Why You Should Spend All Of Your Money Before You Die - Bill Perkins

for the person out there who's Cookie cuttering it but really yearns to like strike out try anything move to the new City chase the girl say I love you first get in shape run the marathon whatever it is don't waste your life dude don't do it don't let the Judgment of the haters make you waste your life who said that you wrote this book to save people's lives what do you mean well the first life I wanted to save was my own um I have a I have a deep fear of wasting my life you know and I I was thinking about this earlier in life like kind of what does it all mean type conversations that people have and I was broke I was trying to work my way up in Wall Street Commodities training and you know there's a lot of frustration trying to obtain wealth and get there and I was like what does all mean what is going to get me right what is the extra money gonna get me um and I was thinking about well I don't want to be rich when I'm old because what am I going to do with money when I'm old right my life will have passed me by and what's the money for what am I going to buy at different stages in my life and what are the things that I really want and you know I was young so like when you're young you just think I just want a bunch of women and and a guitar and a fast car and you know whatever it is right all the dumb things that young people think right I was kind of on this different advertised autopilot but I really didn't want to waste my life I didn't want to go to work and bust my butt and deal with the abuse as clerks deal with trying to get get rich for nothing right to to have a picket fence and a car and a bigger car and and drive my kids to school in a bigger car right so and I also didn't want to go to work for money that I was never going to spend I didn't want to have Chucky unused Chuck E cheese tokens I use Chuck E cheese but I realized that internationally people like what the hell is he talking about Chuck E cheese tokens but I guess a lot of people know what Skee-Ball is when they give you the tickets and you go get the prize right you don't want to be playing Skee-Ball get like I don't know a million tickets and just walk out right and that that was kind of the idea of like working for money that I never would spend or never use and so I was like I don't want to waste my life I don't want to waste my life um what does that mean how do I optimize my life how do I get the most out of my life regardless you know how if I'm going to spend all my money when how does that curve work you know so I looked at life as kind of like this optimization Pro program um and I tried to distill the variables the variables were your wealth your health and your time and I was like I want to get the absolute must out of this life absolute most and so that's the save my life and so I know that's a long answer maybe we should chop that up a little bit but I'm going to tell you um you know something I usually tell people at the end is that if if you save somebody who's drowning right let's say you walk by and they're drowning and you go in and you do the mouth to mouth and they cough up the water dramatically and you're like oh my God you saved my life and I go guess what they're still gonna [ __ ] die they're just not going to die that day so what did you really do for them you gave them more I love yous more walks in the park more trips more experiences basically and so you've optimized their life for more experiences by pulling them out of the water that day um and so when I write a book about optimizing your life like not wasting your time being deliberate with your money and getting the most out of it I feel like I'm doing the same thing to a certain extent I'm giving you more I love yous more walks in the park more fulfillment right just as you gave that person the opportunity for more fulfillment when you pulled them out of the water and so I wrote the book to save my life so that I don't drown in the [ __ ] right and then hopefully you read the book you apply the principles and you don't drown in the [ __ ] and you get more life I have to say man I think that it will be a uh seminal read as as it continues to grow I know it already has been super successful but for me it was it was very um very impactful to see something that looks like life design with um the finances side with this almost sort of stoic Memento Mori you know meditate on death thing that you've got that's going on I really genuinely think that it's been one of the most impactful things I've read I read I go through an awful lot of books uh so personal uh applicability it's been very very important so you've done amazing work with it so you should be very proud of it I appreciate that when you're when you're when you're going with like this you know I'll just say it this way this counter factual regret minimization algorithm solving for net net fulfillment right people like what the [ __ ] you know I mean like these are the algorithms that like chess computers use right it's just what if scenario analysis to and a chess computer is solving for me right and a lot of people run their lives on a counter factual regret minimization solving for the highest net worth right and I'm like no let's run the algorithm solving for net fulfillment because that's the purpose of life right so where everybody agrees with me like okay good what resources do we have well we're going to use uh your wealth your health and your time how does that apply you know I could do it and I can we were you know there was a lot of debate about how do you sync this message into people right like people don't want to look at a bunch of spreadsheets right they want to apply it in a visceral way how do they get the concept in the visceral way and that's why the book opens with my um friend's death right because death has a way of waking people up tell us that story um so my my friend Aaron broadson um her husband um he he just all of a sudden got diagnosed with cancer right out of nowhere she calls me up she knows I do a lot of archaic research in medical and donate medical like I went Deep dive into Ms um and and had a had a study actually published on the cover of General nature you only see small Ventures USA as funding but I was getting the scientists and hiring them and getting the lab in the gene sequencing machine whatever so I I do the Deep dive and then I I in the Deep dive like I'm some sort of medical professional I did the Deep dive as an as in I did enough research to know this is it right this is over um you know I said hey you need to take time off spend spend time with each other go with the kids Etc she was already on on that plan but you know I was there to assist right like whatever you need um do we uh you know go enjoy the last less time together and it's hard to say that without saying that right like you have no hope right obviously you're always out for Hope and they're doing experimental research and um he uh he eventually um was on the east coast and you know as frails could be right um died she violated she was going to violate a promise she made to him John by by letting the kids see him before he died so he he was he was going to go she calls me out and she's like I I gotta let the kids see him before he dies I told them he didn't want the kids to see him this way but told him not I got her a plane got him on the plane with the you know all the Contraptions and he died in the air and they had to land and so that's that story right but you know the point of that story is is that that's everybody's story it's just we just have an elongated time frame you know John had a month you have I don't know I look at mine you've got four thousand weeks two thousand weeks you know whatever it is right and so the question is is with that vacation that we have here on Earth right we have we have a vacation and it's going to end what do we want to do with our time here what do we want our story to be right so he was an unfortunate event but that provided Clarity on what they wanted to do each day right and we have that same unfortunate thing but it's so far away we're not really paying attention to our death we're not remembering death we're acting like this vacation never ends right um and we're living on autopilot which autopilot is great it helps you drive home without thinking too much it helps you do your job and get good at your job and skills but it also puts you in this path to survive not Thrive and so this kind of hey you're going to die hey this vacation is going to end it's kind of like slap across the face wake up is I think everybody needs and that's why I started with death because people connect with dying it wakes them up they're like oh [ __ ] you know like I gotta take my life seriously like what I'm gonna do what if I was going to die in a month okay I'm not going to die in a month but I'm going to die probably in 30 years 36 years what am I going to do am I 20 40 like you're open to a message right you're you're most open to change a message some sort of epiphany when death is on the line it's a profound story and creating that sense of urgency around your time on this planet is finite yeah you know you don't know how finite but it's finite and you have these nine principles that you run through that I want to go through with you today the first one is maximize positive life experiences right so you know it's kind of like how do I have this broad definition of what is the purpose of your life right and when I say experience I really mean your choices right like you make a choice I have I have a choice I can wake up I can come on this podcast I can drink water I can drink a sugary drink Etc and those choices Drive our fulfillment right and they're different for each person right somebody like I'm maximally filled fulfilled playing a game of chess somebody's like it's swimming for me it's travel for me it's doing charity work and doing you know I make no judgment about what that is but what I say is that life is the sum of your choices life is the sum of your experiences life is the sum of your positive experiences and so if you trying to get the most out of this life let's make the high score positive life experiences so let's maximize those right so now we have a metric that all of us can think about something we're optimizing right we're optimizing for right and so we we have this kind of um it's a variable right that variable means different things to different people right and different in different you know mixes right but we know we're solving for that right and we and if we're if that everybody kind of gets on board like I agree right I'd have an inbound like no that's not what I want I said well experience can be anything it could be charitable it can be hedonistic right for some of our friends is as many girls as they can get and for some of my friends is as many lives they can impact and and and and and and and change in a positive direction right I cast no judgment I just say hey what you're solving for this is how we get the maximum you say most people fear running out of money what you should really fear is wasting your life yeah and I think that that blend between if what we want is positive life experiences and the things that we need in order to be able to get that uh wealth health and time right working out the trade working out the appropriate trade between those two and where you can give it up and where you're refusing to give it up right is one of the I guess big takeaways for me and I think a lot of people that are listening will be part of this cohort of I don't know like guilty Savers yeah I would call them yeah a lot of it's conditioning um and and there's there's some sort of uh Pride I remember when I was like just on the fire movement I read the book uh your money or your life and I I was like so proud of myself saving you know and it it was just kind of this like smugness about it like even though you got a million dollars but yeah I know how to say you know I know how to get a coupon to the train and do X Y and Z and I did this and I'm just happy because I am so right in my my judicious saving you know and um and you know I got called the [ __ ] idiot and kind of woke up and woke up to that by my boss at the time but you know generally in this book like you'll find other people like they'll sacrifice all of the variables for their health well their sacrifice all other variables you know for their for their money or all for their time and I'm like they take these three variables and we're solving for maximum fulfillment so we will burn money for fulfillment we'll even burn some health for fulfillment right and we will burn time for fulfillment right and so and depending on who you are that's going to be you know that that mix and what you do and what activities fulfill you that's going to be uh an individual decision but the formula Still Remains the Same what if somebody says and I was asked this question yesterday what do you want in life and when they're asked that question they find it very hard to answer that is that is um that is the biggest trick or the biggest requirement um that's kind of not there in the book right we discuss it you have to get off autopilot you have to understand what fulfills you and what you want right and a lot of people uh myself included because I wrote the book to save my own life so don't don't think that like I'm the Dalai Lama of like net fulfillment and I got it all figured out right I have this I wrote this book to slap my own face to get off autopilot but a lot of times like I have to get off autopilot on the sentence like what really do I enjoy what really fulfills