Video summary
The interview delves into the profound lessons learned from working alongside Madonna for over three decades, highlighting her unparalleled work ethic and passion as foundational inspirations. A key takeaway described is her ability to identify incredible talent early on, whether in painters, designers, or musicians like Freda Ko, effectively acting as a "greatest identifier" who surrounded herself with the world's most extraordinary people. Beyond mere identification, Madonna fostered an environment where there were no walls around thoughts and no self-imposed constraints; she refused to be bucketed into specific departments by record labels, instead encouraging a fluid approach that allowed for cross-pollination between technology, music, art, and innovation. This lack of limitation enabled her team to explore new avenues, such as integrating tech with musical distribution long before it became industry standard, proving that fresh perspectives often yield the best results when one approaches projects like a blank canvas without prior context.
The discussion further explores how Madonna's influence extended beyond music into film production through the creation of a dedicated film company under her management. Recognizing that traditional labels would have siloed an artist into specific genres, she and her partner decided to build their own infrastructure to support independent producers who needed financial backing for legal fees and back-office operations. This initiative led to significant projects like *Twilight* and *Percy Jackson*, demonstrating a unique business model where the label took on substantial risks to nurture diverse storytelling. When Madonna transitioned into managing her career, this creative rapport continued as she embraced provocative visual ideas from directors like Chris Cunningham and Jonas Aarland for albums such as *Ray of Light*. Her openness to "crazy" concepts allowed these artists to take their work to the next level, creating a dynamic synergy where mutual inspiration drove artistic evolution rather than stagnation.
Perhaps the most striking aspect of Madonna's legacy discussed is her refusal to celebrate past victories or dwell on achievements, choosing instead to treat every day as if it were brand new. Unlike many who might high-five themselves for previous successes, she does not sit well with her history but constantly pushes forward, a trait that has inspired others in the industry to defy odds and reinvent themselves over decades. This relentless drive is framed not just as maintaining longevity but as actively fighting through challenges to break ground for future generations of artists who can now say they are following in her footsteps because she proved it was possible. Her journey serves as a testament to the difficulty of sustaining such a career, emphasizing that true success comes from continuous effort and adaptation rather than resting on laurels. Ultimately, Madonna's approach teaches that by not celebrating wins but immediately starting anew, one can maintain relevance and creativity throughout an entire lifetime in the entertainment industry.
Read the full video transcript
I'd love to spend a little bit of time
on what you've learned from Madonna.
This is an older variety piece, but the
quote here that's attributed to you is,
"She mentored me and by working so hard
pushed me to work so hard. I didn't know
until she grabbed me by the hand
and said, "Let me show it to you." And
it goes on and it goes on. But what did
you pick up from Madonna? What are the
key sort of learnings?
>> I mean, there's some clear learnings and
there's stuff that with I'm 36 years
next to this woman. Yeah.
>> And there's things that when you look
back, you go, "Okay, you know, I got
that like people who think about things
that I got that from my brother or my
mother or my
>> There are things that I didn't realize I
was getting the whole time." So, there's
both. And the front part is pretty, I
think, obvious. You know, her work ethic
is not to be believed. Her commitment to
her craft not to be believed. her
passion for
just the greatest gifts of whether it's
through the books that she's reading or
through the art that she's finding or
the people that inspire her or the
designers or she's so surrounded herself
with a collection of some of the most
incredible people in the world and she
identified them. By the way, she is the
greatest identifier. She found these
amazing talents early and and was able
to whether either could they be painters
or Freda Ko or they could be designers
or musical people like she's an
incredible finder of talent. I think the
thing that has really affected me the
most is
that she
doesn't see any kind of
there's no walls around her thoughts.
There's no, "Oh, I can't do that."
>> Right. In terms of constraints, right?
>> Yeah. Even going back to my first
experience at Maverick Records.
If you went to any record label,
they probably would have they would have
put me in a compartment. There's the R&B
department, there's a jazz department,
the rock department, reggae department,
pop department, hip-hop department. And
you're oh, what department are you in?
And they and they sort of bucket you
into these things. And I think that when
I look back and I go, how did I not
really bucket myself? I went from this
to this to that to that to that. And I
think it's it's really just being around
her has allowed me to never think in a
limited way.
>> Mhm.
>> And they all work together. A lot of the
stuff I do on technology has allowed me
to bring that into my musical world and
to understand how these things work
together or the relationships. And
they're so handinand. And of course a
few decades later now people understand
that but at the time it was so it was it
was it was very much like what are you
doing this tech thing is crazy and
you're not doing innovation is
innovation and how we can distribute
music or how we market and vice versa
all the stuff from music is you know
when you when you're launching a new
company you have you know these founders
are rock stars in my mind every founder
I invest in I look at them like they are
the rockstar I go that person has music
they want to share of the world. They
have their album and my job is to
identify that artist, that founder
before everyone else maybe identifies
them. And my job is to help you reach
that audience. How do we tell the story?
How do we reach the base of your
audience? How do we grow your audience?
You know, what's your first single?
What's your second single? I still work
in that kind of process, which is very
musical in my mind. We're going to spend
a good amount of real estate on on the
tech. But before we get to it, I want to
take a moment to explore the the terrain
of film and how you ended up executive
producing Twilight
and and all the rest because as as you
mentioned in a different environment
with a different label, you would have
been tightly siloed and you wouldn't
have had that ability, right? How did
you end up with the foray into film?
