Want the C-Suite? Stop Thinking Like “Just” a Fundraiser

Hey, welcome back everybody. It's another episode of the nonprofit show. Not just any episode. Um to while Tony and I were caveting in the green room, our um executive producer Kevin Pace reminded us that this is the 1,600th episode of the nonprofit show. >> Wow. Congratulations. >> Congratulations is in order. Um, yeah, that's just a lot. >> It's a lot of shows. I I should have I should have brought my party hat. >> Well, it's hard to believe. It's hard to say because it just seems like yesterday we started this. Um, every day is a new and different day, believe it or not, even though we're on air five days a week. Um, and so, thank you to everyone who has joined us. Um Tony Bell was one of the very first people that we started working with seven years ago and um it has really been a a treasured part of our of my life and uh wow super cool to to talk with the people and meet the different people um that we've met with. So um Tony thank you to you definitely. >> No thank you. Congratulations. >> Well thanks. It's been a lot of fun. You know, today we're going to talk about escalating your professional value. And sometimes this can help us make more money. It can help us just feel better about ourselves. It can help us get more respect in within our community, maybe even within our own organization. And so, we want to talk about this. We address a lot of these things in the architecture of fundraising, but I think what Tony and I decided was, let's pull these out separately and just talk about working on you. How do you raise your professional value? Um, so that you're not just that fundraising person, but you're perceived more as a seauite leader. Um, we want to make sure that we thank our amazing partners, Bloomerang American Nonprofit Academy, Staffing Boutique, JMT Consulting, Third Sector Company, Your Parttime Controller, and Inuit Intuitit QuickBooks. I'm Julia C. Patrick, of course, the amazing Tony Bell um of Mr. nonprofit consultancy joining us today as he does every Friday. So Tony, beyond the fundraising role, I want to ask the question about leadership and I mentioned this to you in the green room, but I was at an AFP um chapter meeting in my community. Uh I am not a member of AFP, but I go every year to the Giving USA report that's released in Phoenix. And um I was sitting around this table, people I didn't really know, and they started talking about how they believed that the um chief development officers in our community were the fasttracked chosen few to become CEOs of nonprofits. And I know you're the president of an AFP chapter in Southern Florida. What do you think about this about that leadership connection? Yeah, I think it's natural to assume that the the director of development or chief development officer would be the natural kind of successor to a CEO or executive director role. I think a lot of that comes from the relationships that the development professional h has not only uh within the organization with the board of directors but with the community at large. So when you know when a fundraising professional steps into executive director or seauite role now they're they're performing in in that seat already having the earned credibility of the majority of their supporters and and community champions. So I think it's pretty natural to to think of that that it's like oh well it'll be the develop why should I apply it'll be the development director. Uh interesting. >> But uh but there you know there are a lot of I think good reasons why people uh would think that and and make that assumption. >> So in your career as you think about the trajectory of it, has that been always apparent or is this more of a new thing? Like I guess I'm trying to get the feel for how has this um role and this leadership position been elevated to an extent where people are automatically pushing them into CEO levels. >> I think part of it is and and you and I talk a lot about how some of the subjects and themes of our conversations are not necessarily new to the sector. It's just a new way of looking at them and and kind of reframing them. Uh so I think as we continue to uh send the message of of the importance of relationships that uh historically when a nonprofit may have moved someone that was uh a CFO or or involved in financials uh in the organization to that executive director or CEO level. uh they're finding that having someone that has more of those relationship skills and not to say that CFOs and accounting accountants aren't great people. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You know what I'm saying? But so so we're historically folks may have been put in those roles because of their uh keen fiduciary uh responsibility. uh there is now this realization that the relationships may be the larger necessity when you're kind of weighing out uh the importance of those different skill sets. >> It it's when you said that it's just astonishing to me how often a a conversation that you and I have whether it be on camera or off so much of it comes back to relationship management doesn't it? always everything in life. >> It's so Yeah, everything in life. Everything in life. Yeah, that's magical thinking. Yeah, that's super cool. Okay, so that's a good way to level set this. Um, and part and parcel to that, how do we understand or how do we push ourselves to understand the business model outside of fundraising? Because sometimes, you know, we're so invested in what we've got to do with our team, we're not really able to learn or even engage in some of those other operational aspects. How do we navigate this? >> Yeah, I'm I'm sorry, Joel. Yeah, I mean, running a nonprofit is not a mystery. It's not, oh, how do I do this? You know, and we often say, I'm I'm not the architect of this statement. You know, I've heard this statement throughout my entire career. you know, that 501c3 is a tax status, not a business model. Uh, so, you know, and some people get turned off when they hear nonprofit professionals say, "Well, I run my nonprofit like a business." Well, it is a business. Uh, if you look at your your articles of incorporation, there is Inc at the end of the name of, you know, the formal uh the formal name of of your organization. So, uh, so attending trainings