Video summary
Dr. John Delony addresses the complex dilemma of individuals who intellectually know they should leave a relationship but lack the courage to act, framing the issue through both practical and relational lenses. He highlights that while women often face significant economic consequences like plummeting net worth upon divorce due to alimony structures, men must also confront their own financial realities when considering separation. Beyond the math problem of assets and liabilities, Delony emphasizes that strong emotions are protective signals from the body indicating a need for action rather than rational thought. He advises seeking trusted friends or mentors who can act as "eyes in the sky" to provide an objective perspective, noting how often people underestimate their own capacity to handle change until they hear it confirmed by someone else. The discussion delves into the psychological barriers preventing breakup decisions, specifically the fear of uncertainty rather than loss itself. Drawing on concepts from Jud Brewer regarding anxiety and Rick Hansen's *Hardwiring Happiness*, Delony suggests that wisdom involves choosing a greater happiness over a lesser one, even if change feels risky in the moment. He explains that humans possess an inherent need for both exploration (novelty) and security; staying in a stagnant relationship often stems from a high pain tolerance developed through hard work and delayed gratification in other areas of life like fitness or business. However, he argues that this same resilience can lead to enduring emotional deprivation in relationships where one simply "sticks it out," mistakenly believing they will eventually find meaning without addressing the current unhappiness directly. Delony challenges the binary choice between leaving a relationship or suffering in silence, asserting that agency is often stripped away by cultural disempowerment but can be reclaimed through conscious decision-making. He shares a personal anecdote about his own marriage where he and his wife realized they had mutually chosen misery, yet instead of accepting it as inevitable fate, they chose to actively select something different rather than remaining stuck in the same cycle. This concept extends to parenting dynamics, illustrating that when children become emotionally immature or run away during conflicts, parents must resist the urge to withdraw immediately. Instead, following advice from Arthur Brooks about leaning in at moments of greatest desire to pull away, he describes a moment where his daughter threw a tantrum and walked off; by stopping her exit and physically engaging with her until she calmed down, he demonstrated that love persists even when behavior is difficult. Ultimately, the core message encourages listeners to recognize their own flexibility and ability to handle change based on past successes in other domains of life. Delony points out that while people often assume change will only make things worse, history shows that almost all changes have ultimately improved situations if one can navigate them with faith in their adaptability. He warns against the trap where high pain tolerance leads to accepting a relationship that no longer serves an individual's well-being just because they are used to "putting their nose against the grindstone." The conclusion is clear: suffering silently does not lead to congratulations on deathbeds, and true strength lies in having the bravery to step out of arrangements that do not work while maintaining faith that one can build a new life filled with fun, enjoyment, and genuine fulfillment.
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If somebody feels convinced that they
should leave a relationship, but they're
struggling to accumulate the bravery to
be able to sort of pull the pin, maybe
they've got close a few times and
they've bailed out.
Uh, what would you say to sort of
motivate that person who deep down knows
that it's the right thing to do, but as
of yet just the courage kind of hasn't
come to them? Yeah, that's a great
question. I think uh I think there's a
practical aspect to this and then I
think there's a relational aspect to
this. If um there's a very real um the
data is pretty clear that you know more
women file for divorce but women's net
worth often plummets, right? And so
there's a very real economic
consequence. So if you're married to
somebody, if you're living with somebody
and you know I got to get out of this
thing, there's a very real math problem
you have to solve. And that's
unfortunate and that's scary and the
social services are pretty tough. But
there's a very real question. Suppose
that the equivalent would be the same
for men but in reverse paying alimony.
