What Rock Bottom and 1,000 Podcast Episodes Taught Me About Life

Hey everybody, welcome to the Rich Roll podcast. We're having a ton of fun doing this podcast. [music] It's been really >> overwhelming to even imagine that it's been 14 years [music] since you launched the podcast. >> There's no better way to celebrate than to take it back to the beginning. [music] >> [music] [music] >> That's how it started. It was you and me hitting record in a warehouse on a farm on a mango farm and just seeing what would happen. There was no We weren't launching anything. It wasn't necessarily going to be a show. I didn't even know there was going to be an episode two. It was just like a fun creative experiment. >> Yeah. >> At the time >> on the sacred island of Kauaii. And it was more a response to you being landlocked and feeling totally trapped on the island. And um >> it was a it was a very interesting, special and difficult time for our family. We were under unbelievable financial duress. Finding Ultra had come out and I did my best to push that book out into the world. Um and in the aftermath of I wouldn't even call it like a book tour. like I was hustling every opportunity I could to get the word out and said yes to anybody who would talk to me or let me kind of host a small event and >> you know I showed up for more than a few like quote unquote like book events where you know two or three people showed up like that's what it was like back then. [laughter] >> Yeah. Well, there was a lot where it was just I remember I did a a signing out of Barnes & Noble somewhere in Northern California and like one person showed up. Yeah. You know, it was there was a lot of that back then. >> Um, but I was proud of the book and, you know, despite what people might think, it wasn't a New York Times bestseller. Like, it's done fine and it's been a perennial bestseller. Like, it continues to sell and find new audiences and and I think that's what I'm most proud of. But at the time it did okay, but it didn't it didn't like light the world on fire or anything like that. It's it's had a lasting impact in a in a very kind of like gratifying way, but it wasn't like a book that suddenly everybody was reading like not by a long stretch. Anyway, when that was done, we were sitting in a lot of uncertainty. Uh I was convinced that the phone would start ringing and opportunities would begin to arise. I cut ties with the law. I let my bar membership lapse and we were hurling ourselves into the unknown with a incredible amount of like faith and trust that things would work out. Uh [snorts] and they did. They just didn't they didn't work out in the way we imagined and certainly not on our timeline. And we had to endure a very protracted, extended, multi-year period of of financial difficulty. And there was a moment where we were on the precipice of our house getting foreclosed on. And out of the blue arose this very unlikely opportunity from somebody who I had met, didn't know that well, but had been um moved by reading Finding Ultra. and he offered us a position to come to Hawaii and help him figure out what to do with this incredible property that he owned, which was essentially a mango farm, an organic mango farm, but also like an event space. And he was trying to figure out what to how to like do something more meaningful with it. And for some reason, he thought that I could help him with that, even though I I'm not somebody who has any qualifications with that, >> but it was a lifeline. and a godsend uh cuz he was willing to pay us and we were literally out of money and thinking we were going to lose our house and so almost overnight we packed up our entire family including our nephew. So there were seven of us and we just moved into a yurt village on this farm not knowing if we would have a home to return to or if we would ever even return. Mhm. >> And there we lived for a number of months and I did my best to fulfill my, you know, kind of responsibilities to the owner of this property and and show up for him. Um, but I couldn't escape this feeling that um I had unfinished business. It's like I'd worked so hard to put this book out into the world and to get this message out and I desperately wanted to build on that momentum and being on a remote island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean felt like the opposite of that and I started to get island fever and I started craving connection and and a way to use my voice and podcasting was something that I had been a fan of for a very long time. I'd listened to thousands of hours when I was training for these endurance races. And this was back in like 2009, you know, 10, long before anybody I knew was listening to podcasts at a time when it was actually kind of difficult to listen to them even when you wanted to because >> there was no app on your iPhone. Like you had to go to iTunes, make a playlist, download it, and bounce it to an iPod. So you had to be very intentional, but I had gotten so much value out of it and had been so nourished and [snorts] entertained and engaged in parasocial relationships with a variety of podcast hosts that I was an early enthusiast of it as a listener. But in that period of feeling creatively um kneecapped and and sort of bereft of options or you know how to like solve this dilemma. I was like, "Well, maybe a podcast." Like, I've listened to enough of them and it didn't seem like there was that much quality programming in the stuff that I was most interested in, like change and transformation and health and wellness and improvement. There was some stuff there, but there did feel like it did feel like there was some white space there. >> And so, I was like, "Well, let me figure it out." And I spent an entire day trying to figure out how you do this and get it up on iTunes and all of that. And because um you and the boys are musicians, we happened to bring with us to this island a bunch of microphones and cords and we had a laptop and that was basically all we needed to kind of hit record and do an episode. And episode one was just you and me talking without any kind of agenda or outline just to see what would happen. Have you ever listened to that? >> Does that share your your is that >> consistent with your memory? >> Of course. I have a whole mystical lens of how things unfolded. It was quite quite profound. Um, so we had been in, you know, nearing a 9-year financial collapse and I had been in the process of protecting my house and I had gone to all kinds of lengths like filing certain papers, um, going to certain lawyers to get advice because we were unable to pay property taxes insurance um or mortgage for going on five years. >> Yeah. We hadn't paid our mortgage in forever and it was shocking that they hadn't taken the house away from us. >> Yes. And so already primarily I was shephering this this endeavor. You were training and I was tending to this process and engaging in a lot of ceremony, a lot of quantum reality, holding a vision of transcendence. Our friend Steub Bone says that I showed him what quantum physics was physically because he was around us and he watched me do it over time. >> Well, also he's in commercial real estate and he was like, "You're not there's no way you're not losing your house." >> Yes. Yeah. So, I mean, I had tried a lot of things uh that were s that were somewhere that were a bit sus and um and then finally I got the foreclosure notice and I came home and I told you and the kids that I was out of my ability and my capacity to delay this inevitable event and I said, "They're going to take our house in 30 days." And I and that was it. And we were all crying and it was very very emotional. And then I had a wave of inspiration and my resilience came back and my friend Saul Ray called me and said um Shrimati will you come and cook for my Thai yoga retreat up in ohigh um and he said I can pay you you know a few thousand and you know that was like gold to us. So, I I accepted the gig and uh I was just literally out of out of belief in my other visions and who I thought that I was. And it was probably the first time in my life that I was like, I don't know what's going on. If this house is not ours and we are being moved from it, I don't understand. So, I'm literally just going to focus all of my energy on cooking. I'm going to give all