You Won’t Believe Who’s Really Running the Show - Tulsi Gabbard

who actually runs the government in your experience. Not who you think it is. It's um and in and and in many cases, especially recently, uh the the troubling part about all this is it's not even people who we vote for. When you look at uh what happened when President Biden had that infamous debate with President Trump, uh it it exposed the reality that many of us have known for a long time, which is that President Biden has not been the guy calling the shots. He has not been the guy making the decisions, nor has it been Kla Harris for that matter, nor will it be if she is elected president. It is this cabal of, you know, the Democrat elite, the the woke wararm mongers, uh, made up of the likes of Hillary Clinton and, uh, Barack Obama and, you know, Tony Blinken and Jake Sullivan and, you know, people who are in the military-industrial complex, people who profit from us being in a constant state of war. It is um those in the administrative state in the national security state who derive more authorities and ability to take away uh our liberty when we are in a heightened state of crisis or war. It is the the their friends and billionaires and people in media who all derive their power from being able to have a figure head that essentially they can control. And the most troubling part about there's so many things wrong with this of course but really at at the most fundamental level you look at um you know our country is the oldest democracy in the world but the reality of a truly functioning and thriving democracy that has brought to life the vision that our founders had for us that we really have a government of by and for the people and that we have the ability and responsibility for that matter to ensure that um the government we have only exists with the consent of the governed. That becomes very hard to do to hold people accountable when the person that you voted for is is certainly not the one making the decisions. How long has that been the case? Was it ever the case that the president ran the country? When was the inflection point? Yeah, I don't I don't know that there's one specific I mean there has, you know, as personalities come in and shift here and there. Uh I would say the answer to that has probably changed. But in the election that we are facing here very shortly in the United States um it's our opportunity to hit the reset button and you know however people feel about the choices and the options that we have and they've changed a little bit recently but really it's only the phases that have changed. the stakes have not changed and and the choices between the Democrat elite and I've been saying this for months like hey guys don't be because it's like oh is it Biden going to stay or is he going to go and who's they going to replace him is it Gavin is it all of these different theories they make for good chatter I guess on cable news but I've been telling people all along don't be distracted you know you take one horse out you put another horse in you've got the same people who are running the show and it is it is between the Democrat elite will be Kla Harris on the ballot and uh and the uh those calling the shots behind the scenes continuing to remain in power versus uh Donald Trump who has a record of I mean the reason why they're doing all they can to destroy him is because he won't bend the knee to this Washington establishment which is which is made up of people in both political parties by the way. What makes you think that a Trump presidency would be any more inoculated against this nefarious behindthe-scenes control than the one that we have at the moment? Surely you're just I if the people out front don't make any difference because it's the people behind the scenes that are changing, then what makes Trump any better than what we've got at the moment? It's not that anyone who's put out front doesn't make a difference. It is specific to in this in this world that we're living in now, specific to uh President Biden and Vice President Kla Harris. And and the reason why they've been doing all they can to try to keep Trump off the ballot in over 32 states, all of the court cases and lawsuits and everything that the media is thrown at him, the reason why they're doing that is because uh you may agree or disagree with his decisions or his policies or the way that he talks about things, but he is he is not beholden to those same uh establishment interests that so many of these establishment politicians are. And so, you know, he's he's not going in and saying, "Oh gosh, well, I got to do what this person says or I got to do what that person says." I think often times even his own staff doesn't know what decision he's going to make or what position uh he'll he'll put forward. And and that is to me that's the clear choice. You have a choice between those who believe that that government knows better for us than we do. That uh their power is more important than our freedom. uh that their power in many cases derives from being in a constant state of war that undermines our national security versus Trump who has the ability to um and frankly the backbone to say yeah no I'm not going to go down that road or we're going to take a different path or we shouldn't be an unnecessary counterproductive regime change wars we should focus on investing in our country and try to work towards a future of of peace and freedom uh and prosperity If that's correct, if it is the case that this sort of limp flaccid Democratic party has permitted people behind the scenes to come and basically run puppeteer people that are out front. That's happened very quickly because it was not that long ago that we had the very guy that you're saying will sanitize this thing in office. So, is it going to then take a long time for that to be cleaned up? And also, how do we know that some of this didn't already exist? It did already exist. Okay. It did already exist. Uh because the party elite itself has been very powerful for a long time. So that that hasn't come around uh very quickly. Um, and you know, I think I think one of the the problems when President Trump was elected last time was uh and and he's talked about this himself. He came in and uh you know he didn't he never worked in Washington before and he had a bunch ended up with a bunch of people around him who were a part of this establishment uh this Washington establishment. Do you think he didn't really have that much of a plan? Do you think it was a surprise to him that he got in in some ways? it I I don't know for sure, but it certainly seemed that way. Yeah. and and you know I mean there and there were and and the it's interesting because the conversations that I'm hearing coming from even establishment Republicans right now uh are very similar to the ones that I heard in 2016 when Trump was elected which was okay like we got to we got to like balance the scales in their words by surrounding Trump with people who hold completely opposing views than he does to try to mitigate what they view as the the quote unquote threat that he poses to not the country. Who is it that's saying that we need to surround him? Oh, I mean there's it's basically like the neocon wararm mongers even within the Republican party. So, and what what do they see is the position he holds that they're trying to counter that he and and he's been pretty vocal about this like he's like no we're not going to wage more stupid wars and we're going to put America first in his words and uh we will achieve that through by peace through strength. Who wants war and why? They would be shocked by how many people do and they won't say I want war or I like to see more people dead. Of course, you know, they won't use those words. But there are are um politicians who are beholden to the big defense contractors who are making billions and trillions of dollars. Uh and they are their political donors and their supporters and their friends. Uh and and ultimately it's those politicians whose knee-jerk reaction to any challenge or situation in the world instead of choosing diplomacy and seeing war as the last resort once you've exhausted all other means. Understanding how costly it is both in in lives and in taxpayer dollars. It's just hey we got to go and punish this bad guy, topple this regime, uh you know, wage this modern modern-day siege through economic sanctions and warfare. All of the tools that they have at their disposal without thinking through what the cost and consequences of those actions and policies are presumably on the ground and also economically domestically too both. Um it seems these people and it's by the way it's not reflective of I think especially over these last 20 plus years the vast majority of Americans regardless of political party are sick and tired of this. So their view is not reflective. They're not just like oh well this is what the the quote unquote people want. It is ultimately it goes back to this kind of cabal of power that they're trying to hold on to. Do you think that those people I I I struggle to find or meet people that are genuinely evil? There's people that have got goals and then they're kind of um risky and frivolous on route toward getting those goals. You think, ah, this is just collateral damage. Who really cares? I'm getting my backhander from Rathon or whoever the [ __ ] But it seems surprising to me that someone would think I want to go to war. So do you think that these people that are pushing for it genuinely believe that it's in the best interests of the country? Have they been able to gaslight themselves this Stockholm syndrome from whoever is sort of continuing to fund them? Or is it something a little bit more malicious? So they actually sort of trying to land grab or or this sort of odd power game that imagine I imagine it feels powerful for you to be America and for you to have a foothold here and have a foothold there. Have you got any idea what kind of motivates these people? I think they tell themselves whatever they need to tell themselves to sleep at night. But as someone who's been, you know, I still serve in the army today. I've been deployed to war zones in different parts of the world. uh seeing and experiencing firsthand the the harsh ugliness and realities of war and the costs. Um the people who are so quick to go to war and see that as the first response rather than the last uh number one they they don't have any excuse. I I I don't believe everybody should you it's mandatory to serve them. I'm not I I I don't advocate for that. But you you if you are in a position to make these decisions about war and peace, you need to be very responsible and do your due diligence to actually truly understand what the consequences of those decisions will be. Might be worth a quick visit to the front lines. Maybe uh they do those all the time for photo ops. I I saw this while I while I was deployed and I've I've seen a bunch even when I was in Congress for 8 years where you know they'll go and they'll do like we'll stop here in this war zone for 12 hours and hop off the the private plane and take some quick photos and you know wear your flack vest and the and the helmet um you know for the picture but it's you know it's visually impressive but like realistically unimpressed. Yeah. I mean, it looks really goofy to me, but you know, for them, it tells a good pick to I've heard those like, "I've been to Iraq 27 times." It's like, "Okay, like the air conditioned jet wasn't there." And yet, and yet even those who are saying this are some of the very same people who are saying like, "We should just go bomb this country to smitherines." Like, okay. like there there's maybe a really pro a real big problem that we're dealing with here, but is that really is that really the right answer? Is that the best answer? What what happens as the second and third and fourth order of effects after we do what you're proposing? Uh what will the costs and consequences be again in human lives and economy and in all of these other ramifications that a responsible leader should be considering before you go and advocate for such a serious thing? So it seems like you've got Democratic party not happy with Trump generally. Uh some factions of the Republican party not happy with Trump. So it seems like you know and Nikki Haley, you know, just to put a name to Nikki Haley is is one of kind of the the figureheads of that faction within the Republican party. So Nikki Haley is driving forward this neocon. Yeah. Very much so. Wararmongering. Yeah. How come she's still there? because there are people with a lot of money uh who make money from that position or supporting that position and they see again they I I don't know what they tell themselves to be able to sleep at night and be comfortable with what they're doing but um