Waterbury Municipal Meeting - Special Meeting August 18, 2026 - Selectboard

This is the Waterberry Select Board Better Connections Demonstration Project special meeting August 18th, 2026. Um, we're going to open the meeting. The purpose of the meeting is to hear public comments on the continuation continuation modification or removal of the installation demonstration project installed demonstration projects elements around the water center triangle. Um this is in the area of the triangle green along portions of Maple Street, Gupp Road and Howard Avenue. and they include the crosswalks officially located and delineated in the area. The advisory shoulder areas on Howard with with Ballards, the advisory shoulder area on Maple Street with Ballards, the three-way stop at Guptal and Maple, and the narrow narrowed Howard Guptal intersection including the plantings and park. Um we've got this scheduled till 6:40 6:25. We do have another meeting after that. Um Wes Pollock, our uh template is here and he's going to help us with um calling individuals name. You've taken the list. >> Yes. >> All right. He's going to manage between calling folks to come and we ask you to come up to the table, state your name so that the recording picks it up and then he'll also pick for the folks that are on Zoom. Uh he'll pick you have to raise your hand digitally or electronically and he will uh tell us who's they'll go back and forth. We'd ask that um you limit the the your comments to three minutes so that we can get in as many folks as possible. And then um I would also suggest that if we're starting to run short on time, if the comment is consistent with one already made, we really want to hear different comments as well. So just keep that in mind. Um, I think if there's no questions on that, we're going to move to Duncan. >> Can I just read? >> Yes, please. >> I just want to reiterate that those five things that Martha Sask was mentioned is what we're discussing tonight. It's not about is this a waste of money, right? >> Or whose idea was this or why, you know, we're here because we as a select party have to decide what remains, stays, or changes. That's what we want to hear. We want the public's input, not about other things or other project. >> We want to focus to make sure we get as many comments as possible. >> Thank you. >> Um I'd like to have Duncan and or representatives of the better connection program to introduce those items maybe. >> Thank you very much. >> And you got to speak up for everybody. I'm hard to hear. >> So I'm Duncan McDougall, one of the volunteers with Better Connections Project. The reason this project came around is that for over 30 years, every town report has said you need to do something about uh bike pedestrian access and access of folks outside of cars. It's something the town has wanted to do. There was a VR grant that came up. The town applied for it. Got it. And for the past year, um, a consulting firm, Stantech, has been gathering information, seeking public input about what the concerns are, what the needs are, and what potential steps could be taken. They are just about to finish a final report, uh, which will be put up on the town website and made available to the select board, obviously, and that's going to have ideas and suggestions of some things the town could do. And it will be up to the select board to decide going forward which of those are worth pursuing. Uh I want to emphasize that the uh triangle green is a very small part of this whole project. U the whole project includes everywhere from Seuss to the um Waterberry Center State Park, Howard Avenue, Hollow Road, uh the triangle, Maple Street, and all the way to the post office. So this is just a small part of it. and the consultant said we would like to just uh demonstrate try some of the potential solutions. Uh this was a design that they came up with. Um it was discussed at a standing room only event um at the Graange. Over 80 people came, they provided input, they made some revisions and then they thought they would try it. And it's the kind of thing where you really don't know until you actually put it in the real world. Uh, and I'm obviously supportive of this, but there's still aspects that I don't think we should continue at all. Um, and I'm not g I'm gonna save time for other people. I'm going to save time for other people talk and I'll share my comments with the board. Um, but the last thing I'll say is I I understand there are very strong opinions on both sides. I I appreciate people coming out and sharing their opinions. Uh, originally people share their opinion about the Ballards along Maple Street. We very quickly took them down because it was clear that was too tight and not a safe uh design. So, we're we want to hear what works and what doesn't. The only other comments I'll share are for two people who couldn't make it today. The first two residents on Maple Street have both said that the stop signs are the best thing in years for them because they can finally pull out of their driveways or have fear of getting hit. So, wanted to share that on behalf of them. But otherwise, I'm going to leave it to um to other folks to to share their opinion. Thank you for gathering. >> Thanks. >> All right, Holly sign up. So, >> hello. I'm Holly Bush. I live on Louis Hill Road. Well, 91 road, but Lewis Hill Road, Maple Street area. Um, I've been here for 50 years and I turned 50 this