Website Content Managers Group January 2026

Hello to all. Happy 2026. How's it going, Jay? >> It's going well. I'm grateful for this group because last month a couple of ideas were suggested and they were great. >> Oh, fantastic. What did you What did you try that that worked well? >> [clears throat] >> Well, Shalley suggested a couple of projects that LSC had funded 10 years ago for plain language, write clearly and read clearly. Neither of them were working, but it really led us toward using the glossery and finding another tool that works um within Microsoft Word. So, it was great. >> Fantastic. Terrific. Um, and I'm just going to wait another minute or two before getting started for people who um may be showing up late. Um, but we're going to focus today on kind of a a little bit of reflection about 2025 and moving into 2026. So, the first question I'm going to be asking people and as a little bit of also our our intros of ourselves is kind of one thing that you feel like you've learned last year that you're taking into 2026. Do we have a fair amount of people with us? Not that many people on camera. Would you're certainly not required to be on camera. would love you to turn on the camera if you're uh if you're willing so we can be a community. Thank you. Um and uh yeah, let's get started. Um uh because it's a little more thoughtful of a prompt, I'm going to um uh take volunteers um to as opposed to just calling people and making people um you know come up with stuff on the fly. Um but let's um let us try to all answer I will go first myself. So let us so for anybody who was um who just joined us. So let's start out this group. Welcome everybody. Uh welcome to 2026 and to um our uh web legal content managers discussion group. That's a little bit of a mouthful. Um we're going to spend today in a little more reflective mode. Um uh starting out by introducing ourselves as always. Um and thinking about one thing that you feel like you learned in 2025 and are taking into 2026. Um and I'll just start. Um so I am Laura Quinn. I am your um uh facilitator of this group. Um I am a consultant um specializing in uh legal websites and other website strategy. Um and somebody said something in another meeting I was at that really struck me. Um and it is something that I've been kind of slowly learning and I really want to focus on for 2026, which is the idea of not trying to turn my weaknesses into strengths. So, this is a little more meta and you're welcome to be more detailed than this. Um, but logically, nobody's good at everything. Um, if I'm weak at something, um, it's unlikely that I'm going to turn it into a strength. So, I need to make a better plan. Um, than that, I need to think about, you know, all right, can I hire it out? Can I delegate it? Can I not get around having to do it? But I or can I make myself adequate at it? But yeah, it's not going to be a straight. Anybody else willing to show to share something? Either it could be super tactical. We tried to use this word and it was the bad the not a good word all the way up to, you know, the most meta you can think of. Anybody want to share? I am happy to kick off only because I have nothing of substance to share um because I am on week two as serving as the new project manager for Law Help Colorado. So, I'm I'm I'm not even entirely sure where I am most of the day when I am figuring all of this out. I am trying to orient myself in every way, shape, or form. Um I think you know Molly French um and Emo, they recommended I join this meeting. So, I am just going to soak up and learn from all of you in this meeting and unfortunately you offer nothing of substance and I'm so sorry, but I am grateful to be here. >> Fantastic. We're so excited to have you. Welcome. >> Terrific. Who else? >> I I'll volunteer to go. Um I last year learned that I should not be afraid to just ask for what I want, whether it's help or a donation or can we do something to make this a little easier. You know, sometimes I'm afraid to step on toes. I don't like to be too aggressive, but you can just ask. And it's surprising how much how many times you'll hear yes. And it's like been my superpower, [laughter] you know? Fantastic. >> Awesome. Who else? I'll go. I'm Millie her and I'm with Community Legal Aid SoCal and um what I think we we've come come to the conclusion rather than try to go back and and remember um have a running list of all the changes we make to our website um specifically to also for potential uh reporting purposes. So yeah, and that's something we just always used to, you know, what okay we did this we did and then go back try to remember and racking our brains and now we're like no we need to make a list and then as we go it's like oh here's the list this is what we've done this year. So >> that's awesome. >> I'll be happy to go next. Um because in contrast to Kate, one of the things that I learned in the past few months is to ask less of people. Um the thing that's brand new for me this year is methodically dealing with plain language editing. And our original workflow idea was to have ourmemes, our legal experts do some of that. And um it was really important for me to learn that we needed to add a step with an editor with somebody