What AI Is Doing To Your Brain with Jim Kwik | Mind Pump 2395

Jim, welcome back. >> Thanks for having me, guys. It's been a little while. >> I love out of every every I'm on this book tour and this is like the best studio ever. >> Absolutely. Has so much like depth to it. I'm sure I'm sure everything here has like personal meaning. >> It does. And we're all we're definitely all four of us, as you could tell, what's behind everybody very different. I mean, that's one of the unique things about this uh our podcast, Friendship Business, is that uh as as good as we all get along, we couldn't be more different from each other. So, love that. I would absolutely love this. >> So, I got to ask you a question uh just to open this and it's about AI. Is it making us dumb? >> I think it has the potential to c certainly do that. Um so, you know, your your your your brain is like is like a muscle. Like it's an organ, but it's a muscle. It's use it or lose it. And I feel like AI is removing all the friction and the effort. Like you you wouldn't you wouldn't go to the gym and have your friends lift weights for you. >> Right. >> Right. But it's kind of like what AI is doing. It's kind of doing the heavy lifting and we don't get the effort. But you know when you're building cognitive reserve or or cognitive like fitness, you know, we need it requires effort, right? Neuroplasticity, you know, is our brain's ability to remodel itself, but it's solely based on challenge, right? You build a muscle through novelty and and nutrition. Same thing with your your mental muscles. So my my challenge my big challenge with with AI and I we all use it, right? It amplifies and it scales but it could only it only amplifies and scales what people bring to it like their own natural human intelligence. So I always I I think human intelligence is is going to is more important than artificial intelligence by far. Like somebody could use AI it's no longer a competitive advantage because everybody has access to it just like information is not a competitive advantage. We all have access to it. Um somebody could use AI to make a nice social media post. somebody else could use it to make the next, you know, huge wellness fitness app, you know, a billion dollar venture. But it's the human that that makes the difference. >> You know, my my thing is uh there's this term called cognitive offloading. And that's where, you know, last time I was here, we talked about digital uh and I wrote about this in Limitless in 2020 that force super villains to your mind. Uh digital uh deluge, which is the overload, right? Which is why it's so important to be able to learn faster, read faster, everything. catch up, keep up, get ahead. Digital distraction, which is just getting worse, right? Every every like, share, comment, cat, video, app, notification, social media alerts is driving us to distraction. That's why focus is like your attention. We live in the age of attention. This is the number one currency. Digital dementia, which is outsourcing our brains, like our memory to our devices. You know, our devices keep our to-dos, our calendars, our grocery list, phone numbers. And then I turned the fourth uh horsemen as digital deduction back then. And that's where it's actually thinking for us. And that's that's the big challenge I think. Well, imagine a society that's offloading and cognitively surrendering their thinking to AI. I mean, think about what happens to our own critical thinking, our ability, our judgment. I mean, it makes you so susceptible. Imagine a civilization or society that can't think for themselves. Think about the misinformation. think about uh how we could be easily manipulated by other people's you know authorities, agendas, marketing, media and everything. Um, and then even if you know that happens, like then even if everyone's thinking the same way, then everything they're using AI is going to be derivative. It's going to be so generic, right? I mean, you even see this now with the AI slop that's out there, >> you know, that just like a lot of noise, you know, it's like empty calories like you eat like I feel like today we we, you know, we talk about in society, especially Americans, the overfed, undernourished, but what about mentally? We're like overfed with all these empty calories from social media, you know, doom scrolling and there's no there's very little nourishment. >> Yeah. You know what's interesting about what you're saying, Jim, is when I think of um how we outsourced activity. >> Okay. So, um we did that a long time ago. >> Um being sedentary is a default. Being active is something you have to seek out. So, one of the the side effects of that is really poor physical health. >> Yeah. I don't think people realize that not exercising their brains, right? Not thinking and remembering uh can cause uh mental health issues and actually deterioration of the brain. I think what we think is, oh, I don't remember phone numbers anymore. But those neural networks are gone. >> And if you do that enough times, uh you actually start to get some >> you get atrophy. How is this different? Um how is this different than what we've seen historically when the calculator came, the computer came? I mean even before that like I mean date back to spoken word the date back to humans 300,000 years ago communicating with grunts and you know started using words and everything to the year that's 300,000 BC to 3000 BC until like people started writing like people would have to pass on stories you know from memory like the whole Odyssey or the Iliad was was was tradition yeah absolutely >> through through parables everything before the written word word and so technology has always changed the way we think. Um when we started writing things, we started externalizing our memory. Uh printing presses allowed you to share ideas, you know, more, you know, uh at scale a little bit. Not like today, but libraries, you know, calculators and not that I want. The other day I was at the dinner and uh they brought the bill and it was 10 of us and I four people took out their phones to divide by 10, you know. No, you think it's just a joke, but you see some of those things like but that's the challenge. It's just like and some people say like that's very convenient. Absolutely. But you don't want it to be crippling like the like math has a certain value in terms of even base logic, right? Like I feel like our society would be really much better off if we just had common sense and basic, you know, basic logic um and common sense. But um GPS, if a third party device tells you when and where to turn, >> we didn't need that, you know, before. I'm not even talking about hunter gatherers. I'm talking about like before GPS, >> we'd have to use, excuse me, your visual spatial intelligence. You didn't need to know where you are in time and space. But now, you know, people don't even know like the other day I was in Uber and we went through the worst way just cuz he was following this thing and I just needed to be like dropped off right here. But we just default our thinking. And so yeah, technology and then with AI, it's totally I mean the industrial age, what did it do? It it made us more sedentary because machines are doing the work for you. And I feel like today, you know, there's a hidden cost to modern convenience. Like the whole world is optimized for comfort, you know, and then what happens to your muscles, physical and mental, where you don't have to strain or stress or challenge, but you know, the primary rule here is with challenge comes change, right? you know, with struggle comes strength, but we don't have that deliberate difficult, you know, discomfort you physically or mentally. >> It feels like it was um, you know, historically almost like a a slow death or slow adaptation, but with AI, it almost feels like it's coming on so much faster. And so, which makes me think that the repercussions of it could be far more dangerous or outlasting or egregious. >> I would agree. The other thing that pops to mind too, Jim, is while you're saying this, uh, past innovations, uh, did not reduce our, uh, communication, contact, collaboration with people. >> Yeah. >> Like current innovations are. So current innovations, one of the biggest drawbacks in my opinion is people are seeing each other less. >> So I Do Dash, I do everything online, I don't go to the store. >> Uh, and that I know the data on that very well. um when you're not around people, >> you're not nearly as removal of human connection. >> Yes. >> And that that that's like, you know, we had on our podcast um you know, the the director of that that Harvard study, the that 80 year old that 80 uh year plus longitudinal study on happiness and longevity and they said fitness very important, diet very important. Uh what's just as important is is connection, >> you know, and it wasn't just your like your romantic partner. It was the depth of connections because just again as hunter gatherers, we're social creatures, right? Like even like a human being, you you ever been around like a calm person like a friend, family member, and you just feel calm like your your your nervous system regulates to that person. I mean I mean we get courage sometimes from you know someone we care about their their belief in us, right? We're we're social creatures, you know? We also have these marinurons where we're constantly imitating the people around us. That's why that phrase, you know, we're the average of the five people we spend the most time with, you know, fitness- wise, health-wise, financially, and and and other because we start mirroring imitating the words, the actions, the thoughts, the character, the habits, you know, whether someone works out is less to do with their genetics and more do their friends work out, you know, eat right, read, study, entrepreneurs, whatever, whatever that that is. Do you think, and I'm sure I think I know what the answer is because this is kind of what you do, but today if someone uh wanted to be physically fit, they have to >> for the most part uh schedule workouts. >> Yeah. >> Go to a place or >> designated facility for this. >> It has to be organized. I got to organize uh something that allow that that where I where I'm physically fit, where I train my body because if I don't my my daily life, none of it's in there. It's just not there. >> Yeah. Do you think we're going to have to do this with our our brain power, with our mental health, where we actually have to >> I mean, I would love to have these these mental gyms, right? Like uh you know, the these brain gyms if if if you will, but I mean, obviously, you know, like I think so there's definitely I mean there's huge connection between physical activity and and and uh and and mental performance, right? Like you know, we know all the benefits. I'm sure you covered this a lot, you know, in terms of resistance training and what it does for the brain, all the benefits, the BDNF, the the dopamine, the serotonin, the endorphins. I mean, we are the primary reason you have a brain is to control your movement. That's the number one reason we have brains. Um, and as your body moves, your brain grooves, and so physical activity is absolutely paramount. Like I, um, I have a family member years ago, uh, older senior, she she broke her hip, and when she was confined to a wheelchair, her mind followed. Yes. you know and she didn't she unfortunately passed shortly after that but mobility is absolutely key that's why leg strength you guys know this is so very important es especially for cognitive health and and and performance once you lose mobility >> and then that's why the some of the top activities outside of working out and and going to the gym um will extend your life like raet sports reaction time thinking speed um you know strategy memorization uh ballroom dancing right and notice all these activities also puts your mind in your muscle but it also social activities. >> You do it with a partner also as well which is huge benefit. So, you know, like there's this term called cognitive reserve. Like you could have two, you know, seniors and they could be biologically very close, you know, their brains. Um, but one is independent, you know, and the other one is losing their memory, you know, they they're very forgetful. They they need assistance. Um, and and what what what scientists are thinking is that cognitive reserve cognitive reserve is like um is the difference. It's it's like a retirement account. It's like you're putting you're investing and how you build that retirement account like we did we would do financially to be better at when we're older is through new learnings. It's all it's all physical activity, mental activity, and social activity. >> Jim, I just today brought up uh an old study uh and it specifically speak to cognitive reserve. It's a it's it was study done in 1986 >> on over 600 nuns. