Waterways Advisory Board Meeting - July 16, 2026

Bosque is it Bosque is >> It is. Very good. We don't have anything to report at this time. There are certainly a lot of things going on in the city as a whole and also planning and economic development. So I would encourage everyone to subscribe to city connections newsletter that gives you a really great update of everything that goes on the city like a 5-minute review highlights and then you can dig deeper if you'd like. Thank you. >> Any questions for Michelle? I do have one and project that's over What's it called? The Carrillo Adobe >> Yeah, Creekside. >> Yeah, so what's the stat where is that in the process right now? >> Actually, I'm the project planner for that project. There has been no formal development application submittal. So at this point they've gone through concept review. They've had a neighborhood meeting and then we'll wait to see if they submit a formal development application. >> Okay. >> Right now. >> So on that note, I go out of my way not to engage in conversation with so many people about this project. >> That's probably a wise idea. >> And that's the company from San Jose, is that correct? >> Yeah, I um I forget their name. It's been a while since we've met with them but Swenson. >> Swenson, exactly. Thank you. >> Correct. And they've owned it for probably 20 years ago. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yes. >> But yeah, um no activity on it. >> Okay. Um Anything anything to add there? I was thinking Yeah. >> Vic just asked me why I won't engage in conversation about the Korea Adobe project. Might you review? >> Yeah, I think it's probably a a wise idea. We also as staff members, um you're representing the city, right? And you're representing the city as a of the Waterways Advisory Committee. So, if you're talking to someone in as a member of the public who comes to you with requests, um that may influence any not that you're taking actions, but you're reacting to a project that comes before you through the lens of the citywide creek master plan, right? Not through a personal lens as a person who's um just living in the community, right? You have a a guidelines for reviewing that. So, of course, you can mention something, oh, this is how we review projects. We're looking at it through the lens of citywide creek master plan, but generally speaking, when people want to talk to a member of a board or a committee, they're looking for some personal reaction to a project and it's wise just to um stay neutral. >> So, I reached out to city attorney initially. >> Okay. >> And she said number one, you can listen all you want. >> Mhm. >> Um but if you engage, you would have to recuse yourself when it came to this committee for review. That that's what she essentially said. >> Yes. >> Okay. Well, I think she was advice on that is just referring to the master plan. Um and I like the way you said it, the lens of the master plan, it's a good response. >> Yeah. >> Okay, will we move on to 6.2 and we have the water department Steve Brady in attendance. Um >> Come on up. You you can pull a chair. >> Stand here? >> Yeah. >> Good morning chairman Haykey and members of the committee. So, a lot going on in the creeks as usual. Uh right now our entire team for me is out. Uh we have a big event right now. It's called Creek Protector Adventure Day. So, about 70 children are signed up and this is on Hanner Rosa Creek along streamside near Flat Rock Park. Uh Uh so, they're they are learning about the plants and animals along the creek, all kinds of like craft type activities. Uh so, this is our third year that we've had this event and we tried to have it it's like a half day event kind of like a little summer camp along the creek. Uh and all kinds of activities. So, that's going on. We've still >> Creek Protector >> Creek Protector Adventure >> Adventure Day. >> And that's right now. >> Literally as we speak right now. >> right now until 12:00. >> Wow. >> So, >> Cool. >> Uh and we've been doing a lot out at uh Cole Colgan Creek with our phase three creek restoration. We had the ribbon cutting in late May May, I think that was the 21st. That was a great event to celebrate right the project and highlight everything out there. We had a great turnout there. I know chairman Haykey was there among others and uh that was great. Uh and we've been planting out there. So, so far we planted over 10,000 plants. So, uh way more planting than all of the other phases. So, the trees are small, but it'll take a couple of years, but I think we'll start to see uh a lot more trees and shade out there and it's been great just going out there. Everyone who comes by is just saying how great this is. They like to walk on there now and people with strollers, wheelchairs, you name it. Everyone's out there. So, it's been great. And then we've been busy with other creek events. And then once a week we have clean up crews, the supervised work crews from the