they they have convinced themselves that this is the way things should be. That's what makes me think that uh it is self-conviction as opposed or self-conviction as opposed to uh leading this sort of double life where you know that it's wrong and then you go out front because the level of certainty that you need to be able to step out in front of the camera and we should do this, we need to do that. you'd go home and you'd drink yourself into a hole because there would be for me the you know just straight up multiple personality disorder that I'd have to go through would break my brain in half. I don't think that because you're a good person. Well, other people would would disagree, but yeah, I I know what you mean. Like it's just but it's like okay, well I I get what you're I get what you're what you're driving at and you know like okay well how do you define someone who was evil or driven by evil intent? Uh, I would argue that that even if there's not like some jackal and hide situation going on, uh, I would define that evil intent as someone who cares more about their position, their political position or their power or their influence. Uh and and and I definitely in certain cases and this is why Kla Harris would be so dangerous as president, commander-in-chief, because I have no doubt in my mind, she would immediately feel the need to exert strength and to assert her position and prove that she is a truly strong and powerful commander-in-chief of the United States of America's military. And what better way to do that? What more effective way to do that to actually use our military and go out and and uh you know commit an act of of war. So that sort of need to prove yourself makes you quite easy to manipulate in some ways. It makes you fragile. Yes. Especially when you have so many interests and this is not new. This is you know you heard Eisenhower warn about the military-industrial complex and their influence and their cozy relationship with members of Congress. You go back to President John F. Kennedy and his brother Bobby Kennedy who were battling against even fourstar generals and civilians who were beating the war drum saying go to war, go to war, go to war. Uh, you know, President Kennedy's compelling speech at American University about peace and the hard work that it takes towards peace was the push back against that. And that that is not that doesn't only exist today. It's far more uh far more powerful today than even it was back then. Going back to what you mentioned before, which was uh the fact that everybody knew behind the scenes, but nobody was talking about out front, which was the declining mental health of Biden. Yeah. Just how widespread was that internally, do you think? I mean, it it was impossible to ignore. But if you compartmentalize him, keep him away, we don't let him out, that's a cheap fake edit, that's a whatever. I think I think that's the challenge though is they even as they did all of that. Um it it wasn't enough to try to hide his his, you know, both physical and mental decline. Um you know, I I was with him on the debate stage in in 2020 when I was running for president and I've known Joe Biden for a very long time. I was friends with his son who also served in the Army National Guard. And um you know people say have asked me like did you see signs of this back in 2020? No. I mean it was the same Joe Biden that that I'd known for for many many years and I think recently someone did a side by side of of his performance on the debate stage in 2020 versus now and how significant that difference is. So I, you know, even hearing Kla Harris and the people around him and, you know, Morning Joe on MSNBC say, "Oh, you know, he's never been sharper and he's in the best form he's ever been in his life." Like anybody who knows him now and certainly has known him over the years uh knew that that was all it was all crap. We've all seen those photos of before term and after term. I mean, even Obama who entered as this sort of vibrant, handsome black guy, and he comes out and you go, that's two decades in 8 years. Congratulations. Job, of course. Every every president, every president that served. So, obviously, when you're in your late 70s, um, just imagine the toll the ruthless. So, this is something I about to make one of the most unpopular cases that the internet's going to hear this year. Every time that I've seen this sort of commentary around uh Biden's decline, it's made me feel sad. It's made me feel uncomfortable as I watch this and for two reasons. First one is the one that everybody kind of agrees with, which is it's an older man who's sort of being forced by this organization to be the tip of the spear when he's evidently not capable of doing it and blah blah blah. But the other side is this is the twilight of his career. Yeah. And people remember the thing that you left them with. their lasting impression is often the one that kind of continues through. And you know, you've got you can make whatever criticisms you want about what he's actually done or said throughout his career. I don't really know that much, but I know the way that people socially interpret signals from others. And to think that you've got this guy, how long has he been like five decades or something? He's been in forever. I think he was the youngest US senator ever elected when he got elected to the US Senate, right? And now he's the oldest president ever. This guy's like the parentheses of US government, right? You know, the alpha and the [ __ ] omega. And um to think, you know, doesn't matter what you say, that was a very, very long career culminating in you getting to the pinnacle of this and that being this sort of really awful lingering aftertaste that everybody gets. Oh god, that that makes me sad. That makes me feel sad for for somebody. I don't think that's unpopular at all. I think it's just I mean as as humans who have empathy not much of that in political discourse sadly not and that's that's been um I think that has been one of the sad things that I've seen is is you know all of the different clips and the footage that's out there that gets replayed over and over and over again and and um just the the mocking and the ridicule. Uh it it is it's it is unfortunate that that that is where today's political discourse has gotten rather than just recognizing exactly what you've said like this is it it is sad to see any person in this state especially on a global on a global stage. Um the thing is I mean you know Joe Biden's run for president a few times before he got elected. Uh it's what it's what he's always wanted. this is the pinnacle of what he has always wanted to be uh to achieve that title to be the president of the United States. And so, you know, ultimately he's the guy who made the decision to run. I have no doubt in my mind that he firmly firmly even against other people maybe telling him he shouldn't run for reelection. Uh Joe Biden is well known to be a very stubborn man. A very stubborn man. So, the fact that he chose to run, he chose to stay and he chose to run for reelection, uh, you know, I'm sure there are people I know there are people around him who benefited from him staying, but that was that was his decision. That's why so few people are going to give him any sympathy for what's happened because you go, you already know that you're in decline. You already know and if this is true, if it is the case that he wants to run, it's not Jill, you know, marionetting. I'm sure I'm sure she's got a role to play in it as well. behind the scenes or whatever that he is continuing even now, you know, and then you actually get yourself into a much more awful conversation which is is he cognizant of exactly what he's potentially trying to sign himself up for? Like are we talking about, you know, someone who's really really detached? I have no idea. Uh but yeah, I mean what a what an absolute it the fact that the Joe Biden, Hunter Biden, Jill Biden story makes Trump's reality TV campaign actually just look like one smooth arc between it all. You know, stuff behind the scenes and stories and what's going on in Ukraine and there's this deal and there was a backhander and all of these photos and there was a laptop thing. You go like this country is mental. like this country is crazy and and the worst thing I mean all of this is deeply troubling but when you really look at it who you know who who's forgotten along the way in this whole narrative you know it's it's the everyday working man and woman who's struggling to get by. It's, you know, the fact that we have more and more kids graduating from high school functionally illiterate, a failing education system that you you you know, open borders and everything that's happening because of that. The the real issues that that are actually affecting everyday Americans lives are too often lost um or go unheard the their voices go unheard because of um all of this other stuff. In other news, this episode is brought to you by Element. Let's be honest, water sucks. It is the broccoli of beverages. It's necessary but boring. And most of the alternatives are filled with sugar or loads of ingredients that you can't pronounce. That's why Element is such a gamecher. Element contains a sciencebacked electrolyte ratio of sodium, potassium, and magnesium with no sugar, no artificial ingredients or any other junk. The reason I've used it for over three years now, every single morning, is because it tastes phenomenal and it makes me feel great. It helps to regulate appetite, curb cravings, and improve my brain function. Best of all, they have a no BS, no questions asked refund policy. So, if you do not like it for any reason, they will give you your money back. And you don't even need to return the box. So, you can try it completely risk- free. Right now, you can get a free sample pack of all eight flavors with your first box by going to the link in the show notes below or heading to drinklnt.com/modernwisdom. That's drinklmnt.com/modern wisdom. Well, there's lots of stuff to distract us from it. Yeah. You know, if there were fewer stories to talk about, we wouldn't be talking about them. So, yeah. Is it the chicken or the egg? I I think one of the most interesting things you were vice president of the DNC and then 11 years later spoke at CPAC. Still as a Democrat. Yeah. Slightly non-ypical trajectory. My whole life has been non-ypical. Can you explain that up? Yeah. Yeah. Um, I've always been a very fiercely independent-minded person. Uh, even in, you know, I served as a state representative in Hawaii for one term. I served as a member of the Honolulu City Council. Um, you know, had a district with over about a 100,000 people and dealing with literally things like potholes and sewers and parks and public safety. Uh, and then I served in Congress for eight years. And throughout that entire period, I was a Democrat. Uh, and always, uh, a very independent-minded one. Um, I was asked to serve as vice chair of the DNC roughly two weeks after I was sworn in as a member of Congress. The freshest of freshmen. Yes. And literally when I got the call, it was an evening. I was sitting in the back. I'm pretty sure there was Uber back then. I don't know. I was sitting in the back of a taxi or something and uh I got a call saying, "Would you serve as vice chair of the DNC?" And my response literally was like, "What is a vice chair of the DNC? What are you what are you really asking me? What do you what do you want me to do?" Um but I, you know, agreed to do it, take adv you know, I believe in taking advantage of opportunities and seeing, hey, how how and where can I make a positive impact? and um ended up resigning from that position in 2016 when I saw a couple of pretty um problematic things in that election. number one, how completely not only the the chair chairwoman of the Democratic party at that time was rigging the primaries for Hillary Clinton and against any other candidate, uh, and how both in the party as well as across the mainstream media, they were universally touting Hillary Clinton as the most qualified person ever to run for president in our nation's history. and and no one qualified that with they like oh they read off her litany of titles but they never qualified it with like her actual record. What did she do in these Yeah, she she has had a lot of fancy titles in her in her life but what did she actually do when she was when she was in these positions? And again as a soldier as an American I I felt it was my responsibility to try to speak the truth about her record. She is the queen of wararm mongers. There's never been a war that she hasn't liked and hasn't advocated for, been the architect of in all of these different positions. So, I resigned as vice chair. You're not supposed to take sides uh as an officer of the party. Uh even though people