What Makes A Real Man? | Lewis Howes on Impact Theory

People are going to constantly judge us, whether we go after big dreams or do nothing. We're going to be judged either way. If we sit on a couch all day, our parents and our friends are going to be like, "You're lazy. Do something with your life." If we go chase after the most audacious dreams we have, a lot of people are going to attack us and try to bring us down. So, we might as well go do something with our lives and say, "Thank you for the feedback." and move on. Everybody Welcome to Impact Theory. You are here, my friends, because you believe that human potential is nearly limitless, but you know that having potential is not the same as actually doing something with it. So, our goal with this show and company is to introduce you to the people and ideas that will help you actually execute on your dreams. All right. Today's guest went from being broke, broken, and living on his sister's couch to creating one of the top 100 podcasts in the world, building a seven-figure online business, and being recognized by President Obama as one of the top 100 entrepreneurs under 30 in just a few short years. Having grown up with a learning disability, being bullied, and at 8 years old watching his older brother go to prison for selling drugs, to say that he started out behind the eightball would be an understatement. But, thankfully for any of us who've ever listened to his podcast The School of Greatness, his desire to learn was bigger than his fear of looking stupid, and he leapt headlong into learning to use LinkedIn to meet people he thought could teach him something. He got so good at this that he not only managed to get some of the world's greatest minds on his show, a show which, by the way, now has more than 30 million downloads, but he also leveraged it to build his networking techniques into his first successful online business, which he ultimately sold. Leveraging that success, he's now running another thriving online business, is a seasoned high-performance business coach who advises billion-dollar brands, as well as being a keynote speaker who has been on stages all over the world. His first book, The School of Greatness, crushed it, becoming a New York Times bestseller, and Details magazine called him one of the five internet gurus who can make you rich. He's been featured on Ellen, The New York Times, People, Forbes, Inc., and many other major media outlets. And at this point, by any metric, he's a teacher at the School of Greatness as well as its principal student. Please help me in welcoming the former professional football player and two-sport All American athlete whose latest book, The Mask of Masculinity, is about to destroy your preconceived notions of what it means to be a real man. The dean of the School of Greatness himself, Lewis Howes. Stop it, brother. Welcome. The king of introductions, as always. Dude, so I'm telling you what you've accomplished since last we sat across from each other in the interview scenario is so amazing that this interview wrote itself. I mean, literally, all you have to do is quickly compile the list of never-ending accomplishments that you've managed to write. But really, that's impressive, and I know I know how humble you are, and so I know that you don't do like a lot of saying this stuff yourself. But like going through and I was like good lord, like it's really impressive. Thanks, man. So, well done. And I Yeah, I love it. You start with a vision and you focus on executable steps. Yeah, I think it's about The things I do are pretty simple. I just do them over and over again. And I try to find people like yourself and say, "How can I add as much value to your life as possible?" Without asking for anything in return. That's kind of been my mission. It's like when I started out on my sister's couch, it was reaching out to people, asking them how I could help. Eight years later, I'm still doing the same thing. I'm just doing it at a different level. It's incredible, man. I love that because it it really is the story of intention, discipline, execution. Which is such a simple game, but so few people do it. Very few. So, for them to be able to see what you've accomplished and it's pretty cool. Seeing you on Ellen was dope. Thank you. I'm very grateful, very blessed. You know, it was a dream of mine. I remember having a vision of dancing with Ellen on stage one time when I was on my sister's couch. Right. And I told her that in the first interview. I was lucky enough to go on twice and I told her that in the first interview. And I was just like, you know, I like to bring things full circle. I like to have a vision or a dream. And then actually, even if it's 10, 20 years later, I like to see it come true. Most people I feel like just, if it doesn't happen within the first 6 months, they're on to something else. Right. I can be like as bored out of my mind doing the same thing over and over to try to do one thing. I think that's what's helped. That's awesome, dude. And I'm sure that's what made you great as an athlete is exactly the same thing is paying off here. And one thing I just want to put a fine point on and I obviously have no idea what you guys are doing behind the scenes, but it was very telling the way that Ellen is positioning you as like the the torch is being passed to the next generation of high-level entrepreneur mentor. I thought that was pretty amazing, so congratulations Things are in the works. It'll be interesting. Yeah, thanks. to see where it goes. And then there's the super secret stuff that you're telling me about before we roll, man, which when that goes through and I will use that word very intentionally, when that goes through, we will have you back We'll do an Impact Insider. I like it. talk about it for like 20 minutes and dive deep in the brainstorming of everything, yeah. I dig that. Yeah. All right. Well, in similar fashion, let's talk about masks. Do it. So, do you think people be surprised by the topic of book that you chose? Absolutely. Everything I do is for a reason, too. You know, I I try to constantly do things that put me out of a box, that make me uncomfortable, and that challenge me. And talking about masculine vulnerability definitely is a challenge. Um you know, when I was in high school going into college, my siblings and I made a bet. They all said that I'd be like this drunk jock football player cuz I was going to play college football. Wow. They were like, "You're going to go and be like a frat boy and this and that." And maybe it's part of my ego at the time where I was like, "I'm going to prove you wrong." I didn't have a sip of alcohol all 4 years of college. That's amazing. Um never even felt tempted because I just made that up in my mind. I was like, "I'm going to be different than what people want to put me in a box to be." Mhm. Um you know, I've still never been drunk cuz I just continue to carry that on. Wow. I was in a school musical. I was in choir. I always did things you know, I salsa dance. I tried to do different things. That's You salsa dance well. I've been salsa dancing for almost over a decade. Wow. Yeah, over a decade. It's a big passion of mine. And I just try to learn, constantly learn things that normally people that look like me who grew up like me would never do. Because I feel like there's so much richness of life that I would have missed out on had I stayed in this athletic jock core group that you know, if I'm generalizing it, just kind of did the same thing and talked the same way and um lived a certain lifestyle. And I just didn't want to live that life. I wanted to live a life of abundance, of learning, of constantly questioning who I am and if I'm doing things for the greater good or just for myself. And um so this topic was really a self-discovery. 