What Did Patriotism Look Like for Mennonites in 1776? - Romaine Stauffer

When they immigrated and came to Philadelphia, they went into what is now Independence Hall and had to sign allegiance to the king. So now they're being asked to break this promise >> and be loyal to this new government. To break a promise was a serious sin. So what are they going to do? Who is their rightful? Who's their Caesar? >> Well, Roma [music] Stalford, welcome to the podcast today. >> Thank you for having me. >> So, I've known about your work, but I actually haven't read much of what you've written until until recently. And uh you've written, we were just talking before we turned the cameras on. You've written 17 books which I didn't realize um you'd written that many which is amazing. Uh but this one in particular we want to talk about the stories here and this is called Loyalty Test and some of the Menanite experience in the Revolutionary War here in America and what all went into that story how it affected our people some of the characters that were involved in that and uh yeah we want to get into that story today. So could you lay maybe some context for for the Revolutionary War, how it affected our communities? Maybe we can start big picture and then go from there. >> Our Anabaptist perspective of the Revolutionary War is a lot different than what we were taught in our textbooks in school. The history of the United States has been romanticized and fictionalized to portray the nation as founded on Christian principles and the founding fathers of men of God who >> um released freed us from oppression. Uh the Declaration of Independence mentions God, but it says that government gets its authority from the people who have the right to change it. And we believe government gets its authority from God. >> And I there are I said about uh history being fictionalized. Two examples of that are George Washington kneeling in the snow to pray at Valley Forge. >> Oh yes, I've heard this story. Okay. >> And Patrick Henry's famous statement, give me liberty or give me death. Both of those uh there is they were conceived many years after the fact. >> Patrick Henry didn't say that then. As far as >> there's no proof for it. I didn't know that >> someone wrote up his speech. >> I don't remember how many years later, but it was years later. Somebody wrote up his speech. Did he actually say that or not? We can't prove that he did. >> I Okay. I didn't I didn't realize that. Like I've heard that so many times. >> There's been a lot of debate whether he actually said that or not. >> We aren't sure. And the one the very famous image of George Washington kneeling in the snow and praying at Valley Forge that there's just no proof that ever happened. >> No, somebody did a painting of that. >> Well, yeah. Yeah, exactly. I've seen the painting. >> Then we have the story. >> Okay. Well, that's [laughter] okay. That's interesting. >> And another myth is that the sentiment for independence was overwhelming in the colonies. H >> the patriots were actually highly a highly motivated and organized uh minority that put the pressure on the unorganized silent majority that was satisfied with the status quo. Do >> do we have rough numbers of how how that would have been? When you say minority, we mean like a tiny tiny minority or like >> 48% kind of minority if you know what >> oneird. >> Yeah. >> That is not what I got when from the textbooks in school. You know what I mean? You know when you read the history it's like I yeah >> okay one third. So when I wrote loyalty test um it that is an attempt to reveal at least a measure of what our Anabaptist ancestors experienced. It was a time when their faith was really tested >> and especially in Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania had the largest um peace church population in the colonies. Now when I say peace churches that is Quakers, Menanites, Amish, Brethren, Moravians, and a few smaller sects like the Schwankfelders and the Seventh Day Baptist. the um Moravians that that's an area that's today what in the Czech Republic right or that was called Moravia at the time so it was people from there that had come over >> same with the Quakers I guess and >> and the Moravians had settlements in Bethlehem >> um lit and a few other places >> okay >> they were not anabaptist they did infant baptism But they did believe in non-resistance. So when I say peace churches, not all of them were Anabaptists, but they all shared the same belief in non-resistance. >> Mhm. >> Non-resistance is not a word you'll find in the Bible, but it comes from the sermon on the mount. Jesus said, "Resist not evil, but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. If any man will sue thee of the law and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you and persecute you. So non-resistance, resist not evil. That's where we get the word non-resistance. Mhm. >> It's not only an objection to being in the military, but it is a lifestyle of peace and love, not force >> is is the way to conquer enemies. And and that is still true today. >> Violence begets violence and and love changes hearts. So, peace churches uh comprised about a quarter of the population of Pennsylvania. >> Oh, that's >> Well, >> that's is that the highest it's ever been in history or that seems like a lot. >> I wouldn't know. Population has increased since then. So, I'm not sure >> what number to give today. Mhm. >> But at that time, >> uh, wow. >> It was about a quarter of the population of Pennsylvania. Now, Pennsylvania wasn't settled the whole way east to west. >> Sure. >> It was the majority was east of the Cespana River. >> It's still like a quarter. That seems that that's definitely higher than I would have expected it to to be. I'm sure that caused some issues in the during the war and >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> And uh some people of course a lot of them were Germans and Benjamin Franklin was worried about how many Germans are coming. [laughter] >> Oh no. >> He was afraid the Germans might take over. Um >> called them Palatine Bo. >> Okay. [laughter] But Pennsylvania was a very hospitable place for Anabaptist. Um, William Penn's frame of government 1682 promised freedom of religion to all and his government ruled without a militia and accepted the affirmation instead of the oath which was two things that really um fit with the Anabaptist beliefs. H. And so that that would have just naturally attracted anybody say fleeing from Europe, any of the Menites, Sish, whatever, they would have naturally wanted to come to Pennsylvania. >> He actually in that case >> gone to some Menanites um and invited them personally invited them to come and urged them to come. One of the reasons he left Europe was because the Quakers were persecuted there and he understood what persecution is for the Anabaptists and so come to my colony, you will have freedom of religion. >> Oh, that makes a lot of sense. I I didn't really know that. >> He called it his holy experiment. >> Okay. that we can we can have a government a peaceful government that doesn't need a militia. >> And of course the Quakers were did not believe in swearing oaths either. So was a very good place for >> for the Anabaptists to settle >> and [clears throat] they were happy with the Quakers in government. Everything was going well for them. But eventually the Quakers lost control. The other Presbyterians and others overruled them and they got voted out. >> And so the Quakers lost control in 1775. And then after that things headed toward war pretty quickly. Oh, that's what that's like right up to the >> right before the Declaration of Independence, right before the war. I didn't realize that. So, the Quakers would have been governing authority of the government, the >> Okay. For for this, well, the entire colony of Pennsylvania, I guess now it's a state, but >> from the late 1600s when William Penn came until 1775. >> Oh, wow. So, almost a hundred years. >> Yeah. And so then there's your question. What was life like for the Anabaptists during the Revolutionary War? How did it affect uh how did it affect their lives, lives of the peace churches? >> Um and they tried to remain neutral, but how did that work out? And a lot of what I will say is taken from that book. It it affected um Menanites in other parts of Pennsylvania, but most of what I will say is from Lancaster County because that's the part that I have studied and >> and know. [clears throat] But the what happened to them in Lancaster County happened in other counties as well. Well, can you give us a bit of the timeline, I guess you could say, leading up to this? I feel like I'm a little fuzzy on the details surrounding the revolutionary war. Like what were the grievances and then how did the Menanites respond to those