of my love and all of my focus to cooking. And when I left, I said to you, there is no way that we are being moved out of this house without an opportunity with the seven of us and who we are and what we've committed to and the the amount of heart and soul and love and dedication. I was like, there's no way. So, I went up to the Thai yoga retreat and I cooked with all of my energy. And Saul was coming in the kitchen saying like, "What are you doing? Like, people are leaving my retreat. They want to be with you in the kitchen." You know, one man wept when he ate my cheesecake. It was seriously out of control. And then he said, "Why don't you invite Rich and the kids up for the last dinner?" So, I called you and I said, "Why don't you come up?" And you said, "Babe, have you checked your email?" And I said, "No." And you said, "Check your email." So I checked it and there was a an email from Chris Jave who we had been introduced to him via email from your friend who's the architect. >> Oh, Nathaniel K. >> Yeah. Nathaniel. >> Yeah. >> And um at that time because I have this spiritual connection to the north shore of Kauaii and have been taken there six times by other individuals but even had eight trips there where I did ceremony and ritual on this specific beach. and I've had a lot of mystical experiences there. So when I saw that Chris Jab had bought Common Ground right on the Northshore Point, I replied to him, "You're at a very potent vortex and you're in a very special place and I sort of acknowledged him and made that contact." So then years later when you wrote the book and he read it, he went back to that email and he emailed >> forgot about that early email. There there has always been I've always been holding the mysticism it that has been beside you in in the endeavor of all the physical things that you did but all of that was completely present. So then um you came up we had dinner and Chris had emailed us and said I want to talk to you about a business opportunity. And then cut to the next week he was sitting in our living room at our kitchen table. We all shared a meal and then we finally we told him we'll come to Kawaii but we have to bring our nephew and we need a rehearsal space because uh we we want to rehearse music. So, we we needed those two those two things. >> And he said yes. And then overnight we're on a plane to Hawaii on this adventure. And >> it [snorts] was exciting but also confusing because at the time I'm like I don't understand why this like why are we do like >> this makes no sense. >> Like I don't understand how I fit into this guy's equation. What is the purpose of all of this? There must be some reason to do this. But in the meantime, we can treat it like an adventure. And at a bare minimum, it's going to provide the kids with this unique opportunity to kind of live more feral and natural. >> Somebody offered to pay us money for the first time in a long time. >> Of course, I mean, that was the reason. It was like this and forever like down on my knees thanking God for Chris Jab and this opportunity. And what a blessing that man was for us >> in our moment of need >> in such an unpredictable unusual way but nonetheless a very real way like it was it saved us. We needed the money desperately. He was offering it and what came with it was >> a transformative experience that gave birth to this podcast that in turn provided us with a life that you know I didn't believe was possible >> well back then. Yes. And it and it touched and activated thousands of people, tens of thousands of people internationally. I don't know how many people, hundreds of thousands of people. But it also, if you look at it, Kauaii is the energy that was underneath everything that we did because Chris Jab provided me a test kitchen on the north shore of Kauaii and a yoga space. So, you were going to meetings. I went to some of those meetings with you, but I just started cooking. So I started creating all the food that would end up becoming our three published cookbooks, >> the plant power way, the plant power Italia and this Jesus nuts. >> And I also it was the beginning of developing the innovation that would become Shrimu. So if you really look at it, Ma Kawaii, the sacred portal of Kauaii is the energy that is the foundation underneath the ritual podcast and all the food that we did, all of the plant-based offerings that we did. And um and so it was profound. It it was a foundational moment where we were living on the Northshore for a 3month period in three 30foot yurts and we were really communing with the land and having that moment and we I think we had the final meeting with Chris and it was like um you know how's everybody doing? Are we happy? And we said it was January and we had to go back because I had a court date. I had a bankruptcy court date that held in its essence the destiny of our house of what was going to happen. And um and we all agreed that that we would be back on Kawaii and meet on the on the equinox in March. And we left and said goodbye and everything was great. And we we walked in our house when we came home and we said to ourselves, "We're never leaving here again." And Chris didn't call us and we didn't call Chris. We just didn't show up in March on the equinox and no one ever said another thing about it. But we were clear that Kawaii was not our forever home for sure. >> Yeah. Um but this powerful crucible that gave birth all of these gifts. Yes. you know, that we could have never imagined at the time. And [music] >> there is a lot of >> magic and mystery and mysticism in that for sure. This episode is brought to you by Airbnb, which I use all the time because I travel all the time. And now that I'm back after back surgery to [music] being very focused on my fitness and my nutrition, it's even more important that where I stay be equipped with a nice kitchen to prepare my own meals and also be proximate to a really good gym, which means [music] it's pretty much Airbnb for me all the way, including the trip to DC that I just returned from. And when I was in the airport on my return, watching all the travelers going to and fro, I started wondering about their homes and how many of them were like the one I just stayed at, but just sitting there empty. Few days here, a long weekend there. Those gaps add up and are actually opportunities. If you're already planning to be away, whether it's for an event, work, or just getting out of town, listing your space on Airbnb, is a practical way to put your space to use and make some extra income during that time. And here's something else to think about. When big events come to your area, there are often thousands of visitors all looking for a place to stay. Hotels fill up fast, and people start looking for something a little more personal, a little more comfortable. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com/host. This episode is brought to you by Whoop, the wearable health and fitness coach that turns insights about your sleep, your recovery, your strain, and your overall health into better daily decisions. Here is a phrase I keep coming back to. We measure longevity in years, but we measure life in moments. And the older that I get, I turned 60 this fall, the more I care about the second part. It's not just about adding time. It's about the quality of life in every moment of time that I have left. And that's how I view my Whoop. I've got real goals ahead. Getting back to pain-free running and hopefully, fingers crossed, being fit and injuryproof enough to participate in the New York City Marathon this fall to celebrate my 60th birthday. But the only way I'm going to get there is by understanding my body the best I can and [music] by meeting its needs without exceeding them. Whoop prevents me from making those bad decisions. By being able to see how my sleep is trending, how [music] I'm absorbing the strain of my training to recover efficiently. I now know when to push and when to back off, which has allowed me to show up with more energy, more presence for the stuff that matters most. And that's the real promise of Whoop. Not more data, more life in your years. So check it out. Go to join.woop.com/roll [music] for 1 month free of Whoop. I've spent a lot of time talking about my Rivian, driving my Rivian, obsessively sharing photos of my Rivian on