Trump Likes Golf and Building Things as USA Plummets (American Issues Take One)

Aloha. Welcome to American Issues Take 1. I'm Tim Apachelli, your host, and today's title is Trump likes golf and building things as the USA plummets. With me today is my co-host and CEO of ThinkTech Hawaii, Jay Fidel, Chuck Crumpton, mediator extraordinaire, and David Larson, law professor at Mitchen Hamlin School of Law. Welcome everyone. You know, on average, Trump is on the golf green once every 4.4 days of out of the week. Eisenhower, Kennedy, Nixon, Ford, all presidents that played golf and quite a bit as they dealt with the Cold War, inflation, societal problems, but they did not play every 4.4 uh times a day. Uh Trump does. They all had a work ethic to spend their day trying to lead America to a better place. Not Trump. Despite the Iran war, cost of living, trade problems, our president is preoccupied with on playing on the links and the White House ballroom construction, his proposed arch in DC, the refle reflection pool and the Kennedy Center. If it can't be solved, he goes on to the next calamity, of course, of which he caused. This is not normal behavior. And now after one term and two more years, we've seen a pattern. And what does that pattern remind us of? Uh for me, it reminds me of Nero playing in the streets of Rome as it burned. Jay, let's go to you. uh for the problems that we see, all the problems that are in the news, Trump seems to be unable to fix them, although he creates them and appears that he gets this sense of of frustration and he just walks away from the problem, walks away from the issue. Um then he resorts to things that he does best. He likes to build things. He's a, you know, he's a developer from way back in New York. Uh and he certainly likes to play golf. um the things he wrecks and I'll just give you the reflection poll. Uh he's no longer engaged in that, trying to repair it. Um he's wrecking things, but is is this just my perception or is Donald Trump wrecking things and then walking away from the mess that he creates? Well, I I try to put myself in his skin cuz, you know, all of us are somewhat compulsive or we wouldn't be here and we try to make the day count. We set out uh goals for the day, things we have to do, whatever it is, and we do it. But he is u I guess this his whole life has been like this. Um he doesn't he doesn't do that. He he does everything but the job. And so I think when he's out there playing golf uh with Natalie Harp and the like and uh you know others who are in his retinue, he's getting advice from them. And if you asked him, 'What are you doing? How can you play golf when all these things around around us are collapsing? Uh, he would say, 'Well, I'm I'm I'm thinking. I'm thinking. I'm out there playing golf thinking. That's what I do. I used to know a guy, by the way, who ran, you know, ran when running was very popular uh in Hawaii. and he would carry a time sheet with him, a law, a lawyer's time sheet, and if he was thinking about something, um, you know, he would write his time down while he was running. I'm not I am not kidding you. It's the same thing like when, you know, when he when he was taking all those documents and putting them in Mara Mara Lago, uh, you know, how how do you know they were declassified? Well, I thought I would declassify them. It was my thinking that declassified them. And so the same thing here, you know, he's not doing the job. He may claim that he's doing the job on the golf course. He's not doing the job. And I think that's his style. We're not going to see it any better than that. And so somebody gives him a bright idea about the $5,000 pre-election payout bribe. Um says, "Oh, okay. I'll do that." But that's that's something that one of his retinue, one of his miserable members of his cabinet or close associates told him to do. So I think the guy just doesn't do his job. He he hasn't done his job from the beginning and he is not going to do his job going forward. And so that's the kind of presidents we have president we have right now. >> Well, Jay, let me ask you this. I mean, is this a situation where his cabinet or his staff knows that everything he touches turns to, how do they say it in Spanish? Kaka. Everything turns to kaka. Um, is this an attempt by his staff to just get him out of the way and get him out on the golf course and and have, you know, fun over his construction problems so he doesn't make the world a worseer place and a a bigger mess? or is this something that they have no control over? >> No, it's a one-way street. He tells them what to do, they do it. Um although I you know I think some of the Kakami ideas come from them. Um but in terms of you know the uh the analysis um that's him based on advice from people around him. Um and the instructions go one way to them and they execute the instructions. I find it really hard to believe that some of his cabinet just repeats what he had to say without thinking and they are lying the same way he would lie. I there's many examples of that. But I I don't know if they really know he's he's unhinged. I don't know if they try to stop him from being unhinged. Um I rather think, you know, they just do what he says. >> All righty. Thanks, Jay. David to you. You know, the more serious the problem, the more Trump seems to be disengaged from it. Uh certainly Iran war comes to mind. Uh