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And the reason why they they they picked them was because uh they lived such similar lives. So there wasn't a lot of things they had to control necessarily. >> And what they found, there were a few things they found, but there were a few nuns in there particular. One woman, I think her sister sister Mary I think was her name. >> She was 101 years old, great cognitive performance. >> She died shortly after because of the study. All of them donated their bodies to the science. So they looked at her brain. She had beta amalloid plaques like somebody who had advanced Alzheimer's. But her cognitive test did not reflect this. And the the way that they explained this was that she had tremendous cognitive reserve. Yeah. It gave her that cognitive resiliency uh that allowed her to maintain independence even though she had all of the telltale physical uh you know symptoms or physical you know attributes of Alzheimer's which is pretty wild. >> That's so wild. I mean because we get all like we all have like cancer cells and all these things in our body but you know whether it gets expressed it's kind of like like I was I was just uh talking to Max Lugabir and he was talking about how like for Alzheimer's like your genetics loads the gun but your lifestyle would pull the trigger right and so we all have these things you know in our physiology in our bodies but it's like you know cognitive reserve is is huge the study I actually have I have a um an actual copy of that was on the cover time magazine back then and I have a I have a copy so you knew about the study is called aging with grace >> which is so which is so amazing but they were having discourse you know debates they were having deep conversations reading a lot writing and it added years to their life but also life to their years which is which is is just huge that's cognitive reserve right being active like you know cuz cuz what's the ultimate is cog if you're cognitively rigid besides the longevity aspects and just having your faculties when you're older they Even businesses, you know, a cognitively rigid uh, you know, business is like Kodak, right? They they they invented the the backbone technology for digital photography and they shelfd it, you know, and they then they're extinct. Blockbuster video, I mean, we can go on and on. That's cognitive rigidity. Cognitive flexibility is your ability to be pliable, like be able to do mental parkour, be able to, you know, be flexible fast, limber, you don't break, you bend. Um, and I think that's a lost art, you know, and like building cognitive, especially when most people are consuming rather than creating. And then the the algorithm now is you don't I don't know like I'm not on social media a lot, but I don't I tend not to see a lot of people I follow more of whatever people engage with. But the challenge is whatever you engage with, you see more of. And so then you're in this echo chamber because you're only seeing the perspective of your the stuff you're engaging with. And you never have flexibility because you never get to see, you know, the the the opposing view, right? Like even using AI to point out your blind spots, I think is incredibly valuable. You know, some people would say intelligence is measured by, you know, be able to change your opinion based on new data, you know, and be able to be flexible like that because a lot of people aren't because their whether their ego is built into it, they spent this amount of years of study, it's part of their identity and they stay rigid and that that that's a challenge. I think in an a I think we live in the age of adaptation. You know, ultimately human beings our bodies adapt, right, to stressors, right? There's you know there's uh there's heat adaption right temperature adaption like it's built in nature like you introduce we were talking about my our young my young kids we have a three and a half and a one and a halfyear-old but you introduce them to soils and bacteria and then their immune system is more robust so I talk about something called cognitive anti-fragility where I think cognitive res resilience is like bouncing back to where you like under stress you bounce back to a default setting cognitive anti-fragility for me is bouncing forward It's like like like like you're building a muscle. It adapts and then what was hard becomes easy and then you pursue more more hard. But I don't think people are mentally challenging themselves because of technology is doing a lot of the lifting for us. >> Give me some examples of of some uh some exercises or things someone can do to improve their their cognitive fragility or to become not so fragile. >> Yeah. And so I would be I think deliberate discomfort is so very important in a world that's optimized for comfort. that's optimized for convenience like you mentioned Door Dash and Uber like if I if I if I have to go 10 blocks away to run an errand at the bank or whatever and and I call lift it that's technology like AI it makes it's very convenient but then I don't get my steps in right an elevator if your apartment or you know office is on the eighth floor an elevator is an early form it's a form of technology but then you don't take the stairs right so I feel like I I don't think that AI I you know and specifically cuz that's doing most of the lifting for most people like I was always my my rule even as I use artificial intelligence is to build before I borrow. I want to build my own intelligence before I borrow you know from AI. But certain things that you could do to increase your your cognitive anti-fragility and your cognitive flexibility. Let's talk about flexibility is studying some like studying something outside your field is incredibly valuable. like having hobbies. You like you notice some of the highest achievers, they have they have dedicated other interests because that allows them to be more creative and problem solve and build and innovate because they have more references and distinctions from from other things. I noticed that when I had CL I used I used to own a training studio and at one point towards the end I had these really high performing clients and it was interesting to me because these were people who had very demanding jobs like it was you know brain surgeon or heart heart surgeon >> and they also were like classically trained pianists or I had one or something. >> Yeah. I had one guy was an anesthesiologist and he's like he was a he got trained uh as a bartender uh just so he could learn how to make craft like it's like hobbies and I'm like man where do you get the time to do this but it must be a part >> huge huge I mean it's like like the whole like Da Vinci like he was a scientist and he was an artist he could juggle he has all this other other interests and I feel like you know to be flexible you need perspective you know and you need to be able to have distinctions um you become less one-dimensional there's all the great research a book called range um you know about a generalist the power of a generalist you could specialize in your career in your studies um become a master in that but still being a generalist and having base knowledge about a lot of things allows you to be more more whole um so like yeah or even if you're going to use AI you know have it have it create an argument for what you're proposing you know in terms of your beliefs you know like create an incredibly strong argument counter to to challenge ourselves but I feel like you It's important to have what's the phrase it's like strong opinions loosely held, right? So you could change cuz who wants to be I I I doubt anyone listening here has the same exact beliefs and thoughts and you know as they did >> 10 years ago. Hopefully they don't, right? Otherwise where's where's the growth, right? Hopefully we have some beliefs, you know, that we would we'd be embarrassed to even talk about, you know, otherwise if we're exactly the same. It's just like when somebody says, "Oh, I have 30 years experience in fitness or health or sales." and you you really have a conversation and because you guys have distinctions in those areas like maybe they only have one year experience that they've repeated 30 times and there's no growth. They just kind of mailed it in every single time because it your brain you know that is 2% of your body mass but it is an energy hog. It uses 20% of the energy and the vitality. You know I work with chess players and they could burn upwards of 6 thou 67,000 calories just sitting like this all day. you know because your your brain use and that's why people don't think because it it is it is high energy activity you know for people and then if AI is going to do it for you you know and then the other crisis besides cognitive offloading you know and cognitive surrendering you know where we're not using those those muscles anymore I think is an identity shift you know like what happens like there's this barbell economy where the weights are on both ends it's like um like that AI AI might not affect as much uh leadership on this side or you know things that require more physical act HVAC massage therapists hair stylists right but the barbell here the thin part that's really going to be hit coders right uh visual designers graphic designers like here mean I just saw what was it a radiologists like that like AI could detect it better like a thousand times better than the human eye so like what happens you spent years of all this schooling and you know, 10, 20 years in your career doing this thing and all of a sudden AI could do it faster and more accurately and better. Then there's an it's an identity crisis. It's like uh I was at the Super Bowl. I do stuff for the uh the the NFL alumni and like what happens when somebody's trained or or or or vets, right? Like what happens when you are focused in this and you have a community, a team or in the military, right? And then all of a sudden you're moving on to something else. >> Yeah. And then that that's going to be a big challenge with with AI because it's changing the way we work, the way we live, and how we see ourselves. I mean, where's what where's your purpose? So many people identify themselves as their career. >> Mhm. Right. >> Yeah. Two thing two things that that come to mind. One, as you're talking about ways to improve your or be anti-fragile cognitively. I'm thinking like one of the best ways to do this is surround yourself with people uh and talk with them, especially people who might have differing opinions or people who who enjoy discussing without getting offended. I think that's great because you're going to automatically get hit with things you can't counter >> uh right out the gates or that you don't anticipate and it's going to give you it's going to kind of help strengthen uh that muscle in you. >> So, that comes first. And the second qu the the question I have for you >> in in regards to AI, you said you use it. I'm curious how you use AI. like what do you what do you specifically use AI for >> um in the ways that you know don't damage your cognitive strength? the same way that I that I as a memory trainer, you know, remember names and facts and figures and all that stuff, right? I like I would do even when I started and this is my, you know, 53, I'm like almost 35 years, you know, as a as doing focus exercises or I would do memory exercises for example. Yeah. You know, people forget what they read. they forget like what room that the hotel room the room number like I would I would practice memorizing a license plate when I'm driving or I would practice memorizing a grocery list even though I could you know easily write it down you know I would memorize uh you know something simple like the seed phrase whatever it happens to be so those those reps count