Why AI Can Never Replace Great Agencies ft. Andy Lopez, CMO of Behr Paint

AI cannot be a thought leadership partner. They can't look at things from a different perspective because the relationship that you have with your agency is only as good as what you invest in it as well. >> Hi everyone and welcome to the Marketing Vanguard podcast. I'm Jenny Rooney with Ade and I'm thrilled today to be joined by Andy Lopez. He's the CMO of Bare Paint. Andy, welcome. >> Thanks so much for having me Jenny. Great to see you. Yeah, it's great to have you here and and I'm excited to dive in. Um, you're recent, fairly recently named CMO. Is that correct? >> That is correct. Yes. I've uh I've been with Bear for a little over nine years. Um, and more recently, uh, my role has expanded to product marketing as well, which I'm super excited about. Um, and that really has allowed me to, you know, bring marketing in, bring product into my marketing department that already had a lot of different functions from a from a marketing perspective, just make it a lot more integrated as we think about uh, from insights to product innovation to commercialization um, and really closing that loop with our uh, our consumers. So, super excited about that. >> That's awesome. So, um, so you've been there a while. Um, you what has kept you there? you know, I always wanted to ask because marketers move around a lot, you know, certainly um that at least that's sort of the the the assumption, but tell me a little bit about what's kept you there. >> Yeah. Um Bear is a very uh a very special organization. Um and really it's what brought me here and also what has kept me here. Uh we have a very incredible culture here. Um although it seems that nine years is a long time um I am considered probably more of a newbie than majority of our our workforce. We have a lot of tenured employees. Um it's it's it's just creates this amazing culture within um our organization, but it's also such a beloved brand and such an exciting brand to be able to work on um and really bringing kind of color and inspiration into consumers homes and their lives. Um and so I think that's really what's been able to keep me. It's the It's the people, it's the culture, it's the excitement for what we're able to do with a brand. Um, and then we also have this incredible partnership with uh with Home Depot and being able to really partner with them on, you know, new and different innovations that we can do within the space and also just really do within the category um which makes it super exciting and makes it uh super fun. >> So, let's talk about that. Is that an exclusive partnership with Home Depot? >> Yeah, so we've been um we've been a partner with Home Depot since they opened their doors. Um, and we have just continued to evolve and grow uh the partnership with them. Um, and we have the exclusive partnership not only for the Bear brand but also for our Kills brand as well, which uh which happened last year. And I'm super excited about that. >> Yeah. And um like I want to go into you too. I want to learn about your story. But it is fascinating. I mean I I I I love this category. Like I love this space. Um, and frankly as a consumer, I don't know, there's just the the association you have with paint, painting your home, bringing something to life, like you know, there's um there's just a warmth to the paint space that I, you know, anybody who who who has gone through that and loves the the journey and the sort of the art of discovery of picking out, you know, the color that suits them and the home and there's something so personal about it. I don't know. I was just >> it's emot it's emotional and physical all at the same time, right? I think that's what makes it really interesting is um you know obviously you see the physical transformation of what color can do to a space, but there's also this huge emotional feeling that you get as well. you know, depending on what inspired you to transform the space that you're transforming, whether it was, you know, nostalgic in a color that you saw within, you know, your grandmother's, uh, house, uh, when you were growing up, or if it's tra when you're traveling and you go to an amazing destination and that inspires you to bring that space into your home so you can always feel like you're on vacation. I mean, there's so many different ways how people choose and select a color um that makes it so interesting and it's always evolving and it's always changing and as I'm sure you're familiar with, you know, trends, they come, they go and then they come back again um which is always fun to see and they come back in different forms. It's never the same uh you know, the same exact trend. I mean, we we launched a color of the year a couple years ago, rumors, which is uh a red kind of a ruby uh red. you know, we had this whole nostalgic piece of, hey, that was everyone's dining room growing up in the 80s and but now it's coming back in this more modernized, timeless way. And so, just being able to see the evolution and kind of the transformation of that makes it really exciting as well. >> I love that. So, we'll come back to that in a minute because I'd love to learn, you know, to to dive a little deeper into the to the bare structure and sort of the strategy behind all that. But let me start take a step back and and have you share a little bit about you because I do think like I can feel your passion for the brand and for the business. But what did you start your career in and and tell us a little bit about your journey that has informed where you are now? >> Yeah, definitely. So I started my journey on the the agency side. Um I worked at Sachi in Los Angeles working on the Toyota business. Um which was great foundation, great structure, great people. um and then went over to a