Why Live Sports Is Marketing’s Biggest Growth Engine ft. NBCU CMO, Jennifer Storms

Just be cautious about getting too comfortable. Take the risk. Be willing to expand your horizons. Be willing to think differently. In our industries, in marketing, nothing is forever. But go try things and go get new experiences because I would not be half of the CMO I am today if I did not have that experience at PepsiCo underneath my belt. >> Hi everyone and welcome to the Marketing Vanguard podcast. I'm Jenny Rooney with AdWeek and it is my pleasure today to be joined by Jenny Storms. She is the chief marketing officer for NBC Universal Television and Streaming. Jenny, welcome. >> Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here today. >> Well, it's great to have you. It's always lovely to meet new CMOs and obviously even doubly uh fun when it's when it is somebody with my name. So, thank you so much for being here. I I uh I know this is uh a little bit long time coming, so I'm I'm glad we're able to find time. And listen, um no rest for the weary. We uh continue to live in an era where marketing is just completely transforming before our eyes. Uh but by the way, it's actually transforming at the hands of some of the the most innovative um CMOs on the planet. And that's what I try to get into in the podcast because it's as much about what's happening to CMOs and as much as what they should and can be doing to drive the practice forward to drive the narrative forward and frankly to harness a lot of the tools that are at their disposal now to be even bigger assets in the seauite as business growth drivers. So please tell me a little bit about yourself. I'd love for you to kick it off by telling me and our listeners something about you that maybe people wouldn't get from looking at your LinkedIn. >> Sure. So, my story is a little bit of a if you can't beat them, join them story. I actually uh grew up with the dream of being a Olympian, uh a downhill skier. So, from age four to 16, that was my life. That was everything that I did. And not many people know this. I don't speak about it much, but I actually was afforded the great opportunity to run the Olympic torch for the 84 Olympics, which was a once in a-lifetime moment. Um, and realized at age 16 that many are called and very few elite are chosen, which transitioned me to then college and getting into the work life. But I knew that I wanted to stay connected to sports. I knew I wanted to stay connected to the Olympics. And so that was the entry for me starting with the United States Olympic and Parolympic Committee and then moving on to Turner for over just under 15 years. Um and then took a turn into PepsiCo and and went into CPG land. Really enjoyed a lot about that and learned a ton. And then about 11 years ago, this feels very full circle to me coming back to coming to NBC Universal where I get to work on the Olympics again. And so real full full circle moment to be able to be here um and be working on that as well as a lot of our entertainment and other properties. >> I love that. Um and by the way, I especially love that as a mom of a daughter who um also shares the same dream and she has told she's very much an athlete. I would say she's not an Olympian by any stretch, but she has always loved sports. they've always been at the center of her life and so therefore she can only foresee a future where she is working somehow in the sports realm. She doesn't yet obviously know what that is. She's 17. She's almost 18. But um kudos to you for basically realizing a dream, right? And and being able to kind of um put yourself where you envisioned yourself. Why do you think um what was it about your story that enabled you to do that? Now obviously you wanted to be an olymp Olympian and actually pursue that. Um but how do you think you've been able to manifest sort of your goals in terms of being in this realm and now you know leading the the initiatives for the Olympics? >> I think having the north star knowing that if I wasn't going to be the Olympian how do I still stay connected? I think the north star has been the thread through my entire career and making sure that I'm trying to I might have zigged and zagged to get experiences and find new ways of working and and things like that, but always kept true to the north star and staying in that sort of locus of control of where I wanted to be. I'd also say I think what helped me so much is always be willing to learn, always be willing to try something new. I think that is what has really expanded my role here at NBC Universal is just being willing to open up and take on something different. Um, be a transformational change agent and a growth driver in a lot of ways. Um, combined with sort of staying in the in the area they wanted to be in has been critically important. You know, it's interesting too because um you know, what would you say to people who sort of are faced with an opportunity to go somewhere that may not seem completely aligned with that northstar on the face of it? You know, um I knew I wanted to be a journalist. My first job was writing for a publication called McNight's Long-Term Care News and I wrote about nursing homes and assisted living facilities and subaccute care facilities, which by the way is an extraordinary industry, but it wasn't really what you know the subject matter that I dreamed of. And yet it got me to learn things that I otherwise wouldn't have learned. So how do you sort of talk to folks today who might be like but that doesn't make any sense on the face of it in terms of my north star. >> That's right. I get asked um a lot about this and I think I had I had that critical moment where I did the pivot and the step change which was I was in the industry that I was looking for. I was filling my north star when I was at Turner. Um, you know, continuing to grow and expand and then a call came in and it was a call about PepsiCo and you know that's a