right just like you know when you steal reps you know uh throughout the day you're making your coffee and you do and you do some squats and you're triggered that way right you steal those reps same thing with those mental reps I was always looking for opportunities to hone my memory cuz I didn't want it to just kind of fade, right? Especially cuz, you know, my my grandmother passed Alzheimer's when I was seven and my brain injury and my learning difficulties with AI. I um I created an acronym for you guys cuz I'm I like acronyms cuz if someone's listening like they're driving and they and they're working out, they can't write it down. So before I go to AI, I'll do I'll do certain things. And I I said you build your own intelligence before you borrow from AI. And so the B stands for brainstorm. So before I even go to chatbt claw, whatever it is, I'll brainstorm my own ideas before before, right? I'll kind of get a little mental warm up around this. >> The U is understand. And I this is specifically what I mean. >> I think people are optimizing a lot of their like we ask AI for with these prompts, right? We engage, but we before we ever did that, we were prompting our own mind with the questions we're asking all the time, right? Does this does this make sense? how do I learn this? You know, how do I reach this goal? Whatever it is. >> And I feel like a lot of times we're optimizing for the wrong question, >> right? Like it's very different with like, oh, how do I hit, you know, how do I get, you know, whatever amount of followers or whatever, as opposed to like, I don't know, Peter Teal's book 0 to1. How do I hit my 10ear goal in the next 6 months? It forces you ask a new you ask a new question. You have to you can't work harder, right? There's a great book uh 10x is easier than 2x basically saying because 2x you could you could effort your way to 2x right in terms of money or whatever you you do but 10x you can't possibly effort that so it forces you to think differently about it right to get there and so understand means like really understand what the problem is and define the problem Einstein and I don't know like how people credit this and it's attributed to Einstein that if he had an hour to solve a problem he would spend 50 minutes really understanding the problem defining the real problem right and so I would say understanding so I would be thinking about the problem myself and before I prompt it I'll just get clear on what that what that is the I and build is imagine and imagine you know Einstein said again imagination is more powerful than knowledge this is where I would come up with three answers to that question before I go to AI to just give it to me right um and so like and I and I would ask I would do thought experiments too like a question I ask myself all the time let's say I'm dealing with a problem or whatever. And I would say like, how would a 5-year-old look at this problem? Like, how would they solve it? Because it's often the elusive obvious, right? Or how would somebody 10 times smarter than me, you know, look at this problem? Or an individual like a mentor in my life, I would think about how would they look at this problem? Um, and so I feel like that's very useful in terms of imagining solutions to your problem. And then the L in build is leverage AI. And you know then then you could go to AI and but I I don't give it I I personally don't go there for answers. I I use it as a more augmented intelligence where it's like a creative partner. I'll I'll use it more to say like to stress test like stress test my idea >> to point out the blind spots or the cognitive biases here or to argue against what I'm brainstorming or thinking about because I feel like that's because I think a lot of AI is just placating to you. It can make the dumbest person feel smart because it's just like oh what a great idea you know like and it just but it's not and so so much misinformation how that that intelligence is aggregated through Reddit through I mean just like I don't it's just so I would say um leverage AI you know after you do that and then the D and build it's then you decide because I just want to remind everyone's listening because I'm sure everyone's using AI it's AI could compute and process information faster than human will ever be able to that that's just fact. All right, I'm not going to debate that. >> But ultimately, human beings, their human intelligence have to decide what this information means, which of this is important, right? What to do with this information? Because also AI doesn't have any responsibility. It has no stakes in like what it's giving you as opposed to humans where, you know, we decide something and then we're responsible for that outcome. So, I feel like and also AI, they're using it for therapy, they're using it for coaching, and I totally get that. And we have that in our programs that we've trained our you know in our speed reading memory like we've downloaded all the you know all of the stuff that I've created. Um you know but I think one of the challenges like AI doesn't have bedside manner. It could feain empathy. It could feain compassion but it doesn't know how to like console a grieving child. It doesn't know what it's like to ask for forgiveness. It doesn't know what it's like to have heartbreak or anything else like that. It hasn't had a human experience. So it could faint it but it's synthetic, right? And so I just feel like my optimistic view, this is my optimistic view because and this is really weird cuz on the on the way here, the person next to me uh on the plane was watching uh this movie Wall-E >> and this reference was so sad. It it was it was incredibly sad and I didn't I I wasn't I didn't have the earphones in but all all I I remember seeing cuz I haven't seen it since it came out is just this future right >> where it's like everybody is morbidly obese. They're sitting in these pods that are just kind of going everywhere. Don't go there. >> Yeah. And then the one the scene I saw was like one of these guys fell out of his pod, you know, and then he needed like five robots to pick him up because he couldn't he didn't have the ability to get back in there. And then right in front of the guys, everyone there is like screens, you know, and then a big gulp of soda or whatever happens to be there. And that that's a scary that's a scary future. My optimistic view is because everything's driven by money. I would say in the workplace, my optimistic view is if we can't out compete process like AI, then it's going to force us to be more human. I think I think one of the most interesting conversations to have, you know, today is that I think we're living in this story where how do you remain deeply human? What does it mean to be human in a world of AI, right? Art of an age of AI. And I feel like it's going to force us to get better at the things that make us human because, you know, I'm all for AI automating things like lower task things that I don't want I don't want to deal with like, you know, my my inbox, my calendar, like all those kind of things. But you know only if it frees up energy and focus to do like other stuff right it's like like we do our annual event for community for ours for uh 19 years now and uh all limitless live and and you years ago we had um Rod Rodenberry who's the son of Gene Rodenberry who created Star Trek right and you know I saw him there and I brought him on for fireside chat because his father had this vision of the future that with technology right you had a triquarter that could diagnose any health challenge allges. You had replicators that can make food. There's no disease. There's there's total abundance cuz it can make everything. So money is just does only need money. So what are they doing? They're out there exploring. They're doing higher level, you know, things with their energy, time, and and attention. So what I'm hoping for in a world of AI to be relevant, to be compensated in the workplace, it'll force us to be more human. And that's an acronym that I put that I put in this book. So H is is H is hard. I I really feel like leaning into emotional quotient, empathy, storytelling, uh compassion, everything that makes us more human. EQ in a lot of ways is more important than than IQ, right? The U is understanding. Going back to asking, you know, like why, right? Understanding, uh, curiosity, you know, comprehension, you know, like real deep understanding. I feel like that's a human quality. Um, I think, uh, the M is meaning, like purpose, like going back to identity. I think people should be really lean to purpose especially because purpose having some kind of purpose I'm not saying just life purpose >> it gets you through adversity. >> Oh yeah >> right. It gets you through hardship. It gets you through difficult time having a real reason like you know like you know who's counting on you to show up today either clients or your kids or or whatever it is. So I think people are going to really have to focus on what lights them up you know and gives them drive and fire. Um the A in human is adaptation. I I feel like the people are going to win the competitive edge is the only constant. Nobody knows what the future's going to look like 10 20 years from now. They're just they just don't. Um but change there'll definitely be changed. So our ability to adapt like human like human beings are good at I think that's our superpower. Our ability to learn things unlearn things that are no longer true or updated to to to relearn things also. um to be to be cognitively flexible, you know, in in the marketplace, but also flexible with our our bodies and our minds. And then the N in human, I use the word nexus to fit the acronym, but it's it's all the social skills, leadership, sales, influence, coaching, you know, parenting, all the things that the social aspect because it's not just your neurological networks, it's it's your social networks, >> right? And so I feel like if we start leaning into that and we start developing our judgment, our curiosity, our creativity, you critical thinking, I feel like then we could usher in in an in an AI revolution or evolution, you know, a new like human renaissance where it would force us to be able to do more things, the science and the art of that. >> I share that optimistic view. Um although I do believe uh because I think it's human nature that we'll go through a lot of pain first. Because I think to your point uh if AI goes the direction we think it is and we have this kind of Star Trek type future where things can be made for us there's the money becomes less important >> everybody can uh 3D print what they want or have what they want or go where they want uh it will force us into looking at purpose but what will come first is higher depression higher suicide because they'll think that consuming more of that stuff they get is going to solve it they'll find it's an empty hole. Because technology is just making life so easy. Like it's not like like we have control temperature, control light. I mean everything is so easy. You could order on app. You never you're right. You never have to see another human being. And so I think there's a big cost for that, you know, cuz cuz the thing the when we're looking at first principles and like nature like you you can't buy a fit body. You have to you have to earn it right every single day. You can't buy a great relationship, right? You you can't buy the things that really matter in in your life. You know, it requires effort. So whether it's your body or your brain or your business, whatever it is, you know, and we can't be upset by the results we didn't get from the work we didn't do, you like so many people are are, you know, doing this this mental masturbation. They they love like learning on podcast. They're listen and and I'm calling people out cuz I'm a coach, but listening, but they hear the same thing, but they're not doing anything with it. And that's the challenge. And from a memory standpoint, like I'll make this really, really clear. There's this forgetting curve. You learn something and two days later 80% of it's gone. You hear it on a podcast, you read in a book, you you go to a conference or whatever fitness event, whatever it happens to be, you coach, it's gone. And the reason, one of the reasons why it's gone is you're not using it. And the