Watch Expert Brutally Exposes Rolex ‘Waitlist’ Scam, Dirty Secrets, & Celebrity Fakes | Nico Leonard

This industry is my life. And I think that the watch [music] industry is lost in every way, shape, or form. It's never been at a worse place [music] than it is today. The attitude, the arrogance. The retail side of this industry is all with lies [music] and marketing. It is actually scary. Your customer should be number one. The customer is the reason of your company, not the other way around. >> So, is the waitlist [music] real? No, absolutely not. The watch industry tries to create a narrative for you to buy a watch. Rolex is not scarce. But yet they [music] make you believe that they are the rarest thing in the world. The mainstream watch brands have been telling fake and stories to sell their product. >> [music] >> What do they lie about? >> Just to be very clear, it's not that I am looking for enemies, but this industry would collapse if I would tell you the truth. >> [music] >> Nico, thank you so much for coming on The Iced Coffee Hour. Thank you for having me. We've been talking about this for a good a good amount of time and I'm uh I'm honored that I'm here. I've been looking forward to this a lot, and I want to start by getting your reaction to this tweet that got 30 million views not too long ago. It says, "If you're a guy in your early 20s, buy a Rolex. Go into debt if you have to. This is not satire. You can get a Rolex for four grand. Having a nice watch communicates status to women in business relationships. And if you buy it right, it will hold its value if not appreciate." I think that's the biggest load of bollocks I've heard in a very long time. I I I do agree that that watch shows status, but if you need that status to do business, I think you're I think you're overstepping the mark. I think you need to uh enable for you to do do business, you need to have have different talents first. But don't you think for four grand, it's pretty cheap to get in? >> Yeah, but if you go into debt for four grand, I think you have other problems to be honest. So, I think you need to solve that first. If if four grand gets you into debt, priorities first. So, everyone knows you as reacting to celebrity watch collections, calling out fake watches, all of this. I love those videos. I'm curious, how many watches have you currently bought, sold? What's your collection like today? I don't know the exact number of my personal collection, but I am pretty sure it's significantly over 200. I don't think I crossed the line of 300 today. Um but I like the amount of watches I I have sold personally or one of my companies is is is is a lot. What's the value of that? We turn over about say 35 million a year, so five years, yes, it's quite all right. It's a good number. What's the most expensive watch that you own? I would say 1.8 million dollars. Yeah. >> What is it? It's a piece unique, and it's a watch made by Audemars Piguet, and it's a prototype to the to an actual really important model. A watch that was never supposed to be sold. >> How do you get that? Um I knew about the existence of that watch for many years. Um but I never really had the money to to acquire that. It was quite early in my career. And the gentleman that had this watch didn't really want to sell it. And at some point he did approach me and said, "I'm ready to sell." And then I needed to go in debt to get that watch to get my hands on that. >> And how did he get that watch to begin with? I think he had a he might have worked at AP. And so, what is a piece unique for people who are not familiar? >> So, a piece unique is a is a watch there's only one off, but like you have variations. Kevin O'Leary has a piece unique on a watch which is different color stones on the bezel. You can call that a piece unique for sure. What I'm talking about is this is the actual prototype to a watch to a line of watches that was created. So, this was the first one that was tried and and and tested. It was also a watch without a crown that that AP only really done in 1997. So, uh it was really really special. So, a piece unique is a watch there's one off, a unique piece. How is it worth 1.8 million dollars? How much did you pay for it? And what what do the finances look like in in acquiring a watch like that? Yeah, do you just send a wire? It's like, "Here's 1.8 million dollars." >> Yeah, yeah, that was just a wire. Yeah, yeah, that because I like I know knew the owner, knew the collector for for for for some years, and that's just based on trust. And this was in the middle of COVID, and I actually had to cross the border illegally a good few times. This was crazy. But uh I bought it in the end in um Romania. So, that's where the watch was. How is it worth 1.8 million dollars? >> Well, it's worth as much as I am as I'm saying, but the last offer I got was 1.8 million. I can say >> for it? Uh >> [sighs] >> 300,000 starting. 300,000? Yeah. How did How did he let it go for 300? Well, I mean, that was at that point the value. This is prior to absolute hype. This is this at 300 was a lot of money like So, how did you know that watch was going to be worth so much more in the future? Because that's a watch that money can't buy. Like, I mean, you can have all the money in the world. I'm the only one that owns that watch. I can set the price. And I can say the value is more, but the last offer I got, which I declined, was 1.8. What offer would you accept for that watch? I can't say that because then all of a sudden I change the value of the watch and maybe someone comes in. But if you said 20 million dollars? Yeah, maybe. That would be I would I would accept 20 million. I can give it away. You have it, keep it. Like, that's not the point. The The point is that I love watches that money can't buy. I mean, it's easy like you see someone wearing a oh, I'm wearing my own watch. >> Two-tone Submariner. >> Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of people that have that. That's amazing, right? But that has a certain value on average because there's so many on the market. I have a watch. It's the only one. I define the price. And that's what it is. >> How often do you wear it? When I I bought it, I was quite skinny. I was able to wear it, and I enjoyed it. Not in very dangerous places. Europe is not very safe for wearing a watch of that magnitude, right? But then I became a wee bit heavier. Basically, I became really fat. And for that watch, there's no extra links. It's not like I can call AP and say, "Give me some extra links." So, that was a problem. So, I couldn't wear it for years. And now I can. Now I can wear it, yeah. So, when's the last time you wore it? Uh >> [sighs] >> three weeks ago. What was the occasion? Um seeing a very good friend of mine that is not well. So, I was just like, "Yeah, it's good." I like to attach memories to to to watches. >> Yeah. So, in terms of watches themselves, who should buy a watch? I think everyone should buy a watch. I think that is that's massively important. I think a mechanical watch, I think we need to define that. Yeah. Or make a quite a difference in mechanical watch and an Apple Watch, for example. I think we really need to split that. The Apple Watch is great for the industry. Honestly, great, right? Because it created a lot of wrists. People are wearing watches today that wouldn't have wear wore watches before. We're getting used to things on our wrist, right? So, that's amazing, but I think a mechanical watch is for a man the only real legitimate jewelry. It's important like I have kids. I I I bought my son a watch when he was born, and I wear that watch on every single one of his birthdays. And so, 17 times, he's three now. So, I wore it twice, and when he's 18, he gets the watch with the photo of me wearing that watch on every single one of his birthday. You see, you can't do that with anything else. Mhm. And I think it's a it shows that you're like don't get me wrong. You can buy a watch at 10 grand, but you can buy a watch at 200 quid. It's fine. But I think it's just important that you show that you take care of things. Do you think it's important? And style. What does a watch mean beyond keeping time? Well, that's for every person different, of course. Um like for me, it is a it's an accolade. It's a reminder. Um I don't really use a watch to tell the time. It's just a reminder for me of events, moments, uh a story. Attachment. I'm quite sentimental on that part. But for other people, it's to flex. It's to show I have money like like what what happened there with that tweet. I think it's absolutely rubbish. Uh I think everyone at some point in their life should be able should well, should is different. I would love everyone to have the possibility to spend that money on a watch. Because I think you deserve that. Everyone deserves that. And it makes you feel better. It's like buying nice clothes. It's exactly the same. What do you think are some of the benefits today though of owning a really nice watch? Let me give you an idea. All right. I always see this. If I see someone wearing an Omega Speedmaster, right? I always I like to speak with that person. Not because the Speedmaster is expensive, but because I always make a joke. There's a secret club between Speedmaster owners, which is when you have the hand set at at 30, you're a part of a secret club. That's a connection. Like if I see someone wearing a nice watch, I'm like, "Really cool. I want to hear the story. Why did you choose that?" It's a connection between people. There's not many thing like if someone wears a nice blouse or shirt or like do you walk up to a bloke and say, "Fuck, I love your shirt?" No. But you do that when someone wears a nice watch. And that's acceptable. And that's exactly It's connecting. I think that that's one of the most important reason. I've noticed that, too, with a lot of the people that we speak to. All you have to do is compliment them on their watch. As long as it's not something like too flashy or too like generic. Uh there was a dude that I was playing blackjack with recently. You're a gambler. I love it. >> occasionally, >> [laughter] >> but he was wearing this vintage Daytona and it must have been from like the '60s. And it was on a leather strap and it was gorgeous, but I complimented him on this watch and he like his eyes lit up because it looked like just an ordinary watch, but I saw this vintage Daytona and he was so excited that someone noticed the watch. And sometimes it's there's little compliments or there's little ins with somebody where they just appreciate that. >> Well, the thing is when you when you wear a vintage Daytona, you actually think about a watch. You you're you're in this industry. You're not financially or maybe work, but you're you really care. You care about history. Well, I would say if you wear a vintage Daytona, it shows you're very sophisticated. That person would always be very open have that conversation. So, what watch tells you that they have zero taste? Um well, if you wear a Hublot, you have absolute zero taste. Like or Jacob and Co. I think Jacob and Co. is is absolutely hugely embarrassing to be honest. Like I think that that is it's it's funny how like this industry is full with lies and marketing. It is actually scary, right? The retail side of this industry is the biggest lie you've ever seen. Like this industry would collapse if if if if I would tell you the truth. Like it would collapse. >> we're going to talk about that shortly. I'm curious that before we talk about that, why do you hate Hublot so much? Well, it's got nothing to do with aesthetics, right? That's just taste, but it's about the the they just come cornish me. Just a generic movement that sits in Hamilton and sell it for 20 x. Why would you buy that? Like that's not luxury. Like I I am genuinely what a watch says about you is well, I don't really I'm not in the position where I really care about what people think of me anymore. I've got enough stuff all over me and I've given enough people to be honest. Well, that was the beginning of my career. And I'm I'm different now. I I I I have nothing to prove anymore. I'm just like done, right? After so many years being doing that. So, I don't care. I can wear whatever. I can wear my own watch. I can wear a Rolex. I can wear wear a million dollar watch or I can wear a Tag Heuer. I don't care. It's a watch that I want to wear at that moment in time. But a Hublot is just a statement of I don't really care. I'm just lazy. I just watched Mbappé play promoting this. So, I I might just have 20 grand to spend and I'll just spend it on that. It shows that someone doesn't really care. Or what about Jacob and Co.? Well, that you're very very that you're too much on Instagram. That's what it shows. You're too much on social. You're very much influential or very very easy to influence by your socials. Are they worth the price? >> Not even remotely close. >> What do you think they're worth? Cuz I've seen I've seen the one where you click it and it has like the roulette thing and then I've seen >> I'll I'll get that produced for less than 2 and 1/2 K. Simple. Like that's how easy it is. Like less than 2 and 1/2 K. You pay a pay a wee bit for the gold. Like don't get me wrong. Like Jacob Jacob is a good designer to be honest, but like he's not a watchmaker. The watches are not made by Jacob and Co. It's a company that's called Concepto in Switzerland that makes that. And they do it for different brands, but like I mean it's not worth anything remotely near What do they sell for? Like to give you an idea, it's 80% off, mate. Like 50 I will challenge you. Anyone that watches this that is in the social space knows they bought the Jacob and Co. because they got 50% off from Jacob to make them feel special. But he does that with everyone. So, how special are you? It's just a journey, mate. You said that the entire watch industry would collapse if you said the truth. What is the truth? >> if the if the watch industry was actually honest which they aren't, this this industry would collapse. What do they lie about? >> Well, I mean look at IWC. I mean just