big left turn going from a media company over to consumer packaged goods moving and everything and my advice is um just be cautious about getting too comfortable, right? Take the risks, be willing to expand your horizons. be willing to think differently. In our industries, in marketing, nothing is forever. Um, but go try things and go get new experiences because I would not be half of the CMO I am today if I did not have that experience at PepsiCo underneath my belt. It was absolutely transformational and I hope I can continue to do this and continue to grow and learn here as well. >> Yeah. Well, and honestly, um, you may not have seen it at the time, but but certainly from this vantage point, it's just the miss it's a perfect piece of your overall puzzle. I mean, having been brand side, frankly, having been on that side of somebody who is investing in sports and try and investing in media and trying to figure out strategically, you know, where they need to show up. I can't imagine you doing what you you do without having that perspective. um talk a little bit about why the brand side perspective was so so uh not to say that you're not helming a brand right now which you certainly are and we'll get into that in a minute but obviously sort of listen being a being at a consumer package goods beverage company I mean that is a very different vantage point but why has that or how has that informed what you're doing now >> yeah so important I think at PepsiCo one of the most important things that I learned around marketing was being the chief architect of the consumer experience but it's not just now, it's in the future. So, how do you know the audiences? Why and how are they connecting with your products and with your services and with your brands? But more importantly, driving that authentic and enduring relationship. That was the overarching learning. But then getting the experience directly with go to market was really important. When you are actually standing in grocery stores and standing in convenience stores and understanding the nuances of shelf space and linear feet, you're getting a perspective and understanding of consumers and consumer behavior from that lens that now you come on to a different side of the business. where no matter where you can go. That's why so many people from PepsiCo have gone to other great organizations and and careers because it is that sort of well-rounded chief architect experience holistically for marketing. >> I love that chief architect of experience. Um yeah, I mean I love how you articulated that and that that concept of sort of like figuring out what the consumer needs now but also for the future. in that are you is that about anticipation or is it about guidance of the consumer from the brand point of view view? >> Yeah, I mean I think when we're looking at building business for tomorrow and for tomorrow's audience, you can't use yesterday's strategy. And so you want to make sure that you're constantly ahead of the insights and what's going on with consumers. And so we did focus on that in consumer package goods. But now when I'm sitting in a media industry where we are that change and we are that rapid change now it's even more important on how do you retain the understanding and the vision and more about the fact that I feel like my role today is so much long lead looking there is plenty of work to do to today tomorrow over the next hour but I think where transformational change has come over the past couple of years with us and this role is really looking so far ahead head and making sure that you're preparing the teams and building out that vision of where we're trying to go. >> All right. So, let's talk about that. So, you are, as I said, you're the CMO of NBC Universal television and streaming. Um, you're leading brand strategy, integrated marketing, media, and consumer engagement for all NBC Universal entertainment content and sports, which includes NBC, Peacock, Bravo, and NBC Sports. Talk a little bit about what that means because, you know, I interview CMOS all the time. um largely they are CMOs of not just consumer goods companies certainly B2B companies as well but you know there's like a there's a there's a brand story they're not media companies although I would argue that every brand is becoming a media property and vice versa you know by the way every brand is becoming an entertainment company it feels like there's just so much of a mashup happening um but all that being said you know what what is it like to to walk in your shoes what is a day in a life look like for you and where is your mind where is your head space? Um, and where do you think it might differ from a CMO who is a much more sort of brandside uh traditional CMO perspective? >> Yeah, great question. I think a day in my life and why I love this job so much is no two days are the same. I never walk in and am doing the same thing that I was doing the day or the week prior. And that's part of the nature of media and the media business and the fact that we are also a consumer brand, but we are a media company. Um, and so it's about building and maintaining very strong distinct brands as you mentioned NBC, Peacock, Bravo, NBC Sports, and driving the audience growth across all of our platforms. you know, turning our biggest moments into year-round franchises and really ensuring that we're translating brand impact into real business outcomes. But where I get the most excited is I have amazing teams that work on the individual brands. I like the integrated growth part of it and bringing the brands together and thinking about a consumer journey between the brands or among the brands because that is really where the growth comes in our business is when we are building with the reach and the scale that we have. We're driving engagement and participation but we're translating it into life on fandom. >> Yeah. But how important is it from a consumer perspective