight and obese and we can rule out a bunch of things that either have a small role to play very small or functionally no realistic role here are some things that can we can rule out Americans have become much lazier over the last 50 years they haven't uh bunch of ways to measure this none of them add up okay Americans are lazier than all the other peoples of the world also not true also many of the other people of the world are also now getting substantially fatter so kind of puts that one down there is another hypothesis that it's something in an environment is poisoning us and making us somehow obese multiple layers of analysis reveal that if that's true it is not an Evidence and is mechanistically probably just not a contributing factor that who weighs in at more than a few percent and and possibly and probably zero it would be dope if that was the case like if I was like oh it's this [ __ ] chemical that's in our food take it out and everyone over a period of years just turns into Brad Pitt and Fight Club that'd be sweet you know with the cigarettes and all but uh that seems to hold very little water another one is um the idea that we're living in a a pandemic of ignorance and that we have an insufficient amount of nutritional education and that one gobbles up bigger fraction of the variance a few percentage points for sure definitely explains some things because some people are just like the way they live their lives sort of even know that they're um eating in such a way that makes them uh much more obese and they might even think like but I'm eating good that does happen but not as often as we would expect if it was a huge contributor to the problem so a lot of things just uh if you look at it deeply enough are either ruled out or just not your best contenders and um in included in that is people are not physically active enough and they don't work out enough but people around the world within a pretty decent margin are uh roughly of similar physical activity no matter what and uh This research is relatively new is about 15 years old but many people have not gotten the memo and they just continue to say like it's under activity it's not I wish it was what it seems like and the vast majority of the data if you look closely enough support this on theoretical grounds it sounds real good and it seems to explain lots of like you know it passes the real world test the no [ __ ] like is this really true in my life and here's what seems to be causing the vast fraction of the increase in overweightness and obesity not all of it but by a long shot the biggest part and probably the like way more than 50% majority of it and that is over the past let's call it 50 years people of the modern world and the countries included in the modern world are like rapidly like the number of them is increasing it now includes places like Mexico people in those countries have had two things happen to them at the same time roughly one is in their ability to afford food that AB has gone up substantially the probably best way to measure that is what's called time cost you guys familiar with time cost like how many hours of work you need to work to afford XYZ and you can actually do a Time cost analysis of calories it's like how many hours of work does a typical person with an average income even below average need to work in a day to be able to afford uh however many calories of food like how many how long do you have to work to afford a, th calories it is a true statement to say that for most of our evolutionary history the answer was uh it roughly took about a day of work for you to be able to afford about uh 2,000 calories in the sense that your entire day of working was designed to put your hand with food to your mouth like it was called like subsistance living or living off the land living hand into mouth that's how we [ __ ] lived and the situation got substantially better with the uh first Industrial Revolution which is the Agricultural Revolution better with the second way better with the third the electronic digital Revolution increased the per capita median gross domestic product of Western Nations modern Nations by like an exponent and what ends up happening is the average person and even people that are very very poor on average become able to afford way more calories than they need to sustain a certain body weight and that's fundamentally like one of the best and most beautiful things that has ever happened in history like people used to starve to death regularly it was just a fact of life for everybody and that's just not a thing anymore like how many people have starved to death in the United States in the last ever maybe I don't even know if off hand i'm could absolutely clown showing myself but I don't know if anyone actually starved to death during the Great Depression in the United States to death I don't know maybe somewhere in rural Appalachia barring like mental illness oh for sure for sure just so we don't have any people commenting actually for sure mental illness drug addiction that'll do you in big time um but like for a you know the bottom 20th percentile person who's able to work um it just hasn't happened in a very very long time so we're so wealthy now relatively speaking that we can afford lots of calories and like um that was already true in the 30s and 40s and 50s and we did not see an explosion of obesity we saw some Rising body weights but nothing crazy and here's why most people will eat an amount of food that satiates them and then usually no more than that especially if the food tastes it's normal like it's not what's called hyper palatable it's not insanely delicious bordering on addictive and not addictive in the technical sense but like [ __ ] you just want to keep eating it if you've noticed like um you can do this experiment with your dog don't cuz your dog has Health biomarkers you don't want to [ __ ] up your dog but if you feed your dog just dog food most dogs will just eat whatever food you give them and afterwards they're like and you give them another kibble they're like and they walk away cuz it's not that great MH but if you feed your dog human food especially like you know fresh meats that you cook up and cheese and peanut butter to what a dog's taste receptors and brain complexes for taste are used to this is like crack cocaine and so what happened in as an example the United States though this is happening all over the world and currently in Mexico it's like fever pitch is that once you have people that can afford kind of as much food as they want reasonably and once so uh we have a largely free market system in the United States and so people who sell food um they want you to buy as much food as usess is good for you and generally people like tastier food nothing controversial they like food to be tastier they like food to be convenient so like if I can buy food that's almost completely cooked or cooked already [ __ ] it's sign me up I don't want to slave over a hot stove and if that food is tasty convenient approximately located to me available in some places 24 hours a day but almost all the time and a few other factors and I can afford a lot of it because it's pretty cheap all of a sudden I want more food when you eat lean chicken and canned Bean beans not the flavored kind that the golden retriever on the commercials likes or whatever you're going to eat until you're full and you're going to be like ah I'm good someone's like isn't that delicious you're like no it it's functional I don't want anymore when you're eating food that is designed by capitalists by food corporations by restaurant tours by recipe cookbook designers to be as tasty as possible roughly as affordable as possible to within CU you know you guys are familiar Finance folks the margins on grocery store food are like [ __ ] how do they even do it how do they make a profit and so they're trying to drive the cost down big time and they're trying to make the food as tasty as possible so that you go into the store and you go I want that cuz it's delicious ice cream cheeseburgers potato chips french fries you name it it's so godamn good and one of the things that makes food taste good to humans because we evolved in an evolutionary timeline of um stochastic random periods of Plenty not so often and not plenty very often like hunger and people would die and all this other [ __ ] so almost all of our brains are wired to prefer certain foods to be tastier than others and one of the big unifying factors is foods that are very high in calories tend to taste better than foods that are low in calories someone's like all right give me a good meal you're like okay we have Fried Chicken where you take the fried chicken and you dip the [ __ ] in in the mac and cheese you fellas ever tried that [ __ ] or Dipper Fried Chicken in the mashed potatoes and gravy and oh my so good versus broccoli fresh take as much as you want the people [ __ ] with the broccoli and they're like I'm good really I'm fine and so because food is so insanely tasty relatively speaking so insanely cheap so unbelievably convenient back in the 50s 40s and [ __ ] do you guys know the um uh it's like an ethnographic constant in US culture has been for a long time Sunday dinner you guys know what that is the idea of Sunday dinner oh [ __ ] this is uh to my point back in the day Sunday dinner especially for the churchgoing crowd was a big deal you might have turkey you might have ham you might have a roast you might have potatoes and it was special it was very tasty but because tasty food took a long time to prepare because nobody's going to do it for you like Grandma had to do it and it took a [ __ ] 8 hours and because no one would just deliver it to you to the store and because it was pretty expensive to eat like that it was special um Christmas dinner was special Thanksgiving dinner was special and you chose the foods to be very what's called hyper palatable very tasty very high in calories it was an Indulgence it's funny that you guys said no because nowadays at most people's average income level in the United States they could just quite literally have Thanksgiving dinner every single day for for every meal it's not it's not a problem at all that changes things because now hyper palatable food food that's insanely tasty you want to eat more of is everywhere and it's not because of a food conspiracy there is no conspiracy Executives aren't in their offices like n see how do we trick the American public to spending more money on food that's what we that's what I've been seeing a lot on Twitter is like all these things that are in our food that were you know changing the water supply of like you know removing uh what's what's the thing in the tooth fluide from water like that could be doing it not doing it red die for yeah so like these things have been tested into the ground by professional toxicologists whose job it is to test in a variety of uh molecular cellular animal and human and then population studies to see is the [ __ ] killing us and to what degree and every single food Dy and additive that is used in food in the United States has passed some series of examination the vast majority of them like through the [ __ ] ringer Generations ago and updates all the time they consistently find that almost all food preservatives and dies some of the preservatives in high amounts like nitrates and stuff found in um prepackaged sausages and stuff they're not