me what would I really rather be doing now what is just autopilot marketing uh inertia right in my life you know and if there is a nurse in my life that identify do I'm going to keep some of that inertia because it's okay you know it's good it's fulfilling and but I need to dial it back and what is that ratio right um that's the first step what have you come to believe about that um I come to believe a lot of the things that I enjoy now um even things that fulfill me has been marketing and culture and culture is a form of marketing right things my parents want it and they want it for me and they enjoyed and Foods they ate and Foods they fed me as a kid which then I come to love you know I always tell people the reason why you don't eat fried crickets is because you weren't raised in China but if you were in China you'd be like I really want to fry Cricket on a stack right now you know it's just like a lot of your food choices are just cultural right you've been programming and some of the programming is good it's fulfilling like this is great programming I love the programming and that can't be wisdom in programs yeah too yeah yeah it's not like you know these humans were just you know randomly picking up things but they were making do with the resources they had and they ate the foods that were around them and and that's how their palette was formed or that maybe that was wise maybe it was unwise right um and you know you have to sit back and think about these things with your prefrontal cortex not be on autopilot right and go is this a good thing this is good for me do I really like it it's good for the environment is it healthy you know all these other things right it's a lot of energy right and I'm just talking about food choices never mind like do I really want to go live in Norway is it too cold why don't I like the cold you know me like these these are these are a lot of questions right and so that's the most difficult thing but these are some things that we have to be prodding ourselves and asking ourselves right like is this what I really really really want you know people wake up you know usually after some traumatic event I got fired or somebody died or my dad died or or something like I don't even know why I'm doing this I don't even really like this you know why am I here you know and and they're they're they have this crisis because something snapped them off autopilot and they've they've looked at their cells and they look and they realize how they're living is not what fulfills them and it's not even how they want to be fulfilling it's just how the autopilot of their life has taken off why is life energy important it's it's life energy is the you know the definition of Life Energy is really kind of like the time you have right the hours you have as a human being as a functional human being right and so it's the only resource you really have and when it's gone it's gone that that is it right your money can go and we can still use the principles and die with zero to G fulfillment right because then it becomes a life ordering problem right do I visit my grandmother and go with a walk with my grandmother or do I play cards with the boys right and and the life you know the optimization program would say well I can play cards with the boys for the next 10 years Grandma's probably got two so it's probably time to do Grandma stuff now and play cards with the boys later right I I tell people like it's not in the book um life is like Tetris everybody you know the game Tetris you know I use the example let's say you're in heaven and you're about to be born and God's like here's the infinite bucket of experiences choose what you would like on your adventure and you're like okay the sex thing seems interested ten thousand maybe 15 000 times okay uh I want to ride a bike I want to get a job I want to get graduated I think I want to get married and have kitchen I want to marry and have kids I want you strip clubs that's interesting I'll throw in a couple of those you know biking yeah I want to get an award and you know you just whatever I'm just making these things up right play baseball God goes all right you can have them all the only one thing only one thing only one condition you got to get the order right right and so the people that like do the marriage thing and have kids and then put the strip club afterwards don't kind of get the high score right because it interferes with it these are Dynamic decisions right or they put the Hella skiing Mount Kilimanjaro at 86. it's kind of in the wrong spot right like they don't get fulfillment for it and they can't do it right they waited too long they should put that there and then this there right they didn't get the order right and so that's true for everyone right like we have a lot of the the order there are certain places and certain time periods of our life where things are are more optimal to happen and if you don't put them in that time period yes maybe you can do them in another time period in your life but it might be sub-optimal and cause problems for other things around you or you might not be able to do them at all right the last day of my uh wakeboarding was four years ago the speed of the board and the collisions are too bad for my back now I can wake sir I picked up wake surfing but um wakeboarding days are gone tackle playing tackle football 20 years ago so how'd you have never decided to go wakeboarding four years ago your last time of white building would have been fun more further further seven years as a matter of fact it was a conscious decision on the beach my friend's like we're gonna go wakeboarding I'm like I'm kind of hanging out it's nice and I thought about it I was like if I don't go wakeboarding now when is the next time I'm gonna have an opportunity to go wakeboarding and will I be able to and I was like this may very well be the last wakeboarding trip last wakeboarding opportunity and so I took it and I went I jumped awake I even landed jumping awake and [ __ ] yeah that was it right I went out I went on high right I do that every time every time I go it works wake surfing I always have to finish on a good one yeah yeah which is rare for me because I didn't learn surfing okay so I guess the other one of the the core resources that we're going to talk about today is money yes as somebody that has spent his entire life either investing with it or betting it against other people right what do you think most people misunderstand about money and what it's for yeah I think um I know I like to talk by analogies but I think most people misunderstand that money is just a tool you know people ask does money make you happy and I'm like well do hammers install us build houses you know like it they they can build houses but you need to know how to build a house right you use those tools to build your house and a lot of people think the purpose is just to keep acquiring Hammers and saws they're like look at all these Hammers and songs I have oh I got some nails and a nail gun and a salsa and they keep they keep acquiring all the equipment to build a house right like different shiny forms of it I got these Swiss blades too and whatever and they have a pile of [ __ ] equipment to build a house they don't build the house right and in this analogy the house is happiness right so you need to know how to use those tools right in order to build a house so there's a lot of people you shower on them with money and you think okay it's fulfillment it's happiness go be happy and they [ __ ] it up because they don't know how to use the tool right they don't respect the tool they don't understand the power of the tool they don't know how to that this tool is for you or fulfillment right these this hammer and so this is what you're supposed to do is build a house with it not collect Hammers and talls why do you think it is and again this is speaking to a very particular cohort of people there are people out there who have less disposable income than they would like and there are people out there who have lots of disposable income and don't seem to be able to stop spending it this conversation isn't for either of those pairs of people really why is it that we find it so hard to spend money ah I I think there's um you know I I think one of the best arguments I've heard uh is that people have this kind of hedonic value ego value associated with the number that they don't lose attachment with right like it makes them feel good that they have this many zeros in the bank account right they it's just like watching a show to them and and you know my argument is that it you know if you take a a rat and you can train it to run in a wheel for cheese right you've seen these experiments right friends in the world for cheese eventually you could just show them the wheel and never give them the cheese they'll just run and that's kind of what I think a lot of work and and and the money right in the beginning when you were young and you were close to fun and you went outdoors and you played and you interacted with people Etc the money was like to go to the event to the college to visit your friends to go to the concert right it was a it was the tool you needed to have the to get beerus whatever for your friends then you went to work and it was like to pay your bills and need more or whatever and it's like the safety blanket and I need it for this and you you keep doing that and then eventually we just take the reward away the abstraction of money takes you away from what it was for right so it's first was just like instant like the money goes in it turns into a beer you're hanging with your friends you're having fun I need more of this stuff to get this activity we're going to spring break we're going here we're traveling whatever and then you're just accumulating it for future trips I know I know it will do the thing right this abstraction these power units right these tools yes I'm gonna build a house I need more sauce more sauce more Nails more paneling more more whatever you just keep doing it and you never you just don't build the house right like then you're like all right I built a small tiny house but hey I can maybe I'll build 10 more houses I need I can build 30 more houses 40 more houses thousands of houses right and you never really use it you never really attach the subtraction to what it was for to fulfill you to get the stuff that that drives your fulfillment I realized this yesterday over lunch with this friend of mine that I've just been introduced to and he had a very um interesting perspective on wealth generally and I realized that there is [ __ ] tons of advice online about how to become rich and almost no advice online about how to be rich yeah that accumulating wealth is taught but enjoying wealth is not yeah yeah and I have friends in different areas that like I I I'm gonna get Limbaugh we always say Rich guys are the dumbest um because at the end of the day they found a thing in a niche and they've unlocked the key right like who who it's like slaying the dragon getting the treasure they go through all the stuff and just treasure I'm just gonna sit around and shine and take pictures of it and that's it you know like that that that treasure should go out get the girl build a house build a life you know what I mean not to Splash around on it Scrooge McDuck style um and I think it's just conditioning and training and you you you got to think like people are successful have gotten really focused and really trained on doing something very well and sometimes they do this for 10 years 20 years 30 years so all those other muscles I'm going to call them muscles like the the the go socialize with your neighbor muscle they'll go travel and explore muscle the the the the the the discovery muscle all those atrophy and the only muscle they've been building is I know how to conquer this vertical right I've conquered podcasting I've conquered gym shorts right I've conquered real estate or whatever and they just keep going and going and they're absolute [ __ ] beasts but they now have forgot about life because guys don't know how to say hi to their neighbors or invite somebody to dinner they don't know how to pick a restaurant that it's not close to where they work they don't know how to meet people that's not a work function or a conference they don't know you know they to travel is it a business meeting they don't even know how to think of ideas like wait this is painful for me it hurts it hurts like when you know when you go to the gym you haven't worked out well you do it and it hurts that's what it is for people like oh take take a month off they're like uh I don't know what to do you know and it and and that's a natural like I tell people it's like relax relax it's a natural like it's relaxed it's your first time back into Humanity you know it's your first time into you know being you you know you you you let that person die 20 years ago 10 years ago right and so I I think that that habituation and that Focus takes away from the rest of their their their their Corpus right the rest of their body they're I'm talking about their holistic body right and and so that atrophy is real and it takes a while to build it back up and it's painful right like when you see people on New Year's come in to the gym they're not bullshitting they really want to do it right they got the motivation they want to do it it's just [ __ ] painful whereas for you you go back in the gym this is my routine buddy here we go you know I'm used to the pain I'm used to the feeling like the gains Etc they don't see the gains they just feel frustration sweat and pain I feel like this [ __ ] sucks and that's what it's like for like