who specifically understood about accessibility, headings, formatting, plain language, and that [clears throat] our attorneys their step in the process was really verifying legal accuracy and clarity. So um that was a very helpful insight and it was very good when I said okay that's great and stepped away from asking people to do that and I'm always interested as I was last month in hearing how people are doing that because it's really um it's a heavy lift. >> Absolutely fantastic. Thank you, Chad. >> I can go next. Hi, I'm uh Channita Chinapple Mlullen. I'm the legal content director at Illinois Legal Aid Online. Um, and this past year, a lot of it for me was spent trying to figure out AI, the role of AI in our work. Um, and then also understanding that you're always going to have people who are really, really for using AI for everything. and um you know taking over the entire process and then on the other side you know uh a little bit more skeptical um and then you know where we fit as legal content managers where my team fits uh in all of that and the best way to move forward um in working with these different types of people who who have certain expectations or um thoughts about how things should go. >> Absolutely fantastic. Thank you. >> Hey, I'll jump in next. My name is Marilyn Zupkov. I'm the fund development and marketing coordinator at Community Legal Aid SoCal. Um I think the thing we learned and I'm a little embarrassed to admit to a bunch of uh website people, but the importance of analytics. It was something I have a Google Analytics um account, but I don't think I looked at it once in 2025. So just kind of, you know, understanding the importance of those numbers. Um I am proud to share that going forward this year we're going to have a monthly analytics uh meeting with my team. So uh we'll see what we can do now that we're looking at Google Analytics. Um and then something else that came up is just the importance of um accessibility on our website. Um that kind of came at the uh request of a funer. Um so it wasn't something we initially thought of but definitely something that we want to put more emphasis on in 2026. Fantastic. >> Uh, and who hasn't introduced themselves and said a little something about um what they learned in 2025 yet? Um, I haven't gone yet. Hi everyone. I'm Amanda Saber with Legal Services State Support in Minnesota. Um, I help operate the lawmn.org site. Um, and I have to apologize that I am a bit distracted these days with everything that's going on. Um, but I I think one thing that we really learned last year um through a couple of uh not so great examples were um just the the level of human error component that there can still exist in reviewing content and our content has grown exponentially over the past year or two. Um and with that of course just is a higher lift to make sure that everything maintains accuracy and um reviews are are good and all of that. Um and so we're going to be um here actually starting here this month going to be implementing um Lacy which some of you may have heard about um as just yet another method to kind of help ourselves cross check and make sure that um you know any changes in the law is is accurately being caught and it's being reviewed and getting updated in our content. Um in addition to our our human reviewers that take a look at that content as well. Fantastic. Who else hasn't gone yet? Um, uh, I think someone just joined. We are just introducing ourselves and we are, this is a little more of a reflective meeting today. Uh, we are talking about a lesson that we learned in in 2025 that we're hoping to bring into 2026. I just joined um Virginia O'Reilly. I'm at Atlanta Legal Aid. I work on georgia legal a.org. Um I have learned to uh don't start projects early [laughter] till you have the tools in front of you. Even though it might seem exciting or eager, uh sometimes you have to be flexible and adaptive and I don't know that's just something >> I have learned personally. Yeah, >> absolutely. Absolutely. Fantastic. Has anyone not gone? Great. That is our group. And with the um uh in the vein of Kate's comment about um asking for help, I'm really curious as to and let's do this one. I'll ask you to just type a little something in the chat and then we'll look at what's in the chat and we'll, you know, have a discussion about it. I'm interested to hear what you would be interested in help from your fellow content managers with what would you like to either talk to them about or what could you do together or if you were one on one would you do so kind of with the power of we've got multiple brains thinking about legal content management What's What's one thing or many things that you would like to get out of that? Enter into the shop. finish up your thoughts in the next 60 seconds or so. I'm counting on all of you not to leave me hanging and looking looking like I can't facilitate this meeting. great. Um, perfect. Um, yes, some um, uh, some trends here. Um, oh, and uh, Janita, you are, um, you are our gold star student. Um, entering things, um, entering [laughter] things multiple times. Um, okay. Thank you. People are, um, um, entering things. Yes. Um, so yeah, a couple of trends. Um, so yeah, there's