4 years ago, I got in a really big uh fight. I started getting angrier and angrier in my life. As I was achieving more and more financially accomplishments, awards, all the things the nice things that you mentioned beginning as those were happening, I would find myself more and more triggered emotionally from simple attacks that people had on me, whether it be like online, on social media or in person uh in my relationship, I was very triggered where I would just get more and more bent out of shape and hurt in certain situations and frustrated and resentful. And one day at the I I was playing a lot of pickup basketball at this time. And so over 6-month period I was playing a lot of pickup basketball. And I was literally every time I would go, I would get in some type of altercation. Usually it was extreme verbal altercations, screaming. Uh if anyone ever stepped to me on the pickup courts in the rough West Hollywood uh neighborhood streets of the mean streets of West Hollywood, you know, if anyone stepped to me, um it was like an instant alpha reaction of like territory, like I own this, this is my court. Don't ever try to talk to me in a bad way. Don't try to foul me in the wrong way. Uh and let alone I was doing the same thing to them. So it was like Right. Um but for whatever reason, all these things started coming up more and more and I was getting more and more aggressive at the basketball courts. In relationships and then I would take it out on the courts. On like 18-year-old kids. You know, these kids weren't even that big, right? Right. Um and one day there was a guy who was actually bigger than me uh and older than me and we were going at it like, you know, two silverback gorillas, like try to just like get their land, you know what I mean? Um and it got down to a really heated moment where he headbutted me and it was just like years of built-up tension came out in that moment. Where I, you know, like superhuman strength came upon me, it was just like rage and anger. I had zero control, zero control over my emotions. I allowed my ego, my masks to own me as opposed to having emotional intelligence and owning the moment. And um we got in a pretty bad fight and at the end of it I was just so fired up, I couldn't believe what I did and the guy's face was just mauled, bleeding everywhere and I was just like, what did I just do? What am I What am I doing? It was just like, I remember running home in shame and fear. One because the the uh police station is right across the street from these mean streets of West Hollywood. And um I was just like, what am I doing? Like, I have everything to lose in this moment. What's Why am I allowing myself to be so frustrated, so angry, to fight this guy on a simple basketball game where there's zero stakes. No one's watching. There's no money at stake. It's just my ego at stake. And I remember going home, looking in the mirror, and just being like, who are you, Lewis? Like, who are you? But I was trembling. I was trembling. I was like, what are you doing and who are you? And that was the moment where I was like, I almost needed that catalyst to be like, okay, it's time to reevaluate everything, every relationship, my my the intimate relationship I was in at the time, relationship with my family, friends, everything. And the most important relationship which was with myself. And I was like, what is my relationship with myself? I wasn't even sure what it was. Was I taking care of myself emotionally? Did I know how to communicate to myself in a way that I could, you know, have patience and grace throughout life's daily challenges or struggles. I didn't have the answers. And for a guy, and I know you're a guy who's constantly seeking for answers, seeking for the truth, in the matrix, I realized I needed to go find my truth in that moment. And so it took me down a path of just self-discovery, taking different workshops on emotional intelligence, Wow. uh um going to different therapists and just asking questions and doing sessions, wanting to take in as much as I could from every expert about how I could let go. First, why am I so angry? Mhm. Reactive, resentful, uh unforgiving, uh passive-aggressive, why And then how can I move forward so that it doesn't control me moving uh in the rest of my life? And um that's when this book research really started to happen. Did you already have the the notion of they were masks or was it No, I thought I was perfect. I thought I was like I had everything figured out, you know, I was making good money, and you know, anything I touched worked. You know, I was getting the girls, I was making sales, I was getting the accomplishments. So, for me everything was like I know the answers at that moment. When I think the ego is present uh you're unwilling to look uh for different answers or different solutions cuz you feel like you already have them. So, for me it was really about, okay, first being aware my ego is leading the way. How is this supporting me and how is this hurting me? Because in some ways it was benefiting my life. I was achieving, I was getting recognition, I was making money, I was in good shape. In other ways, the most important ways, my internal well-being was suffering, was hurting, was confused, was depressed at times. And uh was always in this conflict. And so, first for me it was like, okay, I realized that I have a challenge. I have a problem, right? It's the recognition. What can I do next? How can I have the understanding, the tools, the technology to move forward in a way that doesn't that I'm not a slave to my ego, but I am aware of it. I can welcome it, I can have a conversation with it, and I can let it go. And um yeah, for me it was being aware first, and the second most important thing was learning to forgive, which I didn't think I needed to do. Uh forgive the things that had happened in my life with family experiences, um other challenges that I I through, you know, all the intimate relationships I'd been in, that I was still holding on to past pain. And then