clearly were. I I resigned as vice chair of the DNC. I endorsed Bernie Sanders at that time specifically around this singular issue of of war and peace and foreign policy. seeing how starkly different Hillary and and Bernie were on that issue and and use use that platform as an opportunity to be a voice of truth. So, at least Democrat voters would know who they were voting for and what kind of of president, commander-in-chief they would be. Uh if you go from that election in 2016 to I think it was 2022 that I yeah it was I think the summer of 2022 that I spoke at CPAC. Um, the message that I delivered there would have been very similar to a message I would have delivered in 2016 about freedom, about civil liberties, and about ensuring our security and keeping us out of counterproductive, costly uh, regime change wars. Um, it's funny because the the organizers of CPAC at that time, they were too afraid to call me directly to invite me. So, they went through a friend who tested the waters like, "Would you be open?" I was like, "Yeah, sure. I'll go talk to anybody. Why not?" I had uh some Republican friends of mine even after I said yes call me and say like, "What are you doing?" Like, I won't even go and speak at that crowd. Uh when I got there, the the organizers and I was about to go out and and speak, they're like, "We're going to walk you on the stage." It's like, "I can walk. I'm good." They're like, "Well, we just don't know what I was like, are you afraid people are going to throw food at me or what?" Like, maybe. We really don't know. It's a lively crowd. Uh but uh so anyway, they walked me out and I gave my speech and I got a standing applause and uh afterward went out and just was kind of walking around and talking to people and I was really moved by um how many people some strong Trump supporters other you know wearing the red hat and everything and others I don't know maybe not I don't know but uh just people saying that the message I delivered was very unifying and one that um resonates ates with everybody regardless of your political leanings or should resonate with everyone regardless of your political leanings or affiliation. And you were a Democrat still at this time. I was I ended up I ended up leaving the Democrat I announcing my my departure from the Democratic party uh later that year, but uh it wasn't something that I, you know, even was planning at that time that I gave that speech. Why do you think that you are so popular with conservatives given Bernie as far left as left goes only a couple of minutes ago to CPAC standing round of applause? What is it? I think it's because the um well, first of all, going back to 2016 after Bernie Sanders endorsed Hillary Clinton uh in that election, there were a lot of Bernie supporters that voted for Donald Trump. uh people who were driven by a more populist message of working people and peace and investing in our communities and our societies and so forth. Um, you know, I think that the the the Democratic Party has gone so far away from its roots uh to the point now where, you know, someone like me, if I say I love my country and we should defend the right to free speech for everyone. Uh we should uphold the constitution. We should ensure we actually do have a true thriving democracy. that you may say something that I I find to be abhorrent. I will defend your right to say that. Uh these are all things that are completely unpopular in today's Democratic party and that is something that that has radically changed. Uh, and I think a lot of it started in a lot of it started I think in 2016 when Trump got elected that the the Democratic party took a a a rapid shift away from um the party that I joined over 20 years ago. It's it's unrecognizable today. How does that explain your particular sort of um acceptance and uh attraction of conservative people? Because the the the thing that um I think the Republican party or conservatives, maybe not the Republican party as a whole, but I would say those who call themselves conservatives are very much rooted in those fundamental principles of the Constitution and freedom and limited government and go live your own life. um that once existed as kind of those traditional liberal values in the Democratic party. And so you'll I I hear conservatives all the time saying, you know, we miss those traditional liberal values that President John F. Kennedy held. And imagine how quickly he would be drumed out of the Democratic party of today uh for for the things that he stood for. uh and and so you know I I think it it goes back to the basics. It goes back to the foundations. It goes back to the constitution and how conservatives are very much rooted in that. Uh whereas the Democratic party has not only gone so far away from it. Uh you're seeing now the news of the day as as we're sitting here is how President Biden and Kla Harris and the Democrats are trying to reshape the third co-equal branch of government in the Supreme Court and to exert control over it. What what is that? I don't understand. Uh we have you know we have the executive branch which is the presidency. The president leads uh and all federal agencies that fall under the executive. You have the legislative branch which is Congress, House and the Senate. And then the third co-equal branch is the judicial system, the pinnacle of which is the Supreme Court. Uh Democrats don't like a lot of the decisions that are coming out of this Supreme Court lately. Um, one of which, by the way, was a unanimous decision came a few months ago saying, uh, no, you are, no state is allowed to remove President Trump or any candidate from a ballot. That needs to be decided by the American people. The Democrats hated that decision. Uh, they are trying to institute term limits. I think it was, I don't know, it was 14 years or 16 years or something like that they're putting out there. Uh and there there are like five different things that the Democrats want to put in place that would crazy that a 14 or 16 year term limit is like just speaks to how long these people are in like oh my god we can't have it only 14 years what am I going to do in my late 90s you know. Yeah. Well I mean you know you you have some judges who've been appointed in their late 40s. Um the the I think the underlying issue here is you know we know that if the Supreme Court was more aligned with decisions and policies that uh the Democrat elite support, they would not be introducing any of these quote unquote reforms. And it just it just it again it goes back to the constitution and in the legislative branch and executive branch trying to uh exert power and control over this system that that exists to serve as a check on balance. So no single one of these um overextends itself to the other. And you're an independent now. Yes. Why did RFK not get the momentum that he should have done? He's a independent. He's sort of I'm aware that that covers a broad range of sins, but what did you make of his campaign? Why did he not catch perhaps the wins that people were thinking he might do? H I think there's probably a lot I think there's a lot of reasons that go into it. The fact that he started running for president in the Democratic primary, um I mean he is he is I don't know actually if he still calls himself a Democrat or not. I actually don't know that. I know he's running as an independent. Uh but like Bernie is an independent who ran as a Democrat, so whatever. These are labels. But uh you know, he he switched strategies pretty late in the game. Uh number one. Number two, um the two-party system is completely bought in and trying to prevent a viable third party from challenging either one of them. And we've seen that play out already. So in order to um you know obviously we we we haven't seen it done successfully in our country but in order to even have a shot at it in my view you would have had to have started and had a very strong strategy to do that much longer before he did. You'd have a lot more money. you'd need a ton of money because you're not only battling the Republican party and the Democrat party, you're battling the entire mainstream media machine and um and and having to you got to have the money to be able to break through all of that. Uh it's I mean it's a it's a huge feat and it's a it's a huge task and what to speak of getting on the ballot. Um RFK is not on he's not on the ballot in all 50 states. M I don't know what his current count is, but even states that had previously accepted uh his signatures and have said, "Okay, you're going to be on the ballot." He's fighting legal challenges and lawsuits in many of those states, when when are those going to be resolved? I I don't know. It's a very tough It's a tough situation. Yeah. Talking of those sort of swings and moves, it does, I think, create just confusion. you know, people like an easy sort of simple narrative and to why were you and what were you doing before and what's actually going on, right? So, given that you've had sort of some pretty big swings over the last decade or so, how do people know that that is coming from a place of uh principles and motivation and not a desire for power and just more attention? My my foundation and and principles uh haven't shifted. uh they have always been rooted uh um they have always been rooted in for me the reason why I ran is you know how how can I best be of service to to the American people um and rooted in those principles of freedom and liberty, peace and security and you know my challenging even leaders of my own party. President Obama was the president. He had just gotten reelected the year that I was elected to Congress. He's the president from my home state of Hawaii originally. And uh you know what the I think the first the first example or um sign to the leaders of the Democratic party when I was elected to Congress that I wasn't just going to be a follower tow the party line, you know, go along, get along, that whole thing. It came within the first six months of my being in Congress when President Obama uh said he was going to come seek authorization from Congress to go and start a new regime change war in Syria. I was sitting on the foreign affairs committee and uh you know did all my due diligence and you know briefings and hearings and all all of these things and ultimately concluded that this would be a very bad idea that that could end up in disaster and said so publicly. I mean, this this was why I ran for Congress, to to actually be in a position to at least influence, impact, or make those decisions to to prevent us from making those costly mistakes of the past that had taken the lives of people that I served with. immediately upon uh I was the first Democrat first Democrat to speak out against President Obama's request and within 24 hours got a call from the White House not saying hey Tulsi can you just explain to us like what's your thought process? Why are why are you coming out in such strong opposition? What what are we not sharing that you've whatever? There was none of that. It was just how dare you go against your president period. Why are you not a team player? Essentially, and it was a betrayal of the party. They viewed it as a betrayal of the party and a betrayal of President Obama rather than seeing it for what it was, which was a very serious disagreement on the policy that that he was putting forward. Very tribal internally. Very much so. Do you miss it? Which part? All the the the Well, I don't know what the daily routine of I I don't I don't miss, you know, and and this is I didn't run for reelection um that last year that I was in Congress. I don't miss how dysfunctional it has become and it's gotten vastly more dysfunctional um you know in in those later years but especially now even when I was there um you know when I was there I passed my first piece of legislation very quickly under as a freshman Democrat and a Republican couldn't controlled Congress because at that time you could still build relationships and get things done like actually solve problems. Uh that's a rare very rare thing to see these days. Um I think that there are many people who are just not interested in it. They're more interested in the talking point or fighting the so-called fight instead of saying, "Hey, you know, let's figure this out and and put our heads together." Uh there are some who are afraid of being criticized for working with someone from the other party. Uh there's a lot of different factors downstream from a lot of this tribalism again this sort of inability or unpreparedness and that at its core what does it come down to? It comes down to people who are putting their own self-interest or their political interest ahead of the interest of of the country and our and the American people which is really like that's the whole reason why you should be there. And so for those