he seems to be completely removed from the reality of this quagmire which he and only he created. Remember he always used to say only I can fix it. Well, now only he can create these problems and he does. Um, and I'm thinking of an specific example of all the U AI techs, Sam Alman and and the like, uh, giving serious dire warnings to governments, specifically to the United States that we have a serious problem with AI. We need to put some guardrails in or or at least slow down the development of AI. And I I'm just flumxed on on a serious concern and a warning from these people. and they're certainly in a position to know what they're talking about is that Trump's uh response was and I quote it's a hoax or worse yet he said and this is unbelievable um the only control needed is a strong and smart in parenthesis high IQ president and the USA has that in spades. So I guess my question is this long- winded question is is it the more complicated the problem, the more he's disengaged, is golfing and the construction projects a form of escapism cuz he just can't seem to deal with it? And I guess a part B of this question is where is his staff to help him come up with solutions or andor advice? >> Well, interestingly, it's not always how complicated the problem is. I mean, the situation is that he'll he'll begin something and it doesn't go as he thought it would. So, even if it isn't complicated and might be fairly easy to understand, um, at that point, he'll walk away. So, it's not the complication, it's the fact that it's not turning out the way he thought it would when he first um first embarked on the enterprise. And you referenced Iran and uh I I mean he honestly thought that he could kind of bomb them into submission with involving no ground troops. Um we'd be in and out something similar to what happened in Venezuela and it was just completely misguided and uh that now he just doesn't know what to do. Um just a couple days ago um on Monday uh the Pentagon Inspector General issued a report um that's really revealing. Uh it reveals that Tomahawk cruise missiles have declined by roughly about a third um in our supply. Patriot and interceptor missiles are dwindling rapidly that their supply chain problems and we're not going to be able to to restock those armaments. Um that report says that between June February 28th and June 30th of this year, Operation Epic Fury cost $ 33.4 billion. Um these are really revealing numbers both in terms of the amount of money spent and what's happening with our with our armaments and our ability to defend ourselves and to defend other countries across the globe like Taiwan. Um so so the fact that he's ignoring these problems has massive implications and uh and again I think it's a situation that he begins with a presumption about how things are going to turn out and when they don't he doesn't know what to do. Um and at that point he he he does turn away because he's he's confused and doesn't know what the alternatives are. He also refers you referred to um what's going on with technology and it's like when the experts in the field when the CEO of Anthropic and um Chad GPT are coming out and saying this is getting out of hand we can't control it. Um the CEO of um of Anthropic said look we have we have three different platforms and they have gone rogue and they have they have hacked into other organizations um platforms uh and we didn't know it and we couldn't stop it. And now what we're really afraid about is that AI might be able to develop a disease um and then send it out over the world and basically erase humanity. That could happen. They could deploy weapons. They could hack into systems and deploy nuclear weapons. They can interfere with food and communication networks. Um they might even manipulate governments into conflict by sending a series of emails and messages or by altering them so that they're not saying what the speaker intended. And they're saying this is very real. It's very possible right now. And we need to step in and and install some guard rails. And for the president to say that I don't think so. um you know that it's just a hoax. It's just fake news is is genuinely frightening. Um you know, when we've got the most informed and educated people and the creators of these technologies saying that we're losing control of them, um we really have to pay attention to them and uh we do need to pause and put in some guard rails and it's just flatout reckless to to ignore that. Well, David, you know, I'd like to take you down memory lane um to late February 2020, and there was something emerging on the uh out of China called CO 19. And I distinctly do remember Jay and I doing a show about it, and I distinctly remember the quote uh in late February that it was a democratic hoax, that CO was a democratic hoax. And I I remember at the time thinking, how how could something that has this potential amount of uh destruction across the the world? Um be associated with a political uh attempt to make Donald Trump look bad. Um I think we're right back in those those days of February 2020. And I'm I'm amazed that he's blown off this AI warning the way he has. Um, so I'm I'm really glad you you pointed out the specifics of this warning and I'm I'm wondering to what degree do you think his uh diehard supporters are now starting to question his his ability to protect the country? That's that's