World Arts West Legacy Artists Panel Discussion

Hello everyone. Welcome to the Caret Auditorium. I'm Michelle Jeffers. I work with San Francisco Public Library and I'm so happy you decided to spend your afternoon with us. So, thank you. Um, I'm delighted that you're here. We've got a really special program, Legac Legacy Artist Dialogue with World Arts West that's building toward that organization's 50th anniversary. But before we begin, let me start with a land acknowledgement here for San Francisco. We recognize that the land the library is on, the land of San Francisco, is the unseated ancestral homeland of the Ramacho Shalon people. Today, we benefit from living and working on their traditional land, and we choose to affir step step back and affirm that they have the sovereign rights to this land. We also wish to pay our respect to the ancestors, elders, and relatives of this community. Again, I have the great honor today to welcome World Arts West to this stage at the Caret Auditorium. We are a legacy organization and they are very much a legacy organization. Founded in 1978, they are a nationally recognized leader in advocating for cultural arts communities serving the largest multicultural dance network in the United States. This wraparound cultural service provide based in San Francisco serves as a hub for comprehensive capacity building artist services. World Arts West pioneered the very first city sponsored multicultural dance festival in the USA and now in its 48th year they continue this legacy of presenting a vital platform for cultural artists to build recognition visibility and intersectional solidarity. I'm going to introduce today Andrea Spearman who is the program and marketing manager of World Arts West. Welcome Andrea. Welcome everybody. As she said, my name is Andrea Spearman, World Arts West program and marketing manager and also the festival manager today. I'm so glad that you are all here for this historic event. And I'm also going to ask for those who are in the back if you could just come a little closer, friends. We won't bite. Come on a little bit closer. We want to be close to each other, especially when we take our pictures later. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate it. So, today we pride oursself on almost 50 years of presenting and uplifting dance and music from around the globe. Ours is a culture of diversity, belonging, and care. Today we thank some of our funders including California Arts Council, Campbell Foundation, Flashhacker Foundation, Grants for the Arts, the Kenneth Rainan Foundation, San Francisco Arts Commission, San Francisco Foundation, Zelerbach Family Foundation, among many other organizational and individual donors like you. Read our program book to see the full list. Today we sit down with artists who have gone the distance to present and sustain global traditions right here in the Bay Area. Before we begin, World Arts West board chair Kia Malonga will now come with a libation. Give him a hand as he comes. >> Good afternoon everyone. Can you hear me? >> How you guys doing? >> Great. Thank you so much for being here, for coming today. Uh before we get started, it's always important in many of our cultures to just take a moment to reflect on us who are currently in the land of the living and um to just think about and perhaps call in some of the ancestors for those who have passed on. They still serve as guardian angels, if you will. And so making sure that connection is always strong in all that we do regardless if you're in the run of your week or working or showing up to events uh that guidance u from many of the cultures that you uh will see reflected here on the stage and perhaps where you guys come from is something important. Uh so for this I will introduce to you one instrument that I learned how to play with my father. Malonga Kascalord. This instrument is called a uh kisi. Can you say kisansi? >> A little louder. Kissansi. >> This instrument is also called limbbe. Can you say limbbe? One more time. Lembbe. >> This instrument is also called kimba. Can you say kimba? >> The last name I'll give you and I'm going to do a test after this. So we just mira. Can you say mira? >> So in congalles culture this is played many times before we meet at mongi. Mongi is a traditional meeting place for the community often times where oral stories are shared like you'll witness today. So it's very important for you to be hearing these sounds these melodies because they not only call your attention. They call the attention to Baba. How you doing? I see you babe. You're looking good. I see you baba. They not only call the attention for those who are with us now, but also to the ancestors. So take a moment. We're not going to call them out, but for people who have who are special to you, parents, teachers, mentors, think about them. call them into this space to be part of the conversation because sometimes their communication comes with you through dreams, through signs, through nature and we always want to be open to still receiving that guidance. Yes. Yes. So, as I welcome you guys to Dumbongi, as I welcome your ancestors to Dumbongi, you're in for a very special treat today. many years of experience, many beautiful cultures, and a conversation amongst giants. That doesn't happen very often. Yes, >> it's me. I'm back again. Hi. >> Wasn't that wonderful? Did you all feel that in your spirit? Yes. And again, for our friends in the back, come closer. Come closer. We're not gonna bite. I promise. We just want you to be able to see things up close. Yes. >> Thank you so much to our board chair, Kiazi Malanga. He also carries legend and legacy within him from his father, Malanga Cascal Lord. >> That's right. >> Yes. To continue our program, I'm bringing to the stage our World Arts West CEO, Dr. Anne Wong, a seasoned arts executive, advocacy leader, and specialist in capacity building and resource equity for culturally specific communities. Please give her a hand. Thank you, Andrea. So great to see you all here. All right. So many of you have been asking what's happening with War Arts West. Yes, I'm here to tell you today what is happening with War Arts West, our history. We turned 48 this year and also the transformative equity journey that we've been undergoing under my leadership in transforming a legacy organization to support cultural artists through economic empowerment and advocacy. We're Art West. We were founded in 1978 and we're nationally recognized leader in advocating for cultural artists. We do dance presentations. We have a robust artist service program and advocacy. First four decades we were primarily a presenter. We had a large-scale annual festival and for 15 years we had an arts education program called people like me for K through six. For 10 years we also had a rotunda dance series monthly performances at San Francisco City Hall. 2019 I was appointed the executive director first person of color and first festival cultural artist to lead this organization. Some of you might remember our organ organization was in dire straits, six figure debt, near bankruptcy, no money to pay the festival artists and a financial model, a festival that was not sustainable. Unfortunately, I had to lay off most of the staff and we had to move out of our office at Fort Mason after 40 years. And of course, the pandemic was just right around the corner. left 2019 beautiful festival at Zelerbach. On the right was our emergency evacuation out of the Fort Mason office. That's actually my vacuum cleaner from home. All right. Uh as we enter the pandemic, we hunkered down and did community listening, deep dive in community listening and really prioritize financial sustainability as the organization's number one priority. Through that journey, we began to evolve the organization through the uh through the lens that I just spoke about first radical imagination to lift the cultural artist constituency into the organization leadership. Starting with myself, 2020 we had two staff members. Now we have a team of 15 board and staff members, majority cultural artists from our community. Why is this important? So our community can be deeply embedded in the organization's every staff conversation, board meeting, program planning, strategic plan, fundraising design, so our community every single day can be inside our our organization to make sure we're leading the organization in the right direction to serve them. This has been the key of our success. Secondly, we began to really see what's happening in our community and really expanded our definition of culture. We continue to present cultural presentations that are very traditional, but also make sure that we are presenting work expansively to show what is actually happening with cultural evolution in our community. Number three, we began to build and grow rapidly an artist service program that it that focuses on economic empowerment for cultural artists. That's what they really wanted us to do. Uh currently we have three artist service programs. We're in year five of grants accelerator program annual cohort of cultural artists that learns how to access grants, manage their grants, create great great samples and uh create really great budgets, how to engage funders. Um this year we're becoming a grant maker for the very first time. Thank you Wallace Foundation for your support. We're in the middle of giving away the first half of a million dollars to cultural artists and special artist commission does fundraising, marketing and production support for largecale groundbreaking program. In totality between 2021 and 2027, we're shephering $3 million into the hands of cultural artists. Yes, it is equivalent about 40 years of festival performance fees. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And that six figure debt we had in 2019, happy to report in 2024, we completely eliminated that six figure debt. We've ended the last seven years, seven years of consecutive surpluses. So really, really proud of our team for doing this work. Currently, we have four programs. We're continuing to present the annual festival and other community performances including being at Asian Art Museum, Bay Area Dance Week, and Sundays at the Prescidio. Sunday, um, sorry, September 6, we'll be back at the Prescidio for our annual festival again. Free. Come and join us. Secondly, this is the artist service program I was talking about. I want to highlight couple of examples. Uh, on the left is Parangal. Through support of our our special artist commission program, they were able to present their 15th anniversary show, paying every single one of their 50 performing artists, bringing culture bears from the Philippines and write a book, a very very important um indigenous cultural heritage work. On the right, we're very very proud of this year's grants accelerator uh program. And um in the middle on the the the top we have Caroli Flamingco who is a fifth generation flamco artist dating all the way back to 1895. We have Sam Cortez over here upper left who leads a five decade long Mexican uh dance company based in San Jose. So continuing the heritage work and uh down the um lower row in the black we have Dr. Fereima Fenji her mother and her grandmother were in the national dance company of Iran and uh let's not forget right in the middle Mui Malanga uh of course Kiati's sister a co-director of Fuadia Congo and many of us know Malanga Kascalore so through the grants accelerate program we're supporting and continuing that legacy so very very proud of that work here uh program number three archiving and documentation. We have a very large collection of photos and videos dating all the way back to 1978, steadily working on digitizing and organizing and sharing um this large collection of really the true multicultural dance history of Bay Area, California, and the United States. And we need your help. So, if you want to help out with this project, make sure our history is told um told accurately. Come and talk to our staff in the lobby. Last, uh we're steadily doing more and more advocacy. None of the programs can happen um unless we are doing advocacy. We're here. We are in Washington DC fighting for funding for National Endowment for the Arts. Um in the middle, we're in Sacramento meeting with legislator to fight for more money for California Arts Council. on the right partnering with Assembly Member Matt Haney last year. Um, successfully fought for $11 million for performing arts this year. Successfully fought for $12 million for performing arts and that money is going to be coming out soon. Um, and then we'll have a lot more to report on advocacy very very soon. All right. In two years, we're going to be turning 50 50th anniversary. Our three themes are legacy, empowerment and belonging. Uh starting today we are celebrating our legacy legacy of our organization and legacy of our community uh through our five speakers today. Empowerment continuing to build an artist center artist empowered organization. belonging, making sure our organizations, all of our stakeholders for the last 50 years feel sense of home in our organization and together we can build Arts West for the next 50 years and beyond. Any questions, come and talk to me in the lobby, email me, and um we really want to hear from you. Thank you so much, everyone. Here I am again. All right. Uh so before we bring on the panelists, we I want to introduce the co-odderator of this panel, our board member, newest board member, Sam Cortez of Los Dote San Jose. Yes, Sam Cortez is a Mexican dance artist, arts advocate, researcher, festival director, and community leader whose work centers on the preservation, teaching, and continual evolution of Mexican folklorico in the United States. Throughout his career, Cortez has worked with more than 100 dance companies across the United States, contributing as a choreographer, educated, mentor, adjudicator, and cultural advocate. His work includes national and international touring, cultural exchanges, artistic collaborations, and long-term advocacy for culturally rooted arts access. Let's welcome to the stage Samuel Cortez. Hello everyone. Thank you for that wonderful introduction and it's a pleasure for me to be here. U today is not meant to be a formal interview. We are not going to try to tell the complete life story of each of our legacy artists. Those stories are much bigger than what we could possibly fit in one afternoon. Instead, we want to uh feel like a conversation among the these elders and cultural leaders. We want to hear about the communities they encounter when they began, the challenges they faced, uh the ch the changes they witnessed, the lessons they learned and the impact they have seen through their work. And most importantly, we want we want them to talk to each other. So through the conversation, Ann and I may invite our panelists to respond to something another person has said, share a similar experience, or even tell us when their experience was completely different. There are no perfect answers today. We simply want to make space for memories, wisdom, different perspectives and conversation. Today we are honored to bring together four four cultural leaders whose work has shaped our communities in powerful ways. Each of them carries a unique story but this conversation is about what their journeys reveal together, what they witness, what they built, what they learn and what they hope future generations will continue. This is a conversation with where we are sitting at the feet of our elders. So let's welcome them. First we have Mama Naomi Duv is a distinguished cultural leader and master artist whose five decade career has profoundly shaped the preservation advancement of African and African dias diaspora performing arts in the United States as artistic of General Kora West African dance company and co-founder of collage de couture African the Bay Area's longest running African diaspora dance festival. She has built enduring institutions that serve as pillars of cultural institution, artistic excellence and community empowerment. >> So many years of leadership, community building and cultural preservation. Let's welcome also Matili Kumar. Maiti Kumar performed extensively in India before moving to the US and founded Abinaya Dance Company of San Jose in 1980. Her artistic ability and choreography have been recognized through several grants from the National Endowment for the Arts and from state and city agencies. Kumar has toured with the company to India and other parts of the US and has taught Indian dance at Stanford University, San Jose State University and University of California, Santa Cruz. Since 1986, the company has staged over 50 original dance productions, collaborated with Japanese tao drummers, and a balin balin game ensemble. So, let's celebrate, Miss. >> All right. Next, we have Miss Deborah Vaughn. Mr. Bravant is a nationally recognized choreographer, educator, cultural scholar, and arts leader whose career spans more than five decades of artistic innovation, community engagement, and cultural preservation. As co-founder, artistic director, and principal choreographer of Dimensions Dance Theater, founded in Oakland, California in 1972. Yes. by Miss Von has dedicated her life's work to exploring, preserving, and advancing the artistic traditions of Africa and African diaspora through contemporary performances. >> Now, we're going to continue with two wonderful people that are considered my friends, Roy and PJ Hiabayashi. Let's hear for them. Co-founders and artistic director Emerity of San Jose Tao celebrate over 53 years of playing Tao. Roy and PJ perform, compose, and conduct workshops internationally for their years of community building, expanding the art form from Tao through San Jose. The National End for the Arts awarded them the National Heritage Fellowship in 2011. Congratulations. Yes, let's hear from them. This is the national highest honor in the falcon traditional arts. Roy and PJ have also received the SV creates legacy laurate and the San Jose Arts Commission cornerstone of the arts award and were recognized in 2014 with the JAC Japanese American of the Benium award. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. Let's give a hand to all of the legacy artists here today. >> What an amazing panel. >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Shall we begin? >> All right. So really today's conversation is called sitting at the feet of our elders. So it's an informal conversation not a formal interview of the two of us with the elders and um so we'll begin by guys some guiding questions and at the end we will have a section where you know you can ask the elders some questions as well. So today we are celebrating the your legacies our community's legacies uh war arts west legacy. So perhaps we can go back to all the way the beginning 1970s 1980ish. Um love to hear a little bit about your journey. Is there a memory, a moment or experience that comes to mind when you think about why this work has been meaningful in your life? >> Mama Naomi, >> of course, I can start. Um, well, I mean, the first thing I want to say is that I came here as an exchange student, you know, to the United States. I've always been in California. And one of the reason is that I said, well, I love the California weather because it reminded me of home. Everywhere else was too cold, you know. So I mean with that said I would say memories that I can remember when I first came up to today is the choiry. You know, people say, "Well, can you teach us African dance?" Because I happened to come during the time period where, you know, things are really happening here in the 70s, you know, and I want to say dur there was the time too of the black arts movement. So I was um I was in high school and the high schools that I went to for speaking engagement there was always the conversation you know well teach us something African. What do you know? You know we want to learn African dance. And so I connected with, you know, the my memories were with a company that I b well I would say a group of ladies that I got with in Compton, California. And we began dancing >> and I mean we were at the shrine auditorium, you know, in these beautiful feathers outfit and people were just excited, you know, and I mean that carried on for quite a while. My journey took me through schools and it was always the the same the excitement you know of people learning you know African music, African dance and just being excited. So I want to say I came during the right time period in my journey and that memory has stayed with me till now. When I go places, I always reflect on back in the 70s and in the 80s the excitement that was also during the time of the Watts Tower and all of that. So I was in a perfect environment, you know, was able to be a part of the well meet Ron Coringa of the US organization doing they were doing work. I met people who were, you know, just into black arts and I mean it was a hunger and I felt proud to be a part of pro satisfying that hunger. So those are my fond memories even to today I carry it on. >> Thank you. Uh we've uh by the way um I've conducted individual art individual interviews with all of the legacy artists. All of the videos are now