you where where the colonies are saying there's all these issues and we want to break away from England and you know I don't know how much detail you want to say there but kind of the build up to get us to the point of war and then again what did the Menanites think of those grievances? I guess I don't know if that's the right word to use. Yeah, whatever you'd like to say on that. >> I don't have a lot of details. You know, everybody heard about the Boston Tea Party and that kind of thing. What I would say is the Revolutionary War was stirred up in the New England states and it was rooted in a long um rebellion against English against England and that the Welsh and the ScotchIrish people carried with them across the ocean. The Welsh had never gotten independence from England. and resented that. >> And the Irish, you know, they had problems too with England. >> And at least a third of the signers of the Declaration of Independence had Welsh ancestry. The Welsh were the first to come to Pennsylvania and establish a colony. They they came and established a colony that they wanted to rule themselves, be within Pennsylvania, but rule it themselves. >> And they lost that as people came and it grew. >> They lost that. And at least a third of the signers of the Declaration of Independence had Welsh ancestry, including Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin. >> I didn't realize that. Okay. >> And uh his the British hired Hezians to fight in the war. >> He So where where would those be from? from Germany. The Germany was not united into a country at that time, the part of Germany that was called Hess. So Germans were great fighters and so they hired heins to fight and a Hessen captain wrote this in 1778. Call this war by whatever name you may only call it not an American rebellion. It is nothing more or less than a Scotch parish Presbyterian rebellion. >> That's a that that puts a different spin on it. [laughter] We don't really hear that. >> Yeah. >> But >> the Presbyterians pushed the Quakers out >> and took control. And that's back to that 1775, right? Where the Quakers are no longer in charge of the I'm sure that's way oversimplifying, but in charge of the government in the colony of Pennsylvania. >> Yeah. >> It's a Presbyterian group or something, however you want to describe it. >> Well, they weren't all Presbyterians. >> Um, some of them were not what professing Christians really. Uh would they be like deists some of them? >> Yes. >> Is that the word? Yeah. >> Some of them. Thomas Jefferson >> was a theist. Um >> Ben Franklin as well. >> Yeah. And >> Okay. Yeah. >> And Unitarian. >> Oh, before we go on, can you define deist and unarian? >> Believe there is a God, but he's not really involved with us. and uh Unitarian didn't believe in the the Trinity. >> Oh, so like Jesus isn't isn't God [clears throat] basically. >> Yeah. >> And Thomas Jefferson, it is said that he had his own version of the Bible that he cut out everything that he didn't like u like miracles and things like that. >> Oh boy. >> So >> yeah. >> Yeah. But as far as what was happening affected uh the peace churches in Pennsylvania, things in Lexington, Concord, Boston, the things that happened up there, um the shot around the world, the Boston Tea Party and so on. That didn't affect the peace churches uh in Pennsylvania till 1775. The Continental Congress headquarters were in Philadelphia. The 13 colonies, their headquarters were in Philadelphia and that's where the Continental Congress met. >> And then they formed a militia. They pushed the Quakers out. They said, "We can not have a government without a without military." And so they formed a militia and appointed George Washington commander and chief >> and then men were required to enlist. Um they were told this is your duty to God in the country. You need to enlist and help us fight this war. And then that became a personal matter for Anabaptist non-resistant people. >> Like up to this point, the Menanites would have had to have been hearing about all the things that are happening, etc. >> What was their position? Were they just like we're not involved? >> Yeah. >> We like this would have been complicated because then like who's the governing authority then? >> Yeah. you know, cuz they are supposed to be part of the British Empire essentially, but yet now there's a rebellion that's trying to leave that. So, do they get stuck in the middle somewhere? >> Up up until 1775, that's up in New England. They're having problems. >> It doesn't affect us. That's far away. >> And they re they heard about it, but they weren't concerned because >> that's people in New England fighting. >> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. >> But then when it came to u now you need to enlist then it was a personal matter for them. >> That was their problem. When they immigrated, they had and when they immigrated and came to Philadelphia, they went into what is now Independence Hall and had to sign allegiance to the king. >> Okay? >> And and when they were naturalized, they had to uh promise allegiance to the king. So now they're being um asked to break this promise >> and be loyal to this new government. To break a promise was a serious sin. So what are they going to do? Who is their rightful Who's their Caesar? >> Yeah. Well, I mean, what did they do then? >> Well, that was the problem. >> Yeah. >> How do they decide what they're going to do? Um, and other problems were, should they pay a war tax? This tax was um imposed by a selfappointed rebellious government. And should they Uh what like what did they do like specifically on on the war attacks for example? >> Well that caused a lot of debate. Um they did pay a lot of taxes. They of course were not going to um register with the military and fight. And so those who did not register or drill um were harassed by those that did. And they accused the Anabaptists of being cowards and staying home to fill their pock stay on their farms fill their pocket. And so in July of that year, um the committee for public safety posted put up broadsides, which we would call posters, telling people that um that those with religious groups need to voluntarily contribute generously, quote, toward the necessary and unavoidable expenses of the public. Oh boy. >> I'm almost thinking, is that the one? You have a picture of that >> of that poster in here. Thinking you do. I saw that >> and I was like, "Oh, >> this is like Can you imagine seeing this hanging up in your town or something? I'm trying to find it here in the book." But I found Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Here it is. >> Um, June 30th, 1775 or no, July, no, sorry, July 11th, >> 1775. So, what was the unavoidable expenses of the public? >> See, it's vague. They're not really saying what this is going to be used for. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Christian Burkeholder, my ancestor, he responded and he gave u there's a list of those who um contributed. He contributed one pound, two shillings, which today would be about $200. But he understood that this is going to be used for humanitarian purposes, not military. And his I have a list where his name is at the top of the third page. >> How about that? >> Uh it's a list of all the nonassociators in Earl Township that subscribed as nonassociators. So nonassociators would say we're not taking sides. Was that a declaration of neutrality? >> Yeah. Okay. >> Well, okay. Let's let's let's take a look at the Christian Burkeolder figure. Then you're saying that's your ancestor. That's one of the key figures that you talk about in the in the book here. >> He's the main character in the book. >> Yeah. >> Who Yeah. So who was he also if he was your ancestor? I'm curious like how many generations back would have that been? seven maybe. I'm not sure off the top of my head. I'm >> Yeah, >> that's interesting though because this is not that Tim makes it a little more real. That's not just Oh, here's some >> somebody back there back in the day had to face this. This is someone in your >> Our parents were Burkeholders >> descended from Christian Burkholder. >> So, I'm when I'm writing this story, it's not Yeah. Some big figure. It's my ancestor. >> Yeah. >> This isn't a theoretical or I don't know. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Tell me about Christian Burke Holder. I'm sure there's a lot that could be said, but >> let's start with basically, you know, who who was he? Where does he come into this story? Where did he live? >> Well, so forth. >> Um, Loyalty Test is a sequel to my earlier book, Hidden Riches. in in Hidden Riches. I tell how he was 9 years old when he came with his widowed mother and five siblings. >> They came from Switzerland to um Philadelphia October the 1st, 17 54 and they settled in Lancaster County. In hidden riches, that book ends with him going to the effort of coister and buying a copy of the martyr's mirror. And then the first chapter of loyalty test overlaps with the last chapter of hidden riches starts again with him getting his martyr's mirror. >> Okay. And we know when he bought that martyr's mirror then like do we still have >> 1761 he bought it. He wrote inside that he bought it in 1761 and he paid £1.17 shillings for it which would have been roughly 13 days wages. >> 13 days wages. That's a lot of money. >> And the book >> Oh my. >> The book is preserved in the Buddy Creek Library at Africa. >> You said Muddy Creek Library. >> Mhm. >> So you you can go see this. >> Yes. >> Okay. So I just have to here. This is in translation because you wrote it in German script, right? So yeah, what you have here, let me just quick read this in the beginning of your book. This is what Christian writes in the beginning. This this martyr book belongs to me, Christian Buller. And I have bought it for my good and for the salvation of my soul in the year of Christ 1,761. And then it says I cost me 1.17 shillings. That's pretty neat actually. You can go like right back to that event. >> Yes. >> In a way, >> he also has in the book he has his family record. >> So you were able to use that to reconstruct a lot of >> story really >> who the who his siblings were. That that book had been lost and and then one day it came up on the public auction. >> Wow. And we didn't know the names of his sisters. His sister's names were not correct. >> And then with that family record in his martyr's mirror, we found the correct names of his sisters and it and one of them who she married. >> So So he goes and buys this. I guess the 13 days wages I that's that's a lot of money. So that was expensive at the time. He would have been a young >> then as well 1761, right? Yes. >> Um but he buys at the Epherta Closter. What is the effort of cloister? Like I've driven by it like I think even even this time when I'm here in Pennsylvania I was going somewhere to meet someone for lunch or whatever. I was like oh there's the effort cloister. No idea what it is, you know. >> And then now you're telling me it was there when he bought this in 1761. So it's it's an old place. >> Yes. It was established in 1732 by Conrad Basil. >> Okay. >> Who was had been German Baptist which today we call Brethren but he got ideas that you should keep Saturday as the Sabbath instead of Sunday. um live believe live believe live believe live believe live believe live believe live believe live believe lived in celibacy and a very strict lifestyle aestheticism >> and they developed a very thriving self-sufficient community they had a farm and a mill and a print shop and um were quite prosperous even in spite of the way they lived. And and then when um Bisel died, Peter Miller took his place as the leader of this uh society. He was a university graduate from Germany. He was fluent in several languages. And the Menanites when they saw this the French and Indian War coming wanted to have the martyrs bear was printed in Dutch and they wanted to have that in German for their people and so they asked the Dutch to do a translation for them but nothing happened. So the the Menanites from the Francunia area went to Africa and asked Peter Miller if he would translate the motor's mirror into German and he knew like I said several languages. So he he was had the ability to do it and so the the brothers there at the cloister helped him. They made the paper do the printing and all that and he did the translating. It took three years >> to translate and print that book and they printed 1300 copies and it was the it was the largest book printed [clears throat] in the colony colonies. >> So the town of Epherta sort of grew up around the closter. It was the wilderness when Bisel went there, but they developed a whole eventually a whole town and that's where Christian Burgolder went to buy his book. Christian was ordained as a minister at Brothdale in 1770 and then as bishop in 1780. He was 26 when he was ordained as a minister and then later became the the bishop and he served as bishop during the revolutionary war and was involved in the things um the issues of that time. They petitioned the government several times and things like that until the war ended. And then after the war ended um in 17 91 I think it was he wrote a book called a wrote it in German a useful and edifying address to youth and it was published in 1804 and it's still in print today in English and German. >> Whoa. 200 years later. Yeah. >> So, you can still go read this. >> You can still buy it. >> Whoa. >> The German version is used by the old orders um in their instructions for church membership. >> Really? So, it's like um I don't know what you call like Yeah, like the instruction class for or I mean um like a membership in the membership process. >> His he did it in a question and answer style. >> No way. 200 years and it's still being used. So >> yeah, >> he was he was really a pretty influential >> Yes. >> I mean in many way well yeah I mean even today then still influential >> his legacy still lives. So in in this whole process, I mean, the Revolutionary War is starting to kick off, you know, a few years after he's ordained, there's this challenge between this upstart American experiment, I guess you could say, and their loyalty to the king, like to the crown. So if they made a promise that this is the country that they So there's tension there. So they're taking a position of neutrality. When I say they, I guess I'm thinking of the Menanites because that's where we're going to be focusing on more. So, what resulted from that from them taking that position? Can can you give us some tangibles there? >> Yeah. Well, one of the things they did um the peace churches met to discuss these war issues and what they should do. >> Mhm. And should they even register as nonassociators? >> Okay. And so they they it was the Menanites and the Brethren or the German Baptists got together to discuss this and they decided it's okay to register as a non-associator because that is only stating our position like like we would register as a CEO. >> Oh, okay. Okay. So, like >> it's not taking a side >> like if the United States military system and there's a draft. We're registering but we're registering as a conscientious objector like we're not going to which is interesting. That's a whole another topic. We just um we're going to be releasing an episode on the Menanites during World War I and how they had to go through that process because it was it was pretty complicated and and my my great-grandfather went through that and I actually still have his his records of you register but like I I'm a non-combatant. I can't be a part of this basically. >> But anyways, >> yeah. So, so first of all, they stated their position as >> a nonassociator. We're not taking either side. >> We're not patriot or um loyalist. M >> and at that meeting uh Bishop Benjamin Hershey was the oldest bishop and the moderator of the whole group and he wrote a short and sincere declaration that was signed by the Menanites and the German Baptist elders and they presented it to the assembly in Philadelphia in November. What year did you >> November of 1775. >> So really early on in the in the I guess you could say rebellion. This is >> the war has started at this point, right? >> So they're stating their position >> that they are non-resistant. They said this the petition said that they are willing to help anybody in need the way they had always done. >> Okay. And then they said this, "We have dedicated ourselves to serve all men in everything that can be helpful to the preservation of men's lives, but we find no freedom in giving or doing or assisting in anything by which men's lives are destroyed or hurt." >> Oh, you have you have this in in the in the book. So this document is preserved some somewhere. Did do you know where it's even held? Like >> where did you find this? >> I don't remember. [laughter] >> I'm sure you can look. I'm sure it's on the internet somewhere. But also it'd be interesting to know where the where the copy of this. Yeah. Wow. >> This is really neat. >> I think the Lancaster Menanite Historical Society that is now called Menanite Life. It's either there or in the Moravian archives that lit it. >> Okay. >> I'm not sure. >> Uh you actually have in here the known associators in Langster County. Just to reiterate who we're talking about. It was almost entirely of men of Menanites, Quakers, German Baptists, and members of other peace churches. So maybe there were a few other people who would have taken this position, but on the whole it was these peace searches that we've been identifying as you've been pointing out. Like what was the response