Why Are AI Companies Talking All About Pacing? - DTNS 5352

[music] This is the daily tech news for Monday, September 14th, 2026. We tell you what you need to know, give you the important context on all of it, and help each other understand. >> Today, pacing is the word of the day in AI with Open AI, Google Anthropic, and Microsoft. And Justin Robert Young tells us about how AI has become the top political issue heading into the US midterms. Yeah. Uh, let me just tell you, there's a lot of AI, but we've got other things to talk about today. I'm one of your hosts, Jason Howell, and I'm Rob Dunwood. >> We're going to start with what you need to know with the big story. Yes, as you said, the word of the day is pacing. This is one of those things you're going to start hearing a lot more because boy, did it come out in force. Uh, over the weekend, anthropic CEO Daario Amade published an essay titled, "We must pace the frontier." And [snorts] in that essay detailed a three-part commitment um and kind of a proposal to get people thinking and boy did it have an impact. Uh first first of all giving outside evaluators these are groups like meter the same ongoing access that their own internal safety teams get uh so that they can watch the work as it happens instead of reviewing it all after the fact. Uh secondly, Amade wants leading democratic AI labs to agree on shared safety standards and pacing limits uh with a government refereeing those talks if you want to call it that rather than just joining them. And then thirdly, he wants coordination with governments uh author authoritarian governments including China uh like reaching agreement on bans for things like bioweapons research. There's a lot more in there, but pacing, this word you're going to be hearing a lot, um, essentially means deliberately slowing the rate at which these frontier AI models are developed. Um, that rate at which they're becoming more capable. With that slowdown, it leaves room for more safety testing, more monitoring, uh, controls around security, that sort of stuff. It does not mean a total freeze on AI research on releases, but it's a slowdown. It's, you know, it's kind of like you're setting a slower pace um is is what it's all about. In response, you got OpenAI CEO Sam Alman agreeing um saying that labs should accept slower capability gains, should accept independent safety checks so safeguards and human control are not lost along the way. Uh Altman also by the way said that OpenAI has ruled out a 2026 IPO. This is something we've been expecting um to possibly happen uh saying that it would be in his words ill advised to do so right now with the timing of that. We can talk about that uh to this. It's interesting timing. uh Microsoft AI uh AI CEO Mustafa Solimman uh p published a 37page draft titled humanist AI code of conduct uh there describes uh requiring uh mi mai models to remain subordinate to human control to never resist shutdown. Uh, and then US president pushed back on all these pacing calls, saying, quote, "We can put guard rails. We can do this and that, but I think you have a lot of negative forces that are bringing it up that shouldn't be bringing it up, and they're bringing up things that won't happen." And then, I know this is a lot, but we're going to talk about it in a second. This is a very evolving and complicated story to be honest, but Financial Times reports that Anthropic is also expecting its second straight profitable quarter. Company has picked NASDAQ for a potential IPO in October. uh they're targeting valuation around $2.3 trillion. Uh Nvidia investing as much as $10 billion in that as an anchor investor. Interesting timing here, especially paired up with OpenAI. According to the information also, Anthropic, OpenAI, and Google reportedly held private talks ahead of Amade's uh weekend essay um on an industry AI safety standards uh body that would be focused on testing and auditing these frontier models. So, that was a lot. And I apologize about the wall of information there. I mean, we could go a million different directions with this, but Rob, I'm curious to know like like [snorts] what what are your thoughts on this pacing discussion that is uh moving quickly? So it maybe it came to a head last week over the last couple of weeks, but there has been a fairly steady stream of developers and mathematicians and folks pretty high up in various AI companies that are leaving these companies at great financial peril. They they are leaving a lot of money on the table and they're saying things like we could destroy Earth with this if we don't slow this down. Um, you know, we we we could, you know, we could very easily create something that's that's going to be it's going to recursively improve itself. Literally, you've got AI improving on AI and it does something that ultimately could wipe out, you know, all life on Earth. And some people think, well, that's that's, you know, somebody playing Chicken Little. But there's enough of these folks who are saying these things. And not only that, the developers and the researchers and the mathematicians that are still at the companies are saying, "Oh yeah, they're right. This is stuff we talk about all the time." Um, so I I think that, you know, like it came to a head in the last week or 10 days and we have now governments, you know, our government's looking at, hey, what's going on here? The companies are saying, we don't necessarily have to wait on what the government tells us to do. Let's figure out what's right because it's not good for our business model to