smaller agency uh still based in LA but more of a projectbased uh agency where I was really able to diversify the industries that I worked on, the different brands that I worked on. Um which just gave me just some remarkable experience as I was kind of growing within the advertising and marketing landscape. And then I got to a point where I wanted to continue, you know, I always love to be challenged and I always love to, you know, learn new skills and put myself in, you know, positions that I'm not, you know, necessarily completely comfortable with in order to be able to um get excited and challenged in in different ways. And that's what really drove me to join the client side of uh and and the brand side at uh at Bayer. And so that's what created my journey at Bayer about nine years ago. And through my time at Bear, I've evolved in, you know, many different facets. As I mentioned, obviously more recently with uh the expansion of product, but I started really more within a brand marketing function, which is probably as close to what I was used to working with on the agency side. But even within that role, you know, the the advertising function of it is one sliver of of multiple different functions and multiple multiple different departments um that you work with that you always don't have exposure to on on the agency side. And so I think that's what, you know, that's what I was looking for. I was looking for that challenge and that differentiation of something that I wasn't used to doing and I can really learn and and be inspired by, you know, different skill sets and different departments. And that's really just what helped me continue to stay at Bayer is I was always feeling challenged. I always felt that there was new opportunities um and just continued to be able to expand my role to different disciplines um to you know now running all of uh all of marketing. So so that was really you know in a nutshell the the journey that I had what you know and it was kind of that big switch from the agency side to the uh the brand side. Um but a great you know I wouldn't change anything. I get that question uh asked a lot too is you know would you would you would you have started on the agency side and I just I I loved the experience that I had to really get me and and build the foundation of where I am today. >> Well, it's interesting because you know you I mean the the sort of the long story around um and by the way a lot of some of the best CMOs in the world came from the agency side. We we we know that. But it's funny because you know historically it's like you work at an agency because you you love the diversity of clients beholden to just one project basically that that if you go client side obviously you're locked in that's what you're focused on but I it's interesting to hear you talk about it in a different way which is that but what you l what you um what you give up by arguably only working on a brand going client side you gain in the um exposure to a whole host of levers, strategies, you know, the whole mosaic of what powers a brand, you know, beyond just the advertising. Now, frankly, that's also a commentary on agencies. You know, if they're only seeing the advertising sliver, a slice of the pie, well, that that could be a problem, too. You know, that >> definitely we could spend a whole hour talking about that. Um >> Yeah. Um so it's an interesting yeah >> it is and I do think agencies have evolved a lot right I mean I think I think they have they have had to evolve and the traditional agency brand partnership is so different today than what it was you know even uh you know 5 10 years ago like it just it it has to evolve and it requires the agencies to you know really how what does an extension you know partner look like for someone, you know, that's sitting on the brand marketing side and and what does that look like? And I think that's that's what makes the best agencies so great at what they do is they really find that value that they can bring to uh to the team and to the brand. >> Yeah. Um, and it's funny I was going to ask you that the next question was going to be what do you think is happening like from having spent time on the agency side and now on the client side and seeing frankly this swirl that's happening in the agency in the agency world because yes they've evolved and leveled up but also AI is creating sort of it's wreaking havoc industry consolidation agency consolidation is wreaking havoc so from your point of view now as a client what else are you seeing what are you paying attention to and you know how is that also how are you a good client based on the fact that you you spent time on the agency side. >> Yeah. Well, hopefully I would I would be positioned as a good client. I don't know. I don't know if I would know that. Um but uh but I think I you know I think the one thing is is that technology evolves, the media landscape evolves, consumer behavior evolves. None of that is necessarily new. But I think what key, you know, what what's what stays true about the agency is one the partnership that they truly build in, you know, with a with a marketing team and a marketing function at a brand. I think being able to bring unique perspective, diverse perspective, um, diverse thinking where they're able to understand the business at the level that they're able to understand the business on, but not be so caught up in everything that the brand is caught up in, you know, with all the things that they're managing from a marketing side. Just creates this nice um these this great synergy between breakthrough ideas, breakthrough campaigns, breakthrough breakthrough innovations. And I feel like that still stays true to what it was, you know, 10, 20 years ago. I think that still is such an important aspect of the agency side