the primary job of a president is to protect the country. Um he doesn't seem to engage in doing that. Your thoughts? >> Problem is that his dire supporters basically believe whatever he says. Um, you know, a few weeks ago he said that, uh, we have more araments and munitions than we could ever use. Um, which is just a ridiculous statement. Um, the problem is we have some people that are so devoted to to him that they'll just accept whatever he says, no matter how nonsensical it is. So, so that's, you know, that's the concern. if he says it's a hoax, even though all empirical evidence and all facts dispute that statement, there are people who will say, "Well, he said it, so it must be true." And and that's what's tremendously frightening. So, um yeah, I guess I I guess I I'm not assured that people will think critically and um uh ignore what he says or or reject what he says um because they haven't demonstrated that. >> Right. All right. Thank you. appreciate that, Chuck. In 47 days or so, the midterm elections will take place and we'll decide if um the voters will decide whether or not the Democrats take control of the House and the Senate and or both. And uh we're dealing with, you know, some serious issues, but Trump doesn't seem to really care that his poll numbers have tanked. I think he knows that he's going to lose either the House or Senate. And I I just don't think he seems very concerned. Um to what degree would Donald Trump think about the remaining two years of his presidency as a lame duck? Uh what do you think was going through his mind? And I hate to ask you what's going through his mind, but I just did. Uh what do you think is going through his mind as he thinks he's going to be the next lame duck president for a 2-year period? >> Good question, and it kind of goes a lot of different directions. The first one though is to step back with the assumption in the question that voters are going to make decisions that will have an impact. Jay has raised this many times before. I don't think we can assume that. Mike Johnson has come out and said basically he's not going to install Democrats no matter how the election comes out. Trump is engineering a process. Cash Patel, formerly in a previous life known as Ishkabel, said yesterday that he was going to send federal troops and FBI to election places. They will do everything they can to prevent the election from going forward. in a manner that can be sustained and implemented and the results from being sustained and implemented. So that's the first question. The second one which is equally important is regardless of how the election comes out. The question is going to be who are individuals and groups who may come together to actually stand up to Trump because your comparison to Nero in your opening remarks was in the right direction but it gave him too much credit for being an adult. I think we have to look at this as if you were dealing with a squalling, angry, outofcontrol child, an infant whose only objective is to get attention and to become the center of attention. And all of his recent actions fit into that pattern quite well. He continues his three methods which are distraction, deception, and projection. Who's going to stand up to that and put a stop to it? Is it going to be the press after the election? There's no reason to believe that. Is it going to be the Congress after the election? There's still no reason to believe that. regardless of what's done to prevent the Democrats from actually being seated in positions of authority. So, Senator Scheler's remarks that the next administration, the next government, the next Congress is going to hold people accountable. There's a lot that has to happen for it to reach that point. >> Yeah. And I I've heard discussions that there's certainly more than enough um qualifying actions that would warrant an impeachment, yet another impeachment, but the likelihood of an impeachment is uh from slim to none. So, it's interesting. uh maybe they learned something the first time and that is they have to get things done to to satisfy the American public uh so that they can put you know food and gas uh you know in their household and um get something done. So uh this back and forth uh of retaliation has to stop at some point I would think. >> But it raises one question right? Are there things that could happen going into the future before and after the midterms that could lead the Republicans to believe the MAGA GOP that they're better off transferring the power to Vance and putting him in position to run as an incumbent in 2028. That's another scenario that we haven't really looked at. I Oh, we've discussed it in the past and we've discussed what's the viability of the 25th amendment being invoked. Um Trump's behavior is acting so bizarre and his responses to problems and issues are are so bizarre. You would think that discussion amongst his cabinet would have taken place long ago, but of course it doesn't. >> If I could jump in for a minute. >> Yeah, jump on in. >> Yeah. you know, that that may be a kind of a logical thought in terms of preserving Republican control of the federal administration, but we can't forget the fact that that's going to happen over Trump's dead body. There's like he's such a narcissist that the fact that by any objective reasoning it might make sense to do that to position Vance uh to win the next