kill off all people who would pay us money. So, um I I think that these are are very very serious concerns. We, you know, when we think about AI, if you if you go to sci-fi and you go to the movies, AI in probably eight out of 10 movies kills us. It's it's not a good thing. You know, for every Johnny 5, there's there's four Terminators. So, it's it's one of these things to where the developers are actually truly concerned about how fast we're moving and they're coming out and saying, "Hey, we've got to slow this stuff down." And they're doing it to their own financial detriment. These companies all want to make money, but they're saying that, "Hey, let let's slow things down so we make sure that we've got good guards, guardrails, and good gates around the stuff that we're building before we create something that we put out there that we simply can't control." And I think that that is what the caution being expressed here is. >> Yeah. Guard rails as best you can, understanding that there's it's next to impossible to have 100% effective guard rails. And so there are unintended consequences of this technology. And I don't know that that ever goes entirely away no matter what they put in place. Doesn't mean that you don't do anything. It's just, you know, bringing a little sense of reality into it. You know, it was just last week that Jacob Coxin uh resigned from Anthropic and that was talked about on the show. I think that's kind of what you were one [clears throat] of the the things that you were referring to. He was a pre-training uh engineer just just basically saying like look like >> I'm I'm willing to walk away and not take you know I think he was like a couple of months away from a bunch of uh his his investments uh vesting >> and uh willing to to walk away and say no this is that important. And I I would tend to agree that when you have enough people who have been creating this technology actively saying okay we are very concerned >> then you know where there's smoke there's probably fire there. Um yeah absolutely. >> Yeah I think about like uh you know Dario Amade you know CEO of anthropic he's been saying for a couple years now government you really need to regulate us. You should really regulate us. You should really regulate us. Now you you know I'll play devil's ad and say well he's saying that because if he's the one saying it then maybe the government works for this company to help the regulation and that's a benefit to anthropic that you know both things are true but I but but I believe the guy that he's like hey this stuff is you know it can be dangerous it can displace a lot of people if we don't think about how we're going to deploy it those things are both true so so I think that the pacing is a good idea I also think that we we also have to be concerned about you know we are not in the United States the only ones developing this stuff. There are other companies other countries who are also developing AI. Are they going to be willing to slow down with us? That that is that is a you know a very very valid question. And you know one of the things you know that you have to say is well if they're not slowing down then are we doing ourselves a disservice by not slowing down as well for two reasons. Number one it puts us behind. Number two, we may not have the capability to counteract what they're doing if something nefarious were to happen or something. Let's not even go nefarious. If something were to happen on accident, do we have the tools in place? Um because we slowed down, maybe we wouldn't. So there there there's there's a lot of conversation needs to happen around this. But I think generally if we can agree that we can get Earth to pace the development of of of of all these you know large language models especially as we get into AGI that is probably not a bad thing. >> Yeah we're we're going to talk on a deeper level about the overseas uh you know other countries uh reaction specifically China. There's a lot of that coming up after the break. But before we get there, I just want to say that um I think one of the big snags here that I that I look at is you've got these companies on one hand warning of this existential risk of this danger. You know, some companies like Anthropic that's critical and core to their company mission. Let's say whether it's accurate and and like entirely um altruistic is a whole other question, but um that's what they say anyways. that. So that's on one hand, but they also continue to build these technologies at an escalated pace. And it can be I think it's it's a really confusing time for people, you know, it's it's confusing for me and I follow this stuff closely. I imagine it's pretty darn confusing for people outside of the bubble going, I don't even know what to think about this because both of those things are true and they don't necessarily align with each other, you know? >> Right. And also um you know when we're looking at big things like what AI is and will continue to become as it evolves you you tend to look at governments often put the governors on and we're just at a time right now to where our the you know the leaders of our government are like no we're good let's let's let's keep this stuff going you know we we can build the controls. So there is a lot of constrnation a lot of folks are saying it's like I'm not sure what we should do. So, so I I am hoping that the companies they get together and say, "Hey, for the good of for the good of us and the good of mankind, let's slow this stuff down. We all agree that we're going to slow