edited by Sam are all available on the war west YouTube page. So um check out the in-depth conversations there. Um Mameom I talked about sort of and the threat of social justice work from the very beginning. But the first question is also if any would like to share you know a meaningful memory from the especially from the beginning days. anyone. I guess I could get started. Um although um she was talking about the 70s and I'm going to talk about the 80s. So if anybody wants to talk about the 70s, we can grow chronologically. >> You're 70s, right? >> And your 70s. >> 60s. >> 60s. So she goes before me for sure. You know, actually uh Dimensions became official in 1972, but we really started in the 60s. >> Yeah. And um our um organization was inspired by the black arts movement and that was a time because I was at San Francisco State also when all of the action was happening about like you know black studies. Um, actually we wrote Miss Begford. I don't know if people know Ruth Beckford, but Ruth Beckford, Shirley Brown, and Ellenar Barnes. We wrote the curriculum for many of the colleges, um, Cal Berkeley, Berkeley High School, um, Tech. We wrote the curriculums for those schools because people were seeking knowledge at that time and I know that all of you know about uh the history of America and how people were not taught about the history and the greatness of it and the richness of the music, the dance even though like it has been you know distributed and appropriated, appreciated. Um, but that was um my inspiration in in the 60s that um this great knowledge that we had uh that could be shared and that inspired me to become interested in the diaspora. Uh, one of the teachers of Miss Beckford was Katherine Dunham. >> And so Dunham inspired Miss Beckford and Miss Beckford passed it on and that happened through Oakland Parks and Recreation which had, you know, free dance classes. My family was not able to afford to pay for classes, but that was passed on to me and it just gave me such um put me in touch with not just my identity, but cultural pride and um just the love of the culture and wanting it to uh wanting to share it because it made us feel like we belong, you So I guess I can stop there. You want me to keep talking? >> Before we go to the next speaker, you'll see you're here, right? The our legacy artists have been doing this work since the 1960s, but this is the very first time they're together on a panel. So we are here at a truly historic moment. So just want to FYI. All right. Does anybody else want to share next? >> Well, I'll jump in next. Um, similar to what's been said, we I I feel um really kind of the ideas or just um why I gotten involved doing San Jose Tao or doing Tao was really coming out of my growing up in the 60s. Also, I grew up in Oakland actually and uh left uh Oakland in 1969 to go to San Jose State and similar to what you were just saying, it was a period of a lot of um a lot of things happening on campuses and on our communities. Uh the anti-war movement was going on, the start of ethics studies programs are starting up, Asian-American studies programs, and I kind of jumped right into that. And so at that time um I feel getting starting Sal Tao in 1973. So we're a little bit of a younger baby to your group. But um really it was uh a lot of big big part of why I got involved with that was really to get the younger people involved at the San Jose Buddhist church with the with the temple using the tao the drum as an instrument to help draw them in. But it also became for me a really a calling instrument just to uh really help uh for me to realize that uh there was no musical identity for me as a Japanese American that was really reflected to me in that way. I grew up listening to a lot of R&B, jazz, just everything else that you would hear in the Bay Area and I I really didn't listen to a lot of Japanese folk music. So the tao became that voice for me and I realized it also became the calling instrument for our community to help bring people together. And so um with that I feel it's really been kind of an an important part of how we approach why we play Tao, who we play it for, and what we're trying to bring forward and share. It's uh it's become really an identity factor for me as far as being Japanese American and Asian-American. um in my life >> we kind of go together but kind of separate too. So definitely our experiences really come from the 70s and late 60s. Um being there at the right time. Um but it was that moment of social awareness uh cultural awareness. I never had an identity with my culture. I grew up in a predominantly white um neighborhood uh and school and I never was um I was bullied a lot. So I never felt like I was in my own skin, not knowing who I really was. And I have to say because of um the movement, Asian-American movement uh back in the 70s and anti-war movement, it really collective collectively brought students together around the Bay Area. And um one of the things that we came to terms with was like the war is not happening only over there. It's in our backyard. So we have to address how to really serve our community. And it was like with that um excitement of feeling empowered um and then also knowing Roy who had started uh the Tao at the Buddhist church. It was very very crude. When I say crude, we had we didn't have um the type of instruments that you would see nowadays. We had to make them out of oak wine barrels and um yeah, it it was quite a um humbling humbling art form. But I will say the one moment that really made me feel I needed to play Tao, not just for my enjoyment was when we as a group uh played for these Japanese senior citizens, most of them in their 80s and 90s and they saw us perform and at the very end uh we didn't really make that much good music at that time but It was the spirit that brought us together. And it was this woman that said, "This really touches my heart. I remember the Tao drum in Japan. I have not heard it since I was a youth. To see your generation, my grandchildren playing this drum really makes me proud. And she started to cry. And right in front of me, I'm I was crying, too. And I go, that's what I have to do for this reason. I am um I first have to say I'm deeply privileged and honored to be amongst uh pioneers before me who have gone through so much more than I did. Um uh you know I I came from I came in 1978 as a Rotary international cultural ambassador selected from my city to do both academics and as you know because I was also dancing professionally in India. So I came in in into a different completely different uh environment. My um I mean I got married here. Uh my husband was an assistant professor at Stanford University. So he was one of the techies in Silicon Valley. So my journey is different. But um in 1980 having have performed quite a lot in India when I came here I realized there was no opportunity to perform at all. Um and um so when a few of our friends wanted me to start teaching their children, I started in a very small way in the in a garage with six students. um you know not thinking that 45 years later that was in 1980 so 46 years later I didn't realize I was setting something that would be for you know that enduring for so long I never never even thought about it when I started those first initial classes and it was only for those initial immigrants to keep in touch with their cultural heritage that was the I guess everyone wanted to have an idea identity of their own and that was the the main reason why we why I even you know started uh teaching and um you know I realized that to propagate the art form that I had learned for over 20 years in India the only way I could do that was by imparting it to the to the next generation because I didn't have any opportunities to perform myself and my best memory was um is um um in 1986 6 when we we had a bunch of students whom I had already presented at at their solo as a you know they do a solo dance debut after learning for several years um all of them came together and we put together my first production and uh at that time the entire community came together so it wasn't just uh my husband was a musician as well so I had a a lot of uh connection with local musicians so bringing local musicians together to create new music to create lyrics. There were scholars amongst um who had already settled here who were able to help me with new lyrics and uh I put together a production and it was a it was really community coming together. Community coming together to build props to even manage a box office to uh manage lighting you know u I think my husband became a lighting expert and a sound expert from that first production days. Um so we the the community came together not just to learn the art form or uh to learn more about the art form but also um you knowh families became friends became formed friendships they started to become more um confident about themselves about uh you know in those early days nobody would go there to school and say I'm learning Indian dance it wasn't something they would be proud to tell anybody. body but slowly over time since that 1980 beginnings small beginnings I think over the years now they can go confidently to school and say I'm doing Indian classical dance and you know people will you know turn around and expect and respect them for it so um 1986 was a turning point for us because that was when we first performed at the San Francisco Ethnic Dance Festival somebody who had come to our show recommended me I had not heard of it at before um even though I was in the Bay Area but um so that was like a stepping stone for us to move on from the ethnic dance festival to getting more grants and more uh um you know mo getting grants from the California Arts Council from the Arts Council of Silicon Valley and then I first got my NEA choreographers fellowship in 1989. So it I think 1986 was stays in my memory as u a very key date when everything started to happen for me. So >> that's amazing. There's something that they don't say yet. I've been lucky enough to go through their archives and see some of their work and it's amazing. It's they put them together amazing performances, every single one of them. and listening to you sharing with us what it was behind it, what it means to you to create those pieces. It it's just wonderful. Um, speaking about the communities that you were when you began um how those communities look like, what are the need that the community had at that moment? Can one of you share with us? the the the uh need was that um I had to first educate my own community because uh everyone was uh almost like my husband who had