to be very clear, it's a complete identity crisis. Uh I would say that that it's all about selling watches. It's all about Listen, I'm not mad about about about economy of scale. You want to you need to sell watches. It's a business, right? All good. But store is to sell a watch. Like IWC this year came out with some astronaut watch. IWC is known for making formal watches and Portuguese absolutely class. Portofino amazing. But all of sudden they want want to make the most complicated tourbillons. That's not you. That's not them. Like IWC is absolutely lost. Identity crisis. Worse than MJ or Michael Michael Jackson at his prime to be honest, but the watch industry tries to create a narrative for you to buy a watch. Right? And that's a problem. As well as that. The journey of buying a Rolex. I mean that's quite controversial to be honest. What do you What do you think about it? Well, what do you What do you think? I hate it. So, what really upset me was that I walked in to a Rolex boutique and I was wearing a 19018 Oysterquartz. And I thought for sure some sales associate would at least mention it. It's such a unique watch. And I go in there and the lady's just on her phone. She could not give a that I was there. And I just said, "Hey, do you have a Land Dweller? I just want to be able to look at it. I'm not going in asking for a Daytona. I'm not asking for an allocation. I just want to look at it." No. We don't have it. And then she was on her phone the entire time. Never asked any questions. She couldn't care and I left. And that turned me off so much. All she had to do is say, "Oh, where are you from? Are you a local? Oh, that's nice. Oh, that's That's an Oyster." Like I was so fed up with it that I left. But yeah, I I do think that's more an American thing because like the Rolex is their own problem, right? They have only one only really one boutique themselves and that's in Geneva. They actually care there. Incredibly passionate people. What you're talking to is someone that actually don't care. It's a normal job for them. If they're a sales associate at a Rolex or a sales associate at at some tire place or used tire place, I don't know what you have here in in in the US. It it that's more an American US type of thing. They just don't care. They don't know what you're wearing. They have no idea. And I noticed that in Vegas to be honest. I've I think the the worst of the worst I've seen in Vegas. I wanted to This is 5-6 years ago. I was one of the buyers specific Daytona and I mean the woman was on her phone. I have photos of that. I have photos of that. I'm like and I lost the plot that day. Like you're an embarrassment for a brand. You're representing the brand and that's a wee bit of a problem with Rolex because they don't control what an authorized dealer does or doesn't do and and they just don't care. Yeah, I didn't like it either. I went into a different boutique and it was display only and then they said, "Oh, but we have these pre-owned watches instead." >> Yeah. And I'm looking at the pre-owned watches and then I pull up on Chrono24. I probably shouldn't have done this and I said, "Well, here's the same watch, but this is 20% cheaper with box and papers and I could buy Why would I pay 20%?" "Oh, well, because you get it now and it comes with the Rolex I don't care. For 20% less, you go on Chrono24, get a top trusted seller. I hate it. Yeah, exactly. It ruined the entire experience for me. It like this point like this thing what you're mentioned, right? I think you're looking at a different way, right? You think that the watches are the luxury aspect, but it's actually the journey. Let me explain. Rolex is not scarce. Like it's not rare at all. Like Rolex makes in I would say 3 weeks what Patek makes in 1 year. Like Rolex is not scarce. But yet they make you believe that they are the rarest thing in the world. Right? So, it's funny. The whole thing is it they make you feel it's actually a privilege for you to buy a Rolex. To make you feel it's a privilege. So, the privilege in that part becomes luxury. Right? So, you need to be grateful that you're considered being able to buy a Rolex. So, you're waiting there. You're sitting there. Uh privilege is luxury in this part, right? Okay, you get the phone call finally. You can pick it up. Champagne. Oh, I've been considered. That's amazing. That journey. Endorphins going. Then you get a phone call. You can pick up your watch. More celebrations. More good Instagram photos. Hi, look I got my new Rollie by my course. Whatever, right? Then you have the watch. Then you own the watch. Then you wear the watch. It's like Oh, what's next? I want another one. Like that journey is the product. That cycle is the product. Not the watch. Not the product. That journey is is is the luxury. So, is the waitlist real? No. Absolutely not. How do you move up on that waitlist that's not real? This episode is in partnership with Airbnb. So, Graham and I just wrapped up a trip. We were in Austin for a few days. We filmed episodes with Togi, Chris Camillo, and Caleb Hammer. And honestly, every time we're on the road, we're staying at homes on Airbnb. It's just become the default. And here's the thing most people don't think about. When you're the one traveling, your place back home is just sitting there empty. And that's a real missed opportunity. Whether you're gone for a long weekend or a few weeks, you can list your space on Airbnb and let it work for you while you're away. If you've ever thought about hosting, but weren't sure how to manage everything from the road, Airbnb now has the co-host network. You can connect with a vetted local co-host who has real hosting experience and can take care of the day-to-day for you. A co-host can manage reservations, handle guest communication, and even provide on-site support so you don't have to think about it while you're traveling. So, instead of your home sitting empty, you could be generating some extra cash. Whether that helps you cover the next trip, your flights, or just goes towards something that you've been putting off at home. I actually listed a spare room in my house on Airbnb and I was genuinely so surprised how easy it was to set up, how seamless the entire process was, and it actually made me some pretty good money. I would actually recommend this to anyone out there that wants to make a little extra cash on the side. It's honestly phenomenal. If you're thinking about hosting, but want some help getting started, find a co-host at airbnb.com/host. How do you move up on the waitlist? That's not real. Well, let me put it this way. If you have a buddy at Rolex Mhm. or the Rolex authorized dealer, because we need to separate them. Rolex only has one shop. That's in Geneva. Rolex recently in recent years acquired Bucherer. Mhm. Incredible boutique. I must say the team very passionate young people that actually care. They actually care about the brand and the product, right? Like that's that's only in Geneva, but that's where what I've seen. You just need to suck it up. If you want the Rolex, you need to suck it up, and if that is not what you want to do, which I think you shouldn't be doing, just buy a watch whenever you have the money, and buy it on the gray market, and I would argue to say that the gray market is the true is the the truth of the industry. Like retail is just a bloody lie. >> But in terms of getting the allocation that you want, is there any trick? Is there any way to do that? Because I've seen these people on the forums that they're like, I go in every single week, and when they give you an allocation, you have to take it, and then you have to keep visiting them, and I text my AD all the time, and I become friends. I've even heard of them inviting their AD out for dinners, like bringing them on to like, you know, uh family experiences and all this to get close with them, and then they get, you know, the allocation. They keep buying it. Is is that the way to do it? Do you see what you say there yourself? That whole journey is the luxury aspect. It's all been a It's all a lie. Like Rolex is key in that. Like Rolex is the king in that. That whole journey of being uh going out for dinner, doing this, taking this person out, going in again, buying another one. That That That's That's the luxury aspect. Human Humans want what they cannot have. So, they do do whatever it takes. That's the privilege. That's the the luxury aspect of it. What you're describing here, that journey is the true form of the luxury aspect of Rolex, and that's what they try to sell. So, no, you cannot afford that, unless you your buddy owns the retail boutique, which or you say, you just make a deal. I'll buy this watch. You just be straight up. I was in I was quite straight up. I'll buy this watch for 400,000 Swiss franc. I'll buy that. But I want this watch and this watch within 9 to months. Can you make that happen? Yes. They have the Daytonas in the back. They do. So, I've been told sometimes they only get like a few Daytonas here. That's That's a lie. >> a load of bollocks. It's an absolute lie. It's the journey, and they want to keep you on that journey. And this is why I say, like if I tell you the real truth of how this industry goes, like IWC has tried exactly this. They understood that the cycle of you purchasing a watch, the cycle of the journey, was actually the one that sold the watches, not the watches, not the product itself. It was the journey. Right? So, IWC introduces the engineer, and they do exactly the same as Rolex, but it's IWC. It's an embarrassment, and they tried it. >> Yeah. Vacheron Constantin Overseas, nobody blinked an eye let heard, right? All of a sudden, this IWC of this this this Overseas, oh, best thing in the world. allocation only. All of a sudden, people started, oh, I can't get it, so I want it. The 222 launch, embarrassing. Very poorly executed. They have the watches. The production is easy, but it's the journey that they try to sell to make you Oh, make you part of that. >> Did you see the YouTube video where this guy goes in a Rolex boutique? I think this is in London, and asks for a Hulk. Yeah. And they say, "Sorry, we don't have one. Uh you can get on the waitlist." He's like, "Uh no, I'm okay." He gets a fake Johnny Depp, gets him in full, you know, costume as a celebrity, calls Rolex ahead of time, "Hey, we got a celebrity coming in." Gets fake paparazzi. Johnny Depp walks in. They walk him straight to the back, and he gets that exact watch. Yeah. That's why I told you. Like they have the watches, but the journey is for you as a normal bloke, right? The journey is that's a luxury. That's the actual product. That's why you want the watch, because you can't get it. So, then which watch, when worn, tells you immediately that that person has class? If you wear a vintage watch, that tells me several things about you. You care about your family, or it's a family heirloom, right? And it's funny. I I was with Amir for the WWE, uh my first wrestling experience. Uh I'm quite close with Joe, Roman Reigns. One of his agents or people business people that are around him was wearing a Oyster Perpetual, funny enough, and I noticed that. I was like, it could either mean two things, right? You just bought your first Rolex and didn't want to spend a certain amount, but I you looked very fly, or you looked quite well dressed and stuff, so I don't think that's the case, or it is something you inherited. He's like, "Yeah, it was my dad's." And I like, "I'll blow your mind now, right? Have you ever polished this watch or cleaned this watch?" He's like, "No." "Well, give me your watch." And I opened the clasp, and I moved the bracelet from the clasp. I was like, "See that? It's dead skin. It's your dad's." And he was like, "What?" And I'm like, "It tells me a lot about a person, right? That It was He was mind-blown, right? Like if you check your Rolex, right? Open up your clasp, you'll see you'll find the dead skin in actually. >> Oh gosh. Do you know whose watch this is? I've no idea. Who is it? Take a look on the back. Take a look on the back. Oh my god. Yeah. Was it so bad he had to sell it, or did he give it Did he give it to you? >> it to me. That's cool, like that's cool. I always liked him. >> He gave it to Jack on the podcast. Yeah? So, you're saying there's a bit of Liver King's skin on this watch? >> Yes. Smell it. Well, you see this? That's all dead skin. That black stuff. Look at it. Wow. Oh my gosh. That's funny, isn't it? Like Does this Does this appear to be real to you? Cuz a lot of people say a lot of what Liver King does is fake. Is the watch that he gave me real? >> that feels right, to be honest. Yeah, it feels right. Solid. Like the sound of a bracelet, you can't replicate that. Like gold, you can't really fake. Well, I'll tell you a funny story. Back in the day, Cartier was so bad at making watches, it's actually scary that people were just like like they were popular, but they were just so bad. Like their movements were like the worst of the worst. So, people did they made fake Cartiers from real gold. And they just put a better movement in that. And they sold it. Like genuinely, that was that was fake watch. Like you see a lot of Nautiluses today, like a lot. I'm talking a lot. I'll probably That's probably I'll If I have a WhatsApp chat, I can show you. It's offered today, like a proper Nautilus for like 20 grand. Like you think it's proper Nautilus, but it The case and bracelet are all after market. It's funny. Like And it's all real gold, like I mean, that's not That's different, but the sign that a link makes this this is Rolex. Speaking of celebrity watches like this, what celebrity has the best watch collection? I love that question. I love that. Well, I would rate a watch collection side. I would rate a watch collection a wee bit different than anyone else, right? I Like I said, I I I like to look at watches that money can't buy. You can have a gazillion dollars in your bank, spend 50 million dollars on watches, but it can all be AP, and I can buy every single one of them if I want to on the market. All I need is money. I don't need effort. I