again, forgiving the most important person, which was myself, for just everything that I did or didn't do or thought or didn't think. And just finally letting go of so many things that I've been holding on to. And when I held on to these things and didn't have a way to communicate things to myself or other people, that's when this like this energy bottled up. You know, when when men in general, when human beings, I should say, in general don't feel like they can communicate. Uh internal challenges arise, and then it comes into physical and out outward challenges, as well. And that's when I started realize, "Wow, I've been wearing a mask throughout my entire life. I've been wearing different types of masks." Some phases of my life, I'm driven to just uh if I'm being blunt here, you know, have sex with every girl on the planet. You know, my my my masculine brain wants to be like, "It's not enough. I need to date more girls or I need to go after more, right?" Um at one point I was with and that was my sexual mask. At one point I was like, "I'm broke and I need to focus on making as much money as possible and having, you know, all the the the money in the world, the the watches, the jewelry, the cars, like all the fanciest things." And I was driven with this material mask, which disconnected me from the rest of reality. Uh I wore the athlete mask throughout most of my life. I had an aggression mask. Um I have had a know-it-all mask, a joker mask, all these different masks that have showed up at different times to protect me from literally just being able to have a conversation and connect with other human beings. Because that was my biggest fear, was letting people see what I've been through, what I'd gone through, and the fear of them actually knowing that I wasn't perfect. And I think that was my biggest fear is, "What if people actually knew that I had tons of flaws? Would they still accept me? Would they still love me? Would they still listen to me and be my friend? Cuz growing up I didn't have friends. Like you said, my my brother was in prison for 4 and 1/2 years. And being an 8-year-old kid in a white middle-class suburban Ohio, there weren't many other people that I knew that went to prison. Right. Let alone other siblings of, you know, peers that I had. So, in the neighborhood, obviously all the parents knew that I was the kid who had the older brother that went to prison. And I wasn't allowed to go to any of the kids' houses. Wow. Just by association. Now, so for years, I'm essentially playing in the backyard by myself. Just shooting a basketball, kicking a ball, throwing a ball against the wall, doing whatever I can to pass the time. And so, these things just start to, I think, weigh on humans in general. I'm not talking about just men, but humans in general, when situations occur, it starts to build up inside of us, where we want to defend ourselves, we want to protect ourselves, and we start to just wear masks. And I think that's the challenge. And As coping mechanisms. Of course, yeah, as coping mechanisms. And also to to get to the result of what we're looking for, you know, if we're not happy in a situation, if we're not if no girls would give me attention as a 13-year-old horny boy, what am I going to do to like get the attention and have that connection and feel like I'm worthy as a boy trying to uh become a man. You know what I mean? So, it's like we start to fixate on certain things to get certain results. And I've worn every single mask. I still wear masks, but I'm so much more aware in the moment, and I'm quick to remove, at least I try to be quick to remove, um because I'm much more aware. So, I think that's been key. One thing that I found really important in the book, um was the concept, and you just mentioned it a minute ago, that there are sometimes where the mask serves you, which is how we end up wearing these masks. Talk to me a little bit about where is that line? Like, how do we know when to leverage it? How do we know not only how do we know when to stop using it, but what awaits us when we stop using it? So, the first part, when do we know when to use it? We know when to use it when it can drive and fuel us to help us achieve our dreams and help create better relationships. So, if it fuels us into achieving our dreams and creating better relationships, put it on as much as you want. When should we take it off? When it's hurting yourself and it's hurting other people. If you're wearing it and it's not benefiting yourself and everyone else around you, it's time to take it off. It's time to be aware of a different mask to put on or complete take it off completely and be your vulnerable real self. Um you know, again, if you're if you're a young entrepreneur who's got a startup idea, a product idea, you're going to be very driven to get in the press, get accomplishments, get hit certain marks, hit hit certain financial goals so that you can, you know, live another month and pay your team and do those do these things. So, you're going to be driven pretty much at all costs to generate revenue, to get attention, to to get your product out there. Maybe burning some relationships and trying to leverage too much that's going to help ask for too much promotion from things. If it's hurting relationships and it's hurting your dream, it's time to take it off. If it's not for the betterment of all and it's hurting your health, I feel like it's time to take it off. Um but again, I think again, if you can do it in a way that drives your mission forward and leaves an impact on people around you, then cool. But that usually just means being your authentic self. What do you think about masks in terms of um identity because I for someone like you who spends a lot of time thinking about this that not only did you go see a therapist like it actually registered in your mind that that would be a helpful thing. Mhm. For a lot of people it doesn't. They actually don't know what their true self is. Like how do they begin to deconstruct and differentiate between like when you talk about wearing the athlete mask for so long in your life and that was real, right? Like you had real passion. You still do. I mean you're on the US national handball team. So it's like there's there's a point at which it it's real and sort of core to who you are when you're being authentic and then it spills over into a mask. How do you help people deconstruct that process to find where those marks are? I think it's a lot of self-discovery. It's a lot of for me what worked was having open conversations and asking for feedback. And when you're wearing a mask, you don't want feedback. You want to know that you're right. That your way is the right way because it's been working for you. Mhm. So asking someone, "Hey, how do I show up for you? You know, is there anything I do that just rubs you the wrong way or do you feel like is hurting our relationship or do you feel like I'm