Who keeps rainforests standing? Land Dialogue session at London Climate Action Week 2026

under significant pressure. So it's important today as we discuss this to understand that governance does not begin when there is formal recognition. Formal recognition of tenure matters deeply. It can protect territories. It can strengthen the ability of communities to make decisions and create legal conditions for long-term stewardship. But it does not create governance from nothing. In many places, governance systems have existed for generations long before the law recognized these forests. These systems that you're going to hear about today are practical. They are lived. They include territorial rules. They include community meetings. They include collective decision making. They demonstrate intergenerational leadership. They demonstrate practical monitoring and responses to threats. They shape how communities use their forests. They demonstrate how conflicts are handled and how decisions uh are made over time. This connection is at at the heart of what we are going to discuss today. So whether whether communities continue governing these territories in practice over time depends on how we treat the processes that we present in our current reforms. What is important is that whatever is done within communities, whatever is done in spaces that you don't see is responsible for the forests uh remain standing and extending the benefits beyond single territories. So as we prepare for this discussion, we often ask what do communities need to protect forests. But perhaps for us, one of the questions for us today is what does it take to support the governance systems that are already doing this work so that they get better so that they provide even longer benefits than we have already experienced. So today we will hear experiences from the Amazon, the Congo and Southeast Asia. And I hope that this conversation gives us the opportunity not only to discuss what keeps forests standing, but to also listen carefully to the people who have lived and worked with these decisions every day. I want to thank you all for being here to listen to this conversation and please provide all the necessary attention to the ones who live the practical experience of making forest stand through their daily lives. Thank you very much. [applause] >> [clears throat] >> Thank you so much Margaret um specifically for reminding us that whenever we talked about rainforest we talk about a lot of it right particularly when it comes to climate action the fact is that like Margaret said we have indigenous communities afro descendants local communities who have been looking after them maintaining them and governing them without any proper support sometimes without legal recognition sometimes under extreme pressure where what can we learn from them and how can we support them so it's not that there is no governance there is a lot perhaps we just haven't captured them enough so I'm going to spend a little bit of time just explaining to you a little bit about what how the session is going to work this morning because it's going to be a little bit different from the kind of panel discussions that you are more familiar with something called fishbowl dialogue I am sure some of you in this room are familiar with that um format. Can I just see a a show of hands to those who Great. So there's already a fair number of you who are familiar with this format. But for those of you who are not, the whole idea of the fishbowl format is this, you know, boundary and the distance that you normally have between the speakers and the audience is supposed to blur sort of over time. So normally what you would have is that you will have speakers sitting in a circle at the center of the room surrounded by the audience and the idea is that you get to experience the conversation up close right almost like watching fish in a boat hence the title but the room today is set up a little bit differently. So we're going to have the speakers on the stage but the spirit is exactly the same. The conversation is going to develop over three or more rounds depending on the time we have and the speakers are going to change with each round and at some point I'm also going to ask people in this room and those who are joining us online to sort of step in and contribute as well. Does that make sense so far? Okay, great. Now for this morning's session, this is how exactly it's going to work in practice. Round one, we're going to have a slightly more traditional format. We're going to have three speakers on the stage. They're going to share stories um from their territories they're from or work in. And then I have a follow-up question to each of them as well. And then once round one is over, they'll return to their seats. And then for round [clears throat] two, we're going to bring in another set of speakers, different voices. These will be territorial leaders. And we've already invited two territorial leaders or people from territorial leadership organizations to reflect on what we've already heard. There are three seats. So yes, there is going to be one seat empty for somebody from a territorial leadership organization or territorial leader in this room to join them. And then for the third round, we're going to open the circle further to funders, supporters, you know, people who've been working with these organizations. They will then again reflect on what we've heard and at some point I'm going to bring in reflections from people who are joining us online. Again, all clear? Yeah. Okay. So, unlike the more formal panel discussions, there's going to be a bit of movement, a bit of flow. There may be a little bit of a mess at some points, but we're just going to go with it. Okay. Now, before we start, last thing. Um, I just want to get a sense of who is in this room because that will help us draw people in as the conversation develops. Can [clears throat] I get a show of hands as to who here in this room works directly with or for indigenous and local communities in the forest context? Show of hands, please. Great. Okay. What about those from funders, donors, those with perhaps the capacity to direct capital? Show of hands. Great. Fantastic. What about those from policy, government, uh, research, advocacy backgrounds? Show of hands. Okay. Not a lot, but that's that's still some. Yeah. And who among us is pretty new to all of this? Still exploring the whole topic of territorial governance? Anybody who's brand new to this, welcome. Right. Now that we have a sense of who's in the room and it's a really good mix, which I think will be really helpful for the conversation to develop, we're going to kick off the conversation. Now when we ask who keeps rainforest standing, what we're actually really asking is who is managing these forests on a day-to-day basis and who makes the decisions over them and how do we make sure that these decisions by indigenous communities, afroescendants communities and local communities hold over time even as outside pressure comes in. Well, we have three amazing speakers who are going to be answering some of those questions and I'm going to introduce them in alphabetical order to be fair. So, Professor Alons