Instagram, but the best is when I hand the key fob over to someone who's never driven one, [music] and there's always this moment, that instant where they feel the acceleration, silent, immediate, and they just start laughing because it doesn't feel like any car they've ever driven before. And it reminds me, this is one of those things you really have to experience. It's not just fast, it's smooth, it's quiet, it's focused. It's the kind of movement that makes everything else feel a little outdated. And Rivian makes it easy to try for yourself. You can book a demo drive online, pick a time, show up, and just get out on the road. No pressure. So, if you've ever been curious, don't just [music] take my word for it. Go to riv.com and feel it for yourself. It wasn't on my radar to do this. I don't know that you ultimately creating cookbooks and being an entrepreneur in the plant-based cheese world was on your mind. Like none of that if you had said to us back then this is what's going to happen or this is what's going to come from this, you would have been like you're out of your [ __ ] mind. Like you know that is it has nothing to do with like what we're doing here. And that just tells me that when you I mean sometimes when you're in pain and you're vulnerable and you're kind of up against it, those those moments are what give birth to, you know, magical experiences that flow from that. But also it's a window into how we limit um our own potential and sense of possibility based upon this attachment to uh you know uh like how we think things are supposed to be or will be. You know what I mean? And I'm just proven time and time again >> that like >> like >> we're not very good at that and we should probably get out of that business. I have this this sort of experiment that I talk about u often and I say like because I like to think that I sometimes have good business ideas or I have clever ideas about names or about concepts or you know whatever products or exper experiences and the the then also there are things that have just spontaneously come into fruition into my life and also even the name manger of my new music project which was literally whispered in my ear when I wasn't even trying to name it or the name of my yet to be published memoir for the life of me that was whispered in my ear. The way that divine mother I'll call it or the breath or the cosmic force set you up in this in this situation where you were truly in your dharma or your your right place of purpose by putting you in the podcast space because you are I'm just going to say it one of the one of the best an extraordinary podcaster an extraordinary interviewer you have provided so much inspiration through these conversations, but it really is your rightful place. Like it and I don't you didn't see it. It wasn't like on your vision board. Not that your vision board, but it wasn't in your sort of hopes and dreams, but I always have this sort of idea like I wonder if the Julie that never did any of these good ideas that she thought just sat down and we just looked at the Julie that was led spontaneously through these experiences. Like which one would be more expansive? And of course, I know the answer to that. It's the one that gets out of the way, the one that releases in devotion. And I mean, it's kind of profound that we're sitting here 14 years since that, I'm going to say it's 2012 cuz I think you I think >> it was like end of November 2012. >> So, it's been 14 years. So, um the fact that you had written a book and that you had a book and yes, Finding Ultra is not a bestseller, but it's continuing to sell. it's continuing continuing to make an impact and um this I would say it takes a life to become you know and I think as modern people or humans uh living the life you know I know I've been impatient I know you've been impatient but if you really look at the whole seeding of the whole way the fabric was laid out um there is a beautiful pattern to it a beautiful Mandelola and purpose and reason. And as I'm sitting here with you today, um you are just on the on the precipice of releasing another book. And so we're feeling this timeline return between the two of us. We're feeling uh a timeline return again that is uh overlaid to the same feeling as when we first entered into relationship together. And it's as if we get to live this life again but with the wisdom that we gleaned from before. So it is a very mystic time and and I'm speaking to this because I know that everyone uh on the planet right now is going through this evolution, this very profound expansion and I know that there are people that are very uncertain about their financial security um what's going to happen, how are they going to evolve you know we have uh all kinds of crisis issues isues that we're dealing with and uh with the the theater of war with you know climate change with politics with uh AI you know there's just so much uncertainty and I feel like you and I were privileged enough although it didn't always feel like a privilege to burn in the fire uh all those years ago and have to go without and walk with faith and jump without a net and and it's it's important to say that we didn't choose this experience. This experience chose us in our personality. We would not choose to lose our money or choose to not be able to pay mortgage, property taxes, or insurance >> or have cars repossessed and have our garbage cans taken away because I couldn't scr up 80 bucks or whatever it was to pay waste removal and having to like >> put our garbage in the back of that dilapidated minivan and look for go on the hunt for like dumpsters, you know, behind grocery stores and I mean it was like intense. >> It was intense and we were um somehow beautifully unified through that process. Um I think I took it as a spiritual challenge. So I entered into it as you know sort of like modeling a Jedi like what would a Jedi warrior do and tried to re uh reduce the amount of emotional disturbance in the face of any situation including like you calling me and telling me the car was on fire or you know another thing happened, another appliance broke, another bank was overdrawn, another bill we couldn't pay. And um and you know, I'd say that it's by the grace of her that we walk now and that we are privileged and blessed enough to be able to be sitting here alive in a human life still together and still still evolving through it. Still still walking through the evolution, the growth and the development of becoming. And you know it takes a life to become and we become through the challenges through the times when um the resources are scarce. That's when creativity heightens. That's when the real materia is there. That's when it gets really rich is when you're in lack when the when it feels like things are closing in. So, if anybody's in that space, um, you know, it's a it's a privilege and an and a possibility to shift your perspective on it. And I never blamed you and I never judged you and I never expected you. Um, and I knew that we would transcend if we connected to our heart, which made no sense because I was making music, which make which made no sense, would not make any money, and you were doing training and racing, and you were not that you were not the fastest, and you were not the youngest. like there was no crystal ball that said that us um dedicating ourselves to these things that we loved would amount to anything would prove anything. >> And not for nothing just because uh everybody has a podcast now and you see these headlines of like people who are making you know crazy amounts of money doing it. Allow me to transport you back to 2012. like hosting a podcast was not a path to financial stability. There wasn't even a business model. There was no possibility that this could be a vocation that would support our family. That's not why I did it. So, it makes the decision to explore this even all the more insane. Like, it it wasn't, oh, here's a path out of this. It was just like, I need to do something creative. Mhm. >> That's it for the sake of the the process of making something in and of itself in and of itself. Not because it was like, oh, maybe this will turn into something that can like pay some bills. Like that wasn't >> that was the furthest thing from my mind because there was a lot of people out there