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Will The Trad Movement Replace Progressivism? | Destiny

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The podcast argues that a return to traditional gender roles, often associated with the "Trad" movement, cannot simply replace progressivism because fundamental societal realities have shifted irreversibly. The host emphasizes that women now possess unprecedented control over reproduction through birth control and widespread employment, meaning any future framework must account for these facts rather than attempting to revert to an era where men could secure relationships solely through financial provision or "Alpha" status. While the speaker acknowledges some value in traditional masculine-feminine dynamics within intimate settings like the bedroom, he criticizes modern conservative rhetoric that relies on derision and hatred toward women. Instead of viewing male leadership as authoritarian dominance, a viable future model must be cooperative, involving consultation and consent from female partners who are often highly educated and successful professionals themselves. A significant portion of the discussion addresses the changing landscape of dating preferences among women over the last two decades. The host notes that while roughly 45% of women previously refused to date men earning less than them, this figure has dropped significantly to around 29%, suggesting a gradual shift in expectations as female status and education rise. Consequently, relying on traditional metrics like income or physical dominance is no longer sufficient for attracting partners; men must offer unique value beyond financial resources or sexual access. The speaker posits that women have successfully integrated masculine traits such as independence and career ambition while retaining feminine qualities, whereas many men remain stuck in outdated socialization patterns where they prioritize work to the detriment of emotional connection. This creates a disparity where women are becoming "Alpha Omega" figures who manage their own lives effectively, leaving men struggling to adapt without incorporating necessary feminine attributes like communication and empathy into their psyches. The conversation heavily critiques toxic elements within the manosphere, particularly regarding emotional vulnerability and manipulation tactics often promoted by red pill ideology. The host explicitly distances himself from these views, labeling them as "blue pilled" in contrast but also rejecting extreme misogyny to advocate for a balanced approach. He argues that while some men fear being emotionally vulnerable will lead to rejection, true strength lies in the ability to be communicative and open without appearing weak or childish. Drawing on personal experience with his wife and observations of successful relationships, he suggests that emotional intelligence is a critical predictor of relationship longevity, outweighing factors like education level or earnings. The speaker illustrates this by noting that women often crave partners who can show vulnerability alongside competence, creating a dynamic polarity rather than the one-dimensional aggression sometimes advocated in online communities. Finally, the episode touches upon how social media and technology are reshaping standards for masculinity through fitness influencers and Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT). The host observes an alarming trend where men feel pressured to use TRT or performance-enhancing gear just as women face pressure regarding filters and cosmetic procedures, leading many young lifters to expect unrealistic results in short periods. He clarifies that while he uses TRT himself without symptoms of low testosterone, the accessibility of these treatments contributes to a distorted view of male potential where natural development is undervalued against artificial enhancements. Ultimately, the speaker concludes that society should optimize for maturity and emotional growth rather than superficial metrics like Rolex watches or follower counts on Tinder. He urges men to integrate femininity and masculinity not as binary boxes but as complementary traits that enhance their humanity, focusing on building flourishing relationships based on genuine connection rather than competing in a rigged game of objective status symbols.