mind will prune and delete cuz whatever you whatever you focus on and you do and you say and you think and you you you behave, then you're telling your nervous system, this is important. Let's preserve this, right? But if you're not doing something with that information, then it's just going to get rid of it because you're only going to strengthen the things that that are important to you. You know, it's a good hack with that is uh you know, when you learn something to talk about it, teach it >> to talk teach it, talk around, teach method, >> fumble it around. I just I I mean, I got I got my trainers today that I'm sitting down and I'm coaching and teaching and one of the things I I talk about when as a young trainer when I knew very little uh and I'd learned something, I immediately turned right around and taught it to the next person I saw. And I definitely fumbled it around and it didn't sound very good, but by the second, the third, the fourth time, it had become mine. And it's like I think so many people are are the mental masturbation comes from fear. Fear of how our peers are going to judge us. Fear of not going to get it right or say it right or do it right. And I people that can get over that and unlock that or accept I'm going to suck at it. I'm going to fumble it. I don't have a photograph. Whatever and get over that and teach it, say it, uh, and repeat it. It then becomes part of you, you know. >> Yeah. They they um Richard Feman, you know, they people attribute to like the Fman, you know, uh effect or or the the explanation effect. When you learn it, you learn it and when you teach it, you learn get to learn it twice. >> Like if everybody could relisten to this episode and but this time when you're listening, think about how you would give a TEDex talk next week about it. >> You would focus way different, right? you would own that information because it's it's active learning, you know, cuz learning is not a spectator sport any any different than than lifting or anything else that's worthwhile. But yeah, when we teach something, we get to learn it better. And so like, you know, even with kids, right, you could have your kids explain what what they're learning, you know, and then it it also shows you your gaps in knowledge, too. And also, I feel like when you teach it, it starts to become more of your identity in terms of, okay, I know this, I know this, I'm an I'm becoming an expert this. And I I really think the the sequence is you learn it, you teach it. You you you learn it, you live it, and and you teach it because like I have a rule for every hour I spend learning something, you know, I don't know where I came up with this, but it was just like just for me made sense. For every hour I spend reading something or listening to a podcast, whatever, I want to spend an equal hour applying it, right? because I I I feel and people schedule their workouts but they're not scheduling their implementation or their application like somebody going and reading a great book on I mean and honestly there's a book that could solve anyone's problem that someone wrote somewhere that they spend years you know going through mistakes and their research and and experience and you don't have to spend those thousands of dollars and time and everything to do that. So I think reading is is great. Reading is to your mind would exercise your body. Great neurological, you know, cognitive uh training for yourself, but somebody could read a book and not apply it. Their life is no different than somebody who's illiterate who couldn't read the book to begin with. So you know that that's that's the challenge. I I feel that you're right. People get this dopamine from learning something new, but they don't apply it. And I and I really think like how I define intelligence in the new book is and this is functional for me. It's not IQ. that that that's that's so antiquated. It's not a standardized test that you take when you're eight and that's your potential when you're 88. That doesn't even make any sense, right? Because of neuroplasticity and our brain's ability to grow. For me, intelligence, people say it's pattern recognition. It's your ability to be flexible with thought. I feel like functionally somebody is intelligent. It if they're intelligent, they're use is intelligence is using your brain and directing your mind to create the life you want. >> So using your brain, which is the hardware, your mind directing it, the software, right, to create the life you want. Meaning somebody could know everything about fitness, but if they're not fit, how intelligent are they? Yeah. >> Right. Somebody can know everything, read every research or every book on wealth and investing and whatever, you know, and but if their bank account doesn't reflect that, how intelligent is that person, right? And so I feel the life we live are the lessons we we teach. So for for me, you know, and we live in this kind of expert economy where I feel like you learn something and then you have to live it, right? You have to practice what you post. Um, and then and then you get and then you teach it also as well as as well. And so cuz then like I can roll out of bed like you guys can also and you could talk about this cuz you live it, right? Because you show up differently with a level of congruency cuz nowadays I feel like people are their BS meter is really sophisticated. Like you could detect AI stuff, right? I had somebody on my podcast. I I I usually always publish shows, right? We've done nowhere near as many as you have, but we've done we've done 500 plus episodes. >> Um I had somebody on and it was recommended to me because you know team was showing all these they have the great Instagram. I'm not going to mention who it is but they have great Instagram posts very like wow this is why everything's like lands. I was like I love to have a conversation about this get them on person is like dumb as heck. No, no, I'm I'm I'm not I don't want it's not it's not a judgment, but clearly AI or somebody else was writing this stuff for them because I asked like these layup questions and it was just >> had an experience like that before >> and I can't pull it out. But that but that's cognitive surrender like like AI is writing people's books and their posts and everything else. So they're not it's like that MIT study that a lot of people were talked about. MIT did a a study with their students and they had them write essays and they put them in group A, B, and C. And group A used chat GBT to write their essays. Group B used Google. Group C didn't use either. And then they C they they they scan their brains to see which one was, you know, more cognitively engaged. And obviously C was most engaged cuz they had to they had no help, right, from technology. Um and group A just was not engaged at all, right? Cuz they didn't have to earn it. Just like if they were if you look at people's like the intensity of their muscles lifting weights or whatever, they it would they would lifting any weights. But when they tested them on their comprehension and their memory about that subject, group A hardly remembered any of it because they didn't have to earn it. Right? And neuroplasticity again it's it's it's the whole basis of like this word neuroplasticity is challenge equals change and my my my challenge is everybody wants convenient and they want comfort. And life is difficult for one of two reasons. You either leave your comfort zone, you start that business, you start that relationship, you work out, you know, you study, become an expert, or life is very difficult if you stay in your comfort zone, >> you know, because you stay there. Yeah. >> I I think uh I think AI could be uh one of two things. Either it could be incredibly stimulating. >> Uh it could strengthen your cognitive function, it could help you become smarter, or it could go in the other direction and just do things for you. I mean, I I I've used the AI. One of the things I've done with AI is because it's an incredible synthesizer of information. It's the best we've ever seen. That's what it is. >> And we've never had in history uh something that was able to synthesize comments, reviews, and forums and compile it and put it together to give me a consensus. We never had that before. We had studies. >> So, what I've done to learn certain things is now I've taken studies and then I've taken people's reviews. Now there's, you know, millions of them, hundreds of millions of them online >> plus studies. >> And I've taken anecdotes, lots of them, studies, I've put them together, find the commonalities, have AI sort out, and I'm coming up with some crazy >> uh conclusions and ideas around certain things. And it's very stimulating >> because I'm prompting, I'm going through, and I'm say, "Okay, uh, are those commonalities uh in lots of things? Find the two things that seem to be standing out and then I'll find that." >> I love that. >> Oh, and it's remarkable. Well, you're using it. You're using it like you said like a partner versus like a an answer which I I think a majority of people use it almost like a sophisticated Google search, right? They just give me this, you know, prompt it like that versus >> you are pulling in ideas and theories and together you're you're formulating an argument with it as a partner versus a tell me what's better, you know, which is how most people >> I'll be specific with you because I had fun with it a while ago and I was messaging these guys about it. So I got on there and I'm very fascinated for a long time ago. I got really fascinated with the science of canabonoids and tarpen. This there's a personal story. I had a family member had cancer and so I got into how it could potentially help her. So I I had some base knowledge and so I said um what do the different canabonoids show in in the studies that they can help uh you know cause produce? So I got this list. What about the different turppins? And I got some ideas around there. Then I said, uh, what do the reviews say on the best strains of cannabis for pain relief? Give me the top five. I got the top five. Then I said, what of these top five strains, what commonalities do you see with the combinations of canabonoids and tpins? And they gave me an answer. I said, of these commonalities, which ones are common in all the strains and which ones seem to stand out the most? And what I ended up getting was a tarpine canabonoid combination that probably is really good for pain. But it's this really fun process of going through and asking these questions and I think you could do that with AI. >> You just found the most downloaded health, fitness, and entertainment podcast in history. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode, Jim Quick, is back on the podcast, the learning memory, and brain expert. He wrote a new book, Limitless Daily. By the way, you can find him on Instagram, Jimquick. That's Kwi K. By the way, with his new book, if you pre-order it at limitlessdaily.com, they will throw in over $470 of free bonus gifts. All you have to do is pre-order it, and this is available wherever books are sold on September 8th, but get it ahead of time. This episode's brought to you by our sponsor, Element. So, this is an electrolyte powder that you add to your water. It doesn't have any sugar. It also is not artificially flavored. It's flavored naturally, and it tastes amazing. Now, here's the difference with Element. beside uh over other electrolyte powders, they have a thousand milligrams of sodium per serving. Why do you need that much sodium? Because if you need electrolytes, that's what you need the most. Potassium and magnesium are important, but it's the sodium that prevents cramps and headaches. It's what gives you those pumps. It's what helps you perform better in your workouts. It's especially important for people on low carb diets, people who fast, people who eat whole foodbased diets. If you sweat a lot or you work in the sun in the hot sun, electrolyte supplementation can make a huge difference. And if you go through our link, drinklement.com/mindpump. On that link, you'll get a free sample pack of their most popular drink mix flavors thrown in for free with any purchase. We also have a sale. Buy 1 get one free with the top 10 maps workout programs. Buy one get one free. It's ending soon. Go to mapsbogo.com. Here we go. Yeah. And I I think and the difference that makes a difference is your human intelligence compared to somebody else that's that that doesn't have those distinctions or the interests or the discipline or the life experience and references that you have because you're interacting with it different. And that's what I mean about, you know, people leaning into their human intelligence being more important than AI because again AI can amplify >> and scale like if somebody is confused and incompetent it it's going to and unclear it's going to amplify that right it's going to make you a bit more of that as opposed to somebody who's competent clear concise you know has character then it'll amplify that also as well. Well, I I'll share an opposite story of the usage that I've shared on here before with you guys is I have a family member who uh was taking HRT and the way he prompted it uh of you know can HRT be dangerous for me was the and so of course what does the AI do? It searches all the probabilities of how it could be dangerous and so he sent me this thing like I have to get off this is terrible for me and I'm like >> that is such a stupid way to prompt that. And you could flip that on its head and say literally the opposite. how is it positive for me? And it'll give you a list. And so, >> so then you have people that are coming to conclusions because they're prompting it so unintelligently and then they're taking that answer as the truth and it's like, wo, you got to understand how to prompt this correctly if you want it to give you a a less bias, but it's giving you a bias based off the way you're prompting it. So, it's going to be interesting to see how that, you know, separate like how many people will have the intelligence to approach it the way Sal is approaching it and how many people are going to just use it to dumb them down. >> Well, Jim, this because this is kind this is your field uh uh and you you write and learn and are passionate about um all of all all things cognitive focused >> and you coach people. Are you seeing a greater demand uh for some of the stuff that you teach or a reduced demand? So I think uh how it's delivered is might be changing a little bit like um we have the largest academy of accelerated learning in the world. We have students in every country. Um speed reading, memory enhancement, critical thinking, creativity, brain optimization, all the all this stuff, right? Um >> I feel like uh courses probably are going down, I would imagine, industrywide in terms of going through online when people could go to AI and say, "Oh, how would how would Jim Quick memorize this, you know, stuff?" and so on and which is great. I think there's a big part of our community or anyone that's built a brand that that's special because you've earned their trust, right? You there you have relationship equity. I think I think Yeah. cuz again like like there's this whole I'm I'm in a lot of author communities and there's this whole thing with AI writing you know doing that but some some readers just don't want to read anything AI and publishers are taking a stance on it because that p the AI has not gone through the experience you know the authentic transparent experience of what you know what they're talking about if it's a piece if it's AI writing that's something so I feel like um you know if you've built a brand out that's out there and most businesses have a brand or champion a spokespeople for it um then That relationship is is a big asset, you know, because people want to in times of confusion, people will go to people that have earned their trust repeatedly, consistently, right? You guys have episodes on five a week on basis and you show up for people and that earns trust, right? And you don't and so like just like if you're in a relationship and you always prom or somebody promises they would do something at work or whatever and then they do it, they break that trust every single time, how much do how much stake do you put in their in their word, right? and and and a brand is often a promise, but think about how we break our own trust, right? We say we're going to do something. I think the number one meta habit, I talk about this in the book. Um it's a it's a daily book like uh you know uh like daily stoic. Um and like any daily book you pull from uh Christianity or Judaism or Buddhism or stoicism, this pulls on science. So it's uh pulls on science of the mind which is psychology or science of the brain which is neuroscience. So, it's a brand new idea that actually gives them prompts. So, like the prompts you give to AI and you're talking about a family member that maybe not is not the most empowering prompt that gives them a biased answer. We're doing that to ourselves all the time cuz think about the prompts the questions we're asking of our own intelligence instead of artificial or natural intelligence. Why can't I ever lose weight, right? Okay, great. Here are all the reasons like just like on on AI or you know why don't I deserve love or whatever or even the questions we ask are not the best kind of questions and we talk about you know so every single thing here has a question that gets people to prompt in an exercise to build that that mental muscle you know if if you will but I I I would say um in terms of uh the f the future of this work right certain things are never going to change cuz the hardware is not going to change the brain it hasn't changed in 300,000 years we pretty much had the same you uh brain as as people did you know all that time ago. So I think you know you know exercise and diet and sleep and relationships you know all always very important I would say also very important nowadays to take a pause meaning um whether it's meditation or time in nature that's for me walking the dogs is my pause like a little brain break because the brain's not meant to go 24/7 right it needs these little little discon you have to disconnect to reconnect for for me like it's interesting if you pause a camera or a computer or a television screen a machine it stops working. >> I found working with clients and myself just personal experience that when we human beings take a moment to pause, we start working. We start in different ways. We start recalibrating. We start recovering. We we start uh reimagining things, right? And so, but people aren't scheduling that white space to think anymore. And people can't be bored anymore, right? They have to take their phone, right? even in the shower, whatever, they always have to have a screen on or they can't even sit in a line to be able to do this or you at dinner table, you know, I see couples like, you know, bowling on the phone, whatever it happens to be. And I feel like, you know, we're talking about children, and again, we have I have a three-year-old and a one-year-old like like I don't want I I don't want them super stimulated all the time, especially they don't grow up on what we grew up watching, right? I'm trying to eliminate, you know, reduce screens and I and I have empathy for that also, right? like for for why parents, you know, use screens sometimes to be able, you know, for for kids. >> Jim, you we're we're in a similar age group. So, I don't know if you've experienced this yet, cuz I have kids, too. And I have two little ones. I have a 5-year-old and a three-year-old. >> Yeah. >> And uh we put on Mr. Rogers. Yeah. >> Okay. >> It's painfully slow in comparison to the kind of stuff that kids watch today. >> It's It's crazy if you watch it now. In fact, there was a scene on Mr. Rogers where he had a clock >> on the screen and he goes, "Let's see how long a minute is." And the screen just focused on the clock with the the second hand going down and you just had to watch it for a minute. >> That's so amazing. >> That would never happen today. >> I don't think an adult could do that. >> No. And so >> so this is what we're putting on for our kids cuz I notice a difference in their behavior when they watch completely. >> And so we have a list of shows that we approve >> because of exactly what you're saying. So earlier too, we were talking about school and how that's you know that structure has changed a bit and I've you know like private school and we've experienced this as well is like they've gone back a bit more to analog. they gone back more to actual reading and then like application and and actually project building amongst each other. And I feel like >> that is somewhat of the answer in terms of the exercise of it and and being able to have that uh human knowledge and experience and then we can get to the digital stuff and you know AI kind of coming in at that. Is that really do you see a big need for that? I >> I I think a hybrid you know kind of a whole self-learning um where it's it's taking the whole child into consideration. So not just left brain, right brain, conscious, unconscious, but it's also their sleep and their diet and everything else that that that affects it. So it's not everybody, you know, like in society sometimes want the magic pill like, you know, yeah, every everybody, right? And I just I just feel like there's not a pill, but there is a process, you know, for this. Um, for kids, I'm I'm very interested. I I've had the opportunity to meet with a lot of founders of different schools and tour and and advise. Um I mean they use our our strategies in in some of the top school systems in South Korea and Finland um for accelerated learning, metal learning, learning how to learn the stuff that we teach, right? Learning faster. I would say um devices are a challenge, right? I I wouldn't want to be a teacher. It would be very hard. My my my mother uh retired a handful of years ago from New York public school system. She be she started as a public um school uh special ed teacher to help me with my learning disabilities for my brain injury as a child. Um, teachers could be some of the most caring, competent, compassionate individuals, but I can't even imagine like, you know, holding the attention of kids that grew up, our generation grew up on video games, right? Which is one thing, but on screens and going back out to like the kid like our kids will watch occasional stuff. We do we do try to put some borders and boundaries when possible but like I like there's certain the content of what they're watching is very important like you said like today's stuff like if you go on YouTube the stuff that goes viral that has you know million billions of views it's it's it's it's noisy it's fast yeah the flashing the sounds the lighting everything is so stimulating I mean have you seen these videos >> we don't even allow YouTube for that reason YouTube is built on an algorithm of addiction and so the last thing I want is my seven-year-old y old watching something that's being that's programmed to feed him something that's addictive. So like that the platform itself is just not an ideal. >> You hear all these ideas and I don't know if they're if they're if they're true but all these founders of these tech companies not let the screens. No. >> Yeah. And just taking a reprieve from your screens for 2 weeks brain scans before and after like some some of them just like like their brains uh like go go back you know 10 years. >> I don't think of that as training. Yeah. And and it's just but sitting in boredom is is that there's a challenge. You ever see these these kids that online where you take the advice away and they just like you're taking lose their mind. >> Yeah. It's like taking away like crack. Like it's just like that kind of like addiction and that that's that's that's a challenge. So you know I see schools um reducing screen time or or or going back to analog. I I don't read on, you know, screens particularly when I travel. It's harder cuz you know I don't want to carry like all these books with me. >> But I always like to read physical. I I just something there's something about a physical book. >> Well, I'll tell you the difference. Uh read um off of your phone before bed and see how far how fast you fall asleep and then read a real book. Yeah. >> And see how quickly you fall asleep. >> And I read fiction at night too cuz sometimes if I read something too stimulating like on science or business, whatever it is, I'll get in my executive brain. I'll have all these ideas. But fiction reading has been shown to reduce stress upwards