disconnected in any way?" How often did you have conversations like that? Growing up not many. But 4 years ago after this fight, I started having them every day. With everyone everyone in my life. I think you know here's something you can start with. You can either have an open conversation with someone and ask them ask them to rate you. You know, whatever works for you. "Hey, will you write a list of the things that you feel like work really well for me, my strengths and my weaknesses? Or on a scale of 1 to 10, how open am I to feedback for you? Am I you know, nine where I'm pretty open pretty much all the time or am I at a two where anytime you have a suggestion anything, I I push you away? Just start getting feedback from your closest friends. If you have an audience, you can ask your audience. From your family. ask your audience? I didn't necessarily ask them to like grade me, you know, or something like that, but I I started having an open dialogue with my audience. I started sharing and revealing things. I started opening up about the things I was going through, things I was letting go from my past that had really affected me. And kind of having more like a confessional with people, you know, with my my audience of like, this is what's happened to me, this is where I'm going, and this is what I'm working on. I hope you'll stick around. Right. Um but I think asking people to write you a letter, you know, if you can't have an open conversation, if you don't feel good about that, email someone and say, "Hey, I just want to get some feedback. You know, I'm not going to get upset. I want you to speak openly to me, but could you write a list of like five things that I do really well, five things that you feel like are holding me back uh from our relationship, from my relationship with other people, and from my dreams? Start there. You're going to get so much and say, "I want you to be completely honest." Again, it's just one person's opinion, but it's their perception, and perception is reality to that person. So, I tried to get as much feedback as possible from my closest friends, my family. I had a one-on-one conversation with every family member. Wow. I took ownership and apologized for everything that I'd ever done. And I revealed all the things that had happened to me that I was terrified for them to know. Mhm. And I started with this question cuz I was I was so terrified for my family and my friends to know actually who I was, things that had happened that I was ashamed of and guilty of. But I started every conversation. And I got this from uh a therapist friend of mine cuz I didn't know how to communicate correctly. I said, "Is there anything that I could ever do or say that would make you not love me?" So, I started every conversation with that. Cuz I wanted to know that I could do be the most messed up person in the world, and I would still have connection. And that someone would still love me cuz I think at our core, that's our deepest fear. That we're not going to feel love from someone. So, for me, I started with my family members. They were all like, "Absolutely not." Even especially my brother who went to prison, he was like, "No." Right away. He was like, "Nothing." You know? And um it was just such a healing process to say, "Wow, I've known these people for my whole life and yet they still don't know certain things about me and I didn't know certain things about them." When I actually opened up and was vulnerable when I opened up and was vulnerable and shared things with them that no one knew for 25 years of my life, it was like uh the most powerful intimate conversations I've ever had with my closest relatives, right? And then they opened up in ways that I just had no idea what had happened to them. So, our relationship formed a stronger bond. Our trust and intimacy formed a stronger bond. And I was able to just let go of things that I was holding on to for years, which allowed me to move forward. So, I think it's starting with having those open conversations. If you can't do that, email and ask people to write down five things that you do well, five things that you could use work on. Just to get feedback from people. Some things are going to land, some things aren't, but I think it's important to get that feedback. What awaits on the other side for the people that do the work? Freedom. From emotions? Freedom from anything that's been holding you back emotionally. Freedom from judgment of yourself. Uh forgiveness. Inner peace. The most powerful feelings in the world come on the other side. Now, I'm not saying that you may not slip back into frustration and anger and resentment and all these other things like I still have and work on every month and and catch myself, but it's a daily practice to be able to learn how to take it off when my ego's in the way. Even this morning, I got frustrated with someone, was getting defensive over text, texting back, trying to defend myself, and I'm just like, "What am I doing?" You know? I'm living in this conversation about dropping the mask and yet I'm still wearing a mask right now because I'm trying to step to this person who's attacking me or whatever I felt like was happening. And when I said, "Okay, I hear you. Thank you for your feedback." I can move on as opposed to having to defend myself. You know, people are going to constantly judge us whether we go after big dreams or do nothing. We're going to be judged either way. If we sit on the couch all day, our parents and our friends are going to be like, "You're lazy. Do something with your life." If we go chase after the most audacious dreams we have, a lot of people are going to attack us and try to bring us down. So, we might as well go do something with our lives and say thank you for the feedback and move on. Some things will land, other things will just bounce right off. And it's our duty and responsibility to be able to move forward and and be discerning of the information we receive, have a close group of of people that we really trust who can cipher some of the information and give the feedback that is worthy, and then try to learn, apologize, move on. That's all we can do. One thing that I that I really liked about the book in the structure of the book was that so you go through this is the mask, this is um some real-life examples of people that have either worn it or avoided wearing it and still achieve at a level that you'd want to achieve. Um and now what do we do right In fact, doesn't it say like what what can we do immediately? So, I liked that a lot. You talked about you have a daily practice. What does that look like? And maybe give it just like in the context of one or two different masks that um either are most frequent for the average person or more frequent for you if that's easier. Yeah, you know, the structure for me I was like I need something that's practical and that's simple that I could read myself and and