Why More Time Working Out Doesn't Build Muscle (Do This Instead) | Mind Pump 2930

You might think that working out more will build more muscle, will give you a faster metabolism, will give you better results. But this isn't always true. In fact, often times, in our experience, the opposite is true. Today, we're going to talk about why more time working out doesn't build more muscle and in fact can oftenimes do the opposite. >> We're going to get into it. >> Let's go. >> Yeah. Good conversation. I feel like uh this is one we talk about often because it's so common >> uh for people to um first off it's surprising to people when they hear us discuss this >> big paradigm shifting uh uh equation for people >> 100%. Uh >> I also think it's because we are communicating to a bit of a self- selection bias of people right you have an audience who chooses to listen to a fitness and workout podcast. >> Yeah. So, you typically attract a majority of our listeners, I think, are into or at least wanting to really get into working out if they're not already really into working out. And so, this this conversation, I find, is far more common with our audience than probably the general population. >> Yeah, I'd say there's probably two kinds of people that um that do too much. And by the way, too much doesn't get you there faster. In fact, it doesn't get you there the same speed either. It gets you there slower. And we're going to discuss a little as to why >> uh this occurs uh in the body. But there's two kinds of people that fall into this category. One of them is like what you're saying, Adam, which is, you know, people who are consistent with working out. And so over time, uh they little by they love working out, they're consistent, and little by little they do more and more and more um and they plateau uh or they stop seeing results or progress and they add more work to what they're already doing and still see that plateau. most very frustrating place to be. In fact, that's one of the most frustrating places >> you could be. The other is the beginner who is roaring to go, who's ready to get in shape, super motivated. >> They finally got themselves, you know, like the the hardest lift in the gym. >> Uh I heard this said said the other day and I loved it. The hardest lift in the gym is pulling pulling the front door open, right? The first time, right? >> So, uh it's it's this beginner who's like ready to rock and roll. I'm ready to go. I'm ready to get in shape. I'm sick of whatever. Um and they jump in with both feet. Um, and they do too much. They do more than is necessary, which uh is a formula for disaster. It's a formula for frustration, >> burnout, >> uh, burnout, injury, um, or just, uh, it's just unsustainable. Uh, so, and you know, a lot of people experience this. Uh, I I'd say quite a few people experience this where you place so much effort into your workouts, you're not getting what you think you should get, or worse, you feel like you're going backwards. It's got to be one of the most frustrating places to be because, you know, if you're not working out, you expect to get no results. Like, if I'm doing nothing, if I'm doing what I've always done and I get no body changes in a positive way, like, I'm not going to get mad. Uh, it's not going to be frustrating because I would expect to get no results from doing nothing. But here I am working my butt off. >> Yeah. here I am putting in a lot and I don't feel like I look like I work out as much as I do uh or I'm not getting any results or the results are so slow and so difficult uh that I don't feel like it's worth it and the truth is when you work out right first off it is always difficult right you're you're doing a lifestyle change you're adding something into your life that wasn't there before that you're going to do on a consistent basis okay so that part's difficult but a lot of people when they when they train properly consist consistently properly for the first time. It's shocking uh because they get results that don't match their effort but in the reverse. >> So when I would train clients uh and you guys have had similar experiences, I know you've expressed this uh when I'm doing everything right and we're hitting it the right way, they come to me and they go, "It feels like I'm barely putting any effort in for the results I'm getting." >> Yeah. >> It's really weird. Why is my body changing? I actually had clients sit me down and go, "Okay, what's going on here?" I know. >> Why am I progressing the way I am? uh where I used to work so much harder and it feels like I'm doing barely anything. Like what's going on? >> It'd be like the end of the workout and my client would just look at me and be like, "Okay, what's next? We're done. What else? What else?" And then no, that's it. That's [clears throat] all we're doing today. And you feel great and they feel energetic and they want to do more, but no, >> guess what? You're going to come back and we're going to do it again. >> Well, this the smallest amount of novelty and stress will cause an adaptation. So you don't need the and and and the larger the stress not the stress and novelty does not equal more results. >> No. >> And so if I can if I can reap some benefits from very minimal stress uh and novelty then that's the goal should be just to do a little bit of that and to keep doing a little bit more and a little bit more so I can continue versus the way people come into it. uh especially when they're riding that high of motivation because they need to make change and they're just getting started. It's a New Year's resolution. They