that take place at your your chamber of commerce, I think chamber of commerce is such a tremendous value to communities and nonprofits engaging in uh the workshops and and membership at a local chamber of commerce is important for this aspect. So, you're attending marketing meetings and you're attend you're attending all of these trainings that are really designed for a forprofit. But when we take that out of it, you are really attending training on how to run a business, whether that's fiduciary, whether it's marketing, uh whether it's it's human resources. >> Uh so really leaning into those uh opportunities like like I said through a chamber of commerce and and understanding the other aspects of a of running a successful business. Yeah, I love that you framed that up because you're absolutely right that the IRS is the one that designates who can who can call themselves a nonprofit or not. And this is is not a business model. It is just a structure. We still have to make money. We still have to generate revenue in order to do our work. And so, you're absolutely right. I think that's a super cool way to kind of frame that up and make it more um essential to learning, right? You know, you have to be able if you're going to move up that professional ladder, you've got to be able to recognize what the other areas of leadership um you're going to be called upon to lead. And so >> yeah and I I think that most folks if if they are like one step away from you know serving in a seuite or executive director role they they I will assume already have a pretty good grasp on on this understanding that there are many aspects of running a successful uh company or organization and they're going to need to to level up on all of those. >> Right? So then that leads me to my next question for you and part of our discussion because it's a really interesting thing to be um aware or you know have knowledge or have have you know worked a little bit dabbled in some of these other areas um of a nonprofit and of the structure that that we're serving in. But the the at the end of the day, we have to be able to lead, right? Whether we know all there is to know. Um, and if we can just observe and offer solutions, that's really huge. But my question, I guess, goes to the heart of the the matter of if you've if you've been a um a chief development officer, how well are you going to be able to lead an operations team or lead, you know, your your finance department or programming? Um, is leadership just good leadership or do you need to know about these specific things? >> Yeah. I'm just grinning because I I love the word dabble and I love to dabble in things. So that was a great way to cue this up for for me. Uh so the ability to observe organizational issues. Uh I think it's our responsibility especially once you are at a director level or above uh to really look at the organization holistically and to really take a big picture approach to everything that that's happening. Uh, so I'll just kind of start with that. Now, your organizational culture may be one that says stay in your lane. >> Yeah. Right. >> You know, you are a fundraiser. You're not responsible for the deliverables of the grant. You're just responsible for getting us the grant. Um, but in your work in fundraising and as a fundraising professional within your organization, you typically need to understand the processes and the outcomes so that when you're having conversations with investors and donors, you can really speak to, you know, how the gears turn within the organization. So when I'm saying to a potential donor investor, we feed x number of people in our community, then I can say and this is how we do that. We do it through a mechanism of blah blah blah blah that then you know is touched by these folks within the organization and then ultimately we're we're serving individuals and families. So I I think in order to tell the >> the whole story of of your programs and services, you do need to understand some of the operational aspects of delivering on that mission. >> Yeah. I mean, what you just said is really interesting to me because what I heard you say almost makes it seem like you're going to be better at your job as a development director when you know these things, right? going the other direction when you can speak to what's going on and why that needs to be critically supported, financially supported, um it goes hand in hand, right? We don't always talk about that. >> Yeah. Well, I I also think it's it's interesting and there's a lot of value in bringing people together that don't live and breathe within a certain space. Uh and so I think that as leaders we we have the opportunity to do that in our organization. Maybe maybe this leader isn't involved in operations. It doesn't mean that they don't bring some kind of lived experience that's going to add value to the conversation or add some value to solving uh a a a problem or or finding an opportunity for the organization. So, you know, I would encourage leaders to remember that your team members, regardless of their job title, uh come to you with a lot of lived experience and uh and to tap into that. >> Yeah, I love that. I think that's brilliant. I think that's, you know, that's just like great advice. No matter where you are in the trajectory of your career, if you're if you just want to stay in development, that's one thing, but it works. But if you want to move up or move along within your organization, that's great. and grand advice. Yeah. >> Let's talk about um along the same lines, Tony, and you have been so instrumental in sharing this concept with us um throughout our 1,600 episodes of the nonprofit show. Just had to put that in there. Um talking about refining your communication skills. And this is one thing that I think is very interesting to look at it in two at two levels internally and externally. Could you kind of talk to us about that? >> Yeah. So I I think in this particular topic, Julie, what I think about internally with with your nonprofit, it really is uh setting that standard for communication, not only in the words that you use, but in the tone in which you deliver them. Uh so again, folks start to mirror the tone. They start to mirror uh the the content and and the specific words that that you're using. So