presidential election, but he's not going to do it. Um I I just can't imagine him gracefully stepping aside um you know the benefit of the Republican party at large um and kind of remove himself from the center of attention. I I just can't imagine that happening. >> Well, you know, you don't have to imagine it, David, because it actually happened after the election in 2020 or 2019. Uh he wasn't going to step aside and he orchestrated the attack on the capital. So, uh I think you're spot on. Uh that he would not he would not step aside. he'll come up with some reason to um you know to blame someone for things that he's done or or the fact that he was lost in a landslide or his administration did and um he'll come up some reason why he's not going to be held accountable for it. So, you know, and and he doesn't think and I I don't think he I think he believes to control the election um in November and that the Republicans will not lose that he can do enough things that they will not lose the election. And just, you know, just last week at that that midyear Republican convention, if you recall, he asked the people attending the convention to raise their hand and pledge quote that I'll do it anyway. I don't care if I'm registered or not. I'm going to try to cheat like hell like they do. We're going to vote November 3rd. He's just he's put it right out there. I'm going to do everything possible. >> Oh, that's a good point. Excellent point. >> Lawful or not. >> Lawful or not. Thank you, David Jay. Um, okay. So, you're a current Republican House representative or you're you're a Republican senator. How close do you get to Donald Trump to either endorse you or not endorse you? How close do you get to uh settle up next to Donald Trump that ensures that you are going to be reelected or do you walk away as far as you can as fast as you can? Interesting question. Well, I I think that um that these guys are going to continue to suck up to him because they don't want to be the object of his anger and uh most of them most of the Republicans, you know, won't won't contest his moves. Some of them are and will. But you know, just like the base doesn't have that much effect on what's going on, the guys in Congress don't have that much effect on what's going on because this is really impeachable. It's all impeachable. What he's doing now is so unhinged, so crazy that I think he, you know, he that Trump wants to create chaos among the electorate. That's one thing. He wants to do all these cheating things on the election. That's another thing. Um and finally, um he wants to intimidate or whatever psychological mechanisms he may want to use on his cabinet who go along with him on all the lies. I find it really extraordinary that you take all of the crazy things he's been doing, his cabinet supports him. Why? Because he will terminate them. And likewise, you know, when when Hitler faced the possibility of an assassination uh attempt by his cadre, he he had them all killed. Okay, that's nice. But in this case, he doesn't Trump doesn't have to do that. Um he just fire them. Fire them all instantaneously. And that's the same thing. So, you know, if we're uh you know, circling around the issue of uh whether he can be impeached, there's no way, Jose, that he can be impeached. All these guys have uh have had have had the juice. They are not going to vote against him because he will fire them before they get a chance. And that that's the reality of it. So, I'm I'm not optimistic about this. As I said, um the electorate can't do much right now. uh the GOP cannot do much right now and the cabinet which should be doing its job and initiating uh an impeachment to get him out of there can't do much right now. But there are there are external things you know uh oh and by the way the lies that he is telling are just really incredible. For example um the Iran conflict is going to go away right after the midterms. Oh, that's nice. Uh, and inflation is going to go away right after uh midterm. I mean, all you have to do is accept short-term pain for long-term gain. Um, and he he has sort of denied accountability on everything that he's done. So, it's on the one hand, he stamps his feet. He says, "I'm going to close the Kennedy Center," which he's doing, and I'm going to ignore the uh the reflecting pool and all the other things which he's failed at, and the war, I'm going to turn my back on the war and all that. Um, but he lies about all these things, and his cabinet sort of gives you the metric of exactly what they would do in the case of a a uh an impeachment. Um but the the the outside director is that he's a sick man and a lot of us have ignored this whole issue about the psychological breakdown we are observing. You know we've said for example that you know you can't make a psychological diagnosis unless you uh interview the person you know give him therapy in a in a clinical uh setting. Uh and and we've sort of escaped or denied um the reality that he is he's a broken person. into a broken person. Well, it's possible that he the breaking will be completed soon because the things he is doing are so reflective I hate to use the word reflection are so reflective okay um of of the breakdown that one of these days and it could be any day it could be tomorrow morning um he will completely collapse and I mean you know be completely nonfunctional now in the