got a goal in 6 months, whatever the thing is. >> And so they're highly motivated and it causes them to uh swing too hard. >> There's and and versus trying to make a good connection and see the ball. It's like they just grip it, rip it as hard as they can and end up not making contact, not seeing the results they want to see. And it's because they're overreaching and they're applying too much novelty, too much stress for their body to adapt. >> So, we need to clarify because if you're listening to this, you've never heard us explain this before, it's going to sound very confusing. It probably be really confused right now. It doesn't make any sense. So, uh I'm going to uh kind of illustrate what's happening here. So, there's two two things. Uh there's two types of activity or exercise uh or two general categories. Now, there's more than this, but generally speaking, it is good to move and be active every day. Okay? So, we're not talking what we're not saying is you you move minimally. That's not what we're saying. Okay? Movement is good. Not sitting down all day long is good. What we're talking about is a workout. Okay? A workout is not supposed to be all your activity. A workout is designed to send a signal to get your body to adapt in a way that you're trying to get it to adapt. Okay? So, when I do a workout, I'm like, I'm trying to get stronger or I'm trying to improve my stamina. I'm trying to build muscle. I'm trying to uh get my bo metabolic rate in a better position so I can burn more body fat. So that's the goal with a workout is to to send a signal to get my body to adapt. Activity is just activity. Activity is just moving. And if you look at the data on activity, moving throughout the day uh in a moderate to low intensity way is very good for you in comparison to not moving. Okay? So you should definitely move every single day. But when it comes to working out, people do too much. And here's why. So when you exercise, when you work out, okay, when you're trying to send a signal, that signal is sent because there's a stress. That's the signal that's being sent. I'm training my body. My body becomes stressed by the training. So I go lift heavy weights. I go train with a heavy weight. My body says, "Okay, we need to adapt and get stronger because we need to be able to handle the stress a little bit better." Or I go challenge myself with running. Let's say I want stamina. My body says, "Okay, we need to adapt in a way so that this is no longer stressful. I need to get better at this stress so that it's no longer a stress later on." Now, what happens over time as you get stronger, you don't stick with the same weight. You add weight, right? And you you send that stress signal again so your body can continue to adapt. And this is why over time you build muscle, get stronger, boost your metabolism, get stamina, all those amazing things. But there's another side to this, which is we have to balance that with your body's ability to recover. Mhm. >> Okay. Uh if we if we go too far, we don't adapt. We only heal. Uh in fact, if you go too far, you don't even heal. Uh if you go real far and you go too hard, like extreme too hard, your body doesn't even have a chance to heal and you can really hurt yourself and get sick. I don't think a lot of people are going that far. Although fitness fanatics can definitely step into this place. What's happening with most people is that what they're really doing is they're sending a stress. They're creating some damage. They're allowing their body to heal, but it was too much for their body to adapt from. This is called the breakdown recovery trap. We have something cool for you. We have a program called MAPS 15 minutes. It's 15 minutes a day. And in the episode, we talk about why this is such an effective way to work out for most people. So, here's what we're going to do. You buy Maps 15 minutes. you get another program for free called MAPS anywhere which is an atome or anywhere training program. So it's buy one get one free. It's at mapsboggo.com. Now this episode is brought to you by a sponsor Legion supplements. So these are high performance supplements. These are great supplements for those of you that are serious about your fitness. They have protein powders, they have creatine, they have multivitamins, fish oil, and more. Their pre-workout pulse is one of my favorites. One of the best pre-workouts I've ever used. The Legion has third party testing. Everything that is on the bottle is in the bottle. So, what you see on the label has been tested to be in the bottle. And they list the doses of every ingredient. And they only use databacked ingredients. They don't pixie dust or use weird things just because they're cool. They only use stuff that has been shown in data to have efficacy. Legion is one of the best supplement companies in the world. We're very proud to be working with them. And if you go through our link, you get yourself a discount. Go to byleion.com/mindpump. Use the code mindpump and you can buy 1 get one 50% off if you're a new customer. And if you're a returning customer, you get 20% cash back. All right, here comes the show. Okay, so breakdown recovery trap looks like this. I go to the gym. I train really hard. I get really sore. Soreness goes away. I go back to the gym. I I causes stress. I get really sore. I go back to the gym uh you know after the soreness goes away and I do it again. But I never improve. All that happens, I get sore, I sweat, and then I I heal. We'll call recovery healing. Then I come back and I'm in the same place. Adaptation is above and beyond uh