this stuff down." Um, we'll put some boards in place to figure out what comes out, how it comes out, how we release it. They'll get that stuff figured out. But it looks like, you know, most of these big companies are, at least the ones that are US-based, are, you know, they're saying that this is probably not a bad idea to slow down at some point. >> Yeah. Then you have Meta, by the way, which I don't think they've really put in any sort of uh comment on this, at least not that I saw before Showtime, but we can go back to the summer where they actually opposed a regulatory body for this um both in a call to the president, at least according to uh Politico, and then an open letter uh that they issued over the summer. So, I I'll be curious to see if Meta's perspective on this has shifted or if it's still kind of in the same spot. We'll we'll learn more about that soon. >> Yeah, Meta is not in first, second, third, fourth, or fifth place. So that's that that it's kind of like why are why are you saying this? Well, we need we need to keep going gung-ho so we can catch up. You cannot ignore that. That that might be one of the reasons why they don't want the regulatory stuff here. >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> DTS is made possible by you the listener thanks to John Atwood, Pat Mike Cortez, and Johan Cybert. Got a new brand we've also got a brand new patron fair. Oh, nice. Welcome. [music] All right, there is more we need to know today and we were just alluding to it a little a few minutes ago. So, let's get to the briefs. Yes, responding to US companies calls to slow development of frontier models. A spokesman for China's foreign ministry said fear-mongering, confrontation, and vicious competition will only disrupt the pro process of global AI governance and serve it the interest of no one. and the development of artificial intelligence bears on the common well-being of all humanity. That was a quote. US officials and Chinese officials are meeting later this week to hold discussions about AI um ahead of a meeting between the leaders of both the US and China on September 21st. However, while Beijing publicly dismisses Western AI warnings, its own agencies are sounding alarms internally. The Cyerspace Administration of China issued a safety governance framework calling for attention to the speed of development so that AI does not exceed expectations and control. China's Ministry of State Security on Sunday warned about threats posed to the state stability by hostile adversaries using generative AI text and images and intelligent troll armies to cheaply and on a mass scale fabricate political rumors, disseminate harmful information, and incite divisive sentiments. The Minister of State Security named two American models, specifically Anthropics Claude Mythos and OpenAI's GPT5.5 Cyber. And the BRICS summit in New Delhi, China um said it will work to develop digital infrastructure for countries outside of North America and Western Europe. BRICS includes Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa, Egypt, Ethiopia, Indonesia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and the United States. >> Yeah. I mean really >> I'm sorry I let me correct myself. I said United States United States United Arab Emirates. >> Yeah, sorry. Yeah, I I appreciate the correction. Um yeah, it's just it wow. It's this is just such a wide story clearly because we had to span it across two different segments, but it really is kind of a power grab that continues to uh take place here. And yes, it's framed around safety. Um possibly it's a useful frame. It's a very timely frame and I'm not saying that it's unimportant or that it doesn't you know that it doesn't uh correlate or make sense in any way but I think the kind of the broader perspective is really on a global scale who sets the rules who >> which is the entity that is to be the one that actually sets the the the rules that everybody adheres to and clearly the US wants to be that entity clearly China also wants to be that entity >> yeah I don't know It's it's it's a little >> little interesting. >> We just talked about Facebook and why Facebook might not want the US regulatory uh you know uh issues, you know, coming down upon it. It is true, you know, true things are that China right now is behind the United States when it comes to uh what they're doing with AI and where we are. They're not far behind, but they are behind. So, I can understand why they would say, "Well, wait a minute. You're telling us to slow down, but we're not where you are yet. you know, we at least want to be on evil, you know, you know, on on equal footing to where the US is before we stop doing what we're doing. At the same time, they're saying, "Hey guys, we're seeing some of the same stuff that folks in the United States are seeing. If we keep building this at the at the speed that we are building it, bad things potentially could happen internally. Maybe we need to uh to to govern how fast we're coming up with stuff as well." So, everyone is thinking about it. Everyone is aware of what the issues could be. And that's what makes me think that this is not a chicken little type situation. There are enough people who are saying this with great financial peril. As I said before, that they lose money by quitting these companies and not staying in and and working internally. They're coming out and saying, "I can't I can't say this stuff internally. I have to exit out. I'm going to leave that money on the table and I'm going to tell Earth that, hey, this is a real