been a um, a big uh, dominance of of Drupal in the space for a while, but more people are using WordPress. So, that's that's an interesting thing to try to figure out how to how to support that. Um, uh, SEO and AI optimization. Absolutely. Um, yeah, maybe I'll at the end of this do kind of just a little bit of a a dot poll of some sort or something to kind of talk about what we want to actually do with these meetings because that could be one. Um, translations. We had a little bit of a conversation on translations, but we could definitely do more. Um yeah uh findingmemes, motivating attorneys, uh kind of those things that we all deal with all the time. Um yeah, a lot of interested in Lacy. Um so uh though both of these are lacy with um WordPress. Uh, Lacy, for those of you who are not familiar, is a open-source tool that allows you to define what laws or statutes or other things um dictate um the content that are in articles and it will track those online statutes, things like that, um to see if there is any updates to them and will let you know, hey, this thing was updated, which affects these four articles. Um, great. Um, yeah, plain language, plain language training for volunteers. Yeah, content update help. Yeah, plain language. Yeah, it'd be interesting to think through what we might do ourselves in terms of plain language. We logically know a lot of plain language as best practices. How can we support ourselves as a group in training others, helping others, things like that? Fantastic. Thank you. Um, all right. Let's do I'm just looking at my prompts here. Let's do something that um encourages people to talk because now I'm feeling lonely. Um, so let's um I'd love to talk about um so let's put together um something you're willing to share that either went arry. So something that you tried to do that didn't work very well. Um those are honestly often the most useful things. Or if that's not as comfortable, talk about one thing that you tried that went really well that you think might be useful to other people that we haven't talked about in depth yet as a group. Anybody have something that comes to the top of mind? You can raise your hand or probably just start talking with this group. >> I can jump in. We actually have two things in mind um that we've tried and were a little bit surprised to find out that they were kind of a flop. Um and this was um kind of a little ways back, so kind of before the the world of AI and all of that. Um just to provide a little context, but um we had tried doing a plain language search on our site. Um and we found that users really did not like it. um it did not work well and um it was just not a a favorable thing um which we were a bit surprised about. Um and the other thing that we have found um pretty low usage for is video content. Um which is also I find quite surprising considering video tends to be a high preferred way of learning these days. Um, but we've uh we have a couple of different types of videos and kind of across the board we we tend to see pretty low usage of those. Um, [clears throat] so yeah, >> great. That's super useful. Actually, I'm curious as to other people's perspective on those two things. Has anybody else um been trying either plain language search or videos and finding either the same or something different? >> What is plain language search? Can you be a little more specific about that? >> Um, yeah. So, it's a a natural language, so you can just like start typing in um, you know, it's basically like what you would do with an AI prompt right now. Just start typing in like a question or what you're looking for. Um and again this was like pre-Is but um we had tried implementing that um just natural language like search into our site that folks could just start entering in their prompt and be um directed to the resources and we just found that like they didn't really even know how to describe what they were looking for. um just found it not very useful and preferred the the kind of bit more guided and direct path to getting to the content. >> How could you tell that they didn't like it? >> Um part of it was that we did um user studies on it and found that it wasn't helpful. Um, but then we could also see in our search stats, um, that it just wasn't a a very well [laughter] very well working thing and a very used thing. So, that was pretty quickly removed. >> Can I ask what what the search engine was that you used for that? >> Oh gosh, I don't even remember. It was um it was integrated in our Drupal site. I would have to go back and and figure out what that was. see that being I could predict that not being ideal. It's kind of replicating Google's search um but on this website where they're looking for I don't know I'm just trying to predict how that would be the experience but I have a question on how did you conduct those user experience surveys. I have a really hard time with any kind of feedback I'm searching for with our help website cuz it gets confused by users uh of what they need legal help with. Um so I just think our organization at a whole is like apathetic to it because of negative experience in the past. But I'd really like to uh start that again. >> I would have to go back and confirm which type of