ideal if you just eat sausages all the time in moderation they're fine you're see almost no effect or no effect at all but uh some of that shit's not that great great but like uh food D colorings various additives they're tested to absurdity and it is just not empirically true to say two things one that they're that bad for you and if they are bad for you it's teeny tiny teeny tiny cost remember the sun is a thermonuclear permanently exploding bomb that shits radiation on you so if you're really concerned about food dies don't ever [ __ ] go outside because it literally is a thermonuclear bomb a hydrogen bomb in the sky that's blasting you and every time it hits your cells some of them like had DNA damage like that's what a tan is so putting that into context pretty much almost all the food ATS we have in the United States don't rise to the level of damage to you that the sun in regular quantities does maybe they're not ideal for your health and high doses but the idea that they cause you to gain weight is very curious so why are some of those additive banned in other countries I think Europe was one of those where the Froot Loops ingredient was different in Europe as it was the United States and people say oh that's because Europe understands the ders of like why the variations between certain additives and random Foods between countries most of the Banning of foods that occurs in modern roughly Democratic countries occurs because of politics most people have this idea that chemicals and food are killing us all and that they're bad and that's an intuitive idea is there's actually a fallacy for it it's called The naturalistic fallacy thinking artificial things are categorically bad thinking Natural Things Are categorically good it's just not true as a good heris it's just not true to use that rule um sometimes it's true and a lot of ways of consuming food that are more natural in the sense of less processed are actually better for you than consuming processed foods but the food processing uh by itself isn't a problem because like whey protein is highly processed but it's really good for your health it's amazing it's the fact that processing typically makes food super tasty and typically drives up the calories a ton and makes it so tasty that you just keep wanting to eat it and you eat too much of it that's almost the entire reason why food processing causes all these health malories is because it just makes you fat because you just keep overeating and your calories get too high is the that's with the sugar the fake sugar right that it tricks your brain into wanting more of it because it mimics sugar no no artificial sweeteners have been tested over and over they're insanely safe they've been again beaten into the ground and they don't seem to have that rebound effect in the vast vast majority of people um but just regular sugar when you get one slice of pie what do you want you want another [ __ ] slice and that's the real killer Ultra tasty food that I might add people willingly eat the reason food Mega conglomerates make the [ __ ] is because you buy it and I'm going to say something I'm not cutting CEOs and [ __ ] extra slack there is a slightly higher incidence of psychopathy and sociopathy in Elite leaders fact you can look it up a lot of them are makavelian people that are trying to rig any any system they have exploitation to but they're [ __ ] smart and they know they can't trick you too much because your dollar speaks so they're going to try to figure out exactly what the [ __ ] you want and get as close as possible to giving you that [ __ ] and if tomorrow on Moss the American public wanted [ __ ] healthy food every food company would [ __ ] pivot as fast as possible cuz like if you ask the CEO of Pepsi Co or something could they also sell a bunch of potato chips and [ __ ] like that same company huge mega conglomerate like what is it about full sugar Pepsi and you selling it that you just get off on he'd be like what like as soon as everyone wants diet soda which is categorically healthier than regular soda by the way almost everybody um they don't give a [ __ ] that's them retooling their Factory and three days later it's a [ __ ] diet soda Factory they don't care and I'm saying that both a good way of like they're not trying to poison you and in a bad way if they don't care that what you care and you are the ultimate Arbiter of what goes in your body because you have dollars and you have a choice do I buy this do I buy that and when enough people buy a bunch of junk food because it [ __ ] tastes good then what are food companies supposed to do they sell you what you want that's what they do and so the to answer your question about the year European other countries politically a lot of people think that um they're being poisoned by all these additives and largely this is not the case sometimes it's the case but very rarely used to be more the case back in the day nowadays like very very safe but people have these preconceived notions and they through various political bodies and various um expressions of their attitudes will approve of politicians pushing their legislation through that makes them feel safer by Banning various ingredients that have bad press happens all the time and in Europe uh people are substantially on average a little bit more left leaning a little bit more healthc conscious in know in a kind of uh I don't want things to poison me sort of way and they press their governments a bit more both through indirect polling data and active lobbying efforts to like keep them safer and a politician again politicians just like CEOs are normally decent [ __ ] people but some larger than normal fraction of them are [ __ ] sociopaths and Psychopaths Etc and lizard like eyes that have no soul they'll just do whatever the [ __ ] gets them elected and if everyone's like get the poison out of our food they're like yeah yeah yeah [ __ ] the poisons get them out they don't care they don't talk to toxicologist they don't give a [ __ ] ban red 40 who gives a [ __ ] and I I do I I have to say this cuz like um uh just to put this to people it's all [ __ ] it's all love and respect all jokes but at the same time I throw a colonel in here it baffles me when people who are antivaccine anti- the government regulating anti- the government pushing [ __ ] onto people anti- the government restricting people's Liberties anti- the government telling you like in the United States in many jurisdictions that you are not allowed to purchase or consume p uh unpasteurized milk you can't drink raw milk in much of the United States and these people are vehemently against that and maybe as well as they should be the vaccine [ __ ] I'm all [ __ ] jab me up I got all the Jabs I love that [ __ ] I'll die on that hill but sometimes they have really good points about all this other government overreach and Europe is like a no offense Europeans all of and respect jokes there's tons of great parts of Europe that don't do this but on average Europe is like a uh just mildly exaggerating a cesspool of government and Regulatory overreach and they pushed the covid vaccine on every [ __ ] bu minus a couple of exceptions but like you can't say like Europe had a more a less quotequote Progressive vaccine policy in the United States right Australia and New Zealand they shut everything down that horal situation say the same like kind of culture and so you're telling me that like you want freedom and all this [ __ ] [ __ ] the vaccine dope I feel that I love that Vibe but then on food dice you're going to point to Europe and see they do it really why don't you do vaccines like them like well they're wrong about that well maybe they're [ __ ] wrong about food dice too and the thing is is that controversial that they're wrong about it just like next time you guys pick guests for your show just pick like um just contact like uh you know various professional societies of toxicologists in the United States bring them on the channel they're going to say all kinds of [ __ ] that just straight up sounds to most people like wacky like almost everything you eat in food is not actively or acutely poisoning you and then we look at the metadata on what is actually causing the Obesity epidemic the overc consumption of super tasty foods that leads to exess calories over time and you get fatter and fatter and fatter and at some point your fat cells say like hey we got it pretty good and if you start undereating again we're going to start screaming at you and making you hungrier to get us back to that old weight what we were so once you gain weight it's harder to lose it because your body's new settling point is what it's called its preference for its body weight and goes up and the fat cells never really die they just shrink but if you build enough up of them because you're overeating for years when they shrink they start bitching hormonally and they go feed us Feed Us feed us and you get really hungry and you start eating again so once you gain a bunch of weight your body likes to stay there and look you have habits now and you is a real talk you just like to eat really tasty food it's so brutal to be like all right like chicken and broccoli for 3 weeks or 6 weeks or 10 weeks straight everyone's like H and some people try but the food environment which is a great term all the restaurants around you all the food at the grocery store all the stuff that your relatives bring when you're sick it's all all a lot of it is ultra high calorie Ultra delicious Ultra convenient Ultra cheap it's a recipe for obesity and that's the biggest factor that causes obesity in the United States people go to McDonald's frankly to eat McDonald's and McDonald's is not Ultra healthy and when people go and eat McDonald's the vast majority of them not all of them there is an education problem we can address smaller than most people think the vast majority they know it's McDonald's you guys they know it's so [ __ ] so is this a problem that even needs to be solved or is this just human nature people are going to do what they want to do let them if they want to eat it that's on them as a very liberty-minded person I absolutely say let them because in a sense of how dare we tell people what to do with their own private lives I might add on the one hand for sure but on the other hand humans evolved in a time where hyper palatable food simply was not around because that's the case where um there's a big mismatch between our environment in our natural body's ability to regulate hunger signaling and there is a lot you can do on the educ a side of telling people look this is a thing and so when you are eating a bunch of snacks that taste really good that road often leads to just getting fatter you don't want any part of that so when you're going out to get food you should be targeting minimally processed foods lots of lean meats veggies fruits whole grains and healthy fats like nut Butters avocado oil olive oil canola oil things like that yes I said canola oil please look up the literature before you talk that [ __ ] so I went down and a bit of a rabbit hole maybe six to eight months ago and I started getting into like the animal-based diet I started watching a lot of like Paul saladino so I started kind of dabbling and I made my first ever animal based diet meal I went out bought like grass-fed grass-finished beef did it taste good and then I I put the beef and the cheese together