never seen her dance performance before in India. Um he had grown up with music but he had not seen a dance at all. So he was clueless about Indian classical dance or any dance for that matter. So the community that I landed in had no idea what dance was. they just want, you know, they love the dress and they love the costume, but they had very limited knowledge of the mythology or the class, the rhythms or the music or whatever went along with the dance. So I had to first educate my own community about the value of this classical dance form that I had been trained in and and then um beyond that I had to it it was it came upon me and I think it came upon every teacher who was here um who has established themselves to maintain a quality of dance because you can do any kind of dancing. I mean you can start a school and teach anything and you know say okay this is classical Indian dance but to maintain a standard comes it becomes a responsibility of the individual teacher um and I I can recall Pandit Chet Das whose uh uh representative is here Charlotte teacher uh student is here um you know if you do not maintain those standards they can get diluted very soon so you know the community doesn't know anything but you have to kind of educate them first and then you have to you have your responsibility to maintain those artistic standards. So that's what I would like to say. >> Uh I would I mean I would say I guess uh Deborah and I could cross notes because I mean like she said she was in the Bay Area. I came after I was in Los Angeles. So when we talk about that time period, you know, I mean, I wouldn't go back to the 60s because I was still back home at that time, but I would start in the 70s, which she has already alluded to, is that it was that time people, you know, our people were craving something. It was that time of inspiration. And it was that time of, you know, being radical, being resistant because you go back, you know, to your ancestry and you understand the struggles, you know, that people had gone through to get where they were at that particular time. And there was a moment that many people feel a change needed to happen. And like Deborah is saying when they were writing the curriculum and when they were at San Francisco State and doing all this work you know and people were down in uh Los Angeles also you know there was this cross thing that was happening between the two ends really even though they were at polaro extreme right but there was a communication happening that actually was I want to say people were unaware of but it was a energy You know, so that Deborah can speak more to that what happened during that time period, how things changed and why we are where we are today because of that time period. Okay. Um, I think like during that time pe period, people were recognizing that there was a connection. Uh, and right now I'm speaking of the African diaspora when I grew up in uh, North Oakland. My family was from New Orleans and the people who lived next door, they were from New Orleans, but they had relatives that were coming from Cuba because it was during the time of the, you know, the revolution. And so I would hear their music. Another thing that helped me recognize the the connection was just my family. Uh New Orleans, you know, all of the the Caribbean influence, the jazz influence. And then one other uh person that was kind of key uh was a person by the name of Dolores Caillou. She would bring in people. I mean, that's how we met Milonga. She brought Malonga into San Francisco State and she brought what is his name? Leon Destin, you know, from Haiti. Um, there was and then we we knew that there was this connection, but like I don't know that was made me want to investigate more to put on stage because what was not happening on stage, we weren't not seeing ourselves on stage. It was primarily the ballet, symphony, opera. Those were the places where people went to see art. And so we would do these like, you know, small performances and stuff. And people became really, really interested. Going back to what Naomi said, people craved it. I mean, even though they recognized that it was there, it just made us want to deepen what we knew about ourselves. and like just present the entire picture of who we were uh as a people. So I mean that's what I can add you know >> was it different for you guys? >> Uh for us you know it's a little bit of combination of stories that you just heard and I kind of agree with my for us a lot of us early on was to um we would have to go out and educate people about who and what we were and what we were doing. Um I think in general people need to understand that Tao um actually in Japan the ensemble style of drumming that we're doing um which which we refer to as kumi dao um only started in Japan in 1951 and so with that um naturally the tao the drum itself is really hundreds of years old in Japan accompanying the other folk and traditional music forms of Japan but as an ensemble where it's just the drumming itself is really relatively knew and it was brought over here by Sichi Tanaga San Francisco Taiko dojo in 1968 and so when we started we were the third Tao group to begin so people knew maybe what the drum was a tao was but they didn't know the style and form of what it what it is and so when we first started playing like all the the the other tiger group that started was in Los Angeles the Kinada Tao group we were all mainly playing at festivals community events the Oon festival outdoor events And so for us uh it was not playing on an indoor performance stage. We were basically on the streets playing doing our performances. And so um to educate the audiences not only what we were as a Tao group and what Tao meant but also to transition that over the years to what a performance would look like indoors on a stage in a performance in that way was really our challenge too because um folks um in our community would see us at at the at the festival for free and then um naturally when we asked them well we have this theater show this performance this concert we're doing and we'd like you to come and pay for that. Um it was like well I just saw you for free why should I do that? So you know and so that was kind of the problem we were doing but as we were starting the tour also you know the other problem was that uh because the touring program was performing in theaters across the country the local audiences really just still remember us as the Oon festival group and so again it was still a little bit of a challenge for people to understand that difference of what Tao was for us. It has changed quite a bit. I mean, but it's taken 50 years basically. So, u a long time in order to educate the audience about what Tao is at the different levels and to understand that um it's very important that you do see it in the festivals, but there is this other element now that's being performed indoors on on stages. >> I'd like to add that um there's the what has changed in our community, Japan Town, and I'll even say San Jose. I'll start with San Jose in that um there was a fine arts commission when we were ready to go out for uh funding. Um they didn't know what Tao was. So what are you? Are you dance? Are you music? Are you theater? Yes was the answer. So there was that education just in general. And also um just the whole era was starting to um uncover multicultural arts. And so we were starting to be the voice of multicultural arts and trying to bring um different multicultural arts together. But then we were also being placed in with the symphony and the other big five and uh not really addressing what our true needs are. So, I have to say that from back then to now, there's a lot more sensitivity and understanding. Um, for the for Japan Town, I would have to say that um our plane was a novelty. They're loud. And it's like, yeah, we are loud because I I chose that because I can't do the classical dancing or the flower arranging. I'm loud. And so that also was I think a source of empowerment like I want to do that little kids now they have kids that are kids and come in and go I want to do that. So there is that transference of u I want to do it. >> I want to add one more thing that may come as uh you know new to some of you. Um in Indian uh dance Indian all Indian art is supposed to be divine which means it's from a divine origin it's uh considered to be a a worship of the divine your s you know it's there's spirituality associated with every Indian art form and therefore why do you have to pay for something like that you have to do it free because you are doing it for as a worship so you know why why should don't pay for anything. So nothing that payment for a dance concept was not there in the audience at all. They wanted you to do it for free. I mean yeah it's a divine art form. You you're dancing as a worship. Yes, you should dance. Yes, you should be you should you know sing. You should you know play an instrument. Nobody needs to pay a ticket and come to see you. You know it's your you're doing it for your own spiritual awareness awakening you know. So that was a great deal of uh education that one had to do to our audiences which is not now I think some people still some people still want you to do things for free but um but they're you know also willing to pay now >> that uh that challenge remains today and that's something we are really continuing to fight for. Um artists today are continuing to be asked to pay cultural artists um are continuing to get regular requests to to perform for free and um that is uh again sort of as a sector as our organization we're really really um advocating to not do that an example of not doing that paying artists equitably um and a couple of things PJ Roy said I you know things that we seem that that appear to be very traditional today. Um so many elements were controversial in the in the very very beginning. I remember during the interview you shared that uh to use wine barrels right as tao drums uh the uh the folks in Japan were just uh just just mad that you you were you were doing that you're really really crazy. Um, next question would love to hear a little bit about as you are all pioneers in your um, cultural leadership, artistic leadership and therefore you were along the way and also starting your journey not having um, lot of road mapaps to follow. uh could you share with us what are some of the major challenges you've encountered along the way and how did you address those challenges? >> I'm going to jump in quickly and say you know we have this saying to say um I won't take credit for that. I'm a kind of a if anybody in here