reasons uh for those reasons I don't miss it. what what I um what I do miss and there's been a there's been a couple of situations over this past you know little almost four years since I've left uh the withdrawal from Afghanistan and uh the disastrous and tragic fires that happened in Maui and Hawaii uh in those those two situations as I saw either inaction or lack of true accountability. I thought, man, if I could only be on that armed services committee questioning those uh general officers and the secretary of defense about all that they did wrong uh in that in that withdrawal and and the fact that even still there hasn't been any kind of true accountability or oversight over the multiple layers of failures that occurred for um people who were in who I served when I was in Congress for eight years in Hawaii. It seems like the pace of everything is ramping up at the moment. Whether it's the sort of vitriol and tribalism that's happening internally, whether it's the inflammatory rhetoric of just normal people online, whether it's the pace that memes move out, just just think for a second that in the last 6 weeks, we went from hawk to a girl to to which there's been this weird intersection between the hawk to a girl and political memes, by the way. Oh, yeah. Well, it's one and the same. Uh, straight into the Biden scenile look at the debate thing. Straight into Trump gets shot in the ear. Straight back into uh JD Vance into uh Biden steps down. Camela now is about like in and now by the way the latest one of today and yesterday is if you type in Donald Trump assassination attempt, nothing comes up in the Google algorithm. Yeah, they put out a state I think they put out a statement about that. Oh, the the AI had mis labeled something. had mischaracterized something like that. Uh I don't know whether that was Gemini uh re-racing the founding fathers. There was that Did you see Trump talking about how Christians will never have to vote again? I saw a clip. I didn't see the speech or the context, but I saw a clip. Okay. So, there is a a section of a Trump speech where he says, "In four years, you don't have to vote again." and many many clips stop there. The next sentence is we'll have it fixed so good you won't have to vote again. Uh so you know in a world of cheap fakes and stuff like that but it just seems to me that on top of that as well we also had um who was the guy that called out Elon Musk recently? It was Gavin Newsome said that he wanted legislation to stop AI manipulated speech going on. Go. Well, like if selective editing is able to achieve the same outcome, is there something that's particularly special about chopping together words that somebody did say versus actually creating from, you know, an AI GPT? Yeah. Something that somebody didn't say. Yeah, it's just it doesn't surprise me that the general public are becoming kind of despondent. And I think one of the things that you get is not people really being convinced by any one narrative, but just sort of holding their hands up and going, I'm I just don't trust anything now. I'm just confused and kind of a bit nihilistic and I I I'm I'm I'm disengaged. And I think that you're seeing especially I know that this is the fact Gen Z men are more likely to say that no particular political uh pursuit, no particular political issue is of great importance to them than ever before. Interesting. So they're just very very sort of stepped back. We're also this is coinciding with a movement away from left-leaning beliefs amongst men that are Gen Z as well. Um I had uh the guy that did the original research on that and did the original analysis of all of the data. I had him uh come on the show. It was fascinating. Yeah. Fascinating look. But um I think I think part So I I have a few thoughts on on some of the things that you're saying. Uh first of all, you you you really cannot blame people for feeling that way. I completely completely understand it. Um, I feel that way sometimes and I, you know, every day is is just, you know, having to, uh, to look at look at all of this stuff that's going on. I think it's a positive step for people to uh, be generally distrusting of everything that they're being everything that's being thrown at them. I think that is actually a positive step versus people blindly believing like, oh, I saw this on TV, therefore it must be true. Even though that still happens, the more we have people knowing that they have to be critical thinkers and exercise some kind of analysis, whatever they're being told by whatever side is a positive step. Um, you know, the the thing about uh Gen Z men in particular not finding resonance with any political issue. I think this is where there's there's work that has to be done to you. I mean, you know, I I I have a lot of friends uh who are like, ah, I hate politics. I don't want to have anything to do with politics. But there for there's for some reason a disconnect between, you know, quote unquote politics versus like the things that affect you in your everyday life that actually are very much directly connected to what kind of uh people we are electing into office either by voting for or against or by just staying home. Staying home and not voting is a political action in and of itself. And so, you know, of course, at the basic level, it's taxes. At the basic level, it's the health and well-being of our communities and our schools. Uh, you know, a lot of parents and families have been activated over these last few years around the whole, you know, boys playing against girls and girls sports. And, you know, you see that there's two boxes in the Olympics that this morning. Unreal. Unreal. Exhibit A. It's just look I think and anyone who has an open mind can see that insanity for what it is. I think that it's going to take a little bit of time to overcome the conceptual inertia of what there's there's people that are biologically male competing in female sports. That's strange. Like oh god. Right. Okay. Like actually legislating against this across each different sporting body is going to take a long time and that's just going to play catch-up. But if there was a front line, if there was a vanguard of sports, it would be the ones that involve punching each other in the face. You would think like that. That should be, you know, I mean, swimming swimming did the the thing at 13 years old, whatever it is, uh, medians stage three, if you get past whatever something of puberty, you can't do it. I'm like, okay, well, that you But yes, good to get all sports on board with that, but let's prioritize the one where you punch each other with your hands. Yeah. like that seems like and yeah these two athletes failed uh gender tests I think it was called or sex tests um only within the last couple of years and then because the IOC don't abide by the same type of uh testing protocol or the same procedures uh I saw one of them [ __ ] up a girl earlier on today yeah and Something like that, especially uh you know in this age of even the corporate cancel culture, something like that will only change if enough people actually speak up and criticize it and call it out for what it is and how dangerous it actually is. I think the change that we saw in swimming happened specifically because of that. There were female swimmers who who were the tip of the spear and who are the tip of the spear in in actually vocalizing it in order to force that change. Traveling should be about the journey, not the chaos of packing, which is why I am a massive fan of Nomadic. They make the best luggage that I have ever found. 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Speaking of media and kind of the pace that all of this stuff moves at, talk to me about this Tik Tok bill. Um, at its core, it's it was being sold as as a lot of things. Obviously, it passed the House and the Senate with bipartisan support. It's been signed into law by President Biden. Uh, so it is now law of the land. Um, at its core, the thing that you would have only heard people like Ron Paul say or Thomas Massie in the House of Representatives or Rand Paul in the US Senate, um, is is actually something that even the ACLU was focused on, which is at its core, it is an anti-free speech bill. Uh and I anytime you give the government the power, in this case the president of the United States, the power to decide what platform you and I are allowed to both exercise our right to free speech on and what platforms we are allowed to uh gather information from. At its core, that's a violation of free speech. Um the the other issue that was tied to the usual, you know, the usually the most egregious violations of our liberties occur in the name of uh national security, keeping us safe, Patriots Act type. Correct. And this was no different. And Ron Paul, you know, as usual, was was very um powerful and very correct on this and in his statement that this was the most egregious violation of civil liberties since the Patriot Act was passed. But basically in a nutshell, again, I didn't hear a uh the proponents for this legislation naturally didn't highlight this provision that was in the bill. It's it's a very small provision, but it basically says that the president of the United States alone has the power to designate a uh a firm or a business as being and and this is not the exact verbiage, but basically an agent of a foreign adversary. Period. And while there are a few different examples of countries that that they are calling out as foreign adversaries in theory, let's say President Biden is there, Elon Musk and X are the only platform that are not playing ball with with the White House and and taking their direction on who they want censored or what words or phrases or narratives they want censored. In theory, let's say President Biden says, "Okay, well, Elon, Elon Musk is doing business with this country that we deem as a foreign adversary and has I think I don't know what the percentage of the business interest was, but it was a quite low bar and therefore uh his platform needs to be shut down because I as president deem his association uh I deem him to be an agent of a foreign adversary. Period. There's no well uh like there's there's no there's no way to appeal that. There's no uh there there's no recourse from that for a guy like Elon Musk for example and obviously he's the most prominent example now and something that he even spoke out about in warning about the consequences of this legislation. Um and th those are the two primary uh major problems with that legislation that again go back to the fundamentals and the foundations and very often it's like oh well we need to protect kids or we need to protect people from disinformation. We need to protect uh our our security and all of these arguments that that were at the forefront of those who were proponents of this bill again from both sides. But you know, even those who had good intentions, if you're not making those decisions that are rooted in these fundamental freedoms that make us who we are in this country and that that that are the pillars of of the founding of our country, this is how we continually find ourselves in positions just as with the Patriot Act. Again, many people with good intentions voted for that, but we find ourselves in these situations where increasingly our freedoms and liberties are taken away. And very often in the name of well we have to do this to protect you that we find ourselves in a place where we are we are uh we are not in the free country uh that we that we thought we had. Tik Tok's very dangerous I think and a lot of people have problems with it. I'm not a fan of it. I think that it's almost certainly trying to craft a narrative that makes people in the West hate the West. I know that there is a Chinese sort of kale version of it that's restricted at certain times and the sorts of stuff that's pushed through the algorithm isn't shown in the same kind of a way. So given the fact that you're stuck between a rock and a hard place which is we have foreign power that definitely does not have the west's interests at heart owning the fastest growing social media which most young people use and get their news from and get their insights from and all of the rest of it. data, facial mapping, microexpression detection to really really ramp up the limbic hijack of how this algorithm works. You have all of that which presumably you're not that much of a fan of like in and of itself even though you might support it principally. And then you have the other side which is this bill which contravenes and sets precedents that you're worried about. What do you I choose freedom. I choose freedom. I it because then where do you draw the line? If if you have a government that says you are only allowed to get information from these sources and not any other sources, then they they are taking