user studies we did with this one. Um I know we had done um and this was back when we were also doing some other big website changes and that's why I would just have to remember exactly which forms we used for for which projects. Um but I know we had used like AB testing and then we had also used um where we had people come in and we would just kind of watch them navigate the screen. Um and then we've had others where um we had worked with uh some consultants on building things out and then they would do testing where they would have users you know run through um you know some series of prompts or whatever and then um provide their feedback on it. And to be honest now this this was a couple years ago and so I I don't remember off the top of my head which of those versions we used for this particular project. Shenita, I think a uh I'm not sure exactly what you're doing now, but I think for a little while you had a natural language to taxonomy mapping search. Yeah. On your homepage? Um does that sound right? And if so, how was it working well? >> No, we moved to uh embedding back into our site which we had before. Um and yeah, it was just causing um a lot of different issues for us. So we went back to Google. >> So So your experience was similar um that it so not just for technical reasons but for other reasons. It just didn't um Yep. Um and what if any impact do we think that what does that mean if anything do we have thoughts on as people are moving more to uh AI are people interested they're not interested in a search through natural language but maybe they are interested in other things by a natural language like advice or sorry not advice but info by a na natural language or would that imply that they are not interested in conceivably either of those things? Do you have >> We're um we're testing a chat and search that only uses the content on our domain, but the looks out at AI for synonyms for the search terms to get a lot more natural uh recognition of the question that's being asked and then the results. are within only our own content. Haven't tested it with users yet. >> Um, our chatbot Lava Legal A virtual assistant only uses knowledge from our law help website. Um, though it's not on our law website yet, it's still on elena legal.org. Um, as it's only been a few months and we're still, you know, um, be cautious. But it does a good job of synthesizing what the people say and the legal information that could be relevant to their situation. Um >> that's a Leroid um project. >> Yes. >> Do people actually use it or want to use it? Do you know? Um it has very much um been used and is used uh daily um like a I believe uh it's around 2,000 conversations exchanged so far and it links back to the wreck articles always that it's pulling from. Um, I find it helpful in helping people figure out what even is the legal area or topic um, from the conversation in total. Um, that they'll have followup up questions that are more specific. >> Y, great question. >> Uh, yeah, we have um, ask ao on our site. If you go to our homepage, uh if you type in something, you can either use our search feature or asko and Asalo pulls an AI summary based on just our content. Um our product team really really likes this. our legal content team a little less so um in pulling the information um because there can be you know it's not necessarily that the information that we have is inconsistent in different places but it's just slightly different right and so then what it pulls uh up for people then is is not uh what a legal content manager would prefer and so we're we're still working on that but we do have that on our site currently >> um and have you done any user testing um or do you have usage stats? Um so I'm curious as to whether whether people are eager to use it compared to other things on your site. >> Uh yeah, we have people who do user testing uh on our team and uh they people seem to really like it because it looks really nice and personalized. Um but you know that I is a struggle with AI, right? Is that it does look great. Whether or not it's correct is a completely different issue. And um you know that's a struggle that we're trying to figure out like okay how do we um work our content? How do we structure our content so that it pulls exactly what we want it to pull and say exactly what we want it to say. Um and it's it's hard. It's difficult. It's uh still not where the content team I think is is completely comfortable with it yet. >> That's very similar to the new version of Logoid. That was the main um thing that they were addressing, which is really getting into the details of what they're saying and the content we have, making sure to grasp those nuances. But we've had to adjust the prompt a lot to make sure it's not too personalized in the responses uh to address concerns of our legal disclaimer that it's providing legal advice. if it's uh addressing their situation too much. Uh keeping it more general and vague like our contents written is something we put in our prompts. Um first and foremost >> I would be curious on like seeing how using AI integration with this kind of idea of natural language searching would make a difference. And I have approached the idea with my supervisor