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if the progressive thing isn't viable does that mean that the Trad thing's viable uh no absolutely not absolutely not and this one this is kind of what this is what frustrates me so much is that Progressive are obviously lost but then like conservatives or some of the Trap people like okay we're gonna go back to being tread no you're not we're never getting rid of abortion we're never gonna go to birth control women are working in ways that they never have before and they have so much control over reproduction that the world is fundamentally changed and whatever we go forward with in the world it has to take into account those two realities so anybody that's walking out here expecting that men can get women with paychecks or by being Alpha you're everything you're saying it doesn't matter anymore you're talking about a world that doesn't exist anymore um and anybody that's talking about like very traditional roles in terms of like who's earning more money in the house or whatever you're probably not relevant anymore so we have to carve out some world in the future where we have some idea of a masculine or male archetype that's compatible with the fact that your wife might be earning or even out earning you right that has to be a thing because once Pandora's Box is open in terms of like the reproduction [ __ ] and the working [ __ ] it's just not going to go away women are going back to to what they were before it's not going to happen and it sucks because like it would be interesting to see a lot of like Trad talks in that direction there's only you know what there's only one person I've ever heard give a good take on tried relationships and it was [ __ ] Ben Shapiro did you see Ben Shapiro's conversation with Lex Friedman bits of it uh I come from a very conservative background I grew up Catholic and when I listen to traditional people talk about male female relationships that the woman was staying in the house it was always something I was talking about with the utmost amount of respect um a woman might stay in the house but like this this whole the way that like the father is the leader like it's kind of true but it was always with consultation and consent Cooperative yes always and the way that people talk about it today is with such [ __ ] derision and hatred for women and like oh yeah like she stays in the house the man is the leader the man is in charge and it's like even the sitcoms before even when the fathers were highly competent show that the woman was very much an important figure Bill Cosby was like was he a doctor or a dentist and like his wife like even he was good of his wife um in The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air um the uncle um Uncle Phil was a [ __ ] high-powered attorney lawyer and his wife was very scary right that was always the case the way we rolled that forward into the period where men became the Clowns the Homer Simpsons of the world the Peter Griffins of the world it's even more it's the is the competent one she's the one that's balanced she runs the home she runs the man yeah even in a traditional sense so like when the try people talk about this is one of my big complaints about like red pillars this is always so much adversity between men and women rather than like cooperation so any Trad thing going forward um I don't think there's anything wrong with tread stuff some of it is fun um like some masculine feminine roles can be fun in the bedroom out of the bedroom whatever but it just has to be done with respect to where the kind of like the labor market is and the education and everything and the Reproductive Rights are today because that's not going to change so it has to incorporate that going forward how do you square the circle of uh women's I'm going to call it over uh success but women's increased success in both education employment and status with the fact that on average women want to date a man who's as educated or more as employed or more as status for a lot more women want to but that has changed pretty dramatically um I wish I had this set in hand but I want to say it was like 20 years ago it was like it was like 45 of women would never consider dating a guy that was earning more than that was earning less than them and I think that number has fallen out of like 29 and it'll probably continue to change over time but um yeah that's going to be something changing going forward the this might just be my capitalist mindset but but like I always when people email me and they always say like Destiny I want to start like this business I want to start this website like what's your piece of advice to me the one thing that I always ask somebody is if you want to start a small business first question in my opinion you should be able to answer is why would somebody use your thing over anything else if you don't have a Snappy response to that then quit go do something else you need to know a media like they want to use my thing or watch me because I can offer this unique thing and I think you should approach everything in life like that so if you're a man and you're approaching a woman and you're trying to say like okay I want to be in a relationship a woman well what do you have to offer what's the value add it can't just be a paycheck because women are working it can't just be dick because she's got birth control and Tinder it has to be something more than that and people aren't equipping men I think to have a good answer to that question um you know you can talk about the alpha hyper masculine stuff but like to be that masculine you're talking about like one percent of guys you know you're talking about like even six figure depending on where you're at might not necessarily be the [ __ ] you know you're talking about a very very small percentage so I feel like a lot of people aren't equipping men like to be able to like have that value ad for women what else some of the value adds then if it's outside of providing