Mindo is the director of Tropen Boss DRC, a role he has held since 2017. Alance, please join us on stage. And now Alons is a human rights activist since the early 1990s and has more [clears throat] than 30 years of experience working with national and international NOS's. Next we have Patricia Suarez Torres, the advisor to the National Organization of Indigenous People of the Colombian Amazon or OPIA as we [applause] know from some of us. Now, Patricia is the leader and defender of human rights and territorial rights and comes from the indigenous muri people from the department of Amazonas in Colombia. Last but definitely not the least, we have Aruka Zolulingi, Secretary General of the Indigenous People's Alliance of the Archipelago or Aman Aman for short. Aman for short. [applause] Now, Ruka is from the Tayan indigenous group from Sului in Indonesia. The first question that I have for all three of you is pretty much the same and you have five minutes to answer the questions. I'd like all of you to paint a picture of what forest governance looks like on the ground in the place where you are. Share a story with us of you know from the territories that you work in or your organization support that show us when there are big decisions to be made around forest governance, who is making the calls, who sits at the table and how do you make sure that Good morning everybody. >> Thank you so much for inviting us to be here and participate in this space. I'd like to send greetings on behalf of the 64 indigenous peoples that live in the Colombian Amazon. It's an honor for me to be here in this space with you. In my community, we say that there are people who are born to speak, to contribute via speaking. There are other people who are born to contribute via doing. And I was born to contribute via doing. And something is happening in my territory today because those of us who are born Kadu are uh turning up in these spaces to join in with the voices to spread the word about needing to connect with the Amazon. So I think unfortunately Margaret has said everything I wanted to say but I that just goes to show how important and valuable it is because it reminds us that all of us indigenous peoples are connected no matter where we come from. Uh so it's also important to say that governance uh didn't is nothing new to uh indigenous peoples uh in the Amazon. We've always been there. We've always had our own governance systems. Just imagine that at the moment in these regions among those indigenous peoples in those regions of the uh Colombian Amazon there are traditional authorities. There are uh wise people who have systems of knowledge, systems of governance in place uh and that is how and why they have been protecting and doing the work that they do and that is why we are here today as well to share that with you. I also wanted to say that the governance system that we participate in that we engage in has resulted in the fact that today the Colombian Amazon is a green territory. When you look at a map of the Colombian Amazon, you'll see green areas where n 93% of the space is covered by forest. It's green jungle and it's uh the biggest protected area in Colombia as well. And uh what we do with the support of many of you we are protecting over 97 million hectares and that is uh under the guardianship of indigenous peoples. Now regarding the question who makes the decisions in the case of indigenous peoples the decisions are not made by one single person. Uh it's the result of a process a series of rounds that have been established uh from a cultural setting and now from a political setting as well. So uh now the decisions that have been made in the by the indigenous peoples in the Amazon uh have worked. We can see that and as a result of that we have a green forest that is still standing. Uh when it comes to decision making in our territories uh we have some roles uh assigned by among the traditional authorities. uh their administrative roles. Um there are the wise people that have specific roles and what that does and thanks to them uh we have a governance system in place. If we miss one of them then our governance uh doesn't work as well but thanks to them we are able to make decisions that contribute to keeping our forests alive. The story that I wanted to share with you today actually it's not a story it's what we do in many of the Amazon territories. Uh what we do is we organize a dance in our communities and to organize a dance there is a process that needs to be followed. There's uh preparations that need to be done that involve all of the members of the community. Every member of the families and every and the members of other communities as well. Each one of us plays a specific role in ensuring that this dance uh is performed and this process can't isn't just seen or the dance isn't just about the moment when the dance is performed. It starts beforehand. It's when uh you sew the seeds to prepare for the food. It's when you prepare the food and then of course it culminates in the dance and then after the dance we have an evaluation process as well. We talk about how it went. So I can see that my time is running up. So just to end uh the message, what was my message to you? I wrote it down cuz I didn't want to forget. The forests uh remain standing because indigenous peoples exist because we have systems of knowledge and governance in place. If the world wants to protect the forests, they need to protect indigenous peoples and our systems of knowledge and our systems of governance that are ensuring that our forests remain standing and our forests that are at risk at the moment. Thank you very much. actually. Um, okay. Okay. So this second question that you've asked me has also given me an opportunity to talk with all of you here because this is a topic uh that actually came to the table last year uh when the recognition was made within the framework of a decree um a decree of the UTI but it wasn't born there. Uh for over 30 years we the indigenous peoples have been struggling for recognition of our territories as ETIs despite the fact that uh in the 1991 constitution of Colombia uh it was established that there should exist communities departments and ETIs but uh unfortunately it wasn't implemented fully. So uh for years now uh in uh we've been fighting but in and in 2018 we achieved a decree uh 62 632 uh that um led to the implementation establishment of ETIs but it depended a great deal on political will whether that was actually uh advanced and implemented. So that's externally but internally within our peoples we continue to administrate our territories. In Colombia uh we say that we're not beyond talking about administrative resources, economic resources, we talk first and foremost about how the territory is administered and then we think about what is needed to continue to further that administration. uh the when it comes to ETIs in 2025 thanks to this degree um these ETI uh were recognized and this is what it's something actually that we've been doing for years but what's new uh the new thing is the fact that we've been able to take on new competencies that we weren't taking on before. uh uh so the competencies for governments and