Video summary
In this discussion, Ana Kasparian reflects on the shifting political landscape following recent weeks of intense discourse, highlighting a stark contrast between how the left and right handle dissenting voices. She observes that while the right welcomes disaffected Democrats with open arms, often forgiving past transgressions to build power through inclusivity, the left seems obsessed with exclusivity and purity. Kasparian argues that this "Purity Party" mentality on the left leads to purging heterodox members rather than engaging them, a strategy she believes is counterproductive for building lasting political influence. She notes her own grounded values prevent her from being swayed merely by who is nice or mean to her, yet she acknowledges that the right's willingness to integrate former opponents is a key factor in their growing strength compared to the Democratic party's struggle with internal cohesion and voter registration trends showing fewer registered Democrats than Republicans. The conversation delves into the paradoxical nature of current political alliances, particularly within Kamala Harris's campaign, which Kasparian finds uncomfortable despite its efforts to lure in Bush-era Republicans like Dick Cheney supporters. She expresses personal distaste for neoconservatives, linking her politicization to their influence during the Bush administration, yet feels forced by party loyalty to support figures she disagrees with while simultaneously criticizing others who are too critical of Trump but not "pure" enough on other issues. Kasparian attributes these behaviors partly to Jonathan Haidt's work on moral foundations theory, noting that the left scores low on loyalty and high on fairness/care, which can manifest as public trashing of allies when they deviate slightly from orthodoxy. She finds it disgusting how prominent figures publicly attack each other in bad faith, a dynamic she refuses to emulate despite facing criticism herself, emphasizing that her approach is rooted in authenticity rather than performative outrage. A significant portion of the dialogue addresses why political migration often flows from left to right but rarely in reverse. Kasparian challenges the notion that deradicalization is impossible, citing examples like David Weissman and Chelsea Handler's role in bridging divides through kindness and conversation. She argues that treating voters who think differently as enemies rather than fellow Americans participating in a democratic process stifles persuasion opportunities. The transcript suggests that casting out individuals for minor ideological deviations creates "politically homeless" people forced into the center or right, effectively shrinking the left's base without gaining new adherents. This dynamic is described by Kasparian as akin to a kamikaze ideology if continued unchecked, where shaving off anyone who doesn't wholeheartedly adopt party dogma ensures only the most extreme remain, ultimately weakening the movement rather than strengthening it. Kasparian also addresses her own evolution in perspective regarding Donald Trump and how she has handled criticism from parts of her audience over several years. She describes this shift as a slow, painful process that naturally filtered out listeners uncomfortable with her changing views, leaving behind an audience willing to engage in good-faith conversations even when opinions differ. While some former supporters have left for programming that makes them feel more comfortable, Kasparian respects the critics who remain because they are open to hearing alternative perspectives and correcting mistakes. She rejects the idea of remaining in an "ideological prison" to appease others, prioritizing honesty about her errors over maintaining a perfect image, though she acknowledges this stance is seen as radical by many internet users accustomed to rigid ideological silos. Ultimately, Kasparian concludes that the left's failure lies in its inability to recalibrate and treat political disagreement with grace rather than fear or betrayal. She believes that if ordinary Americans are viewed as allies instead of parasites, there will be genuine opportunities for persuasion within a healthy democratic process. The discussion underscores how moral foundations like loyalty versus fairness drive these behavioral differences between the two sides, with Kasparian scoring highest in loyalty on Haidt's test and finding the left's lack thereof particularly troubling when it leads to public infighting. Her message is clear: building power requires welcoming people rather than purging them, a lesson she hopes the Democratic party will eventually come to terms with before further losing voters to independent or Republican registration statuses.