successful rich people when it's like okay let's go be human well yeah it hurts the next principle is invest in experiences early and one of my favorite quotes from the book delaying gratification in the extreme means no gratification yeah um you know when when they talk about investing and talk about the power compound interest right and and and um you know if you put the money in the bank in 10 years you're gonna have you know let's say double your money twenty twenty thousand dollars right and okay now you have twenty thousand dollars and that's meant for you to do something with right maybe some of it's pay bills but some it's ski trips or travel or birthday presents or charity or whatever it is of the numerous things you can do with the money people um and that's okay if if you feel like not having those experiences now is worth more experiences later in your life right but there's a and that's what the interest does right it it pays out and then you're able to have more experiences and in theory you'll have more fulfillment later in life right by saving those experienced dollars and letting them grow but there's also something uh interesting fun and wonderful about experiences and and I call it the memory dividend you don't just get pleasure from when you have the experience right say you're gonna go fishing with the with the fellas and um it's great you went fishing but you also have a positive experience when you recall that fishing experience it's great hanging with my friends we caught up I caught the fish there was one big One That Got Away of course there's the big one got away story you'll probably tell the big one got away story a thousand times right never met a fisherman without a big one that got away story right and so and over those years that is going to provide you little pieces of fulfillment as well and that's called the memory dividend so the same way you get interest in the bank that's paid quarterly right you get a memory dividend that provides you fulfillment and um each time you recall and discuss that story and it compounds right like you might go out to dinner with someone new and they're a fisherman or they're okay hearing your fish story and you tell the story and you guys Bond over the story and and you know this is the fishing hole Etc and that creates a new experience that will then also have its own memory dividends associated with it and so you know Warren Buffett famously says you know when it comes to investing start early start early start early to take advantage of the compounding interest of of of money right the money compounding over time and I say the same thing with experiences start early start early start early to take advantage of the compounding memory dividend and it's also a tool to help you decide where should I should I save this money and have two ski trips 10 years from now or should I take one ski trip now and have all the associated memory dividends and will that be a more fulfilling thing do the two uh strategies of Market investment and memory investment not conflict with each other though that we need to the power of compounding is such a powerful tool financially that pushing for experiences early can curtail great gains financially down the line is that not an issue yeah it could be I mean it it it it depends on the interest rate right and how how how what experience we're talking about and how powerful like I wouldn't miss my like daughter's wedding right for for five other people's weddings down the road that's a fantastic return right five weddings to one in ten years you know so like it depends on the experience how how how what is it Irreplaceable um you know compounding and also it depends on your age right like I talk about um you know your personal interest rate I'm 80. let's say I'm 80. and you're like hey um I I can I can put this money in a bank and it's this fantastic return and you take it out 10 years from now and you'll be able to do all this stuff and I'm just like eat a bag of bleep you know I mean like no shot no [ __ ] way uh you know the the discount rate on my uh time my own interest rate my the discount rate on me delaying gratification is going to Infinity right like the day before you die your interest rate is infinity right no there's no delaying gratification the next step is to grave right so you're not like that there is no day after tomorrow right so you're gonna spend all your resources everything you got you're going to lay it on the field right now this day right and so if you just run like kind of this iteration okay well one day before I die two days before I die three days before you die so you can clearly see that you know there is this push-pull between yes I want certain things I should delay gratification I need to delay gratification for survival because that's ultimate right I don't want to die but after that it's where do I sprinkle the activities and where they belong you know and there's certain activities now that you know I would I would pay an in order sum of money to get certain experiences that I gave up when I was saving that I turned down for what I was saving when I was in my 20s well like uh my friend borrowed money from a loan shark I talk about that Jason Ruffo and he went backpacking through Europe in his 20s and and I I would be like how many millions would I pay to have taken that trip right now to go back in time even even if people say well it's easy because you have millions right now I I would just say I would there's a significant percentage of my net worth that would be outsized that would give up um to go go back and not make that and be in the pocket of a loan shark yeah yeah be in a pocket of a loan shark pay the exorbitant interest rate work my butt off or whatever so that I would have all those memory difference in that experience and those friends and that that meeting and that Adventure that belonged in that time period in my life and it's not you know I don't have like a deliberate answer like yes you should do this people like well should I do this I'm like this is for you to decide this is a framework for you to think about it another interesting reality I suppose about Warren Buffett is that even though he's a super billionaire very few people if given the choice would swap places with him well why it's because he doesn't have as much time as you do to spend that money no so it's not about the money it's not about the money it can't be about the money because if it was just about the money you would exchange places with the super rich guy regardless of his age right we we got on board in in the beginning of the book it's like life is about fulfillment it's not about the money the money is a tool to drive fulfillment right yes we'll take more money right and we'll convert that into more fulfillment but we're all about fulfillment and if we're talking about Warren Buffett he's got X years left doesn't look like that much he doesn't have that many more opportunities for film so right if you got put into the body of Warren Buffett whereas you the lesson are now healthy wise doing all the cold plunges and whatever you're doing right lifting weights making sure you have enough muscle mass uh you have many many more opportunities for fulfillment and you're going to have a high high fulfillment score you'll take I think a lot of people like I'll take zero dollars in being being Warren Buffett which is which is the truth right I have a friend Alex who said uh I know for a fact that all of the wealth I'll accumulate between now and in 20 years time in 20 years time I would give to be right back in this place with this health and this body and all of the time that's left ahead of me which means that right now is more important than all of the wealth I will generate over the next two decades of my life right you could take that he could take that now to the memory dividend and experiences and be like all right well what experiences belong right now that you can't have in 20 years because what he's basically saying is that in 20 years time okay there are certain activities certain experiences my attitude will change my aptitude will change my lung capacity will change there are certain activities that belong right now that I need to be doing right now so you should take that line of thinking to like okay what do I do right now these next two years this next year this next month what what am I not on autopilot like what am I missing let me get out my sheet okay trips entertainment love life family whatever he can he can categorize them any kind of way and be like okay zero to three years from now what what belongs right now because I already already have the concept in my head that I'm going to be dying to be back here so if I can't come back I need to make sure I get everything out of this time period that I possibly can die with zero aim to die with zero yeah this is a this is one of the axioms of the book um it you know it just goes it's kind of logical that if you're expending hours of your life that you can be doing anything right you could be backpacking panhandling through Europe you can be a volunteer you can do whatever but if you're spending hours your life for money right that then converts into experiences that you may have right travel charity whatever um if you go to work in Exchange hours your life for money that you never use you're de facto wasting your life right you're not going to go spend hours and hours rolling a Skee-Ball I mean you might do some there's some fun against Skee balls but you're not doing it to accumulate tickets like I gotta get these tickets you got to get these tickets and then not go get the silly prize right use all your tickets no cash value on the way out right Chuck E cheese tokens I like to use but not that many Chuck E Cheese's in the world um so the these these uh you know a rational person would be like okay the hours of my life that I exchanged that I give up the only thing that I have in exchange for money I will use all that resource so that I not waste my life right it's just it's just sub-optimal consumption smoothing is a term that I'd never heard of before and seems like something that should be taught to 10 year olds to me yeah for the people that I'm familiar with it what's consumption to me well it's you know um there is a the current you for for a lot of people there's a current poor you young you right that you're young and you're poor to and your future richer right you're going to make more money you're going to get successful you're going to have a promotion Etc and you know when I was younger I kind of had it backwards um first for some time and then I went crazy and went the other way but I was like making no money driving a limo at night and saving money just saving like I have a thousand dollars I have X Y and Z and I had this miracle savings that I had saved up and what I was really doing was I was borrowing from my future I was borrowing from my poor self to give to my future richer self so Bill Perkins now is looking at Bill Perkins 21 and be like you freaking idiot I couldn't care about a thousand dollars see I don't even I recognize it you know I mean like somebody you know I I it's it's it's like it means it means nothing like you you shouldn't went out on that date or you should have went out on that trip but you should have went to Florida or you you know backpacking for at least a week or or whatever you should have been having an adventure and and I would have those memories and I'd be telling interesting stories on this podcast except now I'm an uninteresting guy telling boring stories because you um yeah I tried to save a thousand dollars I'm [ __ ] pissed at that guy I'm so pissed uh you know and so consumption smoothing allows you to borrow from your richer self to finance your poorer self and vice versa how should someone tactically get into the mode of applying consumption smoothing um I I always advise like you know you're getting into like financial planning right and you should have a financial planner or at least have a spreadsheet or at least go through it right but you're gonna think about like where is the area going to consume the most uh and have the most experiences in your life and where do they fit and you know one of the things people do is like they oversight for retirement right they're like I'm gonna need all this money for retirement and I mean I'm sure everybody's like well this exception they'll point out the exception case but by and large the data is just overwhelming old people don't spend money their net worth just keeps growing right they just don't even adjusting for health care costs I know people Healthcare and yada yada right first of all there's Insurance products Etc but even without insurance products and all that that net worth just keeps growing and I get asked why does it happen I was like because I can't spend the money they can not their aptitude has changed they don't like doing the same things their bodies have changed they have the inability to do the thing and it's not even if they can it's not enjoyable like their joints hurt their back hurts yeah renting a Ferrari to go to skydiving when you're 45 versus renting a Ferrari to go to skydiving when you're 75 two very different experiences yeah even even things that you like to do like uh I mentioned Greg Whaley in the in in the book you know a friend of mine that likes to go go skiing and you know he's a ski go skiing and you'd have seven runs or eight runs a day that's two or three these start to buy them right doesn't mean that he loves loves skiing it's just not getting as much use out at a ski trip so that turns into less passes on the mountain so he'll spend