doing it already and none of those people were doing were were able to figure that out yet at that time. So anyway, let's uh let's watch this little video that Dan and Tyler pulled up. Oh, that's the photo that we took from episode one. >> Wow, >> that's so crazy. So, >> look at those little kids. >> Those microphones are intended for making music, not for not for podcasting. Uh >> and this took place in a gigantic empty warehouse on this farm. So, note to the aspiring podcasters out there, like don't record a podcast in a warehouse. Like, this is not >> uh conducive to good acoustics. I do remember I haven't gone back and listened to it, but I remember that I said like this is not going to be a triathlon podcast or like I want to talk to all different kinds of people and like see where this goes. Like I had a I had an idea for what I wanted to do. Um, and I think I also at some point said, "Soon we're going to be videoing all they're all going to be on video." [laughter] Like I was a little ahead of myself. I think it would it was like, you know, eight years or so or seven years or something like that before video entered the picture. But anyway, yeah, that photo was from the very first episode. And then >> I remember we had a little like handheld camcorder and we would make like little teasers for upcoming episodes. I mean, I didn't have anything else to do on the island. So anyway, let's watch this. >> This is insane. >> Episode 4 of the podcast [snorts] back with Julie Patt. >> So what did we talk about today? There's a little trailer video. We're going to tell you a little bit about what to expect in this fourth episode of the podcast. >> So we talked about crashing. Rich crashed today. He's got a little road rash. >> Yeah, I crashed my bike today out here in Kawaii. So, we talked a little bit about cycling in Kawaii, [snorts] which kind of brought us into talking about my Ultram Man race in 2009, cuz I crashed in that. We kind of go through that story a little bit. And then we take a hard left and we start talking [music] about relationships and how we kind of try to make it work and some of the pitfalls that we've had [laughter] and how we've kind of navigated this journey together. And Julie pontificates [music] beautifully uh with some really amazing relationship advice. So, I think that'll be illuminating >> possibly >> entertaining. I don't know. >> We hope so. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, and then uh Julie and Tyler take us out um [music] with a beautiful live version of Julie's song uh in the song. So, stick around all the way to the end. It's worth it. [music] Um you want to check out the podcast, you can find it on iTunes, the Rich World podcast. You can go to richworld.com and [laughter] listen to it there. We're also [music] on Stitcher Radio. >> Thank you for your support. As of today, we were the number 22 podcast on iTunes for like all podcasts. >> That includes like the Adam Corolla Show and This American Life and Alec Baldwin's podcast and all this stuff. So, it's amazing that, you know, we're only a week into this and that we're in that same, you know, community of amazing broadcasters and amazing talent. And why? Because of you guys. Because of your support. So, thank you so much for your support. We're going to do our best to bring you some really great content. So, we're hope we hope you [music] uh join us for the journey and we hope you enjoy this episode. Thanks a lot. >> I got to say, I was pretty I'm pretty locked in. >> You're pretty locked in. [laughter] Yeah, as usual. >> That is hilarious. Oh my god. Can you imagine if we were number 22 now of all podcasts? Like things have changed. >> Yeah. But you know, the other thing is is that you didn't know that that it was like that new show algorithm. Like when you have the new show and then you're like, I'm the >> they boost the new show. produc the new shows. And so luckily, you didn't really know. So that gave you a lot of >> it. It was it was it was encouragement that I needed at the time to give me the enthusiasm to continue to pull on the thread and explore it. But >> yeah, like there's nothing like >> like sort of early success to, you know, get you more emotionally invested. And so >> that served a purpose. Yeah. But for people that don't know, like new shows get artificially amplified in the rankings because they want to >> um boost them for discoverability and then it quickly goes down, you know, after that or whatever. But >> at the same time, like there weren't >> people were not clamoring to start podcasts at this time. Like there weren't that many. And because of Finding Ultra and some of the things that I had done, like there were some people interested in what I was doing. And so we were able to tap that audience and we were able to kind of cultivate that community at a time when there wasn't any competition. So it was so much easier to kind of rise in the ranks and stand out. Whereas now it's so saturated like >> we're the beneficiaries of of like right place, right time. Like starting now is a whole different thing. Sure. And there's so much not just competition but saturation. You can't just like, oh, I'm gonna have a podcast and talk to interesting people. Like, what's your take? And like, why should anybody, you know, choose to listen to yours when they can listen to, you know, a zillion others that are kind of just like that. So I'm very aware of how lucky we are to have like started at that time and at a moment when you could cultivate an audience without a lot of noise around you and >> you know we've been um successful as a consequence of that in many ways like able to ride this wave and continue to build from there. So there's a lot of, you know, kind of happen luck and happen stance built into it. But I will say [snorts] that I did have a sense that this was going to become a bigger thing. Like I loved it so much and it was confusing to me why no one else was listening to these things. And I just thought like this has to, you know, grow over time when the technology gets sorted out and becomes a little more fasile and there's less resistance to the listening experience. um there's going to become a moment when there's uh more mass adoption and and that of course happened but it I never would have predicted like podcasting would become as big a form of media as it has become and >> I'm so grateful that you know we were here for all of that you know astounding >> we were here for it and you also you know delivered with 11 my ass off like it's a lot more work than I think people realize >> yeah we We never had you any Sunday for 14 years. >> Yeah. Because we would publish. I've never missed a Monday. >> Never missed a Monday in your entire >> your entire time, right? >> Yeah. >> So, yeah. So, there were, you know, focuses and I mean, it was worth it. And uh but at least we think it's worth it. Maybe the kids don't think it's worth it. >> Well, I don't know. But [laughter] it's, you know, it's interesting like I mentioned Tyler in that video and you know Tyler who's now my full-time producer was there from the very beginning and >> you know I relied upon him heavily like to I you know like can you help with the edit and like Tyler and Trapper and their cousin >> Harry >> created the theme song that you know for the show and it's like all you know like it all goes back to that early there was something really just so precious and innocent and beautiful about that period of time when we reflect back on it. And now to be sitting here, you know, in a different kind of warehouse, you know, like this, you know, extraordinary studio that is a consequence of all of that hard work and labor over so many years. >> Like it's impossible for me to not feel grateful. Like it's just exceeded every expectation that I could have ever imagined >> for this experience. And of course it's it's it's you know provided for our family and then some. But the meaning and the fulfillment comes from two different things for me. Like first just the opportunity to have the undivided attention of so many people who inspire me in different ways who then become part of my you know they're not just people on my contact list like many of them have become friends and mentors and you know people that I can turn to for advice trusted advisors but