Virtual Wildfire Timber Salvage Planning Guide Orientation (External) – June 2026

Okay, welcome everybody. Good afternoon. My name is Aaron Lindberg. I am the timber tenures forester with tenures compensation and business analysis branch. I am happy to call Prince George home and I respectfully acknowledge the ancestral lands of the Clay Tennena where I live, work and play. I am grateful for my fellow presenters on the call today, Bruce, Fred, Gretchen, and Jeff. And uh they'll be helping present along the way. And if there's questions, we will be able to field those as well. So today we're going to be talking about the wildfire timber salvage planning and admin guide. This is our second presentation uh orientation for this guide that was released originally in September of 24 and then in its more um completed final draft or final um form in February of 2025. So we did an orientation last June and so this is much like that. However, we've done a little bit of adaptation and um [clears throat] we there will be uh small edits coming out in a a third version of it hopefully in the next month or two. Really just looking at highlighting a few pieces from feedback we've received over the year and um ensuring that tools are top of mind and uh consistently being shared out accordingly. We were requested by the BC First Nation Forestry Council and Kofi representatives at a meeting recently to share this orientation again. So, we're happy to do so. And you'll notice that on the slide that I'm sharing, there's a video at the bottom. This is a link to a video that was created out of the merit area um as to success and collab from collaboration and relationship building that happened um locally there when it came to wildfire salvage. So, I encourage you to have a look at that video if you haven't seen it already. This recording, this recording, and this PowerPoint will be available as well when we're done. So, why you might be wondering why why did why did this guidance document come about? Um it like I mentioned it was created and released in 2024 and it was a joint initiative between agreement holders BC First Nation Forestry Council and government to coordinate processes for wildfire timber salvage. Uh it really was in response to the wildfire presence especially since 2017 and um pieces like relationships, planning, efficiencies, consistencies, processes and tools all in one place. These were all reasons why it was deemed necessary to make sure we had a collaborative tool. I'm just going to ask my team members um Gretch and Jeff if you see hands up along the way will you please um jump in and interrupt me because I'm really I'm really okay with us having conversations unless we have too many conversations and we have to go back to following the slide deck. But I can't see if questions are coming up. So help me with that if you would please. >> They'll do. >> Uh so the scope of the playbook, um simply put, it's to increase wildfire timber salvage in BC with these parameters. We want to see retention achieved and reforestation where it where we where reforestation is viable while considering all values on the land. Where can all the resources be found? One of the pieces that we wanted to make sure was that it was available as much as possible in one location. So you'll see that arrow pointing to the forest tenures website that houses wildfire timber salvage information. And so if you're ever in doubt where to go, one, you can come to this PowerPoint and these links are embedded within or two, you can go to this forest teners website. The other websites listed there are supporting documents and websites that go along with the permitting processes and they are all linked within the playbook as well. I think I neglected to mention though I might have the guide that I'm speaking of affectionately known as a playbook is just so that I don't have to say wildfire timber salvage planning and admin guide every time. So something to consider if you will on this call while we're going through the presentation we're always looking for feedback. What is working? What isn't working? what are our strengths? What are our weaknesses? And where can we improve? So, this is just me jotting down a few ideas from some discussions we've had. And definitely there's some blanks that can be filled in. So, we will come back to this uh slide at the end of the presentation. In the meantime, if you think of something, jot it down in the chat or the Q&A and uh we can review it at the end or be prepared with your comments towards the end of the presentation. So our agenda today is all about the playbook. Part one addresses five phases five phases of salvage planning. Part two are cool current tools and resources and we'll have a feedback opportunity at the end. So annually the Ministry of Forest releases its goals and you can see here that increasing wildfire timber salvage remains a priority for the province as we see it embedded in one of the four objectives. The playbook part one has five phases for timber salvage planning. Phase one really is about the planning and is encouraged to be reviewed on an annual basis for each forest district area in the advance of a fire season. Phases two considers the action that occurs during the wildfire or could happen during the wildfire. And phase three to five are post-w wildfire phases that prioritize timber and fiber recovery in a very short time frame. We know we have a limited amount of time to recover said timber before it deteriorates in value. In phase one, this is that preparation annual readiness planning piece. The outcome of this is a wildfire timber salvage strategy plan. The idea is to have something efficient and effective for a salvage approach. Where we're considering retention and reforestation, we must always remember those three go together. And considering the bullets that are mentioned here where we're aligning values if possible, understanding values and objectives, where we have