year. So, I've been here a long time. either way. Um, so yes, I believe that some things did need to happen at this triangle. Um, I feel that the stop signs are a fantastic idea at the end of Maple Street. That's fantastic. Keep that. But what I wanted to discuss is when it first went up, there was an accident on Route 100 that shut down uh Route 100 between Howard Avenue and um we had to change everybody over onto G Hill. We went we witnessed it. I've got pictures of everything that happened. Um 18 wheelers almost came in slamming into people. Um, one 18-wheeler tried to come down through and tried to make a righthand turn onto Buckle Road to go to Howard Avenue, went down through and went basically he was off with his trail. Um, I just think that that is something that we need to keep in mind because that is the um emergency route when there is an accident. And um I can tell you that it did not work with the current setup that it was chicanees that those things all got knocked down. They were getting run over um you know it was not a safe situation. So that's just something that I feel that we need to keep in mind um in the future for this project. So thank you. Thank you. I'm Larry Nelson. I live on the corner of Maple Street and Howard Avenue. And I guess some of my concerns, one of the big ones is they have narrowed the travel lane on Maple Street so that from the edge of the pavement to the center line, it's only 8 and 1/2 ft. And that's barely enough room for a car. And when you watch dump trucks and gas trucks and garbage trucks and everything else go by all day long, that road is not wide enough for a walkway. As well as, you know, they need to put the center line back kind of in the center of the road. Uh because people on bicycles, especially the ones on this bicycle path to go through, they go up and down the street with traffic on the right side of the road. And you know when they come down my side of the road and the the travel lane only gives them 8 ft for a car and and a bicycle at the same time. That's a little ridiculous. I mean I give out here you mention your parking spaces out here. Those are 9 ft wide and we're talking about a travel lane that people are meeting in and it's not good to say nothing about and as far as the rest of it goes. I mean, we had a beautiful green space in front of our house and now it looked like some kind of a zoo with all the cones and pylons and bales of hay. And we even got a crosswalk to go out and look at the graffiti in the middle of the road. And another crosswalk that goes to the only unoccupied building on the whole park. And then the third crosswalk out in front of my house. Everybody still walked up and down around the corner beside my house. They don't use that. It's pretty much a waste. And it's, like I said, it's narrowing Maple Street down way too much. I mean, within 3 days after that happened, somebody clipped my fence out, my my wooden fence, which I think is 2 ft off the road because, like I said, that yellow line would trap everybody on, you know, under my lawn basically. Now, other than the fact that I think the whole thing looks pretty ridiculous. Guess that's about all I got to say. >> Thank you. >> I'm Mike Hedges. I represent the town the regional planning commission and the transportation advisory committee. Um, I also have had over 40 years experience with the agency of transportation and we've they saw quite a few changes over time when we were first trying to get a lot of capacity out of a system but later realizing that you can't design your way out of traffic. You have to make these transportation facilities work for all the users roadside users bicycles pedestrian military whatever. So, uh, the agency learned that decades ago and, um, I'm also, uh, a volunteer on this, uh, project. And, well, I guess if I were to speak as to what things I really like and what maybe would be changed a little bit to improve things, I like the stop signs. I think that really does a lot for traffic coming. um the uh crosswalks and and sidewalks um really make it more livable for people who live or walk and work in a area, but um I won't really weigh in positive or negative on those. I'll leave that alone. Um what I would like to see is um perhaps a widening of duct toll road a little bit uh as it goes by the the green and squeeze the parking spaces that are too long and wider than they need to be depending upon whether it's parallel or diagonal. So, in order to really keep those parking spots and I think it would be good if the town could maybe put in barriers from the from the green out to the utility pole that's in that intersection and so so as to restrict large vehicles taking a righthand turn there. Um because they've already got that opportunity in Pville to turn on the Maple Street. There's no reason. Um the other the other change that I'd like to see and it's not part of this project would be where Maple Street ties into Guptal. I'd like to see that intersection move north a little bit to the other side of that utility pole and that would bring the road into T so that elders can see both ways better. But it also allows better sight distance to the south on GULE. So that would be changed but I'd like to see but again I think the the stop signs charge are great for making the speeds fall very quickly the regional planning commission TAC came to view the the demonstration project. Some of these were representatives from different towns across the region and we happened to be there last month when the other crash on the one happened and we saw the bypass in full full use and we were able to stand uh there in where the mural is and safely observe the cars that went every direction. So I think uh it performed actually very well during closure. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> I actually can't see those hands. >> I don't and I live on M Street. Um I've been in water my entire life, 55 years. I've been living up there for since 1992. Um, I walk on Maple Street daily. Uh, I don't agree with the additional stop signs at the intersection of Guptal and um, Maple. Uh, not an area that we've ever had any issues with crashes, anything like that. I don't see that that's going to slow anybody down. Um, unlike what he said as far as being able to take a right on to Ga Road if you want to and not needing to turn right, if you kept going straight by the park to want to take a right, if people need to are trying to go to the Graange itself, they either need to be able to go there and turn or they've got to go up and then make an awkward left turn by Larry's house to kick back around by the Graange. So, to say people can't take a right in front like where the mural is, um, doesn't make sense to me. But the way it's set up now, you cannot take a right there without fully going out into the other lane. Uh the crosswalks are dangerous. Um the one that goes to the Graange, I've never seen anybody use it. The one that's coming up through where the Ballard still exists across Maple Street is very dangerous for people cars that are coming down Maple Street towards the park. You literally cannot see the stop point of that crosswalk where people crossing the road because the hole that's in the middle of that little tiny island, I guess you could call it, uh blocks view. Um the biggest issue up there is speeds. And whether it's between the post office, Maple Street, the first part of Lumis Hill Flat, the only thing that's going to be done to improve the speeds up there or decrease the speed speeds and provide more safety is adding speed tables and not the crappy little speed bump we had last year, which is better than nothing for foliage season. It is better than nothing. But I mean, I I live up there and we have cars going by 50, 60 miles an hour every single day. Um, and people don't slow down when people are walking, but speed tables would slow them down. So, as far as safety, that is the only thing that really would make sense there. Um, I do agree that the parking spaces are great by the park, they are too big. Uh, but on that corner by where the um, mural is, you need to be able to take a right there. So whether they cut those part spots back so that you can go to the right of that pole to take a right because right now with that pole there you literally like I said are going out to make a full righthand turn but you are entering travel. So I think it's dangerous. I think it's dangerous. I have from day one I've been on fire trucks when we tried to pull out which I know they pulled those down because it didn't work. Um the lines are way too narrow and it just became more and more of a hazard every time I went through there. So I don't agree with any of it. I think speed tables are the only answer to out there to try to slow people down and make it safer for everybody that lives in that entire area. >> Thank you. >> Hi everyone. My name is Havlin. Um and uh I was involved in some of the initial fan meetings for this. So, I got to kind of see the full spectrum of the project, which I'm um really excited uh about some of the things we were discussing beyond this, but I know tonight is this. Um I'm a mom of two young girls. I live up on Maggie's Way, so I'm crossing that intersection a lot. Um one of my kiddos has just started riding her bike independently, so I have mother's nerves around that. Um, so thinking about the future for them, I I really loved the idea of making this more walkable, more biteful. Um, I think that this project explores some really fantastic ideas, but as has been stated, I think some of them maybe could be shifted a little bit. I don't know where the crosswalk is or expanding the road if we're going to have that, but I'm in full support with that. But I think some of the issue might have come in just trying to fit it in too small of a class. So I I hope that's still explored. Um I actually really do like the stop signs um in the morning. Uh driving kids to school, especially um before the parking spaces. Sometimes people park way down there and if you come, you couldn't really see what was happening. And I like the confidence of driving up and knowing that whoever's on these other places will stop. Um, and I think I don't know about the parking sizes. Um, it seems like that could be looked at again, but I don't I don't >> Just can you be specific? So, you think the parking spaces are too big? >> Uh, I'm I'm not sure on that, but what I do what I do like is that they exist because I think they keep people off of creeping up too far on that intersection and blocking the view in my experience. So, that's something that's beyond me in terms of if they're too big or not. But, I like where they good sit. I'm trying to get the specific thing. >> Yeah, definitely. Um, so I'm I'm in support of both those elements. Um, I agree that the speed is really what