less money skiing so a lot of people think their lives when they retire is gonna look like a Carnival commercial right it just looks like it's freaking chaos right like they're going down slides or eating there's photos they're running around they're traveling whatever and a lot of it's like sitting around talking with your friends and visiting grandparents and you know your grandchild grandchildren all very inexpensive yeah inexpensive low dollar amounts like I don't want to be bothered I want to sit and watch reruns of Jeopardy like leave me alone type things right and the the other super interesting thing that I found when looking or thinking about consumption smoothing is most people's earning capacity is going to steadily increase and sometimes rapidly increase right over the next two three four Decades of their life everybody that's listening to this will probably be earning way more money in 10 years time than they are right now right and way more money in 20 years time than they are right now you probably have a lot of hustle Bros and hustle girls out there like just grinding it out making just going to be printing presses for their whole life but their their capacity to spend that money and even their their their their their aptitude or willingness to to go and consume that money is going to go down over time it's so bizarre I I really think that the consumption smoothing element of this realizing that your earning potential is going to increase and that you can we spoke before we started about the fact that your identity lags Reality by one to two years right I think that your spending habits lag your current net worth by maybe even longer than that and you're spending frugally because that feels like the good thing to do because maybe you came from a working class background because generally having a safety net makes you feel good so you spend frugally based on where you're earning and on top of that where you see yourself as earning is lagging behind and then on top of all of that if you apply consumption smoothing you should actually be projecting out ahead yes where you're spending practices are at to think okay well let's say that in five years time I'm going to be you know I'm earning 30 more per year let's say well I mean I if I run that forward I've actually got way more disposable income and yet there are all of these different layers that we have that protect us from getting anywhere close to enjoying the money that we earn the people if you go out and talk to financial planners wealth managers Etc you look at the data like people way way overestimate how much they're going to be spending in retirement what they're going to be doing it's just it's just amazing um and I think it's fear-based you know a lot of it's fear-based like China uncertainty yeah a lot of uncertainty but the data is just overwhelming they can't spend it what about the people that say that they love working it's okay to work I always say like keep working just make sure you you you don't waste your life and you utilize the fruits of your labor right that balance and and you know I always get the heroin addict argument I don't have a problem with Heroin you got a problem with my hair you know I mean like I love work you know I'm just like okay listen out of the almost near infinite things you can be doing with your time here on the planet um activities choices experiences you think your happenstance just serendipitously hit number one right at the right ratio so you you you hit the right thing at the right frequency it's I just don't believe it what do you think about the sort of Sigma grind mindset Trend that we're seeing at the moment so it's got a number of different iterations but the one that I'm thinking about is this kind of Monk mode guys in their 20s get your head down reject Family Life reject you know distractions any kind of Hedonism really broadly a lot of Adventures as well accumulate wealth as much as you can uh yeah I know exactly it sounds like a version of fire um and you know I like fire because the fire is financial Independence retire early that for people who don't know that and um that that's a whole like reject materialism you know get in touch with enough what's enough for you uh save save as much as you can and then retire and live life and I'm like you know my biggest problem with that is it's [ __ ] go to jail for money that this monk is another version of go to jail for [ __ ] money right and so for me there are people out there who like you can pay him five million dollars to do a 10-year stint in sing-sing I'm not one of them but Sing Sing it's a prison Broadway State Prison whatever you know Rikers Rikers is not you know but like I'm not I'm not you know the guys who go to prison for 10 years wrongly accused or 15 years or 20 years when they come out they're not well thank God I got wrongly accused because now I got seven million dollars that that's never their story right they're still crying in tears and happy their freedom it helps yes but they would gladly give you that money back and get that that time back and so you know this reject friends reject family reject all Hedonism reject that away and then there's some Promised Land uh later in the future some version of let let's go to jail for a certain amount of time and then we're going to get a reward and yes I believe in delayed gratification and yes I do believe in you know um some work but I I think those schemes are way out of balance with whack the problem that we have is we know that delayed gratification is a useful skill for people to have you know to be able to put off eating the cookie uh succumbing to the distraction in order to be able to focus on the thing that you're doing now it feels to me maybe like delayed gratification in the micro is useful in delayed gratification in the macro gets significantly less useful yeah I I think like you have to look at your life as a complete system from Cradle to grave and then you break it down right like the 20 year old single U is going to die and you'll get married and whatever the the father with young children the the the the I I was actually growing and getting stronger and now I'm in in Decline right um that there's all different phases to your life your first job you your so-and-so your first business Etc right and those periods they die they had the they they go away single you go away and they're things that single you are to do and only meant for single you right and so yes delayed gratification is great but if you look at the totality of the system if you delay things that belong in single you to later it means you're never going to have them and so that's okay if you've decided and you're consciously saying to yourself I'm never going to experience this in my life this is not going to be part of my story right I don't want these things I don't want that Adventure I don't want that ride but what I find is a lot of people just adopt these kind of like uh programs or algorithms go on autopilot without thinking of the total system of their life right and what belongs where so another example might be you go to work the season abroad somewhere people in the UK often go to Ibiza or Majorca or somewhere like that and they go and work as a club rep or whatever else drug dealer and it would be like deciding that you're going to go out there and spend all of your time outside of whatever job it was that you were doing in the apartment that you were staying in yeah because this is how I'm going to optimize this particular period it means that I get to save more my sleep's going to be better so you know the wealth the health and the time yeah uh and you go well I mean why have you bothered to go and work abroad if that's the plan that you're going to follow why even bother going and working abroad at all because you could earn this money some other way correct and what you're saying to yourself is during this period I probably don't intend on coming back to Ibiza and doing another summer in Ibiza all of my memories will be of me going to work coming back to the apartment going to work coming back to the apartment and I I can't go back and undo that and what's most likely is that I'm not going to be here in Ibiza in the future so I can't redo it so this is my experience right so if it is to be it is in this time period and this is going to be your experience and so I'm I'm I you know you have to think of the total system right people are are getting on autopilot and myopic about the totality of life and what experiences belong in each season of their life and so you know going back to earlier when we said you know life is like Tetris you got to get the order right right you don't want to be 40 50 and go [ __ ] [ __ ] that up like I what an idiot like I missed out better go back to a bathroom try and do the season yeah no no you're married you got four kids and you know your principals and your obligations and everything prevent you from you know raving with glow sticks and Ibiza right and doing whatever you do late at night right like and and and and you you know your obligations your character everything has changed and you knew it was going to change because this is who you're aspired to be and so had you been off autopilot and thought about it but like you know what tonight the night right and future you is going yes buddy tonight's the night you know future news tonight's the night trust me you know because it ain't happening now you know it's it's so it's all diapers and whatever it's Joy not a lot of fun but a lot of joy you know with the kids yeah you know you had the fun that's the fun bucket this is the joy bucket you know I I wonder how many people struggle and and have serious regret as they get later in life from not optimizing their adventure and their fun earlier in life um I I I I you know I don't have the data to to show it but I have a lot of anecdotes that I think that is the case I think a lot of people go bananas right like a lot of people didn't do certain things at a certain time that and then and then they're trying to cram it into a period that doesn't really work uh and it creates conflict right uh either internally or even externally with Partners spouse friends work etc right and you they're they're out of balance right you're you're the total system of your life the total timeline of your life is out of balance so they have they have like fomo of a period they can't get back and you're trying to recreate recreate something in a Time bucket it doesn't work right and so I think we see a lot of that I don't have like a whole chart data social you know social uh experiment but I I see it a lot I see it a lot but one of the saddest things is to see somebody who never grows up right that continues to try and uh live a season of their life that's kind of gone right and there's something that feels kind of like destitute and and sad about that that look there are all of these other things waiting for you out there there are all of these other experiences and yet the peak of your life is getting a bag in with the boys on a weekend and you know getting into a fight outside of a kebab shop at three in the morning yeah yeah you know is it not time to grow up yet but there is also a challenge to the people who never go through whatever period of whatever type of fun it is that they want because I that also resurges and comes back around in later life I would think it would be almost certain yeah I tell people like listen you have now and going forward and so what's done is done you have your memories your your experiences your mistakes your scores and you have your resources let's optimize what what do you want in these next let's break it down next three years next three to five years what what experiences belong here what choices what trips what I love use what what charitable Deeds let's just go down whatever the list what health goals you know what belongs here right how does that fit into the next period let's look at the next period let's look at the next period and then once once we get them all lined out right we're like this one belongs here and This one belongs here and now we can optimize and we have a little bit more we have a more fulfilling life on a go forward basis but that look like we can't optimize the pass right so let's Let's uh let's accept it enjoy it let's let's let's go optimal right now let's get present let's get off autopilot and I'm really talking to myself you know I mean because that's me every like all right what do you really want what's the summer look like okay you really want to spend time with your kids what what tricks what what methods you're going to employ to like hang out with them whether you're not feeling annoying to them you know you got one summer left you've got one this like how how many times you're gonna have a good talk with them like how can you do it before they're off in the wild doing their own thing like I guess you know let's go time how are we going to do this you know what resources are going to bring to bear to this problem you know so I once you get to the point like you read the book uh you apply the principles and you and you get there right like it's like top level E equals MC squared or whatever now you're like application layer like I want to apply it to my life you know so then you bring in other things like okay these experiences I want in my life anything worth having is worth working for what resources do I bring to bear right and so I I treat each period like this is it this period dies so this is it whatever is unique to this period do not [ __ ] it up do you have your next principle is use all available planning tools yeah what have you