this provincial guide for consistency with that local district area perspective, which is so important, where you're really considering who's involved, who's around the table, what is the inventory of mills that can take burnt wood and to what degree? and always be thinking about um BC Wildfire Service engagement as far as um potentially salvaging fire guard timber, what that could look like, and just maybe some of the local uh considerations that we won't know unless we have those conversations. We [clears throat] know that a shared understanding between forest tenure holders and decision makers regarding cutting permit application requirements and acceptable conditions and targets to be achieved on the landbased prior to reacting to a catastrophic wildfire event is a good idea. >> [clears throat] >> So this strategy plan that I speak of is captured just a visual there of the table of contents. This guide was developed with a subgroup of representatives uh since we released the playbook last spring. And the idea behind this is to um basically guide through the topics for consideration in this planning phase. Now a challenge we already know is we have conflicting priorities in our province and we have limited people resources. So we somehow have to find a way to work through that. And really the strategy plan is all about relationship building, collaboration and planning for salvage. This document will be available on that same forest tenures website under wildfire salvage resources. So roles and responsibilities very very important to outline this at the beginning. Identify who the partners are going to be. These are the these are the suggested partners that are outlined in detail in the playbook. And so um there could be there could be others and really it comes back to that local area perspective on who needs to be having conversations. So keep that in mind. We're trying to create provincial guidance for consistency. Always noting that that local perspective is critical and then ensuring that you have clear communication of responsibilities for those partners and where they come into the game. As mentioned, collaboration is key to everything we do. [snorts] Uh it's key here that relationship building development and maintenance must occur continue to occur that early and regular communication is happening between partners that we're leveraging meetings, gatherings that we're already having to have dialogue around salvage. Um and also maintaining awareness that there's varying support for wildfire timber salvage across the province depending on where you are. And again, that combined knowledge, experience, and collaboration between partners will help design the best management practices and planning for forest resources in relation to salvage. Well, Lenny, I see your hand up. >> Yeah, I think this is a definitely is needed. One of the things that that comes to mind is who initiates this? Is this a First Nations should be initiated or is or is this coming out of each district office or Right. >> It's a good question, Lenny. It's something uh the pro I'll say the province has been struggling with from the beginning of since this has been released. The leadership rests with whoever has capacity to do so. And what we're trying to do right now is we're trying to encourage strategy development out of the district offices. However, it doesn't sit solely on the district office shoulders. So what we hope to see is that by supporting strategy development at the district area level, there will be outreach that occurs to reach out to licenses and and first nations to start having these conversations and get the feedback starting to roll. Um that is the model we're currently using because we are aware of the lack of people resources to provide leadership on this and it is varied across the province depending on capacity. So if a first nation, if a lency happened to really want to prioritize something, they could lead in the outreach to the district to start the conversations. Okay, thank you. So on this nice busy slide, what we're trying to capture here is this is these are the rest of the phases. Phase one is all about the planning before wildfire season. So let's say November till March. Uh phase two to five is guidance and outlines how to prioritize CPS according to the status on the development timeline and the values, requirements, limitations on the land base that lead us to a no-go or a go-go. So the top arrow here is showing you what you would be considering in your area if a fire has occurred. Do you have any approved CPS? Is there a new or existing blanket salvage cutting permit in place? Is this an opportunity to develop FLTC major or the the NERFL associated with the Wasoa? Is there development and planning that can be occurring? Phase two is all about while the fire is burning. So you know where the fire is, you have an idea where it might spread to. be thinking about how you could jump into salvage by considering the timeline of those CPS or not. Phase three and onward exercises similarly, you're looking at your approved CPS. Do you have any in the area? Can you amend them to get on the ground quickly as soon as you can access the site? Are you developing new C new CPS? phase four tend to be looking at new CPS because you've already moved through phase three and on down the way. The bottom arrow is speaking to what kind of values and incumbrances and access issues um assessments are required to be able to do salvage as quickly as possible. Hence the looking at approved CPS first because you've done most of that work or you've done all that work because it's been through and it's it's already been issued. So these are the visual pieces to be considering as you're dealing with a wildfire in your area and they are captured from the playbook as well. So what we're doing with this pres this orientation presentation is we're tying you right back to the playbook. The playback is a very hefty document