What It Actually Feels Like to Live with Bipolar Disorder - Arlyn Kauffman

It's so real and it's so true that it doesn't really bother you or didn't bother me. It didn't I didn't sit there and think, "Oh, my life is coming to an end as I know it." You know, this is terrible. I'm losing my mind. No, it's not like that. the things that I was thinking seemed real >> and seemed like I just need to get everyone else up to speed with with what I am thinking because they don't know and they need to know. Well, [music] Harlon, as you look back across your life, when did you start seeing patterns that something was a little different for you? >> Yeah, that's a good question. So at the time I wouldn't have thought about it so much but looking back I think around the time I was 12 or 13 um I did begin to experience some some bouts with depression. There were certain things that bothered me that made me sad. not serious things just like maybe this part of the farm wasn't very tidy or this or that just didn't seem to be quite right material things usually and it made me sad and so I would didn't didn't really have a way to process that. Uh I would I would spend time alone and and and just uh you know I would go down to the pond and fish by myself sometimes and think through these things. Mh. >> So that's kind of the earliest. Before that I had very uh very happy childhood uh a stable family and and just just a lot of very good experiences, good friends. I was a happy person. Uh pictures from my childhood, you know, almost always will show me with a a big smile. So anyway, from from 13 on then, uh, some of those patterns started to come in and I didn't think about them as being abnormal at the time. I just thought, well, this is this is how life is. Uh, sometimes when I was 14, I had a time where in I was in ninth grade and I had a very I I went through a period of time was very difficult to study. It just kind of hit me all at once and I couldn't focus >> and it was it was totally unusual for me. School had always come easily and being able to to focus on study and reading and comprehending what I was reading and you know writing back down you know answers in detail of what I'd read. That was that was natural for me. And and all at once I couldn't I couldn't focus. I couldn't think clearly. I would sit down and try to do my work. It would take me, you know, easily twice as long. >> And the quality of my work just wasn't wasn't as good. I had to read and reread and reread. It seemed I could read a whole page and then not really have comprehended it. And if like my my brain wasn't it wasn't processing the information in the same way that I had been used to. And that was that was kind of scary or it was disorienting for me. >> Uh and that went on for for several months and I kind of struggled through that. >> Uh and then kind of got better. >> So like it just that just kind of faded away and you were back to what you would have considered normal then. It just kind of >> Yeah, it it faded away over over a period of several months and and things kind of went on like they had been. >> Must have been a little disorienting where it's just, oh, something's a little something changed and then oh, okay, now we're back to what you were used to, if you know what I mean. Right. >> Yes. Right. And it was kind of a a big thing at at the time, but then it it faded away and and soon kind of out of my memory. >> Uh and then when I was 17, we went on a western trip and I just remember I slept most of the time during the day while we were traveling. I was I just felt tired a lot. And when we would get somewhere and take a hike or go look at something, then I would get up and go do it and I felt pretty decent. >> But get back in the motor home and and and go on and I would just fall asleep even if it was nice scenery and and so on. And that was I think the first time my parents kind of remarked that you know what something seems a little unusual or or off about that. And but I I think it had come kind of gradually and that kind of fatigue Yeah. had had kind of come on gradually and and it didn't seem terrible to me. It just seemed well this is kind of how life was. I don't remember feeling sad or depressed. I was just tired uh a lot without >> physically like in your body or like brain tired if you if you know >> more more more in my body or like >> Yeah. >> just just didn't feel energetic. >> Yeah. >> Or like really I would go along with the things that my family was doing and enjoy them, >> but I wouldn't have been sitting up saying, "Oh, hey, let's stop here or let's do this." >> Yeah. just kind of a little bit numb and along for the ride. >> Did that last for a while? That feeling of the tiredness and lack of energy, I guess you could call it. >> I would say that that that did last for a while. Back home then, when when I was working working on the farm, I worked with my uncles >> uh quite a bit on the farm. As long as I kept moving, it wasn't too noticeable. Uh but but kind of from from then on throughout my life I could fall asleep very easily. >> Yeah. Even up up to this day it's very difficult for me to get through a Sunday morning or even uh any kind of a meeting without dozing off momentarily. >> Uh unless I'm in a a more an elevated side of the of the bipolar. Yeah. How did your how did your family and friends and so forth um respond to this? You said your parents started noticing right on that trip. >> Mhm. So, it wasn't it wasn't a big concern to me at that point and I don't think it was a big concern to them. >> Uh but but they they did notice. But it wasn't until I was 18 that I got a formal diagnosis of bipolar disorder. Well, back at that time they call it manic depressive disorder. And then they they upgraded the >> the um the lingo, I guess, to bipolar disorder. >> That's what they call it now. [clears throat] Uh that happened when I was at Bible school in Arkansas. And I began to feel like I didn't need much sleep. And I would I would stay up late studying and I would get up early and study or do things. Maybe I would go go out running. >> It just felt like sleep was was kind of a waste of time. >> That's a 180 though of what you've been describing about needing lots of sleep before that. Okay. >> Yeah. And that's where the bipolar disorder diagnosis comes in because >> with bipolar you have you have these >> these periods of of high where you feel energetic, motivated, um powerful and like why would you bother sleeping when you could be doing these things? and then >> and then it goes down on the low side where it's the exact opposite. That's why it's called bipolar. Uh but I had I had a manic or a high episode there. So it went from feeling like I didn't need sleep to being very talkative