What Itumbi rejected: The secret campaign plan | Public Square

Tom Willi says the allow by election was a fiasco. >> In any case, what we are saying even if we're not going to win safely, we narrow this gap. >> He also thinks that the president is not at fault but the people surrounding him. [music] >> We felt that in fact in his wisdom the president had done the right thing by putting a tumbi because our proposal was based on digital space. >> Between Colono and Suna [music] who should deputize the other? It has to be then >> why >> experience diplomatic connections you know even to be president guys come on >> is there a big man behind to [music] juice tribulations >> but the same day arrested us is the same day that guy was also arrested so I is is trying to tell us that all of us that day tried to extort [music] Rafael Tuju on the same day on people who don't even know each other. >> Hello and [music] welcome to the show. My name is Miss Betty Kitingi and today our guest is Tom Aili. He's going to be discussing about the current state of politics. He is a businessman and a politician. Every day we have headlines that get Kenya talking. But beyond these headlines, what do they really mean? My guest today is going to be dissecting the allow by election among other trending topics in the political industry. The name of this guest of mine is Tom Oilli. He is a businessman, a politician who was an aspirant in 2022 in the Langata constituency as an MP. Welcome Tom. >> Thank you. Thank you so much Betty for having me. >> Mhm. >> Yes. >> Karibana to the show. [snorts] [clears throat] Um, if you see his face is looking familiar, it's because you might have seen him somewhere. But he came up into the internet in when um he came up to the internet during the case of Rafael Tu and you're going to be telling us who is Tu to you from that phone conversation that it was hard you telling him to talk to the president. so that his issues are sorted. Who is Tuju to you Tom? >> Thank you Betty. Um basically well I didn't want to talk about this but uh here we go. >> Please let's start from there so that [clears throat] people can get to understand who are you >> Tuju and I >> come from the county of >> Sai >> we come from Ria. He was our MP at some point. We refer to each other as brothers, the boys from home. >> I've known Tuji for years and uh as you heard in my phone conversation with Jim which was leaked and recorded which was not a good thing to do. >> I was telling him that there are some things where we can solve them in different ways not only through courts because he's right he's dealing with a cabal of very bad people from >> EAB. M and I told him listen as much as you want to go through the courts which is a good thing uh you should also reach out to the head of state and indeed the head of state in SIA just after this saga of my league fall came out he talked about it very passionately and told guys in SI that Tuju needs real friends not scavengers >> and president himself said that Tuju should reach out to him and we see how we can solve uh this issue of is because it is one which is intriguing. It is cryptic >> because it is hard to understand what is going on. When Tuju tries to pay the loan, there's a wall here. When he tries to buy off the loan, there's a wall. So, you know, it has been very hard and you know I I said may I believe in friends and Tuji is one of my very good friends for many years. Indeed, I was with him yesterday. >> Mhm. >> Even after we were arrested by >> Yeah. >> on some issues which are really issues >> Mhm. with my friends. Two prominent lawyers are taken there so that they could get instructions because that particular day the court had ruled against him and uh obviously the next thing was the appellet court >> and that is what they were going to do. So Tuju is your friend. You >> the boy from home. >> Your boy from home is your boy from home. >> And then these two lawyers that you're working closely together on Tuju's case. >> At what point point does EAC come to get you guys? >> Now first and foremost I must say one thing. The first lawyer Washira is a lawyer with a firm I am associated with called IRO. >> Iro wrote a letter to ESC. Well uh not to SEC to ministry of defense a demand letter for a lot of money. I don't want to talk about it now >> but uh we are owed a lot of money by u the ministry of defense and that letter demand letter went on the 4th >> we arrested on the 9th and in that letter there's also um interview I did with the standard newspaper last year and we talked about EC being selective >> Mhm. on the report we gave them on that loss of the money of which we owed by department of defense. So we felt that EC the minute they heard what kind of people are coming >> they moved very swiftly >> i.e. Tom Willie was in the media the other day saying ESC h dodged >> uh the report they was supposed to give for the 1.9 billion actually which is owed to the company and guess what >> the demand letter was done by Washira himself >> he was also caught up with that the other lawyer Mutava Mutava is a friend of ours he was just there to even just give a backup and would listen because I've introduced justice Mutava retired has known Tuju through me. Indeed, I introduced Tuju to him in 2023 cuz I've we've always worked with Tu and talked about these things >> because we want the best for him anyway. >> Yeah. So, Washira claimed that you vindicated him after when ECC came. [clears throat] How did it get to that? Yet, you guys work together and you were trying to connect this lawyers Mutava and Washira to Tuju. At what point who sold you out? Who said that you guys were meeting so that the ECC could come and you know talk about bribery that two as was bribing you? >> How did that come about? >> According to me, this was really stage managed. >> Mhm. >> This was predetermined somewhere. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Because how how would it be that um when uh uh Tu loses the case in Milimmani, he goes straight the same day he goes straight uh reports to ESC. ESC does not even try and investigate or find out what is behind this. They give him some money. They do what? Then he calls me and tells me, listen, I think I need you need you to you need to bring in uh uh your lawyers cuz I've lost this thing and we need to discuss and brainstorm. We've done it before actually. But um all I'm saying is that it was very interesting how it happened that you lose the case the same day catches the same day. And then there was another thing which now even made us wonder more. [snorts] There was another guy called Gumba who was also arrested. I I will not deny I don't know him. I met him only once at Mutiga Golf Club >> on a different issue but we don't know each other. But the same day Yes. He arrested us is the same day that guy was also arrested. So I is is trying to tell us that all of us that day tried to extort Rafael Tuju on the same day on people who don't even know each other. >> So did you vindicate Washira? >> Of course has done nothing wrong. He was just a lawyer going to get instructions. In fact when he was arrested he was going to get his book so that he can pick instructions. We hear guys storming in like guys from the Wild West. >> So why did he say you vindicated him? Did he think you had something to do with it? >> No. No, of course not. We didn't have anything to do with it. Why would I do that? >> So, why did he have those thoughts? >> Well, maybe you'd have to bring him to the studio and ask him. >> So, what was the money about that, you know, Tuju gave to you? >> No, the Tuju this money of Tuju, you know, um Tu and I, if if I'm I'm sure even the transcripts will show and I we've always been tight. You do one or two things. I told him uh I need some cash for one or two things you know well after elections you know you get a bit broke so by the time you recover you need friends to you offered to give me that one meter and uh that one meter I was going to use it for other things these guys were going to get their own instructions on their own but also surprised how he never gives me money that way >> but I was excited to see the money on the table >> yeah Okay, that's how Tom or Willie came into the limelight. A wheelie. It's a wheelie >> with an a >> with an a. It's not o >> alpha. >> Okay. A wheelie. Tom a wheelie. That's how he came into the limelight. Now