and it's used it's intended to be used as a reference. So this information is fully connected to the playbook. >> Oh now's a chance for Jeff to join us. >> Thanks Erin. Yeah, good afternoon everybody. I'm Jeff Shadford. I'm a habitat biologist. Um, and I advise staff around the province on the management of wildlife habitat areas and under the winter ranges. Uh, and in your encourage you in as you're doing your planning um to know the landscape and and by that I mean to know the the rules that apply on the land and under furpa there's many rules that apply across the landscape and then there are additional rules um for what uh to manage extra value the non-timber values. So, wildlife habitat, community watersheds. And so, I encourage you to know and work with your planning staff to know what those are. The the spatial the map data is available on the BC data warehouse. And then the extra rules that apply for forestry are available on the the government action regulation website and other websites um maintained by the government for those values. Um, so know know what applies and and recognize that there it's challenging and under the wildlife habitat area program we're managing over 50 different species of wildlife. So from rattlesnakes to grizzly bears to tailed frogs and so it the rules are different for different species and different areas in different parts of the province. So it is a challenge. We recognize that. But um the data is information is there for your access. And be aware that in a few cases um there's protected rare birds and reptiles where we actually don't release the name of the species and the rules and you need to actually have a data sharing agreement and that that can complicate things even an extra level. But I just wanted to point that out in case you're bumping into that. Um and then if we go to the next slide, um it's important to recognize that so these are values those ones listed there under the government action regulation um with the special rules in different parts of the the province that there are different if you need to apply for an exemption. So if there's a fire and you're interested in the areas, you're understanding the rules and they you might be a no harvest constraint. For example, if you think you there's a rationale to get in there or to get into part of the area, you can apply for an exemption uh for some of these and that the decision maker is uh sometimes in different ministries. So sometimes in the ministry of forest uh and sometimes in the ministry I work for the water, lands and resource stewardship. So that is another level of complication. that uh don't be dissuaded and um and I encourage you to talk for wildlife habitat particularly with the regional ecosystem biologists who are responsible for managing and making recommendations and working with licences. So, and if you have any specific questions uh you can certainly email me and I think we'll have some of that discussion at the end of this. Anyways, thanks for the opportunity. >> Thanks Jeeoff. Okay. Um, moving on to the playbook part two. This is where uh it houses current tools and processes available for timber salvage. And I want to highlight that there are two areas of salvage for focus and that would be our general timber salvage or standing timber and then fire guard salvage which is not standing timber. Uh from a permitting perspective, we still use the cutting permit for this. Um the there are tools available within the cutting permit structure that are able to be used on a case-byase basis as well. So both salvage are described in phase 2 to five. It tends to be a bit trickier for fire guard salvage, but we're still targeting that removal during phase 2 to five. It's trickier due to the loc due to the location and varying condition of said timber. So from a wildfire rehab perspective, we know that there's over 15,000 kilometers of fire guard constructed in BC since 2021. And BC Wildfire Service is required to address the fire hazard for these fire guards. They would like to see an increase in timber salvage as as Ministry of Forests would like to see. So there's four situations that fire guards are left in. And this is really from a for an awareness for everyone on the call in case you don't know. Um fire guards can have pushed over timber as noted on the far left where timber is literally a big schmuzzle in the bush. Um, it can be bunched and left in the bush as the second photo shows in piles or not. And tops usually are still on here. It can be decked roadside as you see in the third picture. 95% of the time they'll still have the tops on the trees. And then there's these large scale operations they have as shown in the far far photo there. So their primary treatment options to reduce the hazard associated with said fire guard are these three mentioned. They have pile and burn and lop and scatter as their as their two options if the timber is not salvaged. So, for obvious reasons, they're f they're trying to well, they're communicating a lot uh with tenurs especially to see if we can encourage the salvage of said fireguard timber. And I also wanted to acknowledge that Kyle Miller, wildfire rehab provincial specialist, has provided us with this information. He just wasn't able to present, so I get to today. So, it is best to contact the Natural Resource District to discuss opportunities for wildfire timber salvage as opposed to um BC Wildfire Service directly. Um it's good awareness, it's good to have the awareness that there are numerous departments in the BC Wildfire Service that are associated with cutting and harvesting of timber and therefore require the district involvement. Um, also note that there are um that not all districts are staffed for wildfire work to the same degree. And this visual here is just to help people understand the different areas within BC Wildfire Service. In the first column, prevention, preparedness, response, and recovery. And the highlighted in kind