When Your Spouse Won't Change: Prayer vs. Nagging

you're not there to fix them. You're not their savior. Um you're not responsible for fixing them. You're responsible for sacrificing [music] and praying for them. >> Amen. This is Dan and Stephanie Burke. Welcome to Divine Intimacy Radio. Your radio haven of rest. >> Your hermitage of the heart. >> Your monastery of the mind where we lift our hearts and minds to heaven to draw upon the wisdom of the saints. And today we are answering questions that came up at the uh summit on spiritual warfare in the family. >> Huge turnout by the way. >> Yeah, it was awesome. >> Great. And I think they can go back and try to access those talks if they can, right? >> Yeah, how do they How do producer lady, how do folks access the talks and what we're doing today cuz we're going to add to the vault uh from what we're offering. Okay, spiritualdirection.com/vault. >> v a u l t >> 2026. >> [laughter] >> I'm going to write that down just cuz we need to say it a few times. >> Okay, that's awesome. I love that. >> Spiritualdirection.com. You should see the webpage. It's very cool. >> Okay. >> Jordan's spent about 6 hours on it. spiritualdirection.com/vault v a u l t 2026. >> Awesome. >> All right, very good. So the question is and I'm you know >> Dun dun da. >> You know, I >> You should have seen the look on Dan's face when we read this question. >> [laughter] >> And I'm like, let me have it. I wanted to I want to answer this question. Anyway. >> There's a lot of implication behind that. >> [laughter] >> Uh just just so I don't disturb you while you're answering. I am going to look up a scripture verse. So >> Okay. >> But do you So this is the question. Dealing with my husband's pride and wounds of insecurity and self-worth. How to navigate healthy criticism. The line between affirming him too much. As if that's possible. Babying my husband. This is very interesting perspective and being too critical or naggy. >> Naggy? To nag or not to nag. That's this. Well, hmm. So, I'm going to start in a direction that that maybe might be surprising to some not to others. But, um what I have come to discover and I and I've also heard others speak of that is what irritates us in another um usually is what we also struggle with. >> What irritates you owns you. >> Not good English, but folks get it. >> Right. Right. Right. What frustrates you, what angers you, what uh obsesses you owns you. Owns you. So, um >> Means that's an attachment or your own disorder or what >> Right. Right. There's something in it um that the Lord is allowing you to be aware of. But, um it's probably not so much about your husband as it is about you. So, receive this with love um from a fellow sinner a fellow sinner of pride uh a fellow sinner of maybe I should call this Confessions of a Former Nagger. >> [laughter] >> I think I might write a book on that. >> Well, I can affirm that she was a pursuer. >> Yes, I was a pursuer. >> I'm not much of a runner. I'm more of a punch-you-if-you-pursue-me person, but >> Yeah. >> I never punched her. >> No. Praise God. >> Or any woman. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. So, um what I would say is there's some steps, right? There's >> [clears throat] >> there's some things that we need to deal with. First of all, we need to become who we are called to be as individuals, right? In our marriages, before we worry about who our spouse is supposed to be. >> I think somebody said something about that in the Bible. >> Yeah. >> Make sure that the beam in your own eye is removed before you start working on the speck in somebody else's. >> Right. Right. Right. And And we don't say this with criticism for you. This is just the reality of it. And we often don't >> We don't know who the you is. >> No, we don't. And And we often don't see the beam in our own eye because there's a beam in our eye. >> [laughter] >> Because we've got stuff going on and what the enemy loves to do, and And this is just so powerful, so please receive this. As you are called to pursue the Lord and that spark of love for him and that desire to follow him and that desire to come to conversion and get your life rightly ordered starts to happen and you start to focus on your interior life and start to develop a life of prayer, which I hope this person is doing. Um when you start going to regular confession, when you start receiving the Eucharist more often, what happens is is the enemy says, "Yeah, but what about him? What about her? What about your kids? What about that one over there, right?" Because what the enemy wants to do is he wants to divert your attention from what the Lord is asking of you and doing in you and calling you to to the faults, imperfections, sins, difficulties of others, right? And most decidedly in our spouse because that's really where he's going to >> And then our kids, yeah. >> Yeah, yeah. It's yeah, cuz cuz the enemy's desire is to divide you, right? And and why does he want to divide you and destroy your marriage? And why does he want to do this? Why does he want you to focus on your spouse's brokenness and sins? Real or not, right? Because all of us have brokenness. Every one of us. I don't know anybody that's walked on water except one. You know, I don't want I don't know anybody who's been created sinless um in all of humanity except two. Our Lord and our Lady. That's it. The rest of us, we got plenty of stuff in the backseat that we need to clean out and get rid of, right? And so the enemy wants to separate you because if he can get you to focus on the sins of another rather than go deep with