accumulated after having written this book after having created a philosophy when it comes to trying to get tactical and create Frameworks with this what have you started to rely on do you have an assistant if you have somebody that helps you to do this and so life manager oh my gosh this is going to be like probably the most obnoxious part of the interview or most I don't know ostentatious so I have assistance I have a boutique travel firm I have you know I have meetings about ideation about things to do because there's the things I want to do and these are the things that I've been culturally trained to do or or people I interact with right that I'm gonna do that thing right but it's still kind of like comes within this bubble of My Universe and I need some random stuff that I would normally not do to expand my life to not have just a cookie cutter life because one of the things I don't want to have is a cookie cutter life okay that's a fulfilling to me not to have a cooking cooking other life and so there's a lot of of um you know there's assistance to remove the minutia of my life right so that I can do the things I want to do but they're also there to curate experiences for me and then there's this Boutique travel is when things are fulfillment I think it's one of the things you spend money on that make you richer right so it's ideation meetings constant planning about when you can do this who can come along what's this next trip when you're going to do the Japan train thing you know I learned I love training out of randomly like I thought I would hate it I was like I don't want to go sit on a train with a bunch of old people on Oregon Express you got to wear a suit I hate wearing suits when you go into the bar car it I was just like this is going to be the worst trip of my life but you know what I'm gonna do it just because it's the Orient Express people do it and I can't just do the things that I normally do or else I'm just cooking with this a suggestion of one of your ideas yeah yeah yes this is yeah so I go I go on this thing I I I I I get two two extra I bring my friend Cooper like let's go on this train he's like I can only come for this small portion of it right I got it I [ __ ] loved it I love it I I I hate to admit it I loved it it was so peaceful there were views you can see that you can't see by car because you know there's no Road you can't fly low and see it there's towns it was beautiful it was wonderful you can breathe you can relax I met all kinds of interesting people in the car I didn't know there was a training Society there's trains all over they go through all kinds of places I've been adopted now I I've I've I love I absolutely loved it and I was like this is something I can do to him 90. you know like I can do this for the rest of my life and I was all excited when I first got off where we're like we're gonna take the train up to the Machu Picchu and there's this other one that goes through the desert and you can go across Russia can't go across Russia now but you know like in the Japan train and and we were actually planning a trip and we're like okay we're gonna do this summer we're gonna do this and we thought about it we're like wait a minute wait a minute you can ride a train at 86 but can you go walk around the city streets and climb the steps of Italy at 86 and get around maybe maybe not so let's push training not that we're not going to do none of it right but we're going to do less of that now and more of that later right that's kind of die with zero thinking right that's me hey don't go on autopilot just because you got dopamine hit going on a train right it's great but let's let's be thoughtful about each time period of your life yeah so autopilot rears its head even all the time all the time it's great autopilot's great I do so many things uh driving you found something that you love yeah yeah go do it rinse keep repeat exactly you just keep going you know and and it it it relieves The Strain on your prefrontal cortex but if you want to thrive and you want to optimize you got to use a prefrontal cortex a lot or you gotta hire people I was going to say I imagine that the Outsourcing makes that an awful lot easier yeah yeah so that's the the dickish thing like I have like I I ship a lot of money into other people to help optimize life and think about these things and and arrange and and what's going to go on and think about okay you got the summer and we're going to do and there's tons of planning that they do none of what you do you know Rob Dyrdek guy that founded DC shoes no I do not uh very rich very like cool interesting guy uh he tracks every second of his life he was on the show a couple of weeks ago tracks every second of his life and he has an entire life design team that basically does the same thing uh Brian Johnson the guy that the longevity dude that's trying to live to 120. right uh you know he sold his uh a ton of companies for God knows how much money uh and he now has a full-time team of Cutting Edge longevity researchers that basically just give him every single supplement and take the biomarkers and do the things that he needs to do and uh my point being that you can think that you're being as obnoxious as you want but oh yeah there are levels you know everyone's got their own obnoxious version of whatever it is you know you're optimizing for Life design Rob's optimizing for tracking his time right uh Brian's optimizing for his longevity whatever it is for me it's all fulfillment right it's like you know it's all it's all fulfillment it's like what is going to be the most fulfilling ride I can possibly have when it comes to dying with zero you know wealth understood time understood health presumably given that health is one of the uh Three core components of what we're talking about today spending money on things that improve your health and fitness should be a place to look it's it's a it's a no-brainer it's it's um and there's simple things that like uh particularly people that have have uh money lots of disposable income you're not talking like having a chef it's like it's not only is it like convenient and it tastes good like you have this a chef in your house right whip up anything you want but they talk to the trainer they get the macros right the protein whatever and it's just Auto done for you right so it falls in a health bucket right it's easier for me not to become a fat slob because I don't think about food it's just it's just there my you know my came down here they gave me a bag and he's like here's your lunch and here's your snack here's your vegetarian protein shake and blah blah blah whatever and you know I actually said people like well what are you eating I'm like I don't know Chef what am I eating 40 40 20. you know what I mean like that's what you're on right now how many calories is this how many calories right like and and I'm just dialed right so that's like that's going to help me not have like a shittier life or less experience points doing an activity down life and then you have your trainers and Etc and then your checkups and your Diagnostics and you can keep going on with the health um I've looked at some of these guys and I'm like yeah but you're you know I was doing I did this hyperbaric chamber thing because it was like oh it can lengthen your telomeres and has this health benefit and I'm like look if all I'm if I can't die and it's quackery it's okay right it's like if there's asymmetric upside and so I was gonna re uh redo this Israeli study of of going into this hyperbaric chamber right and like length all these biomarkers are better after doing it right but you have to go in the hyperpermic chamber like I don't know consistently for like the months and this place was like a 45 minute drive away takes like X time dive to to dive down to depth to bring you to pressure and then you're there for an hour and then you gotta come out right and then I gotta get home I did the math and I was like it's not worth it it's like five hours a day or something yeah yeah it was like four or five hours of like non-productive time things I could be doing another thing in order to get like maybe a year or two or three I'll just die sooner yeah exactly exactly that's not more fulfilling that's less than that fulfillment points but I'd rather just at a very healthy point in my life right like so it was like I'd rather die sooner right okay so if die with zero how do you work out when you're gonna die so I I look at Actuarial tables there's even fancier tasks that look at like you know your methylization methylation of your of your of your of your cells telomeres Etc but you can get a pretty accurate uh estimate and you can continually update this right it's like if you're 86 you're not like oh it said I was going to die at 86 February 2nd and I'm still dead you know no you're like that that continually gets updated right so that that kind of you know it's not like a static this whole methodology this whole um um thought process right this whole way of thinking is a continually updating model right we're constantly okay when's my death day I'm alive today that basically pushes you further in the future Etc and just the probabilities is how much money I have these I just discovered I like training that gets dumped into the model gets run around and it's proper time bucket of when I should be doing training and activities Etc so this is just a way of thinking about your life and running this routine constantly um but it is good to have an estimate of when you're gonna die right it's good to have an estimate of what are they going to be the 10 last years of your life right and what do those 10 years look like right how in shape are you right how much have you been doing things that like Peter attia says have you wrapped enough muscle around yourself with your VO2 right have you been thinking about these things are you are you able to walk and pick up a small child in your last 10 years yes no that's going to change a lot of things where where you're going to live because if you want to hang out with your grandchildren right it's pain in the ass like every parent knows this and then they all do the same thing oh I it says to go visit Grandma we gotta go all the way across town or we gotta go another state and go no whatever blah blah blah right and you know my mom moved to Virginia right and we're in Texas and the sister is in New Jersey and whatever and she complains about like how we don't see her and come to her right and it's hard on her to travel right like to drop drive and it was like this is a calculation you know maybe staying in Jersey City you know obviously everybody's got to choose how they live and die and she chose that path but it comes connected with it's a dynamic decision that affects other things in your life and so you know your health in your last decade of your life is going to determine whether or not you're pretty much cool getting on a plane and traveling by yourself to go visit your grandkids and you you know spoil them and ruin your kids right like [ __ ] dad why'd you give them all the candy you know like when you get your kids back right for for being shits right uh or or not like it's a pain in the ass and I need I need help and a guardian or whatever so I have to wait for them to come to me and they have busy lives in their own lives right so all these all these things matter they matter a lot um and I think um as humans I always say we don't Net Present Value well we're not we're not good with future value and Net Present Value we're very good with the immediate like oh tiger run or bear run or salty thing or sweet thing eat you know that that type of thing not really good at like if I eat this sweet thing every day it's an extra 250 300 calories so in years that's two years is 40 extra pounds away no you know what I mean like we don't we don't do that right we just do the thing right we don't think um uh yeah if I'm out of shape and I can't walk and I can't pick up a small child and based on where I am right now it's very likely going to happen it's absolutely a certainty for a lot of people um therefore I need to live close to my grandkids if I want to see them you know that type of thing so I better plan on retiring near them or seeing them less or whatever what are some of the other planning tools that people should be aware of well uh Actuarial tables when you're going to die any kind of calendaring um I I like I like uh you know on my on my phone I have my account down clock on I'm gonna die right it's just kind of just like totally not morbid it's it's been known when you know the vacation is going to end you take the trip more seriously like if you woke up in Paris you're like this is great like I'm in Paris and you and you you you didn't know it was going to end in a week you'd be like I'm gonna do this I'm gonna sleep in today whatever blah blah if you're feeling weak you're running around like a madman soaking it up as much as you can just to interject that this is why uh short trips like aggressively short trips 36 hours 48 hours in a particular location I think it's an undervalued way to do travel I managed to do I I think it was like eight different things in 24 hours in Miami it was 24 hours from the plane landing to the plane taking off yeah I did so much stuff met up with tons of different people I played pickleball I met the the head of legal for Yeezy at some Backyard Barbecue I gave a talk at a conference I did like this and this and this thing and it was I wasn't being driven around I didn't have like a fancy team that was helping it was Uber's Uber and uh very animal very aggressive Mexican lady who uh ton of traffic to get me