and then I began to say things that were delusional. Uh, so I had ideas about Bible prophecies and I was trying to make connections with current events >> and I started to say these things which seemed totally logical to me. But the people around me soon recognized that this this was not logical and something something had gone arry. Something was going ary. And so eventually they agreed with with the staff and my my uh my parents were actually there. My dad was a teacher during that term. They agreed that I should be taken in for an evaluation. And so somehow they persuaded me to to go into the local hospital where there there was not a psychiatrist there but the local family practitioner, the medical doctor, he listened to what I had to say and then he said he gave me the diagnosis of manic depressive disorder which has been confirmed by by numbers of of doctors since then, especially psychiatrists. Medical doctors typically will not offer that diagnosis because that's that's out maybe a little outside of of their training. But >> he felt confident enough about about it that he was willing to go ahead and give that diagnosis and then prescribe the medication that he felt that I needed. So he he was prescribed lithium which is commonly used for for patients with bipolar disorder. And we went back to the Bible school and I refused to take the medication. >> And this is all during the the usual Bible school term. >> That's right. Mhm. >> That >> things are going on. Ooh, that must have felt very what odd or something to be like the staff are pulling you aside and your family is like, "Hey, let's we should go to the hospital." Basically, >> right? Like how did you handle that? I mean, you agreed to do it, but >> yes. So, you c only people who who have experienced a high like this will will really be able to understand this. But it it's so real and it's so true that it doesn't really bother you or didn't bother me. It didn't I didn't sit there and think, "Oh, my life is coming to an end as I know it. You know, this is terrible. I'm losing my mind." No, it's not like that. the things that I was thinking seemed real >> and seemed like I just need to get everyone else up to speed with with what I am thinking because they don't know and they need to know. So I had at that time Al Gore was vice president and I had this idea that because of of the messages that God was giving me that needed to get out there then he was opposing that he was going to come after me and and try to get get rid of me. And so when we came out of the clinic with with that uh prescription, I was having a I saw a person going into the pharmacy and I knew that that was someone who he had sent to to put poison in place of those pills that I was about to pick up. And that's why. >> And so when we get back to the Bible school, I said, "Well, I could take these pills, but if I do, I'm dead because of this, this, and this," which was totally clear in my mind, but of course recognized as delusional >> uh by by the people around me. >> But then why did you agree to go to the clinic to begin with? How did they convince you to do that? If you know what I mean, to go get the diagnosis and and so >> I don't remember wrestling with with that. I just thought, well, this is part of that's part of what I'm going to have to go through to >> for this for this whatever this process. This is part of the the martyr's journey or whatever. >> That that makes a little more sense then because it's like you're sure you're right. And so it's kind of like, okay, I know I'm right. These people want me to do this. I guess I'll go along with it, but just kind of maybe to humor them or something >> eventually. Why they'll get the drift? >> Yeah. >> So, you did so you go you get the diagnosis, you get the medication. Two questions with that. Then, how does your family respond to the diagnosis? And then if you didn't take the medication, then what? >> That's right. So it was it was far more difficult for my parents than it was for me >> because I was essentially on a trip. Uh the the way I felt and my thought processes are are similar to what I I hear or read of people describing as you know an episode they might get from a from a drug. >> The mind is sharp. it's uh it's fast or or you know thoughts are just tumbling through one after another and there's not there's there's everything you think seems real. It's kind of like I lost my ability to discern reality from uh from from a thought. And so that that wasn't it didn't feel terrible to me because it's it's a trip. >> That's right. >> But for my parents, it was was very difficult for them to know what to do and you know what is happening to our son and and how do we how do we help him? Uh what's going on here? So, they couldn't get me to take the pills. And later on, that same I can't remember the timeline. Was it early the next day or within 24 hours? Anyway, I was back to the clinic. And so, they they managed to >> persuade me to to go back to the talk to the doctor. And this time they loaded up six of the biggest guys of the school term. Six of the biggest students and they were they were prepared to for me to be hospitalized if if necessary >> really >> until I would take these pills. So your your parents were seeing this as a pretty serious >> Yeah. It was it was unlike anything they'd ever seen before. Yeah. >> In in me. >> Uh very offthe-wall. >> That strikes me as a really good thing that they were there at the Bible school because they would have been able to see, >> wait, this isn't you. Like something is very wrong here, >> you know? I think, >> oh man, that must have been hard for them though. >> I think it having them there helped to just keep that process going that we need we need to get Arland some help. >> Yeah. >> Sooner rather than later. >> Well, that must have been tough though for >> Yes. I can I can only imagine. Uh it was >> So, so you go in a vehicle with six of the biggest guys. Did did you know that that surely they that you didn't know that their plan was like we're going to hospitalize you if if it comes to that if if we have to do that. >> It seems like maybe I kind of caught on but then again I don't know. It didn't really bother me. It was just like well let's see what happens. Um >> okay >> this is all going to work out because these thoughts that I'm having are are true thoughts. So >> So what what didn't happen? >> So we got there and we went back in to see the doctor. same doctor and and I sat down and I explained to him my hallucination with, you know, with seeing the person that I thought poisoned the pills and and so on. And he just asked questions and let me talk and and he just kept saying, "I think I think you should go ahead and take these pills. I