you seem to be so much in this political circles as much as we just saw you the other day besides you being an aspirant of Langata in 2022. Let's talk about Alcalao by election. You have a lot to say on it and you're calling it the Alcalao fiasco. >> Yeah, it was a fiasco indeed. >> Why? >> I had a ringside seat. >> Mhm. >> Uh well, we uh or me uh I believe in broad-based. >> Mhm. >> The late Amo Oinga, our father, our mentor, may he rest in eternal peace, perpetual light shine upon him, left us there. >> Mhm. Al broad there's where we're going to stay >> I have associated with the family of Ria for years indeed my father was chairman of Ria in 1992 and uh the answer will bear that out through the eology of MP of Bondo Gideon Machanda. >> So [snorts] why do you believe in broad-based government? I believe in broad-based because that is where Raa Minga, our mentor, our father left us. >> Mhm. And uh uh at this point I must say that may he rest in eternal peace. Perpetual light shine upon him >> and where his spirit is let it guide this country because we need guidance. >> His death was so sudden and that is why you're seeing everybody's trying to say who told you. >> We in the who told you? Yeah. >> Baba said this because Baba even in death is still >> he is >> controlling the political pulse of this country. >> Yeah. And now if broadbased watch >> and that is why when you talk about we me and my activists we had a program which we were going to use >> before you introduced to us the program that you had on this broadcast and now that you you know you believe Baba left you there and that's why you guys should stay. Does it still remain valid if the leader that was there is no longer there? Does it mean this the people that are there are still leading the same way Ria would lead? Is it valid to still remain in broadbased when he's no longer there? >> But you know a party position >> Yeah. >> is taken in a collegiate way. >> So whether in life or in death whoever comes has to continue with the party position. It is not an individual. Now whether it's Aburu or who else is there the point is the party had unanimously agreed that they are with broadband and indeed when the sun was up you saw them signing the memorandum of the MUS >> between Aburu I mean the letter Oinga and his excellency the president and their SGS were all there >> and it was live on living color. So for instance if um the agreement or the memorandum that was there is not taken care of um as agreed because I have seen um you know some of the people that left ODM the Linda Moni because it's generally an extension of ODM they have mentioned that the reason that they are not part of the broadbased is because the things that they agreed to have not been done yet. So if those things are not done yet, would you still remain there because the memorandum was there? Would you still remain in broad-based? >> The last report I saw um on the issue of the 10point agenda they had. >> I think out of 10, eight had been done. >> Oh yeah. One of them was even this post election violence or rather the the violence which was meed out on on young boys and women which was not a good thing >> but the compensation be it the thing bringing and Kenya national human rights bringing trying to bring some semblance of consolation to these families who are berieved and the ones who are injured. by by large that's some of the things they were trying to capture and if it is not there I believe like I've said it is not one >> uh uh a person's position it is you go there say your position and like I've said a good party will always come out with one resolution >> yeah so we had a couple of you know areas that they emphasized on on this memorandum one the national unity I'll probably just run down through and you can tell me Yes. You think that has happened? National unity. Do you think in terms of political polarization we've done better? >> Yeah. Yeah. We've done better. But you know politicians are always politicians and they should be allowed to do that. >> But you see the people that you cannot force people to be inclusive because according to what I see is uh who is not in who is not in >> you see thing is the the people who are supposed to be taken care of. It's not really about the politicians in this case. It's about the people. Yeah. So you believe that political polarization has reduced? >> Definitely. >> Economic recovery tackling the high cost of living. Do you think >> we have uh August 12th uh 2026 his excellency is addressing that on that day. So you can see the gears towards that. >> It's it's about addressing. >> No, there are gears towards that. It's not being tackled. >> Yes. But that is how you start. You must start from somewhere. >> Oh, it's been a long time. This memorandum was signed in 2024 though. >> It's better late than never. >> Aha. In terms of governance and accountability, do you think the public institutions are improving their service delivery? >> Public institutions are not doing very well. They're not doing very well. ESC like I said is elective. Uh um attorney general is not being listened to. Uh control of budget is not been listened to. Yeah, we have too many problems on that end. >> What is Broadbes doing in regards to that now that you guys are a team? >> Well, now you'll have to ask the leadership on that one. >> You're part of Broadb. >> I'd be very happy to hear those answers. >> Do you think youth opportunities that was also part of the memorandum have increased in terms of employment? I think the honorable Alfred Ma has been telling us how he has opened up discussions and memorandum with some people outside. I'm seeing TVETs are coming up training. >> Yeah. So I think >> discussions but we've also seen the people who've gone out there. Some of them have gone to agencies that have taken them to the jobs that they did not plan on doing. Do you think taking people outside is better than creating jobs here in Kenya? >> Well, you see, opportunity outside is always good also so that uh cuz not everybody can be employed here or can get opportunity here. But I I I think what we need to do is I think that tried to tighten up um the agencies who do this kind of work >> and we have to find a way of dealing very firmly and decisively. >> Yeah. with agencies who take people for odd jobs, especially our young girls who are taken to Saudi Arabia >> and men taken into the military front line with two weeks of training. >> Yes, this is a very serious issue. We should really clamp down and catch up and take them to court. The guys who did these heinous crimes, >> broad-based is supposed to address that. >> Yes. >> Uhhuh. Implementation of the national dialogue committee recommendations in terms of reforming governance electoral matters devolution has that been taken care of >> that is something we cannot discuss on a day like this and that needs for us to look at the reports which have come out >> I mean just generally too just generally too from what you know >> no we don't want don't want to hear say these are reports which have been generated are there and they are factual >> this is a big one anti-corruption efforts in improving inefficiency in government. >> Who has been arrested? Have you ever seen anybody arrested on issue of anti-corruption? People arrested is one who took 2 million. The other day we were seeing in in Akuru I don't know seven people arrested for 120 million. Those small fish we want we want to capture the right things. >> Yeah. Now you see all these things I've mentioned these are part of the memorandum of association that was created during the coming together of Rioinga government rather party and RO's um UDA broad-based so do you think they have lived up to the promise >> you know what I'm going to do for you Betty my friend uh the CG Katherine Romano Busia woman rep is a good friend of mine >> I will look for her >> and I'll talk to her next time I come to this studio I will give you very very clear answers. >> But you believe in the broadbased. If you are to advise President R today, what would be your top priority for the broad-based government? >> You know, >> before the next election, >> you know what the president is doing is the right thing. This inclusivity >> Yeah. >> is very important. Bring everybody on board. And I like the way he says nobody in this country is going to like development because of political affiliations >> or inclinations for that matter. And we do not want also politicians making pronouncements because they want narrative political narrative sold and now you go bashing the president or bashing the government because the president is the symbol of national unity. >> So we must adhere to that in everything we do. Even if we don't like is politics you know there's a dictim American say I might not like what you say but I will do everything to make sure you say it. M >> so let's leave and let leave. >> Let's talk about the fiasco like you're calling it >> and you were telling us about a proposal that you had for Alalao to make sure UDA clinches that seat. >> I didn't say clinch but I'll tell you one thing. >> You no longer be leaving your proposal. >> No, no, no, no. The only way the proposal would have worked is like the proof of the pudding is in the eating. So if we never got there, we said we can >> improve >> what UDA would have brought as votes from Okalao. >> How would you have done seat? I had a ringside seat. I was seeing everything. >> Our proposal of which we still hold dear >> and we know can work was shared by UDA >> was shared at UDA >> or at to UDA. >> Was shared by UDA to UDA. >> Mhm. uh by director road based team >> us guys now >> okay >> by uh we shared it with the director of political affairs uh Mr. Jillo and he saw >> the reason and the need to have it. >> Mhm. uh we further went ahead and said you know what um this thing can work. But the thing about it is that uh it was structured in such a way that uh we knew that it would not work for some certain people. >> Mhm. >> Because the way it was going to work, it was going to need campaign funds because when a campaign uh when a campaigns of course campaigns need money >> but the good thing about it, it was going to be able to be evaluated, >> monitored. >> Mhm. accounted for, >> reports given remotely. >> For obvious reasons, there are some people who are never comfortable with that >> cuz campaign fines coming from any ruling party is said to come up like water from a tap. >> It is a lot and everybody feels that it is there by wherever it comes from. But whoever releases it has a lot of it. M >> so what we were saying is we wanted to shepherd how we were going to approach oral and you know alkalo was a bell weather election >> for the general elections especially in mount Kenya >> and uh we went further ahead soal kujituma >> mhm >> to kajuma because now after we spoke to uda uh the director we felt he could not move further than that to open up to other offices and that time the SG you know he had a storm with the the so-called utterances he did in Mombasa so central or rather mount Kenya was a place >> he would not want to get into >> so we just did a casy call on him and we told him and we watched >> now is a good thing cuz I'm a politician so I know how to push my buttons >> I maneuver and find myself >> Mhm. going to see uh cabinet secretary Rebecca, >> Minister of Tourism. >> She is or rather she was the head of the campaigns in Alawa >> team leader. >> Mhm. >> We went to see on a Monday. We got in there on time. We were ushered in. The first 15 minutes she heard what we're all about. It blew her mind. Said, "What? where have you guys been? Said, "It's not too late. We can do it." Said, "Really?" Then she looked at her personal assistant and asked her, "Where have these people been?" >> Then she said, "Listen, scramble. When can these people come back? I need to hear this more." >> The guy said, "Tuesday." She said, "No, this is of very very this is A1. >> We need to do this today." So we ushered out. An hour later, we come back. >> Yeah. We continue and we told mama listen madam s you know this thing would have started early so when you ask her a question like where have you been it's you what have you been doing about it said what do you mean what you've been doing about it >> said but we we've been told you're the one who has been sitting on this thing that's why >> because we feel that time is of the essence and we need to deploy this thing then mama said who who said they told me about we said jilo she picked jillo I don't want to go there with what jello was But Jillo clearly had not told mama this thing. >> Mhm. >> Long and short of it, when we finish our meeting, she says, "Now listen, I need to introduce you guys to the secretariat which is led by Dennis." >> Mhm. >> Wow. We said, "Now we are going. Now we are talking now. >> Progress. >> Progress." >> Mhm. >> We leave the office 2 days, 3 days, nothing. After a week, we asked Jillo, "What's happening?" I think Jillo said you guys were in the big office. We can't get to mama. So Jillo indicated that it wants to see us in Alcalao. You went to Alcalao with my team. >> We land. First thing is where is this guy? Time is of the essence secretariat. Where is it? We're imagining like any normal setup. There's a place you can knock the door or a place you can drive into and you're told this is a secretariat of so and so. There was no secretariat as far as I'm concerned. Those were camil moves by it. There was nothing like that. >> So the CS was not aware how she thought you know >> CS was saying I'm talking about a secretariat which was I think on the cloud. I think the secretary operating on cloud. >> Mhm. >> You know he's an IT guy so he doing things on cloud. Now >> when we get there uh day one we can't see this secretary yet we've been told yes it comes you watch a soccer there cuz it was world cup then we said okay so fine fair enough we'll see what to do the next day >> when having breakfast in the hotel kabogo comes in hey here one of my activist knows him very well >> they love we have all breakfast all of us have breakfast at the hotel and with one UDA um or not a UDA person but independent MCA of Ruri, one of the ws in one of the five ws in Alcalao. So we have this good breakfast. Then what my activist goes with Kaboko to launch the digital hubs you know everybody was there. So Kaboko comes to launch the digital hubs and he goes out of his way to also try and campaign remove some of his resources just to you know try and fish in some votes. uh in the evening we meet and we wanted to sell this thing to him but we told me I said fine fair enough he's going to send somebody >> to listen to us >> this guy comes wearing a hoodie >> Mhm. Ask for um what is this thing you guys take for DA? Ask for DA listens to us and my activist trying to sell this thing. Then I said listen uh this thing is not cryptic but it needs understanding for so would prefer if uh we gave it to two or three people or but he said no no he's good enough he's been sent by Tumbi he can understand it. So we give him presentation mean we've left Kabogo somewhere. Mhm. >> Time we finish Kaboko is leaving is going. Then we realized uh after day 2 three of giving that presentation we realized this thing is not going how we wanted. We're running out of time and people are not listening. >> So we decided now what we'll do let's try and work with the MCAs also. So MCAs were aligned with us. >> Mhm. And then we're asking them why are you guys aligned with us and yet you're the locals? Cuz me I brought a product or I brought a system or a proposal. >> I don't speak that language. So mine was more technical. >> So the guys to impart the language I'm activist and this MCS. So when they had >> what it was about they said I think this is what is going to happen Tom >> because this is going to bring signy and convergence. >> Yeah. people are going to understand what you guys are all about because today and just like it has been proven and you saw look the electorate today is more open. >> Mhm. >> Let nobody say money is not working. Money will forever work. Even in the US money works >> but how do you apply it? There has to be a dignified way of doing some of these things. >> And the word which came to what we were doing is the word perpetuity. Mhm. >> Now we are asking them, you're throwing everything at them, what next? July 15th comes, the clowns, the suckers, the trucks roll up the carpet and drive out of town. What have you left behind? Our proposal was going to see how we were going to make sure that perpetuity continues till today. What your plan was your plan going to make an impact also immediately as much as it was to continue? >> Of course. Of course. >> So for you your plan was not a short notice because everything