action on. Otherwise, just writing about theory doesn't do anything for me. Right. Uh so, at the end of every chapter, we break it down First, I acknowledge someone who's lived with that mask, like a prominent person. Then, I tear myself down of how I've lived with that mask, give examples. So, the whole book is essentially putting me down in a way and showing all my biggest vulnerabilities and shortcomings as a man. And then at the end, um we break down just practical steps of how you can move forward. So, one of these steps could be uh getting feedback from people closest to you, emailing five of your closest friends and asking what are your strengths, what are your weaknesses from their point of view. It doesn't matter, you know, if they're right or wrong about something. It's just getting feedback and assessing the information. Um I really love journaling. Journaling for me is a way to express my own emotions to myself, which most men uh I would say in general, I think the viewpoint is men aren't able to communicate their their emotions, right? And it starts with being able to do with ourselves. How do I feel today? When I got mad at this person, what did it do for me inside? How did I How did that person feel after that conversation? you Is that actually what you're writing down, those exact words? Different things, different prompts based on different masks. I give different prompts, yeah. But I mean, for me, it's just more of like evaluating my day, like Total stream of consciousness. Yeah. Yeah. Not worrying about grammar, punctuation, just Whatever. Just I mean, I can't spell in the first place cuz I'm dyslexic. So, I'm just like scribbling and I can't even read what I say afterwards. that it's handwritten? Like, do you think there's something more cathartic about that? writing is powerful. Um any way to get it out, you know, use technology to your advantage. If you want to voice it on a voice memo on your phone, do that. Any way to communicate your feelings. No one needs to see this. Start with yourself. I like having these honest, open conversations more and more. Like, I was so scared to be vulnerable prior to 4 years. And now I love like making people uncomfortable. You know what I mean? It's like I love just being like just asking questions that they would never get asked Mhm. from a guy who looks like me. You know what I mean? And just going there. Because why the heck not? Why be surface level all the time? Yeah. I think there's a time and a place for everything, but really trying to make myself feel as uncomfortable as possible, so I'm never uncomfortable. And the more I do the uncomfortable, it becomes comfortable. Um so it's journaling, it's asking for feedback. It's uh it's it's meditating where I'm just You know, in the morning when I meditate, I set my intention. I literally know how powerful my ego is. And then I could be easily triggered to react like a silverback at any moment. Like it's so easy for me to go to that place if I'm not intentional about the way I want to be throughout the day. Mhm. So that's why when I'm meditating, I'm thinking about any scenario that could happen today. With my girlfriend, what if she gets upset at me for something that I forgot to do? How am I going to respond? Uh you know, if uh a team meeting doesn't go well, how am I going to respond? If someone misses a deadline, if someone does this, if someone does I just try to go through things. How can I respond if anything happens? Am I going to react to everyone around me? Am I going to take ownership? So I try to get clear on my intention for the day and in any area of my life. And when I do that, I feel like I'm prepared. And I think most people, humans in general, aren't as prepared for these challenges. And then they're therefore they repeat their they go back into just wearing a mask. When any situation occurs where they feel attacked, let's put on the mask because that's what feels natural. That's a really interesting point. I want to dive into that. Why? Cuz I so intuitively agree with you. Why at that point is the mask so comforting? Uh it's what we're used to. And it protects us, like you said. Is there structure to the mask? Is there like well, the mask tells me I should behave like this. So, at least I know what to do. I think so. It's a way to protect ourselves to not reveal who we truly are. And when we reveal who we truly are are, we are susceptible for being vulnerable and being wrong. And are the masks, do you think are they created by this um idealized notion of what a real man is? Yes. Okay. I think through our childhood, growing up, the images we've seen from our fathers or father figures, from sports heroes, icons, uh or other um musicians or business leaders, any of the male icons that we've seen growing up, through our teachers. For me, it was a lot of my coaches. These were the the men that taught me through like the most difficult, challenging times for 3 hours a day at practice. And also then our peers in the locker room, in the school, after-school activities, whenever a peer or other boys are telling you don't fall down, don't cry don't cry, don't show emotion, don't be a you know, any type of word we want to use here. Don't be a little girl, don't be a a whatever it may be. All you want to do is be accepted in this little community of your peers when you're growing up. You want to be accepted. And if you stand up to the peers, your group that you're in, and you're like, you know what, I'm going to rise above this and I am going to show my emotions and I am going to cry or I am going to uh not bully the other people like you're bullying them. I'm not going to laugh at that kid because that doesn't feel good. But when you get outcast for trying to be a good human being as a 7-year-old, 12-year-old, 15-year-old, from teammates, bandmates, classmates, whatever, you don't want to be alone as a kid. Mhm. Feeling isolated as a child is for my mind is the the scariest thing. Because that leads to depression, which leads to you know, drugs, alcohol, suicides, prison. You know, I witnessed this firsthand. What it was like feeling outcast, and the thoughts, the conversations I had with myself by feeling alone, going to the principal's office and every time going to the principal's office when I would get in trouble, I would say, "I wish I were dead." I was like, "I have no friends. Why am I even alive? I wish I were dead." I remember saying this, second grade, third grade, fourth grade. So, for me, it's like, "Okay, I need to put on something to be accepted by people. I need to be the biggest, fastest, strongest, so that I'm accepted on a sports team. I need to be able to get a girlfriend, so that other guys think I'm cool and they'll hang out with me. I need to be able to make money, so that I can take people out and pay for their lunch and dinner. I need to be able to be driven enough, so that I'm accepted in society. And