case of Woodro Wilson who had a stroke in 19 1919 I think and could not serve his his wife stepped in and the people this retinue around him didn't tell the country so his wife got got away with running the country that may happen with Steven Miller and Miller might be better at dealing with these absurdities than Trump himself um but I think that's a factor if you want to find optimism here anywhere is is that Trump is collapsing mentally and physically and that will change, you know, the circumstances. >> Let me let me take issue with you on that one because I I've seen Mitch McConnell in a state of almost a vegetative state and yet he's being paraded out in a wheelchair. Um and and he's he looks almost comeos to me. Um yet they wheel him out and they're certainly happy to accept a vote from him on the floor. So, I mean, to what degree does someone have to be completely in a state of deterioration before they're no longer acting as a senator or the House representative? >> I don't know. But it's different between McConnell and uh and Trump because Trump as a as a pathological person, he can't handle criticism. And the Supreme Court may maybe the Supreme Court is key to all this. They keep ruling against him. he is going to go more nuts. Um, and he can't stand it. He'll do more bizarre things. And and that actually is a loop because the Supreme Court, you know, if he offends the Supreme Court, criticizes the Supreme Court, even especially his appointees, they're not going to like it. They're not going to like it and they're going to turn against him. And so later on, they'll do other things that will uh, you know, uh, deny his initiatives. So, and that'll speed up the process. Uh, I don't know if that that kind of phenomenon exists around his cabinet. I rather think that his cabinet, you know, we we call him Mr. Secretary this and Mr. Secretary that. They're all a bunch of clowns. Clowns. And they're, you know, they're not about to uh, you know, run against him. But maybe, just maybe, it will be so bizarre um that some of them will break loose. And if the media is watching this and turns him in on that and if there are leaks coming from the staffers around the White House and these various departments um you know that will speed up the process the loop and he will not be able to contain himself. And don't forget the possibility that the hamburgers may have their day. Uh the hamburgers may may solve all of this for us. I know one person who is devoted to sending him hamburgers every day with French fries. >> Okay. Yeah, I think I know who that is. Um, okay. You know, we've talked about this 25th Amendment issue before. Uh, but we've never I've never asked a question or we've never come up with the what is the the thing that crosses the line so that his cabinet says that's a bridge too far. um it was January 6th if you remember that that looked like that was going to be the dividing line of of of his support versus uh not support. Is there a dividing line or an action or or a newsbreaking story that says we've got to enact the 25th amendment? Is there any such thing Jay? >> Well, I think um so far no. Um but there there are various threats which easily e any of them could become uh that phenomenon. For example, the the war in Iran, Middle East is getting much much worse. Every day it gets crazier and he's turned his back on it. He can't do anything. Oh, you send the bombers in. Let's throw a few bombs in and let's give Israel, you know, 2,000 pound bombs and all that. That's not going to solve the problem. Um, and so the more violent it gets and the more ineffectual he becomes, the more he turns his back on the real deal, uh, the more he doesn't take any steps whatsoever to alleviate the violence and the war. Uh, still lies about what what does he call military conflict or military operation. He doesn't even even now doesn't call it a war. The whole Middle East is on fire. Well, it's getting worse and it there will be a point I suggest to you that it gets so bad um that the world will have to see this, you know, and the tariffs he's lost he's lost his allies hither and yan. Um yesterday there was news that the EU was going to make Canada an associate member of the EU even though it is not in Europe. Um you know all these things are happening that are pulling away from him. Finally, you you have the BRICS group which is moving away from him and taking greater greater risks actually to undo his government, Trump's government. So any one of these things could get worse and as I mentioned before, you got this loop going on. The the worse they get, the more the worse he gets and then he's going to get really crazy. Now whether that will ever turn his cabinet against him, I don't think so. um because his cabinet are sworn clowns. Um so I don't I don't think that there's going to be a what I call it a legal solution to this but I do think that he will react in such a way so that he cannot function and the only question is whether we will have a another Woodro Wilson scenario. >> Uhhuh. Okay. Hey, thank you Jay. Uh David, you know, Trump recently announced uh with a straight face that every adult, US citizen adult would receive $5,000 if the GOP retains the House and the Senate. uh quite an amazing claim particularly after uh promises of tariff refunds and and uh other benefits that promised were promised by Donald Trump to the