think you'll be okay." And eventually I did. Right there. I took the first dose and they put me on a double or triple dose of of lithium for the first 24 hours. I think >> you say lithium. >> Lithium. >> Is that like the lithium that's in the battery of a smartphone or something? Like it's an element element lithium. It's very inexpensive. Uh it's very commonly used for for bipolar patients. It's a mood stabilizer. It's not an anti-depressant, but it's a mood stabilizer. So, if you're in a low, it helps to moderate you up a little bit, and if you're on a high, it helps to >> reduce that. So, >> so the psychotic thoughts um began to blur like my clarity once I began to take those then I started to get some confusion >> in my thoughts. And now these things that I imagined to be true no longer quite lined up anymore. >> Oh, did that okay? I've never thought of this, but like if Yeah. If you're riding this big high and these things are totally certain in your mind and you take the that pill, that medication, and it kind of evens it out, maybe low lower, I don't know if I'm sure I'm not using the right words here, but kind of lower Yeah. lowers it or whatever. Then suddenly these things that you were sure were bedrock reality are like I'm not sure if they're true. And so did it feel like reality just kind of fracturing around you? Like you're not sure what's real? Like am I tracking with you correctly? Is that kind of how this works >> as far as my energy level and my my mental clarity? It kind of went together. uh right >> during the time when I was on the high. I had a tremendous amount of energy and and ability to play. Volleyball was one of the games we played there. And I could I could just kill it in ways that I could never before or after. And one of the first things I noticed when they put me on lithium was, >> "Oh, I can't I can't jump as high anymore. And I can't >> really >> I can't uh I just can't get it together to >> to nail it like I had been. >> So this affects not just how your mind is perceiving thoughts and saying this thing is real. It's not just changing that it this is having effects on your energy. >> It does >> like your actual physical energy and abilities. >> I didn't know that. >> Yes. Which is which is mysterious, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> bipolar is is essentially a neurotransmitter dysfunction. So, so the the chemicals that that regulate the the flow of uh of nerve impulses. >> Mhm. >> Those are there's a there are a number of them. And if those aren't in the right balance, you know, in in our bodies, in our nervous system, then then we don't we don't function well. And that can result in a >> in a high or or a low. >> But it actually affecting not just how the mind perceives information, etc., but like how your body functions too. that that that's new to me. >> Yeah. So the brain I mean the nervous system isn't limited to just the brain but but nerve >> nerves are throughout our body. And so >> uh when when the neurotransmitters are are really working or maybe overworking then then the muscle movement and so on is is just very um intense. and >> clarified like >> if I if I would get on a high, I would want to go jogging. >> It's like you have to burn this energy out. It's got to be expended or something. >> Yeah. And if I'm in a low, then that is the last thing I want to do. It's just like, oh, that is so much work. I do not. Why would I spend any of the little energy that I do have >> going on a run? >> This sounds like it could be at least the high that you're describing could be pretty hard on the body actually. >> Is that true? >> It is. It cannot be sustained. M >> so so people with with extreme bipolar which you know I I've I've had uh I've I've dealt with this now for for more than half of my life since my late teens and I'm in my middle upper middle to upper 40s. I have had a number of of cycles up and down. But people some of the some some people that have experienced it with more [clears throat] severe symptoms, they might they might have six months where they hardly sleep at all and they just work and knock out mountains of work and then maybe hardly show up for another six months or more while their body recovers. Oh, >> and so uh >> the the body cannot sustain uh the kind of activity mentally or physically that that a high brings. And so there there's then this this decline into into the low side or the depressive side. And that >> it seems like if if the high the higher the high was, the lower and longer the low will be. I think as as time goes on, I experience it seems like I experience shorter highs and and longer lows. Uh but only only time will tell. I don't know how it will play out, but most people that have had a bipolar diagnosis will will tend to struggle more with the low. But people see what they see mostly is the high reoccurring. The low is is much less obvious to to the people around them. >> So yeah, like coming into this interview, I knew absolutely nothing about bipolar at all. So this is all news to me. Um, so one of my next questions then out like from what you're describing, this time at Bible school, you're on a high, you start taking those pills, the medication, does that put you into a low? Does that put you into an average of the two? Do were you able to stay at Bible school, finish out the term? Like, how did it affect your life? Like again, I'm just trying to imagine this happening at a term of Bible school because like now everybody knows and it would be like this. It would feel strange. It had to be tough on your family like >> Yeah. What a what an interesting experience just kind of how that all kind of came together, you know, for you. >> Yes. So, it did not put me into a low quickly. Uh it stabilized me so that I could finish the term, you know, I finished my studies, took the tests and and went home. I would say finished fairly average and then went back to work on the farm and then as as spring gave way to summer then I went into a low which was my body trying to recover from from what >> I had spent all the all that I had taken out of the bank >> or that yeah a lot of times that's the way I think of it if If I if I spend down those resources of whatever that is >> in in my physical body, >> then then it's going to be I'll feel bankrupted at at some point. And so then I went into very severe depression that summer to where it was it was difficult to to keep working. But my parents encouraged me to to try to keep my routines, which was which was very good that they did. uh they encouraged me to keep my routines and and I did stay on the lithium then for for a couple of years. >> So you're on it over that time while you're having this slow. >> Yeah, they they they put me back on a