of 60%. have a better better sleep also and also like cuz I used to read all non-fiction stuff right I want to know like yeah I'm guilty >> the fiction reading like there's a vote for this u higher EQ intelligent like narration storytelling empathy creativity perceptual positions be able to you know jump from other people's point of view all the stuff that's so very important and it's soothing right as opposed to something that might be a little bit more >> tech you know what I started doing Jim just recently this was my wife started it and then She encouraged me to do it. There's a device called a brick. I don't know if you're familiar with this, but it's like this >> it's like this plastic square and you bring your phone up to it and it can you can select whatever apps you want to turn off or whatever. >> And you'll breakick your phone. >> Leave that somewhere that's, you know, kind of hard to get to. So, I leave it downstairs. >> And so, all my social media apps, my text, everything is inaccessible. >> Uh, from that point on, the only way to turn it off is to go back to that physical break and turn it back on. >> And that and that's the key for habits, right? is isn't controlling your environment. >> Yes. >> Right. You want to make the things one of the one of the principles are for habit design is you want to make the things that are good for you easier >> and you want to make the things that are not good for you more difficult. Right. And that's the thing like having your phone by your bed on your nightstand is a challenge. >> Like I I was talking to one of our students the other day and like like she was telling me how she she scrolls at night and you know for like and I was like we looked at it was like 2 and 1 half hours, right? People don't realize how much time goes by just going like this because you could do this infinitely, right? And besides the sleep issues that the the blue light thinking, you know, you're not creating melatonin because you my nervous system think still thinks it's daylight, besides the stimulus that you're watching that could also stimulate you, you know, the context switching all of that. >> Um, you know, I said I was like, "Wow, that's that's interesting." And she was using something to justify it saying, "Well, I had a really long day. This is my way of de-stressing." And we all I totally understand that. And then but the question I asked cuz I always want to question people's assumptions just getting that metacognition people thinking about why they do what they do and how they think. I was like, "Okay, would you wake up 2 and a half hours earlier to do to do what you're doing right now? Like would the scroll like that?" And the answer was obviously no. >> But logically, like if you're going to stay up, you know, two two extra hours, would you get up two extra hours do that? And it was instant, right? And and the challenge, you know, with with this habit, just like, you know, you make the things, you know, I have a pull-up bar in my like right in my the doorway in my office, right? just more likely to be able to do that because I'm making things I want to do, you know, easier for me to be able to do for um here's a hack for everybody. So, what when you wake up in the morning cuz it's high leverage. The only thing that's equal now everyone has equal education or net work or you know income or whatever but everyone has 24 hours in a day, right? And so Limitless not about being perfect, it's about leverage. Like how do you leverage those minutes? So it's not even about time management, it's really about mind management, right? And so here's a leverage point. When you first wake up, there's something called sleep inertia. And sleep inertia is uh when you transition from a sleep state to a waking state. And you would imagine certain things are coming online. Like your attention's coming online, your conscious awareness is coming online, your alertness is coming online, your working memory is empty, right? So it's kind of like you're waking up and it's like fresh snow. Not everyone, no one's like there's no tire tracks and other people's footprints. It's like it's pristine, right? It's clear in that window there's something called attentional priming. And what that means is that what you're putting in the mental inputs in that window and that that window could be depending on your sleep quality depending on what stage of sleep you woke up in whether it's deep you could be more groggy or whatever about 15 to 45 minutes right when you first wake up. Now that the mental input you put in those 15 to 45 minutes has a disproportionate effect on the rest of your day. Disproportionate. So think about this specifically in three areas. What you focus on later on that day. >> So what you prime attentionally prime in the morning, you're more likely to focus on. Number two, how you feel throughout the day? Your mood. >> And like think about it like you could get let's say someone picks up their phone. That's what most people put in this window. And so what is what is it amplifying? Their focus. So what they so what they start focusing on? whatever they saw first thing in the morning, comparison, depression, conflict, war, whatever, whatever it is, or just pure distraction. Like, nobody would invite 200 strangers into their bedroom first thing in the morning to talk about whatever the heck they want to talk about. That's kind of what we're doing. >> Yes, it is >> consciously or unconsciously. So, your focus, what you focus on here will be primed to what you focus on later. um how you feel and also how you frame your day like how you frame situations, conversations, uh uh challenges, is it a crisis, is an opportunity based on what you primed your mind for. So the challenge with, you know, I just saw a video that I have on Facebook, you know, it's Facebook memories 9 years ago, me and Simon Synynic, >> somebody cut this video of it's 38 million views. It says just me talking about don't touch your phone the first 30 minutes of the day or or the last 30 minutes of your day, right? Really, really simple. and then talk about the anxiety that comes with the phone and but when you pick up your phone you're priming your attention and it's not just attentional priming it's emotional priming. So what are you priming it with? Distraction every like share com whatever and reaction cuz you get a message or a social media comment that puts you in a mood for hours, right? Or a voicemail or WhatsApp, you know, and so what are you what are you priming? And so you're priming reaction meaning you're fighting fires right off the bat. You're on the defense. How do you create an amazing day if you're just like if you're on your heels first thing in the morning mentally, right? So I always say like it's mind before media at least for that window, right? It it's it's what's your intention for the day before interruption. And you're like, what's your direction before all this distraction? And so when I wrote Limitless Daily, which is 366 days, you put as everyone's on the same date, it's meant to be to be read ideally like in that window cuz then you prime the things that make sense. So start your day off. Read the day for the day. Sets you up for better attention, >> better reaction, uh good emotion >> because what because what it does, you know, the conversations that you you know, we had a couple of like uh conversational specialists like Jefferson Fischer and other people on our podcast, right? Um master conversationalist. And I was saying like the most important conversation is not with your clients or even your kids. It's the conversation you have with yourself >> cuz that's a conversation you've been having your whole life, right? And so that makes a difference. So this is a way of you waking up and before of having dealing with everyone else's agenda for your life and react everything else, you know, directing your mind. It's like when you wake up, it's like your computer is rebooting, >> right? And and until later later on, you have all these tabs open because people are opening them for you, whatever, you know? But here it's clean, right? It's not using up a lot of energy. You have plenty of memory. your working memory is empty, right? Your focus is absolutely clear because you haven't distracted yourself. And so, you know, for this when I wrote about it, the big question I got from Limitless, which sold a couple million copies, you know, it just and we donated all the proceeds to to charity, built schools for girls in Ghana, Guatemala, Kenya, offered healthcare that kept them out of school, you know, clean water because a lot of these girls are spending six hours a day catching water for their families and also Alzheimer's research uh for for for women in memory of my grandmother. But books for me is is is is changed my life. You know, I didn't have these connection everything. And then my my teachers would have been surprised if I I read a book much less, you know, wrote books. But what I was what I I didn't think the world but the question I got from people reading limitless is this is you know great you know owner's manual for your brain. Your brain you know doesn't have instructions but like how can I live this every day? because I didn't I didn't think people needed another because everyone wanted the next book. And I was like went to a publisher like people don't need another book. I I love books, right? I read every day. I rather go honestly a day without, you know, eating than a day without reading. You know, not that I skip meal like but I that's how important it is for me. But I don't think the world needed a book where they could read for a few days, put it back on the shelf. I I wanted a daily practice cuz that's what changes people's lives, right? Is the action, the implementation, the habit. People need a new habit. They don't need another book. And what I wanted was to develop a fiveinut low friction, no excuse first thing in the morning. Like you get your workout done first thing in the morning and you're, you know, you do something difficult first thing and you earn your dopamine, right? Yeah. I'm sure your audience knows dopamine is a molecule of motivation. Most people think I have to be motivated to take action. No, you take a small action, then you earn the dopamine, you know, and then that fuels future action and momentum, right? as opposed to people getting dopamine, not earning it, scrolling, going to a website, eating junk food, whatever it happens to be. So, this is a daily mental practice to upgrade your technology just like you upgrade your Zoom, your apps, the new chat GBT, your get by the new phone 5 minutes a day to get your mind right to be able to win for the day, you know. And I mentioned to you guys like, you know, I wrote this uh this it wasn't going to be a book. book. I wrote it for my for my kids, you know, when my daughter was born, you know. Um it was different when I had a daughter. I'm always tell straight up like I don't know. Like I I love my son, but >> I got both. I know what you mean. >> So, but it's um but I saw my wife holding her and then my son at 2 years old like in the hospital bed and when she was just born, it was just different. I write every morning. That's I I like I'm I'm just very creative in the morning. Like I I break my day with three C's. I I create in the morning, I consume in the afternoon, and I clear at night. And that's I task batch, right? I I I I create, I write books, I I map out podcast, courses, whatever. Create, then I consume, you know, I do research, you know, I read books, I prepare for a podcast, whatever. And then at night, I clear, you know, where I just I talk to my wife about my day. I clear it out cuz I want to be able to sleep. I I I journal or or I do some yoga nidra or I do, you know, something that just I I write what I have to do tomorrow, right? Get it out. clear and I could sleep so much better. Um, so that's how I task batch so I'm just not multitasking um and not using up a lot of energy. And so but in the morning um at the hospital instead of writing gratitude or what I want to do that day I started writing to my kids cuz you know I am in my 50s and god forbid I'm not here 20 years from now you know when if they're going through a hard day, a limited day um what would they need to hear from their father to to