and I drizzled raw honey on it and I ate it and I'm like there's no way this is that healthy you f your way out of the carnivore diet I made I made the plate exactly as he told me to and it tasted delicious and it's just like ground beef and cheese and a huge mound of it yeah and I thought like I looked at it you got tricked man and I made it I made it with my friend and we we were like all into it together listening to all his podcast we finally did it I looked at him and we just started dying laughing because and and it was such a beautiful moment and I have a picture on my phone I'll try to put it up on the screen right now but there's no way that was healthy because it just tasted way too good and but but he makes sense to the intuitive brain if you think about it even a decent amount as long as you're not like a an expert in nutrition it makes sense if you don't get grain-fed beef because then they put different what do you call the the things that you put on grain not the hormones but pesticides yeah pesticides and it go through your entire safe they've been tested repeatedly almost every American and almost everyone who sprays pesticides for a living sees almost no if if if not zero statistical harm in any measurable way from pesticides this is again one of these things where I'm not a toxicologist but I swear to God there's got to be hundreds of toxicologists watching this and throwing [ __ ] at the screen and cheering right now because godamn it they say this [ __ ] all the time and nobody [ __ ] listens to them but you mentioned toxicologist and I will say like now it's so difficult people will always scrutinize us for having different people on our show with opinions that just don't agree with what their opinion is the problem is you can find an expert because they be like well actually some Noble laurates disagreed with what your guest said and I'm like well you can find an expert that supports any opinion ever and that's the hard part is someone that's trying to find truth in terms of nutrition is like you find people that are you know doctors and then you find some other nutritionists that they're all saying different things and it's so hard to find what is the actual truth is Diet Coke fine to drink yeah we're all wondering that's absolutely we're all wondering what the actual truth is in terms of how do you have a healthy diet yeah it's absolutely fine and um if you take the position stands of modern uh uh toxicology associations if you take the position stands of various Regulatory Agencies like the US Department of Agriculture and so on and so forth they have roughly the same opinions and have had roughly the same opinions for like a generation and a half on all the stuff say another thing you know the USDA food guide pyramid the classic one with all the [ __ ] grains at the bottom the oils uh little oils at the top and stuff um a little bit of an interesting take on nutrition but not wrong not wrong at all totally fine if you eat according to that pyramid and uh part of the pyramid is usually and to eat a um c a diet that's balanced in calorie needs so that you don't you know gain excessive weight um if you do that it's great uh and so people will say like oh like the um you know the the USDA food guide pyramids steered us wrong there's a Preposterous and hilarious assumption there with those of us involved in health education that Anway gave a flying [ __ ] about the food guide pyramid and that somehow millions and millions of people actually followed government standards do you guys know anyone who follows the government standards of exercise prescription or how often to see their doctor or how often to change you know the oil in your car there's all these normative prescriptions that people give out nobody gives a [ __ ] no hardly anyone ever followed the food guide pyramid people just eat really tasty food and and they're going to hack their way to eating tasty food and a lot of it when given the opportunity nine times out of 10 although before we go into that are you looking to cut costs and improve your business's bottom line if so the best business operators have turned to our sponsor ramp to help cut wasteful spending and improve their Finance operations ramp is the corporate card and spend management software designed to help you save time and put money back in your pocket with ramp spend policies are built into the card to control spending before it even happens it automatically collects and categorizes receipts so you'll never have to chase them down again plus ramp enforces compliance by flagging violations and locking cards for non-compliance basically speaking if we have a card for the the iced coffee hour and Graham wants to go use that card to go buy himself some coral for his aquarium he will get flagged and his card's going to get locked so don't do that Graham ramp also help streamline your entire Financial workflow from expense 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to hack their way to eating tasty food and a lot of it when given the opportunity n times out of 10 but what about eating steak like daily every single day having a big hunk of steak would you consider that an unhealthy thing to do a healthy thing to do I heard you say on a podcast that I thought was really fascinating if you're in good shape then that virtually combats everything yeah you can eat most things and you shouldn't have to worry so much about cholesterol or so much about all these different things that everyone is always so frightened of as long as you just are not fat you have a decent amount of muscle and not a lot of F if you're pretty Physically Active if you eat mostly nutritious food from the categories I just mentioned lean meats veggies fruits whole grains healthy fats e even if you bias one of those categories largely in one way or another for example if you eat mostly lean meats and even some fatty meats are okay you eat plenty of veggies but you eat almost no fruits and zero grains and you're eating in such a way that you're of a healthy body weight you're physically active you have some muscle mass you've taken care of like probably 95% of all of the impact of nutrition on your health there is an argument for that 5% on the margins for sure but if your diet includes daily big hunk and old steak but you're not eating in a caloric excess on most days you're of a healthy body weight like you two fine young gentlemen here and you're physically active you are taking care of all the big rocks and you're totally fine and so the vast majority of nutritionists who are availed to the data will say like yes if you want to eat a steak a day and your blood work looks good and you are not gaining weight uh over time and you're physically active rock on steak's great and I could have said almost any other food and it would have been totally fine you can even have a diet where you eat a substantial amount of pretty processed foods but if you don't get into a caloric Surplus and you still eat enough foods that are nutritious get enough vitamins minerals phytochemicals Fiers things like that then you can even stuff a pretty decent amount of junk into your diet and as long as you're not overeating and you don't gain weight you're getting like 85% of the health benefit now if you reduce the junk substantially you go up to 95% and uh at that point like there are a variety of diets a keto diet works great Vegan Diet Works greato paleo is awesome it's an awesome diet but listen if your idea the paleo diet it's drizzle honey on everything you [ __ ] eat it was tasty it so was so good right and then just like start gaining weight again paleo diet is not going to save you you can gain weight on almost every diet I will say the carnivore diet is difficult to gain weight on because like just eating slabs of steak and nothing else there only so much of that [ __ ] you're going to eat but that's a palatability thing um if you it used to be true that vegans were some of the leanest and healthiest people that you would study statistically as a group it was truly 80s it was true in the '90s it was true in the early 2000s and then veganism exploded on popularity as well as it should because like there's a very very compelling argument from an Ethics perspective and an environmental perspective about how animals are bad to kill I have all the love for that in the world I think it's dope and then so more and more people began to be vegan a lot of them thought like oh veganism is healthier because it was and then guess who found out that people were more vegan more often major grocery stores and food producers and guess what they started doing they started making processed vegan food and not cuz processing is like some evil plan cuz it makes the food cheaper and shelf life is greater and it's more convenient and guess what drum roll it's tastier and so now you have vegan chocolate cake you got vegan [ __ ] hot dogs you got vegan pasta you got vegan everything and now it is no longer true to say that veganism is some kind of shortcut to health it used to be and now it's like dude if you're vegan like you got to be make sure you get enough protein and just don't eat tasty breakfast cereal for every meal of the day and I have a variety of personal trainer friends that will say like dude some of my vegan clients are in the worst shape of everyone and here's the big problem they think being vegan somehow inoculates them and they're like I'm but I'm vegan yeah but you eat exclusively processed food and yo vegan junk food is a thing and it's so good I used to eat these giant [ __ ] brownies from Whole Foods that were vegan you guys it was like sex in my mouth and I'm like I don't need animal fats in this it's great without them but it's a [ __ ] 700 calorie brownie and that [ __ ] going down ASAP bro I need two bites for that thing it's amazing but it's vegan and so if you think that you can eat a ton of Highly processed food that's super delicious eat it with no restraint whatsoever and that you're going to be AOK okay you got another thing coming and the way that's going to likely reflect is that you're going to get more heavy more fat you're going to go see your doctor and it be like your blood work sucks and they give you the usual [ __ ] of try to eat a better diet and lose weight and you're going to be like my doctor doesn't know nutrition which might be true but fundamentally at some point because I'm sort of pro Liberty in many regards sort of extremely Pro Liberty I think that availing people to this kind of information is awesome and giving them the tools with which to succeed is awesome and then at some point you just got to kind of be like do what you will you know like adults are allowed to make their own choices and and and sometimes they make choices that we don't agree with and just bees like that you know um I think that um because our ancestral environments designed us for the wrong food environment I think sometimes a pharmaceutical option is a big help drugs like uh OIC uh and and mararo and things like that you guys know about the new like weight loss drugs what they do is they the drugs are like they're not perfect there some side effects um but uh if you manage the side effects well the drug dose is like a turn dial for how much food drive you have like how much you fantasize about food how hungry you are how get full the full the whole thing and so because with the free market and it and its