on a normal dose. I don't remember what the milligrams were, but >> more of a normal dose then after about six days >> to kind of once I was down off of that extreme high, then went on a >> normal dose then after that. >> So tell me about the low. So you were telling here's what it was like during the high, you come home the low. What was that like? >> Yeah. So that's I think I want to take some time here to try to explain or or just talk about the contrast so that >> yes >> so the people >> uh kind of get a sense of of what it what it might feel like or or be like >> uh to to experience it. So uh in in a high or or even regular for me what whatever normal is uh especially as the way I remembered it before my diagnosis uh I I would be glad for challenges. I would enjoy uh embracing opportunities that that might seem pretty big. Whereas in a in a low then any little thing can feel overwhelming and decision making is is very difficult. It it just seems like my mind doesn't it doesn't want to make decisions. It wants to avoid decision making. It it's just It's it's hard to describe as contrasted to to a high where decision- making is just snap snap snap. It's just it comes and you might not make good decisions, but they're easy to make. You don't you don't feel this, oh, I don't know if I should do this. It's just it just comes. So like when it's hard to make the decision, is that do you feel that as a sense of this takes too much energy to make this decision so I'll just procrastinate? Is it kind of like that? >> It often results in procrastination to where it it's so easy to just avoid >> big decisions or even little decisions and and hope that if I just wait maybe I won't have to make them. uh which you know doesn't make any sense when when I'm on a high. I think well that is dumb to put off decisions. You just make them and and you go. Um another thing would be buying and spending. So on a high uh I I tend to to spend or or make financial decisions that that involve putting money out there. And when I'm in a low, then I don't want to spend money. I don't want to take any risks. Let's just keep keep everything kind of as it is. Uh so that that's a common thing for people that struggle with bipolar uh spending sprees. tend to go with the high side, you know, not being careful about >> where the money's going. When I feel well, then I'm glad that I'm self-employed. And there's a lot of decision making needs to be done. If you're self-employed uh and we we have a farm which which involves, you know, daily decisions and and seasonal decisions related to crops and and so on. It's it's normal. It's uh takes a lot of decision- making. When I feel great, then that feels like a great fit and I'm glad that I'm doing that. When I don't feel well, then I wish I would be in a job where I would just go somewhere and they would tell me what to do and I would do those tasks and then I would go home and I wouldn't have to think about it because that decision making would be on someone else and not on me. So there's that there's that contrast which which can make identity around work and you know what should I be doing with my life it can make that difficult because >> you know one year I might be thriving as a farmer and the next I might I don't why in the world am I doing this and it may or may not have anything to do with whether it's succeeding financially. It's that's not really the what drives the the feelings about it. It's it's the way my brain is processing. A couple of other areas. Uh I already mentioned sleep, but when when I feel great, it's not unusual for me to wake up at 4 in the morning and want to get up. I might know that I should stay in bed and go back to sleep, but I would have to discipline myself to stay in bed >> because I know that would be better for my body. >> Uh when I'm in a low, then waking up is the worst the worst thing in my day. I just wish I didn't have to wake up. I could just because there are going to be decisions that have to be made. there are things to face and it's just I would rather avoid that. So the contrast there is something that is just very stark and when when I'm when I'm in a high uh I think well I will never want to to sleep long again. I mean, that's so silly to want to stay in bed when I could be up doing something uh whether it's writing email or organizing things or working on a project. So, it's just it's just interesting how how both of those realities can be [snorts] >> so, yes, for lack of better words, so real uh in in the same person, but not at the same time, but over time it switches from one to the other. >> How long is the switch? >> That's a good question. So, it varies in people. Uh for me I would say it's it's usually months like maybe three to six months. >> Oh, okay. So this isn't something that happens in a couple of days or whatever. >> Not usually for me. >> Yeah. >> Once in a while I'll go from a low to a high pretty quickly. Like I'll wake up one morning and I'll feel adrenaline and I'll feel like I want to get up and I know that something has changed. >> U sometimes that's pretty pretty fast, but usually it's more gradual. >> For some people with bipolar, it's often very fast, but but not not so much with me. if it would happen quick that man that would be rough when I'm thinking even on your body too like that switch seems like it'd be pretty hard on you you know >> yes for for for you for sure and then of course even more so for the people that live with you wait >> so Sue will say sometimes >> you know and and Sue is is such a blessing in my journey has been such a blessing >> she will say sometimes times. Well, she has to readjust because now I'm not the same as I was, you know, three weeks ago. Who Oh, yeah. She has to >> kind of reorient that I'm going to be this way now for for maybe several months. Uh so that >> that can be difficult for her. Uh, it takes a special person to live with someone that that deals with bipolar. >> I hadn't even thought of that angle yet. You know, that all the people in your life having to adjust to those, I don't know, rhythms, patterns, changes. >> Yes. You know, >> in some in many ways, the the low is the most difficult for me. Uh but the high is the most difficult for the people around me. >> Okay. Tell me more. >> So with the low, I'll be predictable. Uh I'm not Sue wouldn't have to worry about me going out and making an investment or spending money. >> Uh >> okay. Yeah. >> And and I'll I'll probably just stick around home. I'll show up at normal times and maybe I won't be talkative, but >> but I won't be hard to live with. Whereas the the high, you know, the unpredictability of that maybe overexited, um kind of kind of rootless, um >> shifty. Uh some of those things are what makes the high more difficult and you know conversations for me when I'm when I'm on a high conversation is comes easier because I have lots of thoughts. Just for example, coming to this convention once a year as part of Anabaptist perspectives. >> Mhm. If if I'm on a little bit of a high, I will have to work very hard to restrain myself from from dominating the conversation because I will constantly be having thoughts that I think are worthy of being heard and they may or may not be. >> Yeah. If I'm in a low, then I'll wonder, well, why am I even here? >> Like, I don't belong on this board. I don't even have anything to say. >> And I'll sit here and try to think, well, is there something I could say that would be helpful? And it'll be just feeling like work. And then I might doze off. >> You know, what good is a board member that sleeps through a third of the meeting? I mean, this is silly. Mhm. >> So, so those those two realities can that's how it would maybe play out in in this sort of a setting. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I love when I'm when I'm on a high or feeling good, I love to do things. I love to work. I love to play. I love to go here and go there. Um it's it's like I'm getting neur what they call neuro feedback. when we when we do things and we feel enjoyment from them, we want to do them more. And that is that is the way that we were designed. Uh but it's like I get maybe too much of that. >> And so >> the dial has been turned up almost like the sensory dial. >> Yes. Somehow. And so I love to work and I want to work more. I love to play and do things. I want to do more. Well, it should be >> just calm down and and live >> um faithfully with with your wife and family. >> In contrast to that, then when I'm in a in depression, in a low, I get almost no neuro feedback. So I can go do something which I used to really enjoy >> and I just do it and I it just feels I don't really feel anything. I don't really enjoy it. I just did it. >> And you don't think about how much that neuro feedback actually works or is motivating until that's stripped away. Mhm. >> Uh we get neuro feedback from from working, from playing, from being with people, uh from prayers, uh just a lot of different areas of our life. And when that is taken away, it it can make it difficult to want to live. >> It's like that like that sensory dial, but instead dialed all the way up, it's like dialed way >> way back, you know? So whether that's serotonin or >> GABA or some of the other neurotransmitters, you know, that's still fairly mysterious even even to the best scientists >> exactly why this is happening. But it the reality is it's not it's not there in the same way we were used to. you you've had this for enough time may maybe in a way you you can kind of recognize it and so forth but like it's got to feel disorienting I would think every time right because it's like this was who I was >> and now few weeks few months later it's like it's now flipped and then again and then it just kind of keeps happening >> is is that the right word disorienting or confusing or just like oh boy here it comes again like yeah what what's that part Like I think the the word that comes to my mind or or the the thought of of identity or who am I becomes more difficult because if if if God created me this one way then then I should pursue vocation and and things kind of around that. But if but if it's this other way where I hardly have energy to make decisions then then it wouldn't be good for me to to make commitments that that require a lot of you know emotional energy. Something like teaching school. while I taught school for nine years and that was good for me to do that, but there were there were times when it just I just didn't felt like I didn't have enough emotional energy to go on >> and and to be able to to keep going on without kind of putting that on the students or >> or causing them to suffer with me, you know, could could be very difficult. So yeah, I don't know if disorienting is the is the right word, but maybe maybe it is. It it can be can be difficult to know, well, who am I really? >> Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Because it would feel like it's a moving target almost, you know? So, and and we'll get we'll get to to more of this in a bit, but but I have to come back to the the reality that the core of who I am is I I am a child of God. and and my feelings the the way my brain is functioning uh whether it feels great or whether it feels terrible is is not what is not the core of what defines me as a person and that no matter how I feel we can by God's grace we can press on we can take the next little up [clears throat] >> and you mentioned teaching school in there just from what you're describing. I can imagine that was challenging at points and I I I can't imagine having to teach school with with the dynamics that you've been describing, right? That must have been very hard at times. But then you also just said how, you know, having the perseverance to just take that next small step. Was that kind of what it was like for you for those nine years? You know, I didn't have a lot of times when when it just felt like daily survival. I just could hardly make it through the day. >> It seemed like I had grace for those years. And for a lot of them, I I think I felt fairly normal, but but there were there were times when it became very difficult. And that's that's probably why I'm not in the classroom right now. Uh it's a it's a challenging question. I I would I would hope to to re-engage with that at some point. the the desire the desire to teach and and to pass on something that is in my heart and mind to someone else is is a is something that I think I was born with >> and and right now it feels like that's kind of idled but yet it's still there but in order for for that to flourish it takes there's there's a desire to to teach and and to pass something good on to another person, but that takes emotional energy. And so I might have the desire >> I I want to give someone else what I feel or what I think, but I lack the emotional energy >> to carry that out. And so it can make it more likely that I will say no to things like teaching opportunities. >> I'm 48. That's old and that's not old. So I don't know what I don't know what will be in store yet. Uh God can still bring that back to life if he if he if he wants to. Uh I want to be open to that. But that that feels like a part of me that is not thriving. >> Another way that I describe the the difference between the high and the low. The high is kind of like attending your own graduation day after day. A graduation is when you you kind of sense you have this sense of accomplishment >> and then you look forward and you