county work with us to clean up in common areas and things like that. So, usually we clean up about 1,100 cubic yards a year with all of our clean cleanups. But that crew probably cleans about 3/4 of the amount of trash that we clean up within a year. So, the other kind of big news and a few of you have seen it, but Ollie the Otter is a a mascot now for our creeks team and has been in a few events. So, uh you might see Ollie around and we were at the Water Smart Expo downtown market. Uh That was in June. So, we were there with a booth and a great turn turn out. We actually really focused on trash and like what are the most common trash items that we find in our creeks. And we had a little activity for anyone that came up to try to rank the most common trash items that we clean up. So, that was great. And what are the cigarette butts are number one. And and it's actually not from our team, but from the coastal cleanup each each year. Cuz when when that happens you actually keep track of every trash item. So, a few of the people that came up were just really shocked. They're like, "No No one I know, you know, smokes anymore." There's still a lot out there. >> Wow. >> So. Uh so that's kind of the big things happening right now and uh always uh if there's creek issues that are not uh emergency, our creeks@srcity.org is a great email to send your questions or concerns. >> Thanks, Steve. Any questions for Steve? >> I do have one. But you guys do a fantastic job. We're lucky to have you and your staff. Um we had a Friends of the Prince Memorial Greenway meeting yesterday, 2 days ago. The topic came up about cleanups of the pathway and I know that's a little outside of your jurisdiction. Um but um there was an event coming. Was it a marathon or And the question came up, is there a cleanup that occurs prior to events that occur on the Prince Greenway? I always assumed there was a citywide city cleanup um before events, but that was very unclear in the meeting. Do you happen to know? >> Usually that that will will happen. A call will go out to parks and our team, too, before a big event like a marathon. >> Okay. >> So do you do you know when that event is? >> 22nd. >> Okay. >> My husband thinks he's going to run in it. >> Thanks. >> So I will I will make sure that's on our list. Usually there's kind of a call that goes out that week out. >> I assumed it was happening. I just was surprised yesterday or 2 days ago to hear maybe it wasn't. I don't know. But thank you. >> Yeah. >> From from the same meeting, um the murals on Prince Memorial Greenway are being addressed by um ArtStart. The city is funding it. Uh and they're being brought back to life in a tremendous way and well worth checking out. Right down there? >> Anyone else? I have a couple things that I ask on. So, on Colvin Creek restoration, uh we're on Heron the city's building a park department and a library. Is there going to be northern access and a a pathway for Colvin Creek through there? >> There is a plan for that, but uh there is still one uh private parcel between Creek parcel and the Heron Hub. So, that is planned and in the works, but it hasn't been secured that I know of quite quite yet, but it is the plan. >> I see. So, and then the funding for the the other portion of the of the restoration of the park, um do you guys have funding yet or where we at with that part? >> Well, that's our parks uh department and they did secure an open space uh grant >> Oh. >> for planning and possibly some construction fund funding, but I think it will take a little bit of time uh to go through the park planning the process and eventually construction, but >> Okay. Okay, that and then I don't I'm not sure if this uh falls under under the water department, but with the MS4 permit and the trash reduction, um there was a pilot study on Sebastian Pole for weren't you guys part of that or >> Yes. >> How's that going? >> Well, it it went well, but what came out of it was really, you know, with a tremendous amount of effort, you could control the trash there, which I don't think is really feasible to do citywide. Okay. Uh it did reduce the trash and uh right now we are doing assessments of uh a portion of the of the city cuz we did initial assessments around 2014 or so about what is the condition of our streets as far as trash goes. So, we're re-surveying those. And what will happen is ones that yeah, there is a lot of trash, we'll need additional measures will need to be implemented. >> Yeah. >> And and education, outreach, cleanups, control devices >> Yeah. >> potentially. We're kind of concerned about those though because we have a lot a lot of leaves and street trees, which is great, but all those things will get clogged and actually cause like street flooding. So, uh we're trying to do a combination of things, and we can get a offset credit for trash that we clean up with our creek side of the team. So, that's been helpful. We're doing that anyway, and now we can