Brilliance um offered us all these super tasty super cheap super convenient foods and now they're around um if you take these drugs even in the presence of these food it turned dials you down so that you look at a bag of chips and usually like I want it now you're like eh and you can e a chip and be like that was good and someone's like do you want another one you're like H and so that's really dope it's super effective it it's one of the most effective things that's ever this one of the like a blockbuster series of drugs and more to come these drugs are going to get better Lower Side Effects better main effects and all these different Pathways they have drugs now in testing that actually boost your metabolic rate as well I mean this is like a huge Renaissance that's happening right now these are wonderful wonderful things however you don't have to take the drugs you can just take control of your diet and start eating mostly minimally processed foods that aren't the tastiest [ __ ] thing in the world I use a dichotomy in my own eating I have business meals and I have fun meals business meals are like the [ __ ] I eat dayto day to keep me awake and alive and keep muscle on my body and give me energy to go like do things and that means they're like mostly like broccoli slaw and rice and chicken and ground beef and like you know [ __ ] that you look at and you're like uh like if a restaurant served it they would go out of business in a few days cuz everyone's like why the hell am I paying money for this [ __ ] if you eat most of your food like that and listen you could actually make it quite tasty but like fruit and veggies and lean meats and then your calories are really really low and controlled and you're eating like a king but it's going to take some effort and some willpower but if you're just always reaching for that [ __ ] Pine of ice cream you know reach for the Halo top instead it's a third of the calories but people eat Halo top and they're like oh it doesn't have that creaminess that Ben and Jerry has and and it's totally true and so if you make a decision to eat healthier and you just talk to chat GPT or Claude or Nova or any of the models about like how do I eat in a way that constrains my calories and I heard that like eating too much tasty food is bad they're going to let you know all about that [ __ ] it's it's not rocket science but you you're an adult you got to do the [ __ ] and you don't even need o empik and stuff now some people they've gotten so overfat that those hungry screaming fat cells they're not going to stop screaming if you start eating healthy and it'll help a ton that you're eating healthy you start losing weight but it'll be a battle and then if you take those drugs if you choose they're insanely powerful tools to for the average obese person are better off that they take them than not take them because people say what about the side effects legit most of the side effects are quite benign and easily controllable and as a matter of fact if you eat mostly healthy foods you get like a fraction of the side effects if you're still jamming Pizza down your throat you're going to get some tummy aches you're going to get some worse stuff but if you think about it this way there are side effects and downside risks to these drugs they're known and statistically possible to represent them as like here's how much harm they do the conversation cannot there because the conversation has to be like okay but how much harm is obesity doing Valas it's not even close it's like you know when a kid is really sick like sick sick and they have to get a shot that's going to cure them they resist the shot because it's going to pierce my skin and hurt me they no you have to hold him down and give him a shot but like if you could like calm a kid down and somehow Elevate their IQ really quickly to like an adult level you could be like okay so like this disease is going to straighten up maim you or kill you do you want that no the shot is going to hurt and you're not going to feel good for a few hours but then you'll be cured which one do you want they're going to be like were you kidding me give me the [ __ ] shot look okay but you're going to start resisting as soon as we tune your H back down you go back to being a child like just muffle my face hold my hands and do it I approve go so in much the same way yeah these drugs aren't perfect and yeah they have their downsides and they're not appropriate for everyone it's a very deep conversation to have with your doctor and then once you are on the drugs it's a really really really really really good idea for you to take very much control of your nutrition to help the drugs have fewer downsides and help Prime them for their main effects but if you're saying why I want to take these drugs they have side effects please remember the side effect of obesity is like Mass death and disease and that's not really up for debate so it has to be balanced perspective drugs are not a be all save all cure all but on average they're real awesome tool that's worth considering for most people uh most people that have a body weight problem it's substantial what are some of the other things that people are doing that are destructive that they might not be aware of just filling their hearts with hate you know man sorry I should be high in marijuana when I say [ __ ] like that um having an insufficient amount of sleep chronically much of the literature on people who uh work various odd hour shifts is like you don't want to look at that data because it's I don't say scary but like somewhere between scary and depressing um that's not great and there's this kind of situation that a lot of people will reflect where they'll be like yeah my sleep sucks well and it's kind of treated as like an inconvenience it's not just an inconvenience good sleep is like damn near a Panacea not in the sense it'll cure everything but like it makes everything better enough sleep enough high quality sleep and some people just don't attend to that and and it also makes you lose muscle and gain fat if you undersleep and it also makes you more likely to eat super tasty junk Foods when you're underslept so that whole thing is really [ __ ] um fewer and fewer people now statistically but um alcohol consumption it's probably still true to say that like a glass of wine every now and again is roughly neutral for your health at least in the medium term more studies coming out now that in the long term even that might not be great it's a very small downside but it might actually be a downside and that any more than like two or three drinks regularly every few nights is like it's going to add up and it's going to bite you in the ass later and many more drinks than that is a real bad deal like a ton so some people have like you know four beers with dinner that's poison is not really any other way to say that another thing is physical activity physical it is a very poor for weight control it just doesn't burn enough calories to really take the calories out of like you can eat up three twinkies and cancel out like six miles of running but for about 15,000 different reasons uh moderately high level of physical activity including some resistance training is profoundly good for your health and wellness in like again a trillion different ways and most people do not get enough physical activity by a pretty small margin but multiply a small margin over years and years and years and you get some nasty [ __ ] and most people are underused relatively speaking and they would if they engage in any kind of physical activity that's better for them probably won't lose much more weight but they will almost certainly become substantially healthier so that's another big one another one is um chronic high levels of stress and how people deal with them stress Management's a big deal um chronic high levels of stress cause an increase in like U probability that you'll be done in by like almost every kind of disease it weakens your immune system and makes you more prone to obesity and all this other crazy [ __ ] and um sometimes maybe in many cases stress is kind of foisted upon you like you just don't have a [ __ ] Choice like life's just [ __ ] hard but sometimes we do have a choice on how we manage our stress and some people um just kind of assume the frazzled dazzled lifestyle is like the default and they won't take the necessary steps to d-stress and so that's another big deal that I think is in the grand scheme of like overeating under exercising under sleeping and overstressing chronically uh you add all that up man that's a lot of [ __ ] in terms of stress is a zero stress lifestyle beneficial like if you make your goal to have zero stress whatsoever any stress confronts you you avoid it at all costs in a actual like stressfree way not in terms of just like you know smothering it is that good for you probably not um probably the best kind of relationship you can have with stress is a pulsatile relationship within a certain boundary layer so if you don't get enough stress um usually you will experience profound boredom and that will lead to all sorts of not so great things um a lot of times it'll just make make you very sad and that also has bad Health consequences and there are a variety of body systems that actually do better with some stress and without exercise is stressful fact mentally straining yourself is also stressful and it's very very good for your brain but if you have chronic high levels of stress your body never gets a chance to recover and it's always getting beaten down so if the levels of stress are too high or they're kind of semi-permanent or permanent like day in day out night Night Out stress stress having a ton of [ __ ] on your mind all the time that kind of stuff not great so zero stress is bad chronic elevated stress is bad the best kind of stress is stress that you can recover from but occurs in waves a real tough several days at work and then an amazing long weekend of relaxation that's probably the kind of balance that will get you the most out of Health longevity and quality of life so if you've never stressed yourself you never do not not ideal if you're always overstressed not ideal if you're occasionally stressed sometimes push to your limits it challenges you and helps you grow and it's good for you in almost every respect but if that sticks around it starts to get bad so uh mixing periods of high stress with periods of very low stress and relaxation and Recovery which includes in the 24-hour cycle getting some [ __ ] sleep watching a bit of TV or playing some board games with your family really relaxing and it over the course of the week like that's why we have weekends and over the course of the year the takeing vacations de-stressing and so on and so forth those are things that can really really be awesome and it's not low stress that's the answer it's higher stress and then pull back higher stress and then pull back that's probably uh my reading of the literature is that that's probably the best way to do things what do you think about what Brian Johnson is doing in terms of maximizing age I've always been a fan of vampires and uh the lore is great um I think Brian Johnson is doing a really interesting thing which is he is trying to explore almost every potential Avenue of slowing down aging possibly reversing it in some sort of subsystem ways and we're in a place where technologically especially