else was done on short notice from everything that was given to the people of Alcala. >> Look look that is what I like about what you're saying on short notice. If everything even boats could be brought on short notice, why was our plan not even given the time of day in cabinet secretary Kaboko also heard about it and he said wow and his words were I but maybe Tom you want to see you know what he told me on my face >> he told me Tommy ti is too big for you >> then I told you're right and weri asked but the thing is he even asked But do these people really want to give their best shot at this election? We left it hanging in there because of what was going on there. It was not the best thing. >> Do you think the people of Kalao made their decision based on what exactly? Because they were given mattresses, gas cookers. They were given all these things for you know in a very short time. money I hear was flowing very well in Okalao at that time. Do you think the people of Okalao made a decision based off um what they were getting or they made a decision based off they were not contented with what was happening before? >> First and foremost if I look at Okalo I think the biggest mistake was and not in a bad way. Uh if you look at somebody like me, Senator Meu, him is die hard. You look at uh Reg those are hard men, hardened and they are out there to prove a point. Now you take Mama Rebecca Mo C to be head of the campaigns. >> Mhm. >> She is not into scalery. Skullgery was the only thing which would work there. You must be a somebody who does everything the way they do. That is one. Number two. >> So you mean they failed at putting mama. She was not qualified for the type of >> mama is not ones. Mama is not on those ones. Now if she could not even raise funds to help our case and she saw it, >> she could not even raise a bit even two or three million shillings and say guys let's test this thing. >> Let's test and see how it works. because she understood it. The only problem was she had with it is where the finances. But she knew it would work and she knows it can work. Indeed, she said she'd apply it in the future if their finances. If they really wanted this thing to work, they should have given it a chance. Well, now you are a supporter of Broadbast and UDA is part of Broadbast and you were there to offer the support in in terms of your proposal that you feel they would have it would have been of so much help. >> Does this mean >> the execution ideas that UDA used on Calalao if they still use it in the coming election it reflects on that and it's going to make them fail again? You know like I I I I keep on saying that uh the issue which we had in Kalao >> people went there with egos. Everybody had their own program and when the program comes they look for finances and when they look for finance they cover it. >> Everybody was those ones of this is mine. >> And then that other one is looked at this one needs money. It will drain whatever resources are coming in short. There's nothing like now the secretariat. You ask yourself what the hell was you doing. >> He was not seen anywhere. >> But you're still in support of this broadcast. >> You used to make a visits at 2:00 in the morning is the only time what if you wanted to beat this thing and you wanted to give yourself a respectable number of votes, you should have been more embracing than pushing people out. I'll give you an example. How is it that we'd sing and shout on the rooftops that why are you leaving MCAs out of your out of your campaigns? Who does that? An elected MCA independent in such a big world like Ruri was put aside. He was busy with us every other day trying to look for it, trying to look for mama. We were busy following these people. Why? Because we wanted us guys at Broadbest, his excellency the president to have at least a good number of votes and a good percentage of the votes. Look, we got 13%. What is 13%. >> So if they didn't involve the grassroots leaders to talk to their people, what does that say about those leaders themselves that something was happening in their constituency that they are not involved? They know nothing about. Are they sure they are also working for the people? >> Now look, [gasps] how do you want an MCA to go around using his own resources? Why? That is one. Number two, have you engaged him to ask him what do you think about 123? Do you have a forum like that? >> Why did they choose to involve the leaders? >> But like I said, and I believe everybody saw this as a cash cow. Government threw in a lot of money. Like Ricky G, I'll agree with him. government threw in a lot of money. Some people made themselves rich. [snorts] >> This might reflect in the coming election. >> No, it will not. As far as we are concerned, this is going to change. >> So, in short, you're saying that it being the head of that secretary that you claim might have not been existing. >> It was a he didn't colle this is embarrassing. I even had two occasions to have a private conversation and meeting with Mushyaga and you could feel it. I told Mushina listening is a very painful thing but at least you are lucky you're being supported by the ruling party. Somebody a sponsored party. I stood on independent I lost. when you lose an election day one bedroom and I told him the way you're going you're not going to win this thing >> in any case what we are saying even if we're not going to win we narrow this gap >> let's narrow the gap let's get a percentage >> with all these resources now if resources could not even pay like now my the people who I was with there and somebody who asked me were you sent by UDA were you sent by no I said no you know in the Bible Luke 9:E 50 when the disciples started shouting oh Jesus look that guy is casting demons in your name oh should we beat him should we stop him Jesus said what no no no so long as he's not against us he's with us >> I spoke to the CG Katherine Emanuel before I left to the ground looking for resources to help our system to help UDA. Can you imagine >> after UDA campaign propos we couldn't get she even tried herself to get because as guys we believe when we support you we support you fully >> so in short you guys felt left behind. Does it mean now the team that came from ODM was not involved? Because now it's broad-based. It's UDA and ODM. >> Let's get it right. There was no team from ODM. There was no team from ODM. >> It's just UDA that was managing the broadbased was not involved. No single person >> look >> can say they were involved. >> Look, let's all agree if UDA won this thing, >> the celebrations would have been in all areas of broadb. Mhm. >> We want the president to win because where we are today, people are trying to sell fear. Oh, president might lose because Mount Kenya nin. Well, we've agreed Mount Kenya has always been swaying. They the tip they have won from two or two. >> You see, from your conversation, it feels like that girlfriend that loves a man that does not love them back. >> Yes. >> Is that the case? >> And you know what we need to do? You've said it right. If I look at, you know, I told cabinet secretary Kabogo that he's been MP uh governor CS is a party leader. So I was telling him why can't you be the counterweight because let me tell you guys me there I've seen rig ah kneel before me by kneel before me give me your jacket he's going to make so many demands and where opposition will have problems at by the time you're negotiating with rigg >> for him to give you that support it cannot be that there's only one person who is doing this even if he says it will be a colleiate way but he looks like look he's even giving guys ultimatums by 15th talker Yeah, before we talk about Gashagua, let's finish on Itumbi because you see Dennis Itumbi has been a close ally of the president for a long time. He has used his services since 2022 in the digital space. Um, he seems to know his way even during the time of Ruto. Yeah, he seemed to he seems to know his way throughout the years. >> Why do you think the president has kept him closed if he's not delivering >> that digital space? I do agree with you. Uh-huh. >> He's good at it. I've heard of it. He's good at it. And guess what? >> Mhm. >> We felt that in fact in his wisdom, the president had done the right thing by putting it to me because our proposal was based on digital space. >> It would have been like a fish in water for him >> if only