get credit for that to count towards removing trash in our creeks. >> And I think you probably know this number, but how many street drain inlets does the city have? It's a a whole bunch, and they're not all the same, are they? >> Yeah, some are catch catch basins in the curb or drop inlets, or some are a combination of of those. But, with structures, which I believe counts the manholes, too, I think it's like 18,000 something. >> Yeah. >> So, there's a lot of inlets, and then even outfalls, like I've heard from peop- people like, "How come we don't capture all the water and treat it?" Well, what I've heard, we would need like five Laguna treatment plants to treat that, which isn't really feasible. But, really the harder issue is our outfalls are all over the city. They don't come to one point. So, we have, I think, on the order of like 1,400 different outfalls. >> Wow. >> Wow, that's another challenge. >> Yeah. >> I just asked those questions to give the committee a a sense of the challenges that are being faced for trash reduction. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Anything else to ask you? Okay, thank you. Um, I don't see Sonoma Water here, so uh we'll move past 6.3 and we'll go to the scheduled item. Um, who's going to be Is that you? >> Yeah, Alexander Segarra here with us today, transportation planner. Present. >> Yeah, Alexander Segarra, I'm the active transportation planner for the city of Santa Rosa. I'm here to present on the Greenway Connectivity Study. Are you going to be bringing up the slides or >> Um, I you can share it from your Zoom. >> From the Zoom. Okay. >> Yes, then there's a share button. >> Okay, now I should present or what? >> Didn't quite get the presenter part. >> Um, So, yeah, um I'm here to let you all know about the Greenway Connectivity Study. This is an informational item. Um, just looking for folks to to access our survey, which I'll have a link at the the end of this presentation so that you can give us your uh input on that um through the survey. So, um the Greenway Connectivity Study is is a was started through a federal grant. So, we have a federal grant um that has been kind of funding this process. Um, it is trying to connect the Southeast Greenway with the Prince Memorial Greenway. So, if you think about that, we have, you know, Santa Rosa Creek there, we have Matanzas Creek, I think even Spring Creek potentially that some of these routes go by, right? All this stuff that we're going to be doing potentially will be surface level, so we won't be touching the creeks at all. It'll all be on public right away that we currently have. Um, so yeah, let's let's move on to the next slide. Is that the right one? Uh, yeah. So, if you look at this this depiction here, you got the the big gap. That's what the circle is. The gap in between these two greenways, right? So, currently, right, we have the Great Prince Memorial Greenway that connects all the way to this, you know, along the Santa Rosa Creek Trail, um, all the way out to to West County-ish. And then you also have the Ridota that connects through there. There's also the SMART that that does a really good job of doing a uh, north-south um, connection for people walking and biking trying to get around town using all different forms of transportation. Um, so, you know, we are really appreciating the fact that there is this Southeast Greenway that's going to, you know, be able to connect people to the outdoors, kind of feel like, you know, a Central Park in essence, and get you to all of our favorite parks here. I know I grew up here. Um, you know, born and raised. Um, worked for the city for 18 years. So, I've seen a lot of different changes, and this is something that to me is very, very exciting, right? You got Howarth Park that it's going to connect to Spring Lake in Annadel. I mean, what more could you ask for, right? Um, hopefully we can make better connections to the Southeast Greenway, um, through other projects as well. So, like, Farmers Lane extension is a potential in the future, too, um, to make that a trail and a path to to connect to Taylor Mountain as well, cuz that's a crown jewel that we have as well, right? Um, anyway, back to to this project, which is trying to create a low-stress um, connection between the Southeast Greenway and the Prince Memorial Greenway. Um, we have three different alternatives, right? Um, and uh, and I'll I I guess I can talk about the goal a little bit just to figure out how to close this gap, right? And we're looking for community input on on that. Um, part of what we hope to achieve is to have more of a park-like setting along our streets as well. So, there is the potential to add those features as well. Um, to this so that it doesn't just feel like, you know, you're going through roadways the whole way, right? And hopefully we can create that very beneficial connection that gets you from each uh, each different great Greenway connection, right? So, our three