Town Council Aug 17, 2026

And if Amoris Media is ready, can we start recording? >> We are recording. >> Thank you. Before I call this meeting to order, I want to explain um Oh, Sam, can you turn off your audio? Leave computer audio. >> I should join this panelist. Um Thank you. And I think that's Yeah, thank you. Um I'm going to explain the the run of the night for meetings because there's actually three meetings being held tonight. Um um and it was a little bit confusing to people. So I want to make sure people understand what's going on before I call the forum to order. Um the first meeting that is being called to order when I call it to order will be a public forum on appropriations. Three four different appropriation orders. That public forum is both a council meeting, special meeting and a finance committee meeting. Because the finance committee meeting has not met on two of those orders because they have been reduced in time. When the public forum is over, the council will adjourn their public forum meeting, the public forum. There is a separate agenda for the finance committee that included the public forum and discussion by the finance committee. So when the council adjourns the after the public forum is over, the finance committee will remain in session to have a discussion on the two financial orders that they have not seen in the amount that they have that they are up for tonight. When they are done that discussion and a possible vote on a recommendation, regular meeting of the town council to order. So there will be a time between the public forum and the regular meeting where the council will not be in session but the finance committee will be in session. I hope that is clear to people. Um I don't know how long the finance committee will take so I cannot estimate how long that will be but that is how this tonight will happen. Um and so are there from counselors before I call the public forum to order. Are there any questions about any of that? Um, I don't see any hands. So, um, with that, um, I'm going to let the time hit to 6:33 so I gain an extra minute. Um, good evening. Seeing a presence of a quorum, I am calling the public forum on appropriations outside of the budget for the town council to order at 6:33 p.m. Please be advised that this meeting is being held in person and that remote access for members of the public is provided as a courtesy only in the event of technology issues with the remote connection. The meeting will continue in person as scheduled as long as there is a quorum of the council present in the town room or through technological means. Chapter 2 of the acts of 2025 extended through June 30, 2027 the ability of public bodies to meet without a quorum of the council physically present at the meeting location. Although a quorum of the council is present in the town room. This meeting is being recorded and is accessible in real time via Zoom, phone, and as a live broadcast on Ammeris Media Channel 9 and at ammerismedia.org. At this time, I will call upon each counselor by name the name that they have indicated that they would like to be addressed. This will indicate that we can hear you and you can hear us. Councelor Brevik >> present. >> Thank you. Councelor Cano Martin I believe will be absent tonight. Uh councelor Churchill will be absent tonight. And Andy Churchill will be absent tonight. Anna Anna Devlin >> present. >> Lyn Greimemer >> present. >> Mandy Johanni is present. Councelor Lord. Sam Mloud >> present. >> Pam Rooney >> here. >> Councelor Ryan >> I'm here. >> Kathy Shane >> I'm here. >> Jennifer Tob >> here. And councelor Walker is absent tonight. If counselors have technical issues, please let the council clerk know or call a point of personal privilege. There will be no general public comment periods during this public forum. There will be public comment. That's the whole point of the forum on the financial orders. Um, at this time, I'm going to turn it over to Kathy Shane to call the finance committee to order. >> I'm calling the finance committee to order. The counselors who are on the finance committee are all here and that is Lynn Griezmer, Sam Mloud, Jill Breick, Councelor Brebeck, and Anna Develin Gothier. And I want to call the resident members uh to make sure they can hear and be heard. And right now, I see only one, Kathleen Mitchell, >> here. >> Excellent. Are we ready then, Kathy? >> Yes, we're good. Excellent. Okay. So, we will be moving on to the public forum on supplemental budget appropriations um for charter section 5.6. Uh more than one half the time of this meeting will be devoted to public comment. These are on this public forum is on four financial orders FY2704B for the Pelum Treasurer Collector Services, FY2704C and FY2705B for Wildwood Elementary School Care and Custody and FY2706A PIFA appropriation for monitoring and remediation. Um, at this time, anyone wishing to comment or ask a question specific to the financial orders that I just spoke to, please raise your hand in the Zoom application if you are present in the town room and have not signed up with our IT. Um, Sean, please do so now. Residents are welcome to comment or ask a question specific to the financial orders related to this public forum. It is not a general public comment period. That period will take place during the regular town council meeting that begins later tonight. The public forum comments or questions are not reflective of the opinions of the town council. Because this is a public forum, if questions are asked about the financial ortors, there is a potential for them being answered. Um there are no hands I give me a second. There are no hands raised in the Zoom application. Um, has anyone signed up to make public comment during the public the public forum? >> Okay, one person has. So, um, every each commenter will have three minutes to make their comment or ask their question. Kathy, you have your hand raised. >> Yes, I see that Jeffrey Robert, who is a member of the finance committee, has joined us and I just want to make sure we can hear and he can hear us. Jeffrey, if you could unmute and just let us know everything's okay. >> Yep, I've got audio on my side. I'm good. Thank you. >> Thank you. Excellent. Thank you, Kathy. Um, so, um, Vince, please come on up. State your name and where you live and make your comment related to the appropriation orders. Vincent Okconor, 175 Summer Street, Department 12. Um, first I'd like to remind the council that uh the usual practice has been to post um the agenda of your meeting including a which includes usually a brief description of of the various activities including this forum and there is no posting on the the door of your meeting. So I I would just urge you to um try not to have that happen again. The second comment I have to make is has to do with what is not um one of the proposed orders and that is to restore to the schools the money that was improperly removed from the budgets of the elementary and regional schools by the town manager. acting alone on his own and especially with regard to the regional school budget improperly and illegally. And quite frankly, before the council spends any money outside of the budget that they passed in June, they ought to make both the elementary schools, the Ammerst school system, and the regional schools whole and in such a way that make in making them whole that the that the monies that would uh would should have been in their budget in the past would go into the base of both the elementary schools and the regional schools for the purpose of formulating uh subsequent budget proposals um for the next fiscal year. Um I think it is a growth omission to not look at this issue and understand the impact that those budget cuts improperly conducted and supinely uh um dealt with by the council. um need to be um uh remediated by the council itself and the both school districts need to be made whole in a very positive and constructive way. >> Thank you Vince for your comments. Sean, has anyone else signed up to make public comment at the public forum? And I see no hands raised on the Zoom application for the public forum. Um, it is now 6:40. So I will make a motion to adjourn the public forum. Is there a second? >> Jane seconds. >> Kathy seconds it. Um, we will move to a vote. Uh, councelor Breivik. >> Yes. >> Councelor Kennel Martin is absent. Andy Churchill is absent. Anna Devlinier >> I. Lyn Greimemer. >> Hi. >> Mandy Johannick is an I. Councelor Lord. >> Hi. >> Sam Mloud. >> Hi. >> Pam Rooney. >> Yes. >> Councelor Ryan. >> Hi. >> Kathy Shane. >> Yes. >> Jennifer Tub. >> Yes. >> And Alicia Walker is absent. That is unanimous. Um at this time the council is out of meeting. We will call to order the regular town council meeting after the finance committee adjourns. But I pass the gavl over to Kathy to resume the finance committee meeting and discussion. >> At this time, we're we're having a special meeting of the finance committee and it's mainly to focus on the two financial orders which Wildwood which were revised and they're substantially different than what we saw and had time uh to talk about. And so rather than having those postponed to be discussed tomorrow, there was a decision to have them be discussed tonight and all the finance committee members were notified of this. So Mandy, I have a question. Do I need to recall us to order? Are we still in a >> You're still in order. >> Okay. So we are still in order. So um we sent several questions in advance. Um, and um, I see that Shawn Magnano and Jeremiah are both with us. Um, I I don't know how you want to handle this, but let me just give a brief description for anyone both other council members, but anyone in the public who's listening. The original financial order for Wildwood, there are two of them. One is for the operating budget and one is for our capital budget. And