away our our free will and our own faculty to get information for ourselves and make decisions for ourselves. So in this you know this this environment of information warfare uh I mean the answer is to you know the answer to uh speech in situations that you don't like is always more speech anytime anytime because okay well today they're talking about Tik Tok in China what is it going to be tomorrow what country or what entity or what platform or what business is it going to be I understand how it's a difficult precedent I think that we have uh such a unique pipeline at the moment of saying that you know countering bad speech with good speech is a good idea. But when particular types of speech get algorithmically suppressed that leads to a world in which the good speech is essentially non-existent speech which again goes back to okay so we have X as the one social media platform that is not playing that game. uh this legislation has put the power into the hands of the president to essentially be able to take that platform away. So so we assume and this this is the danger and this is the difference between a free society versus an authoritarian society is when you put the this kind of power into the hands of government, you would hope that they would do the right thing. But I in in every situation that we've seen, there are people in positions of power in our own government here in the United States who choose to do the wrong thing and weaponize those uh authorities that have been put into law to serve their own political interest, to serve their own financial interest, to serve their own interests of remaining in power and ultimately in doing so taking away our freedom. What would you do? Let's say that this didn't get passed, repealed, whatever. Um, there are a lot of people that have concerns about Tik Tok, especially parents, and what it's doing to their kids. What would you suggest? Have you have you got any suggestions? Okay, we don't do this. People do have or they're going to be exposed to it. I think that the comparison with X is kind of fair, but on the other side, anybody that's looked at X and looked at Tik Tok knows one of them is way harder to swipe off, and it's Tik Tok. this permanent endless feed of stuff and it's all designed and that's where and this is and this is one where I think there there was and there still is there there should be opportunity uh to get bipartisan support in dealing with um all of these different social media companies that ultimately are all finding ways to profit off of our attention and and selling our attention and interest to to improve their bottom line uh and kids often and you know there's been multiple studies done about how this is affecting them. and the social dilemma documentary was very very powerful. uh and and so I I think there is an opportunity to look there especially as we look at how these how these algorithms and these platforms are affecting young people and kids um to to I I don't know what exactly that looks like in the end but that's a very real conversation I think that can and should be had uh both from from uh the standpoint of how this impacts kids um and and also just from the standpoint of of basic privacy that if if I'm going to go and and you know use a social media platform form, I should have the right to know how my information and my attention and the things that I'm choosing to spend time looking at is being monetized and uh and and frankly like how even an American company is taking that information and selling it to the highest bidder of any other country in the world that that may or may not have our nation's best interest at heart. It's such a it's such a difficult one because you know I can see I really can see both sides and it seems like I think a lot of people maybe sort of center right you know kind of working class I I don't like what my kids are being fed on this Chinese social media thing and I also don't like increased state ability to stop me so they kind of like split their brain in half. But I think again this is where this is where also I think it's important to have as as a central point of this conversation especially as it comes to kids is is like government shouldn't be the end all beall answer and I know there are parents who are working with Exactly. and and some parents are taking action and working with their schools and you know taking phones away from kids while they're at school and but but ultimately it's like okay if you're a parent um you've placed this phone into the hands of your child and and there's there's responsibility that goes with those decisions. It would be so interesting to see um a full phone ban in schools. I know that there's certain schools that are sort of putting that out now that basically you cross the threshold maybe it has to go into a locker or once you get past a particular threshold or whatever. Uh but yeah, I mean I I'm just so glad it would make a huge it would make a huge difference. I think it would be massive. Well, I mean the difference is or the choice at the moment apparently is between kids either using their phones or vaping. There's like no vaping in class signs because that's apparently a sufficiently big deal that it needs to be legislated by the schools. So odd. So, here's the other thing, and I've been thinking about this quite a lot. Uh, especially given that everyone's over the fact that the ex the former president got shot in the head only 3 weeks ago, shot in the head by an actual gun with an actual bullet in it. Um, X during that time was it was the first time you the town square and it's very important for people to have this opportunity and free speech and blah blah. And I was like, "Ah, yeah, I know, but you there's other areas that you can get your information." And that was one day where I thought, "Oh, this serves the most unique purpose." Because I wasn't going to Instagram. I wasn't going to Facebook. I wasn't going to get it on threads. I wasn't going to get it on TikTok. I was for eight hours checking every 20 minutes on X to find out what had happened. And that was the place that I went. I went, "Okay, that's that it it serves a very unique purpose in that way." And and even in in this specific example, uh that was where I first saw and learned about it and it came from videos that you know, iPhone videos that people were posting um and seeing how that information was was um relayed in real time and how different it was from the headlines, the very first headlines that we saw coming out of, you know, CNN, MSNBC, even AP P and a lot of these mainstream news outlets, you know, it was it was so stark to see the difference between like clearly if you have if you have heard uh shots fired before like I know that sound and as soon as I saw a video with with sound, it's like oh he there multiple shots fired. Yeah. and then to to flip over to CNN and be like, "President Trump fell to the ground and uh popping sounds were heard." It it took several hours before they would even issue one headline that said, you know, there was an assassination attempt or even just that there were shots fired at a Trump rally. What's the uh So, I understand that that that was the headline. Some people would say the prudence during a time when you're uncertain, not wanting to cause too much public panic, all the rest of it would maybe be a good strategy. What is the why would they do that? Yeah. What's the straw man case for? What's the nefarious case for why they would trying to make Trump look silly at a time where the the Fox News had been making Biden look silly for falling down on a stage and and drawing some kind of parallel to make Trump look weak. Uh but it's so shortsighted. I mean agree. My god. Because you're going to have to change the headline at some point and you know that Jack Bobic or someone else is going to screenshot it and put it. Here's the interesting though. It the interesting thing though is you saw that happening just after the shooting occurred and for several hours after. And then you see Christopher Ray, the FBI director in front of Congress saying, "Well, we still the other day, we still don't know if he was actually hit by a bullet." Or maybe it could have been a glass shard, or maybe it could have been shrapnel or it could have been this or that. And this was just like in the last 72 hours, several days after the shooting had occurred, everyone agreed that the shots were fired. Unfortunately, someone was killed, others seriously injured. um you know how incredibly irresponsible it was for the director of the FBI. All he had to if if he if he still wasn't sure at this point, which I find shockingly hard to believe, why wouldn't he just say, you know, I can't comment on this or we are still investigating this or whatever the case may be. I I think that these things the this was not an unforced error on his part. It was an attempt to cast doubt on President Trump's integrity and to make light of the seriousness of what had just occurred. Because the difference between actually being hit by a bullet and being hit by a piece of glass that was first hit by a bullet meant to hit you is symbolically important. Well, you you look at the narratives, right? You look at you look at well President Trump in in his in his uh nomination acceptance speech at the Republican convention. I believe he said something like, "I took a bullet for democracy." Something along those lines. And it was after several days after that that you have the director of the FBI and many others, by the way, on MSNBC and Joy Reid. She's like, "Well, we still don't know if he was actually shot." calling into question uh and and making it appear that this was some it was it was fueling something that I saw a a dramatically high number of of Democrats I don't know it was like 30 something% believe that President Trump staged the whole thing. Mhm. So I I So it all feeds into that I I think we're sufficiently far away from the blast radius of that event for me to put up like my this is even more of an unpopular opinion. Okay. Right. Okay. The internet's not mad at me enough already. So, uh, about a third of Democrats did or still do believe that this was staged, that it was kind of a false flag type event in order to bolster Trump's uh, machismo and his positive standing with the electorate and everybody that got to see that. One of the uh ironic things, a more critical person than me might say, is odd for people on the right, to have a problem with knee-jerk conspiracy theories around presidential assassinations because there has been a little bit of a culture, some would say, over large events like that, maybe being knee-jerked by people on the right to say, well, how do we know that this was actually the case? And so on and so forth. So the pearl clutching that I saw, how could you? He was shot in the ear by a crazy incel with a gun. How could you say that? I thought, hey, look, I don't think that that should ever be the thing that's said, but it does feel a little bit rich coming from the side that quite often is a little bit fast and loose with throwing conspiracy theories out, whether it's the basement of a pizza company that's holding children hostage or, you know, pick your favorite one of choice. Um it did seem a little I found that interesting the sort of like ah and you go I think maybe we've sw yeah I I I understand the point the the exception I would make to that is um you know one turn of a head and we would be talking about the now deceased President Trump it's close and the seriousness the seriousness of what obviously played out. Oh yeah. I mean it it was and that that that's you know and I get it. Yeah. There there are theories about everything under the sun these days. Uh this this one is one that I believe, you know, sufficiently cut and dry that well, it's sufficiently cut and dry, but also is one and and you know, you you you heard people from across the spectrum and Democrats and Republicans talking about the seriousness of this and you know that that's a whole other conversation about people who are increasing um increasingly divisive and violent rhetoric now saying there's no place for political violence and And so that's that's a whole other thing. But in these moments, even if this I mean, look, if this had happened to President Biden, there should have been the same immediate response of of recognizing the seriousness of of what had had occurred. Thoughts and prayers for literally Hitler is an interesting juaposition that that is an interesting point. Thoughts and prayers for literally literally Hitler yesterday for the guy that they called Hitler yesterday. Yeah. In other news, this episode is brought to you by Maui Newi Venison. 