Why Creators Are Becoming the New Marketing Operating System: Kevin Blazaitis & Chrissie Hanson

Welcome to Adweek, Adweek's podcast about the business of marketing, media, and creativity. In this episode, we're sharing a conversation recorded live at one of Adweek's events featuring leaders from across the industry discussing the ideas shaping brands right now. Let's get into it. >> Thank you for joining me on stage. Looking forward to the conversation today. So, we're talking a lot about the idea of creators as part of the new operating system, but this is a fundamental shift that a lot of people saw coming, right? If you paid attention, brands have really democratized voice. And a lot of what we see from brands right now is they are not the ones most frequently talking about themselves. That belongs with creators. That belongs with the broader space. So, as the president of OMD USA, like how are you thinking about that switch? >> As the CEO of OMD USA. >> [laughter] >> That's right. >> Um you know, we are seeing the decentralization of creativity in real time. Um I think what what's interesting and I I say this because I was having lunch upstairs a little earlier. And at the table, there were a couple of folks saying um I'm reading this particular panel and saying it was kind of a well, of course. Of course, they're the operating system. And I would I would actually say that's not necessarily true. It depends on where your brand is at, what stage of life it's at, and the level of rigor that is able to be applied and the amount of metrics. And so, we are seeing creativity decentralized in a really interesting way because brands are not the sole megaphone holders. What they're doing is delivering the microphones that enable creators to be I think active partners in the production, not simply participants in a campaign. And I think that flip and that change um is a good thing for the world because it kind of gives interesting voices that are much needed in the world. >> Well, that brings up a really good shift, about how you think about the content itself, right? It started very much as a buzz-centric space, something that was like 24-hour pops of really hype. Um, but when you think about what has changed to go to more like searchable, durable assets, it's now maturing into a long-term engine of visibility and attention. So, how do you kind of think about what's inspiring that next phase for the creator economy? >> What's inspiring in the next phase is content that has like a stretch and a meaning and a depth. So, we use we use the A word an awful lot, right, on stage, authenticity. And I I try and find a different word for it. And I think it's around originality that connects to you really deeply. And so, the content you're seeing created increasingly that has durability is that content that's shifting from a cost per to a cost per, I suppose, duration, right? There's a extension to it, there's a permanence to it. And I think that becomes really interesting for brands when they're assessing their next dollar um, of whether it is paid versus owned, earned, shared, and commerce. And when you think about the size of this industry, you're talking about a $700 billion global social commerce pie that as creators you could have access to if you understand how to operationalize that and show how the metrics work through the funnel. >> Well, you it no longer is solely based on social. You talk about extensions into the entirety of that. So, at Creo, we think about how to build with, you know, the the retailers of the world, how to build in with Amazon. Yes, Snapchat. Yes, YouTube. But also, those data partnerships are so key to understand full funnel impact because I've I've been in this space for a long time and an influencer used to be unboxings. That was how you found that content. But now, it's truly moving to a full funnel approach that drives commerce outcomes. >> Yes, and I love that, right? Because what you're what you've done at Creator's is really shown the brands that we have the great I guess great honor and privilege of looking after is the impact that creators and influencers are having on a par with retail media networks, right? So, it's that same level of rigor and detail and knowledge and impact on sales. And so, there was I was doing a little bit of research of some of the work your team does. And I love this one because I am a mom. Um and so, my need for energy is high. And it was one of those over the summer and it was a Starbucks Frappuccino campaign, right? It was with Walmart. And what I found interesting was that you worked with three creators and together you drove 145 million impressions, 5 million products purchased, 7 points increase in ad recall, 8.9% sales lift, 5.58 in ROAS. You tell me that isn't incredible levels of metrics and rigor. >> It's amazing. >> It is. And I think that's the um the evolution is going from that storyteller to having a full-funnel impact. And I think the bigger thing, too, is uh they're creators of net new demand. We did some research that I thought was really interesting. Um everybody thinks of well, you see a product, it was something I'm researching, reviews go back and forth, but what we actually found was 42% of purchases that come from an influencer-inspired journey were completely spontaneous, right? Like that that happens where you see uh net new product introduced, immediately clicking through, right? The TikTok shops of the world, Amazon and social integration. >> Incredible, right? >> It is. It absolutely is, yeah. >> Yeah, it was I think it was the question before we came on, right? What was the last thing people purchased? What was the last thing you purchased spontaneously? >> So, I actually purchased a solar charger. >> Huh. >> Yeah. >> Take it