recovery. So, you know, to not get too complex, there's some crossover, but really uh adaptation is above and beyond. So, healing gets you back to where you were before. So, let's say I'm at a 10. I go to the gym and I beat the crap out of myself. Now, I'm an eight in terms of, you know, my strength and movement because I'm sore. Healing gets me back up to a 10. Adaptation gets me up to a 10 and a half or 11. >> And it's the adaptation process that [clears throat] we're after. And most people do too much. Okay. By the way, it doesn't just have to be the breakdown recovery trap. Maybe I do too much and I still adapt. Uh but I don't adapt as much as I could have. >> Yeah. >> Because I still did too much. This is >> maximizing that sweet spot. >> That's right. That's 100%. I think this is difficult for the average person because how to gauge that because um it's a bit of a moving target because there's also other variables that could cause this to be too much, [snorts] you know, like so one week uh it may it's maybe it's the the right amount or the right dose. Uh then the following week, uh something happens at work. I have two nights of bad rest, had a day or two in a row where I missed macros and protein. And like now that context is different. It changes. Now too much can be uh less than what the previous week was. And so this this is the part I think that can be >> challenging people. And this is why I know u I'm sure people are so tired of hearing me say the my goal is to do as little as possible to elicit the most change. But in my opinion, you are always better with practicing consistency and lean le weighing towards doing too little than you are trying to do as much as you possibly can. As long as you're consistent, right? You're showing up to the gym. I would rather you show up, just go through the movements at m moderate intensity, moderate volume >> than go and feel like you need to crush it every single time because that person actually will end up with lesser results than the person who just keeps on going and and is chipping away and modest workouts and a lot of times they go there and they just kind of practice the movements. they don't really push intensity and then when they feel really good and they're well rested and they ate well and they they're feeling strong, okay, maybe I'll push it a little bit today and then back off. It's like it's wild how little we have to do when you work with your body. And I think we're fooled by a lot of the results that we see by these bodies on social media and these bodybuilders and bikini athletes that are enhanced and genetic anomalies and and they live and they live they eat rest work out is their full-time job >> and we're average moms or dads who have their careers that have other stresses and don't work out and sleep and like a different game for you. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, that mentality really is the antidote to what you were talking about earlier about somebody who's putting all the work in. And there's nothing more frustrating than working really, really hard, getting nowhere, and even a lot of times setting yourself back to the point where it's like, you know, do I even attempt? I know this is good for me, but I'm I'm not getting anywhere. It's so frustrating. I'm just going to give up. 100%. And and by the way, what you listed earlier, Adam, that when you said one week is this and one week is that, you're talking about the average person. >> Yeah. >> Uh the average person does not have perfect weeks of sleep, recovery, diet, and stress week in and week out. >> That's right. >> The average person has weeks that go up and down, seasons >> that go up and down. Um and so what you do, what you want to do is you want minimal dose for maximum effect. That's what you always want. Why? Because that leaves you room for life. Yeah. If I do maximum dose for maximum effect, uh then when life hits me, which it will, that dose is too much and now my body isn't adapting. It's not changing. So, you know, the question is, how do I know >> if I'm doing the right amount? It's actually not hard to tell. So, this is where people get a little bit confused. Like, how do I know I'm doing the right amount? Here's how you know. You're getting stronger. >> Yeah. >> You have more energy and you feel better. Here's how you don't know. I'm sore all the time. That does not mean you had a good workout. I'm tired. that does not mean you had a good workout or the scale necessarily keeps moving down. That doesn't necessarily mean you're doing the right things. Oftentimes, in fact, people the scale will go down because people are dramatically reducing their their food intake, dramatically increasing their activity, not even realizing they're losing 50% of their weight and muscle and setting themselves up for a really nasty plateau and a rebound later on because now they have a slower metabolic rate. Uh, and they gain all the weight back except the weight they gained back wasn't half muscle, it was all fat. So now they're in a position where they weigh as much as they did when they first started except they've lost a significant amount of muscle. So you know and I look we we trained people for years um with this method and it was it was always it was always interesting to me. It was e I always had to convince people in the beginning but after the third or fourth week I no longer had to convince them. It was always that way. It was like if I had the fitness fanatic that showed up that said hey you know I've been plateauing. I'm working out five days a week real hard. I'm doing