our Lord, what he knows is if you become who you are called to be, your prayer, your sacrifices, your intercession for the other person, for your spouse, will bring about great graces. It is powerful. >> There's a corresponding There's a corre- There's a corresponding reality to that. You said your prayer will bring about the change, meaning God will bring about the change. And that's the best way to bring about change, not you and your mouth. >> Right, right, right. Prayer. >> Right. And I don't mean to say I I but it's it's you know, it's important because I think that what you know, I'll say as someone who's a leader of a community and who deals with thousands of people and deals with all kinds of issues constantly, it's shocking to me how much time people spend It's shocking and deeply disturbing cuz it because of what you're saying, how much time people spend worrying about other people's behavior. >> Mhm. >> And and when you God is constantly saying, uh they're not you they don't belong they're not yours. They're mine. >> Our spouse is not ours to fix. >> Yeah. >> Right. And and you know, I would there was a a beautiful soul who was really really struggling who reached out to me and and you know, it's like, well, how much longer do I have to put up with this? You know, how much longer do I have to put up with my spouse's behavior? >> Mhm. >> And I I know some of the inner workings of it. >> Yeah. >> And I said, until the Lord says so. >> Well, how much longer does Jesus need to put up with us? >> 7 * 70. How many times do we need to forgive our spouse? How many times do we need to pray for them? How many times do we need to sacrifice for them? And the thing is what's what's really we often forget is we chose that person. >> Right. And >> We accepted some sort of relationship with our spouse and entered into this covenant in our marriage. And the Lord's working in it. >> Right. >> You know, he's drawn you together and he's working in it to bring you both to perfection. But we have to focus on our own holiness. And as we ascend to union with the Lord by going deep deep deep into prayer, purgation, sacrifices, fasting for our spouse, and being the best wife or husband that we can possibly be, what happens is you know, the rising tide draws all ships. Is that right? >> Yeah. >> Or the right yeah. >> Or it was rising tide raises all boats. Yeah. It's because you're becoming a conduit of grace. You're not doing this with your I'm radio. I guess I'm making my hand signal. Like you're moving your lips. You're doing this two hands together praying. >> Yeah. >> Which is bringing God into the picture. But where this begins and maybe we can explore a little bit and then I have a scripture passage I want you to react to, um is I don't is what you're doing hurts me or bothers me, and I don't like it. >> Mhm. >> And I and I want to, you know, express some sympathy for that reality, because it it's it it can be an incredibly painful situation to when you're married with some to someone who's, you know, a narcissist or incredibly selfish or whatever. >> Mhm. >> Um but for me, cuz I I've had an a relationship before Stephanie where that was the case, and I'm not picking on the person. They suffered tremendously as a child. >> a sacramental marriage. >> Yeah. >> So So, there was a lot of uh >> Yeah. >> deficits going on there. >> And hurt people hurt people, right? So, but and they were abused. As you know, so there's all kinds of junk there. >> Right. >> But, I only began to get free of the destructive cycle when I realized I have to deal with me. >> Right. >> And in fact, that was the beginning of my ultimate freedom in saying, you know, it's it's I'm I'm not giving up, but it you know, you >> I'm going to pursue the Lord with all that I am. >> pursue the Lord with all I am at whatever you decide what you're going to do. And whatever it is that that's fine. >> Mhm. >> But, for me, as for me and my house, I'm going to serve the Lord and I'm never going to turn back. And and I made that decision actually in the hospital bed after a major surgery, cuz I had realized what I'd been doing, which is trying to solve the the dynamic in the relationship that was dysfunctional, and I realized [clears throat] I couldn't. >> Right. >> And and that I needed to pursue the Lord with all that I was and if they will follow then we remain together. They didn't. >> Right. >> Not criticizing. >> You were the head of the household. >> Right. >> And and that was that that's a different dynamic that requires a different approach, right? And and in your situation the behaviors weren't just narcissistic. >> I mean >> They were destructive and abusive. >> And and and involved substance abuse and >> All kinds of stuff, right? >> Child abuse, yeah. >> But but if like we're hearing the behavior is prideful um you know behavior whatever characteristics we don't like >> Mhm. >> then that's that those are defects sins and brokenness of another as long as they're not destructive towards us. >> Yeah. >> And I think when we get back from the break we need to since we've made the shift to to when there's a destructive behavior that's hurtful to us >> Mhm. >> that we maybe we should talk about that when we get back from the break. >> Okay, we'll do that and we'll be back shortly. Welcome back to Divine Intimacy Radio. To nag or not to nag, spiritual implications, how do we grow, survive >> To fix or not to fix. >> From a from a former nag she's got some more wisdom for you. >> [laughter] >> Oh wow. Um >> You said it earlier. >> be free and laugh when somebody says >> You