American public which never came to the forefront. Uh, but if you're a lowinformation voter, and I hope I put that politely, uh, if you're a lowinformation voter, do you think that the promise of $5,000 is a good enough reason to turn out and vote and perhaps you thought maybe you weren't going to turn out and vote because your your gas is way too much for your your Tundra truck or there's not enough money for a simple little summer vacation or you're cutting back on what you could supply for Um, does the $5,000 give you new incentive and a new reason to support Donald Trump? >> You know, I just hope people remember that there's been a lot of broken promises. I mean, no foreign wars. Mexico is going to pay for the wall, the wall. I'm just broken promise after broken promise after broken promise, you know. So, they hope that people will say that this is just another promise that's probably going to be unfulfilled. And it doesn't take a lot doesn't take like a mathematician to understand that if you're going to give that much money this to that many millions of people that our debt which is already exploding is just going to go even farther up beyond our imagination. We we just can't afford to do it anyway. So, I'm hoping that even if you're not highly educated um or you're not really interested in being a critical thinker when it comes to this particular uh president that you will understand that there's been a lot of promises that have been made that are broken and that any reasonable person will understand the cost of doing this is prohibitive. I it just it just can't be done. Um, you know, we were talking a minute ago about what would what would trigger impeachment? You know, if we bring an aircraft carrier close to Iran and somehow there's an attack that kills um uh American sailors on board that ship. You know, if if people are getting killed in Iran, maybe then maybe that would be the motivation to bring an impeachment action. Um the the legal basis for that action is unquestionably there. Um he has removed National Labor Relations Board members, Federal Reserve Board members, Federal Trade Commission members all unlawfully. Um he can only remove them based upon malicious actions and neglect. And none of those things have been alleged. He's just declared I have the that all federal agencies report to me and I can dictate their their actions and they have to do what I say. Um he doesn't have that kind of power that asserting that kind of power and taking those un unlawful actions is ground for impeachment but we haven't had the will to do it. But if we had something like um the unfortunate and tragic situation where suddenly Americans are getting killed and this Iran involvement then then maybe that would do it. Uh I I I hate to think that's what it would take but that that's possible. >> All righty Chuck um of all the things that Donald Trump is ignoring at this time and there's a long list of things that he's ignoring. um things that he's created uh the chaos created but he now seems to want to ignore. Uh of all the things that have been ignored, which one thing do you think will stick like superglue to his legacy uh as a failure of of his administration? That's a great question because there are so many >> I know there so many but what's the one >> so many stars you could put up on that on that flag but I I think the one that's really at the center of it is that if the midterms go really strongly against Trump and if subsequent to that over the course of time as Trump's time in office gets less and even though he'll resist it to the maximum, the need for Republicans to start to plan for somehow maintaining control or gaining control. Those are the areas where the major battles are going to be fought and those are going to be the ones affecting electoral choices and the actions of the elected officials particularly the legislative officials and the role of the courts will become far more important in trying to protect those. So I think the electoral results and the actions of the two other branches, Congress and the courts after the elections, after the midterms, are going to be where we see the most potential for significant change affecting his legacy and affecting ours. >> I want to add one point to all of that which we haven't mentioned just yet. U and that's Vance. Vance would be president if Trump couldn't be. Vance wants to run again in the next presidential election. He wants to be president. Um and if he goes along, and we've seen little cracks between the two of them already, particularly on the war. Um then if if he goes along with everything Trump does, he's he's going to inherit Trump's baggage. Don't you think he he is going to have a huge impediment in the next election? Um assuming there is a next election, but I think there will be a next election and and Trump will not be able to control it the way he's trying to control the midterms right now. Um and if Vance has that baggage, it's going to be very hard for him to win the presidency next time around. So, at some point, and if you're looking for a fair broker here, at some point, Vance's best move is to separate himself from what Trump is doing. And I think that's a powerful possibility because he could have a lot of pressure on Trump. He could really break Trump uh if he takes a position uh that is opposing Trump on some of these crazy things. We