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That's m au nuiven venison.com/modernwisdom and modernwisdom at checkout. Can we just try and imagine for a second what would have happened had Trump's head been one centimeter maybe an inch to the left because that would have been the most by far the best video assassination in history. There would there's never been any uh you look at how many Zapruda film type thing you have of JFK. Absolutely nothing. No. I mean, iPhone cameras everywhere in every direction. And what do you what do you think would have happened if Trump had actually been hit? I don't know. I don't know. And I think in this environment, um, you know, I know that that I would like to have what I would like I would like to have seen uh in in the sense of a coming together as Americans after such a a a tragic situation. Um, but it's honestly it's hard to say. It's hard to say. And we're just on with whatever the next meme is now. You know, people have moved on. I It blows my mind how quickly people have moved on from the fact that Trump got shot in the head. Yeah. Uh, and there's just new It's coconut. We're all coconut pled. It's coconut season, you know? Like, don't worry. I just go You You've got a few new zingers here that I have not heard. That's That's a good one. Being coconut pled. Yeah. I'm tapped into the Gen Z. Is that is I'm I'm assuming that's a connection to Kla Harris and the coconuts. Correct. Okay. Yeah, it's called being coconut pill. Is this a thing now? I just apparently I don't know. There was that thing Charlie XCX something about Brat Summer. Yeah, I did see that one. I don't know what Brat means. I still don't know what it means. Um but it's supposedly good. Like cool. She's like cool. I mean anyone that's ever seen that woman and it's green. Everything has to be green. Why? If you're brat. Okay. All right. I don't know. Uh yeah, I mean it just the pace is absurd. I at the start of this year, um Rogan mentioned he said sort of a basically prepare yourself for the next this first time that I've been at this level leading up to a presidential uh election. Right in the belly of the beast. [ __ ] me. I mean, this is You want to talk about front lines? This is the front lines right here. doing two emergency episodes back to back that was doing the the front lines. So, one of the other things that we saw, you know, uh was was it divine intervention that sort of save Trump? Was it something else that was going on? Certainly an interesting angle, I think, to the political discourse at the moment is the strained relationship that people on the left have with God and faith and this almost antagonistic relationship uh with religion and belief. certain religions certain um what do you make of that? How do you sort of see I have a whole chapter in my book uh on this exactly um and and in in that you know I talk about how and refer to once again the the history of the Democratic Party and how uh it it really has grown as of late where it was once a party that that there was no aversion to mention of God. There was it was a it was and this was the party that I joined. It was a more inclusive party. I welcomed people from all different religious backgrounds and faiths and different beliefs um to now fast forward to and and it was something that happened over time. I mean Jimmy Carter was an evangelical Christian and even when he was elected president there were some people around him who were just like oh I don't know if this is like too much. And this this is something that has increased over time to where in the last Democratic convention that was held obviously it was held virtually uh during the whole COVID thing. Uh but even um saying the pledge of allegiance they made a big show of eliminating saying one nation awkward silence refused to say under God. I didn't know that. Even as they said the pledge of allegiance interesting over Zoom. Um so you know seeing seeing uh how today's Democratic party uh is you know they they are targeting Catholics and Christians primarily um trying to eliminate like God God really any mention of God from from every facet of public life. You had Kla Harris when she was a senator on the judiciary committee uh going after and attacking and ultimately opposing uh nominee for a judgehip specifically because he was an observant and devouted Catholic and a member of the Knights of Columbus. Uh you [ __ ] is that? The Knights of Columbus. It is um it is an allmale organization. Uh, I don't think it's like it's not govern I don't know if it's governed by the Catholic Church, but it is a Catholic organization. Knights of Columbus. It does sound way cooler than me and my friends. But it's it's a community. It's a community like serviceoriented organization. They, you know, they go and do good things in in the community essentially, but but it is centered around a very um a Catholic system. You give it a less intimidating name. It sounds masonic and dangerous and you know spooky. Um they did the same thing with Amy Coney Barrett who's now in the Supreme Court uh with uh now um since passed away but Senator Diane Feinstein warned against her when she went for confirmation before the same judiciary committee saying you know I'm concerned the dogma lives loudly within you. All of these things going against our constitution which says there shall be no religious test to serve in any public office period. Um and uh it's just it just it it unfortunately um it it goes against kind of the whole concept of freedom of religion where you can have your beliefs. You can be atheist, agnostic, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, whatever uh whatever you know your your your choice is. That is literally the concept of freedom is not that you're not allowed to practice your religion in public and it's got to be just a private thing. You can do what you want. Where does this come from? Is this a uh contamination zone from trying to maybe upend some of the uh history of the United States? Is it that you know the uh sort of love of country and patriotism is rightcoded and so is maybe religious participation rightcoded and if we're not that then it means that we're the like I I don't understand given that there's so many Americans who are religious Christian it just seems like you're shooting yourself in the foot and the face why why would you a lot a lot of the things that they're pushing fall into that category because because they don't make sense and and they're so insanely radical that um that there are very negative consequences to those policies just at a basic human level. We talked about some of them already. um you know ultimately at its heart and again I I don't find any logic or rationale to the actual reasonings that they're giving but at its heart when you have a party um that is controlled by people who don't believe in objective truth that there for example that there are biological differences between men and women that they want to be the authority that tells us what is true and what is not true. They want to be the authority that tells us uh what is acceptable information, what is not. You know, misinformation, disinformation, hate speech, violent speech, acceptable speech, whatever the case may be. Uh they they see themselves as that authority and they recognize that those who believe in a higher power, whatever that may be, um are not going to buy into them being that higher power or that authority and and the ultimate you know influencer that people should be concerned with. And so at its core that's that is where this is coming from. It comes back to power and them seeing those who believe in God or who are following their particular spiritual path or faith as not being willing to bend the knee to the power of the democrat elite uh and the the positions that they hold in our government. So there's a story about William Tinale who was a scholar and linguist. He was the first person to translate the Bible into common English from the original Hebrew and Greek. And what you had when you went to mass was a conduit between you and the priest. So if you as a common me and you are common peasants and we go on Sunday to church service, our relationship with God is mediated through the priest. And because the Bible is not written in the common language, we have to go. So they've kind of centralized power in this one forcing point in the middle. She's the one person that can actually read it and that William Tinddale was persecuted for doing that because the then the relationship had become completely decentralized. It was totally accessible to everybody and um it doesn't feel too if what you're saying is right it doesn't feel like that's too dissimilar that you know if you are able to get your meaning and your trust from somebody through a direct personal relationship with God versus not daddy government, then maybe you don't need us so much. And it's so like if this stuff's true, and I'm too green behind the ears in this country to actually be able to sort of contextualize much of it, it's so unsophisticated and infantile. Like it's so like unimpressive that you know the people that run the forefront of culture, the country that's behind economic engine and all the rest of this stuff, they America coughs, everyone else catches a cold. All of this that these people are like actually really unsophisticated. Yeah. And stupid and uh they don't understand second or third order consequences. They don't or do they they're not even trying. How? Which makes it even worse in my view. You know, if you've got someone who's Exactly. to like eat like just try do the work, try to figure this out. And look, you're we're all human. You might make a mistake. You might make a wrong decision. Got it? But these are people who aren't even they don't care enough. And this is this is the most disheartening and the most dangerous part. They don't even care enough to make that effort. One of the hardest parts of running anything like this podcast is streamlining the little things behind the scenes. And once you find a system that works, everything gets easier. So, if you run an e-commerce business, this is where ShipStation comes in. ShipStation gives you complete control over your shipping operations from one place. But it's not just about making shipping easier. It's about giving you back your sanity. Because who wants to spend hours figuring out shipping rates when you could be doing literally anything else? 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Now I know that the dynamics that are in there and the incentives are much stronger than the individuals and you sort of take the whole reason that this system works is that you pluck one person out, plug another in and the incentives warp what would be a maybe honest competent person into a useless liar. Like I get that. But uh I do get the sense that you know it is salvageable. Maybe this is just my sort of blind white pill Michael malice hope here. Um, but I do I I I just think, God, look at how useless these people. And that's one of the uh enlightening things I think I've realized over the last 3 years is I've climbed up through the echelon of being degenerate microniche influencer to wherever I am now and been exposed to people that, you know, really rich or powerful or or highly regarded or whatever and realize that it's actually idiots all the way up. No one really knows what they're doing that much. There's people that are doing it with goodwill and and uh potential and trying to do their best, but everybody's figuring it out as they go along for the most part. Hopefully not in the army, but that's reassuring to me cuz I think, oh god, well, you know, I have friends that are, I think, would make unbelievable heads of state or they could be a leader of a great business or do whatever. And you think, oh, but they're who are they to be able to compete with and you go, "Well, actually, I can compare them like for like. There is no secret source hiding behind and the veil kind of falls from your eyes a little bit." Yeah. I've got this uh idea called a yogurt lid moment that a friend uh taught me about. So, um a friend was interviewing a famous atheist in the UK and as his camera guy is setting all of the different bits and pieces up, the guy that he's speaking to says, "I'm a little bit hungry. Would you mind if I went and got a yogurt?" He said, "To your house, your yogurt. Please crack on." So my friend is still there, you know, sort of revering this unbelievable titan of of uh podcasting and and and speaking and literature and stuff. And he goes over and watches this guy get a yogurt out of the fridge. He comes back down. He sits down, takes the lid off the yogurt, looks at it, and then licks the lid of the yogurt. He's like, "In that moment, the veils fell from my eyes and I saw him for who he truly was." So, we talk about a yogurt lid moment, which is when you kind of see the fallibility and normalness of