alternatives, um, here's a picture of our three alternatives on the screen. You got alternative one, alternative one goes along Sonoma Avenue, Hamann to Hoen, and then to the Southeast Greenway from the Prince Memorial Greenway. Um, then you got alternative two, that kind of goes along Sonoma as well, but then through Doyle Park, and then uh, along Hoen, along the Santa Rosa Creek, right? And then um, all the way to the Southeast Greenway. And then alternative three kind of goes through the neighborhood. Um, so I'll talk in more detail on all these three different options um, as we move along here. So, um, as you can see, currently once you get off the Prince Memorial Greenway, um, you know, there's pretty wide walkway, and now we created this, you know, class four, they're called class four protected bike lane. So, you can go bi-directionally um, and connect, you know, either to to Synoma or um, to First Street. And so, part of this connection is try to to to create an all pitches and abilities connection between the two parks, uh, the greenways. Um, so, each alternative kind of runs along the same course until you get to Synoma. Then after that, the two first two alternatives will will head east and then, um, alternative three, like I said, is going to be going through, uh, the neighborhood. >> Just really quickly, just for clarification, when you say bi-directional, >> Yeah. >> we're talking about two bike lanes, one traveling that way and one traveling that way, or we're talking about one protected bike lane with two ways of traffic? >> So, we have we actually have both on that Santa Rosa Avenue connection, right? So, you have on the the the west side, it's bi-directional, um, class four protected bike lane, right? And then, on the east side, you also we put in a protected bike lane going, but that's just one direction. >> One direction, got it. >> Right. Um, and that was just something we added on into the project because we we thought it would be beneficial, right? >> Thank you. Sorry to interrupt. >> That's okay. Um, so, moving on, um, to alternative two, um, alternative two runs right like through These are just different depictions, but runs through Doyle Park. Um, Doyle Park is obviously a pretty amazing park. Um, growing up here, you know, I didn't actually have a lot of access to it because uh, I lived on the west side of town and I didn't necessarily know about that. I I also didn't even know about Annadel for the longest time. Um, it's so weird how you can live in a city and if your parents don't take you to certain places, you just don't know what's out there. So, um I knew about Howarth Park cuz we always went there, right? Feed the ducks, all that good stuff. Um but yeah, Annandale was something that came later through soccer. A coach took me up there and then I started taking everybody up there kind of thing, right? Anyway, Doyle Park, beautiful park, I love it. Um uh that would be the connection and then going along the creek on that Hoena Avenue path um all the way up. And trying to make those connections uh low stress and all ages and abilities. So, part of that um the the Doyle Park Hoena Avenue connection would be, you know, at times you would have protected bike lanes, but you could also have it's called a neighborhood greenway. Um neighborhood greenways are places where we like try to slow speeds down by adding speed cushions, um speed tables, things like that, or traffic diverters potentially to divert traffic so it slows the roadway down and really makes it safer for all ages and abilities. Um if we're doing alternative one, it would be more of that protected bike lane all the way down to Harmon Drive. And then obviously on Vallejo Street alternative three, um you'd be going and doing um more of the neighborhood greenway type type uh features with, you know, speed cushions and some kind of other traffic calming features. So, just kind of talking about this more as you get closer to the connections, right? Um you know, along Harmon Drive we actually have uh a project that is going to be part of our slurry um that will be adding bike lanes to there right now and hopefully potentially slowing down some of the the the traffic there. Um I know that currently like I go over there my daughter has choir, people really speed through that area. Um I'm like this is a neighborhood area with a lot of pedestrian activity going to Montgomery Village. Think that people would go slower, too not do. So we're trying to add bike lanes there to kind of narrow the the speeds. Um narrow the lanes so that speeds slow down. Um that's kind of a I don't know if you guys have noticed but a a a progression that we've been doing is trying to like narrow things down, slow speeds down by by design. Um So moving along, this is just a depiction of what uh Sonoma Avenue could look like with uh it's called parking protected bike lanes. So you still have parking, you wouldn't lose that. You would have like