um and our web developers have actually reached out to gauge our interest in in trying it out on our site um because there is a um an integration in Drupal for it and I think it's been sitting in the back of our minds but because of our previous experience with how that type of search went um and just some other projects we have going on right now I think it's a a little bit kind of further down our totem pole But now with this growing world of AI and people becoming more used to writing those types of prompts, like I would be curious to see if that is kind of the game changer in using that type of a search now. Yeah, you could even test something like that in a a complete prototype uh setting like just to simply user test a page that has the implication of an AI on it to see whether people go there or they still prefer to you know navigate through a like a browse path or something like that. Um, I am going to move on to see what interesting other people uh, successes or failures. Um, but I'm very interested in the other one that Amanda brought up. Um, it's actually kind of similar to an experience I had, which I I will share as well. Um but having um videos, so trying out videos and videos not being necessarily as successful as hoped um are also obviously a lot of work and a lot of work to update. Um other folks have tried out videos and how are videos working for you? not in a really long time. >> So much work. I mean, you put so much time and money and work into them and then something changes and they're obsolete. And, you know, I I tried even experimenting with voiceovers with kind of static pages, but it's still the work to I thought, well, it'd be easy to re-record a voice over, but it's not, >> right? >> And it's just so much work. I'm actually more interested in using something like Notebook LM to do a podcast style where it kind of just reads to the person to try to address um people with limited literacy abilities that way. I mean the other thing too is I think people are so they want 15-second videos. If you give someone a five-minute video, are they really going to watch it? So, I kind of briefly for a little while have kind of given up on videos. >> Yeah. And Virginia also asked in the chat um about the length of the videos. Um so, oh, and Amanda is saying that they're not even seeing anybody play it, though they can see the length. Amanda, about how long uh are the videos were the videos? >> Um like I said, we have a couple of different types of videos. I think some of them are a little bit longer, but we had done a project where we essentially did like video snippets on our fact sheets. Um, and those one I think our time limit was no more than I want to say um I want to say it was maybe a minute and 20 seconds, but most of them were were below that or well below that. >> But yeah, we're just we're just not even people enter the videos, much less dropout points. >> Yeah. Um, another thing about video, this is a very old piece of data, like I don't know, seven, eight, nine years old. Um, but I did, um, um, back when the Florida Technology Justice Project was a thing. They're no longer around. Um, I did a user study with them on different kinds of formats and we compared videos to flowcharts to FAQs to just long form content um, and looked at uh, uh, how much people liked them, how much people actually understood. like we actually had compre a comprehension, not a test, but we, you know, just did a little bit of some questions and there was a third thing. Um, and what we found was that, oh, it was perception of comprehension. Um, so we asked them how much they thought they understood. Um, and what we found was they liked videos the most, they thought they understood things the most. um and they actually understood them the least. Um so and we did it was a reason it was not a gigantic study so there's definitely could be more there but it was I have a background in in user research so it was a reasonably like you know we rotated people and no one saw and all of that stuff. Um in fact I think it's publicly published study I could find it somewhere if people were interested. Um, so, um, but yes, that was a fairly alarming result that like they thought they um um ah, someone's interested. I'll I'll go dig it up. >> I am interested because people ask periodically and I'm like >> I'd like to have a something to back up my reason for saying no. >> Sorry to cut you off. >> Yeah. No, no, absolutely. So, >> can I can I also ask about use of videos? I mean, there's a very big difference between a video that's a how-to based on a fact sheet versus a success story, a personal story about a client that has benefited from this work and it's about a person and has emotional effect. And I see the a big difference between helping people feel that as opposed to the video as a way of getting across a particular set of steps. Uh, no. I think I I completely hear that and I think that we I suspect we've all been talking about the idea of not necessarily a set of steps. Actually, mine was um a set of steps, but kind of informational videos. Um but with the idea of trying to certainly ask someone to donate or even to hey it's worth filing because you can you know you can make this