Video summary
In this discussion, Bernie Sanders addresses the role of identity politics within the Democratic Party, arguing that while fighting for women's bodily autonomy and ending bigotry are enormously important, these social issues should not come at the expense of economic justice. He contends that it is possible to fight for both simultaneously; however, he asserts that Democrats have been strong on social identity issues but weak in standing up for the working class against billionaires. Sanders suggests that unless the party offers a sane approach to complex topics like immigration, crime, and trans activism, they will struggle to resonate with voters. He highlights a specific campaign ad featuring Kamala Harris focusing on transgender rights as an example of messaging that failed because it focused on issues affecting only 1% to 3% of the population rather than broader economic struggles. Sanders elaborates on what he views as a strategic "own goal" for Democrats, noting that their focus shifted away from tangible crises facing the majority while simultaneously demonizing minority groups. He points out that during his time in office and beyond, real problems such as massive income inequality, where 60% of people struggle to put food on the table, a climate crisis, poor educational outcomes with U.S. kids ranking 37th globally in math and science, and a failing healthcare system were ignored by mainstream Democratic politics. He contrasts this approach with Donald Trump's strategy, which he describes as demagogic: taking frustrations about housing costs or wages and redirecting them toward powerless minorities like undocumented immigrants or transgender individuals rather than addressing the root causes of economic distress. The conversation turns to immigration enforcement under President Trump, specifically criticizing the actions of ICE for what Sanders terms a move toward authoritarianism. He expresses strong disagreement with current tactics where agents in plain clothes pick up citizens off the street and deport them without due process, comparing these methods unfavorably to historical injustices against Native Americans and Black people. While he does not advocate abolishing ICE immediately, he insists that its operations must be sensible and comprehensive rather than draconian. He also touches on instances of vigilante behavior by individuals posing as government agents in places like New York subways, warning that such actions are frightening and undermine the rule of law established since Ronald Reagan's era. Ultimately, Sanders concludes that the Democratic Party has abandoned its working-class base by prioritizing identity politics over economic needs, leading to a situation where the working class naturally abandoned them after the election. He acknowledges some positive signs with figures like Andrew Yang in New York catching on to these realities but maintains that addressing real problems is essential for any political movement. The dialogue underscores his belief that true democracy involves solving shared crises through cooperation rather than dividing people along identity lines or scapegoating minorities, a failure he argues has cost the party significant ground and trust among voters who are struggling with daily economic hardships.
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you mentioned before uh gay rights,
women's bodies, uh ability for people to
get married, immigration.
In retrospect, how much of an own goal
for Democrats do you think the focus on
identity politics has been?
>> How I'm sorry, how much
>> an own goal or an unforced error has the
focus on identity politics?
>> Again, you use the word unforced. I
wouldn't I I think it has been.
>> Let's go with on goal.
>> Okay. This is what I think. I think
fighting to make sure that women can
control their own bodies and are not
secondass citizens, enormously
important. The need to end all forms of
bigotry in this country, enormously uh
important.
But you can, you know, chew bubble gum
and walk at the same time. You could
fight for women's rights and fight for
an economy that works for the working
class of this country, not just the
billionaires. It's not either or. The
Democrats have been strong on those
social issues, identity politics,
>> but they have not been strong in
standing up for the working class of
this country.
>> I think that the focus on identity
politics, unless the Democratic Party
has a sane answer to questions around
immigration, crime, trans activism, DEI,
I think it's going to be difficult to
get the electorate to resonate. I mean,
look at the what was the most powerful
ad that was run during the the campaign.
Camala is for they them. Trump is for
you. Why did that resonate so much?
>> Oh, well, you're raising another
question. I don't know. Maybe you know
the answer. How many people are trans in
America? Do you know what percent?
>> It'll be it'll be less than a gay and
that's between 1 and 3%.
>> Yeah. Yeah. A tiny tiny number of
people.
>> So, why is so much attention
>> I'll tell you why. Glad you asked that
question. Now, what do demagogues always
do?
>> Demons. That's right. All right. So,
here you have a country.
We have massive income and wealth
inequality. We got 60% of people
struggling to put food on the table.
You got a climate crisis.
You have the United States in recent
international exam. Our kids were 37th
in the world in terms of math and
science falling far behind China in
terms of their educational attainments.
uh have a health care system falling
apart, etc. Same people. Now, you may
disagree with me on an issue, but we put
them on the table, right? Okay. Do we
have a healthcare crisis? Yeah. Yes.
What's your idea? Here's my idea. Argue
it out. Let's do it. Correct or not?
Correct. Got a housing crisis. All
right. That's what democratic with a
small D.
>> That was not what was focused on.
>> I know. I know.
That is what real with a small D
democratic politics is supposed to be
about. How do we work together to solve
those problems that we you and I and
others recognize as real problems,
right?
>> Mhm.
