Video summary
The central argument presented in this discussion challenges the societal double standard regarding how men's suffering and performance issues are addressed compared to those of other groups, particularly women. While billions of dollars in taxpayer money and private charity are allocated to committees and campaigns for female problems, men facing similar struggles—whether in school, employment, or health—are frequently told simply to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps." The speakers argue that this approach gaslights men into believing they can solve deep-seated structural disadvantages through individual effort alone. Instead of asking what society can do to fix the environment for men, the prevailing narrative asks what men must change about themselves, ignoring external factors like economic instability and social isolation that contribute significantly to male distress. A critical focus of the conversation is male suicide, which research indicates is often a rational response to an overwhelming accumulation of stressors rather than solely a mental health crisis or a result of "men not talking." An All-Party Parliamentary Group (APPG) on Boys and Men in the UK produced a report highlighting that men view suicide as a solution when their "stress bucket overflows" due to relationship breakdowns, toxic work cultures, financial debt, employment issues, and profound social isolation. The speakers emphasize that many men do not conceptualize these problems as mental health issues but rather as insurmountable external pressures. Consequently, the current focus on therapy or simply encouraging men to talk is deemed insufficient if society refuses to listen to the specific nature of their struggles or acknowledge the lack of male-friendly services and empathy available to them. The dialogue further explores how concepts like "toxic masculinity" are being used in a way that may inadvertently harm boys' mental well-being, citing new research by John Barry involving over 4,000 men in the UK. This study found that believing traditional masculinity is bad for behavior correlates with worse mental health outcomes, and approximately 85 percent of respondents felt the term "toxic masculinity" was insulting and harmful to young boys. The speakers draw a parallel between this modern indoctrination and past examples, noting how organizations are entering schools to teach children that men can be violent or rapists before they even reach adolescence. This educational approach is contrasted with figures like Andrew Tate; while the speaker recorded an unreleased podcast interview with Tate years ago due to concerns about his claims being unproven at the time and ethical considerations regarding "stitching up" someone, he notes that current social media platforms aggressively delete content discussing these topics, effectively silencing necessary conversations. Ultimately, the speakers conclude that there is limited utility in expecting men to open up if society is unwilling to listen or validate their experiences without political discomfort. The proposed solution involves a shift from pathologizing male suicide and masculinity toward actively listening to what distressed men are saying about their lives. This approach requires moving beyond simple platitudes like "just talk" to implementing the three-word framework of "listen, ask, and act." By acknowledging that problems exist outside of men's heads in societal structures, rather than within them as personal failures or mental illnesses, society can begin to address the root causes of male suffering. The discussion underscores that true support requires recognizing the complexity of issues like debt and work culture cannot be solved by tears alone but demands structural changes and genuine engagement with the realities faced by men today.
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common question is why don't men just do
better surely they can try harder in
school employment and health well no
other group is told when they suffer
with reduced performance or accolades in
the real world that they should just
pull themselves up by their bootstraps
we don't tell any other group to talk
about their problems instead we spend
billions in taxpayer money and private
charity to set up committees departments
campaigns and funds to solve the problem
in simple terms if a woman has a problem
we ask what can we do to fix Society if
a man has a problem we ask what can men
do to fix themselves it's a blatant
double standard and people who are
unwilling to admit any structural
disadvantages faced by men are standing
in the way of us solving the problems
that are hurting men and also the
potential Partners who they may no
longer be viable for what's the point in
asking men to talk if we are unwilling
to listen or even acknowledge the
societal issues that they're talking
about the problems are not in men's
heads but out there in society we should
not Gaslight men into thinking they can
solve these problems by just trying
harder or being less toxically masculine
if the patriarchy is so powerful why
aren't men flourishing more
oh what yeah well I mean that's an
excellent rewording of what I am I said
I'm happy to take credit for it I hope
it went down well
um I mean can I respond with a quote of
my own absolutely like going back to
suicide is a really interesting vessel
to talk about this this is said appg
boys and men is a new organization
that's launched in the UK it's all party
parliamentary group so it's different
members of different political parties
coming together the discussion issue
there's one on everything now there's
one on boys and men they did an
absolutely amazing report on male
suicide and this is what they found uh
sort of what I said earlier
um the appg heard that the focus has
been on being suicide primarily as a
mental health problem when in reality it
is largely the outcome of a range of
external issues or personal stresses
that take many men down on the path to