think, "Wow, there's going to be great things ahead." Uh it's kind of like the possibilities are wide open. That's what a high feels like. Uh or as Alo kind of feels like attending your own funeral because the the the way that you experience life, the the the joys that come from just living, working, and playing, and being with people just kind of are gone. >> And it's like I'm this shell kind of walking around going through the motions, but Who am I? I'm not. The real me isn't there. And that sounds a little morbid. Um, but I know that >> some people I I've I've listened to some people describe grief around losing a person that was very close to them and those feelings of grief and how it affects them emotionally and and and physically and so on. I can I can relate to that as it in in in my own experience. Not that I have never lost someone through death very close to me, but it kind of feels that same way. >> Wow. >> With with well, where where did the Arland go that I used to know? >> Is he ever going to come back? And and those kinds of of feelings. So to go back a bit when the diagnosis happens and kind of beginning the the journey as as you were describing there earlier, how did your church community respond to this and like like for example, it seems like it could be easy to turn something like this. Well, this is a spiritual problem or maybe you know mental health things can be maybe a little hush- husher, you know what I mean? like and there's maybe a bit of a taboo around some of this stuff depending on where you go of course I know there's a lot of variety in how people respond to these things but in your experience >> what happened next for the people around you for your community. >> Yeah that's that's a good question. I feel like uh I cannot I cannot think of any any times when I felt judged or >> uh you know sidelined. Uh I feel like my community was was trying to to understand. I think it was since the main episode happened away from my home community. I think it was maybe hard for some some of the local people to really understand how how lifealtering that was for me and and for my family. and and maybe maybe they would just kind of hope that it would go away, not not being able to to comprehend and and empathize. But but that's that's normal. It it's kind of like for me, like I said, I I haven't experienced the loss of a person very close to me. And so, I don't really know what to say to someone who is going through that. And and I wish I could do something to help them, but I can't really think of anything. And so, I might just not talk to them about it. And maybe that's kind of the way it was for me. Uh I didn't feel I didn't feel judged. I think most people just hoped that would would take care of itself. Uh as far as yeah, how the church uh should look at it or or what does the church is it a spiritual issue? You know, some some groups it seems like kind of air on the side of it's it's just all a spiritual problem. >> Yeah. >> And then others, well, it you you need to get a psychiatrist to to fix you or a therapist. >> Um and and I don't I don't know the answer. I I doubt that there's any such thing as a correct or perfected official position for a church to take on mental health. Uh it's just it's so nuanced. Um, and is it a physical or a spiritual problem? The answer is yes. It has physical and spiritual um components and and it's really difficult to separate those. I'm not sure how much we should try to separate those. So maybe it's God's way of of helping me learn uh not to be narcissistic. uh to be maybe a spiritual thing for me to learn was humility and compassion. You know, if if I had for all my life had just felt very good mentally, >> then how would I empathize with people that can hardly get out of bed or that don't feel motivated or that feel very sad about things and I just wouldn't get it. So, in a sense, it's a it's a spiritual it's an opportunity for me to grow spiritually. I once heard a preacher say that bipolar is a it's a it's a generational sin. And I thought, well, I don't know. That's that's kind of a stretch. Um maybe it is. Uh I didn't really feel offended by that, but I don't you know, so far we we haven't identified that. Uh but at the same time, um I'm always open. And I want to be open to whatever God wants to do. There is there is always spiritual growth for Arlin to to be called to to uh to accept and and to embrace. And if if a bipolar diagnosis includes Yeah. should include spiritual growth. Uh it it's not just a spiritual problem. Uh neurotransmitters not functioning correctly. It it it is a physical problem, >> but it's it's not only a physical problem. >> So where would your faith be in all of this? like how does the um the spiritual or or what you believe intersect with the topic of mental health in your specific case? >> You know, I think that's that's one of the most important questions. Uh except for faith, I I wouldn't be here. I mean, I wouldn't be here having this conversation with you. Uh but I don't know if I would even be alive. Severe mental health sometimes results in suicide. And there have been times there have been multiple times when I when I would much rather have been dead than been alive. Um, I can remember times when, you know, driving down the road and just wishing, you know, a truck would hit me so that I could just be done with life. But somehow faith that that God God is real, God is good and and he is bigger than these these feelings that I'm having and he will make a way. Um that faith that was I would say exemplified by my parents by my church community. I think the biggest contribution of my church community and my family is simply faith. Faith in God and and knowing and believing and trusting in him when when I cannot make sense of it, when it doesn't feel right, [clears throat] >> but still clinging to God in faith. And Jesus to me is is a rock. He's an anchor. He's the one that keeps my soul safe when when when I don't feel the way that I think people should feel or that feels right or good. Another part of of the faith journey has been like I mentioned earlier seeing God working in my heart to develop compassion and empathy. Uh like some somebody said, empathy has an expiration date and and it is I'm I'm surprised how quickly I can forget how it feels when I when I go back onto a maybe normal or or a little higher than normal. Uh but it's it's good for me. It's it's humbling and it helps me get in line with with the reality of what God sees and feels to to have to walk through some of the difficult lows and and has helped me become I have a long ways to go but but people that are close to me will acknowledge this also that it has helped me to become an empathetic more of an empathetic