>> Okay. What does Trump do?
>> Trump essentially
>> but come on just on that. It doesn't
need to be about what is it that Trump
was focused on? This to me feels like an
own goal. The focus was so much this
wasn't being made up out of nowhere by
the Republican party. This seemed to be
things that were being said by the Dems.
And the focus that was
>> all right said by well first thought I
am not going to argue with you as to
whether or not the Democrats have by and
large turn their backs on the economic
needs of working people
>> to focus on other issues.
>> Yes. All right. I that's
I've been making that point for quite a
while.
And the other critique of the Democrats
is they have refused to recognize the
severity of the crisis that we face. As
you and I speak, there's real pain in
this country, right? People are really
struggling.
>> It's kind of a double whammy, right?
That you are focusing on something which
only affects a minority of people, which
is pretty horrendous in terms of
messaging, which doesn't seem to
resonate in the same way. And also,
there are all of these problems that
would be really good for you if you
address them.
>> Yeah. and probably would resonate with
more people which is why I mean both me
and you agree on this which is it does
feel an awful lot like the Democrats are
out of touch with the working class and
is it surprising that they lost ground
with them? The answer is I think after
the election and I worked very hard for
K Larrison after the election I said
something to the effect that the uh we
should not be surprised that having that
after the Democrats abandoned the
working class of this country the
working class abandoned the Democrats.
>> Yeah.
>> All right. And and I believe that to be
true. I would say that there's good news
out there and you're seeing again with
Mr. Mandani here in New York and
elsewhere. some people are catching on
that we got to deal with uh with that
reality and but I want to get back to
Trump because you talked about you know
this these ads that success what
demagogues always what do they do it's
it's them and us you take a powerless
minority right in the 30s in Germany it
was the Jews it was gypsies in this
country historically it has been blacks
and gays you take a people and you say
you can't afford housing you're not
making it up money you know whose fault
it is hey Chris you know whose fault it
It's the undocumented.
>> I'm not convinced. Well, maybe the
undocumented thing actually. Yes. Uh if
you were going to say the trans side of
stuff, uh which was the ad that we're
talking about in particular. I think the
finger was being pointed at Camala
rather than being pointed at the group.
It wasn't these people. This group of
people are who's wrong
>> that she was focusing and they took that
out of, you know, do you think how many
times during her campaign did she talk
about that issue? You know, you take
something
>> a thousand hours of someone talking
they're going to slip up every so often.
>> Yeah. or you you say one thing and you
take it out of but the point about
demagogues is they do not address the
real problems facing the overwhelming
majority of the people they demonize I
mean you listen to some of Trump's
speeches and I was you heard them I was
there at the state of the union you know
a few feet away from them the horrible
and ugly things he says un you know
they're rapists they're murderers
they're drug dealers truth is the crime
rate in the undocumented community in
America is lower than is for Native
Americans, you know, they're hardworking
people, all right? Should they, you
know, etc., etc. But what he does
successfully is takes people's
frustrations and points them to a
powerless minority. And that's kind of a
horrific thing to do.
>> Do you agree with the activists calling
to abolish ICE?
>> No, not right now. But you want But do I
believe on the other hand that you
should have ICE now running a muck,
knocking down doors, dragging people? I
mean, this is America.
People with masks around themselves
often in plain clothes, picking people
picking people up off the street,
throwing them in vans, and in some cases
deporting them to Sedan. Really? Is that
really America? So, you know, we we need
to have sensible what we need and what
we have needed for decades
since Ronald Reagan, in fact, is a sane
uh immigration comprehensive immigration
policy. So, I think what ICE is doing
right now under Trump's directive is
horrific. Uh, and it is part of this
movement toward authoritarianism. It's
not dissimilar from sending the military
into Portland, Oregon, or Chicago,
wherever he's sending them
>> to control a rebellion. Really, I'm not
aware that the people of Portland are
trying to overthrow the United States
government.
I saw a video from what looked like
maybe the subway in New York of some guy
that didn't look to have official
credentials
holding up a subway, flashing a light
toward what must have been the driver
and trying to accost some person that
maybe didn't look like they were fully
American in terms of heritage, but
I don't think was in a ICE official
uniform. What is this? Because in the UK
there's this meme of citizen arrest.
Have you ever heard of that? Right.
What's happening? What is that?
>> Look, if you have people and sometimes
they have masks, sometimes they don't.
No one disputes the fact that they are
picking up people who are American
citizens, right? But in this country,
you have a history of due process. If I
want to if I think you are guilty of
something, you get arrested, you have
due process, your right to an attorney,
a right to defend yourself. Is this a
grassroots?
>> All right. And then what have to answer
your question, if you have government
agents do it, somebody else comes along
and says, "Hey, they're doing it. You're
under arrest."
>> Really? And you're seeing some of that
as well. And that is vigilanttheism and
frightening.
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