Suicide suicide is a symptom or outcome
of a buildup of stresses suicide is a
choice made by men when these stresses
reach a critical level and the stress
bucket overflows it is not the result of
either a single cause or men not talking
these stresses range from a combination
and combination of issues such as
relationship breakdown work culture
employment Financial worries and the why
and a more widely impacted by social
isolation loss of belonging the lack of
male friendly services and the lack of
empathy towards men we heard evidence
that many men view suicide as a rational
decision and a solution-based outcome
based on their failure to fix these
stresses they often do not conceptualize
their problems as being mental health
problems so I mean I'll read those
issues out again and you tell me Chris
which of these could be solved through
tears relationship breakdown work
culture employment Financial worries
like being in debt isn't solved by
crying I mean I'm sure talk about it
just talk about it yeah yeah bank will
accept that and he will be out of your
own right yeah yeah can you talk about
this for a moment and don't get me wrong
like talking is a way of dealing with
the problem but I don't know how much it
solves the problem it certainly doesn't
solve it in its complexity I I work a
lot of a male suicide research called
Susie
and together we've done some very large
cities together we did one of the
biggest studies in about suicide ever
and she has more experience talking to
suicidal men than I think anyone you
could ever meet and what she told to me
on my podcast was that she was like the
more I talk to these men and listen to
the life they're living the more I'm
like [ __ ] I'm not surprised you want to
kill yourself like it sounds awful like
you don't have a mental health problem
we need to stop pathologizing male
suicide and masculinity and actually
listen to what these men are saying like
it's um no appointment talking if we're
not willing to listen and the three
words I I try to bring in are
um
listen ask and act
like what's the point talking to God
listen you've got to act and you've got
to ask and there's no point there really
is a limited
utility to men talking if Society is not
willing to listen or if we're willing to
we tell people what they can or can't
talk about I get told what I kind of
can't talk about on my own page people
come into my page and they're like you
can't say that you can't say that don't
say it this way and I'm like I'll say
what I want
strange how you say men can talk but not
about these things and it's like well
it's not really talking if you can't
talk about the things I want to do I
love that I love that Insight are you
not saying the right things yeah we want
you to open up but we don't need to open
up in that way we don't need to open up
in a politically uh uncomfortable way do
you see John Barry's male psychology did
you see his new study uh I still always
podcast of you uh oh so this is a new
one this is John uh DM me this a couple
of days ago my latest research has just
been published it assessed the views of
over 4 000 men in the UK and found that
thinking masculinity is bad for your
behavior is linked to having worse
mental well-being around 85 percent of
respondents thought that the term toxic
masculinity is insulting and probably
harmful to boys
yeah yeah the funny thing is I put that
into a post not long ago
where I talked about the indoctrination
of boys we talk a lot about how Andrew
Tate is indoctrinated boys and in a lot
of ways he has I don't support Andrew
Tate in the least but we haven't also
talked about how there are organizations
that are going into schools right now to
indoctrinate boys educate them just like
Andrew Tate but to educate that them
then that they are violent like rapists
in Waiting
um and that that John Barry research
you're talking about I put that in I it
was like a percentage
of boys I've been introduced to the
concept of men being bad for society and
the percentage of boys being told about
toxic masculinity at like 10 years old
and it was really really high and the
reason why I don't know the actual stats
is because that slide was actually
deleted by Instagram somehow that's why
I got that slide got reported and
deleted and I was like there's nothing
wrong about style so it's a really great
example of like
Associated story you might have seen I
put a reel up maybe a month ago uh
talking about the fact that I'd once
recorded a podcast with Andrew Tate but
never released it and I was talking
about the fact that um I'd had the
opportunity to I recorded it maybe three
years ago when he was relatively small
and then I could have re-released it or
I could have released the first time at
the height of his Fame it would have got
millions of plays uh everybody in the
comments a couple of couple of things
first off everybody in the comments was
saying um this is you your morality
standing on the shoulders of of sort of
a high horse here
um like I didn't need to know about the
fact that you consider yourself virtuous
well if I had released it three years
after a very bombastic guy was talking
in the middle of a global pandemic I
would have also been accused of hang on
mate you've stitched him up he didn't
believe this anymore and it would have
been harsh on Andrew I did most of the
reason that I didn't release that a
couple of years later is it's a [ __ ]
thing to do to someone who was making
claims when there was a lot of unknowns
and now there are knowns and you can
prove you can prove false a lot of the
claims that he was making like it's just
a bad thing to do I don't care who he is
but what you think about him you don't
Stitch somebody up with a three-year-old
video anyway that was the first thing
second thing
Instagram took that down Instagram
deleted it and it had
two seconds of him saying hello good to
be here that was it he featured in the
video so that is how tight they are on a
number of uh topics especially around
boys and men every single morning for
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