makes me nervous. I don't live on the street, so there are people who might have more privity to to what's happening, but my hope was that having those stop signs there in a three-way stop would would also help with the streets. So, I think in general, I'm a fan of the stop signs and the parking uh and the the ideas behind everything else. Although I think the crosswalks could schedule even better. Thank you. Okay. For the record, Cam Delo live on 683 M Street have been on steering committee for the project. Um, the first thing I'd like to say, it's nice to see so many of my neighbors show up um and participate in this. And the participation in the project has really been uh has been excellent the whole the whole way through. Um, I am somebody in addition to living on Maple Street, I watch and I bike through there almost daily. So, I have firsthand experience with all of the all of the traffic things that um take place there. Um, I have to say I agree that, you know, it would be really great to have speed tables on Maple Street because speeding there, uh, is epidemic. And, you know, uh, one of the people already mentioned, you know, there's an accident on Route 100 not that long ago. And when I'm sitting in my living room, I first hear the volume of cars and then I hear the speed of the cars going past my house at 30 miles hour. So, it's it's a realish um speed tables would be an elegant an elegant solution. Taking the utility poles out of the middle of the intersections would also be a really nice and elegant solution. Uh I don't know if that's on the table, but I'll just say that start one by one. Um, I do have to say that I'm really in favor of the paint. And what I would say is, and I've mentioned this to Don and I've mentioned this to to Roger before privately, that if you look around in Waterbury Center, you will see that there is uh there are a whole number of significant intersections that have stop signs and they do not have stop lines. And you know, stop lines are used for a purpose. It signals the motorists, pedestrian, anybody that that not only are you supposed to stop, but this is where you're supposed to stop. So, um, so I'm really in favor of stop signs and the stop lines. I I have noted I made a point of observing going through where we have the three stop signs in the intersection. People are really doing it. I was a little skeptical at first, but my observation is that people are doing it. Um I do think the uh the crosswalks also serve a purpose. Um whether or not you actually have observed somebody walking in that particular crosswalk or not, you are signaling to people this is a place where there are going to be pests and you're signaling to motorists you got to watch out for the regression because somebody may be there. So, um, the ballards were perhaps a little overkill. As has been pointed out, the rightway is very narrow. Uh, and it's got to work. It's got to work for everybody. But I am wholeheartedly in support of the, uh, parking spaces, the stop lines, the stop signs, and the crosswalks. I wouldn't say I'm behind 100%. Move the utility poles and put in speed tables, and we'll be good to go. >> Thank you. >> All right. Thank you. Yes. >> I was just I was just guessing. >> So, I'm I'm David Loose. Uh, and I live on uh, Hollow Road just beyond the intersection with the park and uh, I am a member of the advisory board for this committee that designed this. I am a supporter of of this project. Um, my real experience with the the park and all of the new signage is because we always drive to the village, we go down uh GTO road. Uh, and initially I was a little concerned with the two stop signs. I got one at the corner of of uh Hollow and and and Howard Avenue and then I got one at the end of the uh park and that initially seemed like a a pain in the neck, but I've come to appreciate it uh because uh coming up from the village uh on Gopal Road, you get to the the turn to uh Maple Street and I a lot of that is a bit blind. you don't see the cars coming and uh it used to be and a lot of people and I'm guilty of it too come to a rolling stop and not a full stop at that intersection and so having the true stop sign which I initially missed when I when they >> I flew through it too but I >> I have come to appreciate that that stop sign and I religiously adhere to it in both directions and uh Many times I've had to share that intersection with someone on Maple Street. So I think it's working in the way it was intended to work and I appreciate it being there. The rest of the the I I I think the crosswalks are a good idea. I think there's increased parking along uh the uh the uh extension of of uh of of Delta Road going onto Hollow Road is the parking there makes a lot of sense. I've seen cars there almost all the time now parked there. Uh and and so I think it's serving the purpose it was intended to serve. Uh, as far as turning right there, I I've never done that because I I I don't have to go that way. Generally, if I'm going to want to turn right, I if I'm on Gupp Road, I would go up Maple Street and and do it that way. But anyway, I I think generally the improvements have been positive. >> Thank you. Marcy. >> Hi there. >> My name is Marcy Gallagher. I work for Local Motion, which is Vermont's advocate for safe and accessible streets. We've served as an advisory partner on this better connections project. Um, we also work with communities across