to this document? It's it's >> fairly lengthy actually. I'm looking at this. It's a pretty big sheet of paper here. >> They graciously received it. >> Okay. [clears throat] and responded by imposing a tax of two pounds 10 shillings. >> On all nonassociators between the ages of 16 and 50. >> Oh, >> that would have been something over $400. Now, all men over six between 16 and 50. So if a man had several sons in that age group, think what that costs. >> And these are people that are that don't have a lot. I mean there's just still early days are still, you know, trying to get their farm set up, etc. Like I guess >> it would have been difficult to pay >> Yeah. >> a fine like that. M >> in 1776 after the Declaration of Independence was signed in 76. Then um the Pennsylvania Convention said that all nonassociators must be disarmed and their guns were seized. >> Now they had only used them for hunting, but that was a quick way for them to get guns. Oh, so they find you, they take take your gun, which >> Yeah, >> especially if you're in rugged, you know, backwood country or whatever, that would actually be kind of important to have, right? >> Well, yeah, because there were wild animals around that come after your pigs or whatever. [laughter] >> Plus, a rifle like that, I'm sure it costs a decent amount of money at the time. Oh, well, the Pennsylvania rifle was the one they liked the best. I don't know that much about guns. I can't describe it, but >> it was a it was the one they liked the best. So, >> so there there's pretty immediate consequences at the beginning of the war. Like, did this continue on through through the duration of the war or was it okay, now that we got that out of the way, you're not associated with this and they kind of leave you alone. >> Yeah. The next thing that happened June of 1777, all males were ordered to um enroll for duty for military duty and that's when the test oath was established. >> Tell me about that. What What is the test oath? Because that's a phrase that comes up as I'm reading through the book. Well, what was that? The testo was uh renouncing allegiance to the to King George and swearing allegiance to the new um >> government. And they were told that they must swear this oath before a justice of the peace by August the 1st, 1777. There's where the real loyalty test came in. What are they going to do? They had promised to be loyal to the king when they immigrated or were naturalized >> and now to take this oath. They're breaking their promise and swearing allegiance to a new government which they could not do because they didn't swear oath. >> That was the first thing wrong with it. Um Jesus had said swear not at all. Let your communication be yay yay nay nay for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil. In other words, Jesus said, "Your word is as good as your promise, and you don't need to swear an oath." >> The second thing is it it would break a promise. It would break a commandment of Jesus. And the next thing is it included a vow to report to the authorities all treasons or traitorous conspiracies which I now know or hereafter shall know. So, in effect, it was they were promising that they would spy on their neighbors. >> Oh, I'm I don't think that went over very well, probably. >> No, >> I mean, but well, like, what are the options? Like, if they say, "Sorry, we're just not doing that." >> Okay. >> I mean, do what do they do? Like, fine you again or impose another tax or, you know? Well, those that refused to take the test oath, they were forbidden to hold public office, buy, sell, or transfer land. And no, they didn't care so much about the public office, but u they couldn't buy, sell, or transfer land. At least 10 Anabaptist men that we know of were um jailed in Lancaster for refusing to take test. >> Lancaster city that would be today, right? >> Yeah. Mhm. And >> taxes were increased to three pounds pen shillings. Instead of two pounds, it's three pounds. And those who refused to take test oaths were called nonjurers and charged double taxes. So now we're up to six pounds. >> Had they already paid the the original tax like the year before, I think it is they had been posting. >> Oh, this is coming around every year. >> So this is the yearly tax. Yeah. That hits Oh, boy. But it started at like just over one pound and now we're up to six pounds. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. >> And how many sons do you have? that >> needed pay. >> And also the the land aspect would have been significant, right? Because these are maybe they haven't lived here very long, they're immigrants, etc. They're trying to establish, say, a farm >> and now you can't buy any more land, so you're kind of stuck or you can't transfer or sell it. That's a huge hit for people that are um agrarian >> and that's one of the reason they wanted to come so they could own land because they couldn't own land >> in Europe. >> Ouch. >> And they wanted to be land owners. A lot of them bought big plots like hundreds of acres >> and then they would split it between their sons. Now you can't do that. >> Yeah. So yeah, they were getting hit >> different ways and if they couldn't pay their taxes, I mean these taxes are really high now. >> If they couldn't pay them, their crops, their animals, their wagons, things could be confiscated as payment for the taxes. >> Isn't there you you had in here that Christian brick holders wagon for example gets taken because can't pay the tax. So they come and just Well, we we'll take this instead. >> Yeah. >> Right. I don't know. Do you want to say more on that? >> Well, I don't know that for a fact. >> Mhm. >> That his wagon was actually taken, but that's the kind of thing that happened. >> You're using that as an example of this is things that they faced as you're telling the story. >> Yeah. And and Patty McCull comes and gets his his wagon and Patty McCulla is the antagonist in that story. [laughter] I used he's a fictitious character, but I used him to show >> how those who did associated felt about those who didn't >> and harassed them and you know took advantage of them wherever they could. So they have high taxes. Their crops and animals and things could be taken as payment. And they were supposed to report for drills every so often. And if they didn't report, if they didn't show up, then there were fines for that, too. >> I'm curious on that one. Did did they ever show up for drills just to avoid the the fine or was that part of their agreement as we're nonassociated so we're not going to show up for that either? >> That's a good question. It's the next thing I'm going to talk about. [laughter] >> Okay. Yeah. >> Uh Julia Wer did a study on the Lancaster County Militia Ledger titled Return of the Delinquents. And this lists the names of the men who did not attend when they were called up for military drills. Um then the names were turned over to the sheriff and he went around collected the fines. So this ledger um it's easy to spot who were the Menanites by their surnames and uh it shows the reason for not attending whether they were excused or not the amount of fine whether it was paid or appealed. a few of the it it's interesting to look at their um responses, their answers why they didn't attend. It's really a variety of reasons why they didn't attend. There weren't a whole lot. You would expect that they would say, you know, it's their beliefs, >> but there's not very many. There are some that said conscientious, scrupulous, against bearing arms, but that wasn't accepted as valid reason. So, they would be more likely to give another reason why they didn't show up or drill reasons that would be more likely to be excused. Um, I have some here. Oh, >> some of the reason some of the excuses they or reasons they gave why they didn't show up. >> This is really neat that we have access to records like this. >> Yeah, >> please do read some of those. >> Too much work. Wife about to lie in that is give birth. >> It was feeding time. >> A little lame. a rupture, which would be a hernia, >> can't see well, sick. [laughter] Physical reasons were more likely to be accepted as excuses. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So, sometimes they were excused and and then there would be no fine. So you would try to get excused if you can, but really it was because they didn't want to be part of the military. >> So there were um a lot of people that were uh arrested, jailed for not participating. Um, there was one little congregation in Lehi County that all the men were imprisoned for refusing to take the test to >> Sorry, where was that? >> In Lehi County. >> All of them. How many do you know how many? Like >> a small congregation. It >> sure. But >> I I don't have the exact number how many it was. >> How long would have they been jailed? because that could be devastating for the congregation and for their farms obviously and so forth. >> Yeah. Well, I don't have I don't have the facts for that how long it was, but usually until they could pay the fine, >> whatever it was. There were 11 families in North Alberlin County that the men were arrested and all their possessions were seized and sold. Um the women and children were left with nothing. >> I where did they go? I mean that would be >> well >> devastating. They had to depend on relatives and friends >> for help because all their household goods and everything was sold. >> And there were two women from those 11 men, two women that filed a petition asking the government for mercy, but it was tabled and nothing happened. So they they were left to the mercy of their friends and relatives and in Burks County there were Amish that were in prison for not taking the pesto. So it did happen quite a bit. >> This is still pretty early in the Revolutionary War. >> Um you said 1776 still. Is that the year we're in or are we a little later or 77? >> I think 77. >> Okay. >> About 767. Yeah. >> There's still what, five more years of this war that that's going to happen. >> Yeah. So like So that that's how it affected them for being neutral, I guess you could say, or nonassociated. >> Yeah. >> Were there other effects? Like did the war didn't really end up in the Lancaster area that much, did it? Did did the Menanites have direct interaction with soldiers, with any of the conflicts, etc.? >> Uh, yeah. There were battles fought in Pennsylvania and not that far away. The headquarters was Philadelphia. Headquarters for the colonies was Philadelphia. >> Okay. The worst part was the winter of 1777 to78. At that time, the British were in control of Philadelphia. >> And anyone that went to Philadelphia, you know, Lancaster County isn't that far away from Philadelphia. So, anybody that went to Philadelphia was suspected of aiding the British. And that's all you had to do. go to Philadelphia and you could be arrested and there were some that were >> Yeah. Wendel Bowman um went to Philly to get some legal documents for his widowed mother and was arrested and jailed >> just because he went there to get legal papers. >> Oops. >> Wendle Bowman. Yeah. And the other problem was because Philadelphia was cut off, Lancaster County farmers would take their crops to to Philadelphia to sell their wheat and so forth. >> Oh, >> now they can't market their products. >> So, what what did they do? Like that that's a pretty big financial hit. Were there other markets they could sell to or Well, also you're saying the winter of 77 and 78 >> Yeah. >> was significant. Is that is that the winter of Valley Forge? Ah, okay. The famous, you know, history there of of Valley Forge. Okay. >> So, what was the market for their wheat? >> Well, it would have probably been the army. Well, >> right. >> Yeah. Washington's army was camped at Valley Forge and they were starving and so foragers would go out to farms in their surrounding area, take their crops, their animals, they're hungry >> and take those things for food. And in Lancaster County, farmers tried to and I suppose the surrounding area, the farmers tried to hide their crops, but you know, threshing was done in the winter. They would take they would take the harvest the grain in the summer and take it into their barns and then thresh it in the winter >> with flails. threat with sl. And so that winter, um, Washington issued an order that all farmers within 70 mile radius of Valley Forge must have their grain threshed by a certain date in March. And if it was not threshed, it would be taken and paid for as straw. So commissioners went out to buy the grain from the farmers. They didn't seize it. They bought it and they gave them receipts that could be redeemed for continental currency, but it wasn't worth the paper it was printed on. >> This would have been basically they're trying to because well, we're we're declaring independence. We're going to issue our own currency. Mhm. >> But it was just >> it was more the idea of a currency like versus say were they before this on the British pound I guess, right? >> Yeah. >> Um >> and the continental currency they're it developed a saying not worth a continental. >> Oh. Oh, that's not wrong. [laughter] >> That's not good because inflation was out of control. Huh. >> And the depreciation continued. I'm saying this they were paying for this grain in seven the spring of 78, March of 78, >> but the depreciation continued until uh by 1780 a continental money was only worth 140th of face value. >> Oh, that that happened quick. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, they they come and take the grain. They give you a receipt for it. Oh, you can go turn it in for this currency, but >> and [clears throat] the money is not worth anything. >> Oh my. That's a bad deal. >> They couldn't sell it. >> Mhm. >> And when it when they did give it to the they basically gave it to the government. >> Oh, yeah. Because they can't sell it in Philadelphia like they used to cuz that's Oh. Oh, boy. You are kind of stuck though at that point, right? So, but that grain was going to the army >> to make bread, right? >> So, what did the Menanites do with that? Was there resistance to that of wait this is material supplying materials to the army and we don't want to do like we can't do that or were there >> times where maybe well we can't stop you from taking this grain? >> Yeah, that was their attitude. >> Uh, >> okay. I won't sell it to you, but if you take it, I can't do anything about it. We're non-resistant. >> Yeah. >> But there the inflation kept running unchecked until it was so bad >> that they wouldn't even accept their own money as payment for taxes. >> Then it had to be paid in coins. >> So, and then that continental currency went out of circulation. So >> okay, >> it died out. >> The army was also in short supply of paper for they needed paper to make cartridges. They needed that for gun wading. >> And so soldiers came to um Christopher Sour's print shop in German Town. He was a a German Baptist man and had had a print shop and they came to his print shop and took all his German Bibles that he had printed and then they went to the effort of cloister and raided that and took 325 unbound copies of martyr's mirror for gunwiding. the books that were printed to promote peace turned up being shredded and shot out of musketss in this war of rebellion. >> 10 years later after the war was over, um the government offered that lovers of the volume have the opportunity to buy it back. And so they did go and get 175 of those books. Most of them were damaged or incomplete, >> but they got them back. >> So those would have been ones that hadn't been turned into musket wading basic or or something. >> Most of them pages were torn out. They were incomplete and and damaged. But >> and they had to pay to get them back. >> They had to pay to get them back. >> Oh, that kind of hurts. >> But they did. They wanted them back. >> And there's one man, his name was John Van Gandhi. He bought a complete copy and had it found. And he wrote in there that uh he paid 60 cents for it and another dollar to have a leather leather cover put on it. So he bought a complete barter mirror for $160. If you want to buy one today, what do you think they cost? >> What are they? $50, something like that. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Uh probably well over a thousand 20,000. [laughter] >> Printed in 1748. >> Oh, you're saying an original? Oh my. Oh, I'm sure it's Yes. At least there can't be many of those left. Oh, no. Those are much more expensive. So he did he note in there that it had been one of the copies I was confiscating. Where can we go see that? Is that preserved somewhere? That particular copy? >> I'm not sure where that is. It if it's at Muddy Creek or not. >> Yeah. The irony of that story is palpable. So it wasn't only the Menanites that suffered for loyalty to God. There were, you know, the Quakers. um Israel Peton was the leader of the Quakers and he and 20 yeah 20 others were arrested and exiled to Virginia for about eight months until they were finally released and let go home. Christopher Sauer, the Germantown printer. He was arrested in 1778 and he was in prison for a couple of days and then released but exiled from Germantown. He could not go back to Germantown which accomplished their purpose, put him out of business. >> Wait, why did they arrest him? What was the charge? because he was a nonassociator and he um printed things that contradicted the patriots loyal Menanites Anabaptists. They were they didn't they walked a tight rope between the loyalist and the patriots trying to stay neutral but they lean toward Brit the British >> because that's who they had made