a median of some sort, some raised feature, and then the bike way going along um the sidewalk, right? So very protected, very comfortable. Um and that would be used in two of the alternatives, right? And then hopefully it would be used all the way up to uh Farmers Lane and then I don't know if everybody's seen Farmers Lane recently, right? We have the new bike lanes there also. That's a traffic calming feature with bus boarding islands. That's a new feature for this area. We haven't had those historically, but other cities have do done them before and they're very uh they've been shown to be very beneficial for people, you know, boarding buses as well. It gives you kind of like a little bit more space when you're trying to get on and people with wheelchair accessibility issues. Um And then also being able to uh ride your bike up and over in a protected space. Um it's pretty nice. I keep telling cyclists and people walking around there um because I've had some feedback already. It's a shared space, right? It's not a place for for people to go fast. Shared spaces are where people need to go slow and look out for each other, right? So, in those bus boarding islands, obviously, you're going to have ped and bike conflict. But, hopefully everybody can share the space and be accommodating. So, this is just more depiction of what like Doyle Park could could look like with more accessibility and like creating more of a route through there for people biking and obviously there's tons of people already walking through the park. We have so many trails along there and so many connections, right? There's the connection that goes over the creek that goes to Vallejo Street, right? So, imagine being in that neighborhood and being able to come onto this, you know, bike way connection slash walking connection that feels more like a park. Um, and then also being able to to go up through Hoening to the Southeast Greenway. So, all this talk and this this is a depiction of Vallejo Street, so more of a neighborhood Greenway type atmosphere. I can as you can see there's like a speed table there or a speed cushion and those are meant to slow traffic down, calm traffic so that people, you know, walking and biking, crossing the street, right? Potentially. It creates slower speeds and hopefully safer for folks getting around town. So, this would be more what the the connection if you went on alternative three, how that would look like um, with traffic calming features. But, I don't know if you can see the sign. I'm pretty sure this would be like our wayfinding. So, you would use wayfinding to let people know how to get from Greenway to Greenway. The wrong way, sorry. So, yeah. Um we have a survey out right now. Um and we're really looking for a lot of feedback. That's why we're going to a lot of the different wards. We're looking for more people to to take the survey. We have about 500 plus respondents so far. Um so, that's pretty good. Um we've actually been to like Julia Park, uh planning commission, city council. Um I think we have uh a meeting next next week um on the 29th. Maybe it's not next week. Maybe it's the following week on the 29th. Um but yeah, we have a project web page here. So, this will take you to the project web page and then from there you can find the survey. Um so, thank you for your time. I really appreciate all of you. Um I know it's a lot of work to to come to to meetings like this and be on boards. Uh I plan to do the same thing when I retire. Um cuz I feel like it's it's a way of giving back to your community. I I really care about the community. I understand obviously you all must too. So, thanks. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Alexander, could could you pronounce your last name so everybody knows how to pronounce it? >> Yeah, it's Olse Garrett. >> Olse Garrett, okay. Thank you very much. It was a great presentation. >> Yeah. >> When is the close When is the survey close out? >> Uh I believe in September. Um >> We got So, we got a little bit of time. >> Yeah, yeah. We got a little bit of time. >> Okay. And then what what type of questions do you want to hear from us right now? I mean, I Is it more about the presentation and the outreach or is it about the alternatives? >> Uh I think it's about both, right? Like so, like I can obviously take your input now, but like the the easier way for me is obviously if you go you take the survey. The more people we get to take the survey, the more information that we could log and kind of decipher through those to see which alternatives people like the best. Um, you know, there is the potential that yeah, maybe people like alternative two and three, right? And then we might do like if there's a high number for both, right? Then we could potentially do more of them improvements in all the areas, right? Um, that's what you know, I guess I'm not supposed to give my opinion, but that's what I would like to see it. So, more improvements the better