for them to be able to know like what do you want the consumers to to hook into? Do you want them to really sort of um have a lot of um love and affinity for NBC Universal? Do you want to have them have love and affinity for Bravo or Peacock or NBC? Or do you want them to have that sort of connection at the show level? Right? Because there's so many different levels of of brands, frankly, in in your house of brands that consumers you know, are obviously kind of gravitating to and choosing. >> Yes. The answer is a little bit of both, right? Because we want to do an excellent job of branding the shows so that there is that connection between a summerhouse and Bravo or The Voice and NBC, etc. But I think when we think about building with consumers, a lot of it comes down to the brand salience and making sure that you're top of mind. When someone has time and they're going to go stream something or watch on their phone or sit on their couch and watch, I want to make sure whether it's NBC, Peacock, our sports properties or Bravo that we are the highest brand salience that we can possibly have in consumer's minds so that we are then top of mind. We want to be your if you're not sure what you want, you might know what you want. You want to go watch that show and you're going to find it on other platforms. But if you don't know and it's more of a I wonder what I want tonight, brand salience is probably the most important thing that we can build among the company to make sure that we are that first choice or top of mind. >> So there's a lot that probably supports that brand salience. Obviously the content, the quality of the content, you know, because you just don't want to fall into, frankly, the the the place of commodity, you know, you want there to be differentiation and it's a very crowded space certainly on the streaming side. So, you know, what are the mechanisms you're doing to sort of support that brand salience and how does the content actually feed that and vice versa? >> Yep. I think at the core of brand salience is storytelling and we invented storytelling. We are Hollywood, right? So, I think that's a key component. Make sure that your storytelling and all of your content and all of your touch points. Um, co-creation is also incredibly important. When you make your brands and your content accessible to consumers, they feel part of the story. They are now part of the storytelling with you. Um, but then it's about us. a transformation that we made a couple of years ago, starting with the Olympics and then into SNL and most recently um you know with Legendary February is turning from campaigns into franchises and and not singular campaigns but trying to drive enterprise growth moments and keeping franchises alive even though the show might not be on. We might not be in a season for instance, but we're still working to keep that franchise in the cultural conversation. >> Okay. So, how do you do that? Because you have built-ins superstar, you celebrities, you have superstars, you have athletes, you have all these individuals, by the way, who also and then their own right are are are brands, if you will. I mean, and they're at the ready. I mean millions of other brands are trying to figure out what's my creator strategy, who should I be working with, who do I need to, you know, um, develop collaborative partnerships with in the celebrity space, etc. You arguably have them built in. So, so talk a little bit about that. >> I mean, probably one of the best examples of building the franchise strategy is what we did with the Olympics going in a couple years out from Paris. We, it was a challenging moment to sort of sit back and as a company realize that the Olympics were losing relevance in the United States. What was once that secret sauce of the Olympics, the scarcity, right? The every four years, it was that anticipation. In today's environment, it meant, you know, if you are out of sight, you're out of mind. It's sort of the script flipped on us. And admittedly, we did not go with the script and where consumers are going. And so, we had to do a complete step change because we didn't have the brand salience. We weren't in consumer's minds. People were not thinking about us. And so that was where we did in every part of the company and all parts and functions we changed and from marketing's perspective we did turn it on its head and and one of uh a few things that we did one we did start working more with creators but it wasn't creators for the aspect of their reach and reaching their audiences per se because the Olympics was still generating an enormous um as a reach vehicle. It was about inviting them in as storytellers, authentic storytellers that were telling the Olympic story in a different way to their audiences. The way they viewed the Olympics, the way they experienced the Olympics was one. We also put a lot of effort not only around connecting celebrities, but connecting celebrities to athletes and the Olympics because these athletes are not known. They're training, you know, most of their day. They're not celebrities yet. they become celebrities during the games. And so, not only did we place celebrities with athletes so that we could immediately, you know, bring that recognition to life in our advertising, but we built a plan for the athletes themselves. We said, we're the experts in brand building and social media. Let's help them. And so we started project 40 which actually goes out to Olympians and parolympians and helps them with their brand building, their social media executions, their video creation. Um and then we started to eventize. That was probably the most critical thing that we did is a year and a half out um ahead of Paris. I'll never forget our first piece of content was a fun bait and switch with Paris Hilton where she was like, "Oh, the other Paris." You know, we had her doing an advertisement about Paris coming up and having the franchise