the promise to >> that's who they had made the promise to. >> They didn't know if the colonies win this war. They didn't know what kind of government they were going to have. Would they >> have freedom of religion like they did before? Or was there going to be some kind of a state church like they had in Europe? >> What will be the outcome of this war? They didn't know what's going to happen and they were satisfied with the way they had it >> and would have liked to keep that. >> That's ironic. Yeah. Because the story is today, you know, of course, oh, this horrible tyranny and the rebellion that had to happen, the war, so we get, you know, freedom and the early Menanites are just seeing, huh, like they're they're not really tracking that, you know, but now we're 250 years removed. Kind of lose touch of some of that, I guess. >> Yeah. >> You know, when they when they arrested him and then exiled him or whatever, kicked him out of town, what happens to his print shop? Was that confiscated and becomes government property then? Um, I don't know if the government took it over, but it was shut down. >> I'm Well, yeah. >> And then his son took over the business, but he went to New York. >> Okay. >> Eventually, the center of government shifted from Philadelphia to New York later on, but he went up there and uh continued the the printing business up there. Yeah. As far as how they felt about it, there were most of the Anabaptists favored English rule. There were a few that were lean toward the boiler list and one of those was Christian Funk and it he was in Buckstown day and he agreed with the patriots and that caused problem in the church. [laughter] >> What what did they do? This is a Menanite you're saying? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So what did they do? Well, it was a long hassle. Eventually, he lost his office and they sort of split into the funkites and the funks eventually it died out. The funks went to Virginia. >> That's basically you're describing a essentially a church split. Yeah. over this over deciding o over the question of do we >> stay >> loyalists I guess they called them right or as in we promised >> to be subjects of the crown of of England versus do we join the the patriots in the rebellion and that the big issue was should we pay the war tax thought you should and some thought you shouldn't >> the war tax >> so >> he was he was in favor and others were not. So that was the issue that >> really caused the split. >> There was a lot of taxes it sounds like from what you're describing taxes and fines and >> you have to go to drills and this would have been pretty upsetting to regular life that they would have been used to, right? Yeah, you're just trying to get established and have a farm and now you have all this other stuff that's >> and you're also being watched by your neighbors. You can be reported if you do anything >> true. >> That's been a weird time to be alive and like it's it's kind of easy to forget but that this went on for eight years. Yeah, eightish. Eight years depends on how you want to count it, I guess, as far as the war. >> That's that's a long time. >> They were under a lot of pressure. >> That's a long time. You know, we we have not >> trying to think I mean in the last hundred years we haven't had something in this country even even something like World War II like that was only four years for America at least. And that wasn't here that was over over there, you know, >> and even that I remember, you know, my grandfather telling, you know, it's like all these things that happen. It just kind of goes on and on and you're like, okay, let's get on with reg, you know, you ready for regular life again. That was only four years. I it just seems like that level of upsetting to you're just trying to have a farm and raise your family >> and now you're getting hit with all these taxes and fines and >> and you can't hardly make ends meet. >> Well, yeah, because if they're taking your grain, you know, and giving you worthless money for it, [laughter] >> it's kind of a bad deal. >> Yeah. Huh. >> Really? overall in spite of everything they were loyal to their beliefs >> and um just did what they had to and made the best of it. Mhm. >> Um, in one interesting thing is in townships that were heavily populated by Anabaptist Menanites, the recruiters complained that they can't fill their they can't find enough men to fill their quotas. >> How about that? in Earl Township where Christian Burke Holder lived. Of the 384 taxable men, 239 were nonassociators in 1777. And that left 145 associators. >> That's like twothirds, >> yeah, >> of the available pool, I guess you could say, of guys to go recruit are not an option. And they couldn't get enough >> couldn't get enough people because they were all nonassociators. The majority were nonassociators. >> Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. >> What did they do? Well, they believe God is in control. And so they just decided to sit it out and make the best of it and uh take the losses. >> And their other response was the short and sincere declaration that Benjamin Hershey had written. They lived out what they said in there that they believe it's our job to help those in need but not participate in the fighting. And so they they helped those who needed help. Didn't matter if they were patriot or loyalist. either side, >> they will help anybody that needs help. One of the ways they did that um was after the battle of Brandy Wine, this takes us back again to uh the cloister. After the battle of Brandy Wine, that was in September 1777, wounded soldiers were sent to temporary hospitals. Um some of them were a Quaker church um the Mar the brother's house in the Mavian community at Litz and the effort of Cloister. And during that winter of 1777-78 while the Continental Army was camped at Valley Forge there was a typhoid epidemic which they called it camp fever but it was typhoid. It was caused by the lack of food and proper sanitation. And so the temporary hospitals they had already sent the wounded there and then you have all these men getting sick. And so they were also sent out to these temporary hospitals and they they were flooded. They had more patients than they could handle. So people um living around the effort of cloister volunteered to help take care of these sick men and either helping there at the cloister or taking them into their own homes and caring for them there. And John and Anna Bear were two of those volunteers that um helped take care of the sick. He was a Menanite minister and um they knew that this is a contagious disease and they're putting their lives at risk by taking care of the these men. But they did it anyway. and both of them got this typo. Anna died on March the 20th, 1778 and John died a few weeks later on April the 15th. And in in between there, I think their daughter also died and died. And while that was happening, their son Abraham was in trouble for helping a British soldier. and um he knew he was in trouble so he went into hiding and to this day nobody knows what happened to him. >> So their family is really affected by helping those in need on both sides. >> They they kind of their story kind of faded and was forgotten. They they were buried on their farm which is um in the Akran area. >> Okay. >> And they had several children that had died earlier and were buried there. And so they were buried there with their other children. But their story was forgotten. The cemetery was destroyed. And in 1980, the farmer that lived on that farm plowed up the headstones of John and Anna Bear. And that kind of revived the story. >> Did anybody know the story before that or was it just old records that were in archive and have been lost? >> I'm not sure. Were they? But with the headstones, they could identify them who they were. >> Yeah. and knew their story. Where they found this story now, I can't say, but >> and you can go see them if you go to the historical society. >> Yeah. >> Here's a picture. That's so that's how the story >> gets brought back. >> Yeah. >> To the surface, I guess you say. Yeah. Not to to >> use a pun there, but you know, brought back to our our minds that Oh, yes. That's right. These >> who they were and what they did. Yeah, they >> you know there we hear all about these heroes of the Revolutionary War that fought for our freedom. >> These are unsung heroes who were the true heroes of the Revolutionary War, >> gave their lives >> to help others. That is such an important piece because you have critics, you know, people who don't don't agree say with our position of we won't go to war and they're like, you're just freeloading on sacrifices of others and you don't do anything and >> and then you look at someone like this family, it's like they served >> they they served but