initially the order that we had reviewed were assuming because it actually had taken place that the recreation department staff would be located in Wildwood. They had been in the middle school and the middle school decided that they couldn't be there anymore. So they were located and moved. So we had an occupied building with yes not very many people, seven staff members in the building. So, the operating budget reflected a full-time custodium and fairly substantial use of electricity, heating, and other kinds of utilities. And the capital budget assumed um as much as $100,000 in capital needs because the location of the recreation department was near the gym and it wasn't accessible. So there were some physical things that might have had to been done to the building. Following the time we met in July, the recreation department dis announced that they didn't want not want to be in that building because of the building conditions and they've since been moved to Bangs and Bangs initially was not or will be moved to Bangs. Bangs was initially not available because it was being reconstructed and renovated. So they will now be in bangs and Wildwood will therefore not be occupied by any ongoing staff people at this point. The other potential use of Wildwood was if the uh DPW building decided that it needed swing space. Wildwood was potentially a swing space as of this summer. There are design decisions or options that are being looked at for phase construction and they might not need swing space. That isn't certain at this point, but right now there's not a potential use of the building except that the recreation department would like the option of using the gym. And so the order for finance was substantially revised uh reduced by over $80,000 and the capital budget was revised from 100 down to 50 with a maybe we'll need to do some things. We're not quite sure what the 50 was in the way it was written up. So, what I'd like to do is we sent a series of questions in to Shan in advance and maybe Sean, the best way to do it is for you to address some of them. Those were not shared with all finance committee members and none of the counselors have seen them >> if that works for you. >> Yeah. Do you want me to just read the question and then the response? Is that okay? and I've brought uh Jeremiah along with me to answer the more technical questions that I have no clue about. So, we will get started. Um the first question was, is there an additional cost to house the recck department at the bang center? And uh there will be some additional cost to move the recck department to the bang center. Um we would categorize it as sort of minimal, but there will be labor and time to plan out the space, move the recck department over there. There are some desks already set up in the space where the recck department will be going. So, we don't have to move all of the furniture, but there will be some furniture that we'll have to move. Um, but overall, I would say it's it's not a huge cost and we wouldn't be seeking additional funds for that move. Um, there are also some benefits as as I'm sure everyone can imagine from moving the rec department there. They're going to be located uh near the senior center, near uh public health, near Crest, um near DEI. So they're going to kind of be with a lot of our other community service organizations. So we anticipate while there will be some costs for moving them over there, there will also be some efficiencies having them located next to many of the departments that they work with on a daily basis. And I'll just keep moving through the questions, but if anybody wants to dive deeper, just shout out, raise your hand. >> Sean, just a quick question. Is that a permanent move or is that something that is temporary for six to 12 months? Yeah. So this this will be a permanent move. That was one of the calculations um that we thought about when you know REC came to us and said Wildwood is not working. Um we kind of said what would be the what would get your staff a permanent high-quality office space for the next 5 to 10 years at least. Um and Bang Center offers that. The second floor has been recently renovated. Um it's organized into offices with some open space where you can have multiple desks desks working together. Um and as most know there's a a large um renovation going on to the building to make it more accessible and brought up to code. Um so that building is going to be in really nice shape. Um and this move will be uh more or less permanent. Okay. Uh the next question is the memo indicates that shutting down Wildwood would be expensive and that it would be expensive to return it to a non-mothball state. So basically basically if we were to shut the building down uh what will that cost? Um and if we do shut it down, is it possible to get it restarted? And what would that cost to get it restarted? And for that question, I'm going to turn it over over to Jeremiah to uh talk a little bit about what that would look like. Hello. Yeah, I think I think the big thing would be is so how long would it be offline and and uh before it gets brought back online? And the reason for that is is there's a number of different ways that we can uh take care of each of the different systems. The building itself is a lot easier to uh take offline uh put it put it in sort of that dry layup um or layaway state and not have to really do much. The HVAC system though, you're going to get a much shorter timeline from all of that. uh and to take that offline and to bring it back on really decisions would would sort of have to be made. So the building itself, it's easy. We can shut down electricity. We can reduce heat. Um if we wanted to choose to uh eliminate heat, you know, those are those are all steps and big decisions we'd have to make. Um you have to think about air quality of the building, any types of moisture, uh the roof. So all of those those different systems are going to severely impact uh how that building is taken offline and how long it will survive in that state before it's it's looked at as being um either there's we're at the no turning back uh stage of it or or that we can turn it back on. Um, so I guess kind of going going through some of the different systems, you know, heat, electricity is some of the big ones that we look at. Can we reduce the electricity? Can we reduce the heat? Absolutely. So, what happens when we reduce those the heat? Uh, well, it could affect our life safety systems. Our life safety systems have to be maintained on a vacant building. So, even if there's no one in there, we need to make it safe. It's it's a code requirement to ensure that if anyone were to ever get in there, um they would be protected. Our first responders, our public safety would be protected and there would be some type of uh notification systems out there. So, there's always these thresholds that we we can bring it to. 68° and above. We can have people in there and they can occupy the space or we could use it for storage and people are going in it. Below that, but above say 40°, we we could have not necessarily occupy the space, but we still have enough systems going um and we don't have to make any drastic changes. If we go as far as saying we're not going to heat the building, we, you know, we think about it. We need to protect all of that the the piping in there we from freezing. We also have to consider what we're doing for the HVAC system. Are we It's a It's a very large school. Are we uh are we filling the the piping system with like a a a nitrogen gas so so that the the pipes don't rust from the insides out because they're now have moisture in them. They're sitting. Um so there's just a lot of decisions that would have to be made. It's it's really boils down to uh what do we want to use the building for if at all and how long do we expect it to be offline? And I think that that will determine how much we have to do. And each one of those is it's I I I think there's going to be a time where we're we're saying we're either putting this money up front to take this building offline or we're using a similar amount of money, but we're keeping it operational. It's going to be an operational expense over a period of time. >> Thank you, Jeremy. And there's a related question. Sean, you're taking them in order, but the other one was is that if we take it offline, given the age and antiquity of the systems, is it even possible to start it up again? And I think you're you're saying it depends on how severely that's the one. Uh it would it be poss and the question is with the so everyone understands that the building's not going to be occupied. It is going to be used for storage for the recreation department and potentially use of the gym. So the the question is what is what if we weren't to do either of those? Um would we be saving it? we're we're in at the a budget of, you know, almost $200,000 to keep it open at this level. So, I think you've answered that it depends on the length of time even on whether you could start it up again. Is that correct? >> Yes. And I and I I guess to really simplify it, I would I would say the building itself after three years, I would be concerned. The heating the heating and ventilation system after one year, I would be concerned. So, so ultimately the answer is you kind of have a year to make make a decision. If not, it's going to cost large amounts of of money to restore the system. >> Sean, I think we can keep going or I see has his hand up and Jeffrey Robert has his hand up on this. Sam, >> uh, thank you Kathy. If you wanted to go through all the questions first, I'd be glad to lower my hand. Uh if you want to take questions in sequence related to the question that was discussed, I >> maybe that makes sense. Sean, let's just run through the questions and then if that's okay with you, Jeffrey, then we'll come back