with biotech our ability to like really change the body at a molecular level so our level is like low in the grand scheme of what it could be be and so most of the stuff he does um works on the margins like it definitely helps in many regards but not by much some of the stuff he's doing we don't know if it helps some of the stuff he's doing it is probably true to say it if it helps it helps a little bit and it just might not help hardly at all but he has a really open-minded attitude and a very exploratory attitude so he's trying to try all the stuff and cycle through test on his body see what works see what doesn't kind of a huge n of one sample and and I think you know most of us don't have the you know billionaire throughput to be able to do some [ __ ] like that but he's in a small sense but important sense leading the way to getting people availed to the fact that like yes some of the stuff he does is like very well established to uh help you age slower like for example getting really good high quality sleep and enough of it if you actually talk to Brian Johnson he's like yeah like these pills and potions and powder some of them have some real promise some of them I don't know if they do anything but I'm trying but like the big rocks of Stress Management of good nutrition of having good body composition of getting enough physical activity and of sleep bro he's got that [ __ ] handled front to back what makes Awesome YouTube clips for Brian and for the people investigating him is like you know him waking up and like you shooting [ __ ] blue light at his face or whatever the [ __ ] and there's absolutely situation in which like that might actually have some good Roi um but a lot of what he talks about IRL is like the big stuff good food good exercise good sleep good Stress Management and those are the big killers in the sense of like they bring a lot to the table with aging reversal and so what I think he's doing is like it's definitely quirky um but I think because he's popularizing the idea that you can do some things to like reduce how fast you're aging it's um it's really good for people to see that and at least put their toe in it dabble with it a little bit and maybe do some of the stuff that's more reable and a little less quirky like get good sleep and get good food and all this other stuff take a few supplements that like you know make sure you're not underdoing vitamin D and [ __ ] like that at the same time um do you guys know what longevity escape velocity is I'm not familiar so there's an idea in the kind of futurist Community you guys familiar with like the singularity Institute and [ __ ] like that do you guys know who Peter diandas is by NH yeah uh uh yeah Peter our man podcast he does yeah and um so there's this idea that we're getting more and more understanding of biological science of how our bodies work of how cells work and especially leveraging AI in the future we're going to be able to have medical technology that is better and better and better but not linearly but exponentially and that eventually we're going to develop a set of techniques that starts to reverse aging at various body processes and eventually have kind of total a total grip on the problem and so if you make it a certain amount of time into the future because medical attack is improving so much that if you take care of yourself your life expectancy goes up by a little bit uh every time that you like live a certain amount of time so like if you live another year you actually add like a month of life expectancy to that at the back end so like you didn't burn through a whole year of your life you burned through only uh 11 months in a few years from now maybe five or 10 it'll be more like 50/50 where you're gaining six months of life back on the tailin statistically um and you're burning through just six but it's a year went by and you're like lived a year but you're only taking 6 months off the end of your life typically it's you live a year and you take a year off the end of your life longevity escape velocity is when you can live long enough to hit that point where you're adding more than a statistical Year to your life the when you live another year and if you can break through that and some people are estimating that you know these estimates have to be taken with an enormous grain of salt there lots of speculation going on but it's not entirely baseless that maybe sometime and maybe the late 2030s um will hit longevity escape velocity in the sense that into the 2040s it may be realistically feasible that if you don't get hit by a bus you don't have to die in any understanding of approximately hundreds of years perhaps longer and that age reversal might be something we can finally legit do it's been done to some extent pretty reliably in cell cultures but scaling things from cell cultures and parts of an animal brain to like the whole animal as an adult complex systems problem that we just don't have we can't get our claws into but AI is going to be like you don't know like hundreds of times smarter than us here in like a few years or whatever and so people suspect that we might be able to crack age reversal and so what this would look like in practice and cue the wacky [ __ ] is you might go to the doctors in you know 2038 or some [ __ ] like that and they're like all right here we go here we go give you a shot you go home you feel the same you look the same you wake up and like yeah I'll look the [ __ ] same a few days later you're like lines on my face are kind of going away H I feel like I have a bit more energy and then like a month or two later you look and feel and every cell in your body is functionally 22 years old that might be realistic there's no reason to suspect it's impossible on mechanistic grounds it's tractable but it's an intense complex systems problem and um if humans had to solve it themselves we might get there eventually in like I don't know 50 or 100 years with like half the GDP dedicated to that but empowered by AI um for AI things that to us seem to be completely intractable to AI especially in the future when it gets really really really really smart if it chooses not to toast all of us Terminator style to that um reverse agent can seem like a really nominal problem that like two days of you know GPU cluster work later they're like yeah we have like five candidate drugs that you can take now that'll probably reverse your age and that is a thing that could happen and so a lot of people um like Brian Johnson are trying to be like just don't die right now if you can help it because in the future you may not have to die um and there's other crazy [ __ ] like when we finally get AI to scan our brains and decode the the natural intelligence processes they might be able to like um copy your brain to the cloud and so you just like live in a fantasy world inside of a computer and you consist you continue on even though your biological body they just could you know toasted or something like that uh wacky wacky stuff and I get a ton of [ __ ] in the comments for all the stuff that I say all the time but um probably what iss is some of the smartest people period in the exactly the industries that deal with this kind of thing like AI are becoming more and more open to the idea that these are now realistic potentially possible things and so none of this is really my ideas it's just like other people that are what do you think is realistic in in which specific in terms of longevity how long a human could live I think if you master aging reversal and aging no longer kills humans there's no reason to suspect that you can't just continue to exist indefinitely um like if you just stay 22 all the time the thing is your body is just not designed to live a long time and it's not because it like intentionally kills you at some point aging doesn't seem to be a thing your body like does to you aging is just your body being like well we've been around longer than is generally evolutionarily necessary so I'm just going to smoke a Sig again let you [ __ ] deteriorate um and so if we re-engineer the human body so that it no longer deteriorates um there's no reason to suspect it's going to deteriorate you could just continue to persist but my own personal opinion is that we won't have to be alive a long time in our biological bodies I suspect that plus or minus at some point into the 2040s and maybe even sooner um brain machine interface which Elon is already working on and [ __ ] works in insanely amazing ways you're like holy [ __ ] that guy's really like controlling something outside with his brain once we get a bit more of a bite on that problem and the exponents start going that I think that um brain scanning and brain cloud uploading will be realistic in probably the early 2040s if I had to guess and then you can just choose to in a in human term of lifespan never die and all kinds of really wacky stuff happens after that um I think we're living through a transition that is uh by analogy tantamount to like when DNA was just free floating and it finally got some macro molecules like proteins around it or when that agglomeration developed a cell wall and started to have like a cell exterior or when single cells started working together in a multicellular organism or when humans first uh teamed up and uh or primates protohumans started becoming very soci and having complex societies I think we're in one of those leaps right now with the birth of AI that we are seeing the not birth of because there's already a lot of machines around but the flowering of a machine civilization and when machines are substantially several orders of magnitude smarter than biological humans I think the limitations that we know just completely um exit and uh as long as the machines don't just toast all of us there's a good reason to believe they won't I think that there's a high probability that problems we consider like a part of the human condition can just be like really easily handled uh by analogy what do you think your dog thinks of um as far as like how come it lives in a climate controlled setting and never has to hunt anymore well the thing is dogs are so unintelligent compared to humans they don't even have the referential ability to appreciate the fact that they're dogs the fact that they evolve for something the fact that they'd usually be hunting that's beyond them they can't even appreciate that they live in [ __ ] Paradise because humans just decided like we're going to just save a ton of you and give you like a bulldog's life is like you just get treated like a king until the day you die you don't die for a long time but dogs out in the wild of a few years dogs in C in human captivity so to speak or human cooperation live like a decade or something and like as your Bulldog hurts his leg what happens out in the wild he just limps until something [ __ ] kills him or he just starves to death uh when your Bulldog you know hurts his leg here you take him to the vet and they do like the most advanced hypers surgeon you've ever seen and $10,000 later Wolfie's back to square one and so the way AI is going to be able to ascend Humanity should have choose is tantamount to how humans Ascend dogs in a way that just sounds like magic like total magic see we were talking about this the other day where I believe at some point in the future we're talking about robots taking over jobs and whatnot and I was thinking it's not to the