it was in a different way. It was preserving life instead of taking it. Yeah. >> And that's a very val I mean that's just as if you want to make the claim that oh no they didn't do their part. It's like yeah they they did they just did it in a not by shooting people you know and I think that's a critical piece >> in the non-resistance. >> Um >> and we have the same opportunity today. >> Yeah. >> To do things that promote peace [clears throat] instead of >> um enlisting and fighting. Mhm. >> We can still do things that are helpful. >> It's not sitting on our hands and being like, "Oh, well, there's nothing we can do, you know." No, it's an active engagement with the issues and by loving people, by helping in that case, even at they would have known going into that the danger. >> Yeah. >> That I mean, Typho is brutal. And there are a lot of programs that the church has today >> that has opportunity to serve in those kind of ways. >> Just last year, um, goods store put up in their entrance, they put up a painting of the John Bear Farm and a plaque. >> Oh, neat. >> Recognizing their sacrifice. >> That's not that far from here. I should on my way once we finish recording and go from here. I should go over there and see that. >> Yeah, >> that's so neat. >> When you go >> when you go in, look up above the entrance, above the doors at the entrance and the painting and the flag is still there. There was a monument put up on the the backside of the cloister recognizing the re revolutionary war soldiers that died there >> in the cloister when they were the sick that died there and there was a monument put up in their honor and I think it was it's only right to put up something recogn recognizing the sacrifice of John and Anna bear to >> again the they were serving basically in a temporary hospital in the cloister right the effort cloister so that's where they would have caught the disease >> the brother's house was >> okay that's really phenomenal that or not phenomen that's it's I guess almost tragic in a way that a story like that could be lost so easily because those are the stories that we should be remembering and >> um that should be inspiring next generation Because if if more people were like that, like how would that change the world? How would that help change society for the better? That willingness to serve even at immense sacrifice or really >> you could almost say ultimate sacrifice. They both die. You said their daughter got it and died. >> Um son goes into hiding. That that's um >> it's not much more of a sacrifice you could give in the service of others. >> They lived what they believed. >> And there were others like that. There was also a temporary hospital in the old Lutheran church in the Brickerville area and some of the soldiers that were captured at Trenton were taken to Lancaster prison and then released and sent up to um Robert Coleman's Iron Foundry in the Burgerville area. And um of course some of them got sick and so they were taken to the old Lutheran church as a hospital and Christian Eevee was a Menanite man that had a mill nearby there and he took a lot of food. Um they had come in and confiscated a lot of the flour from his mill already and >> he had taken a lot of loss, >> but he still went and and helped. And in 1782, there were 14 Anabaptist men and three women Menanites who were arrested for feeding and lodges lodging prisoners that had escaped from the prison in Lancaster. These would have been British. And so you had prisoners in Lancaster and they were having a problem. Too many prisoners were escaping. Somebody's helping them. So they planted a spy in the prison and one night three men escaped and he went with them. Um there there was an old woman that came into the prison. She would bring apples and little things for the prisoners and she was deaf and you know they didn't they trusted her. But when these when this spy escaped with the three other men, this old woman met them. When they escaped from the prison, she met them and she told them where to go. She really wasn't deaf. [laughter] And so the spy went with them, still pretending to be a prisoner, and he made a list of all the places they stopped where people fed them and let them sleep for a night. And they were making their way across Lancaster County into Chester County going towards Philadelphia. Then he went back and gave reported this list of people that the Menanites that had helped these people escape. And so they were all all these 14 men and three women were arrested and taken to jail. Um there was a three-day trial for them and the women were released. Um the women, you know, these other there would have been other women, 14 men, there would have been other women, but the women were only arrested if they took the prisoners into the house to feed them. If they sat on the porch to eat, they excused them. But in the end, all the women were uh released, but the men were held until they paid some heavy fines. >> And Christian Zimmerman was one of those men. And he sent a petition to the court asking for mercy. Uh on the on the petition, his name is Carpenter, but that is just the English word for Zimmerman. and he wrote a letter uh this petition asking for mercy. And Peter Miller from the cloister sympathized with these men. And so he wrote a letter to Timothy Matlack um who was the secretary of the council and pleaded for clemency on their behalf and that was accepted and um their his fines were reduced to one-third. It was originally 50 pounds which gonna a lot of money. >> Yeah. but it was reduced to one/3 and so they were released then. So there's a lot of ways that people suffered losses and endured abuse. Um, one day some hungry soldiers came to a place where a wedding was happening and they ate up all the food that had been prepared for the wedding. [laughter] >> That's bizarre. >> That would be a wedding to be remembered. >> Whoa. Well, yeah, because we're still talking about it 250 years later. [laughter] >> Whoa. And in uh Skipback Township, that's in Montgomery County near Philadelphia. They were pretty well devastated. They were too close to Philly and their crops and animals were cleaned out and they took all the rail fences for firewood. >> Oh, whoa. That would that would hurt. Yeah, >> that would that's a lot of work to put those fences up and then put new ones up and it cost a lot of >> money to get firewood. >> Yeah. >> Like that's the thing about war. I mean it's it's so destructive >> to people and property and the land and the animals and just really any way you slice it. >> Yeah. >> And what you're describing here, you're giving just I mean >> this war went on for eight years. I'm sure there are I mean countless thousands of stories that could be told and are probably lost, you know, to history. You're giving us a sample and and I'm really seeing a picture of the Menites are kind of stuck in this weird middle spot and they're losing both directions. >> Yeah. >> Really? >> Yeah. But they would not change their minds. Mhm. >> They were loyal to what they believed and and kept that. >> I wonder if the how what influence the martyr's mirror had on this. >> It had to have some because that was >> a book that families usually had. I mean, if they were able at all to afford it, they would have a Bible and a march mirror >> and read them. How many people today have read the complete martyr's mar? >> I have it, but I haven't read it. >> Yeah. >> You know, it's a little intimidating. It's an enormous book, but I'm starting to realize like >> and it's only been more recently seeing how significant that book is for the movement. It really >> explains I mean this is how we live. These are the ways that we suffer for what we believe. And so if these people in the beginning very very beginning of America, I guess you could say, have that as as a guiding principle that yeah, I mean that that would affect how they respond to these things and maybe give them courage too for the things that they suffer, right? >> That was why they wanted to have it in German. >> Oh, sure. Okay. I see that. >> It was originally printed in the Dutch >> language. Dutch of Holland, not not Pennsylvania Dutch. >> Yeah. >> And the Menites couldn't most of them couldn't read Dutch and they wanted it in German so in their language so they could read it. >> That's significant. >> And it it did have a big impact on them. >> Mhm. But the way, you know, it was a tough time, but the way they responded, I think with faithfulness, endurance, uh, and loyalty and compassion, compassion for the suffering. And those are the those are the reactions we see to the conditions they were in and the pressure they were under. >> The Anabaptists loyalty to God impressed Dr. Benjamin Rosh of Philadelphia and in 1789 he said perhaps those Christians among us who