of that orangey color are the different programs that are um held at district with the wildfire risk reduction program. Um and wildfire suppression rehabilitation is something where BC Wildfire Service is working with the district and uh even under the response piece there could be that collaborative piece that we already talked about from phase one where we're all in the know and working together to figure out how best to extract timber on a in a timely manner. Now Gretchen's going to share. >> Good afternoon everybody. Uh my name is Gretchen Pristoick and I'm the North area revenue team lead. So you've got across the province two other folks who are in similar positions to me. Bruce Sullivan is in the south area and Fred uh is on the coast. We are all here to answer questions and help you navigate um the wonderful world of pricing which I'll talk about on the next slide. But this slide really is about two what we think are really um new and um helpful operational opportunities to um advance salvage opportunities. One is the ribbonless boundaries policy and the other one is comparative cruise. So when I'm done speaking I'll put the links to both of these documents in the chat. But the ribbonless boundary policy was um released in January of this year and basically it provides an opportunity for salvage without layout. Uh in a nutshell, there's some requirements and applicability that you need to be aware of um really around machines having uh geo referencing tools available so that they know where they are so that we don't trespass. Um you must use ribbonless boundaries in the interior with comparative cruise which is the second policy on the right. In the interior, we have a standard um policy. Uh Bruce just put it in the chat. Thank you. It's an interiorwide policy available at the link. Um if you want to do comparative crews on a cutting permit over 5,000 cubic meters, it's a decision that goes to our regional executive director. And if it's a smaller than 5,000 cubic meter cutting permit, it stays with the district manager. Again, lots of details on that policy in the chat. Thanks to Bruce. On the coast, things are a little bit different. um the red in each of the two coastal regions will make an approval decision and Fred and his team will walk you through the process to um apply and have your proposal reviewed. Any questions or comments on that from the group or from my colleagues? So, is is this similar to just how it's been in the past? Is this or is like I know it's in the it's in the uh it's in the playbook, but is this very similar to just how we've we've dealt with things in in the past? >> Good question, Lanny. So the um ribbonless boundary is new and it's a formal newness since January. It was being piloted in some areas previously, but now it's it's formalized and standard and hopefully much more available to um everyone across the interior. The comparative cruise policy in the interior has been formalized since 2024. So it's not necessarily new. Um but at that time [laughter] it was formalized also in a standard policy. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Anybody else? >> All right. Thanks again to Bruce for putting the um two links in the chat. The first one's the ribbonless boundary tool which is on the tenur's website and the comparative cruise policy is on the timber pricing branch website. Aaron, I think that's it for this slide. All right. So, next slide. When we think of um pricing considerations on salvage, uh we think of four programs. So, timber cruising appraisals or the stumpage rate determination on whatever cutting authority you will be applying for once the uh timber is cut or if it's already cut and you're accessing it and the scaling requirements and processes. And then lastly, waste and residue reporting if it's required. Um, this can be a challenging process to navigate. So, um, we've got lots of manuals that help provide consistency and transparency to everybody on the coast. Many of you will be much more familiar than me with the coast appraisal manual. In the interior, we have the interior appraisal manual. Um, again, if you have questions on pricing, we've got timber pricing officers across the province who are able to help you. If you're unsure who to contact, uh, I mentioned at the start of my section here, Bruce is in the south, Fred is on the coast, and I'm up here in North area. Um, the first bullet on this slide I didn't speak to, but I believe it was in 2024, Timber Pricing Branch made a big summary document that's linked uh there. I will put it when I'm done speaking. It's uh sort of the ins and outs of consideration, some Kohl's notes on pricing wildfire damage timber in BC. Um most of you working in pricing will be aware that our appraisal manuals are updated at least annually. The um interior manual is expected to have an update as per usual on July 1st. Uh if there's any uncertainty in those in that document specifically, do reach out to us. There's no stupid questions and we'll help you um on your objectives. That's all I wanted to say. Bruce and Fred, did I miss anything andor questions from the group here? >> No, I think you did really well. It's good. >> Thanks, Gretch. And and just to just to know the uh this this uh slide deck does have the link. So wherever it says here, that's the link to this document that Gretchen was speaking of as you can see in the blue ink there. So okay, so that's it. Now we move on to questions, comments and uh I hope that I hope that uh that was a good cover of the basics of the playbook. Um we do want to come back to our discussion our discussion page here and see if we can get some comments from the group. Um when we're thinking about all the resources that have been created uh since well I would say in the last 5 years when it comes to wildfire timber salvage uh we are curious around what is working what's not working and how we can do better and we're always open to feedback. So even if you think