and and ask for more because otherwise we'll take too much time. >> That make sense? >> Yep. I'll run through them a little quicker, too. Um so the next question was DPW design decision. When will the decision be made regarding phase construction? If made by year end, could Wildwood be decommissioned at that point, not knowing or or knowing that it's not needed for swing space? So, that question is related to um there's several reasons why the recommendation was made to keep Wildwood in a usable state. One of those reasons was as an emergency use for for the DPW um while we await the construction of a new building. And so the timeline for that project right now is that the Wesson and Samson is expected to have a schematic design cost estimates around December of 2026. And so a decision at we'll know at that point whether phase construction is even possible. Right now the designers have showed us you know like a a very very high level drawing of it might be possible and we've asked them to to look into that more. So I by December of this year, we'll know if phase construction is something they're recommending is possible. Um and then a decision could be made at that point. Uh if we felt like that influenced whether or not to keep Wildwood open. The next question is uh the revised costs total $193,000 including capital. This is a high cost for maintaining a building for the use of the gym and storage. um does it make sense to to keep this building open with those high costs um just for storage space and and recreation supplies um and the gym? And so there were a few reasons outlined in the memo why the uh option to keep the building in a usable state was recommended. There's we're sort of at a point where there's two pathways, right? There's this path to keep it in a usable state and there's a pathway where it could be completely shut down. Um the recommendation is to keep it open and one is for the storage and for the gym of the recreation department. Um that's not the only reason but that is a reason given uh you know not a complete surprise but a somewhat short timeline for vacating the middle school and moving all their stuff. Right. So that they're a small department seven people but they have a lot of stuff and so to move them quickly and find a new home um took a lot of planning by multiple folks and and there were not many options to consider. So that that's one reason. Uh the second reason I already mentioned was the public works department u and their headquarters and having that wildwood space even though it may not be desirable having that space as a fallback option um should something unforeseen happen at the public works building or if we just find out that phase construction is not a possibility. Um again we haven't gone through schematic design um let alone you know more detailed analysis of the site. Um so right now it's just an idea on paper. Um, so that's the second reason. Um, and then the third reason is there is a working group that's going to be put together. I talked to the town manager. The plan is for them to start shortly after Labor Day. And the focus of that working group is to explore the future of the Wildwood site in the facility. Um, and we didn't want to do anything to the building that would limit the options to the town and to this working group. Uh we felt like if we were to decommission the building, shut it down and and based on you know some of the information we got from Jeremiah and Rob Mora about how quickly the building could go south uh we felt like not maintaining the building in this usable state would sort of limit the options to that committee um and ultimately to the town. So we thought this maintained flexibility. Again the proposal is only to maintain the building for the rest of the fiscal year and then you know re-evaluate in the spring about any you know what to do beyond that. Um, so that's those are the reasons why this uh uh appropriation order was recommended. If the town anticipates demolishing Wildwood in the future or redeveloping the property, where would the recck department conduct programming once the Wildwood gym is no longer available? Um, so the recck department and Ray's here, so if there's more detailed questions, he can hop on, but the rec department is used to being very flexible and redesigning their programming based on the spaces that are available to them. They've dealt with several curve balls over the last few years. Um, you know, talking with Ry, uh, you know, the late start move of the high school limited how much time they had in in the facilities there. Um, there's been changes at the middle school, which has limited, uh, their their time and access. So, they're used to looking at the resources they have available and building programming. If Wildwood gym was not available, they wouldn't be able to, you know, they wouldn't have a gym that they could program during the day that doesn't have kids in the building. Um they are going to be working on getting access to Amethyst Brook, which again would be after hours. They're always in talks with the high school and the middle school about accessing those spaces. Um but their options will be more limited if Wildwood is um eventually demolished. And what is the anticipated use of the Wildwood gym daily by the recck department? Um during the day, nights or weekends? What types of activities could it be used for senior center activities? um and what has wreck done in the past. So I think the answer during days, nights or weekends, it's all of the above. Uh it would rec department would have much more flexibility to program that site during the day, which they don't typically have with school gyms. Um so Ray's initial plan is that it would uh support basketball, youth basketball, two different programs, ABL and the fifth and sixth grade suburban basketball league. Um both of those programs have been in Wildwood in the past. So, going to the the last piece of that question, they've been at Wildwood and at Fort River at different points in time. Um, pickle ball would be an option. That's one of the ones that has currently used um the middle school, the small gym at the middle school, and I think it's a small piece of time on the weekends. That would be an option for during the week programming. Uh, and so that could definitely be an area for opportunity and expansion uh if they had the Wildwood gym available all day. Um, and then adult sandlot basketball. So, um, basically drop in basketball pickup games is something that it could be used for. So, those are a few areas that they've identified already they would use it for. There would likely be more um that they would consider if they had that that gym to themselves. How much storage space is required by the rec department and for how long um would Wildwood service? So, right now Wreck is using about one and a half quads. So, these are really big classrooms. Um, some of that is taken up by the all the furniture that they had to remove from the middle school. So, some of that might not go with them. Um, but they have a lot of storage because they have all these different programs. Um, and different times of the year, you pull out different stuff to support those programs, whether it's summer camp um um the the athletic programs that they have. Uh, they have different needs and their um storage is a little bit different than like the storage finance would have. So for us, we use the North Ammer school. We can put things in boxes, put it in a certain area, and we never have to worry about it unless there's a request or an audit or something like that that we need to go find stuff. Um, wreck needs access to its storage all throughout the year. Uh, you know, it's it's it's not like you might think of storage where you never see it again. They need to be able to get to it. They need space to pull things out and program and plan. Um, so it's not just they need um, you know, shelves that they can stuff uh, stuff things on there. They need space where they can pull it out, open it up, and plan what they're going to do for all the different programs they provide. Um, so Wildwood could serve as storage. You know, we would plan for, you know, just the rest of the fiscal year, honestly. And during this year, u we've already been talking with Jeremiah and Ram Moore about evaluating other facilities in town to potentially serve as long-term storage because if we don't have the Wildwood site, which might be a a real possibility, we are going to need a place uh for Rex storage to go. Um right now we use the North Ammer school for some of the traditional storage. It takes up the basement level of that building. Um this the floor above it is now vacant. That's where some of the Head Start programs used to be. One reason we haven't just thrown things in there is we're uh there was interest, potentially interest for youth programs to stay in that building. It was designed uh for an early child care center. Um when Hampshire College's early childhood center closed, they were had at least some really initial discussions about possibly coming over to that space. Um and we know that that continues to be a need um in the community. So once we, you know, if there's a decision to turn that floor into storage, it's likely not going to ever go back to being uh, you know, a home for for youth programs, but we would evaluate that during the year and that might ultimately be the decision because there's not a lot of other areas in town um for storage right now. And that sort of rolls into the next question, which is why not use the North AMRE school for storage? Um, already being used for that purpose. So I think I sort of addressed that. There was another question about why not use the closed maker space at the middle school. Um that was one of the spaces that Wreck was using and they've been asked to leave that