resource administration and this ETI process as I said it's not new it wasn't born with this decree we had been practicing this uh for years uh but what do we have now now there are 22 indigenous territories uh that are working towards this political proposal Um many of them are currently uh working on centralization with administrative acts. Uh another others are working towards that. Uh but the 12 of those that are still working to do that are are suffering difficult uh situations because of the distances they they're in from the government. there's difficult political situations and the difficult security situation as well is preventing them from being able to advance uh more quickly. But I would say that this is an opportunity for indigenous peoples and a very good experience for those who want to know more because it allows uh indigenous peoples to really practice uh their uh governance systems and self-determination as peoples. But it also uh enables us to coordinate with entities of local and national government. Uh and it also allows indigenous peoples to be in decision-m spaces where often decisions are made about us. Uh and previously these spaces didn't work because decisions were made about us without us. Uh so uh the message I'd like to share with you that I have written down here is uh and that I would like you to take home is that uh indigenous governance is nothing new. It has always existed but with this new political proposal it's better recognized and strengthened and it will help us to continue to maintain the forest standing because we are now able to say when and what actions we want to take to keep the forest standing in the territories. Thank you. Yes, thank you very much. Um if I I look at the the governance of forest in in DRC in and in the region where we are working now I see that there is a first in in terms of regulation there there is a a dual legal system. So we have this uh customary law and we you we also have the uh the modern uh laws and according to the the customary laws the the normally the uh the traditional chiefs and the communities the elders and the the community assembly should make the decision normally. But this has been destroyed since decades during the uh the colonialism and uh also by the state with a very u um centralized system of governance. So uh definitely only the one who are making decision on forest are the these customary chiefs and uh the uh the administ the the admin the civil servant and the politicians. So the communities are make as they say kicked out I would say from this uh uh decision making process in uh in forestry and um and you also have this uh uh uh protected area where they remove people from the uh the space where they are supposed to to live. They have been living there for generations. Uh uh uh these are the how the things are going. And to to to comp to make it more complex, you have this the forest according to the Congalles law is a is a a a share uh a area of shared competencies between uh uh the the states, the provinces and also the uh decentralized entities. So you have three uh uh legal entity the for the modern states who are competing to to manage the same for. So you have you can have kind of situation where there is a the the national ministry of forest have made a decision on a forest and you see that the the provincial governor has made also another decision and then it results in conflict. So uh and sometimes people the the communities and the IPS they they are they are surprised to see that their forest has been uh uh allocated to someone to a foreign companies to a big company. So uh it's it's a very uh complex situation and I would say uh uh in the uh the the under the customary laws the only now who are mastering the this uh this decision making are the traditional leaders uh with also some big men uh I would say the elites from this community some of them are not living even the in the landscape they are living in the cities but they are still influential so they are collaborating with the uh this traditional customary chiefs and uh uh the the uh the communities are away. So this way of governing I would I would not say it's it's governance because governance means inclusiveness governance means legitimacy governance means accountability uh and uh and for this if you look at this no none of these uh uh criteria uh uh is is met then we should say only it's it's a management simple management uh uh top down management so that's what I would say if you look at the uh the forest governance today uh that's how it looks Yeah, >> particularly how you talked about, you know, governance with like three key things, right? Legitimacy, accountability, and and and and inclusiveness. Um, and you talked about how sometimes communities get kicked out. And I want to now ask you about uh community forest concessions because a lot of the times when we talk about protecting forests, right, often times we see that they then turn into national parks and then the communities get kicked out. But from my understanding, community forest concessions work almost like the the opposite where the communities are in charge. So, Alans, can you explain to us what those community forest concessions are and what are the what are the benefits of this model in the long run for both the forests and the communities? >> Yes. Okay. Thank you very much. So you see the the um the the um during the before that we we have the state coming in with uh uh taking also the property of the forest and the underground because that's the law you say that all the the soil the forest and the underground belong to the state. So before this this event the communities were the owner of the forest and the land everything belonged to the communities and now with this community forest reconcession is a kind of uh let's say going back uh giving control of forest and property ownership of forest giving them back to the communities that means that community take control it's it's there is a a kind of power shift power of on on land on forest is back to the communities and it's forever because the the according to this reform that has been made in uh in uh uh uh some years ago uh they say that the the um the concessions are issued to a community up to uh uh 50,000 hectares of forest um forever and for free. So when the community they they they they are they are issued they are granted uh uh this uh concession then they become the the their own uh uh let's say uh owners of this forest. They they they can make uh simple management plan for their forest and then make allocations decide on on their forest. And what is also good for this this point is in terms of governance there you have real governance. You have uh uh different uh uh entity which are in charge of governance of this uh this concessions. You have the uh the the the local uh committee for the management and the people for this one they are elected by the community members. The committee member they elect the ones who have to manage the forest day per day. And what is something very interesting we see that during this process of elections you have even what we we used to call social uh uh uh let's say cadet who are elected and they are managing