of something after this you can email us. >> You've got a question there. >> I see a hand up. Yeah. >> Go. Um yeah, question around uh fire guard salvage. Uh we were issued a a cutting permit uh to retrieve fire guard salvage wood and within the cutting permit document it stated the the requirement to conduct waste and residue uh post operations. Just curious if that was maybe an error from the district manager that issued the cutting permit because we were issued uh a permit for another fire guard uh that had a cutting permit that did not require waste and residue. So just I guess the question is uh where does the waste and residue apply or not apply with regard to fire salvage? Gretchen, do you want to take this or would you let me? >> Hi, Jeremy. Um, long time no see. [laughter] Uh, tricky subject. I think it would be best if you and I talked offline. I'm assuming with um the northeast district piece and maybe we can get everybody on the same page for forward looking. It can be pretty complicated. Gotcha. Oh, that sounds good. >> Yeah. Okay. I guess uh not to be ky but um you know if we're all thinking about doing wildfire salvage uh we just think about sort of the crown being made whole. So if the crown has if the crown is selling timber um and the lency has the opportunity to cut and remove most often there is a requirement to do a waste assessment. That's not always the case but if you're looking at your cutting authority documentation um you want to be thinking about what your obligations are. So Jeremy, that's a really good point. Uh to understand uh what you're required to do, also what the opportunities are. So our teams can help out with um scaling alternate methods of scale in some cases. Bruce's team has led a lot of work on providing concurrent residual harvest system opportunities for some burnt wood. So, we're trying as much as we can to innovate and provide economical opportunities to meet obligations. Um, but if we all are aware of what the obligations are and can talk about them and unpack them, we'll be better ahead. >> Thanks, Ken. Okay, there is a question for Jeff and I think before we lose Jeff here, I think it would be great if you could answer it. Brian Drobe in the chat >> regarding values. Can you see that Jeff? >> Yeah, I can just see it. I'm reading it now. >> Okay. um the the expediting those I would say it's it just goes through the regular process but I think the advantage of this conversation and what Aaron was introducing earlier was that you know who to call so you know know who the ecosystem biologists and the decision makers are in your region uh be familiar with the processes But in terms of I mean you if you're putting in a an application for an exemption and you put expedite on it that will get attention. I just can't say that depending on I guess a case by case uh really what it comes down to. >> But thanks for the question. >> Yeah Jeeoff it's Brian. So, I mean, given the significant amount of work that we've done with our partnerships um with First Nations to to get things expedited, uh I find it a bit disappointing that government hasn't take that initiative to remove any potential on the impediments to to get things rolling. I I think you know uh being species based or value based I think there is work that could be done proactively to understand the various circumstances that you'd come across um and you know and that could be timber type or extent of impact fire severity all those sorts of things that would a enable you to much much more prompt respond to you know either approval or variance required um so that you know that isn't one aspect of a holdup um given all the other good work that's occurred between companies and bands. >> Yeah. No, I I appreciate it. Um there is, as you said, there there is um expedited uh data available on fire um intensities in some cases. I I I don't tend to have access to that, but you know, my awareness is that there is information and the province is working to make that information available for planning purposes. But it still comes down to a case-by case basis. It's hard to predicate how intense is the fire uh the season before and and uh authorize something when until you might have to have eyes on the ground or eyes on the the data that's supporting the decision. So, I think that's where we're at. It's like there are processes to expedite this, but it's not necessarily going to um avoid the questions of how is it impacting the various species that I mentioned earlier. >> Hi, I this is Len. I I I like where where where Brian is going and I and I like where this discussion is right now because you know um we look at at opportunities and I'm wondering what you know again case by case or or region by region you know we're looking and if things like this can be can come up at our at our you know phase one of of of of planning because I I really do think that's that's the one thing is um when these things happen uh especially when u you have Let's, you know, I'll just, you know, the best case scenario, you you've got a a really good uh um lency uh that that has a great reputation and and a and a and a really good relationship at with the First Nations level and and and a lot of information and capacity and readiness, you know, that's sort of the best case scenario. And and I think that those are the things again that that should be added as as opportunities and what is needed because when when this happens, I think it's uh again it's it's the best to not have that as as an unseen hurdle that that comes once once you're trying to move it move it forward. So that's a this is a good good time to bring it bring that up as as an opportunity. Thanks. Would you say that that parap paraphrasing that would be phase one planning from what you just said there? Yeah, that's what I thought you said. >> Yes. >> Okay. I see less. >> Yeah. Just to further to Lenny's and a question for Jeff really I mean if you if you got the pre-planning