Read the full video transcript
after the last few weeks can you see the
incentives of how people slide from the
left to the right this sort of denial by
the Purity party the right is welcoming
with open arms disaffected Democrats
please come
here yeah I do actually uh so if you're
grounded in your values and I I do think
I am you're not going to be seduced by
people who are just nice to you right
like I actually really respect the fact
that the right is welcoming that they
are willing to you know forgive past
transgressions and say Hey you know we
will take you in with open arms not
everyone on the right but generally
speaking that is what I noticed whereas
with the left there seems to be this
weird obsession with exclusivity Purity
and purging people who are you know
heterodox or whatever and so I I've
noticed quite a bit of that on the left
but
I really do value who I am as a person
and I just don't think that I'm going to
change my political views entirely based
on who's mean to me or who's nice to me
but I will say this I don't know if it's
a strategy or if it's just who
right-wingers happen to be but their
willingness to welcome people is
honestly how you build power it really
is and the left just fails to realize
that I don't know why they want to treat
Politics as if it's like this cutesy
little exclusive Club but that's
certainly how they treat it but then
there's also this uh Paradox because you
look at the current Democratic party
like KLA Harris's campaign for instance
and she's like luring in the who's who
of bush era Republicans and I don't like
those folks I I don't like neocons I
think that in fact I became politicized
when uh the neocons were in charge
during the bush uh Administration and
the idea that I now have
to just hold my nose and support kamla
Harris even as she is talking about the
value of having Dick Cheney endorser and
campaign with her it just like grosses
me out so it's like a weird Paradox
because while I'm being trashed pretty
viciously there's like
this insane support for what the
Democratic party is doing in bringing in
never Trump Republicans it's almost like
Trump is at the center of everything it
feels it certainly feels that way yeah
yeah so it's like if you're an enemy of
Trumps then you are
welcome but if you are someone who
believes in a lot of left-wing policies
but you're critical in in certain ways
well you're not pure enough we're going
to purge you we're going to purge you
where does that degree of Purity come
from I I have no idea have you tried to
think about sort of what this mechanism
is this underlying
Dynamic it could be fear right uh fear
of betrayal I think that you know one
thing that has really given me some
clarity about what drives people is
Jonathan Heights work uh when it comes
to moral foundations I love that book I
loved coddling of the American mind too
that was an excellent book as well but
what I appreciated about that is I was
able to learn about my own inherent
biases and also I was able to learn what
you know moral foundations the left has
that leads to certain behaviors and
certain beliefs so the left tends to
score very low on
loyalty and so that that was really
interesting I took the test I don't know
how accurate it is but I scored the
absolute highest in loyalty and so it's
just when I see members of the left
publicly trashing each other like
prominent figures publicly trashing each
other in bad faith specifically it
really disgusts me it genuinely does and
even as all of these various public
figures on the left are trashing me
right now I just I'm not going to do
that on my show like I haven't done that
on tyt I'm not going to do that on tyt
because it just the whole thing grosses
me out it's just not who I am so I think
moral foundations might play a role in
the different behaviors that you're
seeing on the left and the right I
understand what you mean about this fear
and especially the Loyalty point
that I often think that if you know one
of someone's opinions and from it you
can accurately predict everything else
that they believe even though they might
not genuinely believe it you have this
reliable model that kind of projects out
where Anna we don't need to worry about
Anna she was on board with x y and Zed
last time but if there's a little if
you're this sort of perfect round sphere
we know that if we roll you where you're
going to go but if you've got a couple
of little sort of Jinks out of you and a
couple of dents and divots you go well H
actually she she didn't quite agree with
us so much on that so she's like an
unreliable Ally moving forward I'm not
I'm not Soo sure that I actually do
trust her on this thing so rather than
potentially put your faith in someone
who is with you most of the time but not
all of the time it's easy to just cast
you out but even though you said you
know you're not uh your political
allegiance doesn't lie with whoever is
nicest to you uh you can certainly see
the dynamic of how
people would feel put off by the left's
distaste it's all well and good saying I
don't go just where people want me but
it's very hard to stay somewhere where
people don't want you that's 100% true
yeah I I I do think that the right is
winning I think there's a reason why if
you look at voter registration for the
first time there are fewer registered
Democrats in America compared to uh you
know registered Republicans uh but
that's not because they're registering
as Republicans it's because they're no
longer registering as Democrats and just
they're independent voters they consider
themselves independent voters that's a
problem within the Democratic party that
I think they need to come to terms with
and maybe change their behavior so it
stops happening but the thing that's
been less elitist exactly and it's
actually been the most shocking to me
that they are unwilling to recalibrate
in any way ever every single person I
know who I'm friends with from the left
this is probably the number one GR
internally and it's the thing that