I think that's the challenge. It's hard if you're like, "I have these like morals and ideals and I'm going to stand up as a a 7-year-old boy and like, screw the world. This is who I what I what I am, what I stand for. I don't care if you don't want to be my friend. I can do it on my own." Like, we don't think that way growing up. Sure. We want to just feel accepted and loved and just be a part of the class. And I never even felt that way. And so, I was driven to be part of my class, my team. Uh and um Now, I grew up very loving and supportive, but I also grew up driven with these masks to try to be even more accepted, cuz I was afraid to be alone. Now, you talked about in the book, um there was a high school I think she was a high school teacher, right? And she did this basically survey, cuz you were like, "Look, if you think these are outmoded notions um of old that don't apply anymore today, let me show you how present this is." It's more present now than ever. Walk us through what what is It was actually really interesting even though I felt like I understand exactly what he means. It was really neat to see it in black and white. Here is the traditional view of what a real man is. So, walk us through that. I think the traditional view is that a real man doesn't cry, doesn't show emotion, a real man makes a ton of money cuz he can provide for his family, a real man is able to have any woman he wants. Um a real man is strong, athletic, physical. Um and a real man doesn't back down from controversy. So, I think and there's a there's a number of other in the list, but it's kind of like those key things. A real man is intelligent, he can take on any challenge, all these things. And so, that's where we get men who are s- you know, who are stoic, who don't show emotion because you know, it was driven into me day after day to not show fear, to not show emotion on the football field. Driven into you. Don't show them that they got to you, right? Don't let them see you sweat. Just like the simple things you hear over and over. But when a coach is beating you over the head with a whistle, screaming in your face, grabbing your face mask, throwing you down, and you're witness- witnessing this all the time. Because you're showing emotion. You're not going to do it. You're just not. If you want to play the game and you want to be, you know, achieve your goal, you're just like, "Okay, I'm going to be tough." Like I just broke my ribs, I'm not going to let anyone know. Like you just keep playing, you know what I mean? Um and so, it's just challenging. It's just challenging. And especially with boys in locker rooms uh of sports teams, it's like the conversations that you know, the locker talk is true. It happens. Unless there's a group of boys that just stand up and are like, "Hey guys, we're not going to talk bad about these girls or about these other kids or about these guys. We're not going to bully people. We're going to be supportive." It's just rare, I feel like. It's just very rare. And you need to have a group of uh boys who are educated who are educated by in my opinion loving powerful women. And I was so grateful that I had two older sisters and an amazing mother who constantly would like come back from these dates like my sisters would come back from dates and be like never do this Louis, you know, they would like tell me like this guy is a jerk he was an like never do this. And so I learned early on like oh you don't treat women this way. Um and there's a certain way to be in the world. And so I think I was a blessed enough to have kind of that experience and that relationship with women early on that taught me how to treat just humans with respect. Not women in general but I mean human beings all humans. And um that's what it is. I think it's first education. And I think women are the most incredible uh humans in the world in my mind. And you know Why is that? I mean a woman gave me life, you know, I came out of a woman. And for me it's like I wouldn't be here without my mom. Obviously my father was a part of it too but just the love and the uh ability to give so much love. Just like unconditionally I feel like women are just more wired that way in general. Obviously a lot of men are as well but I just feel like that love that support that softness that sweetness. If the world had more of that support there would be so much less wars less fighting less conflict less arguing just with that way of being in general from you know just the love that women bring. I just feel like so blessed to have powerful women in my life that And so that that brings me to my next question which is what then do you see should be the new definition of a real man and is what you just said included in that like should guys be um aspiring to that where somebody would say oh I got equal love, support, encouragement from men and women. I think it's simple. A the definition of masculinity is living at service. Being in service to others and to humanity. We've been given so much just to be on this earth. That's the way I choose to look at life is I've been given so much. Even if I went through so many challenges, I've been given a lot. I feel like it's my responsibility to leave a legacy by making humanity better and making the world better in any way that I possibly can because I was given so much by just entering the world. And that's the way I choose to look at it. Um so, a masculine man is someone who lives in service. Who comes from a place of win-win. Uh of we're all in this together. And someone who lifts others up around them. And what do you So, I assume that you believe in self-love and that that's very important. What should be the basis of self-love? Like what things? Is it what you were just saying and it's like you're looking for the win-win or For me, this is just how I work because it's how my brain works. I I rate myself at the end of every day. I rate myself in my health, my relationships, my business, my spirituality, I mean everything. I just try to give myself a rating from 1 to 10. How did I do? Right. Uh and I rate myself in my emotional well-being. Where am I at? Am I at a one or a 10 today? That's like my health, if I rate it. My business, how did we do today in my business? Uh my relationships with my girlfriend and relationships in general. Uh my spirituality. Those are the main things that I focus Those are the ones. Okay. Uh if I want to rate myself on like creativity and play and adventure, I can do that, like other ancillary things, but it's usually those four core things. And I give myself a scale, you know? And where am I at? And why am I a four? What happened today? What because that made it a four? And what would make it a 10? So I just again am aware and Out of curiosity, do you put those like if two of them are conflicting um like your business and your relationship, which is from a time perspective can often be a conflict. Where do