is you have to, you know, that AI cannot solve that. AI cannot be a thought leadership partner. They can't look at things from a different perspective because the relationship that you have with your agency is only as good as what you invest in it as well. And so I think that's what really has helped shape the the partnership that we have. We work with a lot of amazing agencies. I do feel like we have great partnerships with all of them. Um where I truly believe their biggest strength and the reason why we've we've been with them as long as we have is because they still are able to offer that unique perspective. They're able to still be a truly uh extension of our team and they're adding they're adding value in the way that we need from from a marketing perspective. uh because we don't have all of those capabilities um in house. And so I do believe that that that still stays true. I don't think that that has changed and I think that still is a very um unique position of where agencies can thrive that no technology, you know, can replace today. [music] >> Hi everyone and welcome to the Marketing Vanguard podcast. I'm Jenny Rooney with AdWeek [music] and I'm joined um for a special segment with Melissa Levy. She's the president of Sparks. Melissa, welcome. >> Thank you. Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it. >> I'm so happy to have you here. How did you land in this role? Um, what got you there? Meaning, what did, you know, what is it about your career journey that informed where you are now? And what does your day-to-day look like? So, I've just joined Sparks recently. I've been here about seven months now. I started at the beginning of the year after 19 years in another agency. And so, I have been in and about the agency world for the vast majority of my career. So when you talk about experiential, which is so key, you know, obviously as president, you're making decisions day in day out. And one of the things on the podcast I ask people is if you had to boil it down, what's one decision you made recently that ended up um or is in the process of changing the trajectory of your brand or business? And I have to think that a lot of your previous experience, but also what you just said about how generally you're seeing experiential rise in priority among CMOs is informing how you're leading at the organization. I think Sparks is such a a great organization. They've been around for over a hundred years and they have just this really deep roots in inerson live events. And at the same time, you've got consumers who are craving um a better and bigger connection with the brand. How do we really meet them where they are? How do we create these brand experiences, whether it's B2B or B TOC? >> You mentioned measurement event success used to mean badge scans and booth traffic. What's actually changed in how brands should measure a live experience today? >> They really should be measuring it at the end of the day. What are the business outcomes, right? and experiential or in-person live events have have sometimes struggled from a measurement perspective because it is what they've used right traffic badge scans. So what is it not just the quantitative but the qualitative that we can actually quantify. We're looking at the experience in the event in the booth in the engagement whatever the activation is that we're doing and thinking about earned engagement value. It's a metric that we talk about, but really it is what are we watching people touch, engage with, do, and how do we measure that? >> So, people say they trust brands more after an in-person event. Do you think trust itself should be an ROI metric? And how should CMOS think about selling that internally? I think people are over marketed to there's so many messages and there's so many things going on in the world that people have started to lose trust in the message and as you mentioned uh creating trust is super important and one of the ways that we do do that and that that has been measured to be a successful outcome is inerson events. So we fundamentally believe trust and building trust in person is key for any CMO or CFO for that matter. We obviously kind of tied to that obviously we're the trust conversation is we're living in an era where AI is just rapidly every single day it's it's evolving the marketing practice and um CMOs have more attendee data than ever they have some you know reams and reams of intelligence and information but how do you sort of how should they maintain and hold on to creating things that feel very personal without feeling invasive because there's that line that they need to make sure they they maintain balance around >> when you're creating an activation or an experience or an event, you're creating these in-person experiences where people are creating the content that they want. They're building trust with the brand and then they're publishing that content out there. But when you get people in there touching and feeling and experiencing your brand and then publishing it and putting it out there in the network for everybody else to see, you can't buy that. You mentioned earlier a lot of B2B companies, tech companies have long used events as as well for marketing. Um, but it shouldn't it doesn't have to be exclusive to those kinds of companies. What would be your best advice to a company, a brand, um, a CMO who perhaps hasn't had an events first strategy historically, but in this day and age is thinking more specifically and more intentionally about actually driving a strategy that puts events first and foremost. Um, what would be your best piece of advice for them to dive into this space? What do they need to have sort of lined up internally to optimize best? >> I think they need to one think about events and experiences as part of their marketing