said [laughter] it earlier. I didn't say it. I didn't offer it first. >> To yeah to from from uh imprudent to prudent, you know, from the formal from the from the formal imprudent to to the prudent. >> And I will attest to her I will attest to her change and because she's a type A aggressive and check you know leader person and I like that about her. Um I like her intensity. I mean, it's what's attracted me to her. Um, it's also what I needed to deal with my own junk, you know? But, I am also what she needs to deal with her junk. But, so >> Yeah. >> go back to the question you were we were addressing before the break and >> Okay. Well, you entered in you you brought into the question a dynamic that we don't know if it's there or not. >> Okay. >> And that is, you know, what if their behaviors are are hurtful to us, right? Perceived or real. Versus just an our spouse's sins, imperfections, weaknesses, you know, all of that, right? >> Mhm. >> So, so I think we explained well if it's sins, imperfections, or weaknesses in them, right? That are not destructive to us, that are not destructive to our children, you know, as far as directly, right? Maybe the example is is a is a problem. And we can talk about what to do in that that case. Um, but if they're not meant to be if they're not targeted to us in order to hurt us or tear us down or or or injure us in some way spiritually, emotionally, uh, physically, then intercession, prayer, fasting, sacrifices, going deep, deep, deep, deep in our prayer life, becoming who we are called to be makes our intercessory prayer for our spouse incredibly efficacious. >> Elizabeth Lesur comes to mind. >> she's great. Um, The Diary of Elizabeth Lesur. >> Lesur. Um, you should look that up. Great great example. Um, >> She died before her husband converted, by the way, which is important. >> Right. >> But, he read her journal and repented and became a priest. >> Right. >> was he was a he was very harmful to her emotionally. >> Yeah, I mean, for him, you know, what what he did was abuse. It was spiritual abuse, emotional abuse. He would mock her mock her faith in front of others and stuff. So so that's an example, right? And and Elizabeth, what she did is she went deep in prayer and interceded and prayed for his conversion and conversion of others. And subsequently, he ended up Um actually, she told him on her on her deathbed, "You will become a Dominican priest." And he he scoffed, and it ended up happening, you know, and and then he spent the rest of his life forwarding her cause and being a priest. So, that that's one case, right? Her life wasn't in danger. Her heart was, you know, but her life was not in danger. And the inter- and the power of her intercessory prayer for him not only changed him, it changed who knows how many souls that have read her story, listened, were affected by his testimony and and read her diary, right? So, that's one vein. The other vein is um you know, if it's just they're they're just irritating or hard to deal with or uh exhausting to be around because of their behaviors, right? That again, we have to take our eyes off the defects of our loved one and pray and sacrifice for them. Um if it becomes destructive to ourselves or to our children, you know, then that's where we need in love to have a good conversation, right? And that is not nagging. That's speaking from the heart. >> Yeah. >> Right? And that's saying, "I love you." Um first of all, are you in consolation? Is it a good time to have a conversation? >> show in itself. >> Yeah, and I think we've done a show on that, but you need to be in consolation and peace to have the conversation. >> well. >> Right? By yourselves, the two of you, not in the middle of, you know, walking down the hall or driving down the road. It needs to to be uh time alone. And having a a really holy conversation, starting with love, ending with love. And, you know, I love you too much not to to bring this to light. And you know, I I just I want to go to heaven and I want you to go with me. And I think we can grow in holiness. And by the way, the Berks have a great divine intimacy in marriage retreat. Would you go with me? Right? >> When's the next one of those? >> Um well, the next one's sold out. So, I don't want to date the show. >> But when is the one after that? >> Uh we have a lot in 2027. >> spiritualdirection.com for a list of events. >> events. So, check it out. >> Okay, there's a passage I want to get to before the end of the show. >> Okay. And right. Right, right. So, so those are the distinctions is one is praying for the individual, the other is having a holy conversation, but that's not nagging. >> Yeah. >> And once you speak the truth, you've got to let it go and not bring it up again. >> You're you're not the god of your spouse. >> No. And you're not there to fix them. You're not their savior. Um you're not responsible for fixing them. You're responsible for sacrificing and praying for them. >> Amen. >> Yeah. >> So, I'm going to read the scripture passage, but I'm going to read a translation that is true to the Greek, but has uh just some emphasis that avoids uh distractions. It's 1 Peter 3:1 1 and 2. In the same way, you wives accept the authority of your husbands. Then, even if some refuse to obey God, your godly lives will speak to them without any words. They will be won over by observing your pure and reverent lives. And And in particularly, how you deal with them. >> 100% >> Yeah. >> 100% and said another way or to add to that as an extension love builds a bridge over which truth can pass, right? And so for a wife become