they fall like if you had to make them hierarchical, where would you put them? My vision is my main thing in my life. And I feel horrible telling my family and my girlfriends and my friends that my vision is my main thing. But it doesn't mean that everything else is not a big priority. Sure. And that I don't put my friends, my family, my relationship at a very high level and give them a ton of time and attention and I'm present fully when I'm with them. But for me, I just feel like my vision is the most important thing. And part of that includes my business, part of that includes my traveling to do work, and every interaction that I have. So it's part of every interaction as well. So I just am constantly evaluating based on those things. And I say, "Where am I at? What would make it a 10? What would I need to do?" It's never going to be perfect, but I like to scale things and just rate and evaluate. Give me feedback. I welcome feedback. How can I make it better? How can I improve? How can I grow? Cuz I don't I feel like if we're just not getting feedback then we think we know it all. We think we're we're like already as smart as we need to be. And I know I'm never the smartest person in the room and I just welcome information and feedback. Some things land, some things go right behind me. Um but I'm constantly a demand for feedback in my life. You know, in no way do I have am I this expert of like masculinity and can teach it to everyone. I just have broken it down from all the research I've done with psychiatrists and doctors and uh average age men and women and transgenders and drag queens. I mean, I interviewed everyone and said, "What does it mean to be a man in your mind?" I just wanted to get opinions and feedback and hear people because my way is not the right way. Sure. And I just want to make it simple and easy for men to understand maybe why they've become who they are. How it's supported them, how it doesn't support them. And then also there's a section the end of every chapter for women on how they can understand the men in their lives a little bit better. And how to get them the steps they can take to get the man to take the mask off without making them wrong, which is the most important thing. When a man feels like we're wrong, I'll speak for myself and for a lot of friends I know, when we feel like we're wrong for who we are, it doesn't feel good. So, how can you come from a place of love and semi-understanding when I know it's really challenging to do that and and almost ninja the man's mind and get him to take it off, right? Like, how do you just like come from a place of such understanding and love where they just like, "Oh, I don't need this on anymore." Like, you're not going to leave me, you accept me, you love me. Cool, I don't need it. And that's what it comes down to. Most people don't feel like they're going to be accepted. Yeah, that actually really neat by the way that you put that section in for the women and I thought that it was very smart and telling that you walked them through some of the things that weren't going to work. Like, "Hey, let me just give you a couple triggers that are going to shut him down. He's going to cling that mask to his face." Uh and I thought that that was actually really really useful even if just like if you're sort of in silverback grunting mode that you could be like, you know, pointing at the page like that's the thing that's triggering me and making me want to hold on to that. Yeah, I mean, I was writing this book for myself cuz I was like, I need this more than anyone. Right. So, let me break it down for for more men so they can understand what's holding them back from their truest self and their greatest dreams. And then as I was writing it and researching and interviewing all these people, I was like, "Huh, I bet more women are going to want to buy this book and just understand the men in their lives. Their fathers who have been stoic and show no emotion their whole life or who get triggered and mad in any situation. Their boyfriends, their husbands, their you know, their sons. I mean, so many moms that I've talked to who are like, "I don't know how to get through to my son." And they're struggling. They're struggling to just connect in a loving way with their son when they turn, you know, 12, 14, 18. It's like there's so much peer pressure. And now I didn't have social media growing up, you didn't either. It's like so much information we're getting of what we think we're supposed to be or how we're supposed to act or what we want. And so I was like, "Wow, I really need to make sure I'm writing this as well so that women could hopefully understand a little bit more inside of how a guy thinks and maybe why they act. And the steps on how to get them to to come from a place of who they are and love as opposed to ego, anger, frustration. So we'll see. I hope people like it. No, it makes a lot of sense and I And I was going to say, people are going to like it because it's so useful. And insights are incredible and the the sheer variety of people that you talk about in the book, you directly quote, interview from Dale Dye. And you would think that Dale Dye and Randy Couture, both who you interview for the book, that they would essentially be saying the same thing. They're so archetypal of the like alpha male, but their messages were diametrically opposed. And so that was really interesting. And then yeah, I mean just obviously you've collected a lot of amazing people in your life over the years of doing the show, which is one of the fantasies about doing this is you meet these incredible people and then some subset of them actually stay in your life, which is like the biggest gift doing a podcast will ever give you. Um but all of those people that you've gotten close to make an appearance and and Yeah. certainly in the way that you write about them you can feel the intimacy and there's just parts of their life that we otherwise wouldn't get a glimpse. So, guaranteed people are going to like the book, that's for sure. Incredibly usable, awesome insights. Do you worry that some of the book will be misinterpreted? Uh, I I know it will be. 100%. My intention was to be as politically correct as coming from a good place as possible. But, I mean, just putting out articles about men and women in general with so much happening right now, it's just like the amount of frustration and pain and anger. I'm just like blown away of how the the the anger that men and women feel about the topic. There's a lot of right and wrong happening. And my mission is for people to not come from a place of right and wrong because that's what causes a lot of conflicts. Sure. That's what causes in the book, it's it's about efficacy. Like, what works? works? And if you have an opinion and you just shout your opinion and say, "You're wrong, I'm right and this is the way it should be." Mhm. Most people aren't going