just need money. All right, that's it. I can Of course, I can talk Kevin Hart. I can talk about Mark Wahlberg. Amazing collections, but do they actually think about watches, or do they just buy whatever what they want? They Mark is always the first one with the newest Rolex. Yeah. And Kevin is always the first one with the new AP. Is that really like Is that someone that really makes an effort? Like thinks about it? Like that's what I love. True passion. >> Intention. Yeah. What about John Mayer? John is is an incredible watch collector. I speak with him regularly about certain pieces. Uh he has stuff that the world has never seen. Really, really insane stuff. Like double signed, but not by Tiffany. I can't tell you what it is. I we're talking I can't But but like double signed means a retailer that once upon a time sold a Rolex with their name on it, and it's absolutely gigantic. It is very John is is is very read into this. John, this is John's life. I am absolutely got it that he done that collaboration with AP, because that didn't help his status. He didn't have to do that. I understand he's passionate. He's in He loves watches, and and François Bennahmias, which I think is the best leader last two decades in the watch industry. I understand it. AP comes, you want to do a watch together, bring it to the world. You're a That really like the John Mayer connection with watches was so authentic. Like we called the green Daytona the John Mayer. It was authentic. It wasn't a marketing ploy. It wasn't designed by some marketing agency to sell that Daytona. No, he made a video with Ben Clymer about that watch or about his collection. He named that watch, and that watch was sold out ever since. Authentic. No marketing ploy. AP watch with AP marketing ploy, bam. It I I I think if he looks back to that, I'm pretty sure that he would have loved to do that differently looking back. What do you think he should have done differently? To stay away from that. Just being advised, don't attach your name to anything. Let it Let it run. Let it a thin authentically run. I think that that's the key. Because like I mean we're living in a world where everything is fake. We We need a wee bit of authenticity in our life. Speaking of authenticity, what is the best watch to get the attention of ladies? I love it. I don't think there's any watch. >> [snorts] >> Or a nice style watch. I is very funny. I was wearing um I was in Texas, Frisco. I love Frisco. I'm I'm I want to buy a house in Frisco, in Texas. I think it's brilliant. And I was wearing a my white gold Day-Date pave dial full diamond set bezel and the ladies did notice that. Oh, that's yeah, that's uh What is that? It's funny. So that notice, but I have never been able to pull a woman with a watch to be honest. What about just in general? Yeah, I feel like a Cartier, like a good men's tank would do well. But it's not too flashy, but you know what? It shows class. It shows some sophistication. Not a single woman will know what you wear if you wear Cartier. It is a bloke that will know. So all you're attracting is blokes. Which is fine. They see Cartier and they're like, oh I like No, they see a watch. Ah, it's cool. All right. Move on. Women absolutely do not care about watches. So you're saying that you've transacted, I mean in the nine figures, over a hundred million dollars worth of watches. You have never had a girl come up to you aside from that one experience to compliment your watch. And like No, it's always a bloke. It's always been a bloke. And today twice with my watch. Twice. The driver that dropped us off, oh cool watch. And at the hotel. So that's really interesting. So women typically are not interested whatsoever in watches. Maybe maybe it's me that I kind of uh that women are not very much attracted to me. That could be you. Could be a one as well. But I have never been able to uh back in the day dated with cars to be honest. So So if some dude is dating, you would not recommend buy this watch. Absolutely not. No. No. No. Would you recommend a car? No, I would recommend not to wear an Apple watch. That's a toy. Come on. Like I mean it's good. It's whatever. Don't wear an Apple watch. Like rarely and often or wear something whatever you feel like. So how would a man attract a woman in general? I mean be confident. Like you don't Like I to be fair, like if I put a watch on, a specific watch, I I wear a specific Nautilus or an RM or something really like specific, silent luxury or extremely in your face, gives me a confidence boost. Like I'm not going to lie. You would same as dressing nice. You want to dress nice, nice shoes. You want to feel nice. You wear a nice suit, right? Just that make gives you confidence. Same with a watch. Running a small business like the Ice Coffee Hour is just absolutely amazing. But let me level with you for a second. The back-end stuff is just so brutal. From payroll to taxes, compliance, benefits, it never stops and one mistake can cost you so big. And every hour you spend buried in that admin work is an hour that you're not spending time on the things that actually matter, like growing your business. That's why we're so excited to partner with our sponsor Gusto. 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It is no surprise that Gusto is ranked number one on G2's highest satisfaction products list for 2026 and trusted by over 400,000 small businesses. Switching is so simple as well. All you have to do is bring over your existing data and you pay literally nothing until you run your very first payroll. So try Gusto today at gusto.com/iced and get 3 months free when you run your first payroll. Again, that's 3 months of free payroll at gusto.com/iced. Once more, that's gusto.com/iced with the link down below in the description. Enjoy and now let's get back to the podcast. Here's a list of celebrities. Tell us what you think of their watches. Yeah. Minute repeater. Unbelievable. Split-second chronograph. Perpetual calendar. Holy skeletonized. How much is that watch worth? People have no idea. A split-second chronograph is one of the most complicated movements ever. They They This is not a watch to buy. This is not like you need to know what you're doing here, right? This is absolutely nuts. This is one of the most complicated watches that that AP has ever produced. It's insane. But he's not wearing that watch in that photo because he's wearing a aftermarket 15407. Good catch. All right. There you go. Kevin Hart. Kevin Hart. Platinum Daytona. Unbelievable important watch, by the way. Advanced Research Aquanaut. Interesting story about that. Ad- Advanced Research is a is a specific department. It's a special department specialized in innovations within Patek Philippe. And in this case it's about the usage of silicon in the movement. Well, give you an idea. Metal to metal in a movement scrapes, right? Silicon to silicon doesn't scrape. What happens to your watch when it constantly scrapes? It needs to be serviced regularly. When silicon is used, it doesn't really scrape. So it doesn't really need to have be serviced every time. So it increases the service intervals like years. So that's amazing. Fantastic. Really important watch. And of course the tourbillon which is class Royal Oak. Listen, this is one of those, right? I could buy every single one of these pieces tomorrow if I wanted to. So here's another one that I guess money just can't buy in terms of a collection. But what do you think? Is this a rounded collection, do you think? So I'm seeing the white gold 15407BC which is is white gold frosted. I see the 5990 rose. Very special watch. So I see Nautilus. I see AP. I see the same designer. Gerald Genta designed both. He's responsible for both. I see the Royal Oak Offshore. Again a Daytona, really important. Yellow gold Submariner. Plus Day-Date. I have that's the exact one here. Well, different dial configuration. Meteorite. The Gibeon meteorite Day-Date. Gibeon is a stone, a meteorite that landed in Namibia in Africa. And Rolex harvested it is harvested for the throughout the years. Well, you can't last 10 years you can't touch that stone anymore. But they've harvested that 20 years ago and they use that now in dial configurations. And a really cool yellow gold Daytona. I believe that there is like the Nautilus was a hype piece. Like these are all hype watches. Like Nautilus, Royal Oak. The Day-Date wasn't a hype watch, but Daytona was for sure. Yeah. I think it's a really rounded collection. But again, how much thought But maybe he doesn't care about it too much. He just likes just wants to buy. And that's fine, too. He just wants to buy what he likes. Change it up a little bit. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know the bloke on the left. That must have been gifted. Like Hublot doesn't sell any watches like like this now. That's 100% gifted. They've just given him the watch to wear. 100%. He gets photos of it. He gets publicity. So it's it's their marketing expense. Yeah. And then DJ Khaled. Well, he's a wee bit bigger here. So this must have been a couple of years ago. Knowing him is probably aftermarket. Um yeah, that that's quite sad. But he now I has a really serious collection forward pieces that money can't buy. I would love This is what I do. This is my work. And people have no idea. I actually manage about a billion dollars worth of watches, collections. That's what I do. That's my work, right? People ask me, what is your work? I manage watch collections. And I always look at the like look at watches that money can't buy. So that's what I That's why That's why I travel all over the world. So yesterday we were supposed to film this. I had to jump on a jet to get somewhere to pick up a watch that money cannot buy. Secure it off a client. Yeah. Wow. These celebrities You love watches. You love watches to a certain degree. I'm just excessively obsessed. That's what it is. So I look at small details. I look at things like that. These guys have have other careers. They They They're busy with other stuff. And well, DJ Khaled plays golf. I love golf. So like they don't want to go into that journey. But you see people maturing throughout the years. I've seen DJ Khaled maturing massively. Of course I have absolutely ripped every celebrity apart including DJ Khaled and they must hate me for the rest of their lives. Have you ever been wrong when you've called someone out? When I call someone out, my reputation is everything. I'm not wrong. I don't call someone out because it's a coincidence. I call someone out because I know exactly every in line. You manage one billion dollars worth of watches. Explain to me the business behind that. Well, it's quite of a new thing in the watch industry to be honest. Like that watches are seen as a luxury asset. Class. Like it's normal in the art art sector. Like you have people managing art collections worth gazillions. Like car collections even. All right. Watches and cars are actually really close to each other. Funny bit is I manage everything from acquisition to consolidation or to consolidate collections to sell like proper selling of pieces. Give you an idea. If you have 250 watches, you you are in a certain uh value bracket, right? You're you're worth something. Spend a lot of money on 250 watches. You don't want to worry about servicing every single watch, and every single watch is a different service interval. Same as every single car needs to be well, needs to be the trickle charger, needs to be that that needs to be managed. Usually, when you have a collection of that magnitude, you also have a different houses you live across the world. Where Where are your watches? You want to keep track of that. So, a real important part to understand this is that you need someone to properly manage that, depending what what a collector's goal is, of course, right? Every collector has a different goal. One collector just wants to collect every single watch ever created from this brand. And then you have another collector that that that that wants to see a growth of a of his of his investments. And he says, "I'm spending 25 to 50 million." 20 25 is well, that would be the absolute bare minimum, uh to be honest, but if I was to spend 25 million on on a watch collection, it's not that I I buy 25 million worth of watches. No, no, no. Like I help him with find them. We work together. We we we tailor that to what he actually wants to achieve. And and it's all different. And it's funny. I'm going to say something crazy. One of the biggest watch collectors in the world is a woman. And uh yeah, it's insane. I can't tell you who it is. >> she worth? I can't tell you. So, when you're working with these clients and they're wearing these watches, I imagine some of your clients have watches that are four or five million dollars. Have you ever had a client lose a watch? >> Yeah. Yeah, and my task is then as well to find out. How expensive was the watch they lost? Two and a half million. How do they lose two and a half million dollars? >> Well, you see it as two and a half million dollars, but when you have just a wristwatch or watch on your wrist, it's just a watch. And the funny bit is, like it can happen very quickly. In Vegas, you hear it all the time. You get drugged brought to a room and they walk away with the watch. Like you hear that all the time. Yesterday, I heard that from someone. What Wait, what happened yesterday? >> So, someone goes in a casino, goes drinking, is alone, a bloke, whatever, and and just I mean, meets a girl, girl uh is very interested and brings him up to the room. And he get drugged, and his watches are gone. One of which Well, he didn't I don't think it was a watch, it was wallet stolen. Like I mean it's what happened. And then how do you trace it down? >> Well, a Rolex isn't is difficult to trace down. >> Yeah. But specific watches, well, I can show you a photo of a George Daniels, right? I know the George Daniels only produced He only George Daniels is the most important watchmaker in the world, hands down, right? Without George Daniels, the watch world would have looked completely different. He only touched He only produced like 37 watches in his entire life. >> Mhm. And he's known as the He's the man responsible for the coaxial escapement that Omega bought. And he only touched 37 watches himself, right? 