get through it? And I started writing about pure failure, you know, uh burnout, overload, distraction, imposttor syndrome, I mean, negative thoughts, self-doubt. >> And um and then I had a friend who was going through a really hard time, stage stage four cancer. And I I gave him the man like like some of my notes, and he was like, "This is so crazy. Like every single I've been reading this each day, it's like exactly what I needed to hear." Cuz so much of healing or success is is a mindset, right? getting your mind, right? And so I went back through this and I was like, "Oh, this could be this could be the book. This could be the practice." And I went through I put the science of every entry. So every every page has a specific date. You go to August 20th, whatever, it'll have a new idea in written inspiring way so you're motivated to do it. A twominute implementation, so there's no excuse, right? And then uh and a new identity statement in terms of your becoming. And I feel like success or transformation doesn't come from just occasional bursts. You don't just work out for a weekend and you're done, right? You don't brush your teeth for three hours and you're done for the year. All of success is that progressive overload. It's the consistency just like building a muscle. And this is something people could do every morning to kind of get their mind right to win the day. >> When I open that every day and I read for the day, how long does it take to read and implement um on a daily basis? What does that look like? >> 5 minutes. So five minutes a day >> including the implementation. >> Awesome. And so it's a five-minute practice every single day and it's a mental >> cognitive exercise book essentially >> to get your mind right because it's kind of like when you wake up in the morning imagine you're getting on a on a plane, right? And hopefully you know the city you want to end up in. >> But just like in our day we have turbulence and we have headwinds. We have all these things are vying for our getting to where we want to go, you know, and and just being off >> and some people are their planes being hijacked by by other people's like agenda for which what they want from you. And so even a 1% if you're going this way and you you just take a 1% difference this way over the course of a day or the flight, you could end up in a completely different city or a country, right? That's the difference that makes the difference. So, this is about getting your mind right, pulling you from the passenger seat up into the cockpit and you are the pilot of your day. You're not you're not the passenger. Like one exercise I just read recently cuz I'm rereading I'm reading this myself now. Um is like this exercise like when I when I wake up I I imagine I thought experiment. I imagine myself coming back to bed like later that night and my wife asked me, "How was your day?" And I was like, and I imagine myself saying, "Wow, it was amazing." Like totally crushed it today, right? And then I asked myself, "What had to happen in order for me to feel that way for me to say these words to my wife?" And I think of three things personally, three things professionally. >> And that becomes the things I focus on. And I actually don't even pick up my phone until I get one of those six things done, >> right? And that's kind of my personal rules, myself rules. Some people don't like they don't have to understand the like do my process but the principle behind it and that's like one entry and I talk about the science behind why this works and everything else because how are you going to know you had a great day by default this is by design right like you have a goal in mind and it's hard to stop somebody who knows where they're going and why why they're going there right so this is to help people get in flow throughout the day right we have an event coming up and we have you know uh Stephen Codler talking about flow states but you know the the reason this work is so significant is because if you remove every day distraction, burnout, uh you know, imposttor syndrome, all the things that would keep you out of flow >> where you feel your best and you perform your best, right? That's the friction to flow, right? So the the goal here is if you want to win the day, you have to win those first few minutes of the day with attentional priming and that sleep inertia time and and I think the best the best athletes whatever they're protective of their time and their and their attention. You know, attention is currency. Like think about the words we use when we talk about attention. Pay attention, right? And like if everybody had to pull out their credit card every single time they put their attention somewhere, you go on Facebook and you have to pull out your credit card and enter that information, people would treat it very differently, right? Or and then they go to Instagram, they pull the same credit card and do it again. We wouldn't do that. We' be thinking about how do we save and preserve our, you know, our attention, this currency. How would we invest it into something that's worthwhile? And I really I really think the most important thing is to keep the most important thing the most important thing, right? I think a lot of people listening there's a section on burnout like a day, you know, one of the entries. And I think we're not burnt out always cuz we're doing too much. You might feel that way, but some people are burnt out cuz they're doing too little of the things that matter, the things that that make them come alive. >> There's no purpose of being >> Yeah. And but but until people have a conversation about that, especially first thing in the morning when you're most impressionable, then I feel like we're on default. We're just kind of going with the flow of things. And I think that is a recipe just like with AI, like if we're not deliberate and intentional of what we're doing while we're doing it, then we can't be upset again if if if because then it's just like fate or just like luck or something else. And those are horrible like strategies. you uh there's there's great data on this on people who deal well with stress and it's not because they have less stress in their lives. It's because the stress that they have is something meaningful and purposeful. >> So like people who like volunteer in uh third world countries like they are out there. It's dangerous. It's hard work and they feel great about what they do. And then you got you know John going to his office uh uh you know every day and he's he's overcome with stress because he's like what am I doing? Yeah, >> I don't have any purpose behind what I'm doing. So, what you're saying is just it's so true and it's so backed by >> by the data. >> It's it's it's interesting when we talk about purpose and meaning, right? Like what what gets us up >> and gets us through those the the difficult times. I feel like more people lean into that and have these kind of honest conversations and maybe that this conversation will inspire them to do that with their loved ones and everything because that's what I think that makes us that's one of the the pillars for being human. You know, >> I was I was going to ask you, Jim, because you said earlier that the your ability, one of the measurements of intelligence, as other people have defined it, is like your ability to essentially change your mind. You have an opinion and then you get new information and you can change your mind. >> When's the last time that happened to you? When was the last time you had an opinion where you were like, "Oh, I think this is right." Then you got new information, you're like, "Oh, man. I'm I'm totally wrong." >> Yeah. I mean, even writing this book, you know, I I thought I was going to write another book and and I I probably will. I have a couple ideas in mind, but you know, even changing my mind like cuz I didn't I didn't want this to be this this is deeply personal book cuz I wrote it for my kids and they're the most important thing in my life. And so like that's what I put into this book, but doing a daily I was like, "Oh, there's a you know that doesn't I don't know if that makes sense." So that was like one just that was a small one, you know, in in terms of of that. Um, another one is like this belief about my sleep. You know, I've had this conversation with you guys before. or you know I have very bad sleep apnnea obstructive I stopped breathing 250 times a night um from 2010 to 2015 I slept 90 minutes a night total >> wow >> yeah like it was that bad caps weren't working dental devices and I had mad walk I have everybody on on speed dial and it just wasn't working and I and I just realized and I had a surgery at UCLA and they took out my tonsils my soft pallet and it was obstructive so my sleep went up to 4 hours and 4 and a half hours but like I've created this perfect storm back as a kid where I would pull all nighters because I had to work three times harder as the other kids to get to pass, >> you know, and then so that didn't develop good sleep habits. And then and my career, >> you know, I've given 2200 keynotes at companies, corporations, conferences. I could be in three continents in a week, right? So the jet lag, sleeping in four environments. But I had this whole thing. I had to reframe my beliefs around sleep, you know, like like I would I my belief back then was I I could I have so much to do. I'm on mission. I have purpose, you know, I don't have the time, so I'll just borrow from my sleep, right? It was like it was like a bank account I kept on drawing and drawing until it went into into overdraft, you know, and now I just see sleep completely different, >> you know, where it's just you you could reach but you have to rest and then you could repeat, right? Um, but that had also I think I also g was gaining like there's secondary gain. Like I think when people complain to friends all the time because they feel heard or they feel significant or they go to back to therapy and I'm not I'm not I'm not making a judgment on therapy but they'll go there's a secondary gain a feeling wow this person really listens to me >> and they'll maybe stay in a situation longer than they want to or need to because there is a secondary benefit >> and I think part of my secondary benefit was like people saying all the time like wow Jim you're doing all this on like 3 hours of sleep and I was getting like well yeah I'm kind of cool but here's The thing it's just like people going around just just two hours ago someone's I was I was talking to a friend like I was like how you doing it's like I'm so busy and this person is always busy but they use it as a badge of honor and I was like because what is it saying to them the secondary is like I'm important if you're busy like so so significant important and I'm like okay if that's what you value and that's your belief then it's no no wonder you're designing your life to be busy all the time be able to maintain that and I didn't want to get any secondary gain or sympathy the from lack of sleep. Even though I've literally went from Estonia to Nashville to New York City to Scottsdale to LA to here. >> Is that what you just did? >> Yeah. Oh, you weren't in here when you first day first came in. You still like >> So did you have good sleep last night? >> When you Okay. So, uh I imagine when you're coaching people, you probably do before you really start giving advice or get going, you probably take inventory of what their day looks like and you know, right? What? So, do you find that your your initial advice when helping people is more eliminating stuff in their day or adding stuff into their day? What do you >> That's such a great question. >> Um, I mean, you guys know like coaching is all about taking somebody where their current state is to their desired state, right? And be able to help them close the gap. You know, one of the two things that I I find that are most important for a coaching client that I sort for is they have to be they have to be they have to be motivated to make a change. Um, and they have to be open-minded because somebody could be open-minded, but they're not motivated. That's not useful. Or someone could be motivated, but they're very close-minded on how things should be done. And I I'm just going to get too much friction. And uh, and so I feel like they have to do it's