the fact that it's all an act of service on behalf of the audience audience like what can I offer that has been helpful for me or that I'm curious about because I think it could be helpful to me that can also be helpful to the audience. Yes, it's like a for-profit business, but fundamentally the more I kind of relate to it and engage with it as this act of service, the more fulfilled and purpose- driven and missionoriented, you know, I feel in the process of like continuing to make these things. And, you know, not that there weren't moments where, you know, I came close to burning out, but 14 years later, like I still love it. You know, I still love it. I get excited like, "Oh my god, so and so is gonna this person is actually gonna come here and they're they said yes and they're gonna sit here and talk to me." Like, how is this even possible? Like, >> it's just still stunning and magical to me. And you know, obviously it's changed my life and it's changed our family's life. Um, and I know that it's had a you know, a positive impact on on many people out in the world. Um, but you know what a what a what a blessing and a privilege. Like I can think of no better job for myself and no other pursuit that would have given my life the degree of meaning that that this has and I'm just like so incredibly grateful and grateful to still be in love with it this many years later. I spent a lot of time on this show encouraging you to chase experiences that actually light you up. careers, of course, but also hobbies and other pursuits that could turn into revenue generators [music] and even careers like a coaching practice or the creative thing you've always pushed off until later. But if you're going to do that, you need somewhere people [music] can find you, book you, and pay you. Otherwise, it will always just remain a hobby. And Squarespace makes that part almost embarrassingly simple. It's the all-in-one platform to build your site, claim your domain, and run the whole operation in one place. And if you offer a service like consultations, sessions, live events, it's got the unglamorous stuff that actually runs [music] a business built right in. The peside flag is the email campaigns. You can set up automations that stay connected with your people, nurture the ones who haven't booked yet, [music] and keep you top of mind, all in templates that look as good as the rest of your site. That's the difference between a website that just sits there and one that's actually working for you. Turn the thing you love into something real and get paid for it. Head to squarespace.com/rich roll for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code richoll to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. We are running an audience survey over at richroll.com/servey. and I'd genuinely love for you to take a couple quick minutes with it. [music] Here's why it matters to me. First, I want to actually know you. Who's out there listening? What do you care about? What are the kinds of guests and the kinds of conversations and themes that land for you? Because the more that I understand that, the better I can make this show the thing you actually want it to be. And second, look, you know, there are ads on this podcast. [music] This is what makes this whole affair possible. But I'm incredibly selective about the brands that I work with, partnering with only the ones that I use myself and truly believe in. And I never want my sponsorships to feel intrusive or random. And the only way to get that right is to understand [music] you a little bit better. Takes 2 minutes tops. It's genuinely one of the simplest, most direct ways you can help us keep evolving the show. And I don't take that help for granted. [music] So check it out. Please visit richroll.com/servey to fill out our audience survey. >> To be a guest on your show is a very special experience and I know that your guests will agree with me. Um I think I'm the most frequent guest. I think I've been on over 50 times. >> That many? >> Yeah. Um, and uh, the way that you uh, hold your guests, the effort that you put into the research of whatever their love expressions are, whatever they're doing in the world, whatever they're sharing, um, you really you really put the time in. Like you don't just show up here to talk to someone without studying them and knowing them and taking a moment to really try to understand, you know, why they created what they created. What is their message? What is their heart? And that is a huge um gift. And I I know that all of your guests or many of your guests who if they hear this, they will agree with me because I've been the recipient of that gift that you've given that your ability to hold somebody in that way. And I go back to, you know, the the cosmic force putting you in this position because, you know, as a child, you were a, you know, coke bottle glassed awkward kid that was not popular and you are very sensitive and very intuitive and you can walk in a room and kind of know everyone who's in there and even without them even knowing. you know who's in the room. You know what their accomplish accomplishments are, what they've done, what is their talent. And for you to be put in this type of platform where you interview these people, it is truly your joy. Like you're you're in awe and wonder of these g guests and that's what makes it and makes your show so special. >> That's the pos Thank you for that. I appreciate that. I I think like my negative inner monologue is like that's very kind and that's the positive spin on this. The negative version of that is like I'm a chronic people pleaser and I'm obsessed uh with other people and how they've achieved status and I want proximity to those people because I think it'll it'll like you know I'll I'll be able to by osmosis get some of that from them. Like that's the negative like the craven kind of like negative aspect of that. I've grown a lot since then, but that's my kind of natural proclivity. And perhaps it's related to the fact that like I was a, you know, coke bottle, glass, headgearwearing, eye patchwearing, you know, awkward child who felt like an outsider all the time and desperately wanted to feel like inside of something. And the podcast allows me that proximity to those kinds of people that make me feel that way. [laughter] >> Well, it's nice that you have the awareness. Uh, but I would say that I am your wife and your partner and your love. So, it's a little different with me. But I don't usually sense that about you around your guests at all. You're extremely celebratory of them and and not for your own not for your own >> I want to celebrate them. They're here because they inspire me. So, I'm not a journalist. I'm not like, you know, going to like if they say something that I disagree with, I'll find a way to gently push back. Um, but I'm not in the business of trying to take their inventory or judge them. I'm trying to create a non-judgmental space >> uh where it's about curiosity and the motivation is to try to understand this person even if I disagree with them. And I think the original concept that still remains true is to, and this doesn't apply to every guest, but kind of as an overarching like philosophy for the show, is to give the audience a version of what you experience in an AA meeting with a round of what it was like, what happened, and what it's like now. Because that experience can be transcendent, particularly for somebody who has never experienced it, like comes in as an outsider and bears witness to a person who gets up in front of a group of people and like bears their soul and and spares no detail, no embarrassing, shameinducing detail about like what they did and the crazy [ __ ] that happened in their life and the wreckage that it created and how they put the pieces back together and built a life out of the, you know, flames and ashes of self-destruction that comes part and parcel with addiction. And it's inspiring to see somebody own their past in that way without shame or without embarrassment. And and when you are in the company or in the presence of that, you can't help but be moved. There's something powerful about somebody who can be so vulnerable while still standing in their power. And I wanted to give the audience that experience, like a version of that experience in a