So refining communication skills internally to me means being very intentional and being mindful about the words that you select, uh uh the time that you might share information, uh being mindful of how it might be received by an individual. Uh and and again just reinforcing that that tone often uh says more than the words themselves. Yeah, I think you're right. And I think that um you know I think we're learning more and more as we discuss you to use your word tone and leadership um that how we communicate is so much more important to your point than what it is we're talking about because right now there's such a civil distress and in how we communicate and how we share. I think leaning into that tone might get us further right now at this point in time. >> At this point in time, I mean, certainly that we we can't we have to be specific, but I think we need to kind of step back maybe and and say what is it we're going to do? Bill Gates had a fascinating um uh article in the Gates Notes. If you if you're not a subscriber to it, um it's very interesting. He talks a lot about um the global issues and it's it's Gates notes. It's free. You can sign up. Um but he talked about in this week's missive about hope and how he has had to redefine what he's hopeful about. And when he really sat with himself and looked at what is going on because he's in the center of this communication storm, right? all these this information >> he he refined and he found more hope than he thought existed >> in the nonprofit sector. >> That's good to hear. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's an interesting it's an interesting way to look at it, right? >> Oh, for sure. >> You know, >> Well, for sure. Because I Yeah. I don't know how many people and and I certainly don't uh take the time to sit down and and think about at this moment in time what am I hopeful about? >> Yeah. >> And and what does that list look like and and how can I improve and grow that list of things that that I'm I'm hopeful about. Uh yeah when we when we talk about external communication Julia I think the same things are true that I shared with internal uh just being mindful that you know externally you may not share some of the things that you would share uh in internally you know you may you know there just may be some things that you want to keep to yourself but on both of those one thing I wanted to mention too was is around body language and communication and so especially externally I mean you know, if I'm sitting with my arms crossed and my head tilted the whole time I'm talking to you, you know, what kind of message is is that sending or if I just, you know, can't just stop um you know, moving my hands around uh and how distracting that might be. So, uh when we just think about communication, you know, just think about the the nonverbal part of of that as well, both internally and externally. >> I love it. Those wise words indeed. Um, as we start to finish up, I want to really kind of touch on some different points that we can be doing all along our journeys um, in our profession that will help build our professional position. And I honestly, Tony, I think a lot of these things, and maybe I'm just speaking for myself, but I think a lot of them will help build confidence, right? And when we're more confident, I think that we are more appealing to those people around us that might be looking to elevate our position or hire us maybe even for a different organization. Um, and so I would love to kind of have your reflection on some of these things. >> Yeah. Well, I think one of the best opportunities really is around public speaking. >> Okay. uh and and just getting yourself out there and and finding opportunities uh to to again share your experience, share what you've learned. Uh challenge the way that folks think on the on the dayto-day uh deliver messaging. Like I've said many times, Julia, part of the joy that I get out of fundraisers Friday is the hope that we are empowering folks to think differently about their work. We're empowering them to advocate for themselves. You know, we're just we're just empowering them again to, you know, reframe the way in which they they communicate. Uh public speaking is is a dynamic part of fundraising. So, so lean into the dynamic part and the part that actually you're probably already very good at because you're in front of you're in front of folks and you're delivering stories all the time. So, lean into the public speaking. I I would say of course social media is a place uh you know everyone has something to say on LinkedIn. Uh so, you know, please join the noise. Uh there's there's a lot of conversations happening on on LinkedIn. I would say that based on on my experience um just working with others and even when I reflect on my own behaviors uh as you try to step into a space where you're really putting yourself out there is you have to maintain some humility in in this work you have to be humble around the opportunities. And so when when I join you on this show every week, Julia, I have the opportunity to to share what what I think and to share my my lived experience. I don't sit here thinking that that's better than anybody else's shared, you know, uh shared experiences or or lived experiences. I don't sit here and think that what I feel is is any, you know, any greater than anyone else feels. Uh but it's an opportunity to share that and and I'm most grateful for it. Uh so I I would just say as you as you step into the space where you're like I'm going to be a thought leader uh step into the space and share what you know and what you know confidently and step into the space knowing that your intention is to uplift others and those titles as thought leader community leader dash leader will come to you based on based just based on that Just >> it's funny because I I feel like I'm your personal hype man. >> You are. >> But but you know what? I totally believe it. And and I I never I never realized that until you were actually on another episode last week as one of our co-hosts for a really important nonprofit that I've personally used called It Gets Better. And um we were talking to this amazing leader who has literally saving lives day in and day out of uh LGBTQ plus youth >> and predominantly in the suicide space. Right. Yeah. And