he took the time to listen. If only he took the time to say, you know what, let me understand or write for me a report if he was that busy or if he was too big. As Kabogo says, >> if he really wanted to win this thing, we allow where else would have we been? We didn't ask him to come to Nairobi. Take 10 minutes. You're fighting such a pivotal election that you cannot hold anything down. You must say, who are these? let them come in. And guess what? When the guy came, the guy who he sent his emissary 2 days later, we asked him what happened. You know what he tells us? Oh, the president said it's a good idea, but we'll apply it later. And it was a wrap. It was done. They never came back to us. So what? >> Well, maybe they didn't trust you guys because also maybe you are not part of the planning since the beginning. >> That is true also. >> That is also true. But why would we come and we why would I work for GI? Do you know what Ri what did Raa say about >> and I cannot waste my time going to support in any case to what end? Why would we go to if we're not convinced that we're with these people? So if it remains in the same position, what happens? I mean >> this system I have needs it. That's the irony. >> Yeah. >> Because he guru it is system based. >> Mhm. >> It is covert. It is subterranean. It is fantastic. When the president came, president [clears throat] is also smart. I saw when the president came from uh an overseas trip >> there somewhere he dashed to >> and he talked to some certain people we felt that he came close to what we were trying to do but it quite didn't work so he reversed it and left it but believe you me it will be I will tell you nothing personal but uh the digital world where you are we can sit down it will work for you and that is what we're going to give it. We're going to hand it over to you. We're not going to ask for for anything else. We're going to hand it over to you and it would have been fun for you. You'd have got at least another 10,000 votes. >> That I can tell you would have gotten to that threshold of 25 over behind and above and that's what we discussed with Mushina. Come at let's have some semblance of respect. say my 13% my 5,000 >> even when your children look at you daddy I all the which was given >> they'll probably argue it's because this was a mount Kenya region and that's why they were probably not beat but I mean that would be the argument because Embu they did take the spot >> yes they did but remember Embu >> was not it was a fic win so to speak because Hey, opposition got 15,000. >> Yeah, >> they all got 15,000. >> The difference I don't know 500. >> So it should still worry. >> You should worry because that is a bi-election where you threw everything at them. >> Yeah. >> A general election where there's not even mi >> where nobody will give you anything. >> Yeah. And they mentioned that the things that were put there were taken to be given to people. >> I've never been that side. I I know I have family there >> but I cannot talk about that. me what I saw in in Okalao is worrying to me and I keep on saying >> that there's no way we're going to get better results if we continue the way we're going and I'm saying and I'm on record that it may have been ahead of secret target not that we remove him because what we are going to do is uh in the digital world it is based on cloud And he's good at that. In fact, I believe what we can give him can work. But what he did the other side, Aana, don't put him in those things. How do you put him as head of secretariat? >> What do you like to see? >> What was he doing there, which we we didn't see anything he was doing? >> That's probably the head of the party's >> But that is why you've got the result. So now that we have tried with this election which we said is a bell weather election for mount Kenya then uh we move with speed and like in any every other office you switch him to the right place >> you say my brother this place was not working for you >> but we we are not saying we chase him away you know he's the president's guy >> even I was told every evening he wears a silence. >> So as we didn't want to that we were going to hand over this thing to him so that they get some semblance of something. >> Yeah. >> Well, let's talk about Gashagua. He has always, you know, claimed the president is surrounded by young people, the likes of the likes of it, like he likes to call him the blogger. >> Do you believe Kashagua's sentiments >> about obviously those are sour grapes? How is it suddenly these people have become bad and used to be with them? The fact that the the train was stopped with Qua breaks and he was told where Shuka in fact he was thrown head out. Now suddenly these people have become bad. You know the politics which are playing these are politics which are this selfish politics. >> Fine they might have their excesses and their weaknesses and their failures. Yes. >> But it it's ironical that is Gashago who's calling them on this the last two years when he was in um in Harambe house. Was he talking about this? Was he not the one seated there with all commanders of the police? >> I mean, Gash has gash his own fault. Bombers, >> he has his own faults, that's for sure. But my question is, do you agree with his sentiments about the president being surrounded by young people? Because you yourself >> is seeing the things that they are doing, you know, these are the people that are surrounding the president. Do you think that his sentiments are true? I think what the president needs to do and I hope he's there at the road to Damascus >> president I hope you're already there because if you don't change it will be a problem but I've noticed the president never loses friends he never throws them away even after the Jenzir revolt and you know changing his cabinet >> there are some who even if they are not given jobs were slotted slotted there well that's a good idea I wish they let Ria would have that >> cuz that's the only way to move mass Do you think it's about age for these people that are surrounding him or it's about what's amazing? This is the youngest executive we've ever had. >> Yeah. >> His excellence is 59 years old. You find some PS is 45 years old. But things are not working. >> So is it about it's is it an age matter or is it the individual matter like we have young people who can do the same job? >> It starts from the top the president himself. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. call out some guys and say listen boss 1 2 3 he's really trying as as I see even when you see him talk >> you can see this is somebody who's feeling that some certain things must be done >> but now the execution becomes a problem and if not only in the execution even the long term uh how how how far can we maintain this >> concentrate on something from A to Zed and finish it >> do you know his the president's political advisers do you think they are doing their job right >> I don't know who these fellows are >> but there's one guy who I've always felt that what happened to Farukq even during this thing of I tried calling this guy one message cuz I do understand you know he's a president's boy like this just like me and Tu the boy from home I hear that guy is the boy from home for president >> I hear so too >> so I I I said look uh Kibet the little I've heard about him is he's a guy who listens You saw he went to Malava delivering that squeezy malab too much. >> He needed to be on this one. >> Mhm. >> Do you know Betty? I went out of my way to even talk to some of the president's relatives and I got no signal. >> Zero saying rise to >> idea. >> I'm on record being in ODM. By the way, let me tell you, let me surprise you. Do you know in 20007 during post-election violence, I was already campaigning for counselor in Langata. >> I got the ODM ticket. But those days language I could not speak it well. Mhm. >> Then my wife is from where was coming from head of state >> only who tried to help me zero. >> So do you think Farooq would have done a better job as the head of secretariat instead of >> in maturity I think he would have because we needed somebody who is mature and sits there. I'm not saying that Nani is not but somebody who would have been more inclusive >> because these things surely you cannot have them all in your fingertips and that is why Moy for 24 years he was able to beat everyone in the game because listen