non kind of like outside of the room. So that's why stories of transformation are really the bread and butter of the show. And that doesn't mean that every guest comes in with like some crazy before and after story, but when they do, I feel like I'm right in my right in the pocket, the zone, but with every single person who shows up, even if it's an academic or a scientist, I still want to know the origin story and how they got there and what's motivating them and what are the obstacles they had to overcome to have the life that they have now such that they can, you know, be on a large podcast and in part their wisdom. This is what I've discovered along my life path. We all have some version of that hero's journey. And I think when you create a space that feels safe going to places you wouldn't ordinarily go, particularly publicly, and I can get that person to share something about themselves that maybe they don't ordinarily do publicly. like there is there's something powerful about that that is transcendent that creates that connection with the audience. So it's like authenticity >> and just you know unbridled honesty to the extent that the guest is is is you know willing like that's always my aim. >> Well and you do you go deeper than you know others and there's usually some very deep emotion that comes out or or or feelings of connection definitely with your guests. It's it's very very, you know, very visible. It's very evident. And it's cool to hear you describe that sort of vision and mission and the way that the way that you've thought about the podcast. I don't know that I've ever heard you really explain it that way. And I think it speaks to your equinimity and your choice to stay in a positive light rather than get into polarizing either political perspectives or name calling or you know you've always just stayed in the neutral loving space of holding this vision and sharing the human story. And I think it's something that we we have benefited from and that we need and will continue to need and want in the coming, you know, years, decades, you know, however we progress because it's really the stories that we tell, the human stories that connect us and that um are a friend to us along our along our own paths. >> Yeah, I want to establish that connection. I want to nourish that connection. Um, and I wanna and I want to steer clear of like trafficking in drama and nonsense for the sake of, you know, engagement. And there's plenty of people that do that and some people who do it very well. And I'm not saying there isn't, >> you know, a a purpose for that. It's just not the lane that I'm in. I'm like, I want to create these evergreen episodes that you could listen to 10 years from now and they're just as relevant and resonant as they were the day that they were recorded. And you know, I don't always hit a home run with these things. Like I've done a thousand of them. They're not all going to be like amazing. You know, you do the best that you can in the circumstances that you find yourself in. But with change and transformation being kind of like the core recurring theme of the show, you know, I have to change and transform and evolve along with it. I can't sit across from all these people who are imparting wisdom about my own blind spots without having the temerity and the courage to like address those in my own life. And simultaneously with respect to the podcast landscape like it's changed a lot and I have to change with it. Now the incentive structure is such that it favors people who are trafficking in drama and contrarianism and hot takes and name calling and the like. And my refusal to do that means that the algorithm doesn't always smile favorably, you know, with I'm talking about YouTube here, uh, on the content that I create. And I have to make peace with that while also trying to understand in order to have a viable business, we have to evolve and change to basically um find a way to satisfy the algorithm so the people that have already subscribed to the show actually see it and have access to it. it's fed to them because that's how we find our content these days while also remaining true to my principles and operating the show from a place of integrity >> which is not an easy thing to do. But >> you said we're returning to an original timeline and that was a timeline very much of experimentation and flow and creativity. And so I'm approaching this phase with that sensibility and that mindset like what can we experiment with? Just because we've done it this way doesn't mean that this always has to be the format. And that's why we've been doing these monologue episodes and like recording the show outdoors and just trying different things and trying to have fun with it. And I'm rediscovering some of that original joy cuz it's, you know, it is a grind and I've been doing it a long time. And I'll fully admit like there's been times where it's like, oh, it just it becomes like robotic or like, okay, this is what I'm doing and I do it this way and this is how I'm doing it and it's always going to be this way. >> And then times change, appetites change, and I've been forced to have to figure out how to evolve with these things. But that's been fun and almost unbburdening like, "Oh, what if it it's not like this and we can do it this way. There are no rules. We just think they're rules, you know?" And that's made it >> um not only more enjoyable, but it's allowed me to like hold it a little bit less loosely rather than like I have to prepare this way and this is the way the show goes and this is what people expect. >> You still asked me what what I was going to say before we push. Well, it drives me crazy of all the times you come on. I was like, "All right, we got to sit down and talk about what we're going to talk about and you're like, "Don't bother me." You know, and then you come on and then you >> spin your yarns of wisdom and then I'm like, "Okay, I should just let her do it the way that she wants to do it." >> But it's so cool that you just shared that. And what I wanted to ask you is okay so if there were no limits if there were no rules and no limits I'm really interested to know what is your vision for podcasting first of all but more than that um if you could paint it exactly the way you wanted to um podcasting maybe expanding into film projects into other types of media what would be your dream um scenario for the next 14 years. >> I don't know that I have a sufficiently satisfying answer to that because I stay out of the business of like here's my five-year plan or this is what I want it to look like 10 years from now. I know you don't either and I know that's not >> exactly what you're asking >> but um I think the first way to answer that is to say that we need to untether ourselves from this word podcasting like I feel like it's a restrictive word >> like podcasting canotes audio and two people sitting across from each other with a microphone and that's fine But my sense of how this medium is evolving and evolving rapidly is is that it's transcending that limited definition of like what a podcast is. And so what we're seeing because of video and because of the fact that podcasting has suddenly become a video first format which is a whole other in order to explain that like basically it's an audio format and I and most of the audience still listens to it in audio only but video has become important because YouTube has figured out discoverability and the only way to put yourself in a position for new people to discover what you're doing is to film it and chop it up into clips and put it on YouTube. And YouTube and Instagram, these algorithms, serve your content up to people who aren't already subscribers or who don't know who you are. Whereas iTunes and Spotify, like you're just in terms of audio, you're just kind of locked in. Like you don't go to the iTunes or Spotify homepage and take a flyer on a podcast you've never heard of. >> But people [clears throat] are more than happy to like watch a video based on a thumbnail that they see that involves people they've never heard of. Like that's for some reason our brains are amydala can like make that leap. So anyway, podcasting has become a medium in which video is very important. Some people like that, some people don't. But because of that, it's forced the