space. So Wreck was using that whole old wood shop area for storage and they've had to pull everything out of there and move it to Wildwood. Um so that's no longer an option. And what is the plan after one year for storage at Wildwood? Again, we're going to evaluate facilities in town. And, you know, it may also mean looking at external sources if we have to rent a facility or if we have to look at sheds um or um uh you know, small rental uh facilities that could house some of their storage. One of the things talking to Ray that's really important about their storage and it's why the middle school was such an ideal location and Wildwood's okay and Northammer school is not so great is that they really like their storage near the programs that they're going to have. um so that if they forget something, if they need something extra, they don't have to drive all across town to get what they need. That's one of the problems with North Hammer schools. It's not really located near any of their programs. The middle school was perfect because not, you know, most of their programs are in that little area. Um so that's that's going to be a reality we're going to have to deal with and they'll have to adjust into their operations uh to some extent no matter what. But um we are when we think about storage for them, we try to find storage that's close to where their programs are going to be. And I think those are the questions, Kathy, unless you think I missed one. >> Yeah, I I think um you did. So I am So Sam and Jeffrey both had their hands up and now I see Jill as as well. So, I'm going to take Sam, Jeffrey, and then Jill. Um, having heard um and and just so people know, Sam and Jill didn't have a chance to see these questions. Jeffrey submitted some of them, but not all of them. So, I I didn't share them before tonight. Sam, >> uh, thank you, Kathy, and thank you, Sean and Jeremiah. as I listen. Uh we discussed some of this previously in finance and the concern was shutting down and damage to the building. Um you know my concern related to damage related to uh air quality andor mold. Um what I heard today uh Jeremiah you indicated it could potentially be shut down for maximum maximum of one year uh after which we're risking uh conditions. Uh I see the decision as a trade-off between what's it actually cost to shut it down and turn it back on versus the risk. And I understand the desire to have flexibility uh for all the reasons that Sean mentioned, but um do I see the costs in the table in the report at 171 uh which would be a somewhat functioning building for uh you know reduced use use without the the recck department. What's it actually cost to shut it down uh and turn it on again? Uh with the minimum level of uh utilities perhaps 40°. Uh if we don't have that number, that's fine. I'm just trying to get a handle on the tradeoff of shut it down cost, shut it back on versus a time frame of a year. Uh aside from the potential uses that Sean referenced. Thank you. Yeah, thank you Sam. I I I don't have that figure and that is something that uh uh Sean and I have have started and and Rob uh Mora we we've all started to to really look at and and say okay so if this is the direction that we're going to go and we are we are shutting it down what what is the cost um and and what changes to the building have to be made um so that that is something that that I have been looking at or you know really thinking about over the weekend and you know was kind of digging into some more today. I don't I don't have that that figure for you now. Um uh it would it would take some time. Um, and again, I think it all depends on, you know, what what do we what do we consider kind of shutting it down to and um um so so the closer we sort of approach the the red X on the building um with all of these mothballing, you know, we we get to that that that point of of sort of no return. So, um, yeah, I it's just something I would have to kind of spend a little bit more time on. I, you know, unfortunately, I don't have it right now. >> No, I understand. And I'm not necessarily advocating for shutting down with Red X. I'm just trying to get the parameters. Um, would it be fair to say that it's uh, you know, hip shot? It'd be more than 10 grand to shut it down and absolutely and it could be up to 50 grand potentially. I would put a a larger number on it than that. >> Okay, that's that's worth uh to >> to Jeremiah's point, it really matters. Are we shutting it down with the anticipation of starting it back up or are we shutting it down with the anticipation of demolishing the building? If if we're shutting it down to demolish it, I mean, we're we're removing oil tanks. We're disconnecting, you know, we're hiring plumbers and whoever to disconnect lines. Um, as Jeremiah said, the safety system, I mean, there's if we're shut it down cuz again, we're not going to we or if we're shut down because we think we might start it back up, then it might be a different cost than if it's the latter. So, um, I think Rob and Jeremiah can come, you know, if if if the council needs more information on that, they could, um, come back with more. >> No, that's quite helpful, both your responses to my question because it indicates the, uh, reasoning behind the desire for flexibility prior to decision point. Thank you. I'm going to take Jeffrey, then Jill, then Lyn, councelor Bevick. Jeffrey, uh, >> so I just had a follow-up question on the same vein of conversation. Uh, Sean and Jeremiah, it was about um whether or not you'd use town employees to do the mothballing shutting down process, if that's even possible, if they have the requisite skills for such, or if there's a third-party vendor that you have to go out and contract with, go through procurement process to do that. Is this something that we inhouse could actually do? >> Um, Jeremiah, you can speak. I mean, we have an we have an electrician. Uh, I don't know, you know, their experience with taking, you know, taking a school offline. We have we don't have a plumber. Um, we don't have necessarily an HVAC specialist for a building like um like Wildwood. We definitely don't have anyone who would from like an environmental standpoint I don't believe be able to take out like an oil tank out of the ground. That's usually has to be procured and contracted out. Um the middle we've done several of those in the last several years whether it be Fort River or middle or the middle school. We've had a um contract out removing oil tanks. So I I think we would look there's not a the town facility department is not huge. I think we I mean Jeremiah will say it's small. Um, I think we'd look at public works to see if they have some of the skills maybe, but I don't think we would be able to do a lot there either. >> Yeah, I I I think I think we would have to even go beyond that like like Sean was saying and procure some of that out. >> So, from the sound of it, especially when you're talking oil tanks, I mean, you've you've got a comma or two in that conversation in and of itself. So, if it were the 40 plus degrees or even getting to the 64 degrees where your moisture problems are a little bit less uh of an issue, some of that might be able to be done in house, but then everything that we're doing to say like actually shutting the building down permanently is going to go through a a significantly larger not only cost but procurement process if that's the correct understanding that I have. >> Yes. Thank you, >> Council Breick. >> Yeah, thank you. And yeah, thanks to Sean and Jeremiah. Um, I appreciate all of this information. I had just a quick numbers question um on the uh on page four of the revised request um that like breaks out the cost centers. I just am wondering there on the lines for the building maintenance assistant which went from 47,000 down to 23,000 and then benefits went from 30,000 to 22,000. I'm I'm curious about where we landed with 23,000 in salary and 22,000 in benefits as usually you would see benefits being a percentage of the salary. If you could just maybe explain Yeah. the map there. That would be helpful. I'm sure there's a reason, but I'm just wondering what it is. >> Yeah. No, Kathy Kathy got me on that right away as soon as she saw that. Um, uh, so the the building maintenance assistant reduction, so that's just a straight halftime individual. So, they would be 20 hours a week. So, it's a direct 50% reduction. Um, with health insurance, they either have it or they don't. Um, it's not something that gets prrated the same way. So, for that, the cost could have stayed the same. Um, but we made a decision to when we did the first estimate, we ma based it on uh a full uh family PO plan, which is our most expensive plan as a precaution. Um, when we reduced it down to a 50%, we dropped it to the the lower cost family plan. Um, so it's still based on a full family plan, just the lower cost option, but it's it's not a prrated health insurance, it's the full health insurance. The way of thinking about it is once you're a genuinely halfbound person, you get a full-time health insurance plan. You don't get half of one in and >> 20 hours is the >> and the two different numbers that Sean had put in. One was the most expensive option and this one is more the HMO option. You don't know, >> okay, >> who the person will be and you don't want to know which plan they'll choose. So, >> and so and it's so this is not a split >> one one full-time position split doing some of this work and doing other work >> not as a purely part-time >> right >> envisioned as a purely parttime okay thank you >> Lynn >> yes I want to um have you clarify I think Jeremiah you mentioned that when we vacate a building we still have to do certain things to make sure that this building is still safe? And does Could you just explain if we were going to mothball this building and it was going to just