the forest you have women leading some of chairing some of these committees we have also uh young people leaving this the some of these so uh uh and they are accountable to the communities and the the the traditional chief who are managing the community are no longer the one who make decisions on the forest. So it's now collective uh uh action, collective decision uh inclusiveness and also legitimacy because people they recognize that that's and it changes a lot of things because for them according to their cosmogy forest is not something out of them. They are part of the forest. They are part of the nature. And so when they get control on this forest then it improve also because for them it's not only presenting protecting forest it's only it's protecting themselves because they are part of the nature they are part of the forest that's why you see that in this concessions the the the biod biodiversity is coming back and also you see that forest are better protected uh I would say for instance for the the the ones we are we are following uh we see that they allocate at least 70% of their concessions for conservation. You see that and conservation for them it's not it's not only for biodiversity but it's also for cultural purposes uh these for uh uh ritual things all these things okay so I see that time is over so thank you very much >> thank you very much [applause] >> Ruka I turn to you to hear a story about territorial governance in in your area >> yeah Um, >> yes. Thank you very much. I will speak in Indonesian language. Okay. Interpreter here. >> [snorts] >> So the movie that we play yesterday morning, I think some of you still remember the movie. It was about kids swimming in the river. The story about this river or how the indigenous people protect the nature, protecting the people, protecting the future. We have several friends who are here who already visit UT's river. We have one Martinez. We travel to Udy River around 2012. We also have Jin Corus. By the way, I would like to announce to everyone that my sister J is the member of the UN permanent forum on indigenous issues. Could you please stand up? So yes, this is in corpus from Asia and also we have Ken. Do we have Ken in this room? Yes. already visit Uti's river before and also experienced that what we call indigenous legal system and governance is real. It's not what being romantized so far in the fairy tale. It is real. Why it is real? Because in our livelihood as IPS we don't see the different between political, social, cultural and economy but everything complete each other integrated and connected. The legal system and indigenous system is not only regulate the human relation but also regulate the relation between human nature environment including with animals, trees, ants and also regulate the relationship between the one who's still living and the spirit. it in July. Lintang the one that I mentioned about this river it only one out of seven system of indigenous governmentance that located in 50,000 hectare area that consists seven communities and their work in well for the last more than 40 years they are under the logging company, mining, palm oil, [snorts] plantation, everything, orange plantation and so on and so forth. And now [snorts] there are a lot of people who come in with ecosystem restoration. We don't know what they want to do because we still have good ecosystem. Maybe they want to cut down the tree first and then they do restoration and also compete with carbon projects. So now the most challenging one is the people who come and promise that if you accept carbon market and then the money will fall from the sky like the trees that falls down from the tree uh like the leaf fall down from the tree. Everyone needs money. If your children are sick, you need money. School also needs money. Of course, it will be easier to be tempted. Would this river have more than 1 million metric ton of carbon? I don't know about the emission of one small country. Maybe in the same amount, but that's river. Everything being regulated, it's not only protecting the river but also the people including the agriculture system that using fire to burn but don't cause any haste issues. Harvest in certain time they have ritual. They are the people who can smell where the wind blows and also experience and can feel the humidity by using their fingertip and because they are connected with the ancestor. So the governance also regulate when we should start the ritual, when we should start planting, when we can go into the forest including which river that you can use for a shower and which river that you need that you can drink and also when you cannot visit the plantation because there is a protection from the ancestor is happening. And if you do that when the protection is happening you will be considered you can get sick or even this your spirit can be taken by the ancestor. So this is what makes the indigenous system very close to the livelihood in the generation being and that makes 50,000 hector of forest still protected and still can be enjoyed by the UT rivers community. Thank you. >> [applause] >> Um, it's very very concerning situation in your area that what you have just described. I do have a follow-up question uh which is slightly different in in the sense that a single forest area in Indonesia can come under so many different governance systems and jurisdictions. Right? So we're talking about um you know indigenous system, we're talking about district, provincial, provincial, national and even conservation governance systems. How do indigenous peoples you know in your area how do they navigate these overlapping systems and how can they still make sure that they still have authority over their territories? >> Yeah. These are the preliminary generation for indigenous mapping. We started around the 80s and the '9s and they use while Indonesia sometimes people act they we only talk about the bad influence of technology to indigenous people try to make us fight the modernization but in Indonesia as IPS we use technology for as our weapon including to do digital mapping remote sensing thing. This is already being implemented by Otic River and Jalai Lindang since the beginning for the last 40 years and that's why all the memory all the history from their land keep being shared and remembered and also the donation that's where indigenous government works because it's already agree all the space to We manage all the space that considered sacred from the ancestor where they protect the water and this is something that we need to follow. August 2019 we took a group of youth from all over the world including from Nepal, Russia from all region to visit Utikara. And on the last night they were outside and one of them said that if all I living like this and then we all be in a happy and peaceful world the government only bring problem and issues and [snorts] that's what happened river because forest governance is not only about forest governance but also including land governance. Indonesia very complicated. Indonesia is only divided into two areas forest and nonforest area and after that they divide it into conservation national park the one that can be utilized or nonforest area. So