back in time for the plane I probably shouldn't have been able to fit number eight in uh but my point being when like Parkinson's law just fist [ __ ] everything else right work expands to fill the time given for it and your uh lackadaisicalness about how harid you're going to be to get things done will also fill the expand to fill the time that's that you believe that you've got for it yeah so so that the fact that you knew you only had 24 hours drove that activity I wonder if I stretched it out would you even done it you know I would have probably done no more things in more time yeah you know nothing there's something loving there's something that's soaking up the atmosphere but I'm just saying like with life I'm trying to create a sense of urgency right and then there's other things like daughter's graduation she's gone that's it I'm like she's out of the house like oh my gosh like we constantly talk like this might be the last summer because next summer she might want to go with friends or something like that we're constantly that's that's something that's really interesting and I've heard you talk about it on other parents as well say similar things Sam Harris talks about why uh this might be the last time that you have a bouncy or daughter on your knee right uh he always and it was really profound story how did you when your kids were growing up how did you really sort of sink into that sense of urgency during a time when you're Sleepless and it's difficult I'm going to be honest like I I've [ __ ] it up many times I messed it up many times I did not have the sense of urgency I did not you think they're going to be these little sweet things that are going to want to hang around you and you're going to be God to them forever and it's not true and they're you know there's a couple more stories I wish I read you know there's a couple more times I just hung out not done the business thing or the travel thing or whatever the other thing right and I got the order wrong so I'm hyper conscious of like let's get the order right now what's the order that you should you know for the parents of fledgling parents that are listening what's the period that you need to prioritize with your kids I I think you need to really prioritize the period that they want to be with you and that's usually 12 Sub sub 12. right because at 14 you're uncool a 13 year uncle you know it's it starts every parent knows it starts like you know it starts drifting and maybe a little bit early or whatever but like through 10 it's like you you where you want to go they want to go where where are you what you know where we're going to be this is what we're going to do they're more minimal you know Etc and then it's like nah one morning you wake up and you're the lamest person in the world you don't know anything dad you don't know anything you may have money but you don't know nothing dad that's dumb she was so you're so strange I am strange and so absurd but it's so annoying you're so annoying you know it's just like it's going to happen right and you just enjoy it you just deal with it you roll with it right but you're still like you go from like wow how do I get time to myself right with little kids right babies Etc like I have no time and parents like I need rest if we don't have sex anymore or whatever it is to you're begging to spend time with your kids like you it's literally like being like I don't know if you've ever been in a social situation where you wanted to hang out with the group but they don't want you that's that's your kids like for but for a lot of parents maybe some parents are God bless them you know what's your secrets but like for a lot of us like oh man I can't hang out with the cool kids I can't whatever so you you you know my my hack around that was late after my daughter was like oh I need to be the Uber driver like I get to talk to him when I'm driving in the car they need me to drive them to their friend's house or to go to the thing wow so that's my that's my hack right I'm like majority of the time that I'm gonna spend with them actually the most time I'm going to spend them with them is when I'm driving around Houston and Houston's like one of those cities where you can drive freaking everywhere right so that's my hack like okay I I eventually went from you know fighting about who's driving the kids too I will wake up I will fly in from another city to drive them right like I will because it means that you get to spend time with them exactly because I I try and think for it I'm like what is doing my best mean now what is doing my best in this area like when my when I'm not on autopilot and my prefrontal cortex is working and I'm on this subject what does that mean and then I I came up with it like driving is one of them small solution man yeah so and you know there's others but that's my own personal [ __ ] that people probably don't want to hear so next principle is don't live life on autopilot that's something that you've mentioned an awful lot today what do you think is the typical approach that people on autopilot use to plan their life [Applause] culture dreams of dead people what does that what culture is right dreams of dead people people before you around you right other people's dreams um this is what you should do this is how you should get married the movies say you should fall in love this way this is you have X Y and Z you find it in all kinds of ways right like I I I find people like um our friends and I so somebody recently post on internet like oh I'm I'm I'm having uh meeting somebody like finding a significant other and I'm I'm one of those like if it's worth having it's worth working for right so what resources can we bring to bear and so I'm like all right how much time are you spending on this how many people you're meeting like it's spread let's get the spreadsheets out what network what persons who's your personal Network who are your friends internet and how many dates are you going on whatever what are your criteria and have you set out your criteria like whole thing and they're just kind of I just hoping I bump into an elevator like the movie I saw and then I fall and I say the right movie line and we fall in love you know whatever some stupid [ __ ] like that and it's not like they're actually thinking that but it's buried in their subconscious right and they're on autopilot they're on cultural autopilot like thinking like oh this is how it's going to be and so that's why I think a lot of people um you know propinquity is is who they marry somebody at work somebody on the way to work etc where I'm just like wow we live in a world where you can meet anybody from anywhere and travel your range is you know there's all these tools you can have to meet people and all these apps and services Etc and you have a much bigger filter and you can be much more deliberate you can be much more vulnerable and you can get out there and you know so I think people are on autopilot in some of the most important areas of their lives well like well one is dating who are you going to marry I can't think of it more important to say when they're going to have kids right oh we just got pregnant you know not really planning it and it's not like it's like unplanned pregnancy like uh when you see a doctor type of thing but just like is this the best year is this the best year right right just kind of come with me does this fit into like your doctorate dissertation or whatever you know things like that right where they're gonna work well I grew up here in Jersey City and there's newspaper ad and these people are hiring and these people are hiring this is kind of where it's work it's like no maybe maybe I should work here maybe I should move California and a lot of that's fear-based right like a lot of people like I think one of the most restrictive things people do to themselves out of fear in autopilot is not move within within the country especially in America you guys uh a continent in a country yeah it's crazy we have a work permit you know the language you have the currency your bank account works and and like they'll be the most amazing job and opportunity whatever and they won't move because somebody lives here and I've had this conversation with someone I was like well how many times you actually see this relative I want to know in days often you quantify you didn't mean quantify I was like how much is a plane ticket how much more salary is it I mean like when you actually spend more quality time with him if it wasn't just like an hour drive or whatever but you can't they prefer to see you in California exactly and you can bring them out there and would you could you could you have could you put that time in on a trip and take them other places can you rearrange the social thing so there's a lot of just way it is and I'm gonna live here and I don't feel comfortable without really thinking it through so family work uh location of where people live yeah also just even um and just even ideas of like who says I love you first Etc like the everything is just this cultural programming with food you eat what you like dude in intentionality and the lack thereof has been the most common Trend that I've seen with people who do and do not have high agency who do and do not make appropriate changes in their life that do and do not seem to live a life that's more fulfilling or less fulfilling now remember so I run um nightclubs for a very long time in the UK and I'm in this city which has got about a million people in so it's not that much smaller than Austin and you know success in a lot of the ways I think that the world is would tell a guy in his 20s he's supposed to have success with you know status and money and women and whatnot but I used to go outside in the house in my first house that I bought it was a backyard and I would open the door before I went to bed and I'd do this every I used to every night for months and months and months and I'd look up at the stars and I remember thinking I wish I could be anywhere else but here when I was like [ __ ] like how have I got myself to the stage where I love this life and what I've built in terms of a business but I know that it's not right and yet I was so terrified of making some sort of a change because look at why we're giving up what if I fall flat in my face what if I look stupid what if I have to come back with my tail between my legs that probably the latter part I say is what stops most people it's not really what they're giving up on the money or whatever that they can rebuild it or it's not you know they can go go figure it out right it's the Judgment of their peers or themselves one of The Pierces themselves right you're going like you [ __ ] idiot you gave up the thing and it didn't work out right but a lot of is the Judgment of your peers your friends like Etc and so a lot of people don't take the chance don't take the risk and I you know I'm a maximum risk take as much risk as you possibly can stand and then add a little bit more you know especially when you're young plan in terms of Seasons we've spoken about this before the tetris the whole the whole idea is like you know you we we all think that we have we're all gonna die but we also have all these mini deaths right these these seasons of our lives like the single you the parent of a young child the first job the unemployed you the first job you the first business you right the the the the empty nester you right the retiree you right there's all these seasons in your life and so when you think about your life in Seasons if how they fit together and how we optimize each period then you're going to have a much more overall better optimization for your entire life right you're not going to be like holy [ __ ] the young kids season I I [ __ ] missed out on 50 more stories I should have read right and I don't know I don't have that I don't have that Bond and it's not like I'm going to be able to pop my 13 year old or 16 year old on my knee let me tell you and who said you know what I mean like it's just not happening right like it's over you don't get that back and and the young business you the I the young you that like has a chance to start a business right you don't have all these other obligations that maybe stop you from taking those risks because it's a pulled risk now like you know I you know I took flying lessons you just go flying I used to ride a motorcycle and it's you know um my college girlfriend's mother was a nurse and she's like you're an idiot you're writing a Kidney donor machine that's what we call them but at that age I could take that risk right it's only Reckless for you it's only Reckless for me right and then you know I was taking flying lessons and and and general aviation is about a lot of people don't realize this before you get to professional there's just general aviation and those stats are just about a motorcycle oh [ __ ] I've got I'm literally in talks to get my first set of flying lessons and I put the shits up do you have kids no okay so go ahead kill yourself no I literally almost killed myself one time too what happened um so I was at Sugar Land airport doing touch and goes flying around and um there's a a wire at the end that you have to clear right it's it's not a problem at all except on Cessna 172rs a lot of times the wheels shake in the front right if you if somebody landed it before if you touch the landing right they give a little shake and a shimmy so it's squawked it's not that big of a deal but it can become an issue so I landed on one of the touch and goes doing flaps up whatever full power but the plane is shimming like crazy and I'm like you know trying to get it done and I'm moving down the runway