to everybody there's a virtue listening will never kill you >> listen and you learn something >> but the issue was oh they might hear is cuz every proposal in a campaign equates to what? Money. >> Yeah. >> Money. >> Mhm. >> So when you hear a guy bring a proposal in such way he wants money but first listen him I hear him out. >> This was one whereby if it is UDA money or the president's money or they saying they would be a I would be able to show them where your money has gone to >> and show you results even live results >> which is still on the cards. M >> well you mentioned Kashagua is you know telling MC's to join DCP as soon as possible. MPs. >> Yeah. MPs. Yeah. Yeah. To join disappear as soon as possible. August happy end. What is it? >> No. You see the people are still serving. >> I mean I mean MPs are still serving the people. >> Some have their own programs they're doing. Be it with the government or be it with who. But you know government is central and our politics you know how it is. >> If you're on good books the things you'll get and we are going towards that politics a year from today we'll know who's head of state. >> So them joining DCP right now does it mean they stop you know executing their projects? >> But that is what everybody's asking. >> That's the question because you guys have a problem with you know gashagua telling them to join DCP. So it means it's affecting the work that they do for the people. What what we are saying is and I keep on repeating Gashagua will be a problem for these people because DCP definitely there'll be a fallout and most of these big parties like now everybody talk about DCP and what even in Cano you see parties don't fall they implode even like Canu what happened to Canu Canu went down in 202 it became so powerful that the only way it had to go out and the only way to beat Ko was for it to implode. When this kinaro mud they all in there it was such a serious movement but when Uhuru was given the the ticket >> it imploded until today 20 years down the road they have never recovered. >> DCP will face that kind of thing. The only question every politician must ask in M Kenya is if he's played. >> Do you think broadbast is facing that one right now? Because it doesn't seem like there's inclusivity. >> All political parties will face that. But you see the goodness of broad-based you'll find that there is breathing space >> but there's no you're breathing but there's no you're not being included. No, what we are saying right now h you see you cannot just have one monolithic party >> mhm >> in a whole area that is what gashagua wants I am lord and behold it's through me or the highway >> kingpin >> yes kingpin >> even the little I know about kiku that mudamaki thing is never been there kiku used to have a communial thing of doing but gashago wants to do it alone but pretending that atoro that they are discussing they're not discussing he's just using those people to leverage. Then from there he goes to the table and says min >> but it seems like that's the same thing happening in your camp. So it means it's happening everywhere. Everyone is playing politics. >> Yes, that is normal. That is what we are saying. But all I'm saying is >> that you also have to have leadership >> which at least can uh expansion and contraction is there. Somebody who can let you breathe a bit not just whipping you into position. >> Who is complaining? The MPs. The MPs are complaining. You've seen it in the newspaper. >> Yeah. And I don't want to start naming them, then they start blaming me tomorrow. >> Well, [gasps] okay. So, let's talk about the latest one. It's on the side. This is not about, but it's about Kagushia. >> Ah, Kagushia. You know, those are things. >> Why is he been detained? >> Even me, I'm wondering. >> But, you know, you've not asked about our running mate. You know you you know our running mate in Okalo like we said >> it was bell weather election >> very pivotal and is going to determine he running mate for president that thing was on the cards >> I personally tried to talk to the so-called aids >> of Abraham Kandiki our deputy president >> oh yes we didn't talk about Abraham Kandiki not sure at all >> really you see him is always a missing link like now we almost missed him that's true >> we almost missed again. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] >> Imagine you almost miss this fella. >> I mean I think because he was no show. Why do you think he was no show? Because you are ground as Betty. We're going to have this show and we don't discuss him. Hey. No. No. We I need to something needs to be done. >> Why do you think you are going to be the biggest beneficiary of what was going to happen even if you didn't win? That was Mount Kenya Westuja. >> But do you think he thought so himself? >> I don't know. There's something which went wrong here because even the intelligence why would have they refused him to come? >> That's the question. Is there lack of inclusivity again? >> Uh that would not come >> by choice. >> No, you know he's uh you know is number two. >> Yeah, he is >> second in command. >> That's true. >> And uh he took over from the second in command of the mountain. So now the king of the mountain is what guys are grappling with. who is the one to be there. I felt and I did a video with one of his personal aids and send him and he blinked. We told him you come to the ground. Hey, I was there. Who's telling me not to come? I'm the deputy president of the sovereign nation called Kenya and I can move to any corner of this country >> without anybody's permission and even if I so come to >> and you deny me vote it's okay how are you fire what is >> so >> so you come and do those fire nor at least we see you there but now you didn't come >> so there are two why confidence or not being included. >> Lack of confidence. Lack of confidence. And I tell you, I spoke to the SG and I'm saying it loud and clear. >> SG >> SG of ODM, Madame Busia County Rep. Madame Katherine Omanu. I told her broadbase is not going to be following if he's not going to deliver. But let me tell you, Kindi cannot beat Gashagua. M but thing is also I believe it shows because uh there's a reason the president had a choice to pick Kindiki or Riati but he went fori >> as the deputy president so Kindiki was nominated he probably didn't believe in his numbers from way before why do we think that has changed >> those days those days and let's say the truth whether it would have been Kindiki or not >> president probably would have still sailed through because Ria was in the you know this Kiku is with Raa phobia. >> They'll do that. Now, this time we're going to do for them also. >> You know, the law of which I'm one and >> not tribal, not in a bad way. Let's just enjoy the banter is sweet. M >> it's like you know us guys lose Arsenal >> some who watch soccer you know they like volleyball >> but the ones who who play soccer and love manu >> so your game like now >> powerh and I'm just tellingu make sure >> that when you seek that power cuz you have it >> make sure you enterprise laws >> in kisumu We don't just dancing like this. Enterprise them. Bring entrepreneurial activities around >> in case >> so that the economy moves >> in case he like a running mate. >> No, I'm just saying where he is today is in proximity to power. >> Yeah. >> So he has already got power. You don't have to be running mate. Running is still >> I think he's still asking for it. >> Running mate is still far. What have you done since you came into this thing? >> That's the question. >> Yes. And that is what I'm trying to tell him that what we need to do is to ensure that your people and I'm not saying I'm saying and I agree with when you see the minister of cooperative saying he wants to step up. Yes, he should step up. >> Yeah, because the other side is like Raa and Makaru. You saw how how disastrous it was. Do you guys feel like you're giving Ubu um the responsibility that is too heavy for him to carry because it was Ria's responsibility? >> Well, like we have told you, Raa was larger than life. >> Yeah, he was >> where we are today and Aburu has said it so many times and so often >> that whatever he says is done in a colleate manner. his is just the head of ODM and the mouthpiece is the SG >> to say what they have discussed on plenary. So this thing of trying to say oh Buru Buru is just there because somebody has