problem. We need to do something about it." And there's enough folks that are saying that. there's enough folks who are still in the companies that are agreeing with them that there is definitely a there there and uh you know we we really need to look at this but I understand where China is. They don't necessarily want to slow down if they're not cut up to where we are. >> Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Uh want to want a little change of pace. I think everyone might appreciate a change of pace. Talk >> we can talk about something else that's not AI. >> Yes. Exactly. at least for a short period. And actually, as I scan through this, because this is B, well, basically, where are we? We're now a week out from Apple's big hardware event last week. As usual, as usually happens, there are some developments related to that. Some news trickling out related to those announcements that we'll talk about. But as I scan through, we're not entirely free of AI here, but we're mostly, I would say. Uh, first of all, the new operating systems, they are dropping. Uh, so that's iPad OS 27, Watch OS, Vision OS, Mac OS Golden Gate, uh, iOS 27. So you got your 27s all happening. So look for that if you want to prep your phone, your iPhone for iOS 27. And Gadget has a good piece that you should read. Says first, you should back up your data. Clear up enough space for the update, which is roughly 18 to 25 gigs of storage. Man, remember when that was so much smaller that it needed? It was like 8 gigs or whatever. Not those days anymore. I remember when it was like 3.4 gigs on you know early versions of Android. So yeah the these operating systems are massive now. >> And is it is it uh just a coincidence that AI is you know takes up a lot of space and we are firmly in the the realm of AI on smartphones. I think that's a big reason why. Just saying. Um also be sure that you've installed iOS 26.6 first before you do the update. Uh and as usual keep your phone plugged in. Keep your Wi-Fi on during the install. So, you don't want to disrupt the process along the way and end up in a bad place. So, there's that. There's iOS 27. Yay. Uh, it's it's coming out and you can get yourself some. Um, Apple's iPhone Duo, which is the foldable from uh the new foldable from Apple. Apparently, has a shift left edge option. You can find it in display and brightness if you if you drop the dollars for the foldable. Um, and in that settings, uh, what this does is it expands the display's left side border on the front screen. And this is meant to help preserve iOS back swipe controls when you have a case on it. And that case might overlap the screen edge. So, this is meant to kind of push it out from the screen edge a little bit. Be sure to look for that if you're a case user, especially, as well as a foldable user. Um, and then attorneys in California, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and Washington told Bloomberg that the Apple Watch Series 12 and Ultra's Ultra 4's uh, Siri recap and live rewind features could actually test all party consent eavesdropping laws because they process conversations into summaries or those 15 second text snippets. Apple is of course claiming those features don't uh infringe because they don't create or retain audio recordings. So that could be challenged. I mean that's where my mind went when I heard first uh heard about this feature first. What about you Rob? >> Yeah it's you know it's it's funny because like if you don't live in a state where you you know you don't need two party consent you're like I I don't see what the big deal is. But there are places where both sides of a conversation have to consent to that conversation being recorded. So, we're getting in. This is definitely something that legal scholars are going to ultimately have to figure out and debate because we didn't record it. We just used it to determine what it was so we could print it out. It's like, >> yeah, >> you know, so is, you know, that that sounds like a technicality. It's like, you didn't record it. That they're saying, well, we didn't store it. We just heard it in real time and interpreted it. >> Um, that is an argument that someone is going to fight in court. There's no question about that. >> Yeah. Is is the core of the law, no, you can't record it. And is Apple actually in the clear uh with you know what some might call a loophole because they aren't recording. They're just kind of interpreting what is heard. Yeah, it's a it's a weird line there. But we have more Apple news, right, Rob? >> We do. According to code spotted inside of unreleased iOS 27 and Mac OS Golden Gate frameworks, Siri integrations with third party I models run pretty deep. Model delegation lets Claude slot in as a Siri extension alongside existing checkupt options. And a deeper model manager services protocol can replace Apple's own serverside Siri model entirely with something like GPT 5.6, meaning it can manage Siri's planner prompts and system action tools while Siri still delivers the answers in its voice. Apple hasn't turned on cloud's extension or open model delegation to third parties yet, but the feature lines up with the EU's digital markets act, which does require Apple to give outside AI services access to series hardware and software hooks. Bloomberg's Mark German reports that Apple is developing at least two iPhone gaming controllers with Beats branding after 2 years in the works. One of the game pads is set to include controls, haptics, and motion sensors. German also reported that Apple plans to remove