done and all the players involved in that particular area agree I would suspect the pre-planning would indicate existing wildlife habitat areas what have you and the pre-plan would say okay what are we going to do should there be a fire the exemption piece just delays things and maybe there should be thought to put uh those areas that would qualify for no exemptions depending on the severity of the fire, where the fire was, and what level of pre-planning was done because I find the exemption is just an unnecessary delay in most areas, particularly if the habitat is destroyed. >> I appreciate the question. Um the issue is challenged by you know uh I've seen um unal winter ranges that have burned up and one could on one hand one might say the entire habitat is lost whereas you could also look at the area and say there is a lot of uh snow interception canopy left uh it's in some of it's very green some of it's very brown some of it's very black. It's hard to make that assessment until you actually have it. So, it's it's hard to give a a pre-exemption like that's the challenge that our ecosystem staff has when they're um overlapping. Uh, you know, and maybe an angel winter range isn't a great example. Wildlife habitat areas that many of them are much smaller. It's again hard to predetermine what what the impact of that uh fire is. If it's an underburn, it might actually have great improvement on that. Um it depends again on the species being managed for and the the extent of the burn. So uh just removing or providing a blanket exemption in my would be wouldn't be something that I would support or recommend. Um I appreciate people could make the case for that and that that's what I'm hearing but it is again case by case. >> Yeah Jeeoff and I don't think what's being suggested as a blanket exemption is always conditional. So you know in the I mean even these these ideas that you're raising uh those are the attributes that would consider it as part of a conditional exemption. So with the male deer winter range you know uh whether it be a size of a polygon or percentage of the the crowns that has have been damaged. Um there's other aspects of deer winter range such as access and regeneration and those sorts of strategies all of which could be put in place that very quickly understanding the circumstances that exist with a wildfire. Um, again, you know, as less suggested, uh, you know, an exemption route, uh, from our experience, you know, down to areas, you know, even less than a hectare just take forever to get approved. And, and I think even, you know, that element in terms of the magnitude of what's being contemplated, leaves an opportunity for uh, you know, to to bypass a variance or an exemption. >> Yeah. And I think that's why uh you know I think the program here is encouraging people to have those conversations uh bring those values and those variables. I mean it's these factors that you've that have been brought forward today that are impacting but in you know I work at a provincial scale. I think you need to speak with the Angula wind range managers in your respective areas. have those conversations in November uh as the case might be and bring those ideas forward and uh that's I think the the intent of this program. >> Just further to what Brian said, Jeff, I mean I didn't infer that there'd be blanket exemptions for everything. It's sightsp specific and I would hope that the people that are doing the pre-planning would have some indication from their local uh biologists or wildlife people there. And it just makes more sense. It's not really a blanket exemption, but as Brian indicated, a conditional uh, you know, go-kart rather than having to delay it by going through just a administrative exemption request, which has no bearing on what the outcome will be. >> Yeah. Well, um, the one of the challenges and I I see in in the slowness of the response sometimes is getting a prescription for what what's going to be left behind. And I think that's often the the concern for the wildlife biologists is and so getting that prescription and maybe working on some of what that looks like ahead of time would be also maybe an advantage for this group. >> Yeah, it really points to the strategy planning of phase one. And so, um, I think if you have those early conversations with the biologists in your area, um, from those partners around the table and just identify what are the what are the barriers in our area and how can we get a better understanding so we can move forward more efficiently. Like Jeff's saying, that is the whole point of the strategy. Mhm. >> It takes it takes person power up front and it's going to probably save time further down the timeline. And that's the challenge right now is it's that investment of time up front for something that might happen that is not translating to everyone. Um less >> yeah another not not on the same theme here but a question to Gretchen she indicated that uh you need to make the crown whole and that's that's why you have the waste and residue survey for these fire guards and I just question why in the sense that the first two pictures you showed Aaron where where the fire guard all the timber is just scattered are not utilized. And yet where we're able to harvest a fire guard, you're going to have to do a waste and residue their age. It just seems again uh an impediment for people for doing that because uh they are making the crown a little bit whole by actually making the fire guard efficient rather than burning more crown timber. So just understanding why you would want a waste and residue survey in that situation, it it just makes no sense to me. >> It's a good question and a good point. So not all of the cutting authorities that are issued to salvage timber will require a waste and residue survey. Um this is the sort of technicality and in intricacies of the process. uh when you are working with a district staff person, usually an appra or what are they