"You Have No Moral Right To Run This" - Famous Journalist To Alex O'Connor

Duration: 9:00 1977 transcript words EN summary

Video summary

In this podcast episode, host Alex O'Connor interviews renowned journalist Peter Hitchens on three specific subjects: drug decriminalization, religion, and monarchy. Although Hitchens initially expressed reservations about running the interview due to his stance against drug decriminalization—a topic he felt was propaganda for him—O'Connor managed to secure a conversation that lasted approximately an hour and a half before time ran out. The discussion began with O'Connor noting that while Hitchens dismissed the concept of monarchy as boring, it served merely as a gateway to explore the more contentious issues regarding drugs and faith. Despite initial friction where Hitchens warned he had no moral right for the content to be published if his views were misrepresented or ignored, the dialogue proceeded until Hitchens eventually signaled his desire to end the recording early. A significant portion of the disagreement centered on O'Connor's arguments concerning cannabis decriminalization versus alcohol and tobacco regulation. When Hitchens argued that legalizing drugs would inevitably lead to increased usage among children, O'Connor countered by pointing out the success of education campaigns in reducing youth smoking despite cigarettes remaining legally accessible for adults. He suggested a similar approach could be applied to cannabis, though he noted that this point was not fully explored because Hitchens fell into what O'Connor describes as an "I know this one" attitude. This rhetorical stance involves dismissing new arguments based on familiarity rather than engaging with the specific logic presented, effectively shutting down further debate by relying on perceived past knowledge or established narratives about alcohol and smoking risks. The interpersonal dynamic of the interview took a notable turn when Hitchens began to visibly disengage from the conversation well before its scheduled conclusion. At around forty minutes into what was intended as a ninety-minute session, O'Connor observed that they had been circling too long on drug-related topics without reaching new ground. As the recording continued, Hitchens grew increasingly agitated, eventually standing at the door for seventeen minutes while explicitly stating his personal dislike for O'Connor and his refusal to want another interview with him. This behavior was described by the host as a form of "reverse ageism," where an older figure attempts to discredit or dismiss a younger interviewer's perspective simply because they are different, ultimately turning what should have been a philosophical exchange into a display of hostility that left Hitchens looking like he wanted a fight but refused to admit it. Following the recording, O'Connor received mixed feedback from listeners and friends regarding how to handle the situation. While some criticized the interview for being repetitive or boring—attributing these flaws directly to Hitchens's refusal to engage with counter-arguments rather than any fault of the host—the majority supported publishing the episode regardless of its controversial nature. The transcript highlights O'Connor's frustration that he was tricked into a conversation about drugs, which had been his intention all along given their shared interests in religion and monarchy, yet found himself unable to get Hitchens to read or acknowledge his book on decriminalization even after discussing it at length. The episode concludes with O'Connor reflecting on the nature of AI interactions as a humorous comparison to the human friction experienced during the interview; he notes that while he could easily convince an artificial intelligence like ChatGPT of anything, including non-existence of God or vice versa, machines do not possess personal animosity toward their interlocutors. He jokes about whether such entities would inherit eternal life in heaven and uses this contrast to emphasize how unusual it is for a human guest to storm out mid-interview with such vitriol. Ultimately, the decision rests on O'Connor's judgment that he did nothing wrong during the discussion, leaving the final assessment of the interview's quality and ethics up to the discretion of the audience who can choose whether to view or listen to the full episode based on their own perspectives.