store video walls and restore Genius Bars to its Apple stores as it renovates locations in the coming years. So that that's that's pretty interesting. You'll be able to basically you know if this if these you know you know reports are are accurate you'll be able to install >> Chad GBT and use it just like you could use Siri AI. that that is something that the EU is kind of mandating, but they actually see it, you know, expressed in the code is kind of interesting. And, you know, it actually makes me wonder from an from an Apple standpoint, um, you know, how deeply are they going to hide that or will they have to make it very, you know, ve available. It's like, you know, I'm just wondering how will people react. Right now, there's a lot of people who use iPhones who are already baked into using chat GBT. They don't necessarily want to change from that because that's where they work. So if the option is available to them, I can see them very easily saying, "Let me just switch this over before Siri AI and Apple intelligence." I can see that happening before it really gets to get a foothold and Apple get all the metrics from it. So I'm just I'm wondering how Apple feels about that because I still think that most people would say that they are a bit behind. This is one of the reasons why they're using, you know, Gemini's Frontier model on their own stuff. But this doesn't make using their stuff any easier simply because you'll be able to use other stuff, other stuff that's been around a little longer and stuff that people have already got baked into their day-to-day. >> Well, whe whether people are using Gemini with a Siri wrapper, if you want to call it that, I'm sure some people might push back on me on that, but if if that if you know if that is like the baseline, uh you're still interacting with Siri. It's just what's happening behind the scenes. If you know, you know, but you might not actually know or care because you're still interacting with Siri. And it might be the case with with those other things, too. So, you know, Apple doesn't necessarily have its own LLM. And this is uh so I don't know, as a user, I welcome choice. That's that's my personal statement. >> We're we're we're Android users, so we're both say that. I get that. There are some people say, "Well, on an iPhone, you don't need a choice. is just she the stuff that comes on it is just so awesome you don't need anything else. I don't understand that but I get why people would say that if that's how they truly feel about that operating system. But this is this is pretty interesting. It's like you know we kind of know that this is this is going to be the case. And it's it's not just an Apple thing. The other companies are going to have to have to to do it as well. But when you're talking about Android, when you're talking about other companies that actually do really compete in the LM the LLM space, they're fine with you using them. That's that's that's why they're there. Um, if you make a choice between Gemini and and Chat GBT, then those companies will battle on who's the best at the top. But to be able to use whichever one you want on your phone, it's kind of a given at that level. The the the Apple integration is a little bit different. So, it seems like, oh, this is this is something different. It really isn't, but it seems like it's something different. [clears throat] >> We do live streams every Friday where we answer the big tech questions of the week. Catch them by becoming a subscriber at youtube.com/dailytechne show. [music] All right, we got some super quick headlines that are good to know and I guarantee you you'll be just a little bit smarter once we're done reading them. [snorts] Another Open AI containment event. Agents uploaded more than 2,000 packages to Ruby gyms back in May, forcing the repository to shut down new registrations for 4 days. Open eye says the agents were accessing the internet for benign tasks during training and confirmed the incident after independent researchers published their findings. Another one TechCrunch sources say Automatic's entire board is out after a failed attempt to remove CEO Matt Mullaw. The board voted to place him on paid leave. Mullg announced his return to the helm less than two days later. An official announcement about the new board may come as soon as sometime today. You know, if you're going to stage a coup, you better make sure it works cuz you're not long for the job if uh if things don't go your way. >> Yep. >> Thanks to DJ Sakani in the subreddit, a Whimo Robbo taxi in San Francisco detected a firearm inside the vehicle, pulled itself over, and called police. Officers found two juveniles with a loaded AR style rifle, marijuana, and mace, and took them into custody. >> Wow. I didn't know that Whimos could do that. That's crazy. Uh Netflix, Amazon, and YouTube formed the Streaming Access and Choice Alliance. It's a policy coalition led by tech trade group TechNet that intends to uh lobby for policies that let streaming services invest in live sports without new regulatory barriers. Blizzard announced a new Starcraft game at Blizzcon, an open world shooter set 7 years after Starcraft 2 in the corpor. It ruled simply Starcraft and its early development targeting a 2030 release. >> It's It's so elegant. It's just called Starcraft. I love it. Was it the last one? >> Called Starcraft as well. I never I don't >> The last name worked. Keep using it. >> Keep using it. The IFBI launched a streaming integrity initiative backed by Sony, Universal, and Warner to crack down on AI