a co-creation process. >> Um, I definitely look at their calendar. I think a calendar is first of all I think it's one one of the number one productivity performance tools we have that if we don't schedule it's not going to happen like workout or reading or implementation or anything that's you know even scheduling your sleep when to go to sleep I mean like you have an alarm clock to wake up >> there's I think there's huge benefit of having that same alarm clock to go to sleep even on the weekends but and I know no one does is perfect but to the degree you stay on a schedule you're going to overall sleep long term is just going to be better I mean without a doubt I mean just as humans been wired for um but if I look at their calendar I can see what's important to them right just like where people put their time their attention their resources that's what's important no matter what they say right if they're not doing that like spending the time with their f they're not doing the things right um and so yeah I do an audit cuz everything I teach is measurable you know besides the metrics of of sleep and HRV and everything else like that just like in in the fitness world like I can measure I can measure focus I can measure memory I can measure reading speed reading comprehension everything so I have a baseline and and you know we could grow them. Um I would say uh in terms of where the the sticking points are um motivation is is a challenge. Keep people going and I talk about purpose having something that they feel cuz if they can intellectually know they want but they're not doing anything about it cuz they don't feel it right and we're feeling creatures you know and I would say another one is having enough energy to do the thing because an exhausted mind is is a coward. I mean, you're just not going to do the things if if you're just tired, right? You're not going to take on that that challenge, you know? Um, and then the other thing, the art of I think of this is is breaking things down into small simple steps, >> right? That's why I did this as a daily of 5 minutes. It's like what what's the phrase? It's like for people, it's like the heaviest weight at the gym is the front door for a lot of people, >> but that but it's true. >> Never heard that. That's good. I can't believe I've never heard that either. That's really good. >> Yes. >> It's our feeling. >> Yeah, it's our feeling. You got to Just this is one of those things where it's like people aren't working out, put on your running shoes. Like it's a small like my kids, we had a biological dentist on our podcast talking about, you know, oral health and brain health and the mic the microbiomes and the inflammation and beyond brushing like oil pulling, tongue shaping, all this stuff. And I was just, you know, I started our three-year-old starting to floss, right? But it was like this was it was it was a little bit of a thing, but I was just like, okay, small simple step, one tooth, cuz nobody stops one tooth. Like if somebody doesn't read 30 minutes a day, that could be a big jump. even though 30 minutes a day even for a workout or whatever we know that's 2% of your day like like come on like and so you know opening up the book is a small simple step reading one line because nobody doesn't stop in one line right and little by little a little becomes a lot and I feel like that's how you do it because you eliminate the friction and I asked myself was the tiniest action if I'm feel stalled with a client I'll often ask him still like what's the tiniest action you could take right now that will give you progress towards this goal where you can't fail just one line little tiny any action that you can earn and and do, you know, and then that becomes the evidence that you are who you say you are. I think the number one habit is to do what you say you're going to do because if you start bringing trust, you say, I'm going to read I'm going to read every single day or work out whatever in a certain amount of time or whatever and you don't do it like you you would tolerate that from people around you or you wouldn't trust them. But what's that about ourselves, right? That we don't show up for ourselves and and getting ourselves and doing difficult things. It provides evidence that we are who we say we are. Like one of the things I was talking about reading, you know, in those stats is so is so scary. 16% of people read every day. That's it. >> A book or magazine. 16% across age, gender, ethnicity. >> Not just books, but >> books, magazines like like 16% read no read every day. 51% don't read one book a year, >> you know. And that this is what's happening in you know, especially with you know, Tik Tok and everything else. the attention span and reading is so very important and I can give go I could do a master class on this but I was like okay you know the part of this agenda for this book is get people to read a little bit each day and after a few weeks they start seeing themselves as it's like oh I don't have to try to do this it's like I am a reader and then once they start seeing themselves as I am a reader they'll start picking up other books and start reading >> when I read uh in the morning I read I tend to read more throughout the day >> it tends to set me up later in the day without the goal of being that because you're priming. You're doing intentional priming cuz the things that you do and it's it's just like first thing in the morning if you ate >> a bunch of donuts and and muffins and some like whatever Starbucks star Starbucks one of your sponsors, right? Like like >> but that that will >> that will have a disproportionate effect >> on your focus on your mood and how you frame the rest of the day. >> It's even more than that. It's really weird. So, uh it it definitely impacts your behaviors later. There's data on that. But did you know that what you eat in the morning first thing affects your your blood sugar for the rest of the day? >> That's crazy. >> Regardless so of what you eat for the rest of the day. So you eat a high protein breakfast, >> you'll have better uh more stable blood sugar throughout the day regardless of what it is the rest of the day. >> This is your high protein mental breakfast, right? Right. >> You want you you want to you really I mean if anyone gets and and but here's the other thing. people whether they get this book limitless.com whether they get the book or not like that that sleep inertia time some people use it for prayer some people use it for gratitude like if you if you if you use that for gratitude you'll see more blessings throughout the day 100%. There's there's no doubt, right? And so, like I'm saying, this is the high was one of the highest leverage things you could do first thing in the morning or or for you connect with a loved one, right? There's certain positive things you could do first thing in the morning, you know, and and what I wanted to do is just like this is so simple because it's a it's a one-year journey and a lot of people end up keep on going, but it's like brushing your teeth, right? You brush your teeth for a few minutes, read for a few minutes, and then the rest of your day, you you know, you're you're good. >> Excellent. I love it. It's a It's a year program. Five minutes a day. >> Yeah. >> Get your brain out. >> 366 mental upgrades. I made that for the leap year just to keep it. >> But it's it's really to to to to train your brain to master your mind to win every single day. And that that's really the promise. >> Very cool. I'm excited to use it. Yeah. And Jim, you're just so great. Um you you've stuck around, remain relevant because what you talk about and teach is legit. It's real. >> Yeah. We we we adapt. I I appreciate you guys a lot. You know, I remember this years ago when I first came on the show, and I I appreciate you guys really on a mission. And so, not only what you guys do, but also the the manner you do it. People don't realize what goes on behind the scenes. And I I know you guys have, you know, really hacked your your lifestyle to be able to spend things, you know, doing what you want, you know, the things you wanted to be able to do. And I'm at the also stage in my life, you know, where I just I just it's less transactional. I just want to be with people who are just doing really cool things where I'm learning, they're making an impact, we're having fun in the process and you know like >> like I I I was in San Francisco like um I'm a big Bruce Lee fan, right? I for his 70th birthday I was with his wife and his daughter. >> Really? >> Yeah. On his 70th birthday we went for dim sum and then afterwards we went to the hospital that Bruce was born um in Chinatown in San Francisco. Wow. and they had never been there before. And then we went to the room that he was born and I was I got goosebumps. I call him I call them truth bumps. Um and they they they you know later on they tore down the the hospital. But um but I I learned a lot. I kind of modeled a lot. I didn't realize it cuz as a kid, you guys know I I pour myself into comic books cuz I wanted to escape. I couldn't read. I taught myself to read by reading comic books. Um but the other thing I was pouring myself into is like these martial arts movies. But I realized that Bruce Lee I didn't even realize how much modeling I did for this where you know he it was you know JKD came from it wasn't just like one way like Wing Chung it was fencing right it was western boxing >> have you read Towel G of course I got that look >> and I love and I love this because he integrated like cuz so many people in space this is the only way of doing something right and so you know even with like I there's ancient pneummonics but I was pulling in from all these other areas to build our systems then you open up schools and I had learning centers I started working in Hollywood when I started working in Hollywood and I saw this like uh this this parallel arc, you know, not not to say I'm Bruce Lee but at all, but it he was really inspiring for me at that time. But I bring this up because he has a quote that I have on my office wall. It's saying the key to immortality, talk about living longer. The key to immortality is first living a life worth remembering. >> And for me, the memory training I've done over the years, it's not just facts, figures, and formulas or whatever. It's remembering who you are. Like we we we could have confidence because we remember our past successes. We could have, you know, fear because we remember all our past failures, right? We could have wisdom because we remember our lessons. We you know, we have expertise because we remember our experience, right? And all these other things. And so memory for me maybe because I've, you know, lost loved ones to dementia and things I felt beyond my control. Like I feel like, you know, my message for people is remember who you are, right? And that's what I feel like this book does. It's a conversation with yourself about remembering who you are >> before the world tells you who you are. You remember like the shrinking of other people's opinions and their expectations and feel of looking bad, >> you know? And I just feel like life is difficult for one of like it's it's change can be scary, right? You know, you want to be in survival. Your human brain's not, you know, meant for growth as much it is for protection, safety, right? So change can be scary. Growth can be hard, but nothing is as scary and hard as being stuck somewhere you don't belong, >> you know. And I feel like your community understands this and that's why they're they're with you. They tune in all the time, you know, because they need these conversations happening because maybe their friends, they're not getting it from their friends and their family, you know, and this is the wonderful part of technology that allows all this to happen. Exactly. >> You know, to be able to share new ideas and have new conversations, new forming new opinions and, you know, but living a life worth remembering. >> Perfect. Perfect. And it's limitlessaily.com. >> It is. There's a bunch of uh launch gifts and bonuses and all that fun stuff that come along with it, >> but it's it's a year-long journey and u awesome. >> Yeah. >> Very cool. Well, Jim, thanks again, man. Always always a pleasure, man. >> Yeah, thank you. >> You guys are the best. Thank you.