called? Authorizations uh specialist, they will help you navigate what your obligations are. Um in some cases, if you're taking if you're purchasing u stacked logs, basically uh depending on the cutting authority, you might not have obligations for a waste and residue survey. The province understands, appreciates that waste and residue surveys can be cumbersome and can get in the way of um it's going to turn someone's mic off here. Um waste and residue surveys can be cumbersome and can get in the way. And so there's been many changes to the waste manual in the last little while to streamline the process and to reduce the costs of said surveys. We have tools um like simplified waste, uh district averages, all kinds of things. So again, we're kind of getting into the weeds. Probably don't need to talk about it now. Um, in general, our our requirements about making the crown whole are really about protecting the asset that is a shared resource um from the people of BC nations and and citizens, the crown, as I said, with crown. So, Lenny, go ahead. Yeah, you know, this is this is really a great discussion because although we're recognizing the the need to make the crown whole and and we're developing a level level of assurance, you know, the there also needs to be uh the other side of of uh funds available to make it operationally feasible, right? And and even the one thing is, you know, I've done I've done a few uh uh a few salvage operations on on, you know, so so if you're actually trying to salvage, you know, and get and get this wood and and move it in a in a timely basis, um you're you know, you've got kilometers of of uh of down and decked wood that you know, and then and you're you're doing a winter log, say, and by the time you come out, by the time spring comes, you're not going to go back in in there. and and of course you're going to get dinged with with waste and residue of of things that that are that are unseen because when you're a lot of a lot of the uh you know so I think that's the one thing is I would I need I I think salvage operations need to consider how how the fiber was you know was was made of was made available. Um the other one is uh just just putting forward examples. Um when is an unulant winter range not an unulate winter range? You know it's identified as one and then then a fire goes through. I just went through a two billion tree program uh replant and uh their biggest concern is that the uh um is that there's going to be a lot of blowdown from from the fur that was left behind and it wasn't taken after the fire because it was deemed unulate winter range and there's no there's no canopy whatsoever. But the but you know so I was looking at things and saying you know again even wildfire uh you know you you've got burnt areas that can contribute to allowable cal or you got burnt areas that can contribute to to um to operations forest operations um and and have a have a return that that we're looking in current current uh hurdles uh prevented and it's actually going to probably impede in the in the in the the rehabilitation of the the the planted trees that were were were put in amongst it. So those are things that I I keep thinking about as I think they're they're definitely things that should be considered when we're actually moving things forward and and so again that's that's the the ability to have crossorganizational uh discussions you know like with wildfire with ministry force with walrus um industry and and first nations uh but but these are these are some of the things that that and so so I look and say, you know, right now what is the current percentage of um that that that is actually uh salvaged, you know, and and to to areas burnt and what are what are the hurdles that are that are preventing that, you know, and so I I just keep I just look at it and just want to bring it up at this conversation. Thanks. Did Lenny, did I just hear you ask what are the current um salvage rates? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was just, you know, is it 5%, is it 50%. Right. >> From a general from a general perspective, we know that 5% of the THLB is available for uh salvage and >> right, >> we're seeing less than that um from an actual salvage perspective. Right. So when the province looks at salvage, we're wanting to increase that salvage number, >> right? So one is, you know, if the crown is looking to to be made whole, I think it needs to look at at the balance of of what it what needs to be out there in order for for that to happen because it it becomes almost a loss opportunity. Every percentage that that is not being salvaged is is a percentage of of crown uh loss. Yeah, exactly. And that and that tight timeline that we we have associated with timber recovery is so key to that. After 3 years, depending on where you are and what sites you're on, >> you're the fire's pretty much >> left. It's not it's or not the not the fire, the timber's left. It's no longer Yeah. >> worth recovery >> from a timber pentric perspective. Yes. >> Yeah. right now, you know, lack of better words, there's there's there's not enough carrots that that is attracting investment into into wild wildfire salvage. >> Yeah, this is this is the feedback we're looking for in this conversation. Um >> I'm curious if I just I see your your face here. Um March, I think it is. I'm wondering if maybe you have something you wanted to contribute to the feedback piece. >> Hi. Sorry. >> Hi. >> I was just trying to find that unmute button. >> No problem. >> Um right now I don't have anything um to add. What Lenny said was great. Um, but yeah, no, I honestly think this is a really good conversation and I'm really happy that we're able to talk about this today. >> Okay, great. Um, less. >> Yeah, just one more time. I mean, if you're the whole intent of this uh playbook and guide is to increase salvage and currently all I see is sort of impediments and weaknesses rather than opportunities as being positive. And