happen. I I don't know that what we've been sharing is is the same. So >> awesome. Um I'm g I'm going to go look for that study while um while somebody else shares if they will about that was so useful things that haven't worked. Um, anybody else willing to share some things uh or one thing that didn't work for them in the past year or so? I will also allow something that did work for you in the past year if you prefer. >> I don't want to commandeer. So, um, feel free to to jump in if there's something else to share. But um on that flip side of something that did go well um and kind of related to what you were just talking about Laura uh something that has worked really well for us is actually the implementation of what we call knowledge tests which are basically just like one to three question quizzes that we've attached to our fact sheets. Um it started out with only like I think 10 of them and um we've grown that and now I would say probably roughly maybe at least half of our fact sheets have them implemented. Um, and we do consistently see high usage of those. Um, people really seem to to like those. Um, and we do a an annual review um of the the stats on those to see like how many people are are tending to get certain questions right versus wrong. Um, and we use that kind of multiple ways. We use it to um you know address is there something that you know maybe is being misunderstood in our content or something that we can rewrite our content in another way to make it more clear. Um uh and so yeah we we actually find really good success with those and we find that um we we do see actual good numbers of of people who do seem to be understanding the the content. Um but yeah, >> fantastic. I've been curious about those. Um, about how what percent of of of readers of a pa or visitors to a page actually take the the quiz? >> Oh, I would have to look at the percentages. Um, and it really varies. We we have some that, you know, hardly anyone will will take the quiz and then we have others that it's, you know, hundreds or even in like the thousands in a year's time um, who will take them. The one hard thing that we have is the being able to pull our data. it's not the best because we have a a module integrated into to Drupal to be able to pull those stats. Um, and so we can kind of see those raw numbers of like how many times has have people taken a quiz, but we can't always tell then if it's the same user who's maybe like repeated questions because you do also have an option to restart. Like if you get it wrong, then you can restart and reanswer. And so we can kind of tell from like timestamps like if it was likely to be the same user who's answering the question over and over. Um but it's not like a hard line like yes we definitively know this. Um so it's kind of a a take it with a grain of salt. Um yeah. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> All right. Anybody else doing anything similar and having success or not as much with quizzes? I'm looking for that study. Yes, that old link is no longer working. So, I'm hoping it's still up somewhere, but um I This is Lori from uh Washington Law Health uh Northwest Justice Project, and I joined late. I'm sorry, but um uh I I love the idea of quizzes. I think that's a really fun idea that we could use. I was just going to share one of the new things that we added um when we redesigned our launched our redesign site in May is we now have a listen to feature for all of our um content that's uh just integrated and it's you we use speechify and um I'm of course locked out of Google Analytics right now which is really annoying because I was trying to give you all some stats about this that maybe I can share at a later date when someone helps me get back into Google Analytics. But um but I I know that we've been a little surprised and disappointed at the um at the usage of it. We thought it would be a more popular new feature than it is, which so but we haven't I I think we need to do a little bit more digging about sort of who's using it and why. And even if it's not getting a lot of usage, if it's helping, you know, a specific population, especially of low literacy users, then it's all to the good. Um, one of the things I and also what I don't know and would love to find out is um, if it's getting more or less usage on our Spanish site. So, we have a Spanish mirror site and speechify actually supports several languages beyond even Spanish. But, um, so but it it will read in Spanish which is totally awesome. Um, so that's but what but the nice thing about one of the nice things about speech bias is it's just automatic. it's easy and you know so if we update the content we no one has to re-record anything because I totally feel the pain about keeping um updated uh updating videos. We have we've had a pretty robust YouTube channel for many many years and um as part of the redesign ended up retiring a lot of videos that we just weren't able to update and and you know we have a wish list and someday when there's time [laughter] we'll redo them. Um, we did find that videos, we used them a lot during the pandemic, especially because it was a way to get like kind of quick real-time information up, but of course almost all of those