sit there empty, that's considered vacated, what would we have to make sure would still make it safe? >> Yeah. So, a building that's that's mothballled um there there still is um NFPA. So, National Fire Protection uh Association code requirements that that state that all life safety measures uh have to be maintained. So, your your fire alarm system, if your fire alarm system is is there and in working order, well, you need to have it monitored. If you do have a sprinkler system, the sprinkler system has to work. Um all your fire extinguishers have to have to work. And and again, it's it's uh it's in these emergency situations where either someone is in there or someone has to go into the building. Um you know, if you if we think about it, an individual can get into a vacant building. However they get there in there, we don't know. But we also want to make sure that they can get out of that building. So, if there was any any issue, um really you you want to make sure that that doors can that operate properly. So, if they're exiting a building, if they need to get out in a rush, they're not going to hit that door and it it just be bound up because of snow and ice or just the fact that the door uh is is starting to corrode and won't open. So, all of these these different items need to be uh maintained. Um, security is just another another aspect of all of that, you know. So, we want to we want to make sure and it's for us, I mean, it is no matter what if we're mothballing it or not, it is an asset for the town. So, uh, we want to make sure that it's a it's it the building is secure. Um the the alternative is we moth say it's mothballled but then we we put the signs on it with the big red X. The big red X means we don't have to do anything anymore. No one is going in there. If there is an issue, you don't enter the building. if the building. So, so if you're not if you're not at that point, if you're not if you haven't decided to put that that on the building that says this is no longer safe for people to go inside, you really do have these minimums that need to be maintained uh for the building. So, it that's just kind of like a a quick rundown of of some of the some of the items. Um but again with each degree there's additional costs. >> So if we um vote to um go with the recommendation and a year from now or 10 months from now we're actually looking at saying you know it's time to put an X on this building. There's still going to be some costs associated with that. >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yes. So, I'm going to just ask a follow-up question to Lind. If I look at the budget, and everyone in the revised um proposal shows you the budget, if we weren't going to be using it, but we're doing everything you're protecting, then is it correct the building maintenance assistant 44 almost $50,000 disappears? You know, there's some things that you would not have to pay for. And Jeremy, you said you could move the heat down to 40 or 50 degrees, you know, whatever, wherever. But so we could be looking at a substantially lower cost if we decided we weren't going to be regularly using the building. And I and the reason I'm asking some of this is that we've known for four or five years that we were going to have Wildwood be vacant. We we didn't know the exact date the school would, but it's never been in our budget. It was not in the town municipal budget as a cost that we were going to have to keep doing something. And so I'm also wondering about the 50,000 in capital. Would we put any capital in or is this just a holding in case something goes wrong? And following up on Lind, what do we do after 10 months? or if DPW decision is made and they can do phasing, could we make a decision in February, you know, halfway through the year to turn it down to this minimal, you know, keep the fire alarm working, but really lower the cost instead of being a couple hundred,000 and I'm adding I'm adding the 50,000 to the operating, can we get it way down, you know, to 50,000 because we're not paying for a custodian and and paying the benefits. So, so it's a question about what is the carrying cost of this building if we decide that we are not going to be using it. So, if we want to do it for at least a half a year, um I think that's clear the way I stated it. >> Uh can I quickly respond Kathy and to that? Is that a question to ask? Can I ask answer that? >> Okay. Um so the capital request is only intended for absolutely needed expenditures. That's not um that would be for anything that is legally or from a safety perspective required. And if it's not spent, it could go towards decommissioning the building in the future or you know demolishing the building in the future. Um so that there's not like a project in mind with that money right now. which really meant like we have the money for other buildings in town that if something um unanticipated, unforeseen pops up and we need emergency funds, uh we would use it. Um and you know, coincidentally, I heard from the schools that the repairs they made to the HVAC system there on the roof, there were some additional issues with that and so they're not quite sure what the condition is of that. So there could be, you know, depending on what we do with that building, there could be some of those capital expenses, but um there's no big project plan for that money. it's there as a precaution. Um and then you know Jeremiah I'm sure will reinforce this. The facility staff are extremely stretched in town. They manage they've only added um buildings in recent years to their control. Um and we haven't added any staff and this would be a big facility to add even if you're going to keep it in that sort of low 40 degree level. If if there's an expectation for the facility department to go to the building once a week and check it out and flush systems so that things don't back up, like that's a really big workload anyways. And then if we're expecting the facility department to um kind of just fit that into their workload, which there's nobody assigned, there's already multiple staff who cover multiple buildings. There's nobody that um has unless Jeremiah tells me otherwise that there's flexibility for someone to just pick up uh Wildwood. So I I think that's the challenge. We we if if the town doesn't want to keep the building in in an operable condition for the next the rest of this fiscal year. I think we would need really clear direction. What is that condition that the council wants us to keep it in and then we would we would bring back um potentially an additional appropriation request, a different appropriation request. Um we would let you know what it would take in order to do that. >> And I'm sorry, Kathleen, I didn't see your hand. And Jill, is your hand up again? Um I'm just so I see Kathleen's hand and then Jill. >> Yeah, thank you Kathy. My question is just about the Wildwood working group and you said it would uh was supposed to start after Labor Day. Does it have a timeline or anticipated timeline by which we might have some more information about the future of that site? >> I maybe Yeah, sounds like Dave has some info on that. if I could. Um um yeah, not a lot of information on that, but you know, certainly Sean and I have have spoken at some length with Paul about kicking that off. Sean indicated certainly Jeff Bag as our new planning and economic development director would be, you know, integral to that process and and likely part of the staff's support for that uh committee. um as soon as Paul is back from uh his time away, I'm sure we will get focused on that and and he will start talking about appointments. But it's um you know, now that DPW is kicked off and some other appointments have been made, I think that's next on Paul's list. Um and if I could just um put in a plug, I've spent almost two hours with Rex staff today walking Wildwood. I've spent a lot of time with Sean, with Jeremiah, with um with Rob Moira at the building, with with Ray Harp and his staff. Um and I think the plan that the town manager and Sean and others have have put forth is really the compromise to give us time to do further assessment of the building to figure out. Certainly, you know, I look at as three buckets really the personnel and staffing uh issue. And I think, you know, um this that was kind of a wild card precipitated by the schools um um asking us to vacate and and have wreck move out. That was not in the plan and it was just thrust upon us. So, uh we got them over to Wildwood and realized that is not the best location for them. And I think we've pivoted to um to uh to Bangs and I think it's going to be a great collaborative environment for them to be in there. But it still leaves us with significant questions about storage and the gymnasium. Uh as Sean indicated, um you know, there'll really be the loss for wreck of two gyms. One is Fort River and this one could follow fairly soon thereafter. And I think the use of the Amethyst Brook uh gymnasium is still in question. We don't have anou with the schools to use that. But storage is is an important component here. Um, as Sean indicated, we're talking about uh equipment uh um materials for Halloween, Fourth of July, camps. It is a lot of material that doesn't fit into neat nooks and crannies or shelving. So, it gives us a little time to figure that out, figure out whether we need the building. The DPW question will be will be answered by December. Um, in my estimation of the situation, we can't really have the building at 40 degrees. You're going to get mold, mildew. We would have to move Rex stuff out of there if we're actually going to keep that building at at such a low temperature. That would have to be a decision we'd have to make this fall and get that material out of there. So, just wanted to add some some of those elements that I've um talked about with staff