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um and so I
think there's a there's a math problem
there. Not to say stay together for the
math, right? That's I haven't I haven't
seen that bumper sticker, but um there's
a very real reality to this. The other
side of it is I know for most of us when
emotions are a sign, especially strong
emotions are a sign that your body's
trying to protect you. And when your
body's trying to protect you, you're not
thinking. And so for me, it's been very
important to have a couple of men in my
life that I outsource some of these
things to. I'm going sit down with you,
make sure I'm seeing this thing clearly,
cuz here's what I'm feeling. And it's
been more than once in my life when I
sit down with a few of my old 30 plus
ride or die buddies and I'm like, she's
doing this and this and this and they're
like, "Have you looked in a mirror,
man?" And they're able to see something,
right? No warrior goes into battle
without eyes in the sky. And so I think
um I often are in our in
our lone ranger cowboy world we live in,
man. It's you got to do all this, but
I'll do this by yourself. And so I'm
constantly telling people, "Dude, go get
a cup of coffee with somebody and just
exhale." And then tell them what's going
on. And they may say, "Hey, there's a
common thing on my show. Someone will
call and be like, "My sex life screwed
up. We have only had sex twice last
year. It's a disaster. It's falling
apart." And then 10 minutes into the
conversation, it's like, "Well, we have
a 5-year-old, a three-year-old, a
one-year-old, and she's pregnant." I'm
like, "Bro, hang up the phone and call
me back. Like, you're all you'll have
survival sex. Y'all are figuring this
thing out. Like, you're not broke, and
it's okay, right?" Um, but that's just
you just need somebody to sit with you.
Um, but when it comes to courage and
bravery, I think at some point we have
to head into the discomfort. I mean,
that's all the that's all Jud Brewer
stuff on anxiety, right? You got to head
into it. The thing that you're scared
about and anxious about. Yeah. I think
um some of the questions I've I've asked
friends about when they've been on the
fence, unsure, scared about being alone,
about losing this attachment. You know,
one of the things is how much of your
life is thinking about this breakup
taking up? Like what other productive or
peaceful or mindful
thoughts is this taking the space of?
Yeah. How often are you not present at
dinner or not present at work
or you know trying to meditate or train
in the gym or do any of the things that
usually bring you joy and you're not
thinking about where you are and uh
that's one of my when someone says hey
should I break up with them I'm thinking
about this this I always say absolutely
you should break up with them and I just
watch and if they're if their shoulders
drop if their face drops that may be the
right move. Yeah. because they've got a
sense of relief. No, no, no. Yeah,
they've got a sense of relief from from
that being on the other side. They're
just asking you for permission. That's
right. They're just asking you for
permission. There's this great uh you
know Rick Hansen, he wrote hardwiring
happiness, dude. Unreal. Imagine CBT
meets uh dharma wisdom meets mindfulness
meets neuroscience. It's a hardwiring
happiness by Rick Hansen. He's got a
phenomenal phenomenal uh podcast with
his son Forest Hansen. I think it's
called being well. And um he dropped
this quote that said uh wisdom is
choosing a greater happiness over a
lesser happiness. And I think you
know a lot of the time we assume
that change is only ever going to make
things worse. Even though when we look
back almost all changes have made things
better. But we don't fear change, we
fear loss. True. Yeah. But that's
uncertainty. We don't necessarily fear
loss. We fear uncertainty. Yes. Right.
Right. Because losing an abusive partner
isn't you're not fearing that. You're
fearing the uncertainty of what it would
be like to be without them. You know, we
have two needs as humans. We have an
exploration need and we have a security
need. Right. That's their intention,
right? Correct. Novelty. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh uh novelty,
safety. You need to go out and get some
berries. You need to go to a new bush
because this one's empty. But also
there's a risk of going there because
there might be a line behind it. It
might kill you. Um I think one of the
things that's really useful is to try
and have faith that you are the sort of
person who can handle change well. Like
just to think about that as an ideal
like it makes
a world inside of your mind where you
don't need to fear things adjusting
because change has happened in the past
and you seem to deal with it quite well.
Then change is going to happen in the
future. You're probably going to deal
with that. So why not this one? Like why
not back yourself to be able to be the
sort of person who can deal with change
well? Like you've got this, you're
flexible and you're okay in different
situations. And yeah, I you know
unfortunately a lot of the people who
have the opportunity to choose partners
to to um not just have to settle for the
first thing that happens to you know
have different life opportunities to
move away from their town. They are
probably quite hard workers. And the
problem with being a hard worker is that
you have to have a pain tolerance. And
if your pain tolerance is quite high,
that means that your pain tolerance for
emotional deprivation is quite high,
which means that you'll stick about in a
relationship that isn't serving you for
a very, very long time. Just keep going
and going and going and going. Mhm. Cuz
that's what we do. Yeah. You're used to
putting your nose against the grindstone
and things being tough. Yeah. And coming
out the other side and going, I wasn't
that happy, but [ __ ] I got through it.