refuse to bear arms for the purpose of shedding human blood may be preserved by divine providence as the center of a circle which shall gradually embrace all nations of the earth in a perpetual treaty of friendship and peace and that is our mission. That's our mission today >> to perpetuate treaty a treaty of friendship and peace >> worldwide. >> That would have been far enough after the war he have some time to reflect on it. >> And and that that man was not a Menanite. No. Or anything. >> No. >> A doctor in Philadelphia. I wonder, you know, he didn't just write those words one day for whatever. He he must have witnessed some things. >> What what he observed >> the response that he observed is what made him say that. >> Oh, it'd be interesting. I wish we could know like what were the things that he witnessed and saw that impacted him enough to say, "Oh, >> something special here." >> Yeah. you know. >> Well, there's one more story from that time per figured I want to tell if I have enough time. >> Yes, of course. Yeah. >> Uh, this is a story that was I have seen referred to many times in conservative Menanite publications over the years and it's a story that needs to be corrected. It's sort of like the myth of um George Washington kneeling in the snow. [laughter] >> The story in brief is that Michael Wittmann operated a tavern in Epherta. At that time Epherta was just a small village. He was the deacon in a This is a story that needs corrected. He was the deacon in the German Reformed Church in Epherta and Peter Miller was the pastor. When Peter Miller withdrew and joined the Seventh Day Baptists at the cloister, Wittmann was angry and from then on he abused Miller and u the members of the cloister. One evening, two men came to Wittman's tavern for supper and a bed for the night. He made some strong statements about his views on the war and his favor of the British. And these two men were spies and they arrested him for treason. He was taken to George Washington in Valley Forge, found to be guilty, sentenced to be hung. And when Peter Miller heard that, he walked all the way through the snow to Valley Forge and asked George Washington for a pardon. Washington told Peter Miller that he could not grant his request for his friend. And Peter Miller said, "My friend, he's my worst enemy." "What?" Washington exclaimed, "You have walked 60 miles to save the life of your enemy." That in my judgment puts the matter in a different light. I will grant you his pardon. So the pardon was written, signed by George Washington, given to Miller. He hurried to the place where Wittmann was supposed to be hung. He got there just as the noose was being put around his neck and he waved the pardon and told them to stop and Wittmann and Miller embraced each other and walked home as friends. That's a great story. It is a good story >> and there are a lot more colorful details that I haven't >> given here. It's a great example of non-resistance and the power Peter Miller believed in non-resistance and it's a great example of that and the power of forgiveness. Unfortunately, very little of it is true. M >> and I've seen this story and I also included it in loyalty test uh with a disclaimer >> because I wasn't sure and since then >> I've done a lot more research and found that this story is not true. It was published in 1856 in a pamphlet. Oh, >> that was advertising the Mountain Springs Hotel 78 years after Whittmann was arrested. This story was written. The author is identified as William Fontock, who actually had died two years before the story was printed. It was probably written by the owner of the hotel to bring poor to Africa. [laughter] >> But whoever wrote it had a vivid imagination. The story is full of errors. Um, and I'll just give a few of them. Peter Miller was a reform minister but in the Topahan area of Burks and Lebanon counties, not Epherta. In fact, he served in a reformed church that I can see from my house. >> Okay. He, Conrad Bisel, the founder of the effort of Cloister, um, traveled up to the Topah Hakan area and preached there and Peter Miller was influenced by his preaching and followed him to uh, the cloister [clears throat] and then after Bisel died, Peter Miller took his place as the leader and translated the mortars may and printed it. and so forth. Michael Wittmann was a tavern o owner in Epherta and there's a record of Michael Wittman tavern owner who abscounted to the English and there's a document in the Lancaster County Archives that states that he was held in the Lancaster prison and when he failed to appear for trial he was automatically convicted of high treason and he was in the Lancaster prison. He appealed to the council in Philadelphia for a pardon. It was granted and signed by Joseph Reed, president of the councelor, which is similar to the governor. >> The pardon is recorded in the Lancaster County deed book, and you can read it. And even though he was pardoned, his entire estate was seized. That was the penalty for treason. >> Ouch. >> So, um, Peter Miller wrote a letter, wrote in a letter that Wittmann had received pardon without a previous trial. So Wittman was never tried, >> not sentenced to be hung. There's no evidence Peter Miller played any part in obtaining that pardon, and George Washington was not involved. But we use this story >> as an example of non-resistance. And I think we need to know that that story wasn't true. >> And why would we use a story like that that's not really true when we have so many stories that are obviously true >> and we can tell those stories. >> That story has been told so often everybody believes it. >> It's believed to be true >> but it is not. So, I want to say let's not use that story >> because it's not true >> and tell the real stories instead. >> Tell the real stories. Like I said, I did include a short version of it in there in loyalty test, but if I was doing it today, I wouldn't because >> I I found the facts and um I wouldn't put it in. Christian Burkholder never heard that story. >> Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Speaking of Christian, what happens to him then? He serve, you know, he he continues on as bishop. >> I guess you said he wrote that book. >> Yeah. He had um a family. Um, he lived, if you know where the Fair Mount Nursing Home is, he lived first on one side of the hill and then moved to the other side near the covered bridge, you know, where the covered bridge is. So people can go, you know, you can still go to that spot in a way, you know, kind of >> Christian's descendants, the farm, the second farm, Christian's descendants still own that property, >> reduced in size from when he had it, but >> yeah, it's still farm there. Well, we've covered a lot of different pieces today, but was there anything in particular you wanted to cover that we didn't talk about? >> You know, this year we're celebrating 250 years of independence, but our Anabaptist faith is that's only half of our Anabaptist faith of 500 years. And it's our faith has proven to be reliable and worth standing up for >> and it it should be carefully guarded and maintained and passed on. We're in the same position they were. They didn't know what would happen if the United States won the war. We don't know what's going to happen. from this point on. But their example shows us that God is faithful and he will carry us through. He's the same today as he was yesterday. And he will be the same forever. And we can trust him. Whatever happens, whatever may come, God is faithful. And my favorite verse, I know whom I have believed and I'm persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. Whatever happens, I am committed and he is faithful. That's where we need to stand. >> I just want to say thank you for the work you put in to preserve these stories. and to be willing to share some of that with us today. Yeah. I h that faithfulness and like this is something that our people have been living for hundreds of years now, but it's it is easy to forget the story and you're a piece of helping to keep that story by giving like like preserving it in a way that that it can be remembered and yeah I just want to thank you for that work um and your willingness to share today as well. >> Thank you. I hope it was helpful. Yeah, this has been very interesting. >> Yeah, >> Roma told some of the story of what it was like for the Menanites in the early days of America being founded. And we'd actually talked about some similar things with John Ruth and he described some of the interaction between the first Menanites coming to America and the Native uh Americans that were already here. You can find that interview linked in the description below. Be sure to subscribe to this podcast and to share it with others. Thanks for listening and we'll catch you in the next episode. [music]