as we've gone through this process. Councelor Berick. >> Yeah, just a quick followup. Um because and yeah, this will be such this is such important information and will be something that will, you know, be really relevant in the coming year. Um I'm wondering and uh Dave, you said you you you know, really have been working with the staff and and trying to hear their you know, their thoughts and input and the input of you know, people who were working in the building. Um is there anything else that would be relevant for us to know about? So like we heard about heat and humidity and you know there was mention of air quality. Were there any other concerns or any other really you know significant pieces of feedback that we got from the rec staff during their time there? Well, again, if I could, Kathy, um, >> sure, Dave, go ahead. And ju let's just keep it short because there's also a larger report, Jill, on the conditions of this building, which is um, one of the reasons uh, we were planning on taking it offline, but go ahead, Dave. Again, I to be brief, I think, you know, this we had to move in a hurry and and kudos to Jeremiah and Rob and and Ray's staff for for getting it all together and moving everything over and it etc. So, when we got there, yeah, the building, it's it's a tired old building. That's, you know, I think everyone knows that's why we're building a brand new building, uh, you know, the Amethyst School and it shows and it feels it over there. um moisture and and uh um is is difficult to control in a building like that. So, some spaces are highly conditioned and others as you get farther out on the branches of the tree um really don't receive a lot. So, I think as we start shutting systems down, if we shut them down or if we turn the heat down, I think, you know, Jeremiah and Rob has have indicated to me that things will just start to fail. whether it's more moisture coming through the roof which we know needs work um or not controlling um you know through HVAC anything in the building. So it's just a matter of time. So I think we're asking for the time to keep the storage possibly keep the gymnasium going as an income source for wreck which they've enjoyed for for a long time using that gym. And then maybe after the first of the year we through working with the town manager and through you uh further decisions will be made. >> Are there any other questions of the committee? >> I'm ready to make the motions. >> Okay. >> Um and I make these with the condition that we will be hearing about this on a monthly basis through the town manager report. Um, the first motion, there are two motions and I just want to make sure I get them correct. um that the finance committee recommend to the town council that they adopt appropriation and transfer order FY27-04C an order for a supplemental appropriation to the town of Ammerst general funding fund operating budget for available school expenses excess capital funding for the operation and maintenance of the Wildwood school for fiscal year 2027. Seven. Seek a second. >> Second. >> Um I'll take any discussion of that. Um and the the one question I would have um is uh this notion of if by mid year meaning January, February, we decide we are not going to be doing this for multiple years, can we come back and revisit this? So, can we vote this now and have Sean be and staff be reporting the actual operating cost of the building and revisit it in tell me the time, you know, January or February. Um, so without amending that if I I would like to have the record show that that be a consideration. >> That was my my notion of having it in the town manager report so that the record shows that we want to keep track of this on case we want to shorten the time. Okay, then I second the mo the motion's been seconded. Are we ready to vote? Is there any other comment? Okay, I will call the finance committee members as I see them on my screen because I don't have a list. Lynn >> I >> Kathy is a yes. Uh Sam >> I >> Kathleen >> support. Councelor Breick >> yes. Hoor Deon Gier >> I >> and Jeffrey Robert >> support. >> Okay. Second one. I move that we recommend to the town council the adoption of appropriation transfer order FY27-05B and order for a supplemental appropriation to the town of Ammeris capital program project program for available school excess capital funding for FY27 Wildwood school facility improvements. Just so people know, this is at the $50,000 level. That's the revision. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Is there any discussion of this? Then we'll put it to a vote. Lynn, >> I >> Kathy is a yes. Sam McCloud, >> I. >> Kathleen Mitchell, >> support. >> Councelor Brebeck, >> yes. >> Honor Delin Gothier, hi. and Jeffrey Robert >> support. >> That concludes our discussion of these two financial orders. We already met in July and recommended unanimously the other two financial orders. So, we don't need to have any discussion of that. So, we can adjourn the special meeting of the finance committee and turn it back to the council. I move to adjurnn. >> Um I second that and I think we need to put it a vote. So Kathy is a yes. Sam >> I >> Lynn >> I >> Kathleen >> yes. >> Councelor Breick >> yes. >> Anna Devil Gothier. >> Hi. >> And Jeffrey Robert. >> Yes. >> And I want to thank um Sean and Jeremiah and also Dave for coming here. Um and we have a record of answers to this. So I think the other thing we'll do in finance is to regularly monitor what's going on here. So make sure we get a report back and thanks for the patience of the council for giving us what turned out to be a full meeting in the middle of the council meeting. We are adjourned. >> Thank you. We will move right into the regular meeting of the town council. Again, I thank the counselors and the public for being patient with that. That allowed us to get to these orders tonight as a council. Um, so it is 7:32 and seeing a presence of a quorum, I am calling the August 17th regular meeting of the town council to order. Um, again, this meeting is being held in person and remote access option is provided as a courtesy only. Um, I won't go through all of that. We did it an hour ago, but I will because we were um adjourned and not in council meeting for so long, I will make sure all of the counselors are still here. Um, so I'm just going to do roll call on that. Councelor Bravik, >> yes. >> Councelor Keno Martin is absent. Councelor uh Andy Churchill is absent. Anna Developier, >> hi. >> Lyn Greimer, >> present. >> Mandy Joe Hanicki is present. Councelor Lord. Sam Mloud >> present. >> Pam Rooney >> here. >> Councelor Ryan >> still here. >> Kathy Shane, >> I'm here. >> Jennifer Tob >> here. >> And councelor Walker is absent. Um, with that we will move right into the meeting. Um, announcements look a little bit different. Uh, the town has changed its agenda center for boards and committees. So, we have links to the calendars on that for everyone to look for the board and committee meeting information. Um, there are no hearings tonight. So, we will move to general public comment. Anyone wishing to make general public comment who is attending remotely, please raise your hand in the Zoom application. If you're present in the town room and have not signed up, please do so now. Residents are welcome to make public comments on matters within the jurisdiction of the town council. The council will not engage in a dialogue or comment um on a matter raised during general public comment. Public comments are not reflective of the opinions of the town council. The force first amendment broadly protects individuals rights to address the government to speak and to express themselves including their right to say hateful and offensive things. I'm generally unable to shut those commenters down under the first amendment of the US Constitution unless their level of speech falls within an exception articulated by the courts such as fighting words, true threats to a particular individual, harassment of a particular individual, or incitement of imminent lawless activity. If a question exists as to whether a particular speaker is engaged in engaging in unprotected speech, I must defer to the principle of freedom of speech. There are no hands raised on Zoom of people who wish to make a public comment. Um Sean, how many people in the town room have signed up? We've two um everyone will have three minutes to make their comment. Um Sean, who's the first person who signed up? Vince, please come on up. State your name and where you live and make your comment. Vento Conor 175 Summer Street um apartment 12. And uh first comment is uh after the last discussion and information I think that those who thought that um squeezing the elementary schools into just two buildings or two and a half or whatever was going to be all gravy. Um welcome to the real world. Um, my comment regards the manager and police chief's proposal to use sworn police officers to observe ICE and Border Patrol activity in the town of Ammerst. That proposal is a dangerous mistake. Um, first that there is black letter law that um that convicted a number of police officers in Minneapolis who stood by and watched the murder of Mr. Floyd. Um, that requires police officers to intervene when criminal acts, felonies at least, are committed in their presence. Um, and their failure to do so will be used by the defense, by those who defend ICE and Border Patrol people for any criminal acts they commit in the presence of the Amoris police absolutely foolhardy to send the police there. They will become essentially their inaction will become witnesses for the mis the ICE and border patrol people who commit criminal acts. Their inaction will will will essentially testify to a jury that nothing criminal happened. utter foolishness on behalf of the manager and the police chief to put their police officers in that position