all this cardio. I'm doing all these things. why isn't my body progressing? And I look at their routine. I go, "Cool. We're going to cut your training volume down in half and I'm going to eliminate 80% of your cardio." They looked at me like I was crazy. They're like, "Wait, hold on. I'm plateauing and you're telling me to do less and that's going to give me better results. Am I crazy?" So, I'd have this conversation with them and luckily I can be very convincing. And I'd say, "Okay, trust me. Let's try this and see what happens." And then after three or four weeks, they'd come back and be like, "This is weird." That's always what I would hear. This is really weird. How is it that my body's improving? I'm doing so much less. And I said, "Because now we're not uh overwhelming your body with stress. We're not working with your body. Your body can finally adapt." Uh I remember when uh I trained Doug. So Doug's our producer here at Mind Pump. He's one of our business partners. But Doug started off as as my client, somebody with a history of exercise. He knew how to strength train. He lifted weights for years. He didn't come to me as a total beginner. He came to me because he was referred by somebody that I knew. And his idea was that we were going to work out four days a week. This was the idea. He thought, "Yeah, four days a week strength training, that's probably what I need to do." And I said, "No, actually, I'm only going to lift weights twice a week." And I remember Doug looking at me like I was crazy. And I convinced him. I said, "Let's give it a shot. See what happens." And he got in the best poss the best shape of his entire life, stronger than ever. And I remember those early conversations. In fact, this is what got uh, you know, started Mind Pump. Doug thought it was so mind-blowing. Said, "We got to do something about this and create a program around this because this is wild. I can't believe I'm getting so fit and strong doing so little." But that's how it feels when you do it right. But again, I want to be clear. It doesn't mean it's easy. You still need to be consistent. It's just a lot easier than doing it wrong. Doing it wrong is really tough. >> The crazy part though, it's it's actually uh a lot easier to be consistent when you don't [clears throat] beat yourself up with that. One of the hardest still to this day, >> one of the hardest things for me to motivate myself to go get up and go to the gym the next day is when I overreach the day before and I'm like, I'm feeling it. I'm so I'm fried. I'm sore and achy and I'm like I went too hard too much and like going back and doing it again. Uh it makes it that versus leaving the gym feeling like I got a nice pump, a nice workout, feeling like the next day feel good like I worked out the day before but not feeling like it's impeding my movement. And so once you kind of figure out this sweet spot, it it it feels so much more like this this beautiful delicate dance than it is like this this thing that you're going to muscle. Yeah. This sledgehammer or this thing you're going to muscle your way or force your way to your goal. And when when people figure this out and they unlock this uh the working out part becomes far more therapeutic and enjoyable and it much easier to be liong 100%. So all right let's talk a little bit about >> what this looks like. So I'm going to go through the data >> uh on strength training. So the workout part we're going to talk about today is strength training. Uh now the reason why we're going to talk about strength training and not other forms of working out is because when it comes to minimal uh dose maximum effort strength training fits that perfectly. So other forms of adaptation stamina endurance uh flexibility skills training it actually requires a larger dose uh to to reap those benefits. Strength training is remarkable. You really don't need a lot at all to get your body to really start to to build strength uh and build muscle. The re other reason why we're going to talk about strength training is because of all the forms of exercise, it's the one that produces the most aesthetic changes. Okay? So, most people listening, okay, yes, you want to get healthy, you want to move better, you want to feel better, but not at the top, if you're being honest with yourself, is I want to look good. I want to look like I work out. Strength training is the aesthetic form of exercise. It's the one that produces visible changes to the body through the building of muscle, through the boosting metabolism, and through the fat loss that occurs through uh through strength training. So, here's what the data shows for the average person. So, the average person to reap the vast majority of benefits uh from strength training, you're looking at about two days a week, okay? About two days a week in the gym will produce the vast majority of all the benefits you could ever enjoy from strength training. Now, notice I didn't say uh two days a week gets you uh almost as fast to your goals. That's not what I meant. That's not what I said. What I said was it'll get you the vast majority of benefits. In other words, you'll get so far with two days a week, you're probably going to be very satisfied. And some of you are going to want to take it to the next 5% level and then you can add a third day or maybe a four day. But most people are like, "Look, I just want to look sculpted. I want to have some muscle. I want to feel good." Two days a week does that. But there's a better way to do this. Rather than doing two, let's say 45minute workouts a week, what we found that's even