ut river and jalang lintang is one indigenous area that being divided into four governance based on the government instruction. Some in consider as nonforest area. One is considered as forest areas and also divided into protected forest, production forest and so on and so forth. So they keep trying to do everything. They can change everything all the time. But why what they giver is important because from the beginning they already have the map. And every time a company wants to come in, they don't want it. They reject that. The only thing that they want is how to be left alone. That's why in Aman our work is to ensure the map still being respected and held and the government needs to recognize that the forest area needs to be returned as customary forest based on the constitutional court decision. Indigenous customary forest belongs to IPS. So all the forest governance category only one that actually apply customary forest and that's why almost half of Jalai Lintang area already return as customary forest because some of them still under threat due to no legal recognition. This is our current issue. We have another issue. There are a lot of NGO promising social forestry. [snorts] So it's already belong to the IPS but now they want to have permit for social forestry and carbon. [snorts] So this permits are one of the issue in Jalin Tangai Uti River. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. Thank you. Can we give a round of applause to our first round speakers [applause] please? Please, you can return to your seats, but please leave the microphones uh on your seats if you can. >> Um, now we've heard >> great. Thank you everybody. Now, we've heard, you know, very different and powerful accounts from three different parts of the world, right? The Amazon, the Congo Basin, and Southeast Asia. And there are two things that have already sort of struck me in that these systems are neither simple nor static and it's not a single leader or person or a piece of law that is keeping that governance system going. It's so many there are so many layers to it and there are so many different challenges and that's what we're going to be exploring in round two where we are going to not just look at how decisions are made in these governance systems but what make these decisions endure. how do they hold and we're going to ask territorial leaders um to come [clears throat] and talk to us um about that. Now I would like to bring in our second group of speakers and can I invite to the stage um Darl Monier who is from the indigenous peoples and local network for the management of forest ecosystems of central Africa. Thank you dear. [applause] Now deal is deal is from the Bambuti indigenous community. We also have Levi Sukre Romero co-chair [applause] co-chair of the global alliance of territorial communities GATC and general director for the Mesoamerican alliance of peoples and forests. Levi comes from the Bribery Talamanka indigenous community of Costa Rica. You may notice that there is still a seat um empty here. Is there anyone in this room perhaps a woman or a young person who is part of a territorial leadership organization who might be willing to share their lived in experiences and respond to the questions the prompt that I have? There is still one seat if anybody wants to >> [laughter] >> And also Ruka, you've already spoken. Is there anyone if if there are no female or young leaders, anybody else who might just want to from a territorial organization who might want to to to join? This is your opportunity to to share your thoughts. >> Great. >> Perfect. Thank you. COME ON UP. >> [applause] >> PLEASE take a seat. Now the question that I have for all of you is when you look at communities, right? We've talked about how decisions are making and how we get everybody to agree. But when you look at communities where there is strong territorial governance year after year, not just a one-off thing, but it is something that has been built over the years. What's the secret ingredient? What is it that helps keep this community strong? Um, Dio, can I actually start with you first? Thank you very much. I am pleased to be here. I represent Central Africa and the Congo Basin in the DRC in particular. The question is I believe too deep to in the sense that decisions it's it's up to us when we make a decision it affects directly our dependency our private lives and this is Sorry if you understood what the previous person said to review the legal mechanisms in place when making decisions which I believe have some impacts on how decisions are being made in con in connection to U IP systems for quite some years now. I can I can assert that we have been in a situation when other people will take decisions via the legal legal arguments. The states would decide on our property without involving us. But thanks to the community uh system forest community on the low we are looking at how we can internalize our traditional mechanism for decision making. So we transmit orally, we transmit visually which matters which matters to us which important for our sensibility and is part of our life connected to our lives our forest our land or our identity [cough] to preserve and govern it. We have traditional institutions in place and these are here to inspire implementing mechanisms for decisions made by the whole community via customary rules and traditional rules which have been established and unknown by everyone. This is what I can add uh terms of sustainability of the system and the intergener intergenerational transmission of her knowledge. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Apologies for that. Thank you very much. I know you said that the question was complicated and difficult but I think you did a fantastic job answering it. Um Levi, can I come to you next? Levy, sorry. [clears throat] >> I agree with DL that the question was a very deep one. And to answer it, I'd like you to help me. And to do that, I'd like to ask you a question so that you can understand my answer. Which of you would destroy the only house you have to live in? For us, we believe that the forests will be conserved if the people want to conserve them. If you look at the three pledges made at the COP, this concept or this reality, the fact that the forests will be conserved if the people want to if they continue to live well in them will will become reality if the three pledges are maintained. If you look at the three pledges uh from the COP 30, the FTFG, FCLP, ATF, um what's going on with them? We need to recognize the fact that the TFF very timidly recognizes uh the indigenous peoples. it and it recognizes the need for direct investment but a very low direct investment to maintain the forests. That is why we in the GATC via the Shandai mechanism are working on how to measure the impact of this low direct investment percentage the 20% on indigenous peoples and on our grounds because we want to share it with you because what we need is for the next pledges in the next few years are not measured only in the quantities of forests but in how many peoples live in and around those forests. So how do we do that in our communities? And that's the answer to your question. And here I