cuz like if we can make our streets safer for everybody and make it easier and more accessible to walk and bike around town, like it's only going to, you know, make our community better, right? >> So, in the survey did did you talk about um did it discuss how much parking will be lost? How much parking will be lost? >> I I don't know if there actually will be parking lost. >> Okay. >> Um, there might be situations where we could potentially have to remove some parking, but um so far in most of the alternatives, I don't think that that would be the case. I think that we would be able to not have to worry about removing parking. But if that did that potentially is in the survey. Um it's been a while since I've looked through it, so um sorry about that, but um but yeah, um that would be good input too is if people are worried about parking lost. >> Yeah. >> Um, I don't I don't think it'll be a huge amount if we do have to remove some. Um, and obviously we will talk to our community about that when the time comes if we have to >> Yeah. >> make those decisions. I know that's always a hot topic. >> Yeah. >> Um >> And those decisions will be analyzed with any alternative, right? When they when that's preferred. But I I um for Alexander's presentation, the best way to participate is the online survey. You can take your time with it. Get all your comments down, and then they're actually in written form for um the transportation planning staff to review, right? And they look at all those. They um quantify all of them and have them all in a written format, so that's the best way to participate. >> I'm looking at survey now. It's a great survey. >> It is. It is. And it can take some time if you want to be thoughtful about it. >> Um these are good questions, and I think sometimes it's helpful because um and that is why staff is doing this because often times it is just the people right around the particular park, the greenway, who get involved. And there are other people who will be using this, right? It's a connection all throughout town. So, that's important to have everyone's feedback. >> Yeah. We've actually been going to schools, too, and like the kids have been giving feedback, and that's always like the best. It's like going to schools and interacting with those folks, you know. It's uh it's been nice. Um so, I don't know if all of the schools here like we went to to Montgomery. I think Trina's going to go to another one. Um but yeah. It's good to get like like all ages kind of feedback. >> Sure. Carol. >> So, um I ran into Trina uh outside of City Council Tuesday. She was on her bicycle, of course, and she answered my first question was, "Are these all financially feasible?" And she said, "Yes, they've all been looked at." All three of these are doable. >> Yeah. >> Um but I didn't ask her if we could look at um the Valeo Street neighborhood slide Can I liken this to a beautiful version of Humboldt bicycle Boulevard? That this is not just a bicycle lane. This is bikes and cars sharing a roadway with slowing speed bumps. Is that correct? >> Yeah, so you know, hopefully we would be able to do more than that. So part of like Humboldt, right? Is big. Uh there's different ways to to calm traffic, right? And so some things are called traffic diverters, right? So what you'll do is like say like vehicle traffic is driving on a roadway. So say humble, right? You would put a diverter so that people tend to get off of it instead of using it as a cut through. Um >> What's a diverter? I'm sorry. >> So the diverter usually goes like across the street so that you as a driver can't go all the way through, right? So it'd be like think about at the end of like a a cul-de-sac or something like that. You can't go any further, right? Um So it'd create that type of feature potentially. Obviously, we'd have to get feedback from the community and to make sure that they're okay with those types of things. >> Can you give us an example an existing sample? I'm thinking Shanate Humboldt essentially there's barricades where you cannot continue on this street. You have to go the other way. Is that the kind of in your car? >> Yeah. >> by the you know, armory which is adjacent to the 101. Um there's a diverter in in like between the JC not at the JC, but I walk the dog in this area. So I know the diverters. There's a diverter in there. So there's like a little street that you can go down and instead of being it be to continue down it, you have to >> So it's a physical barrier basically. >> So like it's called Illinois. Illinois If you go down Illinois, it has this like like it's become concrete there, right? And there was like there is some like rocks as well. Um and we actually added a cut through there so bicyclists could go through there still. Um but for the longest time it was just diverted so people couldn't cut through there, right? And um I think that created a better space for the neighborhood, right? So like people on either