mix. My first piece of advice would be for CMOs to realize how much around you is actually events and experiences. I mean CMOs in particular are at conferences all the time and stop and think about what you're really getting out of it and who your best partners have been and where the best conversations are being had or the ones that are the most valuable. Where does that fit in from both a brand position and a a a direct measurement position? You know, how can you drive business outcomes with a face-to-face um meeting or an event or an experience? And um last quick question, you know, you're a marketer, too. I mean, you're thinking about the brand. You're built you started the conversation by talking about like what you're doing to drive the business forward to continue to um you know, to elevate it and and drive growth. What gets you excited about being in this category and how are you thinking about the opportunity that exists especially um in events and to your earlier point about how they've always been important but there does seem to be in this era just a lot more intensity and excitement around events as a as a fundamental driver. What do you get up excited about in terms of how all of that is informing where sparks can go? there is a sea change in the environment and I'm so excited about the different generations and how they are getting out there and so every day I wake up and I think how can one move our business forward today how can I move the client's business forward today but really I'm so fortunate and sparks is so fortunate we get to bring joy to people we get to create these environments where people always walk away happy engaged they've learned something they got to meet someone new And that's that's an awesome job. I mean, that's it's a gift and I I love being part of it. >> Well, thank you for being on the Marketing Vanguard podcast and um I can't wait to see what more comes from you and from Sparks and hope to see you again very soon. >> I appreciate it. Thanks for taking the time today. It's always fun to talk to you. It's hard though and I mean we're [music] speaking candidly and you can plead the fifth here but you know when when your CEO your board or somebody else is saying okay CMO cut costs further like how much can AI sub in where you're spending XYZ with with outside con you know agencies like and so you know and no discredit to them of course cost efficiency is is key it's pivotal it drives a business forward so like how do you think about managing internal as well the external relationships to make sure that everybody's aligned and on board with obviously where you're spending money, why you're spending money, and sort of um how you're balancing that against cost efficiencies that you may or may not yet be seeing. >> Yeah. >> For more automation, right? It's >> Yeah, >> it's complex. >> Yeah, it's definitely complex and I don't think there's one specific golden ticket that is going to solve all of the issues. But I will say this and and I I believe this to be true and not you know bear specific or you know even industry specific there's already so much more that we can be doing and so I think the way that I position hey if there's ways that we can leverage tools in order to make us more productive or if there's things that are taking longer than what they need to be so that we can focus on other things to accelerate get higher volume go quicker to market then we can go from here to here and it feels like a more positive outcome that will have a bigger impact on our business and our brand. And I think that's the way that at least the conversations that we are having both, you know, internally and with our agencies is we already don't feel like we can do all the things that we want to do that we feel like can have such an impact on our business. And so being able to leverage tools that make us more productive, that get us faster to market is only going to be able to accelerate more of that. Um, I don't know if anyone's sitting in the seat, especially with, you know, GEO and content and digital innovation that they're like, "Yeah, I'm, you know, AI can come in and just displace all these other things that we're doing and we'll be perfectly fine because I feel like we're always chasing so much more that we could be doing that we feel like can add this, you know, tremendous value to to our business." >> Yeah. I mean, look, it's challenging times. Um I think there's opportunity is super exciting but um it's funny because um we we hear a lot from our our members you know everybody's very hungry for other examples of what marketers are doing especially um when it comes to applying AI in a really meaningful way and not just sort of like a side project or a one-off or a um you know um a small a smaller bite of of things. And so, you know, on the one hand, I'm very intrigued by and want to find and cultivate more case studies that actually sort of show, you know, fellow CMOs, like what really is happening and where where people are seeing successes. On the flip side, it's also still early days and not everybody been able to do anything that's that um demonstrable, you know, like that sort of um high impact. So, it's it's kind of an interesting place where you want to see examples of what good looks like, but are we're not quite there, you know? >> Yeah, we're not. And and I will say too, as as we've explored different things that even talking to other, you know, businesses and other CMOs and other, you know, people that are leading their marketing function, it doesn't ever feel like it it's going to be this one-sizefits-all approach. Like, I don't know. I mean, I think to your point, there'll be case studies there that you can learn and you can glean from, but I think with AI and what they can do in the space is