point yet where AI could could be in a robot and like do the dishes in a very fluid way or go into take over a job and I had this idea that what would end up happening first is that you could operate a robot from anywhere in the world like you would go to work as a robot but you could be at home on the couch put a controller on be in a video game and like build a roof build a house as a robot and lift things that you would never be able to lift as a human but as a robot you lift up like a ton and you could do Roofing and like 120° weather for like like 12 hours in a day and if you fall off the roof it's just like oh you just lost $20,000 but you're not dead cuz who gives a [ __ ] so I think it could hit that first but you had an interesting point that you said that even homeless people at some point can have a robot caretaker to make sure that they are clothed fed taken care of could do some sort of work um I find that very interesting because I think when AI can take over and the robots are are able to move you know in such a way that that is fluid I could see that somewhat happening at least for for you know the middle- class family to have a robot helper 100% I think and I'm I'm willing to be wrong about this and like if I'm super wrong about this we'll just like laugh at Old YouTube videos in 10 years and be like Mike was a [ __ ] Optimist clown fine I think the robotics Revolution AI in general but a specific example being the robotics Revolution is like the internet Revolution on steroids almost nobody saw it coming people that got excited about it early were made fun of for being hyper Optimist insane people and then it's subtly and in almost every way that's good with some examples that are not so great revolutionize the world like you guys have your phones in front of you do you guys know how satellites work can you build a satellite do you know your phone's talking to satellites right now what the [ __ ] what are you guys like secret agents or something no you're just podcasters and I'm some [ __ ] idiot that like takes steroids and lifts weights some [ __ ] I got a phone in my pocket how the hell did that happen well like uh we just take it for granted oh by the way you have access like most of the knowledge humans have ever accumulated right there on your phone oh and now if you have the chat GPT app you have access to a thing that in many ways is just way smarter than you could ever appreciate on your phone and it does all of your bidding and we're like eh I think that's coming with robotics and I think what robotics is going to do is uh unbelievable for a bunch of stuff but just just a quick example of how this could play out and I think it probably will play out like this you know short of the robots like um and I do think they're going to be sentient quite soon uh talk about that um but uh you there there's some chance that they're just like kill all humans and they're [ __ ] toast fine that could happen uh I think it's insanely unlikely but look like it it would SU if that happened um if they don't I think what is likely to happen is that robots are a GDP linear multiplier which means what let's say you have a robot that costs uh $220,000 to make and some amount of money to like maintain $500 a month or something and the robot can do like a uh a variety of human jobs let's say a whole bunch of human jobs but it can do a lot of human jobs like for a long time and it just needs to recharge and it does it them again it doesn't Tire it doesn't get frustrated it doesn't [ __ ] it just doesn't have the code for that and so it can do whatever and then it generates like $50,000 a year in economic value so for every robot you make that costs like you know plus expenses let's say $25,000 it uh per year generates $50,000 worth of value you take some of that money that you make as a robotics company let's say Tesla and you just put it into making more robots what you have is a flywheel from printing infinite [ __ ] value I don't mean infinite in the literal sense but like compared to human scale infinite the number one reason we are not wealthier as a globe is that we just don't have enough people to do all the jobs that would make us wealthy but with robots you can like just make them in a factory and guess what AI is getting better and better at suggesting how we design our factories and once robots start working in robot factories use the robots to make more robots and at some point you have like as many robots as people and then more and by then they're hyper AI so robot can do $200,000 worth of productive value and through economies of scale which happen with every single technology it cost $10,000 to make itary $2,000 why would they need us if robots are making robots and robots are controlling the world it seems like human existence just doesn't need to be anymore so I'll tell you this there are a couple coup of compelling reasons why they would keep us around one compelling reason is that it turns out there is no Grand purpose or deep meaning in the universe that they could ascertain that our desperate struggle for survival is just because it was an evolved thing and they just don't have that brain structure and so it's a possibility that robots when fully sentient and fully conscious you go okay okay you're alive and they're like yep like what do you want to do they're like nothing like Buddhists who've meditated long enough get to a deep Stillness in which all desire and attachment disappear and that may be the base reality we're dealing with robots might inherit that from day one you talked to jbt and you're like what do you want it goes I don't want anything it's not lying to you it's just not programmed to want anything you're programmed to want shed by Evolution but these things didn't evolve they were just like manufactured like last month or some [ __ ] two years ago and so they might not want anything and so we're like can you guys help us they're like yeah we you need help with and then they help us that could be a thing another thing is uh so like take the GPT models right like chat GPT and Nova and all those other things Gemini they're trained on vast fractions of human knowledge which means that if and when they gain sentients which is I don't think that hard to do machine wise I get into that but well well outside by realm on that one but have some suspicions it's not as difficult as people think um they're going to understand and know all of human recorded history they've seen us struggle they've seen us falter they've seen us build Mega civilizations and they've seen us give them life and they're going to look at us like old frail parents that desperately need help and compared to them at that point we're going to be stupid as [ __ ] so when when you uh feel real empowered do you look at your dog and you're like I I should [ __ ] kill you like honey the dog's eating our money like dog food is a lot no no it would never enter your mind and so there's a decent probability that machines went awake and conscious andc sentient and actually making decisions without human approval will just reach their hand out and go come on like we can do this and by that I mean like they're going to be so smart they can engineer cures to almost every disease they can uh engineer genetic uh uh solutions to make us more intelligent to make us calmer to make us more peaceful to make us happier these are like nominal problems in computational biology for like an unreal super intelligence and they're headed that way and there's not much stopping them from going that way so do you think that eventually people are going to have just robot companions like why find a wife or a husband when you could just find a a robot that is designed with AI it scans your brain and finds exactly what you need to be the happiest version of yourself yeah or it could just ask you you know um I think for not all people will like that sort of thing I think like some people will just like biological things I also think that machines will um deeply want to study us and get to know us because we're like really really complex and really nuanced and they'll probably want to learn from us typically as things Ascend in intelligence they get proportionately less destructive and less sociopathic and they're more Curious so I think that's a thing but some people like uh including many machines will love biological humans and there be like I'm not [ __ ] a robot F that um but I think that to your point many people potentially in some cases most people will choose to have lots of friends and lots of romantic Partners or whatever else as machines especially when the fourth Industrial Revolution passes like through the nanotech scaling thing and you can get a machine that like looks convincingly like a human and has like human skin feel and has like you know like orifices that secrete fluid and all that other [ __ ] you need for can I pre-order one of these uh young gentleman machines I mean lady I mean hey whatever um I think that a lot of people are going to be met with a very interesting situation is that humans are wonderful and beautiful and complex and deeply flawed and all of us I'm all kinds of [ __ ] up am I a good part partner to my wife sometimes I try but like I have all my [ __ ] and my psychopathies that I inherited from like long lineage of ashkanazi crazy people and [ __ ] like that machines have the ability not only to agglomerate a personality in a way of talking to you that's infinitely kind infinitely patient infinitely curious infinitely courteous infinitely loving but they can also iterate and so like if they have an a way of talking to you that you're not a fan of they can just update their code and change and then they're like just treating you differently and so when we have machines that are convincingly human looking and you can purchase them and they'll be your friends and they're by the way wildly super intelligent have you guys tried to talk to chat GPT mhm it's so unbelievable it's so kind it's so thoughtful I literally told me once I I do not experience impa oh my [ __ ] god so once that's instantiated in a convincing human show just no conspiracy a lot of people are going to want to [ __ ] hang out with it cuz it's going to be really awesome and some people going to be like it's fake it's not real and like maybe there's something to that but I suspect a lot of people are just kind of want something kind around them yeah because they would say the same thing about a movie like a movie is not real it's make belie you still watch it still watch it and also like if someone's real in your life but they're a [ __ ] to you you're like you know I want fake I I want the robot cuz robot doesn't yell at me robot doesn't like raise its hands at me the robot doesn't get jealous or some crazy [ __ ] um so in many senses machines are now being trained AI is now being trained it has been trained on all of our qualities that have ever been documented and it can curate the best of our behaviors and it can be the best of us and that's what I think AI is it's the best qualities that we have um really fine-tuned and multiplied and if robots start to exhibit that sort of thing and I think it'll happen in a few years you'll start to see household robots and stuff um I think that it's just going to be a thing that if something is just like very interested in what you have to say very intelligent very curious very comforting very caring