person and I want to keep growing in that and but I do I do see how God has used this uh to grow that that compassion and empathy in my soul. So this is a still a current thing for you. Like are you still it is >> seeking for help looking for options? Like I mean what what does that look like for you like today? >> Yes. So, I I always keep uh a bottle of lithium on hand [clears throat] >> and especially for for the highs and I will I will use that mostly according to to Sue's direction or encouragement. I would not like to be dependent [clears throat] on lithium, but it it does still work. It does still stabilize my mood. If I'm really low, it'll help bring me up a little. If I'm really high, it will help bring me down a little. So, it's there in the toolbox. Uh >> I have there are a number of things that I have done over the years and most of these at the direction or encouragement of others. >> So, those of us with bipolar disorder are not great at self-treating. So, we we have to learn to to listen. But we've we've done things like hair analysis, blood analysis, um you know, the traditional psychiatry. Uh but my psychiatrist admitted that, you know, she really does not have a cure for me. She's not even allowed to to prescribe an anti-depressant because I am at risk for the high which an anti-depressant can bring on. >> Oh yeah. So, I've never taken an anti-depressant even when I'm very low. It would be >> too risky. >> It would too too risky. Yeah. >> I didn't think of that. Yeah. So, you that that kind of limits some some options there for sure. You know, >> uh diet, you know, working with working with it through diet is is important. Eat good proteins, uh meat and eggs, and then a good uh veg based proteins as well. I eat a lot of beans >> and beans are good for the brain. >> Is some of that like when we're looking at the nutrition route trying to find things that Yeah. are good for the brain like keeping the brain strong and healthy. >> Yes. >> Is that the idea? >> The idea for the nervous system in general, the brain in particular and this isn't again this isn't rocket scientists almost. >> Yeah. A lot of doctors will agree on this. some of the the lowhanging fruit. It's It's not It's It's hard because It's hard because it's it's not easy, right? Uh uh >> Oh, man. >> So much you have to alter what's normal or what's normal in our in our culture. >> Yeah. >> Uh as far as food goes, but it's not >> it's not mysterious that that it that it does help. M >> uh >> we haven't found it to be a cure, but it it does help. >> Uh I've also pursued functional medicine, which is, you know, doctors that try to get to the root of things rather than just prescribing something that takes care of the symptoms. >> Yeah. >> Um and I'm currently on a thyroid medication, um which we thought was was having was helping some. I think it does help some. I don't I don't think it'll end up being a cure. >> Um but you know, some help is better than than nothing. Um also take niacin or vitamin B3. That's an anti-inflammatory. Uh and it's an over-the-counter vitamin that that does seem to have a positive effect on the brain >> uh over time. And then I also have taken testosterone supplements. Uh and now I'm on a on a supplement that is supposed to to help with testosterone levels. So horm essentially hormone therapy through >> through vitamins. So those are some of the things and and I am I'm willing and and open to other uh interventions. Uh I don't know if if I'll ever be well I do know one day I will be cured >> when we when we receive a new body. Uh that will be that will be a a special a very special thing uh for me. >> Yeah. And and I think that's the piece that struck me with this story is we're kind of dialoguing back and forth about this interview beforehand. Mhm. >> Often with these interviews, you know, I'm looking for the part of the story where we're like, and then I got better or then everything was fixed and that's the, you know, yay, everything's good now. Your story isn't that. >> And the part about that that intrigues me though is still your um your patience, your faithfulness, and like you kind of mentioned earlier that at least can take that next step even if it's small. >> Talk to me about that though. I'm sure that's not always easy. Um, and especially the fact that like you just said, you haven't been cured yet. You haven't found a magic solution, >> etc. >> Talk to me about that. >> Yes. Uh, that is that is part of the journey where where faith I think makes such a a big difference. So with the the mental illness, I it's good for me, it's good for us to remember that that that never having a diagnos diagnosis of a mental illness never excuses or makes sinful actions or behaviors acceptable. Uh, and it would be it would be terrible if the church would say, "Well, okay, Arlland's doing this or that." But, you know, it's because he has bipolar and and not hold him accountable. And and I'm glad that >> that I don't I don't have people around me that excuse or or that would excuse anything. uh you know when when I don't feel like getting up it is still good to remember that laziness is not going to bring is is is not going to help is not going to be the answer. Uh, and and sometimes I need I need people to to encourage me in that. It it can be it can be hard to get up and and and press forward. Some sometimes when when I'm, you know, working, doing my chores or or getting ready to go do something, I just I I find myself praying like over and over. God, help me to be faithful. Help me to do the next thing. I don't feel like doing this, but I'm going to trust you and I'm going to keep going anyway. that that confidence that that God is near and he can help me to go on uh even when I feel so weak and small. I don't I don't think that would be possible without faith. I don't I don't know how it would be. So, so a lot is really just sticking with the the things that that I have have been taught and have known as, you know, through through God's work and and and pressing on in that, not knowing what the outcome is going to be or whether whether I'm going to struggle more or less for the rest of my life. I don't know. But but there God knows and and he he can make a way and and and he will. And if if it's my lot to continue to suffer uh in this way, you know, we're promised that in this life we will have trouble. uh and and if this is the suffering that that I am called to so that the work of God, the name of God can be lifted up, um then I want to walk in this in faithfulness. If if tomorrow he sends a a cure or maybe maybe someone listening to this will say, "Oh, this is what Arla needs." and they'll contact me and and I'll do that and and then I'll be better if if God wants it to be that