Vermont with really similar projects. They often kind of invite us to come into their communities and and work on similar projects. Um, so I just want to provide some of the context there and first say that when we talk about safer street design and who we're designing these streets for. We're not talking about the confident cyclist or the, you know, the daily walker. We're talking about the person in a wheelchair, the parent with a stroller. We're talking about the kids. and want to talk in particular about kids because I think many folks who grew up in neighborhoods and villages like Waterberry Center remember a childhood where we were walking and biking to our friend's house and many kids today don't actually have that independence because of cars are bigger cars are faster um streets are generally so dangerous that parents don't feel comfortable letting their kids um navigate them independently and so I think all the strategies is tested here are, you know, one really common for demonstration projects across Vermont. Um, but I will say in particular, crosswalks are um really important for kids safety. My 16th month old nephew lives right across the street from Hope Davey and he's just learning to walk, but he already knows he's trying to book it over to the playground as often as possible. And there's no safe way for him to cross the street. And it's really important to teach kids to be safe, to look both ways, but it's as important to make our world and our street safer for kids. And crosswalks really give kids a predictable place to cross and give drivers a clear place to expect where people will be crossing rather than darting across the road in between traffic. Um, and also because speed is one of the most important factors in whether a crash is fatal, um, we should design streets so that slower speeds are possible. Um, road narrowing is a very classic way to slow speeds. Local motion for the record is also very in support of speed tables and and speed bumps to slow speeds. Um but in general the the ball art, the crosswalks, the street art, lane narrowing, all of these are tools that are used across Vermont communities and exactly these types of projects to just test out what does feel like it makes the street safer. What do we like? What don't we like? Okay, we think ballards are ugly. Can we replace it? Something that has the same effect but maybe looks a little bit better. And um we see time and time again that these changes are often really uncomfortable for people to get used to, especially people who have lived here and seen the neighborhood a certain way for a long time. But >> all right, Marcy, you're you're going over your time here. I just want you to do you have any specific comments on the five elements that we're looking for feedback on tonight? Yes, we are very fully in support of crosswalks in particular and uh lanes for people to walk and bike it. >> The crosswalks and the lanes for people to walk in. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you. >> Sorry, I just want to keep moving here. >> Hi, I'm Peter Holm. I co-own the gra my wife on Howard Avenue. Uh I first want to say uh I applaud this effort and support it goals um and I think it's a very valuable exercise this demonstration project from my standpoint few problems um which many of them have been expressed already. Um I do feel those are too narrow to accommodate the lanes as is and they should be returned for now. front. I do also support uh the long-term goal that was uh offered at the meeting that we had arranged that involves reconfiguring the uh intersection of of Howard and Maple. So that it's a hard turn for those of those people coming from Maple uh to turn on to Howard. Right now that's just a speed academy for them. It's too gradual. Um, also the Graange, uh, we've been allowed to park on on Power for all of our events and we've lost that parking of ours. It's been stated by somebody earlier that a patron ductal uh, doesn't have much choice or an easy way to get to the brain. They change. But it's a difficult turn on the hour. They go up people. It's a difficult left turn on the house. So, you know, I watch when we have events. I watch people arrive and that's a bit awkward for a lot of things. Um uh but I will say that you know the stuff the the cones and the ballers and and the paint has been very effective at slowing since traffic particularly at the beginning. I did see that people have gotten used to it and slowing them as much as it did at the very beginning. Um and I do support improving the access. So, I think if you could somehow look at widening Howard and fixing that intersection, you widen Howard into the in park. There's room there, but I don't think that would cost very much. You can accommodate both the parking as it used to have and pedestrian uh lane, the crosswalks. Um, I think the one across Maple should be moved farther up toward the toward the rec field and have any pedestrian access to the Howard Avenue side of Mayfield. Um, and that would help that I think you can utilize town right away for some of the pedestrian and it could be an effective way to go through the stop signs. like and I agree with Tom that the stop lines are very effective more effect I often see the line before I've seen the sign yeah >> I think that in past I've seen people come down Maple to Manda Howard and literally blows from the stop sign on and Paulo uh and since that