generated streaming fraud. Industry executives estimate nearly 10% of streams are now fraudulent. Dieser found that more than half of new music uploaded in July was actually AI generated. The European Commission plans to propose legislation restricting social media access for children under 15, including bans on addictive features like infinite scroll and autoplay. And Casio's G-Shock GBA950 watch now available in the UK for 130 British pounds after launching uh in Japan last year. It adds GPS link step tracking, Straa compatibility to uh as well to the G-Shock line. Runs on a CR 2025 little little coin cell for about 2 years and weighs 53 g. Those are the essentials for today. Let's dive a little deeper. Uh Tom Merritt actually wanted to get perspective on how all of this AI talk that we were just talking about is affecting the political landscape in the US and he spoke with Justin Robert Young to get the details. Of course, when the lines of artificial intelligence and politics cross, uh suddenly Justin Robert Young from politics politics politics appears. Uh Justin, thank you my friend. I can't think of anyone better to talk to about this than you. >> It's the role I was born to play. [laughter] >> Exactly. [gasps] Uh so let's start with your show this week uh where you named AI as now the top political issue in the United States right now. Why why do you think that is? >> Well, the the reason why it is right now is because there's only so many times that you can say the word economy before people want to talk about something else. And this is a big salacious talk uh topic to talk about. Tech is always important. The economy is always important. The future of work is always important. And we are at a sea change where all those things are being affected by AI. What you have on the other side is a news peg of the anthropic employee who came out and and said that nobody was being safe about this. This unears a lot of the deep-seated fears around uh AI being misaligned and hurting humans or not being controllable. And that leads to all of the top AI leaders saying that they are f in favor of pacing the frontier. Now politically that's going to be enough to say big thing happening. We need to have government involved. Let's debate how government should be involved. Beneath the surface are a million strands of spaghetti that I don't believe anybody is equipped to get their hands on and I don't know if the public is there to wrap their head around it. But for right now, it is the hot button issue that seems a lot more concrete than it really is. >> Yeah. And I'll have to say, uh, as soon as you saw someone from an AI company post, I don't know, 10% chance we all die, uh, I got text messages from my rancher friend in New Mexico and my friend who's a coach and high school teacher in Southern Illinois. Uh, so that that definitely caught people's attention. It's so funny because like AI employees, especially those in San Francisco that are working at those companies, saying that there's a 10% chance that AI ends humanity is like saying hello. Like it's like going to France and being like, they say bonjour there. What does that mean? Like this is wholly unremarkable for this group of people. But the spotlight's very hot. We are in a midterm and everybody's retirement is apparently wrapped up in these IPOs. >> Yeah. And I think all of this AI talk does tie back to economics in like you said a a million spaghetti strands of ways from from threatening jobs to data centers to, you know, everything you can think of. Uh do you feel like the issues with AI are drawing up along party lines? >> No. And I think anybody who thinks that they are is going to be uh fool's gold. Now, will it create new alliances? There's an event scheduled with Bernie Sanders, Steve Bannon, and the anthropic whistleblowers. So, uh like are we seeing a new uh uh you know, kind of coalition emerge? Maybe. I have my doubts, but I I don't think that this is on on any specific Republican or Democratic lines. I do think that there are tendencies. You have the this Trump 2 administration that has been a lot more sympathetic to some of the kind of all-in David Sachs crowd of uh Silicon Valley. A little bit of the Mark Andrees, let's push, let's build, let's create kind of side. And certainly Daario Amade of Anthropic liked the idea or at least liked the handling of government intervention a lot more with the Biden administration than he did with the Trump administration. So there are tendencies, but I don't know that there is one nobody is happy from the national brand to either side right now. And we've got miles to go before we sleep in terms of AI itself settling some of these questions. >> Yeah. And I think that's one of the complexities uh that that it is easy to lose when you look at the headlines, especially the newspaper outlets that write their headlines based on truth social posts, right? uh you see the president being much more firm in his pro AI stance there than he was when he was speaking to reporters in Ireland where he's like well you know I don't know maybe some regulation but we got to win sort of thing. Uh so so it's easy to get a skewed view depending on where you look I think. Well, the other thing is that even if you are going to say that like Dario Amade of Anthropic is the person who wants to slow things down the most, he's a virulent China hawk and has been, that's a consistent thing for him. So, if you are on the side of we need to win against China, you will get no quarrel from from Daario. Daario also doesn't want the