share uh and agree with you how deep this issue is. But I'd like to summarize in four points. Um an secret ingredient said our facilitator. Well, the first point the first ingredient let's say is uh the the daily practice of our ancestral traditions in our communities. The second ingredient is inclusive dialogue. Inclusive dialogue among our leaders, with young people, with women, uh with leaders in the territories and that is what allows us to engage in governance that go beyond the laws that are imposed on us. These are dialogues uh that enable us to really govern well. The third ingredient is uh is the use of ancestral practices in our production uh practices. You will not find us working on monocrops uh full of chemicals. And another very important point which isn't ancestral which comes from nature and that is the dialogue every day over and over again that we try and engage in with our [clears throat] governments. Today we are going to try and do it. Tomorrow we're going to try and do it again. And we do that year after year. And that enables us uh to fulfill our functions. And there you have the four ingredients uh to give you a concrete a specific response to your question. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very Thank you very much. And you know that's very tangible set of ingredients that you have just given us and taught all of us what are the things we need to be considering when we think about how to strengthen territorial governance. Can I ask you to introduce yourself briefly and perhaps reflect on what they have said or to answer the question if you have other secret ingredients that you also want to share. Good morning. My name is Kasiki Freddy Pato from southern baya from the Porto municipality where the first round table in Brazil took place in the 1500s gathering with the indigenous peoples. We used to manage our territory and when we were invaded and colonized by the Portuguese, when our territory was colonized, we were deprived of our management of the territory and they brought their traditions and they entered our homes freely. They remove our dialect, our languages and they even uh silence our traditions and our culture. And if we were forced to speak a foreign language and we were deprived of our right to keep our beliefs and to keep our cultural beliefs. And over time in southern baya, the Pato people, we we were not able to leave but only to survive because of discrimination, because of massacres, unfair political conditions in our territory. We had to even donate our homes. And now our youth is seizing the opportunity to go to university. Now we know about our own constitutional laws and about laws as a whole. And now we can recover our autonomy in our territories for political management and for the livelihoods of our peoples. So as my colleague said, our home is our forest. The forest is our home. The forest is our home and our life. If we don't have that, if we don't keep it standing and the if the forest is not protected, if the river and the sea are not protected, if our home is not protected, including the wildlife, if they are not protected, nothing will be built and developed. If we don't keep everything standing, the Patra people have a protected area of 827,000 hectares where indigenous people live, traditional communities live, and they value life. They acknowledge life. And it's been scientifically proven that indigenous peoples and traditional communities, we promote the continuity of life on the planet by protecting nature. Otherwise there won't be any inhabitants on earth without indigenous culture because we find remedies and medicines in our forest and we find the spiritual balance for our people and we also use the forest for our livelihoods without degradation. We also develop ecological tourism and the well-being within our territories as in patio people from southern bay and we are now surviving. We've been surviving for many years in spite of colonization and I'm happy to keep extending our home, our life, our territory with land marking as well. Thank you so much. [applause] >> Thank you very much for all of your contributions. May I now ask you to return to your seats? Do you leave the microphones? Um, now we've again heard from different people who are working in the different types of governance systems and we've heard that a lot of this is built over generations, right? over many years and it's based on relationships, institutions and trust and it can be really hard to replicate but I think there are a lot of ways that can be done to support the establishment of those or continued you know building of those relationships and trust. So for this round I'm going to open up further but before we start the next round I'd actually like to bring in some reflections from people who are joining us online. We have over 100 people who are watching us online and we I'm going to read out some reflections from them. One of one is very very short um of somebody from um based on on your words from EDHF said depressingly common experience in India as well. So there's a lot of I guess um solidarity [laughter] in terms of uh um um less than ideal experiences. But we also have um comments from this is from Sarah Tolbert online in response again to Alons. In my experience with community forest concession in Eastern DRC is that even though the community forest concession are technically free in reality they're very expensive to apply for which is why as of today every community forest concession has been created with an NGO. NGO plays a necessary but sometimes problematic role in these concessions because NOS's control what information communities get about community forest concessions and because of this I've seen NOS's have made decision-making power than the communities which is you know not ideal. Um there is also a question although we're not doing a question answer but I will read it out anyway. What are some of the examples of the vested interests of the communities that are responsible for active participation in conserving forests? Something to to think about. We've heard from people who are in the forest governance systems. Like I said, for round three, we're going to expand it a bit further and we're going to ask funders, partners, researchers who are in this space. And the question that we have for you or the prompt that we have for you is that based on everything that you have heard, what do you see are the key things that truly strengthen local governance and what could be doing more to support this going forward? Now to answer this question, I'd like to invite one invited speaker and two more from this room. Um, first I'd like to invite Sergio Guzman from the local communities of Pitan in Guatemala and the manager of Guate Carbon for Akafob, PLEASE. [applause] [applause] NOW, can I get two more speakers from the floor? Whether you are a fun please great a funer uh a researcher you know just a conservation partner this is your chance to share your reflections. It would be really great if we could get a female speaker please. Yes. Perfect. Great. Yay. [applause] Right. I'm going to repeat the question again just uh uh to be safe based on everything that we have heard so