ability of the Olympics, putting it in the cultural conversation more frequently outside of the games is what then led to people being so excited and ready to go right when the opening ceremonies came. Yeah, I love that. It's all about timing. It's strategy. It's being much more thoughtful and intentional about sort of the roll out and and how you get that story out there and keep that story present in people's minds. Agencies, you work with any outside agencies? Very few. Uh we are a media company, so we do a lot internally. I have teams internally that again are very connected to the brands. Um but here and there we will work outside in in various forms and fashions. Yes. >> Okay. So, let's talk about your you alluded to it, but what kind of a marketing organization do you have lading up to you? >> Yep. So, um over time um I've had the um they give me the opportunity sort of bring different groups together over my 11 years at the company. So, I started at sports and then um our broadcast and cable entertainment groups were added and then I took over something called the NBC Universal Marketing Council which that was then added and then about a year or so ago uh streaming with Peacock was added into marketing. And so what I've tried to do is really create centers of excellence within the organization. Um, I want to make sure that we're building really strong teams and strong teams that have diversity of thought so that they can work across different brands and different businesses. And so we have a strategy team. Uh, we have a media team that handles all of our owned media because we are very fortunate to have a ton of our own assets that we get to use as well as our paid media. And then we have our consumer marketing teams and then creative um, teams. And then we kind of finish it out with the team that handles a lot of the NBC marketing council symphony and integrated growth. So really over time have honed the center of excellence um format and sort of way of working and I think it's driven a lot of great yes efficiency for the company and effectiveness but also um really good skill sets and making sure that people are very deep within their areas of expertise and can really um do incredible work. Yeah. No, for sure. And I want to come back to that uh in a minute because I think the organ and talent issue is is a big one. Just to say, you obviously are marketing to consumers and you're also marketing to other businesses. So, you're very much a BTOC and B2B uh marketer, if you will. I mean, you are also working to entice brands to come and um and advertise. >> Sure. I mean all of our sits in that sits in sort of probably the ad sales organization and them sort of bringing it in. I think what we're trying to build is um the right opportunities, the right ecosystem, the right environment, but also what we also do on the marketing side is we'll try to do things in ways where then we demonstrate to sales this can now be something where we can bring a partner in. Look at what we were able to do with that content. look at what we were able to do with that um programming or that idea. So then it opens up doors where we can go get those partnerships and those those sponsors. >> Yeah. So the the marketing is the product and the product is the marketing. >> Yeah. >> And that all is within your agreement. I mean you just have to make sure that everything you're possibly doing and putting out in the world is as high quality on point and sort of meeting your objectives at a high level. obviously to entice consumers, attract them, have them be, you know, uh uh get their engagement, get their preference um and that is what's building the brand and brands of of of the company. So yeah, super super interesting. Now on that point, let's talk about you talked about the organization, you mentioned sort of the framework between the BTOC concepts or elements that you're overseeing and the B2B sort of how that feeds B2B efforts, if you will. Um what experience or skills do you need to have in a house right now? You know, how are you continually looking at your team or teams? Do you want folks for example like you who had gone to a PepsiCo or you know have sort of that mosaic of experience that then they bring to bear in an environment like this which listen it's very different. It's very nuanced. It's very multi-layered. So that takes a unique kind of skill set but also a unique kind of adaptability I would imagine. >> No, you're exactly right and I think that our teams within marketing we do serve as an integrated growth engine across the enterprise and so that is another challenge is coming into this organization knowing the entirety of the business understanding all the different areas and and pieces that you're going to work with. Um, so you want to have someone who probably has that capacity, who has that ability to really shift and do different things at different times. Yes, we have specialists. We have people that are very spa um, brand specific because you want that. You want them to bring the brand forward. But yes, I'm a big fan of people with varying experiences, different backgrounds because I think it leads to new ideas. And what we what we're doing today as marketers isn't what we were doing even five years ago. It's changed so much. And so people with curiosity and adaptability and the willingness to learn when you think about areas that we're getting into today is today as marketer marketers last couple years you know into place like AI especially these are not things that we learned you know a decade or two ago. So we have to constantly be learning. we have to constantly be curious um and teaching ourselves or finding the tools to be taught. >> Yeah. I mean I you know we we just are coming off of our marketing vanguard summit. We do that every year in Chicago and I mean there were just there was so much that came out of that. But one thing was that you know I mean there was