um I [laughter] just like went off [gasps] on Tony Bell and I could tell afterwards because I was just and I could tell I made you really uncomfortable and it was I felt badly but then I was like hell no he is an expert and it was an interesting I don't know refinement or whatever between really speaking my truth about what I know, how you work, your intelligence, your thought leadership while you were sitting while you were there on camera. It was a very it was a weird thing, but it had to be said. Does that make sense? >> Yeah. No, it was very kind. You It's just one of those things where where it's like, you know, I'm sitting right here, don't you? You know, [laughter] even though it's all good, it's still like, you know, I'm sitting right here. I'm right here. But Yeah, >> but going back to this conversation, I've always felt like it really does you you you have to maintain a a level of humility in this work and you have to maintain a high level of gratitude uh in in this work. And if you're going to if you're going to become a leader uh because you're trying to fill some void within yourself or because you need an ego boost uh you're doing it for the wrong reasons, >> right? And and I think uh it's when it's inauthentic, it never is truly powerful, right? I mean, I think it it it lands softly. I want to add on some things that are a bugaboo for me. Um, and that is having an an active LinkedIn page, having a professional headsh shot, um, that can be that can have personality. I'm not saying you go to a studio and it's like super posed. I mean, it it I think it's better when it has some sort of, uh, you know, unexpected expression or you've been caught in a in a fun environment, but it's a professional image, right? It's not something that was just, you know, uh, taken without any thought. Um, I think having a LinkedIn profile is essential. That is right now a modern business communication. And you must, even if you're not super active, be somewhat engaged. Even if you just challenge yourself to one act action a week, one post a week, I don't care, you know. And then the other thing is um I was reminded again at AFP uh last night in my community um when you don't have business cards, you lose an opportunity to connect with people. And I know it's like maybe an old lady thing to say, but um those people that are the the leaders, they're carrying their business cards. Let's just put it at that. >> And they're passing them out >> and they get used. And I don't know Tony if you're if you are moving more to the digital side or how you feel about this but >> I think it depends on on the individual. I actually like both quite honestly. So I've been to some events where folks have both. They're like would you like my card or digital? I'm like I'll take both cuz one now I have this as the visual on my desk and now I don't have to load it in my phone because I've I've used the QR code and now you're in my contact. So, you've you've saved me a little work by having the digital card. Uh, but I do just and this is how I work. I do like having that visual that is, you know, sitting on my desk or up on a board to remind me, you know, that that that individual is there and and whatever followup or or, you know, keeping in touch I might want to do. >> Yeah, I think it's important. I really do. And like I said, um it's somewhat of a maybe a old school, but sometimes old school is just fine. Sometimes >> it's just it's just fine. >> Sometimes it's proven and it works. Okay, last but not least, it's the soulsearching question. Um it it kind of speaks about why. What is your why? How am I a significant value to my nonprofit sector? >> [snorts] >> This is an interesting question because we don't often sit with these types of questions, do we? >> No. And and you know, I might even reframe it a little bit just based on on my experience. So when I think of how am I a significant value to my nonprofit sector, that's a lot. um you know I mean it's it's so I'm thinking more about how am I in how am I ensuring that I'm the best I can be to have the greatest impact >> on the nonprofit sector. Uh I think that that removes a lot of outside noise when you focus on how can I be the best that I can be to meet the needs of the nonprofit sector. Uh, >> yeah, >> I love that. >> And and that's just because I've been caught up and and sort of even recently with with this value proposition to my community. Uh, and especially as one of my friends says, you know, I'm in the back nine of my career. Uh, how does it feel when you no longer feel as valued as you once did? uh and that is because you are allowing others to place the value. uh so I had to shift that and say what am I doing to make sure I feel valued in what I'm contributing uh based on on what I want to do and really the level of exposure that I want to have not the level of exposure that other people are are determining for me. >> Right. I love it. Well, wise words indeed to end this episode of the nonprofit show, our 1,600th episode. Um, as you have been listening to Tony, um, and myself, um, definitely if you like this direction that we take, um, humor, humor less, and and quiet or not quiet, a lot of these tones are included in our book, The Architecture of Fundraising. It is available on Amazon for $19.99. It's a great read and I think it's something that might help you along the the knowledge of your career. If you've got a question, reach out to us. You can connect with us at info@ameanonprofitacademy.com and we would love to hear what you have to say, how we can support you and what your journey um and nonprofit fundraising is is looking like these days. It's definitely ever changing. Um, we are here with this everchanging sector because we have amazing partners and they include Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Staffing Boutique, JMT Consulting, Third Sector Company, your part-time controller, and Intuitit QuickBooks. These are the folks that make this show possible. And again, most of them have been with us since the beginning. Um, now seven years in. So, it's pretty remarkable. Um Tony, as we end each and every episode, we leave with this message. I'm talking to you, my friend, as we move into the weekend. And it goes like this. To stay well so you can do well. [music]