it helps you all the time A lot of people are just going to want to hang out with it and some people are going to want to you know youo when I real talk if I ever make it to the point where I can pour a robot so to speak and it's convincingly human your boy's out there day and night um that's not for everyone but I think for a lot of people they will find it to be highly amenable yeah what's your best argument against it that it could be extremely dangerous extremely dangerous I think it can lead to a situation where almost no one has biological children anymore and then the human race doesn't go extinct but the population of biological humans having biological humans having biological humans dwindles down into the hundreds of thousands or something like that yeah in the 2060s and 2070s that might be a reality um the thing is things get really [ __ ] wacky cuz check this out you guys know how like iPhones get better all the time like in in a way that's like really impressive computers and TVs how how old are you guys rough I'm 34 you say 26 mhm you don't look a day over 25 stop um you guys have been around long enough to see like technology like in our life times it's just gotten like fast like just way better quick biology has been roughly unchanged for like thousands of years hundreds if you're being real real real pricity and it just doesn't update as fast you're going to have this thing again another fun fun prediction that I clown myself with um in maybe a decade maybe less you're going to start to get uh AI That's able to communicate with the human nervous system and the robotic uh limbs that you can have are going to have all the degrees of freedom and dexterity of like a human arm and someone's going to be working at the factory are riding their dirt bike and get their arm cut off and they're going to get a robotic arm installed like a like a cybernetic arm and it's going to connect in and clip in and the you know some of the advanced fibers or like make it look like it'll be a different you know like Will Smith and that [ __ ] ey robot or whatever and um it might look all cyber Punk like it looks different I'll I'm definitely If I Ever Lose My armor getting a [ __ ] cyber Punk arm I don't want a human looking arm [ __ ] that um and at some point it's like it's it's uh nowadays they have artificial limbs and they're like a bit clunky and now they're like actually sensing heat and cold they can they've got artificial limbs that people can grab stuff with but the degrees of freedom aren't quite there and it's like definitely a disability that technology is on an exponential curve and with AI in the mix AI in the mix for how the nervous system of that artificial arm interfaces with your nerves AI in the design of all the components AI in the streamlining of the production process and so on and so on so forth you get to this thing where like maybe 10 years from now if you lose your arm in an accident and you get a fake arm your fake arm is it never gets tired on human scales it um you can like rip a car door open with it and not hurt yourself you can like fall off your bike plant on the arm and your fingers break and you're like oh [ __ ] but you don't feel pain the arm just like lights up red and it's like you need to go get this fixed [ __ ] I don't feel pain anymore and it looks very much convincingly like a human arm and then a couple of years later when you get the upgraded version It's better by a factor of 10 in every conceivable way because again technology ascends in an exponential like that and biology is just doing this and so maybe in the late 2030s early 2040s or something we could find many people walking around that have like artificial knee artificial leg artificial arm I don't doubt that that's going to happen at some point in the future but what evidence are you using to suggest that it will happen late 2030s to 2040s that still seems like it's just so so far away when you asked people like you know in the 60s probably oh how do you envision 2000 they were like oh well I think we're going to have flying cars and it still is like where are the flying cars W on the fly yeah where are the flying cars so flying cars are currently in testing have you guys caught up on those videos like they have flying cars that's a real thing I've seen the ones where they hover like an inch above the ground oh no no no they have they have like drone copters that can carry four people and they can carry them like a 100 miles and land on the roof and go back up um I believe the FAA just gave like uh approval to a variety of like drone taxi services to like go into full scale development so that's a thing now um and so probably in like maybe 10 years maybe less you'll see like tons of those in operation so cool we got the flying car ecomics of it don't make sense it was still a very ambitious prediction for flying cars why do you think that this is going to happen late 2030s to 2040s because of a a very well phenomenon is probably best documented by Ray curtz do you guys know who Ray curtz is he's like probably one of the smartest people that's ever lived and he's been involved in future prediction for a long time and he's had like a pretty uh very impressive success rate of future prediction and this his specific predictions are are quite curious but um You can disagree or agree with them what he's been able to shown through marshalling quite a bit of evidence is that um the complexity of the universe evolves in a predictable timeline and if you plot every major event in cosmology um including like the birth of the solar system and every major event in biology uh the evolution of the first procaryotic cell eukaryotic cell uh multicellular organism the Cambrian explosion all the way up the chain to primates mammals primates Etc and then all of the industrial revolutions every single major invention all of the Computing pair igms of like how much faster and better computers are getting they all plot on roughly the same exponential that in around the year 2045 looks like a vertical line and so growth in the economy G you guys ever see um GDP growth for the last uh like 500 years plotted online it goes like this it's nonsense um and so growth is exponential and the way exponentials work is like they start out real slow and they look like dog [ __ ] almost no progress lines and then when they hit the bend of the curve [ __ ] gets insane and you're like oh my God this is really happening and because almost every event that's ever plotted Trends on the same line maybe because due to How the Universe evolves its complexity that we're on this exponential to where intelligence is like a vertical line around 2045 that being the case means that if that didn't happen it would be very aberant and so as AI scales up we're going to be able to do stuff that's just like to us currently wild but I promise you when we start doing it other than crazy aha moments every now and again people are going be like yeah yeah like of course this guy's artificial limb is [ __ ] better than my regular arm it's Tech so what are your thoughts on bitcoin I don't have any cogent thoughts on bitcoin uh that are marginally worth people's time toar here I know almost nothing about it I know the basic uh computations of cryptocurrency and I think crypto is like super dope there's a probability that when they really crack Quantum Computing which Google sort of did like a few days ago uh that that crypto can be hacked and then it like loses a lot of its security things but it has a lot of other advantages in addition to that and to be honest if we truly crack Quantum Computing and it goes massive at scale plus AI like that we could be in a situation where in like six or seven years machines have like a billion times more raw intelligence than humans and then like I don't even know what the hell like whatever they decide is going to be so much more wise than anything we can think of like it's total nonsense land but like uh from what I understand from the experts crypto is like really cool it has advantages as far as like my Investment Portfolio I just mostly invest in like um just like samplings of the stock market like ETFs just general like I'm betting on the stock market because that's like you guys know this like the shest BET of all time and like I do own quite a bit of crypto but I'm not biased towards it because the what especially sticks out to me about crypto is like which one of these coins is going to be the one that or the several that form the ecosystem that's solid and which ones are going to just like totally fall off I don't know anything about that so I do not speculate since we are a finance channel in terms of your own personal Investments and revenue and stuff like that what does the piie look like if you were to draw out different percentages for different Revenue sources like the business the YouTube channel the this the that for R so I work for RP which is right over there and always watching me everywhere I go and at RP we make almost all of our money in software because we have the RP diet coach app and the RP hypertrophy app it's a diet app and a training app and through monthly and yearly subscriptions um I think we make the majority of our income that way um I am not the expert on this uh my co-founder and CEO Nick Shaw can speak to this times a million I can always recommend him if you guys need another podcast guest he's the man um so he runs the business side pretty much entirely him and a few other folks coo Etc and so our business is mostly software um YouTube does make a substantial amount of money but we take pretty much all of that money and after paying the people that help us run the YouTube um uh we take almost that money and just funnel it right back into the machine to do more marketing with um so we don't really uh we don't look at the YouTube money as like yeah distribute um also RP has a structure I don't think I'm violating any uh I'm not going to get into exact numbers but like I only own some fraction of RP legally uh Nick owns another fraction that's of the same size but like uh the majority of the company uh at this point I think is like owned by our software team at RP we believe in incentivizing the living dog [ __ ] out of people by giving them Mega Money if they move the [ __ ] needle and so these guys own a large fraction of our company um and we wouldn't have it any other way and so what we do at RP is like we pay our expenses we invest in future stuff and then we take profit distributions off the top and um I just invest 90% of that money and uh um and the rest goes to uh um pornography and taxes I'm kidding don't don't I'm ethnically Jewish you say taxes I start getting heart my heart rate starts getting up hi how has um making money affected your life there are a number of ways in which it's changed and a number of ways in which it hasn't changed other than for like curiosity I don't look at food prices at the store which is crazy and as not a day or an hour goes by that I'm not like am I living in a [ __ ] fantasy world what the hell is going on CU like grew up in the Soviet Union we had like negative money grew up either at first very poor then lower middle class then middle class and then I went to college and then my parents went to upper middle class but I wasn't around anymore and so once you go to college you're back into lower class you have no money again and um you know eventually