the best wife, become the best daughter of the king you can become, become the best wife you can possibly become. Become the best mother that you personally become. >> I want to change that phrase. >> What? >> For a husband to wife cherish cherishing builds a bridge over which truth can pass. For wife to husband respect builds a bridge over which truth can pass. >> Right. >> We should have put that in our marriage book. >> Yeah. Well, anyway, um which by the way um is all rooted in love. >> Yeah. >> Right? Because that comes from our love from God. He's the one who lays that out in Ephesians 5. >> tell you how this worked between us. Because I'm also strong willed, when you would pursue me I would I would one of two things. If it was too emotionally overwhelming, I would blue screen. If if folks don't know what that means, it's when it's the same thing that happens when you're working on your computer and something goes wrong and it starts to spin and it's no longer functioning or I would come back at you aggressively. >> Mhm. >> Um the when when you went into spiritual direction, you got some good advice about these things. Well, actually but I want to say something before that. What what happens is with a man, I think in general or stronger men definitely, prideful men definitely the more you push, the more you get pushed back. >> Mhm. >> Um the more you live a godly life, the more I was compelled to listen to you. The more The more I listen to you, the the more I'm open to you. So, it's similar like with a woman is because you're showing me respect and you're giving me space. >> Mhm. >> Or the more Conversely, the more I cherish you and treat you gently, >> Mhm. >> the more you're receptive to me. >> Yes. Yeah. >> So, we just got to understand if you don't take those right postures and you expect something different, >> Right. >> you know, you're you're just It's not going to work. And what I just read to you, even though it's a translation, is the word of God. >> Mhm. >> And it is true and it's and it's the way that we work. Saint Paul has another uh emphasis on the same thing where he he speaks about being subject to one another out of worship, which is the beginning of >> for Christ. >> Out of worship for God. >> Yeah. >> It's It's an act of worship in Ephesians 5. And that It That's washing one another's feet. That's not dominating one another. >> Right. >> That's a That's a position position of service and humility. >> Mhm. >> Um, so and and it's super hard for a spouse when you're It's both of us have experienced this. >> Mhm. >> It's super hard for a spouse when the other one's going off the rails, but we can't The other thing that is a huge mistake that we do to our spouses and our children is when they are not converted, we expect converted behavior. >> Right. Right. >> It And I I just want to say that there's not many things more stupid. Pee-wee Herman maybe. There's not many things more stupid than that. >> Right. >> in the universe. >> Right. To expect our spouses or our children to act like they're converted when they're not. >> not. And what that means is they haven't yet come to a deeper knowledge of Jesus. So, instead of working directly on their behavior, you know, say >> What's the root? >> Can we watch The Chosen together? Hey, can we go to this retreat together? Where somebody else is helping them come to really know Jesus, then they're motivated to change, you know. >> Right. And and they may say no. >> Right. And they >> They may brush that off. And if they do, that's not great, but it's okay. And and I will tell you from the beginning to the middle to now in our marriage, >> Yeah. >> um as I've pursued God with all that I am, what I have found to be the most powerful thing is to love you like crazy, cuz I do. >> Yeah. >> To serve you. >> Mhm. >> To respect you like I because I do. >> Yeah. >> Um I love our marriage. What God has given us so much. It's it's ridiculous how he's blessed us. >> It's just gotten so much better. [laughter] >> Uh [clears throat] yeah. Um yes, it has and and as you as you have changed and as you have become holier, >> And we don't run around just trying to fix each other. >> We don't. Um you know, and it's very interesting, but as we've gone through all that, what I find to often be the most powerful thing as I'm trying to love you, serve you, respect you, be the best wife I can, um pursue God with all that I am, spirit, body, mind, soul, prayer, sacrifice, fasting, and I mean real prayer. >> Yeah. >> You know, all of those things, as I do all of that to hopefully become who I'm called to be, >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> there's a simple prayer that I throw up to the Lord. I just toss it up into the air when I don't like something or when I think something's problematic and I'll say, "Lord, he's yours. You deal with this." And I let it go. >> And you know what's crazy cuz both of us pray that prayer is what's It is fascinating how often >> Yeah. >> we will watch the other come back and say, "You know what? That wasn't really quite the right way that should have come down." Or "You know, I I won't be doing that anymore." Or "This is what I've discerned." Because when we jump in the way we we're we're not learning the lesson God wants us to learn and we're inhibiting the grace. So So we've got to close now. Out of time. >> Okay. >> [clears throat] >> So until next time, may the God of peace make you perfect in holiness. May he preserve you whole and entire, spirit, soul, and body, irreproachable at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.