with you everywhere. >> Yeah. >> And yeah, that's TikTok shop. >> I love it. >> Yeah, that's okay. >> Oh. >> Yeah. >> Do you want to know what mine was? >> What was it? >> So, maybe this will resonate with some of the women in the room going through a whole um health influencer creator following and it's fascinating how much money you can spend on creatine powder flax seed vitamin B D all of it right that goes into a shake and a container that I must order and I've also got an audio book from my next flight so it's as I am part of that 700 billion contribution for sure. >> Well, yes, that that's changed especially when you think about how content is designed earlier. It's integrated earlier and one of the reasons for that has to do with kind of creator first design and the algorithm changes, right? You see that consistently where very hot one day and then all of a sudden the algorithm is suppressing something the next, right? So how are OMD and your clients really focused on designing for that impact in a way that is is more lasting? >> Yeah, so so for anyone who doesn't know what OMD is we're we're a media agency. We are the largest one in in the US and we're the largest network in the world. So we used to design specifically for platforms, right? To say what is the right format? How do you ensure that you have the right content context the right content for it that you thought about the duration, you thought about where in the narrative structure someone's attention levels would shift and there was a huge amount of science around it and you and you constantly update that. When you design for creators, the balance shifts because you're trying to understand what is someone's actual voice, right? What is it that you want to say? What is the cadence? Perhaps you don't you can't tell your story in 5 seconds. Most people can't. And actually you need a longer longer duration and so when you design for that, what you actually find when you do it well and more stats more cuts for you, but actually the duration is 22% greater. The levels of attention are of attention is 18% higher in plus and that means when you're actually truly looking at something as opposed to peripheral around it. And and that is why you're then seeing higher levels of purchase but also frankly interest in the mid funnel. And I think um Yes, I know funnels are a strange concept right cuz people say are they real? Are they broken? But I think we all know what we mean when we say upper and mid and lower and I loved your point around that mid funnel piece because increasingly we see a piece of inspiration that says maybe you want to buy case in my point, right? Let's go back to creatine powder or any of those. I don't actually buy the brand I'm recommended but I do start researching the topic and the subject and what does it do for my body and why that and I think that is a really interesting behavior that brands need to kind of delve into and it's kind of the point about is it an operating system only if you're ready for it and only if you're if your clients or the marketers, people you're working with, know enough of what they're looking for to put value behind the rigor that you might be delivering especially if you're a creator influencer. >> Really integration is key and having the the technology, the processes and an integrated team that can actually do that is really what's required and I know we've seen that with some of our our clients as well. >> Tell me Kevin, how do you What's the hardest part of education? >> Mhm. The The hardest part of education is understanding the territory and the cultural moments that a brand themselves can play in. I think that's a really important piece. Creators themselves are brands. But understanding the cultural nuance and being able to understand how how credible am I to educate somebody? That is That's where we lean really heavy into data but it's also about storytelling and who do you trust to tell that story? So often times brands, they may or may not be the subject matter experts but they want to inject themselves into that conversation. That's an educational opportunity for the creators themselves as well. And that's why it's early the earlier you can identify exactly how you want those moments to represent a brand in an educational content piece, that is what it takes. So the brands that lean into it have done it very very well. >> It's interesting, right? So So we've gone off script in the line. Sometimes I do that um to Kevin. But it But it would mean that if you were a creator or an influencer and you have a like a tapestry that you you generally paint with is if you're actually also listening to what brands and consumers are wanting, arguably your own content may start to change and morph in a really great way, right? Because you're actually answering a shifting need. >> That's right. And the type of content can change and evolve itself. The platforms do it all the time, but the influencers are not they're not platform specific. They're actually agnostic to that. So recognizing that those individual influencers, you may find them on Tik Tok. They could do really well in in a YouTube environment as well or a dark ad that they, you know, themselves never post. So yeah, it's an interesting space. Yeah. Wonderful. Um another word that we've heard a lot about this week, glocal. >> Oh. >> Glocal is one of the biggest words, right? We have a lot of amazing influencers that sit right here in Atlanta. But of course their their resonance goes outside of Fulton County and and beyond, right? So as you think about those planning processes and kind of getting earlier up upstream, how can brands tap into that? >> So So a couple of things and I do I do love glocal. It's It's gone in and out of fashion over the