to listen to that unless those unless you're speaking to the choir. Mhm. Yes, you're going to rally the troops who believe in that. But, if you want to make real change, listen to everyone else who doesn't believe in that. The reason why, you know, I believe the Democrats didn't win is cuz they weren't willing to listen. Now, I'm not saying there's one party right or wrong or whatever. Like, I'm not It's not even about that. For me, it's like just be open to listening to someone else who has a completely different point of view. And see where they're coming from. I believe the greatest leaders in the world know how to understand where any person is coming from and can connect and communicate on their level as opposed to expecting that person to connect and communicate on the leader's level. Very true. And when they can connect to someone on any level that they're at, that's when you can create change, in my opinion. That's when you can come together. That's when you can have some meaningful conversation and see how you can work together as opposed to working apart. And that's where I think as as men and human beings in general, it's our mission to learn how to be an effective leader in life. A leader with our families, with our communities, and with ourselves. And if we don't understand how to communicate properly and listen, I think the thing that you do extremely well is you listen to the people that you interview. Thank you. You listen to your team. You receive feedback. Maybe you don't agree with it all, but you listen, and I think that is the key to um creating real change, creating impact, getting people to take action is by listening and understanding where they're coming from as opposed to expecting everyone in the world to understand where you're coming from. Mhm. So, the last time that we were um together in an interview, I asked you your famous question, which is what are your three truths? And you said, "Ah, it's always hard for me to answer cuz it's always changing," which I love. So, I want to ask it again to see what different answer we get now because I feel like since I asked you this question, you have changed a lot. Yeah. be really interesting to see Okay. Since I'm not prepared, this is the first thing that's coming off my mind right now. Yeah. The first thing is The first truth is to follow and pursue your dreams. Gosh, I just feel like what's the point of life if we don't have a dream? Mhm. And if we're not in pursuit, I don't care if I ever achieve my dream, but I've got to be in that pursuit cuz that's where I learn the most, that's where I have the most amazing times, that's where I explore, adventure, and travel, and connect with people that I'd never meet because I'm following my dreams. Number one. Number two would be to take care of your health. We have one body that I'm aware of with the technology we have available for us today. And it's the only one we get. Make sure Make sure we're taking care of it to the highest levels. I'm talking about our mental health, emotional health, physical health. That includes being grateful, all these other things that help you live a healthy life. Because without health, we won't have the ability to pursue our dreams for a long time. Mhm. And the third thing is to live in service and give back. We entered this world for some reason. Most of us will never be able to fully understand what that reason is. Maybe we think we know, but who knows if it's the actual truth. We're here for a reason. For us to It's a big playground. And if we don't give back to the world and live a life of service to so many thousands of people who have supported us in getting to where we're at before us, then I feel like we're doing a disservice to the world. Mhm. So, follow your dreams, master your health, and live a life of service. I do. Those are three damn good answers. All right. Where can these guys find you online? Check me out lewishowes.com, @lewishowes anywhere on social media, and uh maskofmasculinity.com for the book. Nice. And last but not least, what impact do you want to have on the world? I want to make sure that people feel good about themselves and that my energy, my interactions, or my content in any form makes people feel better and gives them tools to help them pursue their dreams master their health, and give back to the world. I love that. Lewis, THANK YOU SO MUCH ALL RIGHT, GUYS. I think that we should all have a collective goal here, and that is to make this book outsell The School of Greatness book, which crushed it. So, we have a big task ahead of us, but I'm telling you as somebody that's read it, this is actually going to serve you. There's a lot of really awesome insights that are going to make you stop and reflect on yourself and figure out when you're leveraging the mask, and I love that he's honest. There are times that it actually does serve you. And so, finding where that is, where's the moment where it serves me, where does it cross over into now it truly is a mask, and it's no longer how I actually feel, it's no longer how I actually want to present myself to the world, but I'm living up to just some standard that now is holding me back. And finding that line is really, in his words, the key to finding happiness in your life, fulfillment, and most importantly relationships. And really being able to build the incredible relationship that I know everybody wants, and whether that's with a best friend, whether that's with a parent, whether that's with a spouse being able to really show up, display vulnerability, uh and be able to build a relationship that can survive the the sort of natural ups and downs of the moments where the mask may slip on, and it may not be the right move. Um really incredible, and just love, love, love that this guy, who is a two-sport All-American on the US national handball team, uh former professional football player, is the guy that's bringing this to the world and talking about the realities of masculinity and them not needing to be the trap that we all perceive them to be, and that we were all infinitely more complicated, whether men or women, than the stereotypes and the tropes that we believe were being forced to wear, but in reality we can choose to shuck off at any time, which is why I picked this shirt for today's episode. So, get your asses out of the matrix by reading this man's book and getting rid of some of the things that hold you back. All right, this is a weekly show, so if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care. Thank you guys so much for watching, and if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe, and for exclusive content, be sure to sign up for our newsletter. All of that stuff helps us get even more amazing guests on the show and helps us continue to build this community, which at the end of the day is all we care about. So, thank you guys so much for being a part of the Impact Theory community.