at the same time so I have to make a decision do I bail at C okay or do I try and gun it and clear this telephone more and like some neuron fired out bail so I freaking bail rip it you know like just kind of like and I called him the instructor and I was like uh uh yeah I decided about she's like yeah you made the right decision and I was just like [ __ ] I was a second away from making the wrong decision like there is a very very close door on like Bill go I can [ __ ] do this you know what I mean like is it clipped the wire and the plane crashes and these things are like you know aluminum foil use the engine in your chest and you're dead right like you're just these are not Teslas or you know there's no Crash Test Dummies and pl in Cessna 172 hours it crashes you're gone right and so in that matter you know you're cartwheeling whatever uh so I I thought about that and when I remember when pregnant with Sky I was like that's it I used to read the accident reports and I was like oh you know it's always pilot error pilot error pilot or apparel even when it's the plane it's like pilot error right and I thought I used to think oh I would never do that and then I thought about it I'm like no I am the guy who would do that who am I kidding I am that guy and and I was like I don't have the right to take the risk and that was it that was the end of my learning how to find Korea over before it began I mean if I had gotten to IFR and a professional you know then it would have been like you know jet travel whatever oh so what you're saying is get your pilot's license early I'd say get it get to the point where you're a professional yeah but if you're just like tooling around and 170 tour in your private player doing the G8 that that's motorcycle riders and the stats are very similar to motorcycles well I hope that my mom is not listening to this one because yeah I'm sorry sorry processing sorry Mom sorry Mom that's okay uh know when to stop know when to stop I get we're talking about the balance I suppose between people's health wealth and time some people say that they like to work some people are given a sense of meaning by work which I think is a little bit different than given a sense of purpose but knowing when you should stop working saving yeah it's it's a difficult decision these are difficult decisions and usually I when I talk to friends right like it's always a battle it's an argument right like I actually had conversation guy asked me to come he wanted to ask my advice on something became the advice and he just wouldn't argue with me about being right I'm like I can't you know I mean like I can't I can't tell you that you know you if you're on heroin and you want to give me the heroin argument like I can't tell you you're wrong right like this fulfills you you're saying it's the most fulfilling thing all I can do is point to some stats give a little bit of logic about like all the choices what's the odds that you pick the right one and and that the there it's unlikely that there's not more fulfilling things for you to try if you just exercise those muscles right um but I generally tell my my friends like listen work till the day you die just make sure you enjoy the ride as well don't let it consume you so hey if you want to be the casual occasional opium user okay yeah I mean if it does if it's not if it's not affecting the rest of your life right it's not an addiction but when I look at the totality of some people's lives I'm like this looks just like an addiction it's compulsive looking it's well it's your whole it consumes the rest of your life it [ __ ] up if it's [ __ ] with your ski trips and you're hanging out with your friends and the other travel and time you have a lot of money than you need exactly and uh whatever and well there's no reason right we're just talking about entertainment dollars right we already got survival mode covered right we've covered that number so now now we're talking about what's going on here right now it's interfering with the rest of your life okay so how do you know when to stop um this is individual for every person right and so for me I'll just speak for me is when it interferes with my life so like technology has been great that it hasn't interfered enough with my life and it still affords me things that I want that I cannot have that as opposed as opposed to penis I like to attach for me I like to attach what am I working for because in theory right if I went through the exercise in heaven with God and I had all my experiences and we had a like nice little spreadsheet and we attached all the dollars to them I know exactly when it stopped working and investing exactly and like I got it oh that's good number it's covered it's exactly the number I have enough and I've hit my concept of enough right I have everything I'm gonna get it blah blah blah right all the experience is going to happen and then I'm gonna hit the grave right um for me it's what is it that I don't have now and cannot afford how because the Ark of my life that that I want right and it's one thing um that's it and I it's it's to the point it used to be two things I actually thought I wanted this plane with a bigger range and all this other kind of stuff and I charted it and I was like I will not work I will not waste hours of my life for this experience it's not worth it and I dropped it off the list and it felt really good because I was close getting really close I was like this is great it felt great to shed that obligation like I am not wasting hours of my life for this thing and I was like whatever money that was of going to go to this thing is now going to bigger parties and other things and charity and here you go and that type of stuff right and so that felt really good what's the one thing that's left uh uh yeah that's it like if you're like hey here's your golden ticket to a yacht like a Willy Wonka style you know and you don't have to pay the mate it's not it's not the capex it's the op-x on yachts because I can do that for the rest of my life and I really enjoy it it's the floating thing it's very ostentatious and [ __ ] to say but it's like that thing I really love like I I like travel I'm bougie it's pretty amazing um but even then I'm like you know there are other things I can do besides yachting and I probably would only do it X months a year and maybe even cut that back and find another activity Coast is nice though it's [ __ ] amazing and have you ever gone on the side I did Serbia and all that area like it's Adriatic I mean it it's just it's just amazing um so what you're looking at is a a projection forward what is it that I want to do what do I need to have in order to be able to do the things that I want to do right how far off that am I yes and and the cost right like it doesn't it's not if I was out there digging ditches and it was very painful right and it's very taxing on my time uh the cost of earning the money my money and the time the time yes so if I had to like oh I have to go to a nine to five and it's eight hours or whatever but I don't work a nine to five I trade Commodities it's hyper leveraged right there is some mental stress there's a lot of people you know that are dependent Etc but the yield on my time is pretty fantastic right but you could imagine another Universe in which uh the price that you paid or the cost as you said uh in terms of your sanity if you were wired slightly exactly would be so extreme that it may not be worth it no I could definitely see it not be worth it right there's sometimes like I trade Commodities it's crazy there's is a lot of stress you know it's not stressful for me because I'm just always like I was gonna say you must be built for it if that's the case I think while Traders are all good Traders at last they are like a lot of it selects out of the pool yes because the the most people I've been told need five to seven positive events to make up from one negative event the best Traders are 60 40 if that right so that means they have uh you know the best in the world which I'm not the best in the world but like the best best best best in the world are having like uh uh four bad days for every six and if they need one to seven the emotional math doesn't work out so there are people who are very smart who come in right with six through forty but then the emotional math catches up to them they go crazy and they lose money and they're out of the game right where it's just not worth it they're addicted to drugs or some other Outlet to fix this emotional math that doesn't work right like I like I have lots of shitty days today was a very shitty day right and I'm like okay so bees it you know I mean it be like that sometime like I don't I don't because I'll be optimizing for filmo at every wealth level it doesn't really bother me I'm really happy to be alive and I think everything else is gravy give money to kids and charity early yes so this is this hits a lot of people so like some people might like be too scared to implement die with zero they they might still argue about them principle but one thing that hits a lot of people is um you know that the same laws of physics that govern my body right the fact that most of us reach mental maturity at 28 physical peak maturity of 33 and then we're in plateau and decline every human right there might be some wild exceptions right so if you're at the bestest bestest bestest shape of your life at 33 you'll never be in better shape right technology notwithstanding right so um so and then their ability to um enjoy experiences certain experiences will decline as they age right they have that that same same um lifespan Arc of lifespan deterioration Etc right and they also get the memory dividend right using memory Dev from investing early and so if you live to like 86 or 90 and you die and then you give your money kids you know people say I'm working for my kids what about their inheritance I'm like well what about your [ __ ] kids who you want to give money to a 60 year old 56. like eat a bag of dicks sorry I'm not supposed to say this on this podcast like what the [ __ ] are you talking about that's not thinking about your kids right we want to have Maximum Impact maximum experiences right so they want to go hella skiing they want to enjoy it they want to take their kids on vacation they want to they there are all kinds of experiences they want to have also remembering consumption smoothing correct the dollar amount will be more valuable the earlier you give it to them correct so it's really about what is the most fulfilling time to give them the money and sorry and you being able to enjoy the reflective glow of the money that you've given to your kids while you can still do a thing I agree that's more of a selfish way of doing it but that is part of it right like you get the you get I'm an only child yeah exactly but it's it's part of it right it's part of the decision process but if we're just focused on the children you know we want to have Maximum Impact maximum fulfillment their ability to have the most fulfilling life possible and it's not giving them a bunch of money when they're 60. not kids they might not even be alive yep okay um some some kids do pre-decease their parents unfortunately so if we're really thinking about our kids right like if if an inheritance is to impact them in a positive way and to give them the most fulfilling life and for them to have positive life experiences we had to consider the memory dividend right having a event happen at 30 is a lot more dividends than an event at 60 right we gotta think about their health and their ability to do certain activities or their aptitude or willingness right they don't want to go to a Broadway show at 60 I gotta sit it's too long it hurts my corns whatever I don't want to be in New York the noise bothers me right I just want to hang out and garden when I'm sexy right yeah I think about the Arc of their life and things they want to do um and so the idea that you're you're delaying gratification for your kids that will lead to a lot of no gratification the impact of that gift even if it's a lower amount between in their 30s you know 28 to 30. I recommend between 25 and no later than 33. right um depending on how mature they are et cetera and look at people like well I have a kid he's not mature I'm like listen they are who they are now no amount you know what I mean like are you trying to idiot 33 year old is not going to be a sage 45 exactly so let them have their life you lived your life you know I I literally I spoke to a bunch of people and you know they have these groups that are they're they're very wealthy they meet and I can only talk about what I talked about but I I was like [ __ ] you dude you lived your life let your kid live his life you're trying to control him from the grave is that what you're trying to do you're trying to control him with money like do you want to give them money and have that let them have their ride in their Adventure or not you know not this oh 90 and you're 62. it's just the dumbest [ __ ] thing in the world it's it's not really thinking about your kids right it's just something that culturally has happened the king died and this guy is the new king and whatever and then people started to have their own wealth and they started doing the same thing you know I know all these lands are yours you know and you know maybe I don't want to be a [ __ ] farmer why charity early then uh so charity it's the same thing like I'm Not Gonna Save um these starving kids now I'm gonna wait till I die what is that what is that like is this some sort of tip on way around are you really thinking about the needs of humanity and the people that rode this planet