a very senior global CMO who said you know I've been doing this for decades and yet I feel like I'm brand new to the profession and to the practice. That's a very um humbling feeling, you know, especially as you we go back to this concept of thinking about, you know, built my career and and and um I don't know, I mean, for for you personally, where are you going to, you know, um or how are you thinking about what you need to be doing almost for yourself on the side to make sure that you're continually at least staying asking the right questions? I'm going to say that because nobody can be fully completely up to speed on everything, but at least you can either be asking the right questions or putting yourself in the right rooms or sort of exploring the right things to keep you at least closely ab breast of all the changes that are happening especially visi >> I think two things that have always enlisted if it's an area where I don't have an expertise but we need to get into it I will surround my people myself with people that have that expertise right and learn from them, ask them questions, make sure that I'm, you know, bringing in the people that might have it. For something like AI, it is new to all of us in from a marketing perspective over the last couple of years and getting into it in the consumer lens. And so for me, I I am a visual learner. I'm a tactile learner. I want to see it. I want to feel it. I want to try it myself versus just be reading about it. So to your point, I ask questions. I listen, but also I try to put myself in a position where I have to work through the issue, work through the program, work through the problem. And I did that back uh two and a half years ago in Paris Olympics coming up with an AI agent to help provide frictionless discovery of um you know, Olympic content. We have 7,000 hours of content. People often find it hard to find what you're looking for quickly. You just want to watch this. And so finding that generative AI agent, the most beneficial thing I did was I put myself into that working team and I asked questions and I learned and it was um it was an incredible experience and that's the type of thing that I have to continue to do for everything new that comes out. You have to make space for it and you have to make time for it. >> Yeah, totally. No, there's no doubt about that. Um so when I asked you the question AI friend or foe, how would you answer that? AI friend, AI supporter. I've been fascinated to watch the adoption curves when you just place them against things like phones, laptops, iPads, you know, those curves are relatively simil similar. And then you look at AI and it's a complete spike on that adoption and how quickly. But I think with that adoption and commoditization, vision and creative storytelling are now going to become more premium and the human connection and the live experience are going to matter more. And so I'm a friend because I think it's helping us do things faster. It's helping us get places faster. But at the end of the day, we still in our position, in our roles, we are still critical to people. They want those connections and those experiences and those aren't going to come through AI. They're going to come through humans. >> Well, that's 100% right and I'm hearing a lot of that and I'm hearing that this whole pendulum swing around performance and brand um is just very much coming back to brand as a differentiator. Um and by the way, a true truly human developed brand. You know, are you do you agree with that statement? How are you seeing it from from your vantage point? How does that manifest for a media company in particular? I'm seeing it and I do believe in it. When you just look at um take the NBC brand and we're celebrating our hundth year, but it's it's what people remember when you show them a piece of content around NBC and our celebration. It's those verbal or visual cues from those shows because they were there. It was part of an emotional connection. It was a moment for them, right? And AI is not going to provide that to us. It's those are the types of humanity where you remember you were with people. You remember you were with family. Um and so those shared experiences are what's really going to drive going forward. I love the efficiency. I love uh how much speed I can get out of AI and even ideiation spark inspiration but it will not match the opportunity around um being able to tell stories and connect with people in a human fashion. >> And that is a great segue into sports because look I mean there's just so so few things that people can truly connect with now than sports. I mean it it and it obviously has been gaining traction. People have always loved sports, but it's at a whole different level now. And so every brand out there is trying to figure out, well, what's my sports marketing angle? What's and it's not, you know, and obviously there's a lot of talk around it's sports marketing can't just be this side thing that brands sort of dabble in or think about and I mean it has to be the thing, you know. What's your take on that? you know what how do you a what's your opinion of that as Jenny you know first and foremost separately from from the way the company's thinking about it and then also like what gets you excited about what's possible for brands that maybe they're not even thinking about visav the opportunities in sports >> yep I mean at the core of sports is live >> totally >> and it's the more powerful and important than ever before because live events are urgent, right? Anything else that isn't live, you're you're not necessarily going to have that inertia and that urgency, but it's all the things you're looking for as a brand when you're when you want to sell something or connect with consumers. You're looking for urgency. You're looking for attention. You're looking for community and you're looking for connection. And so that is what live sports is doing day in