going to be so custom to the brand, that marketing function, how they're set up from an organization perspective, but I think there's so much learning, you know, to be done, especially, you know, across all these different functions like you said, it's not only impacting content and creative, it's impacting, you know, research and insights and, you know, can it get us some secondary research, but it's not overtaking the primary research of actually, you know, being able to understand true consumer behavior in a in a more primary way that's specific to your brand and your business, but it it is allowing us to move faster and it's allowing us to allow us to be a lot more productive, which is very exciting. >> Switching gears a little bit um from the bear perspective um and we talked a little bit earlier about the the whole point, you know, color and homes and everything else. What are you seeing on the consumer front? because I would find that you guys have a unique perspective on like, you know, honestly just consumer sentiment in terms of spending, home buying, renovation. Um, you know, what consumers care about right now and and specific to sort of the space you're in, what are what are you seeing and and what might be interesting to other marketers? You know, I think what we're seeing, what everyone's seeing, um, just based on, you know, the the Michigan, you know, consumer sentiments study that that comes out is that it is at at an all-time low. And I think what's driving a lot of that even within, you know, the home improvement space, but I don't, again, I don't think it's necessarily, you know, specific to our home improvement space. It's it's the share of wallet out there is is real and it's it's price sensitive driven and it's making sure that whatever whatever is going to get a piece of that share of wallet needs to add value to that consumer and I think that's what brings this whole idea of consumer centricity and that's why we're hearing so much more about it than we have before even though it's it's been something that you know we have from a bear perspective have always done I think this shift of product is just allowing us to do it even more productive and and faster. But it's really trying to understand how can we truly everything that we're bringing to the table is solving a a painoint or it's adding value to the journey that someone is on specifically as it relates to a painting project, right? And and what we know from a journey perspective is they're coming in at all different phases. Um, and we've done a lot of different research to understand the the consumer journey. But I think what helps us in determining how we go out to market from a campaign perspective, how do we uh identify new product innovation, how do we identify new digital innovation is really looking at what those those pain points are and then really figuring out ways that we can solve and add value to to that process. And for paint for example, I mean the biggest pain point as I'm sure you can imagine is color is deciding on a color. And we call it color paralysis. Um and it's really this idea of you know based on our research it's like hey it's the most exciting part of the journey. People are inspired by color. They get really excited about the color wall that's at Home Depot. You're on Pinterest. You're on TikTok. You're getting all of this inspiration that gets you excited to do a project. But then when it comes down to actually feeling confident in narrowing in on that one specific color, we see this abandonment in purchase. And so that's being able to really dive in into that specific insight and then to be able to create technologies and tools that solve that pain problem is is what's exciting. And I think that's what I mean that's what marketers have to do now and and what they've been doing. But even more so than ever when you are fighting for the share of wallet is what are you doing to truly add value to you know that journey and and what that consumer is going through. >> So now let's talk about the about the bear strategy and the marketing strategy and and some of the fun stuff the campaigns and things like that. And I do want to ask you, you because you're an exclusive partner of Home Depot, um, talk a little bit about the unique dynamics of the fact that, um, you know, Home Depot is its own brand engine in and of itself, right, with tremendous leadership. They're doing amazing things to get the Home Depot brand out there. you have all autonomy around the bear brand and and sort of like even though so so it's it's like you take advantage of the partnership but then you also go out in the world obviously as yourselves or how how does it manifest the the the sort of the bear brand versus the bear plus Home Depot branding? >> Yeah. So yeah and it's a great it's a great question. You know, I think what it comes down to is the trust uh that we've built with the Home Depot over, you know, the last, you know, since their doors opened. And specifically from a marketing perspective, we have such a great relationship across all verticals um of their marketing team, whether that's their orange apron team, um handling their retail media, their category, uh marketing team that's specific to the paint department, and then their enterprise marketing uh that they're doing as well. And so really the way that we come together and and you know we're able to really understand what is Home Depot's you know position, what are they doing, how does Bear fit into that and then what are we doing specifically to drive more of that category excitement, that category motivation um is really leading with the the Bear brand and we're able to do that and and all a lot of our everything that we're doing really benefits the Home Depot as well because we're try at the end of