far. What do you see are the key things that truly strengthen local community you know governance and what could be doing be doing more to support this going forward? Sergio, can I um ask you to start first and then I'll ask you to um introduce yourselves as well as as we come to the other speaker. Okay, thank you very much. Good morning everybody. I'm from the forest uh community association in Guatemala. Uh there we have 24 forest and community associations. We're a member of the AMBB, the Miss American Alliance of Forests and Peoples. Uh and we have been supported by various donors. So the event organized today by tenure facility Ford foundation uh is very timely and there are many that have worked with us and supported us over the past 25 years. Now what has been done thanks to this support? Well several of our colleagues here today have said that forests are where the people are and that's the case in Guatemala too. If you look if we look at a map of the world and we look at the satellite images where are the forests? Where are the green spaces? It's where the indigenous peoples live. It's where the local communities live. The Guatemala is no exception. We have 40,000 hectares of forest, which sounds little compared to the amount in Colombia, the amount in other places that have been mentioned today. But in Central America, as we have very small countries, for us, 40,000 hectares is a lot. Uh for us our governance of the forest has worked because of supporters um that have supported the work we do and have collaborated with the work that we do. They've brought in and helped us with uh technologies, satellite images, drones to help us protect and care for the forest. Secondly, um we've had support for the land tenure model because when we don't have land tenure, then we come up against difficulties uh when it comes to continuing to protect uh it because we know that we'll be there tomorrow to continue protecting it. Um so sometimes if we're dependent on uh market opportunities like carbon credits, we don't have that stability. Uh it makes things more difficult. So that's why land tenure uh is so important. So how do donors help the model of community forest uh governance? Well, helping us in the areas of land tenure, helping us use technologies in a better way. And there's another thing as well. Whether we like it or not, we have to work with our governments. Unfortunately, government governments are governments. They're the ones that manage the territories on a political level, but who manages the territories on a territorial level are the indigenous peoples and local communities. And when we work separately, things don't work. So, I think maybe the role of donors um could also focus on closing th those links, making us work more closely. Um often donors uh uh don't like um mixing things. They say these resources can't be used in political areas but at the end of the day this is what we need to do. We need to mix and work together. Um ultimately sometimes uh all we can do is meetings. We there are limits but I think ultimately uh it's very important to maintain advocacy in all the spaces that we can. This another thing that has helped the forest governance model um is a focus on sustainability. Uh when we work with communities, we uh uh strengthen sustainable management. And what does that mean? It means supporting and focusing on trees on making sure that forests live and continue living for the next 30, 60, 90, 120 years. Forests uh are good at surviving, but when we make sure we use them sustainably, when we care for them sustainably, making sure that if we use a tree, a piece of a tree, we replace it, we will ensure that the forests continue to live for 30, 60, 90, 120 years and we if we chop a tree down and don't record register where it was, then that tree will be lost forever. So uh sustainable environmental management uh is so key on a social and financial level as well because it generates work as well and it helps communities to maintain the forest because who pays for the maintenance of the forests. The communities do the work and uh in that sense they can be remunerated or or not. Uh often we use uh different resources from the forests and then uh another thing is uh climate management and uh working with biodiversity credits and those kinds of things. So I think support in those areas are very important but as Levy said uh we can't just talk about carbon credits or uh goals or targets. We need to be talking about people as well because without people we won't be successful. Thank you. Could you please introduce yourself? And yes, I think the microphone is working. It's working. Yes. Uh, good everyone. >> Good afternoon everyone. I will speak Indonesian. Hello. My name is Parlan. [snorts] I'm the national facilator inter National Forest Initiative Indonesia. And to address the question about what should we do, I would like to reflect on the fight of the IPS in Indonesia already going for so long and very struggling. We face a lot of challenges and the challenges is not only from what they're facing on the ground when they face many companies the IPS become uh become kicked out be in the name of development such as food estate and energy and mining and also in the name of other development project and then they want to build housing complex, bridge and so on and so forth. That's why there are challenges. The first one is in the name of development. We need to support them to redefine that this is not easy. The government said that this is for the Indonesian people because this is for better development. But it actually very destroying the environment especially forest the sustainability and future but also disrupt and destroy the IP's livelihood. That's the first point and the second point. Welcome Kuka. And the second point from those struggle and fight we reflect that in Indonesia with almost 300 million population with 27,000 islands in Indonesia is not easy to do this. It means that if we want to fight for IPS, we cannot work alone. [snorts] That's why we also have example to develop the indigenous people bill. We join into a coalition and there consists more than 50 organization. But are is it enough? No. And my third point is the communication mechanism. So it's about how we can communicate everything that already being shared by kuka. For example, in one point they say about forestry, social forestry, but in the other hand they mention about customary forest. It's actually belong to the IPS. How to communicate one terminology that can basically meet all the interests in the policy by the government but also can be meet with how the standard value of IPS is definitely it's not going to be easy. It's a long and complicated process but it's not impossible. This is possible to be done if we work together. I already mentioned my three points because I have five keys. My fourth point is my fourth point is about how we can work not only in formal way but also with powerful with a powerful mechanism in the community. interfaith community because from 300 population with five religion in Indonesia there is more than 96% if we can talk with church moss with Hinduist Buddhist Catholic that can be very helpful if there is