resources employment Etc there's gonna be a a lot of people saying this here's how I view like The World Is Gone okay women um were feminine men were masculine and women over the past 20 30 40 years have done a really good job at kind of like capturing and incorporating a whole bunch of masculine traits okay women are working they have a lot of Independence they're kind of managing their [ __ ] they've done a really good job at incorporating that while also still being feminine some people say I make you less feminine but like they still have like the feminine traits too they can take care of houses they can clean and all they should maybe some of them can't cook whatever um for men I feel like because of the way that we were raised The Way We Were socialized or whatever we still kind of have our masculine things like men can work jobs and do that and they do sometimes even to their detriment for example like over the coronavirus pandemic um men were staying home more than women to continue working to provide their for their families right so the education Gap grew even more during the pandemic seven times more men dropped out of college during covert than women yeah to maintain like households and everything right so men are still working they're doing that but the problem is men haven't Incorporated any of the feminine traits into their like psyche so women are now like these like Alpha Omega like masculine feminine creatures that are now going through yeah they're going through the world and men are like okay well um I'm like I'm very masculine and it's like okay well can you be communicative do you have emotional intelligence can you do any of these things things that traditional like guys don't give a [ __ ] about because like I don't like I don't need to be emotionally intelligent yeah you need my money to survive [ __ ] what are you gonna do right and now she's like well I have enough money [ __ ] you and I was like okay so one of the one of the things that I could see is a complication or a wrinkle there is that the sex drive and desire for women from men is so great that even a woman who has ingrained her masculine is still going to be attractive to the guy for sure I'm not convinced that a guy who has embodied his feminine becomes more attractive to to a woman especially when you have this disparity with regards to earning an education I think it's possible I just think we have like really weird and toxic ideas of like what feminine means especially from like red pill or manuscript faces I run into this all the time that for instance it's oh man okay here's a really really insane example to me that I hear okay I don't know if you've said this but a lot of red pillars say this thing where it's like if you're ever you should never ever be emotionally vulnerable to a woman because she might never ever I've ever said that I'm not just to get it out there so that you understand my positioning within the world of men's advice I'm not a part of the manosphere I never have been I'm not red pill I never have gosh I gotcha okay I am so blue pilled that I'm cooked in the eyes of the manosphere and I'm so bigoted that I'm a misogynist in the eyes of Guardian readers guys so I split the difference straight down the middle you have okay okay and when it comes to the emotional vulnerability thing that is a story that is told by men who have only ever been in relationships with women who haven't got good uh emotional control there are women out there who will and I've been in relationships with some of them that so vulnerability as a strength show me opening up or even yeah or even so people will say that like if you're ever emotionally vulnerable she might leave you right but if you're like and if you're an emotionally intellectual man you know emotional intelligence um emotional vulnerability is one of the biggest tools a manipulator can use totally [ __ ] mind [ __ ] somebody because showing limited Master vulnerability can get a woman incredibly obsessed with you and any guy that like is like a manipulative person knows that well think about what the push and pull is right the high-powered Boss [ __ ] female lawyer that wants to be tied up and domed by her husband on the night time why is that hot why is that interesting because of the polarity sometimes yeah the same the same thing goes for the guy that can be vulnerable on one side but is also super competent you know going out there and doing his thing is able to show strength but show something else too yes yes absolutely the polarity is really important and I know this in my life because I'm online I'm like hyper aggressive Ultra debate bro you know very uh I'll say yeah I'm very very aggressive but then um did you say want to be pegged in the bedroom no nice try um but like on a personal level if somebody sees me and I'm like a bit more emotionally vulnerable or more open to somebody it feels like very special it feels very earned like oh cool like and every woman I've talked to I have never in my life had a woman tell me like God I wish you would just be more aggressive to me personally it's always like I wish you would open up more I wish you'd be like more blah blah blah I'm just like I try I have issues with someone it's like yeah but um that just that's an idea of like what it means to be more feminine but every time you say that to like a red pill or whatever they're like oh you want to just like cry and sob and blah blah blah no that's being a [ __ ] child okay think about that uh it's better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war quote that everybody loves to throw around okay turn that on its head and say it's exactly the same thing but in this instance being a warrior is being able to integrate your emotions yeah but okay is it not better to have an understanding of your emotions being connection with and then choose to deploy them when you think that it's appropriate and be able to open up as opposed to being like no this is just a black box that me and