everybody has to sort of say quietly
like I can't actually talk about it
fully because even calling out the fact
that there is an elephant in the room is
enough of a problem to cause you to be
casting that the unreliable Ally radar
kicks off one other Dynamic that I
really wanted to get your take on that I
thought is interesting we do sometimes
see people
slide away from the more extreme
versions of the left right there's been
a variety of Art where people have gone
fully from left to right or from left to
Center or whatever we've very rarely
seen people go in the other
direction why do you think that is I
don't think that's necessarily true I
don't think it's to the same extent as
someone going from left to right but I
mean there had been people who you know
claimed that they had been deradicalized
and now they're Democrats right uh I
forget the name of this guy's name was
David Weissman I think it might have
been but he was a hardcore Trump
supporter he was on Twitter and he was
you know tweeting I guess negative
things and Chelsea Handler of all people
decided to be nice to him and she
deradicalized him but it's but like that
goes back to what we were saying right
like for some
people those Dynamics really do mean a
lot to them so if someone is willing to
be kind to you even if they have a
different political opinion and if
they're willing to have a conversation
with you
well there is an opportunity for
persuasion there and I wish the left
overall realized that right these people
are not our enemies I'm talking about
voters here I'm not talking about you
know people in positions of power when
it comes to ordinary Americans these
people should not be viewed as our
enemies because they think differently
than us they should be viewed as our
fellow Americans participating in
something that we're supposed to Value
which is our Democratic process so if we
stop treating them like their Paras and
we actually are willing to have good
good faith conversations with them there
are opportunities for persuasion maybe
there aren't maybe they're not willing
to be persuaded and that's fine but this
idea that we should cut ourselves off
from anyone who thinks a little
differently from us that is ausing
strategy it just is they're certainly
not going to be persuaded if you just
castigate them the second that they try
and talk to you yeah you can disagree
with your own side but if the other side
rejects you too you go okay well I guess
I am politically homeless I am just sat
in the middle now because there isn't
anywhere for me to go it it does seem
oddly like a kamakazi ideology uh for
the future of a party if you continue to
spiral the Purity round and round and
shave off the people who don't
wholeheartedly take on board the things
that you want and uh yeah you mentioned
earlier on um when you guys some of your
audience had thought that you'd pushed
too far on Trump and that that had been
sort of disaffected to them they they'd
felt like it wasn't maybe as objective
previously do you think that the
audience that you've built now is ready
to hear you with an alternative
perspective what what's that being like
this is this has
been you know my Evolution if you want
to call it that has not happened
overnight I mean this has been a
slow painful thing that's been happening
for a few years now and so I think that
the audience m ERS who were not
interested in this Evolution have
already left and they've found you know
programming that makes them feel
comfortable programming that they like
and that's great you know that's their
right the people who have stayed behind
some of them are still very critical but
I really respect them and it's okay that
they're critical I'm willing to take
their criticism because they are willing
to hear me out they are willing to hear
what I have to say they are willing to
hear opinions that might differ from
theirs and I have tremendous respect for
anyone who has that kind of mindset so I
love my audience I'm very grateful for
the audience we have and I'm you know
sad that there was you know a small
portion of our you know audience who
decided to leave but that's their
prerogative and I'm not going
to continue to be in some sort of like
ideological prison uh to appease people
I I want to find what the reality is and
I'm going to get things wrong still but
I also want to be honest about when I do
get things wrong and I want to correct
myself and I want to build the trust
that I feel that for a few years I just
didn't deserve it's a really reasonable
like a a shockingly reasonable take and
the fact that that's kind of a radical
position probably tells us all that we
need to know about how the internet
works in other news this episode is
brought to you by nomatic traveling
should be about the journey not the
chaos of packing that is why I'm such a
massive fan of nomatic they make the
best backpacks and Luggage in the world
the difference in the quality of your
life when you have a proper
well-designed backpack is immeasurable
they've got compartments for everything
your laptop your shoes your sunglasses
it's so well organized that even your
toothbrush will feel important it is
literally like the Marie condo of
luggage everything has its place which
makes traveling more enjoyable it makes
you less late it makes you more
organized best of all their products
will literally last you a lifetime with
their lifetime guarantee so this is the
last backpack that you ever need to buy
and you can return or exchange any
product within 30 days for any reason so
you can buy it completely risk free you
can get a 20% discount off your first
purchase when you go to the link in the
show notes below or head to nomatic
tocom Modern wisdom and use the code
mw20 at checkout get yourself a new
backpack that will change your life at
nomatic docomond wisdom and the code
mw20 a checkout thank you very much for
tuning in if you enjoyed that clip you
will love the full length podcast in all
its Glory which is available right
here go on press it