the day we're trying to drive traffic in store to buy paint. So, that really is is what creates this very unique partnership is that we really start with the planning together. We we understand what levers we want to pull um what they're doing, how we could be part of that, what we're doing, how they can uh amplify that on their side as well, and then we really work on kind of what that annual plan looks like throughout the year and really partner together on a lot of different initiatives. I know, you know, FIFA was just one of them. Um our color of the year campaign is one of them. And then really throughout the year, we we identify different um uh initiatives that really we want to double down on together and and support. >> So I know you have some fun news coming out. Um the we're going to be celebrating the 10th anniversary of your color of the year program. So why don't you tell us a little bit about that? >> Yeah, so we're super excited about our our color of the year. Um you know, the re the way we we're celebrating our 10 years. Uh so we so this year or for the 2027 color of the year it'll be our 10th year launching um color of the year and really the whole reason why we started with color of the year is kind you know what we were talking about is how do we add value to consumers journey? How do we make them feel more confidence about a color? Um the color of the year process is, you know, a 9 to 10 month process, sometimes even longer. Um based on all the things that go into deciding on what that color of the year is. Um and it starts with, you know, global trend spotting where we're looking at what's happening, you know, in Europe and all of that. Uh to understand what's happening within the home space, what's on the horizon, um to be really trendy with, uh within the home category. We obviously with our partnership with Home Depot, we have a lot of insights or what's happening within other categories within the home. Um and then we have a lot of our own data as well that that gives us um an understanding of where behaviors are going from a a color perspective, Hue family standpoint. So we kind of take all of that and work really closely with Home Depot to really determine what that color of the year is. um and we see great results from it um each year and that's why we continue to build on it because it not only is a great way for us to get out there from a uh you know brand standpoint and provide this news and provide this inspiration but we see it transact and you know the dis the color data that we get um obviously from from our partnership with the Home Depot and we see great results every time we launch a color of the year and and people are really gravitating towards it and they're looking at Bear for that color inspiration and that color confidence. And so, um, so we're super excited. It's going to be it's going to be another great, uh, great launch that we have coming up. >> Can you tease what that color is? >> I think I can because I believe I know I I believe he said, yeah. So, um, our 2027 color of the year is, uh, grounded, which is a more of this olive green, um, that really is all about, uh, kind of bringing in nature and bringing it indoors. Um, and we're really excited about this like rooted renewal of really being able to uh, you know, ground. Uh it's it's more of the sentiment that we're seeing consumers really want to understand how could they you know that emotional connection that we're talking about. Um bring that bring that color into their space that creates this emotional feeling of just calmness of something that feels a little bit more inspiring. It's not just you know a a standard neutral. It's something that provides a little bit more color in the space. So we're super excited about that and and what it's going to bring to consumers homes. Um, so yeah, we're we're really excited about the uh the the new color of the year. >> Well, I'm excited, too. I I love that. It feels very organic, and I love that you term rooted renewal, which is which is phenomenal. So, um, congrats. That's exciting. Can't wait to see it. And really, the last question, Andy, is who's next? Um, you know, thank you for being part of this and thank you for being a marketing Vanguard member, I should say, as well. Um, but who should I bring on the podcast? Who's somebody that you would love to hear from? And this can be a CMO that you know really really well or it can be somebody that you um admire from afar and you just think the work they're doing is extraordinary. >> I would highly recommend uh Molly Batten from uh from Home Depot. I know that seems very uh very natural, but she is amazing. She's an amazing partner. She's doing some incredible things for the brand, not only from a bear partnership perspective, but just really overall from an industry perspective. um across digital innovation, across the consumer shopping experience and really what she's doing within the the sports marketing space. So I love always to uh to get uh her perspective on things and I think she can obviously bring a lot of excitement to uh to your podcast. >> Excellent. Well, I will be reaching out. Um and in the meantime, Andy, thank you so much uh for joining me. Um have appreciated it. I look forward to our next conversation. Hopefully we can have one in person next time. So >> I love it. Yeah. Thank you so much, Jenny. I appreciate it. >> Thank you for listening to Marketing Vanguard, part of the AdWeek Podcast Network and Acast Creator Network. [music] You can listen and subscribe to all of AdWeek's podcast by visiting adweek.com/mpodcast. Stay updated on all things AdWeek Podcast Network by following us on Twitter at ADWeekpodcast. And if you have a question or suggestion for the show, send us an email at podcastweek.com. Thanks for listening.