side of the Illinois people weren't cutting through as much and then like speeding to try to get to the light at um what is it? Like >> Steel. >> Yeah, it's Steel Lane. >> So how do these diverters play with first responders who need to be able to get their rigs >> Yeah, so there is ways to adjust uh like wheel pathways, right? Um in other jurisdictions they've done that. Like we haven't had to do them here because there's access usually on both sides, right? And it it would have to be based on like, okay, so fire response or what or you know emergency response of any kind, right? Seeing where at least for fire where their stations are and see if it will affect them, right? Um because if you have and see if you have like a station on either side then that that's not going to be an issue, right? Per se. But we we would also try to make them in a manner that you could drive over them as a first responder kind of >> Right. >> Like there's there's ways to design these things so that it's not completely closed off to everybody, right? Or you could add some kind of bollard system so that they can just pull the bollard kind of thing. Um there's there's definitely workarounds for that. >> Yeah. There would have to be I would I would imagine it would have to be something that and particularly an engine >> Yeah. >> with a wheel clearance and you do a something like this that they could drive over that doesn't help with police cars necessarily or maybe even an ambulance. >> Yeah. >> Cuz they don't have the same wheel clearance, right? So, I'd be I'd be interested to see how that works out. >> Okay. >> So, thank you for that clarification. Going back to Vallejo Street, the closest thing that I can picture in my head for this is Humboldt Street, right? Um, the uh added feature with the um green strip looks like we have lost parking there. Right? And it kind of does a pattern where you've got parking, you've got green strips. Um, has it been decided who'd be in charge of maintaining those planting areas? >> I mean >> So, I'm on the park sport. Is this going to fall under the parks to to take care of these lovely spaces? >> I mean, potentially, right? If if we're building it out, then it would potentially fall to the parks. >> And you guys are the different departments are in constant communication with each other about this stuff. >> do communicate with each other. I'm not 100% sure if we've reached out to them yet. Um but yeah, it would it would probably be either a parks thing or if it's the frontage you know, potentially it could be the the homeowner, right? But >> These things will be looked at. If there's uh right now these are conceptual >> Exactly. >> alternatives. They're are hey, does this in general look good? The specifics that has not been determined or analyzed at this point. And these concepts, these alternatives will very likely change to some degree. But if we have a general sense of what makes the best connection that's feasible, um, they'll work with that and revise as needed. I I do have one more question and that is, um, we're looking at both today what works best, but you're also looking at spaces that may be redeveloped, um, growth, entire neighborhoods that may go in that will affect the traffic. I'm thinking specifically about the Medical Center on Brookwood which seems to be stalled indefinitely. If and when that ever happens, the amount of traffic on Sonoma Avenue is going to go way up. Is that you're looking towards the future as you develop these concepts, not just today's reality, tomorrow's potential. The city never seems to stop growing and, um, it this is something for the next 30, 40 years, not just for tomorrow. You you are looking at future traffic flow, infill structures, commercialization, neighborhoods, as well as what works today. I was I was also thinking about the baseball games at Doyle Park. Man, are you going by the ball field? >> Potentially, like Sheila said, these are all the finer details that haven't necessarily been ironed out, but they will be once a concept is picked, right? Um, the other thing to think about, like, so you're talking about traffic volumes and if we're thinking about how many people you can get through an area, um, efficiently, like, a bike lane can get people up more efficiently through a whole entire city than a car lane. A bus A bus lane, like, a bus specific only traveling, right? Hey, they can get so many people more through the city, right? The least efficient type of transportation is the car. Because you don't have as many people that can fit in there. And it's, you know, a certain amount of space, right? Whereas like a bus, right, is way bigger. And you can hold more people. So, those are the things you got to think about in the future if we do grow like from like a density standpoint, like up, like what type of transportation system's going to be more beneficial to get people through. Like we have a confined amount of space um already