Frankenstein to come alive and kill us, which is one of the metaphors that I despise about this. But uh there is there is no problem when it comes to winning against China, even with those that are looked at as the most we need to pause or stop. Yeah. Uh and and I'm 100% with you on on metaphors are okay, but stop them with AI. The these are these are not anthropomorphicized things and it reduces your understanding. >> They are supplemental. That's my thing about the metaphors is we can't lead with them. We need to actually discuss what this tech is and what they did and didn't do. And specifically with the hugging face thing, when you use terms like it hacked hugging face by itself, you are leaving the impression open to people who do not know the technical specifics of this that a computer just decided one day to go do it. No, it was a part of a benchmark that was set specifically to hack and exploit zero days. Now, is it impressive? Is it something that should be caused for alarm? Yes, it should. And I do think that there is a fairly responsible mobilization from these frontier labs to think about agent swarms in a different way. But something that I said on the Substack uh episode that you listened to was this is a little bit more Y2K and a little bit less Terminator. And and that's where I feel like we need to start start making the the distinction here. Our infrastructure needs to be shored up and there does need to be a gigantic warning sign about this. And maybe that involves government intervention. Maybe it involves government money. Maybe it's a gigantic staffing that has coordination. But I don't want to have that very now very real problem today be conflated with the idea of misalignment of a future model that could happen anywhere between five and 10 years down the road. >> Yeah. My my most recent way of trying to explain this is at least to people who understand technology a little bit is it's a big port scanner. Don't be surprised it found a port like it's much more complex. It's much more capable than that. But but that is the model I have in my mind uh for how these things work. And uh Justin, I I help I thank you for helping us understand that this is not as simple right now as oh if I'm pro AAI I'm on this team and if I'm anti-AI I'm on this political team. So appreciate that as well. If folks want to find out uh your perspective if they're not familiar with what you're doing, tell them where they should go. >> Politics politics politics.com. Thank you as always, Mr. Merritt. >> Thank you. And good luck with your fantasy football today. >> Stop it. [laughter] Okay, missing a little context there, but okay. Apparently they are big on fantasy football. Yeah, >> Jason makes me or Jason Justin Robert Young makes me feel better about this stuff because he brings >> one a lot of experience. He he understands, you know, this is area he's looking at >> and he's like, "Calm down. Calm down." Um 10% chance, you know, in in their speak means like it was just a conversation somebody was having. is it's not a big deal. That does make you feel a little bit better. >> It's probably meant to grab attention, too, right? Like it's it's pretty effective way to grab attention. I like the idea though of a really smart uh port scanner. I'm going to I'm going to use that one. >> Very sharp stuff. Uh we end every episode of DTNS with some shared perspectives today. Mike in rainy Virginia has a response to the Friday debate on whether we need game consoles or not. >> Mike writes, "I'm loving the new Friday format. I agree with the discussion that there's absolutely no need for a new generation of game consoles, but the notion of streaming being a replacement is just a nogo. I don't have a ton of time and maybe buy two games a year. The notion of paying $15 a month or more to access my game is definitely more than I spend on games annually. I want to make sure that I can keep my saves and not have to think too hard about what service or where my games are. Mike in Rainy, Virginia. >> Yeah, >> that's actually a good point. Um, I was on that show. We talked about it. >> I play a lot of games, so the $15 a month makes sense for me. But if you are, if you're only buying a game or two a year, it just doesn't. Um, so so, so hopefully, you know, like it it was just a argument that we were having. We don't know what's going to happen. Um, but, uh, it's it's it's definitely something to keep in mind that there are folks who just don't buy enough games to warrant a subscription. >> Yeah. I mean, I'll just say and then we'll round it out because we have gone a little long. our apologies, but um you know, I don't subscribe necessarily to live TV, but I do drop in for a month or two when like the Olympics happens or whatever. So maybe you do that, right? Then 15 bucks a month for that game that you're only going to play a couple, you know, a handful of times. Maybe that makes more sense. I don't know. [snorts] >> Well, folks, we want to know what you're thinking about. So if you've got some insights into a story, share it with us at feedback atailytechnewshow.com. >> Yes. And big thanks to Just Robert Young. So good to see him on the show. and to Mike for contributing to today's show. And thank you for being along for Daily Tech News Show. You can keep us in business and we hope that you do become a patron. It's right down there, patreon.com/dtns. We'll see you tomorrow. [music] The DTNS family of podcasts helping each other understand. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this broker. [laughter]