understand Liberian I'm a small potato. >> Yes. So I I you know I came in I would say at the right time also especially to the Bay Area. Let me move you know fast forward a little bit from the 70s and jump into the 80s and 90. You know I had knowledgeable you know people here artists you know elders and whatnot. Some of them I still here. So I had you know I didn't have to create a new path. I just stepped onto it and there were leaders also already in front of me. So yeah I you know maybe some of the panelists can but yeah I had already examples to follow which I say is a blessing >> because you want to build on knowledge. You don't need to create new knowledge where there is already one. >> The elders before the elders. >> Of course, Mama Naomi, you you and all the legacy artists have paved the pathway uh for so many of us to come afterwards. Uh does anybody want to address some of the major challenges you've uh encountered along the way and how you address them? >> Well, I guess I can go next. I think the uh major challenge then was um the powers that be recognizing that what we do had value and how important it was to the community. How it was uh not just entertainment because that was never like um us just to entertain. It was always for a purpose. And then like in doing the work, we know that it brought knowledge, but we also recognize that it brought healing and understanding for our own culture. but like becoming more knowledgeable about other cultures and how important that was for us to understand and share the knowledge of like you know we're all here in this US of A and like uh everybody's coming from someplace different and everybody has their own cultural experience and how those cultures how we're really all connected you know and how that understanding is so important. I think even today that is like uh one of a primary things the understanding of understanding and appreciation of other cultures to bring us together. Um, so I just I just wanted to say that in terms of like the challenge in the beginning was just people valuing you know this as an art form and then today I think the uh appreciation is needed of you know all of the cultures. So >> I would like to add that for us um we incorporated a group as a nonprofit in 1982. So it was not quite 10 years after we kind of started the group and we did that with the intent that we were thinking that we wanted to um get more funding go after the grants and things like this um not really understanding or knowing what it meant to run or start a nonprofit. So we just jumped into it basically. And so the challenge for us was to uh figure that out. basically um our first uh so-called board of directors were members of the group and actually the members we were all one basically board and plane members whatever we're all the same and so when we started to apply for grants the funders naturally were asking or seeing well your list of board members are the same list over here what's the difference I said there is none you know so well there has to be a difference you know and so why you know I'm asking and So um those are the challenges we had to learn or tried to I guess um compromise in a way and again for us as they're asking for a top- down system or structure which we didn't have. We're very kind of community collective based in a way really sharing responsibilities within the group. So it was difficult to explain that in a grant or on paper in a structure. And so um it was difficult for funders to understand how we operated and how we uh were responsible within that context. And so it was uh took us many years in order to understand how do we really organize ourselves to um to make it work for ourselves and be able to write about it and explain it well enough so that funders understand that too. And so um it was a big challenge for us as we started to move up. You first it was the city of San Jose funding and then the state of California that's California arts council and then eventually we got into the NEA national madama for the arts and then foundations. But um all along it was really that kind of um them asking us those same questions about you know why you don't look like you know the symphony or how come your your board doesn't have like 50 people on it and why you know you know why aren't you doing different kind of fundraising that other organizations doing and so again our purpose and how we wanted to do things and um our focus was so different at that time and I feel most the most of the groups coming out of the communities had that same kind of issue and how to explain and why they were doing what they were doing. >> Uh the culturally specific art forms, you know, is something that we had to contend with all the time and uh for the sensitivity to understand that the way we work things out internally is not going to be structured corporate top down. And I have to say that um that was the challenge to coming from um community organizing principles. Um it it was not a top- down type of approach. It was more lateral and that was also a difficulty in that we are all artists. So when it came down the challenge is who's going to take care of the administration? who's going to do all that paperwork? It's like I'd rather play, you know? So, that was the challenge. And how do you keep it going? >> I want to continue on that same vein that um as an artist um um you know, there's no diva like stature that you have. You have to open your studio. You have to sweep it yourself. You have to clean the toilets yourself. Sometimes you have to do everything yourself. you know the lighting you have, you know, be backstage, make sure that you know, nobody's left red marks on the st on the back on the green room and you have to clean it yourself otherwise you know that you're going to get a $250 extra charge on your thing. So there are so many little things and little struggles that you take on as you're you know right from the time you you'd never have that diva like thing that you might have in India for instance if you were a major artist you just go there everything is done for you you just go there perform and you come away it's nothing like that right from um basic uh uh taking care of the studio taking care of administration taking care of lighting and so many other little tasks that are involved with the production. All that is either you and your family of course is roped into it. I think as I told you before um entire families, families of students, all of them are roped into doing all these uh tasks while you're struggling to make your organization, you know, more viable. >> We got a quick comment. Um the all the legacy artists have spoken about sort of fighting for recognition, fighting for recognition of uh you as an artist, your art form, your community, your way of operating. Um so, you know, part of what we're doing quite a bit in Arts West now is is advocacy work. And it's not just important to come to the table, but to be able to be a decision maker when policies are being made. For example, um Roy now is a member of California Arts Council. Um you know, a rare cultural artist was part of that body. I am now a board executive member for California for the Arts, the largest full-time arts advocacy organization in California. um we go to uh state capital every year to speak with the legislators and make our voices heard. So really really want to encourage everybody in this audience to really um you know serve on boards, serve on arts commissions um and get involved in decision making however you can and and you know meet with your legislators. Um 20 years ago when I first became the executive director, I didn't see a lot of cultural artists working in philanthropy. But now we have Ram Morera as city of um San San Jose. Um we have Denise Pate at San Francisco Arts Commission. Um we have Aaliyah Malibuo at Graody. We have a lot of cultural artists at San Francisco Foundation. It is so important that folks who understand cultural arts are spread out to um have representation, have wide, expansive and diverse representation, the decision-making bodies so that we're not on the outer fringes sort of like yelling and wanting to support that we don't neatly fit into the music category, the dance category that um we are part of the decision making process as Well, so I just want to say that for everybody who's here. I know there's a lot of artists in the audience. Um, get involved. Sam, >> something that got stuck in my head is that you guys did your art form, your cultural representation with intention, with a purpose. So, having done that, when you realize that what you've done was creating an impact in your community, there's a moment that you now I see it. What I'm doing matters when you realize that. Anybody wants to share? >> Well, let me start again. >> Um, well, you know, I I start with I I I eat, sleep, drink, >> go to the bathroom, dance, and music. >> I've always done that. So it has always been something automatic, not only from here, but starting back in Liberia. I I mean I used to do my school talent shows and all this type of stuff, you know, hang, you know, go to the cultural center just to watch, you know, the dances and whatnot. So I mean, I just want to say it's something it it was a given. I didn't even think about it. It was just something because it fed my soul. It fed who I am then and still today. So that's why I use the phrase I am, you know. So I mean I can't think of anything else >> and I will pass that on to somebody else. >> What a way to answer. I have um uh in just a couple of weeks back I think uh less than a couple of weeks back I was in B in Canada and a student of mine um came and an entire family came and bowed to me because she's moved to D she's in Dallas and she has her own school and she had just produced her her own I mean presented her own student in her solo debut her entire family came to my table and respect respectfully bowed to me. All of them bowed to me saying what an you know they said they felt that I had really shown them the path u been an inspiration to her for having you know set her taught her all these years in when she was here in the Bay Area and she had moved and she had formed her own school. So that was a moment when I felt you know I really had made a difference in somebody's life um by uh imparting the art to them imparting to them the tradition and the you know the discipline and the and the the dedication needed to be able to also conduct a school on their own and uh present you know to their generation as well. So that continuity um you know and the respect that I got from all of them made