someone that you used to think was godly. And um I think that basically the last two and a half years for me has just been a permanent conveyor belt of yogurt lid moments. Uh as I've gone like, okay, well, I mean, still very impressive, but not untouchable. Still very impressive, but not infallible. Still very impressive, but not always perfect. Yeah, I I agree. And this is and should be a cause for hope. Uh no, I all is not lost. Absolutely not. Um recognizing that fact of what you've just laid out and and when people come and tell me like, hey, you know, uh I I want to run for office or I really want to I I I see what's wrong and I want to find a way to be a part of the solution. but either saying I don't know how or saying what you're saying like it just seems impossible like I'm not them. I didn't come up through Yale or Harvard or some fancy Ivy League. I don't have money. I'm not like I haven't, you know, served in office for 20 years. Like I don't have what they have. And my answer to them is is always the same, which is the most important quality. The most important qualification that any of us should seek from someone who wants to serve in public office is your motivation and the principles and sense of purpose that you are grounded in. You may be, you know, a stay-at-home mom. You may be a small business owner. You may be a high school teacher. Uh you may be, you know, a multi-billionaire uh you know, CEO of of a major startup. What or or anything in between. uh what matters every one of these experiences are are lived experiences of people across country. Maybe the multi-billionaire CEO is a little more rare, but ultimately in business or education or healthcare or all sectors of our society, the one thing that matters is are you are you motivated by the singular sense of purpose to serve to to do what is necessary to get the information to be that independent critical thinker to make the best decision you can possibly make uh towards that end of solving problems that serve the interests of your community, the state or country and and that the barriers to access that you believe are there aren't actually like there's not like you said there's not some magical checklist that one must go down and check before they're allowed to run for office and that's the beauty of the vision that our founders had for our country that that uh you know look at the qualifica what are the qualifications to run for president be a citizen of the United States and be 35 years old that's it you don't have to have a college degree you don't have to be a multi-millionaire you don't Those are that those are the qualifications. And this is where okay well the barriers to access that are real that exist is you have as I saw in and experienced in 2020 well the media mainstream media worked very closely with the Democrat party leadership and they pick and choose which candidates they want to feature and what are the narratives and all of that. And so yeah, okay, these are realities you got to fight against. But this is the beauty of an increasingly, you know, small D democratized sum system of information and access to information that even as as again going back to more people are just becoming critical thinkers and more cynical of the information they're getting off of the traditional legacy platforms and you have many people turning to podcasts like yours and Rogan's and you know so many others to to just listen and to learn and to uh kind of satisfy that curiosity so that they can make better informed decisions. And that right there is the answer to like okay well what do we do in this situation that we are in? Number one get informed. Number two make sure that you vote. Make sure that you vote. Almost half the country still doesn't vote in these these most important elections. And again people like oh well it won't make a difference. Well, if you don't vote, it certainly won't make a difference. But that is the only way that we can bring about the kind of change that we need to see at the board of education in your local community, you know, with your mayor or your state representative or your governor, your member of Congress, senator, and the president of the United States. That's it. So, if you don't like what's happening now, uh we have to fulfill the responsibility that comes with being citizens of the United States of America. and and bring about that change in our leadership that we want to see. Do you know how it works in Australia with uh elections? Are you mandated to vote? I think it's an obligation for you to vote. I believe that's true. What do you think about that as a policy? I don't think that it would result in a better outcome. You mean a more accurate representation of the populace? Correct. uh if you're forced like and I don't know what the I don't know what the penalty is there if you don't vote. I think you can go in and I think you can even sort of scan and put an X like off the side of a box. You can sort of just you know graffiti the piece of paper and submit it. But I think you have to go in Yeah. Uh I'm going to get torn up. just I'm a big believer in free will and um and and making making the case for why you should care enough even about just yourself and you know your home and your livelihood and how much taxes you pay and your healthare even if you don't care about anybody else in the world at least care enough about yourself to get informed and be a part of the solution. Wouldn't it be fascinating to see what it would do? I'd love to be able to just run another universe in which we have whatever the result in November is and then you do another one where you had to get all 335 million Americans to go and do that. I would love to know cuz it's kind of like YouTube comment sections in a way. You don't know what it is that compels people to comment and not everybody comments the same thing. Lots of people comment opposite things and they have arguments in diametrically opposed ways. But there is a single motivator or there are multiple motivators that bring together all commenters, right? Even if they hold differing points of view. So there are some threads. You've picked a cohort out of a bigger group and okay, what what's in this sample? I would be so interesting to just see what we're missing. How many people vote like 100 million? How many votes do we get overall? Uh I think it's a little bit more than that. I think it hovers around 50%. Sometimes it's 55, sometimes it's a little bit less, but I think it hovers around half. So fascinating. I think it hovers around half of registered voters, not all eligible voters. Uh that number would be would be significantly higher than those that actually turn out to vote. The the concern that I have is if people aren't self-motivated enough now just to get out and vote and you mandate it, what flippant just to put an X. I'll go and throw the X on the cardboard box. You know what I mean? like I don't I I you know maybe I could be proved wrong by by an example in another country but to me it h that motivation has to come from within if you want a different outcome that can only come about with a more informed voter. Rory Sutherland had uh this response. I was talking to him. He's behavioral economist, amazing advertiser, phenomenal mind. And I was talking to him in the wake of the uh stipulated last election the uh debated whether or not it was accurate or not. And uh I said, "Well, look, we've got blockchain technology now. We could do all of this stuff on chain. It could be in a ledger that is never manipulated and blah blah blah." And he said his I thought because he's very pro technology. I thought he would be all up for it. And he says, "I think when deciding the future leader of your country, it's the sort of choice that requires a [ __ ] walk." Like his point was that it's the sort of thing. So the vote's not enough. You have to make the physical effort to walk in the road. He thinks that it's the sort of thing where you need to go to the local tennis court, which is, you know, 15 minutes away. It it needs a [ __ ] walk was his. And I thought actually that's a really that's a genuinely good insight. you know the line I've seen these lines these lines are insane you know to go and do it you pay a high price as a time there's nothing more valuable than time yeah yeah yeah so I think just going back to what you were saying before about the um credentials and competence of the people in power uh and lack thereof I think that's why people have such a bad taste in their mouth about the fasttrack person who you know was legacy graduated, applied into some fancy university and then kind of gets nepotismed into whatever area of government. Because there is this sense deep down everybody has that that space of a credentialed, incompetent person with poor morals has taken the spot of an uncredentialed competent person who would do the right thing. And it it does seem a little bit strange to me that a lot of the people in power are kind of outfront about how how much they really really care about, you know, equity and really wanting everybody to have the the same chance. Meanwhile, I go, "Well, you're [ __ ] at your job. I can see that you're [ __ ] at your job. So, if you cared that much, leave for someone better to come in." Oh, hang on. No, it's sort of rules for the and not for me. It does seem oddly ironic. It's completely true and I think the this is becoming even more and more highlighted and and the you know sunshine is is forcing the exposure to hide. There's nowhere to hide now. You you know they canled going back to you know Bobby Kennedy and I think Dean Phillips was on this podcast. Yep. um the fact that even in a Democratic primary, they wouldn't allow other candidates simply to go out and say, "Hey, here's why I feel I am better qualified or will do a better job than Joe Biden can do in this re-election campaign." And that's where, you know, there's been a a lot of um noise, you know, on Fox News and some of these other uh platforms like, "Oh, you know, it's a Kla Harris coronation." And like, yeah, it is, but why are you surprised? Cuz they've been they've been doing this for a long time. I, you know, this goes back to again 2016 with Hillary Clinton and then in 2020 we experience the same thing. And then in 2024, here we are again the same thing over and over again. This is not some like shocking situation that all of a sudden they are rolling out the red carpet for the candidate of their choosing. I wonder whether because each time that a election comes around the level of visibility, not necessarily transparency, but certainly exposure increases more and more and more as people are more online. There's a new social media. I was I don't think Tik Tok was even around. It would have been uh musically back in 2016. It would have been the sort of protot. Um, so you know, you have a changing media landscape which brings with it this real pivot of visibility, technology, access to the internet, so on and so forth. Um, so I wonder if each time that the same thing occurs, it is displayed so much more transparently, so much more plainly that it almost feels novel and you go, how could this happen? You go, it happened before. It didn't. That's a fair point. failed to sort of map the uh level of exposure mode of delivery. Yeah. Yeah. The delivery mechanism has changed so much that it actually feels different and how uh all pervasive that method of delivery has become. It's [ __ ] everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. One other thing that I guess intersects something you're interested in something that I've thought about a lot recently which is this sort of deriggation of family unit. That seems to be a big deal which is even more surprising than the religious thing to me. What do you make of the criticizing of family culture, the nuclear family at the moment? It it comes from the same uh place in the government taking control over raising of children or decisions that parents should be making for their kids. And ultimately again them wanting to be the ones who are dictating to us either you know how we live our lives or the things that we are not allowed to do. And specifically, obviously, there are a lot of different examples when it comes to parents and families, even at the basic level of of education. Um, I I was homeschooled all the way through high school. Uh, and this was a choice that my parents made with us. Uh, it was way back in the day before homeschool was was as popularized as it is today. There's a lot more resources and opportunities available for kids these days. But uh even even you know poll after poll after poll shows that approximately like an increasing number but these days it's about 75 to 80% of parents across all party lines all racial lines uh support parents right to choose how they want what