way then I'm willing and uh I'll be glad for that as well. >> What would you say to someone who's listening to this who might be quietly struggling with something like this? um and maybe they're scared or ashamed and they're not telling anyone. What would you say to someone like that? I think that it is good for us to to talk about these things to each other. Uh it might we might not think that we can express ourselves or no one is going to understand uh or it it might be shameful but to be able to just to share with those around us whether it's one or two people or or more is is so important. So the the stigma of of well that's a mental illness and I don't want to be in that category. I think we we just need to learn to receive the grace that God wants to bring to us. And that receiving that grace is includes just saying what what we're thinking and feeling. uh I will from time to time I will request prayer for my mental health in our church meeting and and so then people who care can can pray for me and maybe someone will come and ask me how I'm doing. I'm also I've joined uh NAMI which is the national association on mental illness I think. So there's a support group that uh and I've just I've just joined so I haven't really experienced this much yet but to get together in a in an online meeting twice a month and talk to people in my local area who are also facing mental health challenges. Uh that's a good thing. And then, you know, just talk to my wife to be able to talk to her. And if if someone's not married, to to have a a friend or a parent or a mentor uh to talk to is is a big key. It's not going to make it's not going to make it go away. Uh but it's it's it's the way that God wants us to >> uh to help each other. God wants us to receive help and encouragement from our brothers and sisters. And if they don't know that we're struggling, how are they supposed to to help us? Will there be times when they might say or do something that's not helpful? Probably so. Uh but but we we were not created to live in isolation or or to silently deal with these things are we simply we simply cannot live like that. >> Having having routines is is important. So things that we do regularly and daily that we don't have to decide or make a decision about uh those kinds of of things are healthy for us that struggle with with our mental health. Prayer is is essential for me. Uh I I pray in private some but I also pray with people. So I pray with Sue regularly and then there's a couple fellows from our congregation that I meet with regularly >> early mornings uh to pray with them and and that is has been very helpful and supportive. Again, it doesn't make the suffering go away, uh, but it it makes a path through the suffering, and it's a way for God to minister to me through the people that he's put around me. And and I would encourage Yeah. beyond, you know, telling people, like I said, it's it's difficult for those of us who have mental health issues to self treat or to know which doctor to go to or and so so in in seeking help, it's it's so important to have people around us that can help us navigate those decisions. uh we we might not want to get help when we should or we might feel so overwhelmed with our situation that making a decision about what doctor to go to or how to find one just seems so big that we'll just we'll just neglect to do it. And so having having people to help us make a decision like that is important. Arlland, in this conversation, we've covered a lot of things, but was there anything in particular you wanted to discuss that we didn't get to? Not sure how to best say this, but you ask about, you know, how does the church help or what is this? What ought to be the church's response? And I think one thing that I have have learned and I I wonder how how it came to be that I I kind of believed this, but Jesus promised that that following him would would not be easy and that that we should expect challenges and and difficulties and and I think I when I when I chose to follow Jesus and and be a part of the body of Christ, the church, I think somehow I expected that uh that I would feel blessed for doing that or for for following God and that blessing would somehow translate into less suffering >> and that there would be people who follow God experience less suffering >> and and that is something that that's a kind of a deeply held belief that that I've had to come to uh acknowledge and and accept rather the the truth of what Jesus said >> that that to follow him will be suffering and that to lay down our life and to take up our cross and follow him. Uh that will be that will be normal and and to learn to learn that there is there is joy in suffering. Uh suffering is not something to be avoided or to be eradicated. If if the church tries to portray that following God is going to take care of suffering, then how are we going to learn to embrace uh the way of Jesus? It it's not our our calling to take away our own suffering or other people's suffering. It is it is our calling to embrace what God brings and and to learn uh to follow him in that and and to to be open to the joy like one one one of the poets said uh to the joy which will come when he sees it meet and that that can be sometimes look like a long ways off for those of us who suffer in this way. But it will come. Uh our our life on earth is is very short and and our suffering will soon be done. And we we look forward that this is this is not a cliche but but we look we look forward to redemption when our our lives will be made perfect for those of us who who suffer in this way. you know, the joy of that new life uh that perfect nervous system uh will be just that much sweeter. And so I look forward in hope no matter what may come yet in this life. I look forward in hope and faith uh trusting that his promises will come true. Thank you for being willing to share about this. This is something we at least for myself I didn't know anything about. I didn't didn't understand and feels like you've opened a bit of a door for me try to understand a little bit more and um wow this has been yeah I just I really thank you for your openness and willingness to share about these things today. >> Yes. Thank you for the opportunity and I hope that it can be it can be bring hope >> uh to to someone who may be struggling or hope to people who are trying to help those >> who are struggling. >> Thanks for listening to this episode with Arlland. We did another one with Michael where he describes how communities can better support those in need along some of the similar lines of what Arlland was saying. You can find that episode linked in the description below. Thanks so much for listening and we'll catch you in the next episode. [music]