me feel really you know like I'd achieved something in my life. Well continue. Um well one of my uh I guess inspirations was how I recognized how dance and music touched my lives. And so when I, you know, when we uh cuz the company was founded by three people, we saw how it touched other people's lives. And today we're still seeing that through uh the school that we have in Oakland. And we have people's grandchildren that were part of, you know, the organization. I mean they were part of the organization then their children and now we have their grandchildren. So um we know that it touches lives and so my that was my first inspiration knowing how it touched me and my wanting to like pass you know that on cuz we know that you know art is powerful. >> Let me add to that. How many of us have gone to an airport and we heard our name being called? I've heard students say, "Mama, now help me." And I'm like, "I'm in Atlanta. I'm in Philadelphia. Who's calling my name?" And to just turn around and see a former student or former dancer and they come up to you and say, "You know, I was in school with you. You made a difference. you made me stay in school. If not, I don't know what would have happened to me today. I mean, just just to say that I know we have all gone through that. >> I guess for me it's um to be honest, it was when people started asking us to come and play, you know, that really kind of valid because when we started, we're just having fun. It was just a youth project and we were just basically getting together to jam and playing the drums and so the idea of performance was not on our mind. So um it was not something that we intended to do. But as people started to ask us to play we realized that this was an art form. This was an activity and this was something that other folks really wanted to see and hear and learn more about. And so as we developed the ensemble, we were writing our own music as PJ mentioned. We had to make our own drums initially. So we're doing that and just um and again we were the third group to start. There's we understand there's over 400 groups in North America now. So to see that growth and to be part of that is really been kind of enlightening and be really an empowerment for us to realize that what we started as a small seed in San Jose really helped grow throughout the country. um as as an art form is just really kind of exciting to see that um we like as mentioned you know people will come up to us say you know I started Tao because I saw you or I took one of your workshops and now I'm I'm leading this group or doing this wherever we travel to other groups. It's just really kind of an amazing experience. We just came back from Toronto uh Tao um festival and um it was kind of startling to be recognized that we inspired growth in Canada and it was um through the Powell Street Festival in Vancouver where our um cohorts community organizers in the Japanese Canadian community and Japanese American community say Wow, we are coming from the same movement and you're doing Tao. Um, that looks great. Basically, all I said was, if we could do it, you could do it. The next year they were doing it. And then from there, they went across Canada. And so, uh, it was kind of interesting to see who inspired whom. And it keeps on going. I do want to say also that we didn't do it by ourselves. There are advocates and supporters out there and I'm going to point out even Phil Esparza out there for Deatro Compasino and also Dwayne Abata from Japan Theater down in Los Angeles and he saw the growth in North American Tao. He said, "What a shame. You guys should be sharing stories, your resources." And they basically put together like time for us to have a Tao conference, North American Tao conference. And from that point, it's like that commitment of growth and sharing. It was creating a sharing community. It's not like you're stealing our ideas, you know, you can't do that. It was like this very opensource and supportive kind of community. >> Wow, that's amazing. Uh speaking of sharing resources, we uh we got funding from Wallace Foundation a few years ago to conduct the organization's very first large scale research project and um we will be very soon later this year publishing on our website every single dance company that we have presented since 1978. So that's going to go on our website very very very soon and hopefully give some visibility for these groups as well. This panel is all about sitting in the feet of our elders. So I want to ask our elders today if you could leave the next generation with one message blessing or lesson from your journey. What would you want them to carry? >> Well I'll start. One of the things that I think is really important for the next generation for the people's lives that we've touched and inspire that they continue that passion and um the respect you know for the culture and all of the throughout the diaspora that everybody's contributed to it to for people to know what that is and for them to respect, you know, those traditions and pass them on because if we don't, they will be erased. As simple as that. Culture, art is essential, but so is culture. And if we don't preserve it and pass it on, it'll be erased. So I just hope that the next generation will continue to be resilient, will continue to be passionate, loving so that it can continue. I will I will add most important that um each generation understand that I mean I'm sure we did. It's important that you build on the previous generation. never feel like you have to create I think there is a little bit of culture right now where you know and I would say this where the young people say oh I don't want to do that no more but it's not about what you don't want to do no more it's about what you going to add on to put your name also in the forefront so people will say oh okay that was there now they did this you know so very important that you So, and we have to be responsible for that. Reminding the next generation that you know what you're going to do your own thing. But it's important to know someone came before you and they sit they laid the foundation because the house cannot be put up without a foundation you know but it I think we are responsible to re-emphasize that. I think right now what is happening we are not doing it we are also falling in the trap of being quiet because maybe we don't want to offend so we don't correct no more we just say oh let them go do you know let them do their thing that's wonderful to do your thing but what is it what is the thing you know so that's all I want to say teach the generation we have to build on the previous to come to the new. The foundation is there. You don't have to recreate. >> That's um I think that's one thing that I also wanted to say was um um that uh the next generation should realize that we you know the foundation has to be really really strong. you're learning a tradition that is several thousands of years old and uh trying to learn it you know in a couple of years or one year or a few months is not the answer. You have to give your time to learn it with dedication, with discipline, complete immersion in learning it before you start thinking of doing something else like she said. Um before you start thinking of you know maybe as people want to think of as fusion. Um but the moment you do one fusion you're diluting the art form and further than that somebody else does some more fusion they're further furthering you know diluting the art form even more. So ultimately at the end they'll never even recognize what it was in the first place. So spending the time and the energy and the dedication to learn something absolutely giving the time that you you need to learn a discipline. I mean what what I know and I know what most of us know is only a drop in the ocean that is any art form that we learn. We are only you know absorbing one drop of it. There's so much more to learn in any art form and that is what we are imparting to the next generation and if they don't take the time to learn that little thing I don't think they should be ready to create anything new unless they have given that time to you know build a solid foundation like you said >> I I just like to think of one word but it has multiple definition so remember so everything that everybody is talking about is like how to remember and there is that respect factor everything that has come before. It didn't come here all of a sudden and how to embrace the history, the culture, the um the tradition of what gives us this um opportunity to carry it forward. Remember I feel like also we are so separated. How do we come together? So remember everything that is separated. >> Thank you. You know, it's uh hard to follow what everyone just said because it's uh it's all so important and I feel we're all um I I think we're all facing the same questions or seeing the same problems basically where um what what I feel for me is respecting history. Um I'm gonna say something that's a little bit in contradiction I guess because I do say to uh other members. You have to respect history. You have to understand where things come from the foundation. But at the same time I also say you have to be creative. You have to develop something new. You have to be really uh thoughtful about what you're doing. Um I feel that you have to be patient in order to understand that whole process and be patient in order to learn the skills in order to do it well. Um, but also they need to be persistent in order to make it happen because we all face challenges still. It's it's not easy for anyone to continue on what we're all doing. >> Wow. Uh, thank you so much for sharing today. We've allocated some time for audience Q&A. And Lauren, if you could uh just kind of keep us on track regarding time >> having this opportunity of >> where Lauren is >> this wonderful panel. It's it's a great opportunity for you guys to ask questions. Anybody's interested in asking a question? Yes. >> I am just so grateful to everyone here. Um I was married to Bruce Davis for like 25 years. He passed away last year. And the the theme today of coming together is so important. I think back to every festival that I went to watching every group. Seeing the final gathering of all the dancers on the stage is like it's in my soul and um I just I want to thank the infrastructure that's here that supports the artists because without the legacy of what Bruce started with city celebration and ethnic dance festival and now seeing what an is doing today and the staff, it's just um coming together. It all it the infrastructure has to be there for the artists to create and to collaborate and I'm just um thrilled like 50 years. That's amazing. So, thank you all. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you so much, Bruce Davis, the former executive director of the organization. And I also want to acknowledge the entire ecosystem, you know, the presenters, the spaces, the arts administrators, the production people, the documentation folks, uh, photographers and videographers, the countless countless countless volunteers um, who are part of this family to to make, you know, all of this possible. Really that is our entire ecosystem, our entire family. So we really want to acknowledge um you everybody and many of them are in the audience today. So next question. >> Next question Mr. Run this. There you go. Thank you. >> Thank you. First of all, just thank you so much for this um beautiful panel and um I can't uh let the opportunity go by um to not ask a question from from these wise guys. Um that um you know, one of the things that is just so wonderful about traditional art forms is the wisdom that is encoded in them. they they have wisdom that to have lasted this long that other things have fallen aside and it's the it's I think the purity of of of resilience of culture um that is encoded in the art forms and so I wanted to ask anybody who is willing to answer in these times because first of all because you have endured through so much uh very hard times. I don't know if there's ever been an easier time. Some times are easier than others, but I don't know if there's ever been an easy time to be a traditional artist in this country. And so I just wanted to ask you if you wanted to share any gems from your culture about resilience because I think we really need it right now. We need that wisdom right now to understand how to survive some of the things that we're having that our country is going through right now and um folks who are under attack and and how to survive in hard times to if you have any gems you want to share would love to hear them. Thank you. I um in general when you know from the Bhagavat Gita they always say that whenever you work you have to work without thinking about the reward. So that's I think that's one thing that we all artists do. You just you do the art you're not thinking about who's giving the next funding and who's get you know which audience is going to come. You just perform for the sake of performance for the sake of doing the art. So that's the thing that I would share with my students as well. You learn the art form, you perform the art not expecting any reward in in in return. >> I'll give um an expression called gambar in in Japanese like maintain endure and that's what we would hear from grandparents and and just family. Um just don't give up. It's but you have to be able to endure and you have to also be in the mind with that spirit of taking you forward. When you gamb you just don't sit there. It's like something that's moving you forward. It's um igniting you. So >> um I would like to say that you know people are saying that they stand on our shoulders because of all we've done but I feel I stand on the shoulders of people like you Vanessa who who you know I feel as one of my mentors and being you know developing organization. So you know with that in mind is that we all have people that we depended on in order to learn more from and learn things about. We didn't start from zero with no one around us. There was always someone before us. And so understanding that I guess is really kind of important and uh along with PJ said that the word uh for me a part of that uh term in Japanese is gaman which is persevere is u really an important term for me. How um no matter what happens you have to kind of think about how to react to it but not overreact to it. And so, um, I feel it's for me it's helped me center where I just don't go crazy because otherwise there's too many things that you need to react to naturally. And so, um, how to really kind of keep yourself calm within a crisis is really kind of critical. And so, whatever whatever you could do to find that inner peace, I guess, within that situation is, I think, really important. Uh when I think about it, I mean I want to say the the artists of I mean Diamanur, you know, I give them so much credit because I mean it's a sacrifice, you know, and I say I'm glad, you know, because they recognize the fact that this uh you know, the African music, dance, everything, you know, give such a energy that keeps them coming back and sacrificing move moving other you know Oakland to go far off because they can't afford the rent you know spend all that money on gas and everything else you know to come to rehearsal you know even where they're not being paid you know so I want to say one resilience I would say uh the company members you know, because it takes a lot out of them. They have families and some of them don't, you know, I mean, people are getting laid off right now, so they might not have jobs, you know, but they still come. So, I mean, it makes me proud to know that boy, it must be something >> in this art that keeps them saying it doesn't matter. I'm still going to go to rehearsal. I'm going to find gas money to get to rehearsal. I don't know where my rent is coming from tomorrow, but it's okay because when I hear the music and I'm dancing, the energy that I get, you know, it's worth it. >> So, that's what I would say. Um I would just like to uh add uh one perseverance um determination and I think that like how many of the companies have like held themselves together is like the commitment to the culture >> commitment to make what is happening in terms of the dance and music the message again it touches people sometimes even on a spiritual level you know people have stated like you know well I felt like I've gone to church you know after a performance but I think that you know the determination and looking back at um what came before us and like how we can hold on to that how we can continue to build because I think a a lot of it has to do with building uh you know as uh organizations you know move ahead but the main thing is that resilience persever perseverance and determination you know >> thank you >> thank you sir >> I almost hear Deborah saying you know we don't have a choice we have a responsibility >> because someone else is here for and said, "Look here, I'm passing it on to you and you dare not fail. You cannot leave it." So, >> thank you very much. Yes. Let's hear from them. Any other question? We have two more. Three more. Okay. Hello. Four more. >> All right. I too am very grateful to witness you all on the panel. I'll try and formulate my question um as best as possible. Um, I'm thinking of art as also an art form in addition to the forms that you teach. Um, over the courses of your careers, has there been something that you feel cannot necessarily be taught? And maybe from a constructivist perspective, students or people come to their understanding of things on their own time. And so is there something that you feel a student must come with that you can't necessarily teach them directly? I would jump in and say quickly because my you know late husband used to say feelings. >> You cannot teach feeling. >> You know someone has to come with that. Um I would just add like um you know some people come with a gift they come with it automatically with some other people I mean it's a process and um I don't know when I look at uh you know the artists the dancers uh you know it takes time to become a dancer some people say it takes 10 years but um to respect the process because it's not automatic. You know, some people come with that gift and some people I mean it takes time and and that's one of the things that I see in terms of the arts. Um, you know, we want things to be quick quick quick because this has to go on stage blah blah blah whatever or performance whatever. But um it's a process and I think that um I would encourage people to respect the process which goes along with you know technique uh performance uh presentation all of that but to respect the process it it takes time so thank you I guess I would like just sorry um there's a couple things for me is um I feel a person needs to be egoless because um I don't know I'm sure a lot of you are teachers out there but when you get someone with a really strong ego coming in um they're sometimes really difficult to work with because they just have their own agenda basically. So that's that's a difficulty but so along with that I guess is uh I guess it's important that a person comes in with a beginner's mind and so um with that thinking that whatever they're doing no matter how many times they done it it's like starting all over doing it again for the first time so you could learn something else from that and so it's that process that we all learn more from each other and what's going on I feel >> yeah that the word that comes to mind is humility is not something you can teach Um I guess you have to make sure you know hope that one gets that after um being associated with uh with master artists and other gurus or of yesterday year you know you learn you have to absorb that humility. >> Thank you so much. Can I next question? >> I was going to add Go ahead. Go ahead. >> I was just going to add one more thing. I don't know. I come from this notion that any and everything is possible. >> Uh and I I truly do believe that that things are possible and then the eye of the person who is um observing it or teaching it. Sometimes people come into things on their own. You know what I mean? and like it could be fabulous something that like you know the person that's teaching it didn't even conceive or think of and I also agree in terms of like it's like oh you almost have to be egoless >> you know to because you never stop learning no matter how long you have done this you never stop learning so >> next question >> it's more of a comment and uh coming into this beautiful space here in in the city. I have a lot of gratitude. Each and every one of you is a treasure, a gem. Thank you so much for sharing not just your experiences but also the wisdom to continue for all of us in our work. There are also quite a few people here uh gathered out here that I I recognize and also grateful to you for all of your work over the years and in moving this forward. Thank you an for this beautiful space. We came across the uh the park from the parking on the other side and coming into this center really it's the center the heart of the city and into this is very special to us. What you have each shared resonates very deeply uh with us. We work as a team. Rudy and myself