podcasters to create content that works in video, which means pushing the boundaries of what a podcast is. And so what we're seeing are shows that are essentially two people talking to each other, but are made with video in mind and done in a context that's more dynamic. And so they're starting to look more and more like TV shows >> and not necessarily TV talk shows, but some blend of documentary storytelling with conversation in which there's an activity involved or uh travel or there there's something else going on. And so I think that trend is going to continue. And so what that means to me is this door is opening up in which I need to expand my thinking around what this format is and how I can exp how can I how I can like stretch myself to find ways to tell stories and share experiences through a more dynamic format than sitting across from somebody like yourself while we're both sitting in chairs. You know what I mean? And that's exciting and I'm already working on a few things that have me really excited >> um that I'll share more about later uh because it because it just opens up the doors to unlimited possibilities and that that that's like fun and gets me out of bed in the morning excited and like ideulating and journaling and imagining what could be possible like getting locked into just well this is what it is and the the table always has to look like this and this is what the set is. That's like not a growth mindset. And I think >> the more I remain attached to that or locked in on that, the more the world is going to pass me by because changes are happening and I'm refusing to change along with them. So change is always calling us. >> Yes. >> And we need to answer changes call and change in tandem with the external changes that are being imposed upon us. and look upon them as opportunities rather than burdens with, you know, that that that we just that we just like breed resentment over. >> I love that. So, our next episode, could we uh can we do something where I'm uh teaching you Pilates or some dance moves? >> I don't know. Are you pitching me? [laughter] >> I don't know about dance moves. Pilates. I I want to get into the Pilates thing. >> Okay. Well, >> so that's that that that's a yes, but we'll see. You know, proposition. >> Yeah. More more to be revealed later, I [laughter] suppose. >> That's so good. >> The other thing that I want to say about this is that um I mean, it's just broadened my horizons in so many ways. Like just the sheer number of people that I've been able to meet and connect with and learn from. It's kept my curiosity alive. It's kept me um in this committed relationship with lifelong learning like oh you know you went to college you went there and then your learning's over but what would happen if you remained curious and you continued to like explore the things that light you up and you had the opportunity to learn from some of the best people in the world who are experts in these various fields like there's no greater thing you know like and I think curiosity like in this conversation around health span extension and longevity. I think curiosity is a centerpiece to that. Like everybody can argue around the margins around how many hours you should sleep and stuff like that, but if you don't remain curious and nourish your cur curiosity, >> you're going to wilt pretty quickly. >> And this has kept that very much intact for me. And then the second thing is just really feeling connected to the idea that like conversation matters. Like conver like two people talking to each other. >> Not only is it the most fundamental like primal experience >> between two human beings. >> It's essentially the only thing that we have to solve any problem that we face. It begins with two people trying to communicate around it and it's a sacred act and it should be treated reverently and we should understand how to do it properly and respectfully with integrity. We should learn how to listen better and we should, you know, curate the people that we share experiences with and really honor the opportunity to sit quietly and presently and have a conversation with another human being. Like I think it's really important and we're very cavalier about it. And now because there's too many podcasts out there and we're just saturated with like people talking to each other in the microphones, it's easy to be dismissive of that. But I do think that it is important to remember that like >> you know it's not podcasting. It's like >> connecting >> sitting across the campfire from another human being and engaging in this lost art of connection uh that we need in order to feel fully embodied as humans. >> Yes, beautifully said. I mean, I have to say that all of the podcast conversations that we have had on your show have been hugely amplifying and expansive to our relationship. There's no question. There's no question. >> Yeah. >> Um agree with that. >> The only thing that we could take from that is to do that off the air more often. >> I know. There's something about like okay it's scheduled and like there's camera like it's being recorded so like you better [laughter] >> it's true >> you better you can't like check your phone in the middle of it or anything like that >> there's something about the the restrictions of it that the structure of it that like the container that like is conducive for us it's like okay what do we really want to share with each other that's important it feels heightened you know what I mean it's hard to do that >> voluntarily without this that doesn't mean that we shouldn't or that we can't. I'm just saying that it's not surprising to me that some of those conversations have taken place in this dynamic. >> Well, now what I'll do is I'm going to get a little fake set put together at our house so that when I want to talk to you, we can have pretend we're recording [laughter] a podcast. >> I don't think we have to go that far. >> I'd like to talk to you. >> Yeah. Like I'm not I'm not insane, you know, like we [laughter] don't need to do we don't need to do that. I also just want to mention you know of all the years and um that we've been in this journey on this journey together and you know without fail whenever we felt we were without a without a raft without a without a path without a way to move we would always receive an email or a handwritten letter or something from somebody who was listening to us and who was listening listening to the show and these were even early days when you know it was very unclear what was going to go on what was going to be the the development of the podcast. But you know there are some individuals that have wa that have listened to the show from early days from that episode one and we do meet them and it is wild how as humans when we're sharing in this medium we find each other somehow and there are you know certain qualities about our choice of life experience or the life experience that we were given together and how that connects with the audience and other people and you know without the audience this show doesn't exist and it's been you know a privilege really really a privilege and a blessing and a gift to us and to you mo more than me um but I just wanted to mention uh the beauty of that experience >> very important thing it sounds very pedestrian to say like well you you know you the audience you make this thing possible but like it's true like >> I only get to do this because of all of you out there who have made a decision to trust me with your time and your attention. And that's not a small thing, especially when there's an infinite number of choices right now u for people uh when it comes to like >> where they want to place that attention, you know, like there's lots of other people who do this thing or whatever. And the fact that somebody would say, "No, I'm going to I'm going to take two hours out of my day when we're already super busy and invest it here." Like that is that is a huge honor that I don't take lightly. And to your point, yes, there are many people who've been >> with us, you know, from the very beginning and are still here. And that's like a remarkable thing that I I don't take any of that for granted. And I'm just I'm so honored by that. And it is true. And I've had the great opportunity to meet many of you, you know, over the years in my