to be silent witnesses for the defense of people who commit indefensible acts. I mean, if you want to look at Minneapolis, the best observer was a 17-year-old black girl with a cell phone camera. We this is not an appropriate uh thing to an observer for the town. At least her her observations were made public. What the police will see will have to be extracted from the police department by a litigation. The best option is to send a well organized, disciplined crest team there. They don't have the power to arrest. Their failure to intervene will not be testimony on behalf of the of any ICE operatives who engage in misconduct. >> Please wrap up. Um finally with regard to the police officers themselves to send them there and to have them in the presence >> your time is up to wrap up. Um, in fact, we'll subject them as it as the police officers in Minneapolis found out to stop. Your time was up 37 seconds ago for failure to act. >> Thank you, Vince, for your comments. Sean, Evan, please come come on up, state your name and where you live, and make your comments. >> Righty. Good evening, counselors. Uh my name my name is Ever to the mic. >> Yes, thank you. Uh my name is Evan A. Smith. I live in district 5. Um last month I shared some statistics with you, not the ones that are in front of you now, but um you remember them. They were about how many UMass students live off campus. UMass presented these figures to the Amoris Planning Board on October 25th, 2023. The planning board members accepted the data as accurate and the census numbers confirm them. The data show that UMass's recent enrollment growth is overwhelmingly online only students who don't live locally. After accounting for UMass's 4,000 new beds, the net addition to the off-campus population is about five students per year. Five. The distribution could shift somewhat. A few hundred students may have moved from Hadley to Ammerst or the other way around, but the claim that thousands of new students are straining our housing supply is verifiably false. Councelor Tob has questioned my qualifications for the planning board because I said that UMass's off-campus numbers were essentially flat. But she attended, literally attended that 2023 October meeting and the recording is public. So I'd invite all of you to watch it and judge the numbers for yourselves. But enough with the data for now. I want to offer my opinion on why these numbers matter so much and why they've been met with so much resistance. The housing data is critical because it undermines the myth of the student invasion. In that story, Ammerst's homeowners are the victims and the oppressors are lowincome student renters who depopulate our schools and chase away aging and place seniors. That myth gives us, the homeowners, a permission structure to fight back using zoning as both a sword and a shield. It gives us the moral basis to confine students to arterial roads, to impose moratoria so that they don't take over our downtown. That was articles 18 and 19. and to dictate how many unrelated individuals may reside together before triggering eviction. The student invasion myth let us ignore lets us ignore Mindy Dom's plea to go big and when rents inevitably skyrocket, we simply blame the next chancellor. Everyone loves playing the victim, but the data contradicts this story at every turn. The housing production plan shows that our under25 population is shrinking. The Chief of Police reports that noise complaints have dropped 50% in the last decade. And here's the uncomfortable part. Without the myth, we have no principal basis for excluding students from our white picket fence neighborhoods or dictating with whom they may live. Without the myth, those bylaws are just discrimination. The myth has also led us to endorse some curious economic policies like specifically requesting more taxexempt PPPs, the worst possible housing option for Ammerst future. The fact is off-campus students are major contributors to local businesses, real estate values, and tax revenues. And if you don't believe me, just ask your finance committee. They'll tell you how devastating it would be to lose a big chunk of our off-campus population. The bottom line is that the numbers don't lie. The student invasion myth is false and every policy it inspired deserves a close second look. We need to do better, especially for our student constituents. Thank you, counselors. >> Thank you, Evan, for your comments tonight. I see no other people seeking to make public comment, so I will close the public comment period and move us on to the consent agenda. Um, the following items were selected because they were considered to be routine and it was reasonable to accept that expect that they would pass with no controversy to remove an item from the consent agenda for discussion later in the meeting. Ask that it be removed when the president lists the consent items. The request to remove an item from consent does not require a second. So the motion at this point is to move the following items and the printed motions there and approve those items as a single unit. Item 8A1, approval of FY2704B, Pelum Treasurer Collector Services. Item 8A3, approval of FY2706A, PAS appropriation for monitoring and remediation. Waiver of town council rule of procedure for rule 8.6 for town manager appointments. Item 9A, approval of town manager appointments to the community development block grant committee. Um the waiver is required for one of those two appointments because one memo came after the TSO met. And item 11, approval of July 20, 2026 regular meeting and public forum minutes. Is there anyone that would like to remove any items from the agenda uh consent agenda? Seeing none, is there a second to the motion? >> Second. Second. Councelor Ryan gets that second. Um, any discussion? Seeing none, we will start with Anna Devongier. >> I, Lyn Greimemer, >> I. >> Mandy Joe Hanicki is an I. Councelor Lord. >> Sam Mloud. >> I. >> Pam Rooney. >> Yes. >> Councelor Ryan, >> I. >> Kathy Shane, >> yes. >> Jennifer Tob, >> yes. >> Uh, and councelor Brevik, >> yes. >> Uh, councelor Walker, Councelor Kennel Martin, and Andy Churchill are absent. That vote is unanimous 10 to zero. The consent agenda passes. Um okay that we have no resolutions and proclamations. We have no presentations and discussions. We move on to action items. Um we just appropriated under consent FY2704B item 8A1. Um so we will move on to FY27 item 8 A2 which has two motions in it. Um we will start with um FY2704C. The motion is having been referred to the finance committee on July 20, 2026, having held a public forum on August 17, 2026, and finance committee submitted a recommendation to the town council on August 17, 2026 to approve appropriation and transfer order FY2704C, an order for a supplemental appropriation to the town of Ammerst general fund operating budget from available s from available school access capital funding for the operation and maintenance of the Wildwood School for fiscal year 27 as shown on page 12 of the motion sheet. Is there a second? >> Second, Gremer. >> Okay, Lynn Greamer gets that. Is there any discussion on this one? Kathy, >> just have one. And it's really just a minor effort. I think the recommendation was for this particular order was tonight, not the date, not the July 20th date. And I'm gonna have the same comment on the capital one. >> Um the motion has that the recommendation was submitted on August 17th. >> The the order was referred on the 20 20th of July, but the recommendation >> The recommendation So the recommendation is on the 17th. Okay. >> That is what the motion does. >> Uh Council Ryan, >> so I was dying to ask this question during the finance committee meeting, but I got the feeling that I probably shouldn't. Um so I didn't. And I'm not sure this is the right moment for it, but and it may be more curiosity than anything else, but as we know, sometimes there's a game of musical chairs as we move our staff around and the space is limited, but I was a little surprised to hear that they're moving into the bang center on the second floor. And so my question, and maybe it's for a later time, is then who gets bumped or who was that supposed to be for but now is not for. So, um I just wondered if someone could enlighten me as to uh what impact the movement of wreck into banks has on all the other tenants in that building which are there a substantial number um veterans health department um crest um senior center. So, I'm just curious about the sort of uh impact of that change. >> Dave, >> thanks for the question. It's a great question. In fact, no one is getting bounced out of their space. Um, we had always considered the possibility that wreck could move into banks, but again, there's multiple projects going on all over town, and one of them is the some of the HVAC and other work going on in Bangs. So, at the time that we were asked to leave uh Arms, space wasn't available in Bangs because of the renovations that are going on there. But um as you may know, Crest move has moved down to the poll room as part of those renovations and we believe that is a very good uh place for them to be in the pole room with their own uh entrance and exit on the ground floor and um the director there is quite comfortable and happy with that space for her staff. So the space that we're moving rack into is on the second floor that was formerly occupied by crass. So DEI will be on one side. The health department will be moving up this fall. They'll be on the other side on the second floor. And we've already had conversations with Dan and Kiko and Pamela and other staff. And they're very excited to have Wreck as part of the, if you will, the community services uh group of departments there. So, uh, the space is vacant right now. It's, as Sean indicated earlier, uh, newly renovated, uh, in the past few years and for Crest