have been uh involved with Mexican folk dance for a very long time and your you took me back to the 60s in Sacramento where I am from and where I started and uh every every step yes I remember this I remember that and I could clearly clearly identify with what you have been saying in your history moving forward and and to also um address the issue of resilience. We are uh not just folklorico instructors, we are also producers of of events and we produce the largest gathering of Mexican folk dancers on the planet called Dantes Unidos. And this year will be our 48th year. Thank you. Thank you. Um these last years have been a great challenge for us and uh we have received messages not just from within our community but also from our measestos in Mexico uh wondering how are you doing or sometimes it's how dare you uh still continue to gather when there's this ice threat out there when all these things are are you know coming at our community and our resilience in crude terms has to seando chingadas. Okay, that's a crude way of saying gum by or let's keep going because to not do it is not an option. It it must continue and those who can come come in and those who want to help us we we call them in to come and help. Last year we established two perimeters around our festival. uh one with the Brown Beretss and the other with a com a faith-based organization that stationed themselves a two-mile perimeter around where our festival was held to give us heads up should there be any activity that we needed to be aware of uh to you know to to share with our with our folks. Uh despite that um weii we continue to thrive. We continue to survive. Thriving and surviving is is the is the norm right now. That's what we know how to do. What we've done since we were a garage uh or basement dance company, you know, all the way to to now to this uh huge responsibility that we carry forward. I want to um add that this doesn't happen alone. Uh we last year uh found ourselves calling in the white folks. Let's call in the white people who care, the ones that wanted to actually come in and help us and be the those people that would interact with ICE if we needed to have that first line, you know, the ones with the cameras that are filming everything and the ones that are uh being the the the spokespeople for for our event to continue safely. So, we continue uh we continue to do our work. We uh appreciate everyone that has come before us, everyone that will come after us. We encourage our our community to be responsible with what they're teaching, but also that folk and folklorical, Mexican folk dance, and any folk tradition is an everchanging process. It is uh basically a an amalgamation of what came before and what is coming next. It's it's always going to be evolving. So we can't sit in in one space and say this is the way it is and it's never going to be any other way. So anyway, I wanted to share that. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you for sharing. And yes, we cannot not do it. We need to keep on doing it. One more question. Um, one thing that a lot of the elders talked about that I really appreciated was this idea of building off of the past, you know, learning these foundations and then doing something new, maybe diasporic, maybe just relevant to um, the current moment culturally or politically. Um, I wanted to ask to the cultural elders, what are some moments of uh, creativity where you guys have built off of foundations or things you've learned to create something new? And maybe what are some of the inspirations that um or sources that inspired those moments of creativity or building off of a foundation? >> Um I would start and say oh so many people because I mean for me my inspiration does not come from only African. I have you know listened to classical music and have become inspired and say oh I see this image in my mind you know I can go to yeah the tao drummers when I heard them in you know the ethnic dance festival back in the days and say wow you know I get this inspiration even with the you know the Indian dance you know and whatnot so it's everywhere and I think that will be the same for everybody. You get this inspiration from everywhere. It is never stagnant because you are always thinking about what can I create next, you know, and that's what we you know impact on the next generation. Yes, the foundation is there. It has always been there because I came on the foundation. I came on the back of other people. I didn't. I just jump up and you know started doing this. So it's for you. You have it. Take it. Run with it. But just remember where you came from. >> Thank you very much. >> See here we were talking about just in the green room. We were talking about our first collaboration which was in 1993. That's so many years back. Um, and uh, you know, we were inspired by each one's rhythms because we learned their rhythms. And I don't know if you've heard Donsuku, Donuku, Don, I still have it in my head from what I learned from them. And these, some of them still say Takadimi, Takunu, which was our uh, rhythmic syllables. We learned that first. So this sharing that we did was our you know our inspiration to learn about each other's rhythms and uh and move on and then create something different. So again as she was saying you learn the foundation but the next generation has to be curious and and we too have to be curious enough to be able to share it with others and um learn from others and be able to you know um you know not just share but also you know actually get inspired by each other's uh rhythms and uh culture and traditions and rituals and be able to put something together. um as a creative new endeavor. >> Um well, I'll just add um life and living is an inspiration for me. Looking at everything that I see in life and somehow wanting to share or bring that to the stage. I remember one thing that um Hugh Master we were doing a project with him and what he says you know what he said our inspiration comes from you all and we were saying oh no but our inspiration comes from you and then like he commented that it's cyclical you know it's like we inspire you know each other just that what is happening or has happened uh events Um that's where inspiration comes from life life and living. >> Um my dei mentioned that Sans Tao and Abanai we were able to collaborate in 1993. So collaborations for us has been a really great way to learn and expand. Um and out of that project in 2010 I believe is um the two companies came back together to do another collaboration which was presented by the ethic dance festival but it was the next generation of leadership and teachers that came together to present that and my the three of us we were on the sidelines we were just watching it at that time. It was just amazing to be able to see the next generation take that information and um just do something really something so different and expand on it. So thank you my >> before I' I I'd like to say that what we share here collectively um and with everybody energy energy is at the source essence what's at the core what's at the core of everything and where is that energy collectively coming together I I am also going I I think because we have had our experiences over these years that we kind of went through the same school. I hear a lot of same concepts and beliefs you know that we have incorporated in our lives in our art forms. So thank you very much and thank you for all of us who support and do the art. >> Thank you. >> I have a nut. Thank you so much VJ. I have a nudge from Mama Naomi that uh Denise Pace wants to say something very brief. >> Uh as we talk about passing on legacy, I just wondered if one of you would talk about your succession plans like what have you done to pass it on? Is it your family member that's your protegge? Did you get a grant? Like one of you um how did you support it? Well, we had uh or started on our succession plan. I think it's 10 years now. It might be eight. But I think that as time goes on, you have to keep looking at that. And I think since there's been so many changes uh in terms of the arts and how arts are kind of under attack now, I think that it's essential that we keep looking at like what next. One of the things that I see, one of the things that I see is a challenge for all arts organizations. You really almost need a team nowadays. You know, like in the past, you know, you just had a dance company and you did dances. or you taught classes and it just came together and people came to see it. But now I mean there you know what one of the things that happened with us was CEDA. When we had CEDA we had like um somebody that worked with touring. We had somebody that uh did administrative work. We had a grip, you know, people that carry your equipment. Um I mean everything was sectioned up. I mean, that's all gone now. It's like you have to kind of do it yourself. And you're lucky if you have people that uh have been with your organization that can help you do that. But then, you know what I feel like what we went through, I I I wouldn't want people to have to go through that. I mean, people I mean, dance companies need help because it's a totally different thing now. you you need a team of people to come and work and help and do all of the things that are that are needed. So that's what I see in terms of succession plans and success succession plans need to be funded because most of the um people who founded the organizations you didn't get paid for that you just did it for the love of the art you know but anyway I'll stop there uh quickly I want to say secession plan I have about 10 of them >> and there are two of them in the audience stand That's that next generation. Don't be shy. Stand up. Let them see you. Look, they look they're looking behind. They're looking at they're looking behind. Look. >> Hello. >> Okay. >> And I would say that we will be hosting a succession planning panel. We've got a lot of requests. This is a very very very long conversation with a lot of so a lot of wisdom to share from the elders for the next generation from our organization. So, uh please uh make sure you're on our mailing list. we will be bringing back that conversation because it's a it's an expansive it's a multi-part thoughtful conversation. So, um we will be bringing that back. So, I I know the library is giving us >> um we we're on time. Um just in closing just want to say that um on behalf of War Arts West, thank you so much for your courage, your persistence, your generosity. Many years you have given this work. It is our privilege to recognize and celebrate you today. Thank you. Thank you.