24 of which were wristwatches. So, it's easy to find. It's easy to find, because someone that steals that is going to have to sell it. And that person, he goes and sees, "Oh, that's a lot of money." Yeah, it's a lot of money. So, they want to sell that. That will always come on the market. And something that is so niche, so rare, yeah, that's easy to find. Did you end up finding it? That watch that wasn't a George Daniels, by the way, that got stolen, but yes, I did. You So, your client lost a two and a half million dollar watch, and you went out and found it. >> Yeah, I did. We don't have possession of that watch yet, because it's still in police custody now. Who loses money in that deal if you find the watch? Like does the owner just automatically just get it back? No. Or like what if it gets sold and someone's like buys it for 100 grand, and then they own the watch, they genuinely didn't know it was stolen, and then someone says, "Oh, that's my watch." Do they just have to get it back, and then the person who spent the money is just I'm not I'm not a legal expert, so I I don't know how that goes. In this case, the court case is Well, this guy is going to go to jail and the court case, and whenever that's finished, I think the asset is going to be released, but at least the asset now, the watch now is in possession of the police safely. So, until that is the court case is going, and that could be a year, two years, maybe. I don't know. But as soon as that is released, that watch is going to go back to its original. So, do you just take a percent or so of the billion dollars worth of watches that you manage? Well, no, it's not doesn't work like that. In acquisition or consolidation, I take 15% on both sides, sell and sell and purchase, right? But it's like um it sounds Like this The funny bit is we talk about this as if it was like something mad, but you know what the funny bit is? This is This could This has been going on for decades in the world of I don't think it sounds insane. I Yeah. >> been going on for decades in the in the automotive space. Like for watches, it's maybe a wee bit relatively new, but like if you have Say you have 200 watches, 300 watches, right? Like you need to you need to think about how you store those. Like those watches need to be serviced, and every watch is a different service interval. That that needs to be managed. That's also you want to know what the value is today. You also want to know and make sure that that value maintains, if that is your goal with collecting, and that is really important. So, that is one of the goals that's what we set out to do. I mean, it's relatively new in the public space for watches, but like it's been going on for a good few years. I would be personally one of probably one of the biggest ones that that manages that. So, if I'm just doing back of the napkin math, you said it's 15% of a billion dollars. >> No, it's not No, that's only acquisition. So, Yeah, so That's only acquisition in and out. So, meaning I my my margin is well, 15% of acquisition and 15% of selling. So, I take 15% of both sides from the buyer and the seller. It's not 15% of a billion dollar that I manage. The combined collection is 15 million. But it's very often Like I didn't sell those billion dollar watches. I didn't. The majority of Well, 90% 95% of those watches have already been acquired. But the deal is simple. Any watch that's been added or any watch that's been moved from that moment that we sign is 15% in and out. So, if they end up selling at some point in the future, then you would retain 15% of the sale price. I like to think that that is really that's incredible math. That's the absolutely unbelievable. I have never have to work again, but I don't think it work like that. How it works in that part is that the collection is going to be hand down, depending what the goal is of that person. But nobody is going to sell uh 10 million, 20 million. And I'm managing a collection for a couple of years. That doesn't mean that that is the end of the road. Like if I manage a collection for five, six years, and then the the the guy is finished, is done, or wants to move on, I don't have right to 15% of his collection. No, I have right of 15% of every watch that has been bought and sold from the moment uh he signed up. So, if someone's buying or selling a watch, what's the best way to both get a deal and to get the highest price on a watch? Is it auction? Is it Chrono24? Is it private party? Is it just reaching out? I would always say, if you want a deal, don't ever buy it from an auction. Well, very often, I would also say, if you want [snorts] to have a legit rate, auctions are not always the right place to do. Want to sell watch? Sell something really special? Auction is the way to go. All right? Private buyers, fantastic, amazing, but like certain watches don't need You don't need to look for a new owner. You already I don't have to If I if if one of my clients wants to sell his Patek Philippe or wants to sell his his one of the crown collections Rolexes, which nobody knows of or not many people know of, a crown collection is something You know it as you know of catalog, but above that, there's also another collection. If someone wants to sell that, I don't have to look for a buyer. There's 20 people that want to buy that, because every day passing, there's less and less in the world. Meaning that the demand will always be there for that, because it's so extremely collectible and important. So, like it's it really depends case by case. Okay. And how do you make sure you're not getting scammed as both a seller or a buyer? Because I've been thinking about selling this watch, cuz I never wear it, but I don't want to be posting on Instagram like, "Hey guys, >> you make a YouTube video, and you just like say, "I'm going to sell it." Fair enough. But how do I make sure I'm not going to get scammed, and how does a buyer know they're getting the real watch? >> Well, I don't know about how people can avoid being scammed. That's not really Like I have a I own a retail uh business, and we sell watches, and we buy watches, right? And I think it's really important to buy the seller or buy the person instead of going to the best offer, right? Give you an idea, if you have a Nautilus, "Oh, I can make 20 grand. Yeah, or 30 grand." They sell the watch to this dealer, the new owner registers himself as the new owner, and boom, the guy will never buy another watch again, because he's blacklisted, because he sold his Nautilus. In your case, it will be different, but I mean, I would argue to say just buy the seller. Buy the buy Like do business with people that you feel comfortable with. And that's the key. How do you get How can you avoid to get scammed? Do your research. Not about the watch, but about the people you do business with. >> So funny, Doug DeMuro said the exact same thing in terms of selling cars. He said you always have to buy the seller. When the seller has good documentation, the car is immaculate, you speak with them, that is a good sign. All right. Like I mean it's funny. Same thing. Everything can be You can find everything on online. Like if you search me, there's a lot of people that that that hate me, but there's a lot of people that that do like me. Oh, that weighs up, but like being so long on top of the tree is difficult without getting or try people to try to either do you wrong or whatever. Mate, I have been I've been lost fortunes. I've been stolen from. I've been Oh, you've no idea. Lost half a million. Uh I'm not going to go into greater detail right now with that, but like I've been that as well and I am someone that is very thorough. Right? And but certain situations are unavoidable. Yeah. But just buy if you if you just want to buy a watch or you just want to sell the watch, just do your research to the people. It's about the people you do business with. Speaking of cars, a watch really says a lot about you and I'm curious in terms of watch stereotypes that you've noticed. Yeah. And so we'll list a few of these and just give us your initial impression. Rolex. High school dropout. Why? Cuz it's just like love it. It's like I'm a high school dropout. I always wanted to have a Rolex. teachers, hate them. I want a Rolex. AP. AP. Um first money made, investment banking first money made, definitely money made, already has a Rolex or just skipped the queue and just went AP because he loves watching YouTube videos and people wearing AP. Uh loves hip hop. Um for sure loves hip hop for sure, 100%. Um yeah, that would be that would be AP. Patek. Either extremely classy, well-dressed, serious, very serious, very um thorough, very thoughtful. Hublot. Uh very uh very easy to be influenced and absolutely do not care. Maybe even being a builder, having a construction company. Richard Mille. Very insecure. Tudor. Someone that actually is not really that fussed about what people think of watches or someone that is on the beginning of his watch collecting journey. Grand Seiko. >> [snorts] >> I love how you done that. I love that. I have never heard a Rolex owner stating that this is much better than Grand Seiko. But I hear every single time without exception a Grand Seiko owner saying that this is better than Rolex. I would say >> [clears throat and cough] >> a Grand Seiko stereotype for someone that wears Grand Seiko or loves Grand Grand Seiko is uh someone that is just against everything. Just wants to be on the opposite spectrum of everything. Everything but mainstream. Casio. You don't care. You are just wearing a watch because it is bloody functional. Zenith. Love how you got there. Someone that is actually does his research. Thinks about is very considerate. Wants to buy a watch that that like he doesn't impulse buy a watch. That watch was never an impulse buy. Never. So a guy that is is genuinely wants to know more and realize that Zenith actually was really important. JLC. That's a really difficult one. That I like to I do like that. Someone that loves heritage and wants to not wear just doesn't want to spend the money for a Patek Philippe, doesn't see the value in that, but do want to wear something that is historically very important. Um I I really like the person that wears Jaeger-LeCoultre. Yeah. Let's try this now. Just one word. The first word that comes to mind. People who finance watches are stupid. People who wear watches at the gym are >> stupid. People who are concerned about losing value are I'm just you just you just rate it up and again the first word is like don't buy a watch. Oh, and it's one word. It's one word. One word. Ridiculous. Aftermarket diamonds in watches. >> Insecure. The Rolex waitlist is fake. The watch industry is a scam. The most overrated watch brand. Hublot. The biggest waste of money in watches is Jacob & Co. The biggest flex watch. Ricciardo. A guy wearing a $100,000 watch but broke is gambler. >> [laughter] >> A guy wearing a $100 watch but is rich is my type of guy. The biggest lie watch people tell themselves. That a walk that you can pull incredible women with watches. The dumbest watch purchase you see. People going into cuz people gamble to give an idea. Right? I know it's one word. Mhm. But it I can't There's impossible. It's impossible to make a People go on holiday and buy a watch tax free at the airport or cruise ship. Cuz they have no idea that that watch can be bought for even half of the price that I've tax free is when they just click on the internet. The cheapest place to buy watches you'd say is on the internet second hand. Yeah, or the UK. Now, when it comes to buying a watch, how wealthy do you think you should be to buy your first Rolex? Well, I'm not the greatest I'm [clears throat] not the greatest example for that because I'm an absolute degenerate and I have always spent every penny that I had into watches. So I'm not the greatest best example, but I think you should be able to I think for you for I think to consider it wise to buy a luxury product, I think you need to be able to afford it at least five times. Just to be on the safe side. Like I mean that would be I am not that guy. I went all in. My first ever Ferrari I put a deposit on a 25K and it was like 1,200 quid a month. And that was all the money I had. It is what it is. How often do you see people buying watches that you know they just can't afford it? I never do. I never do because I my business also never do does. We don't really do finance. Um But maybe they just scraped together all the money like they have 20 grand in their life and they're just like, let me go and buy this AP. I don't think I ever see that. I don't think the business has ever seen that. I don't think so. I don't know about people's like funny bit is with Americans, right? Americans are significantly more open than than people in the UK and Europe, right? I actually love America like American and like I love America. That is what it is. Right? >> [clears throat] >> Like people are so much so so like completely open here. Like I don't see that. And next to that personally I don't really sell watches below a certain amount to be honest. So I don't really know and those people are not really in that financial situation. We're going to name a few price points and you're going to say the best watch at each price point. Love that. $1,000. Tissot PRX, Hanhart. $10,000. 116610LN. Doesn't matter if it's with papers. Submariner steel previous gen. Unbelievable. $25,000. Why do I go back to Rolex again? That's really annoying. That's really annoying. We shouldn't be doing that, but um $25,000. One the 16618LN. Solid gold. RLB. 11 16618LB. The blue dial solid gold uh Submariner. Mhm. Right? But the older generation. You buy that for $25,000 easy. $50,000. AP. Chronograph. 