and day out. And if you miss the moment, you miss the memory. And no one wants to miss the moment. So that's why they come live and in particular for the games and sport for for the sporting events. What I want marketers to learn is don't just take advantage of that moment. It's not just that moment. Plan for the pre, the during, and the post. And more importantly, think about how you can build more business around it. We had legendary February, which reached heights that I don't even think I imagined it would reach. It was absolutely spectacular. But this so legendary February um about two years ago we were walking into thinking through 2026 and again this goes to the idea around consistently thinking about long-term vision and and planning but we had Super Bowl and it was on our network NBC and Peacock and then we had the Winter Olympics from Milan and then we had our first NBA All-Star weekend as part of our new NBA deal. So those three events were happening within about a two and a half week time period. Now alone they were spectacular. We could have market bid them just as look there are these three events and they're incredible and we would have done awesome as a company. But we went back and we said there's more here and there's an opportunity here. And so it was an opportunity to take three distinct and separate events and build a single unified cultural moment and one audience journey which was even more important versus those events competing with each other. We made sure that we built the full audience journey. But the statistic kind of going back to don't just focus on the live moment and that sporting event that I think we're most proud of because it was incredibly intentional. We had more consumption of entertainment programming on Peacock during Legendary February than we did of sports because we were intentional about you came through the front door with for the sporting event, but then we introduced you to all of these amazing rooms in our house that you got to go and experience. And they were very different rooms and there were a lot of rooms you could find for anyone because it was such a broad front door with those three events. But we had something for everyone. And so we took advantage of le legendary February before, during, and even after. It was the on-ramp, during, and then even the off-ramp truly making a enterprise, you know, sort of time period for the company, growth, and numbers that were really spectacular. and you're creating sort of a moment, a net new moment, if you will, because sometimes it's all about the packaging and it's all about thinking about the assets that you have and and putting them in a in a in a in a a much more sort of impactful package. That simple like aligned narrative that was repeatable that had a shared scorecard. The impact of that was immeasurable, not just internally to employees, but it was spectacular. It was great for our ad sales partners to go out with it. It was great for our business to the consumers to be facing them and talking about it. When I started to see and hear consumers talking about legendary February as their own that that's when you realize sometimes as a marketer you have to go back and say that simple repeatable framework it works. Last few quick questions. This is sort of my yin and yang question. What's the hardest thing that's keeping you up at night right now that that uh cause gives you pause? And what's the thing that gets you so so excited when you wake up in the morning? >> It might be the same thing. Time. Uh I think we we still have 24 hours in the day, but yet there's endless amount every single day um of things that people wake up and can do with their time. And so that becomes a challenge and that keeps me up at night of how do you continue to gain share? How do you continue to get people's time? But the flip of the coin is it excites me and excites the entire team to solve that. How do you figure out how to get more of people's time and attention? >> What would your team say about you as a leader? >> Oh boy. I I think they would say I have a transformational mindset. I'm someone who develops and articulates a vision, but it's a vision that empowers people to achieve it in their own way. And finally, who's next? Who's somebody that I should have on the podcast? And this can be a CMO that you know really well, uh, or it's somebody that you don't know, but you admire them from afar. >> So, admire a ton of people. And you've had such extraordinary, uh, CMOs on the podcast thus far. And I know he was on a panel, but I would think that having John Gizelman on um from Xfinity for a full podcast, you know, I've had the pleasure over the last year of working pretty closely with John and how he thinks about the consumer journey and all of the aspects that go into their business and growth. He is um it's pretty awesome to watch and he has a really spectacular mind. I think he would be a great conversation. >> Excellent. Well, John, if you're listening, I'm going to reach out at Jenny's request or suggestion. And in the meantime, Jenny, thank you so much. This has really been a pleasure. Um I look forward to the next time we can chat hopefully in person. Uh and in the meantime, thank you so much. >> Thanks for having me. And we'd love to talk to your daughter if she wants to talk sports in the industry. Our doors are open and would love to host her. Say no more. I will follow up on that 100% and she'll be listening. So, thank you so much, Jenny. >> Thank you for listening to Marketing Vanguard, part of the AdWeek Podcast Network and Acast Creator Network. You can listen and subscribe to all of ADWeek's podcast by visiting adweek.com/mpodcast. Stay updated on all things ADWeek Podcast Network by following us on Twitter at adweekodcast. [music] And if you have a question or suggestion for the show, send us an email at podcastweek.com. 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