Yeah. Yeah, I got that. Because the in
the past in other areas of life in the
gym or in diet or in building your
meditation habit or in business or in
skill acquisition, you have learned to
associate delayed gratification. You're
basically marshmallow testing your way
through through life over and over
again. And you go, well, look, there's
certain things that you just kind of
need to embrace the suck. Yes. And on
the other side of which there will be
maybe not happiness, but meaning and
fulfillment and well-being. And perhaps
downstream from that, you get some like
fun and enjoyment and happiness and blah
blah, but probably not in your
relationship, right? I don't think
anybody's going to congratulate you on
your deathbed for saying he suffered in
silence.
You know what I mean? Yeah. Except that
I don't know that I mean it takes two to
tango, right? But I think that
makes suffering the the inevitable
outcome. And I I remember when my wife
and I were sitting across the table, uh
like the message I sent to her because
we weren't speaking was no no no crying,
no fighting, no screaming. And this was
self-directed. I'm the emotional one. Um
we got to we got to say, are we still
doing this? This is it. Like cuz the
marriage we've had up to now is over.
Like are we going to keep doing this?
And but I remember that conversation
when we both came to the realization we
have both mutually chosen a miserable
marriage. M and the beauty is we can
choose a not miserable
one and I think that agency of choice
has been taken away by a culture of
disempowerment. So I think the idea of
like it's either bail or suffer and
silence I think that's a that is I don't
think it's that binary. M I think you
can also both be like, "Dude, we chose
suck and I chose I I did something."
Whoever you may be, I I stepped out on
the marriage. I I gambled a bunch of
money away. Like I did an extra bad
thing if you want to frame it like that.
We can both choose something different.
And that to me is a it's not on the
table anymore. But if you look past the
same thing happens relationally. those
who stick it out and they choose
something different, choose something
magnanimous. Um, which is very un Romeo
and Juliet, right? You're supposed to
just be starcross lovers. It's stupid.
It's nonsense. You choose it and you
keep choosing it and you keep choosing
it. Man, you see people who've been
through hell and they're on the other
side. That's the goofy guys that have
real short shorts on and no business
wearing that short of shorts at the
beach and they don't care. Right. Cuz
that cuz she loves them. Yeah. Right.
And it's it's a different kind of it's a
it's a different kind of depth to that
love. I've heard you say before about
how the time I think this was your
conversation with Arthur Brooks. Uh the
time when you want to pull away the most
is the time when you're supposed to lean
in. I did it last night with my
daughter. She n years old
man. She's got a supernatural ability.
She knows where every single hidden
button buttons I didn't even know I had.
She just knows.
and she screaming and hollering and
yelling and throwing her nine-year-old
stuff and started to walk away and I
literally went downstairs to head out
the door with the dog to go for a walk
and I
stopped. This is that moment. That's
when Arthur Brooks is ringing in my head
and you turn around, you walk back in
and I went and climbed into bed with her
and my wife's reading a book and I just
climbed. She shoves me out of the way. I
move
and and then within 30 seconds you hear
her breathing different and then she
reaches over and grabs your hand. And
that's what dads do. Emotionally
immature children run off. Dads go right
through it. Oh, yeah. You had a child on
child war about to begin. I It's my
seven-year-old bro,
right? Dude, was it who? Uh, it may have
been it may have been Salphano that I
called recently and was like, "Hey, I'm
having a disagreement with my
14-year-old." And he just started
dialing laughing. He goes, "I was going
to stop you right there." And I was
like, "What am I what am I doing?" And I
was like, "I'll call." No, it was Lane
Norton. I called him. I was like, "Hey,
I'm arguing with my 14-year-old." He
goes, "How about I just stop you right
there?" And I was like, "What do I do?"
Right. I use this for a living. It
happens. Yeah. Right. That's [ __ ]
funny. And then you uh roll it off and
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tuning in. If you enjoyed that clip with
John, you will love the full length
episode.
right here.
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