have to watch Vance. Vance is um an important influence on this whole issue. >> Thanks for jumping in. Um before we go to final uh thoughts, Jay, do you have the same question to you and that is what one thing do you think really sticks to the legacy of Donald Trump given either his first term or the second term as president of our country? Well, for us, for us guys, and for a lot of the shows on Think Tech, the war sticks and his failure to defend Ukraine uh is really awful. And that oligarch who paid for his son's wedding, that's may I say, disgusting. Um those things stick for me. But um the people who are the swing voters, the independents if you want, and some of the base, they're going to look around and see people who can't get medical care, uh can't can't uh rent a house or an apartment, um who can't buy groceries, uh and so forth, can't buy, you know, a gallon of gas. Those things are not going to change. They're going to get worse. As the war gets worse, those things are going to get worse for sure. and the Houthis are making, you know, very sure that that happens as well as and as proxies for Iran. So, uh, if you ask what's going to stick for them, it's the domestic issues and it's it's the economy stupid, that sort of thing. And we're having that now. And the whole and the whole affair with the tariffs and there a lot of people in this country still believe that tariffs are paid by the other countries. Unbelievable. They don't know and they don't understand the issue and what Canada is doing and and the collaboration of Canada with both Europe and Asia and China. Uh they don't know. It's not it's not in their wheelhouse to know. But they do know if they can't buy a gallon of gas. So if you want to know what sticks, it's the economy sticks. >> Yeah. As James Carbell always said, uh it's the economy, stupid. And uh it's amazing how president after president keeps forgetting that lesson. Uh good point, Jay. Thank you. Uh you know, we've run out of time, so uh let's go around the table here and I'll start with uh David, I'll start with you. Uh your last thoughts on this topic. >> Yeah, I'll just kind of continue that theme of of what's going to stick. Yes, I think the Iran war will stick. Um, but I also think that what'll stick in a less obvious way perhaps is that this has been a presidency that's trying to exert unprecedented executive power. And I think with the way he's firing heads, independent heads of agencies, um I think that one thing is going to stick is that there's going to be a reaction to that, that there's going to be legislative efforts to rein that in and protect um uh independent officers and kind of pass laws to to again re in that executive power. And I think that's going to stick um you know because right now the by any objective measure um this president's acting unlawfully. But I agree with Jay on on on a more emotional level what's going to stick is the fact that you told me prices are going to come down and now diesel is over $6 a gallon. Um you know gas is even in the Midwest over $4 a gallon gallon. you you promised that and you failed to deliver and uh and I think that's going to that's going to stick too. >> Yeah. >> Let me add one thing to that. Let me add one thing is if Trump sends the troops in or has casualties greater casualties in the war that's going to stick. There's a lot of family and friends and what have you people who know those soldiers and if they start dying um that is going that's going to stick. >> That's true Jay. I mean, when I think of Lyndon B. Johnson, our president, the first thing that comes to my mind is the Vietnam debacle. Um, oh, and despite all the good things he did for voting rights and and you know, trying to help out people that were economically disadvantaged, but right to the top was the Vietnam War that comes to mind. So, and the protest was associated with the Vietnam War. So, good point. Thank you. Uh, all righty. I uh Chuck, your last thoughts, please. I think over the long term Trump's own image of corruption, of greed, of avarice, of very white nationalist prejudice. It is going to become clearer and clearer. You see it in the political cartoons. I think those are pretty good representation of what's going to visually stick in the minds and memories and emotions of Americans, the way they're going to see him. >> Yep. Uh amongst other things. And for me, what comes to mind, believe it or not, that I think sticks with him is the way he approached and handled CO. Uh we had over a million Americans die as a result of CO. And if you're a family member of one of those that deceased because of CO, you may remember that as part of his legacy as well. So anyway, I'd like to thank uh everyone for a fruitful discussion on this topic. Uh Jay Fidel, Chuck Crumpton, and David Larson. This is America's Issues Take One. I'm Tim Achel, your host, and the title of this show has been Trump likes golf and building things as USA plummets. Perhaps the title should have been as Rome Burns, Trump plays golf. Anyway, why don't you join us in a couple weeks and until then, I wish you all aloha. Thank you. Thank you so much. I could have been a goner. >> No problem. Where were you going anyway? >> I was going home to my treehouse to watch talk shows on Think Tech Hawaii. >> Think Tech Hawaii? I know about ThinkTech Hawaii. Can we watch it together? >> Of course.