better is instead of doing two 45minute workouts a week to do a little bit every day. >> So instead of 45 minutes or an hour twice a week, you do 15 minutes a day. Now, why is that so much better? Let's talk about that for a second, fellas. Why is 15 minutes a day better than two longer workouts? What is it about doing a little every day? >> It's you're creating a habit just like brushing your teeth or doing something else. something that ends up being it's a smaller commitment, right? So, it's a smaller time commitment that you build consistency around doing every single day and then it just becomes a thing that you do just like brushing your teeth or combing your hair or whatever the things that you do every single day. And getting someone to work out for an hour at a time, whether it be every single day or twice a week, becomes a larger commitment and leap for most people. And so, and not only that, but I I just I think it's a more appropriate way for the average person to actually manage the stress, too. It's uh, you know, a a 30 minute or I mean a 60-minute workout, 45 60 minute workout sometimes can easily tip somebody over in with that stress bucket that we were talking about earlier versus if they're just doing two exercises a day, it tends to manage that a lot easier for them because you could get you can get after kind of two work two exercises and be done and still not really overdo the intensity because it's just two exercises. >> And then that way too, you get that same amount of volume because you spread it out throughout the week. So it's not like you're missing out on, you know, the volume aspect of it, but you're allowing your body that amount of time extra to recover between. So when you go to approach the next workout, it's like you got more energy, you got more focus. Um, and yeah, it removes a lot of barriers in terms of time restraints. For our from our experience, it's easier for the average person to find 15 minutes a day than it is for them to find 45 minutes or 60 minutes twice a week. It's just easier. So that's number one. Number two, you're going to miss workouts. Okay, everybody, fact. You're going to miss workouts. You're not going to be perfect. If you do two workouts a week and you miss one workout, 50% of your workouts is gone. >> If you're doing 15 minutes a day and you miss two workouts, you've still done a majority of those workouts. You've still done more than had you missed one of the other workouts. Then you guys are talking about uh fatigue and stress. So, there is a total stress throughout the week, but then there's cumulative within the workout. So when I'm doing two exercises, I don't get that cumulative stress like I would if I did all of it or most of it in a single workout. So in our experience, what we're finding is when people do uh like our MAPS 15 program, which is 15 minutes a day, they get better results than even when they were doing the same amount of volume in two workouts. Yeah. >> They get better results. They're more consistent more effectively. >> They're stronger, uh better fat loss, everything works a lot better. So a little bit every day. Here's the other uh thing I like about you talked about the habit uh building. Working out uh does make the rest of the day better. Okay. In the short term, you get a little energy boost. You feel good if it's appropriate. Uh makes you happier. Uh when I when I we've observed with people who do 15 minutes a day is that the rest of the behaviors later on uh tend to reflect the fact that they feel better and the fact that they worked out. So what tends to happen naturally is diet gets a little bit better. they have more energy and they move more on those days as well which of course contributes to the fact that to to their goals which is which is great. >> Yeah. And I this can come off like we are speaking to the audience that is just trying to get started or just start to build consistency >> uh and beginner but this is how I train. I mean, this I I typically, even though I I dip in and out of all the different types of like ways that we program, I find myself more consistently training in this kind of 15minute style. It just work. It's so conducive for my lifestyle. Uh it's easy to commit to and I'm so blown away by how well my body even as an advanced consistent type of lifter, whatever category you would throw me in. Uh and and so I just want to make that clear because I think sometimes people hear this message and they go because we've been labeled as this. Oh, those guys are great for beginners. You know what I'm saying? It's like no, this is like even if you're somebody who's been training for a really long time, this is incredible. >> Here here, okay, here here's how this would work. The same protocol would work fine for a beginner, would also work fine for someone who's advanced. Here's what it would look like. So, we'll take imagine a guy who's totally deconditioned, right? He hasn't worked out for years, works at a desk job. Uh, and today's workout calls for uh, squats and bench press. Let's say squats and bench press. So, when he goes to do squats, uh, look, it's he just he's he's doing 100 pounds. 