kind of education is best for their kids whether it be you know homeschool or charter school or private school or religious school or public school, parents should simply have the right to choose what mode of education will work best for their kids. And yet this is a pillar of the Democratic party uh to oppose that. Uh and so, you know, there's there's a whole lot of um rhetoric that they throw at this decision. But ultimately when you look at that decision, you look at Gavin Newsome's recent law that he signed in in California saying that the government will decide uh you know if your child wants to go through some kind of you know they call it gender affirming care. I would call it you know gender mutilation surgery or child mutilation surgery that the parents don't even get to have a say in that in the state of California anymore. Uh it comes from that same place that we were talking about when you're talking about God. It comes down to people uh really believing that they and I know that they really do believe that. They really believe that they know what's best for these kids more than their own parents do. And they're willing to not just believe that, but turn that into law. And what comes with the passage of a law, it's the power of enforcement of that law. And one of the ways that in this example they're enforcing it is threatening parents that if you don't follow this law, we're going to take your child away from you. Seems absurd that any parent would support this. Like any agree any parent that says, "I trust the government to marshall and guardian my child more than I trust me to." I understand in some ways if you are so young that you haven't had kids or you decided or uh bad lucked out of not being able to have them that you're kind of stood on the sidelines hurling abuse at players on a pitch. Um so you don't you're not you've got no skin in the game. Any parent that says, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. The government should be able to tell me what to do with my children. I don't have kids yet, but I imagine when that system comes online, Yeah. you know, I Wow. I a very fierce level of defense, I think, over your household. Well, yeah. Uh I I would say so, but but the that that framing in my experience is not what goes through their mind. what goes through their mind is uh well I I am a good parent and I know how to raise my child and that aligns with uh you know if if my child you know my little boy says well I'm actually a girl then of course I will do the right thing and make sure that that child goes through that quote unquote gender affirming care irreversible surgery at the age of three or five or 10 or whatever it is we need the government to protect these these kids from those bad parents who aren't raising their children properly and who are causing harm to their children because they are not pushing their children towards these irreversible surgeries. So again, it goes back to that mindset of well we need to protect kids from these horrible parents who clearly don't care about them and that that should be the role of government. very very strange and very scary. It is. Um what so we spoke earlier on about how uh maybe in 2016 it came as a shock to everybody, not least Donald Trump, that he became president and maybe didn't quite have as much stuff set up and ready to go to be able to really hit the ground running. Yeah. Project 2025. How much truth's in this? What is it? Is it the boogeyman that everybody's saying it is? I've seen a little bit of it. Apparently, it's nearly a thousand pages and basically nobody's ever read it. I haven't either, so I'm not I don't I don't have much to say on this because I haven't read it. Okay. And I won't talk about something that that I don't that I don't know much about. You've got a thousand pages to get through. So, chop it up. Yeah. Um what what I've I guess I guess what I can comment on is just the response that I've seen. And so I've heard from, you know, President Trump made his own statement on it. He's kind he's like, I don't know what's in there. Like I don't have anything to do with this. I don't, you know, I he made his statement on it. I have heard from people who have read it and conservatives who say this, you know, this reflects my values and my views and they are the media is completely pushing a narrative that is not true that it's 100% false. On the Democrat side, you see it being used and weaponized to ferment fear that, you know, if you vote for Trump, this is the pro this is the game plan and this is what's going to be executed and it's going to take away women's right to vote and all this other stuff. Um, you know, I people who are interested in it should read it and make up their own minds for themselves ultimately. I'm sure they'll be thrilled. Don't fall don't I would just say don't be be a critical thinker. Uh if if you want to know more about Project 2025, I'm pretty sure it's probably online. You can probably read it for yourself or at least search through it and see the things that you care about. Do you find it difficult when you're presented with uh stories and narratives to be impartial when looking at what conservatives and Democrats are saying about it? Because it's kind of a little bit like just leaving a a football team that you've been with your entire life or getting out of a relationship or something with someone. you're naturally gonna have a little bit more kind of vitriol toward the person the group that you used to be a part of. Do you see that in yourself? Do you see No, because what we're talking about now is what I've what I've did throughout all of my time in Congress. Um, you know, I I knew enough to know not to accept anything at face value. And even through, you know, this the staff, my congressional staff, every day that we had votes, you know, the Democrats put out like, here's um the vote recommendation list. Here's the bills that we're voting on. Uh Democrats, we recommend that you vote yes on this and no on that. And then Republicans put out the exact same. They put out their own version of that sheet of paper. every single day there's votes telling Republicans, you should vote yes on this and vote no on that. And so what I would do is is have my staff gather both for me so I could take a look what what are these guys saying and what are those guys saying? And too often they were it was like you would you would think they were voting on two different pieces of legislation. And so it just required more work to actually look into what what is this legislation actually going to do? And so this is this is something that that I've done um for a very long time and it's something that I still do in in not taking what people who represent one side or another are saying at face value but actually going and doing my best to try to find okay well where are the facts where are the facts buried in this narrative and and you know the spin that's coming from this side or the spin that may be coming from that side uh before I make my own draw my own conclusion or make my statement on it. What do you think of Carmela? You bodied her only a couple of years ago. What do you think of her? The same thing that I thought of her uh back then is is she um and this is this was what I warned people against in 2019 is she is incapable and unfit to to be president and commander-in-chief. She would be very dangerous in that position. Not only because she will be easily manipulated and controlled by uh those unelected powers that be that we talked about, but also as we discussed would immediately feel like she needs to exert and show strength and that that would come at an incredibly high cost to uh our men and women, my brothers and sisters in uniform, uh to our country and quite frankly to the world, especially given and the the situation that we're facing today where you know we're on the brink of war with Russia and China, Iran, North Korea just to name a few. Oh, and also by the way, we are closer to the brink of nuclear war now than ever before. Certainly in our lifetimes. Uh and so in any one of these examples, it takes one spark uh for any one of these situations uh to to quite literally blow up. Um she she has demonstrated through her time as vice president, through her time as US senator, through her time as the attorney general in California, district attorney of of San Francisco, in every opportunity, every position that she held uh where she had the opportunity to put the interests of the people she was supposed to be serving first, uh she put her own political interests first and uh and clearly does not believe in the Constitution and fundamental freedom. So, she's not alone in this obviously. Uh but she is now not officially but will be very soon the Democratic nominee for president. And we as voters should not allow the political like food fight that's going to go on to get in the way of of actually knowing the facts of of her record and her failed record and how dangerous she would be in that position. Is she smart? I I would not say so. I don't know if smart's the right word. intelligent? No, she is a very calculating person uh and so perhaps smart in her calculations that have gotten her to this point. If there is a big problem with the potential of Carla being the Democratic nominee, you can wave a wand, you could be God. Who would you want to see instead? Well, I ran for president on the Democratic ticket. And who would you put as a VP? Um I don't in and and I'm speaking in today's context. I don't know. Uh and and here's why. The Democratic Party is vastly different even today than it was four years ago. Vastly different four years from 8 years and so on. But the fact that not a single Democrat in the House of Representatives or the US Senate, not a single one has had the courage to stand up and call out the insanity of of um this whole, you know, boys can be girls if they say they're girls. Not a single one. Not a single one stood up against Joe Biden's uh and and his administration's complete destruction of Title Nine, which is the law that says women and girls should have a level playing field in education and sports with boys and men. Period. It's been in place over 50 years. Something Democrats celebrated for decades. Completely obliterated now to the point where you have sports girls sports teams. Half of them are biological boys. in high school, in middle school, not a single one Democrat leader in the House or Senate in Washington DC has had the courage to stand up and say, "This is wrong and you're hurting women and girls by doing this." So, it's hard for me to pick someone up out of those who exist in the country. I can't think of a Democrat governor of a state that's had the courage to stand up and say this. Uh so I I don't have an answer for you because we are at a time where uh I I don't I personally don't think that every one of them really believes that this is the right thing to do. Um they're sufficiently cowardly to go along with it. Exactly. And so what kind of leadership is what kind of leadership is that? It's not. It's the opposite. their followers and and worse yet care care more about their political positioning that they're that they're willing to um remain silent in something that is like just the most fundamentally objectively true thing that exists. Yeah, that is not exactly a glowing comment on the squad that you've got to pick from. No, the literal squad and the broader squad. Correct. That is both that is correct. What are you going to do over the next foreseeable future? What have you have you got plans? What are you What are you thinking of working on? Um, I I want to be in a position of impact. You know, that that's always been I I've never seen my involvement with politics as a as a quote unquote career. And you know, my I chose very early on in life to ch to to follow a path of service. and it's taken me both into politics and out of politics at different times. Um, I don't know exactly I don't know exactly what's next. For these next few months, I'm going to continue try to be a voice of truth and facts and common sense and and help inspire hopefully inspire more people to recognize the power that we have through our own votes to help course correct in our country reset and and get us back on track. uh rooted in those foundational principles of our of our of our country's founding. What happens beyond I I don't exactly know. Uh but I will continue to try to find those places where I feel I can best be of service and make that maximum impact. Heck yeah. Let's bring this one home. Tulsy, I really appreciate you. Thank you. Great to finally meet you. And you. Thank you very much for tuning in. If you enjoyed that episode, you will love my fulllength conversation with the one and only Douglas Murray, which is available just there. Go on.