I would say that under your weakness column Aaron, you should also put the 100% exemption requirement. And it's not just for wildlife, it's for, you know, visuals, etc., and other values that uh require exemptions. And from my perspective, maybe I'm just dumb, but I mean, if a visual corridor burns up, I'm not too sure what the aesthetics are there and why you would even look to get an exemption if a portion of it is salvageable. So, just a couple of comments for you to consider. Does that capture it for you in a summary? Hope so. Lenny, >> I think another opportunity again is um we're well below our our cut control. Um, not every everyone who holds a tenure um has has much volume. There's a lot of First Nations that have very little less than 10,000 cubic meters and uh and to apply that uh to uh to a to a burn and and losing losing an allowable cut uh um on a year. Um, so I'm looking at another opportunity is is maybe maybe we're going to have to uh create a process to apply for uh wildfire uh nerfles or other things. Um >> well, we have a we have a process under the wildfire salvage opportunity agreements for First Nations. And so so that that's something I'm glad you brought that up. I wanted to make sure it was highlighted in this um in phase uh one where we're planning this is where when nations come to the table they can express an interest in this wildfire salvage opportunity agreement. Yeah. >> In phase two when that fire is actually happening on the land base. >> This is an opportunity again for nations to come forward and say we don't have a forest license. We would like to have an opportunity to salvage in our area and the first step is this WasoA is the >> yes that has accompanying Nerfles and FLTC that would be issued post WasoA. >> Can I ask how much traction that's that's getting? And um >> well I think I'm guessing off the top of my head we have about 20 issued Wasoas in the province but I'd have to double check that for exact numbers. um Lenny. But yeah, so it is getting traction and it's also got the associated agreements having been issued once those fires happen. But the wasoa is a good agreement to put in place >> in the area regardless. I believe it has a 10-year term. I'd have to double check that, too. Um but there the link is in this spreadsheet. Uh sorry, in this PowerPoint as well. >> In the PowerPoint. Perfect. And and you know I I I brought that because I I I remember the discussion happening. I actually um I know that there was a local band here or local uh uh forestry group here that that applied but but other than that I I really haven't heard much. So it'd be really interesting to see what the the the hurdles or opportunities are within within that as well. Right. >> Thanks. >> Thanks for the question. said l again just under the values under weaknesses I would rewrite that and say where exemptions may not be required. >> Ah thanks I like it when you spell it out for me. >> I'm off to a another meeting. So >> thank you Lenn for being here. Yes. Okay. So I see in comment in chat Romero Marorrow says most major lency h licences have lots of undercut right now with TSRs being so far behind schedule. So potential there to partner if cut is an issue for first nations. Julie noted did you want to say anything more on that Maro? I don't know if I'm saying your name right but >> um no just just that that that's kind of the situation most major licences are in and and obviously First Nations a lot of these fires are happening you know right in their backyards but if they don't have the the cut to deal with it then you know there's a potential there. Um because there there definitely is unused cut uh right now and would be nice to facilitate the salvage Yeah. of the timber and hopefully the the cut isn't an issue or an impediment to that happening. >> Right. I I definitely think that so is a good agreement to uh bring top of mind. Again, thank you for that comment. I appreciate it. Any other questions? Um, I can't remember who said it might have been less around this the weaknesses and the the opportunities outweighing the strengths. Um I think what has been done from a tools and and process perspective has been a big strength and it stands under almost one bullet. the fact that we have so much available uh to try and ensure some consistency across the province and and to um hopefully create a venue for the Q&A opportunity like we're having right now or just that simple invite to provide feedback always to the tenures branch um or pricing branch. Um we're we're in this together. We're moving forward as best we can. We're noticing from feedback what's working and what's not working and these conversations. And so we really value that and hope to continue. And so if you do have further comments that you'd like to make um and you'd prefer to do it offline, please email myself and uh or or pricing a pricing person or Jeff and we'll see if we can get back to you. We'll make sure that we're all aware of those questions that came in so we can move forward in a better way together. Are there any last comments from my co-presenter uh Gretchen or Bruce or Jeff? I see Jeff's still here. >> We're all good. >> Yeah, thanks for leading us, Aaron. Um, like I mentioned, the email address is for the pricing folks are on a a slide deck, which are it clarify for us. That's in our email, right? >> This is going to get going to get posted to the uh the wildfire resource page there. So, available publicly. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, maybe I'll just cut and paste the pricing contacts in the chat. if you keep your window open, you'll be able to cut and paste them out of there. And thanks for hosting us, Erin. >> Yeah, thank you for helping with this. I really appreciate it. And to all those on the call, thanks for joining us today. I hope it was informative and appreciated. >> Thanks, Aaron. Thanks, Aaron. Thanks, professor. Thanks, everybody. Thank you very >> Thank you.