travels. And it's always a positive, nourishing experience for me. And I think it also needs to be said that we owe a great deal of thanks to Greg Ansalone who very early on uh became a support to us when we needed that support and somebody who had a vision for what this could become when that vision exceeded what I thought could be possible. and he has stood by us at every step of the way um supporting us not just in our time of need but in our more expansive times to help us um continue to grow and to evolve and to even think bigger uh than than you know I have a tendency to think and so he's been a remarkable partner in this and just one of the most remarkable people that I' that I've ever met a person of tremendous heart >> uh who is by default serviceoriented in in the most selfless and and giving way and I feel very blessed to have him um as a central figure in in this mission that we've been on for a very long time. >> Yeah. Blessings to Greg and Avon and for all they have given to us and our family and support. Um it's incredible, beautiful, beautiful humans. in terms of some of the overarching like generalized lessons from hosting this thing for a very long time in addition to the fact that conversation does indeed matter. Uh I think it's just taught me that change and transformation is always possible no matter what. I have sat across from people who have overcome the most dire set of circumstances or conditions and situations in which the deck was stacked so steeply against them and to hear them transcend their circumstances and create a life out of you know whole cloth in conditions that I wouldn't wish on anybody like continues to inspire me and has taught me that no matter where you find yourself, that better, more self-actualized person is possible. I believe that truly and deeply to my heart. And so this this show is really about trying to help people solve that equation for themselves. I mean, we all, you know, kind of want something better for ourselves, even in the best case scenario, like how can I be better in this way or better in that way? Oh, I don't think I can or who cares or that's never going to happen. And I have seen time and time again that not only can it happen, it it's it's it's within everybody's reach. And that doesn't mean you're going to like actualize every single dream that you have for yourself, but uh I think seeing change and transformation as a relationship that you're constantly engaged with uh and grappling with uh and and having a sense that uh you're always in a position to actualize more of your your potential um is something I want to make sure that the audience, you know, kind of takes away as a lesson. lesson from hosting all these conversations for so many for so many years. >> Yeah, absolutely. It's beautiful. >> And I have changes I still need to make that I'm trying to make because it never ends. Like Phil Stutz says, there are three unavoidables in life. Pain, uncertainty, and the need for constant work. And no matter how much I think uh I'm going to transcend these things one day, I am constantly reminded that I will not. And so I might as well uh welcome change and the discomfort that change demands of all of us and um trudge that road of happy destiny with some gratitude instead of begrudgingly. >> Absolutely. And I'll add one thing to Phil's list and that is um to have fun to lighten up and >> I'm trying to do that. I just mean even humanity, you know, it's like we really need to focus on having fun and finding the joy. It is part of a human expression. And human beings are resilient. They're empathic. They're unique. They're, you know, otherworldly. They're just beautiful. And humanity will find a way. We will find a way together. and we will we will recreate again and again and again together. And so um have faith and hold the vision and don't waver and now is the time. It's not tomorrow and it's not in five years. It's right now. And so together we can all rise and create this more beautiful world that we all dream of. >> Beautifully said. Well, thanks for taking this journey with me. >> Makes me want to cry. Thank you for taking this journey with me. >> It's been a wild one. I don't know. >> It's crazy. >> Do you think there's going to be an episode 2000? [laughter] >> I don't know, man. >> That's a lot. Yeah, >> maybe it'll be. >> We'll see. I'll I'll keep doing it as long as the world will uh keep having me, you know. But I also I I also, you know, there's a season for everything also. You know what I mean? You don't want to be the guy who won't leave the party either. >> And uh I'm I'm certainly open and and willing to uh entertain that degree of change in my life as well. I mean, there will come a day where I will no longer do this, >> of course. Um, when that day will come, uh, who knows? Could come sooner rather than later. I have no designs on on stopping this thing. Like I said, I still love it and I am having more fun doing it than I have in in a long time. >> Uh, but uh, but you never know. You never It could be episode 2000 or maybe would maybe, who knows? >> Well, I think it'll be the evolution, right? So, something else. Yeah, exactly. But it will still be the same. the seeds of the same as we expand and >> I'm very excited to see what you create and share. >> Well, I appreciate the support that you have given me from day one uh with respect to this. It wouldn't have been possible without that. And there were, you know, a lot of Sundays, all the Sundays where I had to disappear to like make sure I got to show up. And, >> you know, I used to be a control freak and I had to do everything. And now I have a team that handles all of that for me that I trust and who are all way more talented than I am. And that's a a blessing of the growth over time that has >> allowed this to happen and has given me the extra bandwidth to not have to sacrifice every Sunday >> to give me the opportunity to write another book and spend time with you and the kids and the things that that are really important in life and that's a blessing as well. So, >> I guess in conclusion, thank you again to everybody who has taken a flyer on this show and watched an episode. And if this is the first uh episode of this podcast [clears throat] that you've ever listened to or heard, uh episode 10,00 is a good enough uh episode as any to jump on board. And I appreciate you being here and again trusting me with your time and your attention, which I do not take lightly. If you are new, search the uh archives and the canon. There's plenty of cool stuff there, no matter what you're into. And I'm gonna continue to try to push the envelope and find the most interesting people I can and play with the formats. I'm really enjoying these monologue episodes and, you know, I don't know, maybe we'll do a series with somebody on X, Y, or Z. And just holding it a little bit more loosely. So, if there's something that you would like to hear me talk about or see me talk about, a specific subject matter or um any kind of format, uh that is kind of off the beaten map in terms of where you think I could serve all of you, like leave a comment below, share all your thoughts. We go through all of those and uh that's it. Thank you. Episode 1,00 >> quite a milestone. I never would have imagined this would have gotten to this place, but it has. And again, I'm like so grateful and just and bewildered like so many it's not I'm very aware that it's not me, you know, like my name is on this thing, but you know, I'm the beneficiary of luck and circumstances. I'm the beneficiary of getting to work with extremely talented people. There were so many things that have played into this becoming what what it what what it has become. Uh, very little of which has to do with like like me and like I did it, you know. No, I'm >> I'm I'm on the receiving end of a lot of grace, luck, and um goodwill on behalf of many many people. So, >> wow. Congratulations. Still, even still. >> All right. Well, thanks for celebrating with me, Julie. >> Thanks. I love you, babe. All right. >> Congrats. >> Appreciate you. Love you. >> 1,000. >> Peace. >> What? >> Namaste. >> Should we make another little teaser video? >> Oh my [laughter] god. >> What do you think? >> Sounds good. >> All right. Good. >> Plant power. >> All right. Thanks. [music] >> [music]