>> I'd been signing bands for a long time
and running the record label and I
thought, well, why don't we do a film
company as well? And Madonna and I were
really in a good groove together and
thought, let's just let's just start
this film company.
>> Why did that come to mind?
>> I don't really recall that. I just
recall thinking about how people do it
differently. And so again, I didn't have
context. The best thing sometimes is to
have zero context. Sometimes fresh is
okay. Sometimes having a blank canvas.
And with films, I had a blank canvas. I
didn't know how it worked,
>> but I knew I wanted to make some films.
>> And I So I had this idea of
bringing in a bunch of producers under
one roof.
>> And they were all independent producers.
And the idea was is I'll bring them in
and you know house them and and give
them support and pay for a lot of the
legal things that cost money when you're
independent is it's a lot on you,
>> right? All the back office, all of that
stuff.
>> We'll take all that on. We'll help you
and then we'll work on these projects
together. And we had like a lot of
producers that I if I was to to pay for
them, I couldn't have afforded it. But
we did it that way. and and out of that
came a lot of films and a lot of
Twilight and and Percy Jackson, a few
others that I was very lucky to be part
of. The guy who ran it, Mark Morgan, was
really good at it. But there were a lot
of complications
and I was at that same moment that we
were that it started to take off. I
picked up Madonna as manager with my
partner at the time, Angela, and I took
on Confessions, which was the pretty
massive tour that year, and I think the
biggest selling record of that year. So,
as a I don't know how old I was back
then, but that was a major
responsibility for me.
>> Hard to ride both of those horses at the
same time.
>> Just that alone, just Madonna at that
moment in time for someone I had not
been a music manager for, you know, and
anything near that level. And so to take
that on and to, you know, work on all
things the tour and the album and all
that.
>> And for people who have no context on
music at all, what does a music manager
do in that type of situation?
>> It's a tricky question because no one
manager is the same. Everyone's
different.
>> I guess what was your umbrella of
responsibilities? When Madonna started
working on Ray of Light, I found the
producer, William Orbit, but I was not
managing her. I was her partner at the
record label, Maverick Records, and not
her own, not Warner Brothers, which is
where she was. She was on War Brothers,
but I was just we were just friends and
working together, but I fed ideas. I
found the director, Yonas Aarland. And
so I was creatively really working on
this project called Ray of Light. So
we're already building a creative
rapport and on music Stefon Sidaway the
director introduced me to a producer
named her ways gave me a demo I loved it
and I gave it to Madonna and I ended up
becoming music. So I found on those two
albums I really even though I wasn't
managing her I was creatively helping
here and there bring in some ideas.
>> Mhm.
>> So we already had a rhythm on the
creative side. Now, there are some
managers that don't do any creative and
there are some that are very creative,
but I was coming from the creative point
of view on ideas, ideulating. Here's
here's things we could do. Here's things
we could build. So, I think I think for
me as that's the management that I am. I
I'm more creative. When I'm working with
someone, I I'm I'm sort of in it. And
there are other managers I've worked
with who they really just they don't do
the creative but they do an incredible
job managing everything keeping you know
putting together the tour but they're
not in there going what if we did this
of you know what if we there's different
kinds of managers I'm for creative for
example when I showed her Yonas Arland
did a video for Prodigy which is a band
I signed and it was really provocative
and I just showed it to her like this
guy this is crazy and she goes he's
doing my first video or or he's doing
that like you You know, I showed her
there's a a guy named Chris Cunningham.
He made a song called Come to Daddy by
Ax Twin, which is really insane. It's a
$30,000 video. I just showed it to her
just to show her this. Look at this
crazy thing. And she's like, "That guy's
doing that video." So, she had Chris
Cunningham do Frozen, which is an
incredible video. And she had Jonas do
Ray of Light. So, it was just a really
great back and forth. We had really
great energy together that that she she
was open to my craziness and and then
she would take it to the next level.
>> What and and this is this is my even
when I was very very young and everybody
knew Madonna. I was constantly impressed
by her longevity and ability to
seemingly reinvent herself. And I'm just
wondering why you think she has been so
consistently good at that over decades.
I mean, it was the first example that I
remember even as a young pretty young
kid be marveling over and I'm just
wondering if you could add any any color
to that. She doesn't sit
well on her past.
She's not high-fiving herself.
>> [laughter]
>> She's not really a Oh my god, I've done
all these. She's just keeps it moving
forward. Yeah, I think that that's a
that is, you know, part of the
inspiration for continually
trying to move forward myself is I'm
have a front row seat or shotgun to this
incredible journey of this woman who
just continually
defies all the odds and
fights the fight. It is not easy. It
it's not just like it's not that she's
maintained or stayed around. It's
actually that she's had to fight her way
through it a lot. She's breaking ground
for a lot of other people who are coming
behind her who can say, "Well, Madonna's
done it. I can do it." But it is no easy
feat. There is a lot of a lot of
to deal with.
>> And I think it comes from she just
doesn't celebrate her accomplishments.
She just starts like it's a brand new a
brand new day.