26331ST. $100,000. A 3700. Patek Philippe Nautilus. $1 million. Vintage Daytonas. Specific 6241. Like something Paul Newman. Something really special. So I'm curious when it comes to collector watches like this cuz I'm really into the value aspect. What watches do you think are good or safe to go up in value? I don't think that any watch that you know about will go up in value. Well, that would be worth your time. 99% of the watches are not investment. Like the fact that you would know or you would think that that watch is an investment means it passes so many so many more people Well, so I would argue I would think the floating dial Zenith Daytonas are undervalued. >> Oh yeah, they're undervalued, but a porcelain Daytonas are are are are undervalued. That stuff. That's all undervalued, but like in the today's market like you need to understand that people say I'm buying this Rolex Daytona this this this new ceramic because it's an investment and then I laugh. I'm like what is an investment? 6% a year? Like I mean is that really >> I'm not talking about new watches, but if you if you could out of all the watches out there, spectrum from the 1900s through today, if there's watches out there that you think, hey, I think this is going to 10x over the next 20 years. Well, I for a fact there's there's Ricciardo. Ricciardo Ricciardo. Any watches that he touches is is absolutely You You've probably never heard of that. Have you? No. No, exactly. So that's why. Right? And You may have heard this here first. People have talked about it. But that's because I'm an industry insider. He only produces a handful of watches a year. Luca Soprano. You've never heard of that. Mhm. ADK Swiss Frank. That's where you buy his watches at. But I'm telling you that's the future. Aurelia. Young guy. Worked at H. Moser. Have you heard of H. Moser? >> Yes. Right? >> That one I got. Young guy. Right? Just just just became a father of his his his second child. Like we're talking real people that make real watches. Like this is the big difference that you don't get. Right? The luxury aspect of the watch industry is a is as far as you know is a brand. But as far as I know, it's the people behind it that make it. You cannot like you don't know any Rolex. >> But how do we know How do we know which ones are going to be the future FP Journe? Well, it's not that hard. But Rexhep is going to surpass FP Journe any day of the week. Simon Brett is going to surpass FP Journe any day of the week. Like those are independent watch brands. Independent watchmakers, sorry, correction. There's a difference between a watch brand and a watchmaker. That's a gigantic difference. Right? I thought this was the most funniest thing in the world. You had the British watchmakers days. Like that was like this big event. And I'm like there was one watchmaker and the rest were watch brands. How the hell can you call that the British watchmaker days? I think that's the biggest fraud ever. Like a watch brand and a watchmaker is a difference. Roger Smith was the only watchmaker that was on the British watch making days. That was the only one. The rest were just watch brands that with bracelets from China, movements from there. They just assemble a watch. That's not a watchmaker. You If you think you're a watchmaker by just assembling watches, you're an embarrassment to be to be frank. Well, you do not know if you buy a Jaeger-LeCoultre who made your watch. So, it's a mass product. But Richemont Jaeger-LeCoultre is owned by Richemont, so it's a conglomerate. Their business model is simple. Churn as many watches because that will give us profit. Aurelia, young guy, you actually make a direct impact on his life. He can only produce a handful of watches a year. Like that's a watch that money can't buy because it it's time you need. Same with Luca. Same with Rexhep. Rexhep makes Rexhep is the new FP Journe and above that. And people have no idea. >> How do you get one? Impossible. That's a watch that money can't buy. So, Is it How do I get on the waitlist? Well, you need to go to Switzerland a lot of times and be very nice to Rexhep and Have to take him out to dinners and invite the family. You're one of the thousands of people. Right? Simon Brett, exactly the same. >> He's not going to accept your lowball offer. >> walk in, is he going to be on his phone? >> Like the [laughter] lack Best I could do, could I get 50% off? I Jacob and Co offer B52 Exactly. Can you give me 50% off? Like the thing is, right? The reason why these independent watchmakers are such a success is because the mainstream watch brands have been telling fake and stories to sell their product. Hey, really quick, I just want to say that being an entrepreneur does not mean that you have to do everything yourself. In fact, the best business owners know how to delegate. 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Just visit upwork.com/coffee right now and post your job for free. Again, that is upwork.com/coffee to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That is upwork.com/coffee, upwork.com/coffee. Thank you so much to Upwork for sponsoring this episode. Now, when Jack and I were first starting the Ace Coffee Hour, we had to figure out everything ourselves from the best cameras, the best editing equipment, how to get guests, how to get sponsors. Every day was a brand new challenge. That's why if you're starting or growing your own business, you know how valuable today's sponsor is, and that would be Shopify. Shopify is essentially an all-in-one business platform. They support millions of businesses worldwide from huge brands like Mattel and Gymshark to entrepreneurs who are just getting started. And here's something that's insane. 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So, start your business today with the industry's best business partner, Shopify, and start hearing All you have to do is sign up today for a $1 a month trial when you go to shopify.com/ich. Again, the $1 trial is at shopify.com/ich, shopify.com/ich with the link down below in the description. Thank you again to Shopify for sponsoring this episode. The reason why these independent watchmakers are such a success is because the mainstream watch brands have been telling fake and to sell their product. IWC I would like mate, what do you call the island boys of more authenticity than IWC ever had. IWC is completely lost. Michael Jackson at his prime had a had more had less of an identity crisis than than IWC has today. It's mad. Right? Same with other several other brands. Panerai has no idea what the hell is going on. Like those are not those are not people that care about watches. The thing is like their marketing teams well, if you have marketing director of one brand you're only going to be a marketing director of that brand for like 2 years then you swap to another brand. >> say all this stuff, do you worry about lawsuits and getting sued? Where you just said that about Panerai and Panerai is like, "Well, wait a second. We do care about our watch We do We're not just a marketing hub." and then like slapping you with a lawsuit like cease and desist. Like you damaged uh Jacob and Co, let's just say because he's like, "That's patently false that we, you know, discount our watches 50%." I don't know. I'm just saying. I hear what you're saying, but I mean you have your freedom of speech. No, I've not been sued because why the would I? I'm telling the truth. Prove me otherwise. If I lie, if I give you misinformation, sue me. Show me. But everything I tell you, everything I say is the truth. So, if I make a statement and it's absolute the truth. Jacob and Co doesn't make a watch, it's Concepto that makes that. Simple as That's the truth. So, they have to now prove to me that that that well, or I need to prove that that it that they do that. Well, that's very easy. Like I'm not a Like it's not that I am looking for enemies all day every day. I just cut through the crap. I just want This industry is my life. Right? This is my life. This is not a money thing. I don't care about money. Right? I care about support. I care about how my son will see me whenever he is old enough. I stand for something. And I think that the watch industry is lost in every way, shape, or form. It's never been at a worse place than it is today. And it's sad. But it's not that people don't buy watches because they do. But it's the way the watch brands communicate. And this is why the independent watch space is so vitally important. And there is a watch a watchmaker, a real guy, a genuine person that works his ass off in design. Watches and biggest ambition. And I'm able to spend 3,000 points. Buy his watch. I not only make his like his day or his life or whatever. Like I mean, I'm actually making a direct impact. I'd rather see that than throwing a buying another Panerai and whatever. >> Mhm. Would you wear only Hublots for 1 year for a million dollars? Not for a million dollars, no. No, no chance. How much would you have to be paid to only wear Hublots? 25 million at least. >> $25 million. >> So, Hublot that To be honest, mate, Hublot that that I Like this whole thing was all fun and games at Hublots and this and that, right? But from the bottom of my heart I am really embarrassed for people that that have bought Hublot and I'm I'm just going to give you give you >> It's the same >> pisses me off, right? What you did, Jack. Right. It actually royally pisses me off on another level, right? I Hublot wanted to make a video, right? With me. Right? And I'm like, "Fine. Oh, let's do that. But I want you to make a donation to a charity which is important to me. Which is to make sure that children during Christmas have a Christmas present because a lot of people in a lot of kids in Northern Ireland didn't have that. Right? Instead of paying all those influencers and all those ambassadors, I want you to do one thing. I'll do I'll make a video with it. I'll let you talk. And we'll have an open, honest, and real conversation. And you can prove me wrong. I would love that. I want you to do this. Instead of you pay paying money to all those influencers, I want you to do one thing for me. One thing. 100,000 pounds sterling and I match that. Right? 100,000 pounds sterling to your charity that is close to my heart. And they said, "Well, I don't care. I'd rather give $2 million to 50 Cent for a uh launch of a watch to basically an influencer party. I'd rather spend $2 million to that than actually making an impact for the next generation. It's an embarrassment of the highest degree. I think that leadership at Hublot is beyond embarrassing. And LVMH needs to have a really good look at themselves because this is where Zenith meant in. This is exactly the same group Zenith is nearly bankrupt or they're going They're for sale anyway, the brand. Like they have same as um I obviously a big identity crisis, but we'll we'll not go into detail. But I think it's really embarrassing and I'm dead serious. Like 100,000 pounds for a charity or $2 million for 50 Cent to perform for some influencers. Did they flat out say No, they literally said flat out no. The CEO in the comments on Instagram said out no. No. A couple of weeks later, big event with 50 Cent for all their influencers. Honestly, everyone that wears a Hublot, I would love to have them have that feeling. Like this is what you're doing. Like I was genuinely wanting to be an open and make an impact together, right? I was open. I'm I'll I'll list We'll listen. We'll listen to you. I'll not be critical. I'll not I'll be straight. Let's have an open conversation and make an impact for the next generation, watch people. What is the best watch that Hublot makes? Never. None. I'm done. I I will never say Yeah, the the There is not a single one that you think is like a half-decent watch. >> I think what is it, the Big Bang? Is it the Big Bang one? >> one movement which I find funny, which Hublot also didn't make, was introduced in 2018. It was done together with a with Dustin Johnson. I think Marco created that. It's a me- mechanical golf counter, but the thing is super fragile, right? It's a mechanical golf counter. Uh I love that idea of that concept. The guy that produces that actually left Hublot and then started his own brand called Chris Cross uh studios, which is doing cool stuff, right? Like keep in mind, these are just brands. These are fronts. There's actually real people that have ambitions sometimes that behind it and start their own watch brand, which is funny as like Yeah. So, it it doesn't sound like you're very happy with what's going on with the current state of the watch market in general. It seems like there's a lot of hype, a lot of just mass-produced pieces, and most people are completely disillusioned the watch that they're getting is actually rare when reality it's they make hundreds of thousands of them. Well, it's not the state of the watch industry that I'm worried about. It's the fact that like I mean, maybe that's me getting older, right? Maybe that's me You remember when when your dad or your parents once said back in the day the music was better? Like maybe it's one of those. I don't know, maybe it is. But what I see today is just it worries me, mate. It genuinely does. I care about this industry and I care about these people. But on the other hand, the mismanagement of these bigger brands has created a completely different market, which I absolutely love. It's the independent space. We've seen that with MB&F. MB&F, like Max Büsser worked for uh Jaeger-LeCoultre. Um he worked um Like I mean, they all go independent and create something and actually make an impact. Like and that that's amazing. Like the the mismanagement creates a completely different economy on its own. Yeah. But I want people to just they really really like I would celebrate anyone that wants to learn more about watches, right? Because mechanical timekeeping devices tracking something that we haven't defined yet. Brian Cox, time is not a proven uh concept. We have all different calendars. They have a different calendar in China than we have here. So, time is not a proven concept. We're tracking something that is not a proven concept. But mechanical engineering of watches just like it's insane. It's actually incredible. Like I urge every single person to dive deep and learn