line's been painted I've seen I'm getting the signal very much. >> You got >> Wes, there's someone online. >> Sherry, >> Sherry, what's your last name? >> Audio working. Um, Sher Nudson from Waterberry Center. >> There you go. All right. >> Yeah. So, I'll try not to duplicate. Um, I I agree there there are elements that probably work well. the the stop signs in particular, although the one from um is you if you're coming up Howard and you take a right onto Guptil, um that stop sign catches me by surprise every time because I'm just not used to it, you know, as I'm heading to the post office, so I don't know if better visibility. I haven't paid attention to the stop lines. I'll try to look for that. But anyhow, that one I I I'm constantly taken by surprise. Not that I disagree with having it there. I think my main concerns are um speed is the huge thing. I walk on Maple Street a lot. I live on Route 100 so I can't walk there. I drive up to Maple Street, park at Hope Davyy, and walk up towards Guild Hill. I have no problem sharing the road with cars. If a car is coming, it's easy to move off off to the side a little bit onto the grass. So, I I don't have a problem there. But the speed is is an issue. And yesterday I was I pulled out of somebody's driveway um on Maple Street and was just kind of getting up to 30 miles an hour. I was probably going about 28 at that point and a car behind me pass just passed me. He had to be going 50 miles an hour and you know a double yellow line. So I think the the controlling the speed on that stretch from the triangle up to Guild Hill and beyond is really critical. It's a long straight stretch. Um, uh, the visual I I know you're trying out a lot of different things at the triangle, but it's visually overwhelming and chaotic and doesn't make our nice little green look very welcoming at this point in time, but again, I understand you're trying out a variety of things. Um, in regards to the the walk lane, designated walk lane, I'm confused if it's a walk lane or a walk-in bike lane. So, I was driving from um well, let me just say I was driving where the Ballards are and the the walk lane is and there were people walking in the walk lane and then a bike was zipping along in the travel lane which made it really narrow for cars trying to go through. So, the the marking the paint what's painted on the road is a walker, not a walker and a biker. So, I'm not I'm not clear on the intent of that, but that's one concern. Another concern I have with the those designated lanes is I do worry that um people end up walking or or biking on quote the wrong side of the road. I mean, I was brought up to walk towards traffic and to bike with traffic and that's kind of accepted as the safest way. I really don't like walking with cars coming towards my back. I really don't like being a driver and having a bike coming towards me in my lane. So, that's my main concern with the the walk lane. And I think I'll stop there. Thank you. >> Sherry, appreciate it. >> Again, I'm Chad, >> especially if they're unique or we haven't heard them, that would be really helpful. >> My name is Chad Al. I'm here representative of M state parks. I'm also on the steering committee for the better connections. I just want to quickly point out as Dr. said this is just a small part of a larger initiative that we are strongly supportive of. As you know at the end of Howard ad is waterberry state parks entrance which welcomes an average of 40 to 50,000 people annually. As a waterberry resident I strongly support this initiative. My only criticism are the hideous orange traffic homes. Everything else works lovely, but those are the cameras are coming. >> Thank you. the actual words. >> Okay. I'm Jenny Brown. I was on the committee for the project. I also was on the select board from 2015 to 2020. And at one of those um I think two select board meetings, we heard from um young children whose um uh were with their parents and they lived on um Gil Road and the parents were concerned about their their sons um biking to the park and um I think um there was some effort there's efforts to reduce the speed on up road but I never felt that they really took on. And that's what this project is about is taking it on. Let's take on this issue. We have a very popular park. I live on Howard Avenue. I live what 75 ft from the stop sign at the corner of Paulo and Maple. I've lived there for over 35 years. And I have always wanted to reduce the amount of pavement around that corner at Howard and and Hollow and just deal with it. I think what's happened is that whole space has evolved over time. It's never been taken seriously and you can hear from all the comments. People are passionate about this. The the little triangle green is a gem and it has not really had the attention that it needs to to it doesn't have a name. We call it the center green. We call it triangle green. Let's give it a name. Let's let's make this a first class um intersection area for safer for pedestrians. And I telling you the I don't think it was addressed 5 years ago and and I think it's this is our opportunity and this is a demonstration project. Everyone has some things to complain. It's not perfect but it's tremendous opportunity here for us to analyze this. Um I perhaps we need a sidewalk facing the bridge. I mean this is a you know major attraction in town historic building. It's a historic area all around it. Maybe we need