with you is your Ripple now or are you trying to save like people 2 000 years from the future now right if would your um Judgment of this change if the ability of the money to compound to acute a crew no more volume no why for me if there was a fun let's take an extreme example to make a point if there was a fund to save the Jews getting out of the Holocaust you're like no I can get a better return and I can save more people in 2020 like [ __ ] you dude [ __ ] you you know like it's extreme example of we don't have that example it doesn't exist so you know and and also the the impacts on charitable giving particularly in education saving a life a life compounds and does more wonders than any kind of investment you can do so I I also think it's just arrogant that my return is going to be better than your life or these 10 lives or these hundred lives right like I just think it's an arrogant assumption and a false assumption right and and like I'm I'm here riding this planet with these humans and my ripple is now right I want to have an impact now and that investment now has a huge huge huge return that I don't get to see I can't quantify it there's not a bunch of statisticians and you know it has an impact right I'm not just giving money to feel good I'm having an impact but I'm not nobody's giving me a bunch of numbers Etc I just know that the impact on that life is huge right now and so life is urgent life is now [ __ ] yeah last one take big risks early not later why so I've debated this with friends but the bottom line is is that for most people future you has other people and other obligations and you cannot recover as quickly right like I use the example like Opana was like smoking weed and crack and then you know he's President right like it's hard to be smoking for weed and crack now and then you know later in life and be present you can recover from so many things you can [ __ ] around for four years and then go to med school and become a brain surgeon right and you don't have kids other obligations a path that you've dug for yourself that's harder to get out you can reorient yourself and have met your your time billionaire you have a billion seconds right so you have a lot of time to recover reorient yourself and still have a very very fulfilling life the consequences of taking what seems like big risks are not as great because of your ability to heal and recover it's the same thing physically right if I tear something [ __ ] it's gonna take a long time to get a 17 year old tears something like how did it my daughter had uh she got airlifted um out of out of Aspen to Denver Children's right she got this infection and I don't know she was traveling and kids have poorest bones so it went to the back of her eye and it was going to go in her brain they're like your daughter has to go now so they took her out of a small hospital and Aspen whatever she had two surgeries I was bulging out her resting heart rate was 150 560. I'm panicking right so they do the surgery she you know she's out of it I thought this is less time to see my daughter a week later she's like can I go to camp can I go swimming like what the [ __ ] you aliens what are you made of exactly you know Rubber and Magic you know and like when you when you have two kids like I I you know your first kid you're like oh my God I have a fever you're running to the hospital you're yelling and screaming at each other they drop it and fall you're like flipping out over everything right by the second kid you like uh roll them around here they'll be fine it'll be fine right let me be fine and and so but if I felt like that or I get sick like that or if my resting heart rate is 155. you know they're like calling the priest call on the priest right and so this is like your time the the asymmetric aspect sorry about that that is my six o'clock alarm one of the Technologies I use that uh reminds me and prompts me to connect with my wife so you would usually ring her text her what would we even know each other's presence we'll usually maybe do an hour we would try and get an hour in we'll chat with each other we'll drop everything and we'll connect or if we're busy whatever's just like hey baby I love you like I love you too what's going on how's your day right it's cool so one of the Technologies you use is you know when llms and everything it's going to be greater it's going to be great like you're gonna have they're gonna ingest died with zero they're gonna adjust a thousand questions from me um some of the other tools that other people have built on top of it there's going to be llm and you're just gonna be able to ask it questions and it's going to be able to answer like should I do this or whatever well according to the philosophy according to the spreadsheet so-and-so build according to your finances so I can't wait till that happens because that's originally what I wanted I didn't want a [ __ ] book uh it auto die with xero I wanted this app for me to tell me what to do like you don't have a chef and they tell me what to eat I want to think like Bill go on a boat trip or after the boat trip you're going to Vietnam camp this trail hike here stay in this Hut I know you don't like standing Huts but you're gonna love it you know is that you're a hexaco personality profile exactly exactly and then just keep just ideating and giving me the adventure so then when I hit the grave I have all these scars and I'm like I use this [ __ ] thing up I had a great ride but uh going back to this take risk early right like I'm I I Can't Jump the Wake the wakeboard awake right now I can't I can't do I can't do these things and so the the the asymmetric asymmetry of the wrists you know starts to disappear right but early means now like what risk you can take now means early and sometimes everybody always thinks Financial right always thinks Financial I'm like tell the [ __ ] girl you love her first bear your heart take the ride it's probably gonna get broken but that's great you'll learn from it you know sometimes it means that sometimes it means just just make the move what would you say to the people who feel like they want to maximize their life but they are risk-averse in life decisions and job changes and breaking up with partners that are not right for them in finances what would you say to me all right I'm going to say something a little bit different the first thing I would say is [ __ ] the haters because a lot of the times you don't do something it's because you're afraid of being judged by other people a lot of people can stand the Financial Risk or even like the emotional risk or whatever they cannot stand the Whispers And Judgment of people thinking I told you so a lot of people I I tell people this all the time people like success but they love a failure and failure validates their own cowardice right so when you go out and you try the business and think and you fail they're like I don't look like an idiot for not trying myself see Jim Jim over here he failed so I don't have to try that's why I can live this miserable job that I'm afraid to quit or whatever if you go quit you go [ __ ] succeed [ __ ] they're they're exposed their own cowardice is exposed right but I say just go live the adventure like it's not we I think we focus too much I want to podcast and I I you know I respect all these podcasters out there getting ideas out to people summarizing them taking a long-ass blathering boring guy like me making it interesting and putting it out there for people but I want the guys who tried and failed I want the guys like [ __ ] really and then what happened and oh my God those are those are heroes man you know we we always catch the the the we always have we always talk to the salmon who's Upstream spawning you know but we need some of the salmon that like [ __ ] I went the wrong way and I got eaten by a bear yeah I mean obviously you can't talk but like you know like this is what happened when I tried I tried this right you know because there's just learnings in that and there and there's there's a good ride and there's a lot of people who have failed like I wouldn't do anything different right maybe I tweaked the thing or this didn't happen or the bad thing or I would have been nicer to the employee and he wouldn't quit or whatever but like there's learnings in that and that's right the selection effect of of the people who have the most notoriety are the ones that least familiar with failure or at least at least familiar with big failure catastrophic failure which creates a world of people who are successes and only successes talking and giving advice which probably creates a culture Downstream from that of people who are hyper sensitized to failure I've been busted twice after making it you know what I mean I've I've I've gotten divorced worse failure in my life right like I've I've had some huge failures you know and some huge tries and so I'm here on your podcasts people are actually going to listen to me talk my [ __ ] and you know to the person out there you know who's out there who's on the edge or you know if they really think about it like it's it's a lot of it's your fear of being judged and you judge in yourself just do your best that's all you can do get out there take Life by the balls like don't live if you like there is some Romanticism and I don't want to take away from it from the cookie cutter Simple Life there are some people out there who truly enjoy it like the tail end of my life I would love to be a farmer monotony of growing things in the intricacy right but right now I'm I want scars man I want the right I do not want the cookie cutter life I don't waste this ride and so for the person out there who's like cookie cuttering it but like really yearns to like strike out try anything move to the new City chase the girl say I love you first you know what I mean get in shape run the marathon whatever it is right like don't waste your [ __ ] life dude don't do it don't let the [ __ ] Judgment of the haters make you waste your [ __ ] life I love it Bill Perkins ladies and gentlemen if people want to keep up to date with the stuff that you do where should they go oh my God uh my Twitter account is just like chaos but at bp22 uh you know you might follow me and then unfollow me because I'm I'm hot take City but that's that's where you can actually I can actually increase my Dunbar number you know what I mean like you you have a certain limit of social interactions but I can occasionally random and debate with people on Twitter I love to chop it up there it might be an addiction um I'm on Instagram but it's really just kind of like a diary for me to have a memory dividend for my life so I video a lot of random [ __ ] or cool [ __ ] I'm doing highlight reel so that when I'm in my 80s I can be like that [ __ ] was badass this is great wow this is great yeah I remember that remember that you know the memory jars right and so so I'm Bill Perkins on Instagram I'm at bp22 on Twitter uh that's about it you know I'm roaming and winging life just like the rest of you Bill I really appreciate you man I think it works uh very much needed it's a a great counter to a lot of the conversations that we're hearing at the moment about the sacrifice mentality monk mode uh people that are um how do you say justifying their own risk aversion as nobility when it's not it's fear and I I love the fact that there is someone saying swing for the [ __ ] fences yeah just see how far and listen if you want to be a monk mode I'll hire you I hire those people it's like like tiger mom people right like whatever like they raise the kids I'm sorry I know we're supposed to be wrapping this up but you can edit it out the uh the um this whole idea like they're like oh my kid can do this and like they raised these robots and I'm like they'll make great employees for my kids great [ __ ] employees right you just took the soul out of these people and live in fear and then like they'll exchange their whole goddamn life for like what they consider a high salary and a little bit of prestige and a job and I'm like I'll be the one sweating my [ __ ] balls off putting all my money on the line building up a firm and your workers will be helping me get there as foot soldiers and that's where they'll always be as foot soldiers and they can have their boring cookie cutter life so be careful what values you inculcate exactly exactly and so these hustle Bros about like you know I'm gonna [ __ ] do 10 years 15 years in sing sing and then I'm gonna be badass when I'm 35 I'm like dude people on 35 really look back on their 20s like if you ever go hang out with people and you go to dinner um a lot of the conversations about the past [ __ ] they've done like I actually had this plan that um didn't complete because got divorced but we were gonna go live in a different city every summer because I was like you know maybe after 10 years of doing that I'll be an interesting person and people will talk to me and I could have a lot of stories to talk about right but this is almost the exact opposite I'm gonna go in [ __ ] jail become some sort of money making robot trying to become the most uninteresting person in the room it's horrible that's not what humans are humans are here to connect we're wired to connect and enjoy it we're wired to thrive we're the only animal wired to thrive every other [ __ ] animal is just trying to survive don't do that time right Bill Perkins I appreciate you thank you for coming on man thanks for having me what's happening people thank you very much for tuning in if you enjoyed that episode then press here for a selection of the best clips from the podcast over the last few weeks and don't forget to subscribe peace