some learn about that and the historic importance of how important like we wouldn't be able to fly today, like be on a boat, navigate. Like that's so important. And I love every bit of that. And then I hope people then I hope that people then really do their research when they buy a watch. And ideally in an ideal world, stay away from mainstream. Just go and support watchmakers that actually really care instead of the marketing being served. People have the goat debate in like the NBA. They say it's like Michael Jordan, LeBron James. They have it in soccer with like Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo. Who is or what is the goat watchmaker? They're both British. Right? And they both reside One is dead, George Daniels. He's the goat. He's the absolute goat. He wasn't even a watchmaker. He wasn't He was a mechanic. Watchmaking was not to be improved. It was impossible to be improved, and he improved it. Last person to ever improve the watch watch industry, by the way. Watch mechanical the mechanical aspect of watch. Last person. And his apprentice, Roger Smith. Those two, funny enough, would I would say are the goat. One is not with us anymore. The other one is working exactly as George Daniels set it out to be. And what is the goat watch brand? Well, the most important one in the world, which is 1/3 of the entire Swiss watch industry, Rolex. That's Einstein. Mhm. And although the luxury aspect is not the product, it's the journey, making you feel like that is that's the actual product. Right? Like you don't know, but the the journey is the actual product. Being able to be considered, oh, it's a privilege to be considered. And then being able to buy one, oh, they allow me to buy one. That feeling what you get from that, that's the actual product, not the actual watch. There's not a watch brand in the world that has ever been able to do that. Or not I would say Hermès would be in a different space, but there's not a watch brand in the world that can do that. How does Rolex operate as a nonprofit? They do not operate as a nonprofit. They are a profitable organization, but they're owned by the Hans Wilsdorf Foundation. So, Rolex and Tudor are both profitable organizations. Right? But they're owned by a foundation. It's clever. It's It's It's just how to avoid paying It's yeah. Tax. It's great. You should be a nonprofit. We really should. >> Yeah, because you're adding value, exactly. Be clever. You can't blame that. You can't Like I mean, the Don't hate the player, you got to hate the game. >> bank wire in the world is once a year, right? It I think it goes from It's Google. I think it goes from like the Bermuda, one of these islands, uh or from Ireland or something like that, like to the Bermuda. Like it's the biggest bank wire ever. It's just It's once a year. It's just tax. It's just like air licensing. It's amazing how you need to be creative, and Rolex is like very creative in that. Because our average viewer demographic is between 18 and 35, let's say for the average man under 40 years old, what would the perfect collection look like? >> watches and what's the money? Let's just say I mean, it's no money money aside. Amount of watches aside, just what would you say they should consider when curating their collection? >> Rolex Submariner as a sports watch, for sure, hands down. Or even a Rolex GMT. I think a Rolex GMT is the most functional movement or functional watch out there, and I use that every day. Right? For me, if I travel, Rolex GMT. I would say Submariner is just more because it's iconic. But like there there days in my life that I'm not under not at like 1,000 ft underwater, like I mean. A Rolex GMT is properly functional because you can read multiple time zones. I think a chronograph is vital. Omega Speedmaster. It's an incredible story with that because that watch was like it saved lives, that watch. Like and it wasn't even meant to go to space, but it saved lives. The famous 14 seconds Apollo 11. Or was it Apollo 12? Apollo 11. >> [gasps] >> I think that's really important. I think dress, right? And if there's no budget and if I can do whatever the hell I want, 6119. I think it's one of the most cleanest styles. Reason why I said 6119 is exactly the same case, but I Yeah. It's exactly the same case. To prescribe for an average viewer out there, cuz I would say our average viewer would probably not be you know, multiple Rolexes or multiple So, tell Yeah, that's why I was like budget. So, I I just a practical a practical, you know, maybe under $15,000. >> Under $15,000, four watches. I think a Speedmaster has to be in that collection. A GMT watch with a disk case, the Tudor Black Bay Pro, would be an incredible watch because it's very it's very affordable. It's Well, affordable is a relative term, but it's it's very accessible. Um and you have a GMT function, and it has the incredible heritage. Speedmaster, like I mentioned, because it's so important and it's really really cool. And as a dress watch, I would say this is actually mad that I'm going to say this. A pre-owned Chopard because Chopard is one of the only big watch brands that makes everything them- every everything themselves. Like every aspect of the watch is made by them. And I love that. And you can pick them up for like 60% of the retail price. You can buy an unbelievable Chopard for like five grand, six grand. I love that. I love that that as a dress watch. Does it matter if you buy a watch with box and papers? The modern stuff, uh no. That I don't I don't care. Vintage stuff, I don't care. It's not the watch that matters. Modern stuff, like I can't wear a box or a papers. But like if it's watches bought with a single purpose as an investment, like vintage pieces, well, amazing. Make sure well, does it does help, but papers do not certify or verify that a watch is legit, yes or no. Absolutely not. People say, "Oh, yeah, papers. Yeah, this watch is real because it has papers." Well, um if you can replicate a watch, do you not think you can replicate a a card, maybe? I want you to react to this clip. What would you say is your [music] worst investment of all time? >> I hate this watch. >> What do you What do you not like about it? >> Because it was a terrible investment. >> Can I see it? It I'd rather throw it. It's a house, dude. >> How much is that watch, Graham? It's got to be 400, 500. But I owned another one, a black one, that was [music] a million-dollar watch, and it was stolen from me. Do you have insurance on it? >> Off my arm. No, I didn't have insurance. >> Well, the black one that they showed in the photo or in the video, that that has never been a million dollars, but that aside, um I get it. I get it. Richard Mille has lost a little like it's losing a lot of value. I get it. And again, like I said, Richard Mille blew up in such a short amount of time that it was like like it at some point it's ignorant to think that this will always go that way. I get it. I get it. However, it is still a Richard Mille. Right? It's still a Richard Mille, and they have changed the industry a wee bit like that was the first and only real hyper watch if you compare it with the automotive industry. Like special. Here's one more clip I want to show you. Walk in rocking this watch and [music] it's massive. >> Yep. >> Alex is supposed to guess how much you bought that for. Okay, Alex. My guess is that that watch cost approximately $17,500. Alex. [laughter] >> I'm guessing 85. >> My guess is 35 because you got a deal and you could buy it at MSRP. I go to this place called Happy Jewelers, and he does a lot of athletes and stuff like that out in California, and he just so happened to get this [music] watch in stock. And I text him for months. I was like, "If you ever see this exact watch, let me know." I would love black and blue. And he says, "I got it in stock." And he's like, "I'm actually going to give it to you below cost of what I have it at." He's like, "Just because I know you're going to make content, it's going to help out, and I want to build a relationship with you. You're going to refer me a bunch of clients." Which I have, you know, now I'm talking about it on this podcast, right? So, I ended up getting it from him for like 42,000. [music] And I was looking at it on eBay the other day, and I think it was like worth 60 to 70 now. Yeah. You saw the watch? If it was any other jeweler, any any other jeweler other than Happy Jewelers, I would say it's bull. But Happy Jewelers, they're genuinely like that. They're unbelievable guys. Like if it was anyone else, I'd say, "Below cost? Off. Never." Happy Jewelers, I think are hands down in the US the best. I think they're amazing. And the brothers, hard workers. I have never seen a shop like it. The vibe is incredible, and if you're ever in California, I would highly recommend you go. >> what's so funny? That clip got millions of views. And when you think they discounted his watch, across all the people who That's free marketing for them. They probably I'm curious what their ROI was on that clip. >> Yeah. Well, there's maybe a clip coming out of that, but the brothers are genuinely they're nicest people you'll ever meet. Like Well, if there's if it was any other jeweler, any other watch dealer, I would say yeah. It's a good story, bro. Good luck. You're very you're very >> makes me feel good, man. It gives me hope that there's uh you know people like Graham can get really cheap stuff. Yeah, [laughter] exactly. Because he wants to be in the front row for a penny. You see what I mean? That's huge, by the way. Well, you were talking about how scammy the watch industry is. And so, going from Happy Jewelers, we got two thumbs up here. What are some of the tricks that you see throughout the watch industry that you want to call out? >> actually argue to say the gray market is the is the real market. That's the honest market. Like retail is a scam, right? It's a scam. Retail price is going up like it's a zoo. It is insane. Oh, yeah, cost of this and that and that and that. Mate, $200,000 for an Nautilus? Are you out of your mind? This is out of the box retail. Like I mean, the new Nautilus what they've introduced and it's to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the Nautilus. How much? I'm like, "Are you out of your mind?" It's a normal white gold time only watch, not even a date, $100,000 retail. That's a scam. The real value of a product is actually defined at the gray market, and I would argue to say that that is also the most honest variation, honest version of time. >> But now, I watch these YouTube channels where the guy he constantly talks about the tricks that people pull when they sell a watch. Like they might ship him a watch, and he looks at it and says, "This is an aftermarket dial." Yeah. >> Or this watch was somehow swapped to be this watch, and it's advertised as How often do you see that? >> I see that no in within our business not very much because I'm luckily in the UK, and in the UK people actually take accountability. But in the US, it's it's it's a big scam, mate. Like if you buy a watch if you want trouble and you want to be in a front row seat for a penny, Mhm. you go to New York. You will get over, and I promise you that. I'll put money on it. I put money on it. And it's it's actually an embarrassment. I mean, I mean, countless times. I mean, genuinely it happens more than it doesn't. Mhm. So, it's it is actually sad. But now comes the point, right? Have you ever bought a stolen watch? No, but I bought a watch that then was later registered stolen. Like that's funny, then the insurance trick. That's hilarious. >> What's the trick? Well, you sell you buy a watch, you sell the thing, you call your insurance company, "I lost my watch. Here's the serial number. I have the watch now. Done." He gets his money paid out. I paid him, so he got paid twice. And I'm sitting there, "I want to sell this watch, and now it's registered stolen." That's bad. >> It just seems like that's the easiest thing to get caught in because you have a a a People don't think, mate. People are only sometimes not using their own brains. It's hilarious. Do you not think that that will backfire? >> Yeah. Like it's hilarious, and this is also what you see in New York. New York is quite >> So, how often do you see fake watches? Not very often. You know what, right? When I started with YouTube and TikTok and stuff, right? It was all over the thing. All over, right? I remember the unicorn family. I don't know if you've ever seen like the That was mad, mate. I don't know if they still exist, but every other clip about watches was people flexing fake watches. Like I don't see that anymore on socials. Are the fakes just getting better? No. It's people are just more cautious with like sharing fake stuff. Like what watch busters and >> of you. Like I would I wouldn't I would I would love to think I would love that, but like maybe that's a wee bit my ego's maybe a wee bit too big, but that could potentially be. But I would have had a impact, but like fake watch busters and baller busters and I see it less and less, and I'm like, "Actually, that's a good thing." >> But do you think maybe people just get desensitized to it? Like there's so many people who wear fake watches that at this point they just stop saying, like, "Eh." I don't see online people flexing fake watches, not in I do see sometimes, but not in the rate that I've ever seen. What's the worst you've ever called someone out for wearing a fake watch? >> Rick Ross. Rick Ross, that was embarrassing. But he could afford the real one. So, why would it Why would it matter if he's wearing a fake watch? Well, can he? Right? Doesn't he I thought he has like a $20 million house in Florida. >> Yeah, but like you can find us that today. You can't find us a world watch of of that magnitude. Like to give you an idea, right? That watch is part of a set of 10 watches. That set was like 12 or 14 million dollars. You couldn't get that watch individually. That's how I knew. You couldn't get that watch individually. >> Would it be aftermarket? >> Yeah, it was aftermarket. It was fully custom. Okay. Mate, it