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how are you feeling in the aftermath of Peter Hitchens validated Vindicated uh I must say that I was a little bit I was in two minds about uploading that that interview he does there was a bit of a a mixture of opinion coming from him he wasn't speaking entirely clearly must have been something on his mind he said as he's getting up to walk out I don't think you should run this and I'm thinking look if if if my guest tells me that they don't want to run an interview for any reason it could be because they've had a bad hair day then I'll respect that and so I thought damn am I really going to have to you know be the big a man here and just not post this at all but then he kept saying oh run it if you like I can't stop you from running it I just don't think you have any moral right to run it and I asked him why and he said it was because I'm a propagandist for drug decriminalization a subject which prior to that by the way I'd spoken about once ever and that I'd intentionally tricked him to appear on my podcast in order that I might fool him into a conversation about drugs now before the podcast started I said Mr Hitchens you have uh about three subject areas that we both talk about where I think there's a bit of crossover that you've either spoken about or indeed written books about and those are the decriminalization of drugs I also mentioned this in my email the existence of God or religion I should say God and religion is the topic and uh the third was monarchy at this point he says well you know monarchy is a bit boring okay notice listener that he did not take this opportunity to tell me that he thought that drugs were a bit boring and we rather not really talk about drugs at all or for too long okay fine so I'm thinking I agree with you the monarchy is incredibly boring in fact that's the entirety of my point about the monarchy is that it's essentially just boring more than anything else so let's just do the other two so I say it will run for about an hour ideally he says that's good you know and I say but you know if the conversation flows it can be an hour and a half it could be 2 hours and okay he says well look you know I say sometimes they can be 3 hours long he says well 3 hours might be a bit long but we'll see how we do something in about an hour and a half an hour and a half on what was now in my view two subjects so at about 40 minutes into this potentially 90-minute podcast on the same topic when he told me that we've been going around for too long on said topic I was a little bit bemused but I did think to myself maybe I've done something wrong here maybe I have upset him in a way that obviously was not intentional you know I wasn't trying to bring this out of him although you know it does do quite well for the channel it's not like it's something I would do intentionally so I did think to myself well maybe I've done something so I listened back and I sent it to some friends including you and thank you for listening to it and and saying that like most people just said you have to run this he's he's been completely unreasonable and so there have been criticisms people have said well you know what it was a bit boring or yeah it was going around in circles I submit that that was his fault by the way uh because he does this thing which I've noticed in a lot of philosophical and political discussion uh which is the sort of I know this one attitude when you do a lot of interviews I find that you have a sort of I know this one and so they answer the question that they heard not the answer that was asked exactly and and it and it happens especially when it's it's easy enough to make that mistake if you're not listening carefully so he was talking about uh the well I I asked him about the decriminalization of of of cannabis and he says that well this will essentially mean that a lot of more children will be smoking it he he had this contention that children would end up smoking cannabis and I thought to myself well okay I can understand that concern of course but I think the tobacco industry has suffered quite a blow in still being perfectly legal to buy as an adult but but kids just aren't smoking cigarettes anymore it's just not a thing that's really done why is that in other words we've had quite a successful education campaign whereby it's not popular for kids to smoke anymore and yet it's still perfectly legal can't we have a similar approach to cannabis potentially by the way not a good view potentially a perfectly rebuttable view I'm not sure but I wouldn't know because I didn't get a rebuttal to that view instead I just heard you know all you can do is is do the whole which by the way is a genuinely quite tired line in this debate the whole oh what about smoking or indeed another point where I brought up alcohol well all you can say is what about alcohol what about smoking and that's not what I was doing at least I contend that's not what I was doing because that's what he heard he goes oh I know this one I've heard this before yeah and and you haven't read my book it didn't seem to occur to him that say it is possible Mr Hitchens to read your book and yet still after having done so disagree with you yeah it's sometimes when you hear people speak especially guys that are a little bit older I think there is a there is kind of like reverse agism that goes on which is who is this sort of young whipper snapper person who I maybe have heard of or haven't heard of much and um almost like a Blas kind of discrediting of the thing it's like this is and this is your show but it's my show so to speak and um yeah it was like I thought his attitude was pompous and unlikable and uh my favorite part was when he threw the pillow at the microphone throwing the pillow down and and he kept sort of walking back over he says he says you know I I don't want you to post this and yet obsessed with no opinion about you before I've decided that I absolutely do not like you it was it was uh it was something and a lot of people messaged me saying hey like uh I'm so sorry that happened like you know you're doing all right and I'm thinking sorry sorry I thought there's no way that this is happening I mean when it looked like he was about to get up I thought surely not but then internally I'm thinking like go on then do it do it because I don't think I've done anything wrong here it was the podcasting equivalent of come on mate have a go yeah but you know you know the weirdest thing was because he he sort of gets up to go and he walks out and he stands at the door and he's and it's I wish you kind of could have seen his body language it was it was very there's one point where you can see it when he walks back into shot and he says something and then after he said it he just sort of stands there looking at me as if to say like what have you got a girl and so he' keep going like I'm going to go now I'm going I'm going to I'm going and waiting this the podcast playing hard to get equivalent it must have been something like that yeah it was like it was like the person who wants the fight but wants to look like they didn't initiate the fight and I don't think it's my fault I'll leave it up to the to the Judgment of The Listener or the viewer I don't think it's my fault that he spent 17 minutes 17 count them 17 entire minutes stood at the door telling me how much he personally dislikes me telling me how much he doesn't want to see me again I've I've wanted to do that for as long as I've known you so well we'll see how we do yeah today uh you're going to try and convince me of the existence of God today you managed to convince chat GPT that's right which means does it mean that I'm smart than chat GPT if you convince me more quickly or more slowly or not at all I don't know um I I I do know that it it means that well well chat gbt if it's going to inherit eternal life I I sort of wonder how that's going to work in heaven I I don't know I mean I I don't know this recursive nightmare for everyone as they walk around and they've got the chat GPT logo floating about yeah the interesting thing about chat GPT is that you you sort of you can you can essentially convince it of anything and so I wasn't quite sure if it was even a very good video idea because I'm sure I could just as easily convince it that God doesn't exist well at least you can be thankful that it wasn't able to say it had no opinion of you before but it absolutely does not like you and then get up and walk out quite right some people in the comments did say that at least you know chat GPT is stuck around until the end that would be a task in fact that's another video idea I got chat gbd to storm out of an interview even I probably couldn't do that in other news this episode is brought to you by element element is a tasty electrolyte drink mix with everything that you need and nothing that you don't don't it's a healthy alternative to sugary electrolyte drinks and it is the best way 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