because there's buildings all over the place, right? That creates this geometric constraint. So, we're working within the confines of that to make things, you know, better for the future. And I I believe this is the way, right? Like this is the way you're going to be able to get more people in and around town. >> Right. And I I think Carol, too, um transportation's goal is to get people to where they're going safely, not to speed them up. That is not their goal. Um it's to provide alternatives, um such as these connections, but I think that's kind of a common misconception is there's a lot more land to to be widening roads. There isn't. Oh, so clarification, I wasn't talking about speeding anybody up. >> Great. >> I was talking about looking towards future realities as opposed to ideal situations. Ideally, I would have either walked or ridden my bicycle this morning. Hey, I drove my car. >> Yeah. >> Right? >> So, we >> not I am part of the problem. >> So, >> That's a >> I One more question and and then we'll close this off with Steve. So, um so now I'm avenue is pretty straight shot down to close to the Greenway. And you have it on HoWan turning right there and going down. And then to get into the Greenway, you'd go down to HoWan park by Montgomery High and then it would tie in to the very start of the Greenway. Um I'm not speaking of a favorite route or anything, but there was another idea that came to me as I was driving down uh Sonoma and that is the next street over when you go toward the east past HoWan is Franquette. And if you turn right on Franquette, it becomes a neighborhood street. At the end of Franquette is a is a creek with a small narrow bridge over it. And that takes you then to the other side of Montgomery High where the ball field is. The bridge is very narrow. One day perhaps it could be replaced with one that would allow bikes both directions. I'm just suggesting that as something to think about because then that avoids the going on Montgomery High School side and you know, hooking in that way to the Greenway. Or maybe it's an additional possibility. Yeah, you know, cuz we we can look at a couple different ways to get between planes >> two Greenways, right? >> Absolutely. Greenways. You know, we don't People Some people go one way, some go another uh to get to where they go. So, anyway, I just thought about that that Franquette possibility. >> Well, and I think now that we're talking about this, it's a great idea, great suggestion. When you look at these alternatives and you're taking the survey, those are things that staff is looking to hear. Is there some way as we mentioned, these are not set in stone. These are kind of conceptual, but with each plan is there some tweaking that could be done that could make it better. >> So, one of the things is we did look at Franket potentially already, but the problem is is the connection between Sonoma I mean, on Sonoma between Franket and Hamman, right? There's not enough talk about geometric constraints, right? There's not enough width there to add any bike lanes of any kind, really. There's like 4 ft of extra space, I think. And it's very minimal. It's something that really bugs me. Cuz it's like so many people use that area to like ride to Howarth Park, right? Like that's an easy spot to connect in from with Sonoma and Summerfield, right? That's your connection piece just going straight up. And that little spot is like the conflict point to where we seem to not be able to add in any kind of feature there. >> John, I'm assuming routes would all need to be ADA compliant, so that's going to add some width. >> Alexander, thank you very much um for the committee. I'll be asking you at our next meeting if you guys did the survey. So, plan on that. Um we I we don't have any public here, but I'll I'll again open it up to public comment. Seeing is there there's none, we'll close that out. Um I don't think there's any recommendations that we need to to do except I recommend everybody do the survey. And um the one thing I do really appreciate about this is that it's making the Southeast Greenway better known to the city because it's it's it's kind of hidden. Um all kinds of houses all around. You always see vacant lots on office reading. A lot of people don't even aren't even aware of it. And and this is uh bringing that awareness. So, this is where the survey also does that. So, that's really good. And then before we adjourn, I just want to point out we've been um maybe maybe not we, maybe I been asking for parking permits so we could actually do this, but now First Street is no cost for us. So, um you can park along here and there's no cost. So, and indirectly we got what we what we asked for. Okay, if there's nothing else then um we're going to go ahead and adjourn the meeting. Thank you very much for everyone's attendance. Thank you. And thank you thank you again, Alexander. >> Yeah, thanks. I guess we're now off record, right? >> Yes, we well