a sidewalk with the curb. That would be um mind-blowing if we will put it correctly. Um it doesn't exactly go with storm drainage which um I have experience with as a landscape arctic agency of transportation you need to have um closed drain system to get through. So that's a whole other thing but I I think it's um it's not perfect. Um I like the idea of a separated area. I like the idea of the stop signs. So sorry the the geometry at Naples and and GTO road is really messed up, but you can just slide around that slide right through the whole thing without stopping and it's just not designed by anybody that seriously for safety. >> So both safety and aesthetics and I'm also the chair of the tree board. So the triangle green or the center. >> There you go. >> Thank you. Have we got >> Yeah, we've got a couple thing that I was going to say. >> Is it Is there anybody that has not been So, I'm Margaret Loose. I live on Hollow Road. We have owned our house for 57 years. And I say that because some of my remarks go back to the fact that I've seen great changes in the center. Um, many more houses. Um, the development of Hope David Field is a real true recreation center. Um, people who like to hunt go up Mount Hunger. And what I'm seeing this time of year is a lot of people riding bicycles. I think when I first got involved with this, I was most concerned about pedestrian and auto safety because there are a lot of people and it's like Time Square. People kind of wander around uh because there weren't clear walkways and um so and and there were a lot of children. So, uh, and there was, if anybody, um, looked at it, there used to be quite a few complaints about speed on Maple Street and on G Road. And what we see on Hollow Road is people like that dip. They go pretty fast. >> So, that was my initial concern. But when I got involved with this, what I saw was that that what we have in the center, it's a really a jewel and it it's attracting people. People are coming, you know, for recreational facilities, family, but what I'm seeing more and more is bike traffic and it's just not one or two people. It is, you know, 12 people, you know, people with a van that are following them somewhere. Um, and that's my real concern because I am a cautious driver and there used to be people especially on Guff Road who had horses. They still have a sign up that says horses. Um, so I think I u, you know, was concerned about giving the horses plenty of room, but I am concerned about the amount of bike traffic that I see on Glo Road and on Hollow Road. Um, and I'm not sure how much is coming up Maple Street, but I think there's quite a bit that comes up Maple Street because of sto access. So I think that the park necessarily not only for pedestrian safety but also for the economic value of having the center of park, having the recreation field and having roads that attract uh people riding bicyclists and and so there's um I think what's happened with the traffic patterns is good. Uh I think people some people didn't like it but I think it's because change is always a little hard and um you know when we come out of Hollow Road and and go down the GO road it's always like oh stop you know but we we've gotten used to that and um thank you. So anyhow thank you so much for taking time to hear. We have Monica and John both in >> correct with Monica Ken co-founder of the Grand Tour Center. Um I grew up in the center. I have biked that since I was on a bike. Um so um it's changed a lot since I was biking as a child on a one-speed. Um, but you know, we we uh we need and we didn't need those things then. We need them. There's more children. There's more. So, I'm all in favor of it. I'm also on the steering committee. Um, all five things that we're addressing tonight are what you're in favor of. >> Yes. >> Okay. I think you just wanted me to So, if I understand it correctly, no. The only the only thing that has not been said is I want to put on the table the fact that um uh in 2016 the the center was um designated a village center. And we have to remember that when we think about all the parking that we think about um how we are uh the intention of 10 years ago when that destination happened. so that that uh that opportunity for the center doesn't doesn't go away. >> Thank you. Um because it's also a commercial, you know, there's there's a bit of commercial interest in there. Um which is why we're there. Um and there's a lot of people who keep asking us, are you going to start you going to do up the uh the general store? Are you going to, you know, do TJs again? and we're like, "No, somebody else got to do that." But it's definitely a need for people. So, those are the kinds of things that I'm thinking about. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. >> All right. Well, thank you all. It'll be >> Yeah, we have a whole meeting of in the park itself. So, not on the sides of the road, in the park itself, make sidewalks around there or an X through the middle. If you look like Maple Tree Place and Williston, they've got exits through the middle of their park, which brings everybody to all four corners of the park. It would get the people walking the road. If you pull the sidewalk, change your parking area. >> All right, we're going to close this. um hearing or special meeting. I guess I would say thank you all very very much for coming in and for taking the time uh to share your thoughts and ideas.