100 lbs is all he could do because he's just getting started. And when he's bench pressing, maybe he can bench press, you know, 60 lb or something like that. He's just getting started. Here's the advanced version of that guy. Same workout. He's squatting 300 lb, but he's bench pressing 200 lb. Okay, that's the difference. The workout's the same. He's just lifting more weight. >> So, that the progress is built in by how you scale the weights that you're using. It's not that he needs to work out longer. >> Yeah. >> It's that he's lifting more weight. So, when you see someone who's training this way and it who's advanced, they're just a lot stronger. That's all. When you see a beginner who's training this way, they're just not as strong. And that's how this workout works uh for both uh categories. Here's a second point with this. So, you're like, "Okay, I'm doing two lifts a day. Which exercises do I do?" The ones that matter. >> Yeah. >> You do the exercises that matter. Which, by the way, this is another thing, speaking to my own personal experience that I have found that's interesting is that >> it it forces me to choose those ones. >> Yeah. >> When I when I would go to the gym for an hour, I'm guilty of this. I'm guilty of starting my workout with one or two compound lifts and then the rest of the hour are like machines I like to do or kind of these [snorts] other some Yeah. isolation exercises. But really, when I were to if I were to to criticize my own programming and workout, you know, the the real heavy lifting or the real movers and body composition change that I'm doing is really in the first couple lifts and the rest are kind of fillers for the rest of that time there. And so when you distill a workout to just two exercises a day, you're you forced in a way. And obviously we programmed it so you would be if you were following our program, we did it for you. But I mean, even as somebody who's choosing my exercise, I just choose the two best lifts, which are compound lifts. And so I have found that I like it for that reason, too, is I kind of cut out all the fluff totally >> in my workouts, and I'm literally doing the things that are the biggest bang for your buck. >> 100%. So, uh, compound lifts, compound lifts are exercises that require two that are moving two joints. They're called big gross motor movements. Most bang for your buck. So, an example is like I want to work out my quads. I could do leg extensions or barbell squats. Well, barbell squats for the same time spent, you know, same amount of sets. Way more effective at not just building my quads, but my hamstrings and my glutes. Whereas the leg extension will do a little bit to my quads, nothing for my hamstrings uh and my glutes. So, pick compound lifts when you're working out this way. Here's the third thing. Don't train to failure. Lifting to failure. So, if people aren't familiar, lifting to failure is you lift a weight until you can't lift it anymore. So, I do 10 reps and that's it. I can't do an 11th rep. So I have to train to failure. This is one of the uh and by the way the data now we've got great studies and data on failure training versus uh what we call leaving two in the tank. Right? So the comparison would be 10 reps would be failure versus just doing eight reps. So eight reps with the same rate that I could weight that I could do 10 reps versus doing all 10. Okay? So one of them I'm doing two more reps but I go to failure. Then when I do eight and I stop two reps short. Here's what we find in the data. In the short term, no difference. in the short term, same amount of muscle, same progress. As you extend that out, the going to failure crowd, their body starts to get fried. Uh, and they start to overreach. So, failure is too much intensity for most people most of the time, and it doesn't produce better results. So, the third point here with this is you don't train to failure. Now, you train hard, but you you stop all of your sets two reps short of failure, and you'll get better results, far better results uh that way. took me a long time for me to figure this piece out cuz there's this >> there is this almost addiction to somebody who's trained this way. Uh to want to push that way cuz you you feel the pump, you feel the soreness, you feel like I can do more. It [clears throat] took a lot of discipline to go I to to back off of that. But the results were so much better when I when I learned to do this. And that doesn't mean there's never a place for that. It's just a majority of your training should should look like this. And especially if you're just getting started. You're just getting started. You're going to see strength gains uh pretty continually for a while just by getting good at the the the exercises, eating what you're supposed to eat, focusing on rest, and then even the advanced lifter if you're scaling down to something like this, like pulling back on those failure training days makes a massive difference. >> So, here's what we did. We have a MAPS 15 program. It's 15 minutes a day. By the way, in that program, there's a version that requires almost no equipment. And then there's a version we're using free weights. So, you can do either one, free weights or the one that requires almost no equipment. I believe it's a suspension trainer in it. And then we have another program called Maps Anywhere, which can be done anywhere, which requires almost no equipment as well. So, here's what we're doing because of this episode. If you get one, you get the other one for free. So, buy one, get one free. You get MAPS 15. It's an everyday program almost every day, six days a week, 15 minutes a day. After you're done, you have maps anywhere to follow. It's this wonderful combination of programs that for most people is going to produce some of the best results that they've ever had. So, it's buy one get one free. You go to mapsboggo.com to get that. You can also find Mindpump on Instagram. If you want to talk to us, go to Mindpump Media. We'll see you there. >> [music] [music]