no one else is ever going to look at and I'm going to die at age 70 because of [ __ ] like emotional spiritual death yeah yeah it's just it's really dumb like that having that emotional intelligence is so so important it's the number one thing I need to work on in my life that I'm like actively like working a lot with my wife even is like trying to be like a little bit more emotionally communicative because I've grown up like as a very stoic person but um I think I think that every woman wants like that type of communication with a guy on a on a healthier level but a lot of men don't learn it because we don't really communicate with ourselves like that um there are some women out there I think that would see I I've been around them ones that uh will say if I see my partner make a joke that doesn't land I like I cringe inside my ovary shrivel up inside the hyper hyper tuned to a man's state it might be there are also some women that only did guys with super huge forearms but I mean like there's always going to be like the exceptions of course whatever you say yeah well there you go yeah but I mean like for in general like being a bit more emotionally intelligent and communicative is pretty important as a guy I think you have to you need to be especially to understand like women like you need to be more in tune with yourself to see it like in other people too remember as well the the biggest predictors when it comes to longevity in a relationship are emotional stability conscientiousness growth mindset those are the one they have the best predictive power the stuff like um traditional attractiveness education level education level is uh controlled for a little bit but earnings have none of this but that's not what you're optimizing for and this is where I think that in trying to integrate some of the insights I talk about a ton on the show but saying okay what's your outcome goal here is your outcome goal to be able to [ __ ] as many girls as possible or to sleep with one guy and never catch feels or is it to try and have a flourishing relationship that's going to make you feel fulfilled and not mean that you die alone at like [ __ ] 75 with a ton of dogs yeah like what are we optimizing for yeah yeah and like I talk about like in my opinion there's like people treat it as like there's two boxes you've got femininity and masculinity and then like you try to like maximize women femininity men masculinity and I always like there's like three bucks you get like femininity maturity and masculinity we all need to work on our maturity and then like femininity masculine there's like really fun things on the side you know if you've got a guy who is incredibly intelligent he's a hard worker he's really driven he's in tune with everything and he's like he's you know tries his best like that's awesome if he's also like six four that's a huge that's a bonus it's like a fun thing on the side or if you've got a girl who's got like you know she's got all of her stuff figured out and she like big boobs like that's cool like the masculine feminine things are like really fun things on the side and they can like be really fun things to play with but that's not like the main driving contributing successes in these relationships I think you know think about what current dating optimizes for though it optimizes for those easily displayable objective metrics of success it's the Rolex on your Tinder profile it's the number of followers that you've got it's the blue tickets the car it's the size of the boobs it's a lip filler Etc yeah and for [ __ ] men today is [ __ ] trt I can't I think guys are heading towards a world where we're finally going to start to see how negative social media can affect you in the way that has been affecting women for so long okay why because all these [ __ ] now okay all these guys I don't give a [ __ ] 99 of Fitness influencers are on [ __ ] gear and trt counts as gear now okay every [ __ ] does I haven't seen so many videos so many things you guys like oh these are like my six month uh results for like lifting or whatever and these guys are like they're lean as [ __ ] they're getting huge and it's like oh like I'm 27 Lifting for the first time in five months this is my like bro really so why is that what's that got to do with the female impact of social oh because I think for women I think women see like a whole bunch of like this is what women should look like you should be this and that and like everybody's using like filters and lip filler and and for guys it's like yeah it's gonna be next oh well if you're a guy and you've been Lifting for six months you should look like this and it's like no shot yeah interesting and I've seen more and more of those like pop up everywhere now where it's almost like and because trt is so accessible these days yeah they're very low what do you think the last time I checked is 308 wow that is low yeah yeah that's like nearly subclinical I think like it's like I've heard the Rangers number from 300 to 1 000 or you've got eight you're playing with eight yeah or 350 to 1000 so I'm already below it but I don't have any of the symptoms of low T so like uh yeah I'm drunk dude I'm in the gym I'm doing my best but yeah well played um in other news this episode is brought to you by seed seeds DSO one daily symbiotic is one of the most advanced probiotics and prebiotics on the market with 24 strains it is a broad spectrum probiotic and Prebiotic formulated for Digestive gut immune and additional system benefits with 53.6 billion AFU it's two in one capsule technology protects against stomach acid and digestive enzymes for viability through your digestion this means that the probiotics will actually make it to the end of the small intestine for delivery which massively increases its Effectiveness for you all of this means that your digestion will move more smoothly so if you've been considering using some probiotics and prebiotics for while and you 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