years. Let's start with the definition of the word culture first. Uh culture is the brand of behaviors that unite a group of people and I think that cultures they have a often a point of origin and a richness in a neighborhood or space or a community because of the associated histories um and shared knowledge and understanding whether it's around food or fashion. Um but technology has allowed us to I mean, for me, I was born in Hong Kong, so my cultures go Asian as much as they do European and and American. But I think technology allows to that expansive movement of ideas. Um, and we feel it most evidently in fashion and music, right? Those are really obvious places where glocal plays out. But it is also in travel, right? It it is in the act of discovery. And so when we work with clients and we and they span both domestic clients as well as regional and then global, you have to have playbooks, but also shared understanding and terminology of what it is that you value. So, what are your clearly really clearly stated ambitions? How are you going to get there? How are you going to decide where to place your dollars in a way that fairly assesses one channel over another one. And I think you're in this really interesting place with creators and influencers because it is both a specialism of really understanding how to work with human beings, right? It's not the same as with uh, established legacy media brands, right? But also bring the same level of expectation of rigor that says, "How are you working throughout the funnel?" So, I can do a really fair comparison in metrics. And that is what we're doing with our clients is going, "What's your knowledge of understanding today? How are you making decisions in the US? Are you making decisions with a global headquarters that might be in Atlanta, it might be in New York, it might be in London, it might be in Shanghai. Depending on where those place places are, you then need to make sure that you're all making the decisions in a consistent way, and that's hard. Just straight up, it's hard. And so it takes a lot of discussion, um, and regular relationship building. >> The trust is really important, too. Authenticity for creators is the lifeblood. >> Yep. >> But now they're expected to have commerce outcomes. Now they're expected to do those things. And you you were kind enough to give me some props right there. I'll give the same back for you, right? Um, from Gap's Better in Denim campaign on a global basis, their creator-led affiliate program, 8 billion worldwide impressions in a month. And that's authenticity right there. >> Who's so far Victoria? She's She's incredible, right? Um, I'll just say before, she is one of the most, I think, inspiring CMOs who gets it, right? And can take incredible concepts and then make them meaningful in different cultures and ensure she has a team that brings the rigor in the numbers to that. >> That's right. Especially with affiliate. That's a very different space than the pay-for-post space. Okay. AI, something that nobody on this stage has talked about this week. Uh, when we think about that, we're guilty. We talk a lot about efficiency and machines and all of those things. But influencers are people. It's a people-derived space. So, when you think about how different that space is versus the the broader media landscape, what do you really What have you found helpful for AI? And where do you see that kind of enhancing versus replacing? >> Okay. That's a big meaty question. One of the great benefits of using AI very regularly, and that's the joke is I'm slightly turning into a bot, but I'm not, is your ability to take, um, complex inputs and find the relationships between them. So, one of the the, um, very real challenges of working with creators and influencers for brands can be around brand safety, right? It can be around rigor and ensuring that, um, rules are adhered to. Um, so whether it is being on brand guidelines, right? Following requirements, making sure color palette is applied. And so at a functional level, AI can be incredibly helpful in terms of content strategy frameworks, which I know you're a pioneer in. So our organization of saying, "Okay, straight up, how should something appear, in what way, why, tone of voice, cadence?" So you can do that at scale and at speed. And I think it's also about prediction and seeing what might be possible. And what I mean by that is like scenario planning. So if you're building an audience in whatever platform or capability you're doing today, you could probably build a bunch of synthetics. Right, so multiple multiple groups at scales of 500 plus, and you can run a piece of creative against those synthetics. And you can start to say, "What is the likely result? What's the likely business outcome? What's the likely brand uplift or levels of interest and attention?" And in doing that, you de-risk the business. Right, you start to say, "I don't need to spend that first dollar yet, cuz I can run a bunch of scenarios." That is one of what couple of the powers of of AI when used when used well. I'm a I'm a power user. >> No, and it's very true because uh scale without suitability is risk, right? If you're on the brand, a scale without suitability is risk, especially if you're trying to get to those Yes. durable assets, durable attention. Those are really important pieces. So then next challenging question, how do you actually measure that? How do you set up the brand conversation around holistic measurement? >> You set it up by saying, "Guys, you have a likely a CEO and a CFO, right, who needs to see a return on this?" And this is where I have a personal tool, well I was a CSO before and now I'm a CEO, and I said one of the conversations earlier, the CEOs can be really annoying, right? Because