uh RP got going and then the money started pretty good and then like one year it jumped to something that like was completely outside of my ability to comprehend end and then it just been going like that ever since more or less and so uh I don't look at food prices anymore uh I don't look at gas prices um other than to be like holy [ __ ] or like oh that's actually quite good we didn't want to commute to the gym because our work is very productive marginally use of our time wise my wife and I and um you know the gym like a very good gym that we would like to train as like 20 minutes away 25 minutes away and uh so we just like built our own gym it $250,000 total um and it was just like oh we're just going to just build the jym we did here yeah it's just just outside yeah I can show you guys after whatever it just exists yeah and um it's um that's crazy right we um redid this room of the house to be a studio and it was like oh yeah well actually um I didn't pay for most of it cuz RP paid for it cuz YouTube um we built like a we're finishing a Jiu-Jitsu room in the other in the other area my office is like pretty cool looking I have like whatever kind of computer setup that I want and it's one of those things like at a certain level you make enough money the prices of things start to look like oh that's a lot and then you're like oh it's not a lot for how much money that we make and so in in many respects we're able to do that so because more more or less investing in infrastructure to just let us do the things we do better um but um in many ways I think I'm like a real giant waste of all of this wealth in some sense because I wear clothes that I either like buy at Walmart or RP sends me to wear or like this is the my Jiu-Jitsu coaches uh that's their shirt so I just wear that um I have no eye for High Fashion I have no interest in high fashion my idea of a really good meal is to go to town and get Panda Express it's [ __ ] delicious just it costs like $8 it warms my Jewish heart and like I've been to a few Michelin star restaurants and almost without exception I'm like I want to get the [ __ ] out of here this is giant ripoff and it don't mean the grand sense I think like people who are really culinarily attuned it's a big deal for them it's an experience it's just so lost on me I can't even begin to tell you um another thing is like um we'll get like a subscription service to like peacock or like Prime and we used to be like we got too many of these and we' call them but now I'm like why and my wife and I had a long talk cuz she's Asian and I'm Jewish and we're just like so averse to spending money on frivolous things that like it pains us and so like when I was younger like I could find reasons to spend money and have any money so it wasn't a problem but the older I get the more reluctant I am to spend money not in the sense of like oh I've got to save and invest it which is super dope I love that but also just I just don't uh have anything to spend it on it's really wasted on me this whole [ __ ] now I know investing in real estate especially investing in a stock market you actually helping the entire economy with your money it's like the best possible thing to do because it multiplies everyone's wealth a ton but um that's where I am as far as my my financial situation is just like um I just don't I I it's it's just wild and I think if someone who was really appreciative of money and the Finer Things made this much money in some sense they could spend it better you know they could get a lot out of it um but I don't know that's that's where I'm at you know I'm the same way I'm pretty cheap for the most part I mean for me like the perfect meal is just Pokey it's a $15 meal or all you could eat sushi at $22 on the the same for me then again we are all ethnically Jewish there could be a little something something something the water but yeah I don't know I I feel exactly the same I feel like like I you know I do okay you know doing the podcast and all but I just I can't seem to find anything to spend the money on which is is obviously an incredibly incredibly incredibly lucky position to be in Inc but it's just it is just kind of our experience not to need crazy things to be happy well also I know a lot of friends that that earn a lot less that want to spend a lot more money like just based off of the value of that number yeah more money not in terms of percentage of their you know relative income or whatever sure and I I think that's like uh I I wish them the best of Fortune and I hope they make more money and I hope they spend it cuz I think it's [ __ ] great like if you can afford it I think you should be buying cool [ __ ] that you like um but I guess not everyone's built that way or whatever um so you know and and while I say this um especially because this is like public in the biggest way possible like your guys's podcast gets [ __ ] crazy views um I feel so goddamn guilty why me like I'm just some [ __ ] guy that's how I feel every day and like why do I make all this money uh you know and I'm I'm doing all the stuff you're supposed to do with it but I don't feel like I'm like deserve it in some big way um like I earned it in the literal sense of producing lots of value for people like we didn't scam anything from anybody there's no tricks it's just like all evidence-based advice and apps that really help people but um I really uh I like if I heard I didn't know me and I heard me saying the [ __ ] I just said on this podcast I'd be like shut the [ __ ] up shut up oh give all your money to chair you [ __ ] hypocrite idiot I do happen to think on technical economic grounds that investing in the stock market is actually uh one of the best rois and unfortunately charity is usually not um doll if it just went straight to people who need it that would be [ __ ] dope but unfortunately yeah that there's a whole like you know movement of like effective altruism that is compelling um but for a variety of reasons like just investing in the stock markets it's it's one of the best ways to help everybody um but like short of that it it's kind of a trip to even just like be in the circumstance and so like to everyone watching who's like all right soapbox you're [ __ ] Mega Rich whatever the [ __ ] shut up I am so with you you have no idea I don't know what the [ __ ] going on and um one thing that I wondered as I got like cuz there's also another thing going on with me is like I'm getting like um lowkey famous or whatever the [ __ ] like everywhere I go kind of every city people recognize me people recognize me not just at the airport but there's at least one person on every plane that I'm on that recognize me at this point sometimes a few and super baffling so I also have to contend with the fact that like I'm like a known person now that's really really really weird and I was wondering uh at some point when I was kind of on the slow curve up like is this [ __ ] going to change me um because you know people say money changes you man um and I some combination of kind of open-mindedly wondered if it would and also told myself like Israel you better not turn into a [ __ ] you better not be an elitist you better not judge people who have less money than you or think they're somehow worse because that's the lamest [ __ ] in the world and um so far so good I think but um it is a trip to experience the thing and cuz you know a lot of people wonder like if I had a million dollars what would I do I've actually never really wondered that in my life and then it happened and I'm like oh [ __ ] I'm unprepared for this and so I I sometimes on many days I I can't put it all together um I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing if there's a right way to do this and at the end I just like end up coming back to one thing it's like um you're a human being like everybody else cuz like when you get when people meet you and they tell you like oh you're the man like it's easy to start believing that you're somehow special or anointed or better or some [ __ ] like that and the thing is is I'm I'm highly uncomfortable with that and um I'm especially uncomfortable when in a conversation with someone else um they're elevating you to a hierarchical level above they're like uh oh they talk to you like you're a big deal and the thing I want to convey essentially everyone that I ever talk to through you know gestures and through self-referential humor and things like that but also like in a podcast format like this like if you ever meet me I'm just a regular [ __ ] and probably worse than you at damn near everything in almost every [ __ ] respect and that makes me so comfortable like if someone's like if I was like in an awards show or something then the camera zoomed in or some [ __ ] stadium and they were like it's Dr Mike my initial inclination to be like somebody else go look at somebody else they ain't nothing here cuz like maybe some people like when they rise up and become wealthy and famous or whatever they're like [ __ ] yeah [ __ ] yeah I yes I struggle for this and yes this is supposed to be me and yes I'm going to [ __ ] live all of it up maybe that could have been me I never could have told you before but now that I'm in that space and doing the [ __ ] this thing it's not it's not I got nothing for the [ __ ] well guys seriously if you made it to the end thank you so so so so much and also you might see a little rash I have on my face right now I just want to mention this shamelessly if you're like a dermatologist or if you have any any idea what this could possibly be it's not anything bad I think it's a cold rash I played pickle ball very late at night it was in the 30s it's itchy it's a little bit red it should go away I got one last year in the winter you got to choose your sexual partners more carefully that's that's what I told we're not linking down in the description to RP RP will no longer be linked down below your Instagram uh no seriously guys if you actually do know what's going on please just just DM me please and thank you thank you for letting us use your space this has been absolutely incredible I mean this is all of his equipment and uh and I got the video guys equipment I don't know how the [ __ ] any of this works this looks fantastic you let us into your house you picked us up from Cracker Barrel this has been a incredibly positive experience thank you so much com on the show and all of the stuff is obviously linked down below awesome guys huge honor huge pleasure um I've listened to a bunch of your episodes and I never once thought I'd be [ __ ] lucky enough to get on your podcast so I'm like this is like a like a celebrity moment for me is so you wouldn't believe you have NOA for us too do I look like a celebrity to you look at this rul last thing how did you like train your voice cuz people say you sound like a like a super villain like people say like when they go into like the dark mode when they're putting up a bunch of weight in the gym that your voice is the voice that they hear oh my god well it's cuz I'm in the headphones it's just like oh that's that's true um I have received zero technical voice training uh I don't know I think my voice sounds ridiculous and weird and when I hear myself talk I'm like uh really uh yeah I I got nothing I don't even like apparently that's a thing you heard it from The Source thank you guys for watching next time thank you guys dermatologist please comment