are stale. So, we've pulled but um and we've done some kind of podcasty type interviews with some of our family law attorneys sort of talking about um strategy and changes in the law. And those were long um but actually pretty popular. >> Fantastic. Great. Um so um Lori mentioned there uh speechify or other I've forgotten the there's a jargony term for um u kind of read out loud um thing. There's a plugin for for Drupal for instance. other people um using them that have um any um thoughts on whether they're going well or not as well. I know that Ohio is doing a lot there. Um Rachel's in here today unfortunately, but uh anybody else? Uh have the rest of you or some of you considered and decided not to do um any kind of read out loud uh plugin? As Lori said, they they tend to be you sometimes have to pay for the service. Although um I was just working with um an organization who got it donated. Um so in fact got um um Lori, the same one you mentioned um speechify donated. Um so um uh so it tends to be fairly quick and easy. Have others decided not to use it um or just kind of haven't gotten there yet in the big list of priorities? I have a question. Um, for people who um prefer to hear web pages read out loud, do they already have something that they're using on their phone or device for all websites that they might just also be using on ours? Um, >> they could certainly I don't know. >> I'm just curious about the additional benefit of having that specifically for one website out of the hundreds they might use. >> It it would it would depend on I would think tech literacy. Yeah, Lauren, >> I was going to say, you know, as I've been talking about this new feature in in in outreach and community that it's it's not intended to be a substitute for um a accessibility tool that people use that people who need screen readers for everything that they're doing because of a visual impairment. Um people who who use screen readers have a screen reader and that crawls websites and that's why you need to make sure your website's accessible so it works for them. So something like the read aloud or the speechify is I think much more useful for a low literacy user who is probably not using a screen reader for everything that they have. Um and also just for the person on the go or that that in the car when you're you know we're we're all trained to listen to podcasts these days and that's you know just a different way of consuming information. So, you know, it's definitely not intended to be for a a replacement for a disability accessibility screen reader because also our speechifi we've we've limited it to so it's only reading kind of the meat content. It's not going to navigate you through the page. And also we so we do pay for speechifi. we they would have given it they gave us some of it for free but because um the character limits were too low so we were bumping up against that and so in order to get sort of the unlimited character limits that we wanted um we are paying for it I don't remember how much but I remembered like it was pretty nominal but one of the reasons it's pretty nominal is that we give them attribution and so there's a little like you know speechify tag uh next to the audio which is I can live with that. >> Yep. Great. Uh, and Amanda's added into the chat. Um, uh, yeah, you want to talk about Hong Somali, Amanda? That's a really great comment as well. >> Um, yeah. So, this was another thing that we had done kind of in conjunction with our many other projects a few years back. Um, and we tried this on a pretty limited subset of our um, of our content, but we had done audio on some of our Mong and Somali content. And we did that with the reason that um it at least here it's it seems that many of our um the folks on our stage or our content users um don't necessarily read in the language but it's more of a spoken language. And so we had tried doing those um readovers of the fact sheets for people who would prefer to listen to it versus try to you know scramble reading through all of that text. Um and similarly we found really low usage of those as well. Um and this was again like pre-AI tools and some of these other fancier tools like speechify now where it is an easier thing to maintain. Um we actually had to have our translators like read our fact sheets and and do these. Um and so we've ultimately taken them down just because over time as changes have happened and whatnot they just became inconsistent enough that um things were just too out ofd. But I do think that there's, you know, potentially some value in the tools that we see nowadays um in being able to to retry something like this again. >> Yeah. >> Can I ask for a pin on that topic? Um maybe for next time. Um automated translation and manual translation. Um I know some languages and some services the automated translation is really not good. And Amanda, you just mentioned some some of those limitations. And I'm curious about um manual translation and that cost and is that cost benefit worth it. And that's a topic maybe somebody else has dealt with. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's a that's a great one to Yes. No. A good call to put a pin in the other one. And I think to put a pin in in the automated manual translation um for another there was a number of people who were interested in it but it's a big topic. Yeah. >> So I think that's >> that's exactly what our like overhaul project is about right now is the the cost benefit. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um yeah I think a very short overview is that Google translation bad many AI okay some combination of AI and human best [laughter] um let's see but yes lots uh we actually um I can dig up what we talked about um for a future conversation to kick off a future conversation with what we we had a kind of a I don't know a 15inute overview of services and stuff like that. Um maybe one more person want to share something that worked or worked much less well than they had hoped it would last year before we do our great great wrap-up. I know somebody other than Amanda learned something last year. >> Last year I mean I guess this is kind of related to translations as well. we um gave up on staff translating our content and went with a company called Motion Point uh which also uh translates Texas law help which I I worked on prior to LAO. Um, and you know, we went through this process of getting bids and all that and thought it would be much more expensive than it turned out to be. And the service that we use, um, it is machine translated, but there is a human that translates part of it and then it trains the system and we gave it a style guide and then we have somebody now who um, goes through and just periodically checks to make sure everything is consistent. Um, and it has worked uh, well for us. We have a few things that we're still trying to work out as is Texas law help, but um overall it has been great for us because it translates any change that we make on the English site within 24 hours into Spanish. Um and it's basically the first time that we've had uh equity as far as our uh English site and our Spanish site and having all of our content uh on there. So that's been a success for us. >> Thank you. Awesome. That's exciting. Um, great. I'm going to actually add into the I'm going to use this um well, I was going to say that it's um um a self-centered action. It's more it's in the benefit of the group. I'm going to add some potential topics um into the chat here. Um, uh, and I'll say, um, uh, go ahead and All right, I need to stop typing while I'm, um, talking. Um, I'm going to add add some topics for potential discussion um, into the chat and go ahead and put a thumbs up if you would show up to talk for an hour um, on that topic. If you find yourself giving a thumbs up to absolutely every one of them, maybe be a little more selective. Um, but um, I'm just going to start typing in topics. I have about eight of them. Um, so just go ahead and thumb thumbs them up or not as you see them. Um, go ahead. Also ask questions uh, if you don't know what they mean. >> [groaning] >> Oh, the plain language training meaning for others. Um, so how do we train other people in plain language? Uh yes, GEO is AI findability. Um so that's the buzzword for AI findability or other things. Um, there's several. This would also be a great time to add your own um topic in that you would like to talk about. All right, that is my list. Oh, nope. I have one more. All right. And anybody please feel free to enter a uh enter a topic that you may not see there. That is Oh, Shenita had mentioned Oh, that actually two things Shenita had mentioned. Um she's mentioned that she is willing to talk about content parties um in more detail. Um so Elise uh and others who weren't with us. This is the idea of bringing um search uh sorry not search but um uh subject matter experts together into a room in a you know with pizza to get them to um uh uh review content. Um and Shenita was interested in earlier Ah, here we go. All right, take a minute um to look through this list of topics and um uh do your thumbs up um on things that you would be interested in seeing more on. We will take that and we will then do a wrap-up. All right. So, as you are doing your last thumbs up, would love to hear from you um one thing maybe into the chat one thing that you've you're taking away from today. Um, one thing that was interesting. One thing that was interesting. Wonder what's going to capture these thumbs ups. Knowledge quizzes on l knowledge quizzes on content pages. Thank you, Lori, for that. Um, it was a really interesting thing. I learned um that um the um people at least a few years ago were not as interested as maybe they might be now or maybe still aren't uh in ways to get um uh plain language questions. So that's kind of to me maybe a user research question other things. All right, I'm not gonna force you guys to keep typing. [laughter] Um, thank you so much for your time. Um, and for your um, great energy as a group as always. Um, let I will I'm I'll try to send out topics for the group a little more in advance. Um, I've been sending them out, you know, just a day or two before, which I know makes it hard to plan for. Um, thank you so much. Um, but we do uh do this particular day, I think it's the second Thursday, might be the third Thursday, um, in perpetuity. So, we'll see you again on the third Thursday of February. Thanks so much. Bye.