they're saying like, "What is the cost return on this? Or or is it ROAS? Or is it sales?" So you start by trying to simplify the number of metrics you have. I have some clients who have close to 50. Right, by the time you you look at all all different divisions and where you are across the funnel, and you're looking at media outputs, consumer outtakes, business outcomes, it can add up to 50. It's It's a lot. And so, you want to get down to like nine, and then if you can try and get to them like three or four, that's probably a good place. So, align on the framework, align on the kind of order, and then you also align on the frequency, and what is it that each metric is seeking to do? Who is going to read it? And then what are you going to do to change the next decision. And if there's no change, then you probably didn't need that metric, right? And be a bit more ruthless about how you approach it. >> Especially cuz the the objective is different, right? You can ask an influencer to be expansive in a very tactical subset of an audience, or you can ask them to drive sales. >> Yes. >> When we think about this, especially from a measurement and data perspective, a lot of it is asking the social partners to play a role with us, right? And the the building and one of the things you talked about synthetic audiences. We've really found success to have AI as an enabler to speed up that speed to culture, speed to moments, right? So, a lot of times you see past content back and forth over email, and you don't have that same alignment of the metrics of what is going to be done. Um especially when you think about that cost per durable asset. How do you kind of think about it from like longevity? How valuable is longevity? >> I think longevity is the new reach, no? Um I think it is showing you a level of value that is beyond the ephemeral. And I think at a anthropological level, we're all seeking that to some degree. Now, I could take myself out of the philosophy hat for a second. Brands are looking to anchor their business decisions on assets, and people, and bets that make sense. And so, if you're showing that something has a meaning that drove an action, and ideally an action that made me part with my dollars, then that is going to have a greater impact on my own like shared mental availability of a product of an item. Um and so I think seeking is probably a great thing for them for the marketers in this room like to go what's the durable impact of this, right? And is longevity the new reach for me? >> That's a a great segue. So where does he think about kind of wrapping up with this? We have marketers that are across all sorts of maturity stages. Some are ready to have durability conversation and some are far more of like dipping their toe in the water getting more experience in a full funnel approach. So if you could kind of leave a a takeaway especially for the newcomers, uh what would that be? >> So if you are if a newcomer to the space, I would say to you probably innately felt in your guts that I need to work with influencers and creators. So so start, but start with um the leapfrog that is now possible with all the shared learnings and knowledge that exists that says I need a playbook, I need a clear measurement framework, I need to de-risk my decisioning, I need fewer KPIs, right? Than too many and I need to say how do I make sure that those ones drive an action. That's if you're new to it. Um but if you're really established in it, then I think it's about actually saying to your teams, are we specialists? We specialists who know how to communicate with each other? Do my other so in a media agency, do my other folks understand enough about this specialism truly or are they just kicking it over the fence or the hedge or the wall or whatever you're using, right? Um I'm of the camp of respecting the specialist but really knowing it pretty pretty well, maybe 60% 70% well, because you're making decisions around the rest of the plan and all of it is meant to be in service of driving growth for your clients. And every client today seeks that bit more of enduring realistic sustainable growth and it's very hard out there. So, I think that is the challenge if you are a more established player. >> Agreed. Agreed. And especially for the KPIs, I think the the biggest thing that I would I would encourage all brands to look at is include the influencers early in that conversation through the experts, through the right parties, of course, but understand that they are representative of those different brand guidelines to buyer that buyers themselves. Yeah. You talked about the share of Gen Z and everybody else, but all those actions really start specifically with a creator at the core and at people at their core. >> And and I think it makes the brands better in the end, right? I think if you really give you genuinely give a part of your voice and mission to people, to creators, to influencers who have a vested interest in your brand as as well as their own. Like, I actually do I do think it makes things better. By you you you I have to believe that in the world, right? Um I think you make for better voices. I think you shine a light on things that need to be heard um and you make for a better ecosystem. Yeah. >> Absolutely. Accountability and authenticity. >> Yes. I think so. And a little bit of like trust in them. So, [laughter] yeah. >> That's right. Well, thank you so much for the time. >> And thank you >> Thank you all. >> Thank you, guys. >> That was a conversation recorded live at an Adweek event. You can find more coverage, analysis, and interviews from across the marketing and media world at adweek.com. Thanks for listening to Adweek. If you like the show, be sure to follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.