to be there anyway. >> Yeah. >> But ODM is the way they do things they sit down like any other party they discuss because let me tell you these are uncharted waters and good navigators are made in uncharted waters. Do you think the reason as to why this other part of broadbeast the ODM team is not been included is because they probably feel you people are not as powerful because you've not been like part of the journey as compared to the people that were on top there the people we easily attach the ODM to the likes of orango the likes of Sifuna the likes of Babuino do you feel the reason that inclusion is not happening is because they do not value that team as much. >> That is a worrying thing and it's genuine uh genuinely worrying because ODM was made of different signages, different people. >> If I hear my governor being vilified, >> James Angry Orango >> Orango fought for multipartism just like Raa did. He was incarcerated. He was beaten. He was whipped. Even when you see Sabas Saba, he goes out there. Orango is a special guy. Even he went when the 2017 petition against the president Huru Kinata. I never forget when he says that was the smoking gun. That guy is magnificent. But he should be allowed to enjoy the democratic space he so fought for so hard. >> And Cifuna also has his democratic right and he feels if this is his time, it's his time. What we saying is ODM >> for obvious reasons >> you know the system which has happened in this country there's no party which survives >> an election >> a presidential candidate comes he'll move with this and he dies >> DP Kbaki PNU it that's normal but now with Raa's death it was bound to happen so it's nothing new >> it's nothing new >> so what if what if this part these people that left ODM or rather they didn't leave ODM. What if the reason as to why they didn't want to join Broadbast is because of what you guys are going through not being included? What if that was the reason they had foreseen? >> Which guys had not been included? >> Oh, the ones that decided, oh, you guys, you're not your proposals. >> Which guys? Which guys? >> Oh, part broadb. >> No, no, no, no. They're there. They're there. Who said we're not been? Who are we? >> Your proposal is not >> My proposal had nothing to do with ODM. My proposal had to do with Dennisi and his secretariat in Alcalao as UDA. >> Mhm. >> Yes. >> No, I mean I know it has nothing to do with ODM, but you are part of ODM. >> No, I'm not. >> You are part of broadband. >> I'm just one of those guys who's casting away demons using the president's name. >> You're not part of ODM, Tom. >> Jesus said I'm not. I left ODM. >> So what is ODM? >> Let me tell you why I left ODM. ODM February 14th, 2010, his excellency, the prime minister of Kenya wakes up and fires William R. I was one of the first people who drove to the airport cuz William R was minister of agriculture and I don't know he was going to which country in Europe and we told him Baba we are with you. I've always supported him because I saw the energy he put in 207 >> to make sure that what was stolen at least half of it came back. >> That man fought heart his heart out and I told them this is the future. This is the future. I'll call you that broadbased >> but it's working. What is the problem? Who's complaining? Oh, >> you guys are saying you're not complaining. The only thing we are saying iso was done in a very shambolic way. >> No, it's not working because we've gone through >> and see how that can never and should never happen again. >> But we've gone through the manifesto memorandum. not the manifesto but the memorandum of association that was signed during broad-based agreement and we've seen some of these things have not been executed so it's really not working >> why don't we do this like we agreed let's get the report there's a report which was which was table >> you see you you see how you measure the KPI of working leaders you go outside there and ask people how has your life been the past 6 months that is how you measure the KPI and that's the work of probably the NIS to get information how is it happening So even if we call the leaders here and the people on the ground that we are taking care of are not satisfied then the reports really >> yeah but that one I agree with you the those KPIs and the reports have to come from somewhere and there's a way which we can know if these uh reports are doctorred or if it is >> the true value of what they are for. >> Yeah. So for me, you know, like we know, like I I keep on saying, if if I may go back to Alcalao, >> if you look at Alcalao, like I said, Mo, Rebecca Mo, lovely lady, very nice, sophisticated, but Skolgajger, which is needed in Mount Kenya now, she does not have it. >> Um, my big bro William Kabogo, CS, ICT, he has this to JB party. Mhm. >> Even if you know he's the only counter effect I felt and he comes from the great Gambo County which has enormous votes. >> He was the first county he was the first governor there. He would have given guys at least a fallback position. Yeah. >> A fail safe so to speak against uh DCP. Then you have my brother. My brother I love this guy Mai Kaguy. I knew him Kaguya even before he became member of parliament. Even today I call him chairman. He was not on the scene. Those four if they love the president watch said to need to bring in other guys because from their areas I will get nothing. >> Kashagua is there rough and tumble. >> Yeah. >> Beating Gashagua tall order. >> We must admit they say if you want to win a war respect your enemy so to speak. We're not saying he's an enemy. M >> but we're saying you we know your bad news. >> So among the potential presidential aspirants that we are probably thinking about we have R, we have Colono, we have Cifuna, we have Matiangi. Do you have another person that has shown interest? Let's those four. Who do you think would beat the sitting government? >> It has to be Colono. >> Oh really? >> Yeah. You know what we are going to do? People please understand a young presidency or a young executive does not mean that we are going to have a good government. >> That's true. And old as well vice versa. >> But there are some things which are inherent in us that the older you are the more careful you are in terms of trying to leave a legacy. >> Hey Tom, we have all had older. >> See Colono now is what? He's 7 what? 75 >> we have had older >> he's not going to step aside for anybody now you can you imagine ata president colono how risky >> you know my concern with all these >> there's one common thread which runs in opposition and we must face it even if matiangi does not want to listen or hear >> and every other person even emirators the chief justice point is they have said even if they're abusing science or whichever methodology the two guys is Colono and Sifuna now out of that it has to be Cuna then Colono if it goes the other way around it can't work >> meaning Cuna for presidency colono deputizing or colono presidency deport why because of age and experience >> yes and even being senior in him over him in so many things has been in government. They're together in the bar. He's been there longer. Age, experience, diplomatic connections. You know, even to be president, guys, come on. You need to have networks. >> Sifuna said that doesn't really matter because he believes as a president, >> we do not want to experiment. It's 5 years. >> Everything is try and error. >> What government? Let me tell you, >> let me tell you the life and souls of Kenyans >> is in a politician's hands. Tom, President R has never been a president before. He sold us the bottom up >> and we bought it. >> But he has been a minister. So Colono has been he has been a minister. He has been a vice president. Let's just go through the ranks. >> Has been a senator. >> Let's go through the senator. One time senator. >> He has been in politics. He has been groomed by Baba over the years. >> Let's go through the ranks. >> Mhm. >> Let's go through the ranks. >> We need the ranks. >> Yes. For a while. For a [laughter] while. for a while. We cannot afford >> to put somebody who's not betrayed and tested on that one. Let him be deputy president first. We see >> you see what he said. >> If he has to ascend to an office, >> he said that he believes that even the president >> does not know everything. What happens that's where you have experts surrounding you. So he says he's going to consult on people that know every industry because he cannot say that he knows everything which I agree with him on that particular aspect. I don't know if that's a a valid option to remove him from the race. >> Okay. Let me tell you there's something called character. >> Yeah. >> You know you can be smart, you can say the right words or you look good but there are some things in you which will come out later. When I was doing a podcast with Ionini, this discussion came up and I told Ekonini that there's going to be a fallout between Babino >> and Sona because the two were the ones leading Linda Moni or the face of Linda Mon. But I ask one question if Linda Moni like now I saw Sunday is it August 16th they're going to be let's say home >> who determines that >> and whose face is there? Now when you look at the things the way they've been working >> they call they call Orango the party leader they announce him like that sometimes. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> But now as things move the shine is coming away from Babu going to >> Sifuna. >> That clearly will be a problem. >> But they are not trying to aspire for the same seat. >> No. But you see politicians like the shine. >> Yeah. >> Yes. And if the shine comes away from Boowino then it deems the seat he wants to go for. >> Does it? >> Yes it does. >> So you think if Cifuna was to go for presential aspiration and Babu was to go for Nairobi governor. >> Well uh it it may work but uh that would mean that Babu falls in line. Now Sifuna will be commander and chief and sergeant in arms. He'll be telling Babu today we're going that side. >> You saw the other day when Babu was telling that kind of you know that rasmatas which you saw to Baba when you see the mammoth crowd and guys are chanting an organic crowd like the one they have. It's hard to manage your feelings. It's hard to manage what you'll say to them and you'd want to be the one that they sing about. So there issues which are coming up and you you know let me just say one thing >> the current affair today when you said about Gahu Gagushia we don't even know this guy >> we're knowing him for the wrong reasons. I asked the state why do you guys do this now somebody like this a short man come studio I talk he deals with his people those people he wants to check under beneath let's wait and see there was a time they used to say why is the government always reacting and bringing up such characters now you'll find there mandammano in his constituency I don't know what This is a guy once he says those things he's like a wall fly in the wall. But there's only one thing he needs to understand. There's a government in place and there's a police force, police service rather in place. The police cardinal job is to take care of two things, right? Property and life. The minute the police think that you want to snuff that guy's life, they will have to do what they do. That's why they have guns. So why are we reacting to this? How many times are they going to do this? This is selling fear to their own people. This is a message to somebody else so that he does not come and fight him for the nomination of DCP. >> He's trying to smear somebody. These are internal things they're playing there. Those are dangerous games they're playing. >> But there's a lot of blaming is trying to say, "Oh, you see that camo? He's a guy who is leaning towards William R. So we, you know, we can't give him armor. you guys no you do your politics which should be sanitized by now >> let's not bring fear let's not bring confrontation >> and you see ka in terms of bringing fear when we look at the goons situation that has been experienced lately >> it's bringing a lot of insecurity in the country and sometimes they say that's how you know hay started and we can also see police leniency in some occasions whereby we've seen clips online. Goons are getting into breaking into places and the police are probably just walking around and nothing is really being done. What is going on >> now? You know, >> and also there's a lot of blame game because Gashaga says this, the government is planning, the government says Mukmen comes and says Gashagago is planning. So someone is playing with the people's minds here. Now if you look at uh the Jinzi routes there are some policemen who have been arrested and they're standing trial. >> Sam Maria >> Yes. >> There are some who um are fearful for such things. Now when a goon comes here trying to break into that shop, what do you do? Do you use a button to beat him cuz he's going to use stones to beat you? So what do you do in any case the goons come from both sides I believe and the if if um like now we're told our national security from those days of uh the first president uh Kinata has always been one of the sharpest intelligence gatherers. >> They know who brings the good where. They know who does what. Even when goons are assembling, >> they're assembling during the day. Even if they're somewhere being called, there's somebody calling them. And did you see the other newspaper the other day? It is the women who coordinate. >> Yeah. >> If you want to get the goons, you can. Government. So don't give us stories. If you feel you want to get the goons, Murmen and the NS boss, they know where there. So when those gangons are coming and trying to get into town whether it's opposition or what even the ones who are in it was a very ugly scene but they walking the streets you know on broad daylight on a Sunday >> God's day >> no government should own up you know how to deal with goonism just deal with it spares The rhetoric spares deal with the goons before people die. >> Yeah. >> Deals with the goons before it goes out of >> control because clearly >> Yes. >> All right. So before we end, what's your plan? You vied for Langata MP in 2022. Do you still have interest in representing anyone? >> Langat is choker block there. I don't know what the Somali are doing there. We have like 20 Somali there >> and apartments are coming up really fast. >> We don't want that. We do not want that. >> Me all I'm saying is >> that why Jalangu is vying for the senator and not Jalango. >> Those are the guys. Yeah, but you know it's not easy. >> And you know I've been trying to get to the president. Of course. >> Yeah. Oh, you look like him. >> Really? >> Have you been told that? >> By who? >> No one has told you. >> Is he? Do you think he's lying? He has been told that. Is he your brother? >> One or two people. He can't be my brother. You see there? I'm struggling like this even to help him. >> We We would never know >> to get to him. >> We would never know to get to him. We might be posing. >> We might have to sit together like this and we see and maybe you you never know. Do you know I'm Lu but have linage from Wanga? >> You never know. My father came from Wanga Wanga. William talk to those areas you know these things those >> you never know. >> I'm telling you. >> Yeah. >> But it would be good to meet him one of these days because I've supported him many times. But his guys around him Ningumu. But anyway like I was told Let me know on the comment section if you think he looks like the president. >> Yeah, maybe. But let me not say too much. My brother told me too big connections. Hey, >> you know there are some guys who block because they know. Yeah. And we want to be people who the last thing I I probably want to say >> somebody like me who's not vying, I'd be an asset to the president in terms of his campaigns because I will not be shackled. >> Okay. All right, Tom. I don't have much to say to you. Um I believe we've covered all this. You've shared your insights. Let's get to see what the people think as well. if they share the same sentiments as you or not. >> Yeah. Yeah. We're in a democratic space. That's what we do. The only thing I'll say is >> let's enjoy this. It should be banter. You remember those days of Shakazulu before he came. Guys used to dance as well. Let's do that. Don't kill anyone. >> One thing you'll do, you will go with the mob psychology. Somebody dies, you find your things not working. So goism >> there. I agree. All right. That was it from the show right here with entrepreneur or businessman and political not analyst but politician. Clearly he was analyzing what he understands you know with everything that is going on but that was Tom ai right here. Thank you for watching. My name is Miss Betty Keni.