any repression to be honest Indonesia the one who support us majority are not only legal aid from NGO but we also receive legal aid from religion institution and lastly [snorts] it's about how we can establish the campaign and advocacy team that can relevant to the public that public can understand them. So we have these five keys that we can use to work together. Thank you. [applause] HELLO. First of all, I'd like to apologize for being yet another white male face. [laughter] Uh, but it is one that's grounded in very securely and spiritually in the in the Amazon forest. Uh, my name is Patrick Cunningham. Um I I'm onethird of a very small charity which works with the indigenous people of the Shingu River Basin in Brazil. Uh I'd like to broaden things out. Um we were talking earlier about governance broadly speaking. Um governance depends on a variety of things. One is the formal structures, but perhaps uh equally important or even more important is the power structures that are wielded within those formal structures. Um and I think vitally important that uh indigenous people's position uh there is recognized in terms of their relatively low power and that is partly um due to a lack of financial support. I think that um we have failed to put to to rebalance the power by supporting indigenous peoples who are on the front line adequately throughout many many many years. Um, and that's really all I want to say because I think it is by far the most important thing. We do have a structure of delivering supposedly delivering uh financial support to uh frontline indigenous peoples. uh but it doesn't work in the the uh cups and in various formal high level discussions there are pledges of hundreds of thousands millions billions of dollars of support for climate basically of the of those billions less much much much less than 1% reaches those frontline organizations That is partly due to a lack of a formal structure. It's partly due to a much two layered system by which that money goes through a number of different organizations, international, national banking, NOS's and finally what arrives at the bottom end is very little and that is something which desperately desperately needs to be addressed and it needs to be addressed from the top level but uh in full consultation with the frontline indigenous organizations who these days have the administrative capacity to be involved in that process and must must be consulted. Uh that needs funding funding for the process of delivering uh the the change that's needed in the structure uh as well as funding actually for those indigenous organizations. And I finish with that. You're holding up for Thank you very much. [applause] >> Yes. Yes, please. Thank you so much. We are going to concl. But just because the session is doesn't mean we have to stop the conversation. There's going to be refreshments outside where you can continue having these discussions. Now um I think the ending for Patrick was very timely and I think much needed. Um and there is also very very concrete reflections from this uh one of the colleagues joining us online called Patty Rahayu and gave three specific um suggestions or reflections. Number one, indigenous knowledge, values, spiritual practices and territorial maps should be documented and formally recognized as essential rights that support indigenous sovereignty. Number two, special attention should be paid to nomadic and sea-based indigenous peoples because their territories and identities are often difficult to recognize through conventional systems. I think that's a really really great point. A lot of the times we forget those communities. Um, and number three, scientific research and digital technologies can help to strengthen, preserve, and support indigenous knowledge while respecting indigenous ownership and rights. I think that while is doing a lot of work there and I think it's so important that technology it's it's it's so useful but there's a question of who owns it and who can wield it right um so I think that's a really good uh way to sort of end the discussion again I'd just like to ask you all to give a round of applause to everybody who came to the stage [applause] and also our online colleagues I'm now going to hand over to one color for the closing comments. One Carlos. [clears throat] >> Okay. If one colors unfortunately has to leave early, Margaret, could I just ask you very briefly to give some closing remarks and reflect on the conversation that you have heard? [clears throat] >> Thank you. Um first of all to say thank you for the lively discussion we've had today. Um a couple of things that stand out for us um as we leave this room. I think from all the speakers it's very clear that uh traditional uh customary systems of governance have existed and will continue to exist. What we do and how it strengthens them going forward is going to be essential to keeping forests standing. Governance that is not inclusive will not thrive and it will not move us into the future. So whatever support we provide should be that support that is going to broaden that inclusiveness. Recognizing that uh traditional practices and actions have a spiritual um grounding and a faith grounding that we are yet to exploit and we should exploit a little bit more as we go forward because it shapes knowledge. It shapes values. It shapes the essential recognition of forests as homes. And nobody is interested in destroying the home they live in. Everybody does everything to make sure the home they live in, the identity they hold is preserved and taken to the future. And lastly, technology and science is our partner. It's not our enemy. and the extent to which we are able to bring it, use it and integrate it in how we monitor, live, work with and use forests is essential to sust sustainability of the forest into the future. So thank you very much everyone who has participated and for the audience what a lively audience and our facilitator. Thank you so much for today. >> [applause] >> Thank you. >> Um [clears throat] thank you so much Margaret for your final remarks. Um what we have heard today right is when we have governance from the ground up and in practice right not from top down but when decisions are made not by people just with the formal authorities but made in conjunction with the people who are living in the places that we're talking about and decisions are made in the valleys and the forests and in community meetings. I would really like to thank the organizers of this event. You can see their um logos and names on here. The global alliance of territorial communities, the land portal, the tenure facility and the pool foundation. There will be one more land portal event um le dialogue event in the fall. So if you're interested more on land issues, please keep a lookout for them. We have come to the end of the session, but I hope this won't be the end of the conversation. Like I said, I hope you'll continue this discussion over refreshments immediately after, but also in the weeks, months, and years ahead on how best to protect the systems that we already have and how best to support them going forward. Thank you very much. It's been my pleasure to moderate this session. Woo!