was fully custom, and let me explain to you. You have a watch, right? And it says on the dial Audemars Piguet, right? The bracelet is however not made by Audemars Piguet. The case is not made by Audemars Piguet. The dial is not made by Audemars Piguet. The crown is not made by Audemars Piguet, but oh, it has an AP movement. Is that watch real? Or is that watch fake? I call it a Frankenstein. Why? Because the Because the movement itself is AP combined with other pieces, I just call it a Frankenstein watch. I wouldn't say >> watch needs a balance of 50/50, not 90/10. Like to give you an idea, right? I'll And there's another example. If I buy a BMW 5 Series and I make it look like with a body kit like an M5, do I have a fake M5? Well, that's the question. Right? >> I would say if you're But here's the thing. I would say if it has an M5 engine Yeah, but it doesn't. Now comes another point, right? A custom There's a big difference between a watch that's custom and a watch that is I would consider fake, right? That green watch that Rick Ross had was directly made to replicate this piece unique. That was at that moment in that MP piece unique, but directly to replicate that watch. Direct one-on-one. Well, a watch that's custom that's just iced out is not replicating nothing because that watch that they just never existed like that in the first place. So, that's not to replicate something. Like that green watch that that that Rick Ross had was a direct replica of the actual watch that AP made at that time one-off. Do you think he knew it was fake? I think he No, I don't think. But I don't I I Looking at the communication at that moment in time, 100%, but he was his ego was too big. What do you think about people who wear fake watches? And do you think it's wrong to wear a fake watch? >> it's wrong in every way, shape or form. I think if you're wearing a fake watch Listen, I've been on this journey when I was 16. I wore fake watch because I couldn't afford it. I was so insecure and I wanted to feel I wanted to be part of something. Like I wanted to be considered cool. Well, let me tell you, wearing a fake watch doesn't make you cool, right? Genuinely, it doesn't. I've been part of that. I get it. I understand it. But you're if you're if you're a bloody adult, you're 35 years old and you're wearing a fake watch. Like I mean But what if you genuinely like the watch, but you're like, "Eh, might not be worth the the retail price. So I'm going to buy a fake one." Oh, why would you Why would you Why would you support uh criminal activities? Like like pri- like like like copyright infringements. Why would you do that? Like a lot of people don't understand that the funds are very often used um Well, it goes hand in hand with drug trade, simple as. Let me be very clear. Cartels and drug trades. In the environment that some of those watches are being produced, >> [clears throat] >> it's shocking. Like I have been Well, I've been in China. I've seen some stuff that I wish I never saw, but it's quite it's quite poor, like. So what's your defense of fake watches? >> Yeah, well, like why why would you I buy a watch for myself, yeah, right? And can you imagine wearing a fake watch that's fake? And I'm like, I'm a fake I'm fake. I'm faking. I'm fake. That's all I am. That's all this is. I'm completely indifferent to it. I think it's one thing if you're trying to do it to impress somebody, but I think if you genuinely like the watch and it's the same thing and you just save the money, I'm pretty indifferent to it. Well, everyone has his own opinion, mate. I absolutely respect your opinion, but like I'm not going to lie, but like would you drive in a fake car? Would you do >> I I I want Would you wear fake clothes? >> I wanted a uh Would you like eco- >> a replica Countach. I want a real Countach. And that is motivating me to work harder. It is a motivation. >> guilty driving the Countach, the real one, because I'd be worried about putting miles on it or someone dinging it, but if you have the replica Countach, I feel like I wouldn't care. I could freely enjoy it. I don't have to worry about like, "Oh, I'm going to put miles on my car." I make money >> [clears throat] >> working. I don't make money with collecting cars and doing that. I want to buy a car because I want to drive that bloody thing. See, here's the but here's the difference. You've never heard of the dollar to fun ratio. I look at how much fun could I have for this dollar? And if I could get 90% of the fun for 50% of the price, then I do that because >> And then you I and then is like >> No, because I still get 90% of the fun. Can you imagine sitting on a chair there, right? Sitting and chilling, right? You don't have kids yet, so but sitting there you have kids or maybe whatever. Sitting there chilling and you have a month to live and like I wish I drove that Countach more. I would but You but you could say the same thing about anything. Let's say you got to dinner and you could have this incredible experience. It's awesome, but it's a thousand dollars a Or you could have 90% of the same experience for a hundred dollars. It's not going to be as crazy, but it's 1/10 the price. >> Yeah, but that's different. Like buying a Countach, working your ass off and being able to afford it. And then not But even if But But you could still do all of these things, be able to afford it, but be like, "Well, the dollar to fun ratio suggests that I could do this thing instead." You still get the same enjoyment of being able to buy the car, but That's more you thing, because the money is a really important subject in your life. I don't care. I don't I don't care. I've never had money, didn't care. Now I have money, still don't care. Money is not my motivation. I never Like Of course I am thinking about, "Okay, I can't do that. I can't do this. I can't" But like money is there to do good. Meaning, if I can buy that watch from a business that or a watchmaker and it will actually have an impact on our business, I can actually contribute. I'd rather that because that makes an impact and I can make a difference and I can make a change. I don't care about money. I don't. Never did and never will. It's never been a motivation. And I hear what you're saying. Yeah, decent 50% yeah. Well, I donate money to charities about dogs that fund in Northern Ireland the dog house sanctuary for years I've donated that. Like Do I care? No, yeah, if I didn't do that, I have more and I could have bought another car. Yeah, fantastic. Or just work work more efficient, make more money. Simple. Money needs to For me, and this is the great thing. We're opposites, yeah? That's the great thing about watches, we have different tastes. Like if you can if you can afford a Countach, uh it's a Countach, bad example because the thing is to drive. That's another thing. But if it's like something else like a 355, like Ferrari that like I recently bought a 355, by the way. Great car. Unbelievable. Sorry for my language, but now we're talking, right? So [clears throat] absolutely unbelievable car, right? And you could buy that for like a hundred fifty thousand dollars. Or you buy it like an improved variation of that, Evoluto, right? Recently acquired an Evoluto. It's coming in a couple of months, right? Or I don't know, is it a year? It's out to be built, right? It's like the perfect version of that car. And it's like eight hundred thousand dollars, right? Absolutely insane car. But whenever I bought my first Ferrari, it was the absolute bollocks. Then I bought another supercar and another supercar. And I'm super grateful that I can do that, right? Because I never had money in my pocket. I never realized I never thought it would be even a possibility, but the fact I can do that, super grateful. But then you are surrounding yourself and you're in circles and then you realize a I'm in Dubai and there's another 812 and there's another 812 and there's And mate, I'm one of They're building 14,000 cars, Ferrari. There's nothing unique about that. Same as having a Rolex. Mate, any bloke I will see in a in two miles today, like there will be people that that have a Rolex. Like I want to buy a car because it I just want to drive it. I want to enjoy it. And for example, the Evoluto, insane car, right? There's only 55 of them. Right? There's only 55 of them. Like that's unique. I won't see another one. Do I not drive it because there's only 55 of them? I mean maybe it loses value. I don't care. I buy that car because I want to drive it. Like not because I want to keep it in a in a in a in in a garage sitting doing nothing. So you say So you say you're good at at picking out fake watches. I like to think so, yeah. >> Okay. We compiled between everyone that works at the Ice Coffee Hour watches. All right. Let's go. And they're all fake. Yeah. They're all real. Yeah. You don't know. Well, let's see. First, you're going to be doing the look test. Yeah. So you're going to be able to see these watches and not feel them yet. Panerai uh Luminor Marina. Uh real. Rolex Day-Date, real. Rolex Submariner, real. Aquanaut 5167, real. Real. Now you can pick them up. >> to open them? Yeah. Feels Well, the problem with Panerai is their genuine movements are as rubbish as their fake ones. So you're quite close to that. It's a difficult one, this. And Panerai is not really my gig, but looking at the numbers, number 139 of 600, that is that makes sense. Case is Caseback is titanium. Watch isn't uh OPC It It all looks It all looks like it makes sense, so that's real. It all looks like it makes sense. Right? That Well, I don't even have >> feel it. You could do whatever you want with it. I don't have like this is fine. That's real. Yeah, it's real. Didn't know you had an Aquanaut, mate. No. Don't look at that. Absolute No, it's It It feels It feels It feels legit. It feels legit. Go to Geneva's done well. If this is Chinese, I'm actually impressed. I But I don't like is the clasp. That is actually gives me a wee bit of warning signs, the clasp. That makes That worries me a wee bit. But it's too It's too right. >> [snorts] [sighs] >> Yeah, that's right. That's good. Yeah, it's all That's legit. Three of them are real, three of them are fake. This one If there's a fake one, it's that one. If there's a fake one, it's this one. Because it's impossible really to see that. Really? What do you mean it's impossible to see that? There's no tells. This is This case is done perfect. Bracelet is done perfect. I don't have a date You could You could by the way take the watch out. You can screw it. You can do Yeah, we want to see if uh this one, too. Like it's really difficult to see that due to the fact I can't open a watch and I don't have much tells. But this must be fake. That one could be. It's hard to see. But I need to open it up. I need to know. I just feel that this one is legit. It just feels right. But this is the most copied watch on the planet. So, it's could be a trick one. That one is way too smooth. That's done perfectly. So, this is legit. So, if there's fake ones, it should be >> No, you didn't know about this one. Well, I have a date here and I'm pretty happy with that. Mhm. And I like the dial. I like the dial. Squeeze all right. And I'm pretty happy with that. That's not too So, if it was fake, it would have been those three. That's 100% legit. It's a risky one, this. That one is the most copied watch. I like that watch. Rehauler stuff. Let me see if the rehauler is right. Six. I like to do it this way. Three on three. Correct. And you're correct. All right. Thank you. >> [laughter] >> I'm actually really impressed. Yeah. I thought the Patek would be the dead giveaway because of how it sounds. And it's a little thick. I didn't like the class, right? >> No, the the clasp is awful. I didn't >> And you can see all the inner markings and you hear it. Uh listen to the movement. No, no, no. If I grab you a real Aquanaut, you know what I mean to say. >> It's exactly the same. No way, really? >> It's exactly the same. Could you grab Uh oh, here. Could you grab that box? You'll hear it's exactly the same. Like I love the date is so good on this. It's actually scary. Like that is a tell. Right? This is just This is really This is impossible to really see this in the out. This is done by a factory called Noob. N W O B >> VSF. VSF, yes. That's Noob factory. That's the same factory, if you know what I mean. So, like there's no way of telling that from the outside, really. Right? That one mate, like the Panerai movements were so >> [laughter] >> So, I would say those three real. That's why. Graham, how much did you pay for this? $465. Should he have bought a real one? Was this worth it? No, because now people know you're wearing a fake watch. >> Uh I don't care. Oh, that's so much better than mine. Oh, I Oh my gosh. This is so smooth. These are all real, by the way. They're all what? They're all real. >> real? Oh my gosh. This Daytona is in Can I pull it? Yeah. That was I bought that watch with every last penny I had. What did you pay for this? 180,000 uh euros. >> Aw. And what do you think this is worth today? 450. In total, what is the value of all of these watches? Million, maybe. Is this your personal collection? >> Yeah, I don't I don't I I I only travel with personal watches. Does this not make you nervous to travel? Like is this all insured and It's all insured, yeah. Yeah, but nobody knows I travel. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. Now, in terms of your collection, it's gorgeous. Do you have any watches that you regret selling? Yeah. What is that? My first luxury watch I had to sell, my Speedmaster. Uh still try to buy it back. Several watches, several vintage Daytonas I sold. I had to sell watches to fund the business because the business was losing money. Um some of which I will never be able to buy back. I would argue to say the majority of watches I sold I regret. But, I've been in a very fortunate situation that the last 2 years I didn't need to buy or sell a watch anymore. And it means I can focus on proper collecting again. There was one clip that I didn't show you that I'm going to show you now. And that's for extra content as well. Only fans >> No, no, no. Only fans here. The second controversial theory that you've got is that you strongly believe that any Rolex that you buy is manufactured after 2010 is actually not made in Switzerland. You believe this is an Asian product. >> Yeah, the major part of the component parts of the watch are all made in the Orient. >> Do we have a Pepsi here? A modern Pepsi? Boom, right here. It's a 2025 Pepsi. What do you think? Is that a $1,500 watch or is that a $22,000 watch? >> watch. >> [laughter] >> The reason it's a $1,500 watch is I can go to Hong Kong and buy this same thing, super clone. You can't tell the difference. That's why it's 1,500. It's 15,000 because Rolex wants 15,000. Let me tell you, after this next year and the truth comes out about production in China, try to sell this for anything. Try to sell this more than two grand. Yeah, this is the final clip to have a final clip. Right? What you see here is a little bollocks, right? Yes, there's parts coming out of China. Uh that doesn't really work for Rolex. For many other brands, it does. But, to give you an idea, in order for a watch to be called Swiss made, 50% of the value, not 50% of the components, but 50% of the value of the movement needs to be coming from Switzerland. So, that means that the yeah, they can have screws coming from China. And yes, there's nothing wrong with that because some of the Chinese manufacturing is significantly better than what they can produce in Switzerland. So, they're making the best product. And what he's saying is wrong. That's not a $1,500 watch. Maybe it is. It's a Rolex and it's a legit Rolex. You're not paying for the manufacturing. Like buying a Rolex is not the product. It's like I said, the cycle. Right? Being able to be considered, feel special. Oh, Oh, maybe I'm getting a watch. Then you get the call. Yes, oh, I can buy a watch. Oh, I own the watch. I can wear it. That cycle is the product, not the actual watch. >> I hate that game. That game is I hate it, too. I hate it, too. People want what they cannot have. That's what's called marketing. And that's a lie across And it's it's wrong in every way possible. But, like I mean, it's with Ferraris, with with every luxury aspect. That's the true form of luxury. It's the fact you cannot have something and you want it and then you get it. That's luxury. And what he's saying is absolutely wrong. So, one thing I'm curious about, in the Mark Tilbury podcast, he said he Googled your net worth and said it came up as 4 million and you're like, "Oh, no, that's really wrong. South South of that." And then we're all very surprised. I'm curious if you surpassed 4 million dollars now. I'm probably the richest guy on the planet. I'm telling you. I have a beautiful family and I have a job I don't call a job. I think that that is the most important thing and that it gives That makes me a very wealthy man. And uh I'm very grateful that I don't know what the price of a carton of milk is. And that is a really good place to be. I don't know what my net worth is. I know I own several companies. We employ a lot of people throughout all our companies. And we add a lot of value. And my net worth, I don't know. I can't I I have I have no idea. I don't care. And I want to keep it that way because the motivation is never money. The motivation is impact. What's your advice for success? You can only excel in the things you truly love. So, when you have your passion, you can be the best at it. But, it is adding value first before you are able or allowed to make a penny. Make sure you add value first. And then maybe, if you work hard enough, you can take value out of it. My My My aim is or my advice is don't ever listen to anyone because people have said throughout the years and still they do that every day. You're You will fail. You will not do this. You will not do that. I listen to me and I'm my own best uh motivation. And my kids are the reason, so that I do everything now. That was different back in the day when I wasn't a father. But, the key is add value first before you're allowed to take any value. People say, "I'm going to start my own business. I'm going to start I'm going to become an influencer and and gain a following." And I'm like, "Why would you gain a following? Do you add value to people that follow you? Do you give information that would actually impact their lives? Like why would people follow you? Why do you think if you put a video out that that people would actually watch? Like time is our most valuable asset. Why would someone take time out of their day to watch your video? And I am so incredibly grateful that people watch my videos because time is our most valuable asset and they spend that watching a video of me talking about my favorite subject. I'm a lucky man. That makes me a very wealthy man. I've also noticed that you've been getting in shape. Thank you. >> really good. I appreciate that. >> What was What was some of the motivation behind that? Was it Was it having a family that kind of sparked things into motion or If I there was a big chance that I wouldn't have made it the other side if I didn't change things. Um my life, myself, my health. We figured out things and I needed to change my lifestyle if I wanted to see my my kids grow up. Which is the only motivation. And yeah, that was a big was a tough pill to swallow and it's a tough journey. But it's a journey I thoroughly enjoy. And it's good to feel feel fresh feel Yeah. Yeah, I I I I had to do it. Otherwise I But it would have maybe ended up differently. It's interesting our prior editor Alex uh just had a child. And he's down I believe he's probably now 150 lb Oh. >> since finding out that his wife was pregnant. Like I respect that so much. I know how tough this is. I I've been there on that. I lost 60 well about 70 lb. And it's not been easy and I maintain it and I it's it's it's will always be part of my life. >> Mhm. I um Yeah. But like my kids are all my reasons. And I want to see my kids grown up. And that's the only only thing. I want to be an example to my son and I want to protect my daughter. So I had to get my act together and I needed a wee bit of luck and we got out of that. So I'm in a really good place. People have no idea but there was a period that I didn't film for months. We prepared for some stuff and that I needed to go through and >> Mhm. We've we basically filmed for a serious amount of time and then I was off and I was just focused on health and and and the stuff I'm dealing with. So it's really cool. >> You're looking great, man. I appreciate that. Means a lot. Means a lot. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I agree. Thank you. Here we have a tier list of different watch brands. I want you to list them all out Let's go. giving your honest opinion. Let's go. Are you scared? >> Honest opinion. A. Lange & Söhne S is the best, yeah? A. Lange & Söhne I am not rating it. I think it is amazing. Well, no. A. Lange & Söhne I rate it amazing watch making part of the Richemont Group. It's it's it's really unauthentically put in the market and in effect last year with only 100 of a rose gold edition. Yes, I think the watch brand is a watch brand is a people that work there I would rate them up because of their mentality and the way they want to boost up fake C. Audemars Piguet uh C. Like and I'm just being very clear. AP is gone. AP is cooked. It It is collapsing left right and center. And that is after leaving leaving a François Bennahmias which is the I would say the best leader in the last 10 years. It really represented his network. The Travis Scott was one of the best watches AP has done. It went viral, became mainstream. The impact of AP is gigantic. But the last I don't remember anything that AP has done in the last couple of years, mate. I don't. I don't. So yeah, C. I am going to sell my gold AP. I don't want to like I just don't. Breitling How am I rating How am I rating them? >> Your own criteria. My own criteria. >> Yeah. Breitling is getting there. It's working on their C tier C tier. It's getting there. It's going there. Cartier makes an impact. Unbelievable cult following do things right. It is what it is. A tier. Casio A tier. Says what it does on the tin. Done. FP Journe I was wrong with FP Journe and I'm the first one to admit it. I was wrong. >> How were you wrong? I thought it would drop because François is quite a François Paul Journe is quite of a rocket. Pissed off a lot of collectors throughout the years by his his behavior etc. And I thought that it would negatively impact the watch brand. I was wrong. I'm the first one to admit it. And I think it's hands down one of the most insane watch brands out there. A tier. Grand Seiko Great watches. Great watches. It's just the people that buy them. It's just absolutely embarrassing. But watch brand great watches B tier. I'm rating Grand Seiko above AP just clarifying, yeah? It's just And I want you to I really want this is really important. There's not a Rolex owner that is ever worried about Grand Seiko. But every Grand Seiko owner is saying that Rolex is that their watch is better than Rolex. It is just nonsense. H. Moser Cool watches Streamliners cool. I would say I can't I'd rather Do I rather have a Moser than an AP? No, same. C tier. F tier. Hublot IWC F tier. Jaeger-LeCoultre F tier. Jaeger-LeCoultre B tier. Omega Lovely lovely cool C. Panerai F. Patek Philippe A tier. Richard Mille A tier. Rolex S tier. Industry wouldn't be here today without Rolex. >> Mhm. Like Rolex has defined something that no other brand has been able to succeed. Is making the process the luxury aspect rather than the product. It's the biggest marketing tool in the world. It is the biggest brand of them all. They're the king. There's a reason. They're the king. Seiko really good B. Uh Swatch really good. I love Swatch. It's so adds so much value to the industry. A tier. Tissot value for money hands down. Tissot PRX one of the best watches out there uh for the money B tier. Like it. Tudor A tier. Love Tudor. Love the new releases. Vacheron Constantin C tier. Zenith D tier. I like that. Good list. Cool. Did it make sense my criteria? It did. Did it make sense? >> It did. Yeah. We have We have one more for you. This right here is a specific watch tier list. Rate these watches exactly as you would. What are the best? What are the worst? All right. I'm going to start with Jacob & Co. as F tier. Absolute rubbish. Apple Watch I think it made a big impact on the industry. I don't like it. It's not my gig. And I also think we're all over connected by the way. I think people shouldn't wear an Apple Watch for a daily stuff. If it's for sports it's fine. I I I rate that. If it's for health it's fine and I want my mom and dad I want my mom to have an Apple Watch if she falls. Really functional. It's a watch. It's not really a watch. Uh D D but it's it it has created so many wrists which is really important. AP Royal Oak one of the most important watch in the industry, mate. Hands down. S tier. It is It changed the industry. It saved the industry. Hublot Big Bang F tier. Richard Mille RM 11-03 >> [sighs and gasps] >> B tier nowadays. If you asked me that last year I would say A tier like but B tier today. Casio F-91W Best watch value for money. It's It's from Osama to Obama. It was functional in every way shape or form. Osama used it to to detonate bombs and Obama used it as his main watch. From Osama to Obama the F-91W is the best watch in the world. The Casio really cool. Love that watch. A tier. Done. Patek Philippe Nautilus Yes, lovely. I own several of them. Cool. Really cool. Still rate it below a Sorry, I can't This is This is really Like I'm not There's not many people that will rate a Royal Oak above a Nautilus but the Royal Oak was before the Nautilus. And it was the reason why the Swiss watch brand anyway. A. Lange & Söhne Datograph Great watch. One of the best chronographs out there. If it's the platinum model depends on the materials, of course. I owned that Datograph. My problem with A. Lange & Söhne is the service. It's one of the worst service service in every in the entire industry. They don't care. They will not look after you. So and I've experienced that several times firsthand. So for me C tier. Cartier Santos one of the most important watches in the world. I rate that a B. That's not bad. It's middle right. You see what I mean? That's not bad. Speedmaster B class good. Submariner B perfect same same right. Snowflake nice watch. But it's a Grand Seiko. And it's not better than a Rolex so I'd put that below a Rolex. PRX hands down one of the best value for money watches out there. Done. Made a big impact. A tier. Tudor Black Bay love it on Jubilee bracelet. A tier. No. Yeah, it's Rolex I would rate a Rolex Submariner above a Tudor but it just it's just so positioned so well. So don't get me wrong. It's positioned so well. Like there's several ways to rate this. I rate this my criteria. You know, it. I don't care. It's my watch. My my rating. So after doing that I want you to review my watch collection. I brought every single watch that I have and it's available for members. So if you sign up as a member on the channel you'll get the full video on this. Get subscribing now. Show some love and support, will you? Well, we are going to have you review Graham's entire collection for members only but also we'll also end the podcast right here. Thank you guys so much for joining the Ice Coffee Hour. Thank you guys for watching. If you made it to the end You're a real one. Seriously. real one. We would not be here if it's not for you guys. >> a member he's going to give you one of his watches. >> One of his fake watches. One [laughter] one many fake watches. Yeah. Thank you for coming on the podcast. >> You do it. Done. Stop being a cheap bastard. Do you want me to give you money? Here. No, no, no, no. No, please actually don't. Don't give me money. I would hate for you to do that. No, stop, stop, stop. Don't [laughter] give me money. It's like scrambled eggs. Thank you guys so much for watching. Until next time. >> See you.