and ready to, uh, to have a wreck move in. Uh, the desks are still there. Uh, they'll have a a reception area to greet the public. And I think that's one thing that wasn't emphasized enough earlier in the conversation. We want a place to welcome the public. when you're if you want to walk in and talk to somebody about a recreation program or swimming lessons or whatever it might be, Wildwood was always going to be a challenge, right? Because of the space in the curbs and and and how large it is. But they'll be utilizing the space formerly uh occupied by Crest and they'll have their own reception window and we think it'll work really nicely. >> Any further questions? Um, seeing no other hands on this motion, we will move to a vote. We start with Lynn >> I. >> Mandy Johannick is an I. Councelor Lord. >> Sam Mloud. >> I. >> Pam Rooney. >> Yes. >> Councelor Ryan. >> I. >> Kathy Shane. >> Yes. >> Jennifer Tob. >> Yes. And councelor Bravik. >> Yes. >> That is unanimous 10 to zero. >> Yes. >> Oh, sorry. Developier. >> Hi. >> Sorry about that. That is unanimous 10 to zero with three absent which are councelor Keno Martin, Andy Churchill and councelor Walker. We will move on to the next motion which is having been referred to the finance committee on July 20, 2026, having held a public forum on August 17, 2026 and finance committee submitting a recommendation to the town council on August 17, 2026 to approve appropriation and transfer order FY2705B, an order for a supplemental appropriation to the town of Ammeris capital project from available school access capital funding for FY27 Wildwood Elementary School Facility. improvements as shown on page 13 of the motion sheet. Is there a second? >> Second, Rooney. >> Thank you. No. Thank you, Pam. Are there any questions or comments, discussion on this motion? Seeing none, we start with we'll move to a vote and we start with me. I am an I. Councelor Lord. >> Hi. >> Sam Mloud. >> I. Pam Rooney, >> yes. >> Councelor Ryan, >> hi. >> Kathy Shane, >> yes. >> Jennifer Tob, >> yes. >> Councelor Bravik, >> yes. >> Anna Degier, >> I. >> And Lyn Greimer, >> I. >> That is unanimous 10 to zero with three absent, who are councelor Ko Martin, Andy Churchill, and councelor Walker. Um, we now move on to let's see where we are. Um 8 item 83 the other appropriation order was on consent and voted on consent. So it is 7:52. We have one more item on our agenda and then it is just committee liaison and manager reports at that time. Would people want to take a break or just move on to that item and see how quickly we can get out of here? We're going to move on. Um, this is item 8B, proposed zoning bylaw, article 18, to consider amending the zoning bylaw by adopting article 18, clean energy infrastructure and associated amendments to zoning section 3, use classifications and standards. 511 uh, renewable energy accessory solar photovoltaic installation/ battery energy storage system uses 6.2 fences and article 12 definitions. This is a first read. No motions will be taken tonight under our charter. We have to have two reads before we can do any voting. Um I'm going to recognize uh Pam Rooney to give a very brief uh CRC report and then I will move on to Anna Develier for the G report. >> Wonderful. Thank you very much. There was an extensive memo in your packet. Uh so the summary of that is that the CRC has worked on this measure for over a year and a half um incorporating public comment um planning board comment and now we have a document that has go comment. So we appreciate all the input. Um before I do anything else, I do want to uh acknowledge the work that has gone into this from other than counselors. Um the solar bylaw working group consisting of Dwayne Bger, Martha Hanner, Janet McGawan, Lara Paggle Ruo, Robert Brooks, Daniel Corkran, and Jack Gick. The planning board has been several terms worth. town staff across many departments. But a special uh thanks to Stephanie Chikarelloo who has served as liaison to the working group and to the CRC on this bylaw. The staff include Dave Zomeck, Aaron Jacques, Rob Mora, Chris Baskam, Steve Gan Amy Rouski, Jeff Bag, and I'm sure many others. There are two former staff, town planner Christine Breastrop and Nate Mallaloy who contributed and former CRC members Pat D'Angelus and Kathy Shane who both contributed to this document. In a nutshell, this document represents uh the town of Amoris adaptation of the state mandate to have and allow a single consolidated permit available for applicants starting in October 1. And the bylaw that has been composed addresses three components. One is a consolidated permit process. Second is simple simple solar sighting requirements and third battery energy storage system sighting requirements. The purpose of this bylaw is to facilitate clean energy development by providing a clear path for um for proceeding but also providing enforcable standards for the placement and operation and removal that maintains public safety. So that is the the gist of a 20page document. If there are any questions, I and others on the CRC would be happy to answer them. >> U Anna G report. >> So G had to turn it into a competition to try to find um minor changes or clarity, consistency, and actionability. As a reminder, we were not looking for substantive changes to make. Uh you can see our changes in the document that's in front of you. They were minor, and we appreciate the the length of time it took CRC to get this to us. and I don't want to tell you how long it took us to get it back to you. So, thank you. >> It was an hour. >> Thank you. Um, we will now move into discussion, questions, comments. Again, this is a first read. I'm going to say the second read is slated for September 14th. Um, before I recognize others, I want to say um, one of your changes, G, was to redefine the 2024 climate act, and there are four other places it references it. So, I will be sending another track change version to Athena um making sure all of them are are also incorporated. I found some others because it's so long as I went through, but they are all also very minor to for consistency and I won't take any more time than that at the council meeting. >> We'll give you a stick or two. >> It's I kept every time I look at it um I find some. So, we'll start with Sam McCloud. >> Uh thank you, Mandy. I just uh for somebody who hasn't followed this thoroughly through all the years, I'd like to thank uh CRC chair councelor Rooney for a report that I found to be very helpful. And uh congratulations to all who worked on this to getting this uh bylaw inside the two yard line first and goal. >> Thank you, Lynn Greimer. Um, I also want to begin by thanking all who've worked on this for the last three years. And yes, I've been paying attention, but not maybe as much as I should have. And while I'm a member of the go committee, uh, we only review for clarity, consistency, and actionability. And I have some questions that are outside the purview of that committee. Um and then depending on the answers we'll decide what the next steps might be. My questions come into three different categories. One is the distance required from private wells. The second is frequency of inspections and the third is hazardous waste and the relationship to insurance. Um, I can divide them up or go right ahead with them however the president would like me to do. >> Um, start let one at a time, okay? >> Because I think it'll be easier to follow. >> I represent district 2, which includes the 5% of Ammerst that is on private wells. In fact, my husband and I have a private well. uh because of this significant cluster of wells in the northeast corner of Ammerst, I feel strongly that the entire area should be seen as equivalent to a public water resource or well. Those of us who are in this corner of Ammerst share the same underground water resources and thus are at the same risk asked of residents who have access to public water resources. In fact, because of our water resources, all of our underground, one might even view them as more vulnerable. We can't see them. My question is, why would we not treat private wells and clusters of private wells with the same distance requirements that we do public wells? Um, Pam, do you have an ability to summarize the planning board conversation? And I know CRC planning board hearings had an big conversation about that. Um distance requirements. Try why don't you try? >> I I can try that. Um the response from the planning board was that um with research in hand effects of solar panels is negligible. that there are in fact rooftops that collect water, rainwater for drinking from solar panels. So that the solar panels themselves are not um perceived and and um researched as material sources of pollution or contamination. Battery energy storage systems however are a different ballgame and they are treated in a different manner with a with a much larger u offset distance >> then >> my next question and these are all related by the way is regarding inspections please correct me if I am wrong but as I read the bylaw Inspections are required as the project is being built and then after one year only if there is an extraordinary weather event or some other kind of event. We live in a town where we now inspect our rentals every 3 years. Why wouldn't we do that here? Seems to me a more routine inspection whether or not it is because of an emergency or not should be required on a regular basis. Pam, >> thank you. That's a very good point. Um, during construction, there would be a routine uh inspection. Much of the damage, much of the issue around solar sighting is in fact erosion control and storm management following construction, which means that the site has been stabilized. If there is a heavy rain event, that is one inch over a 24-hour period, which is fairly regular these days, that is the trigger for um an inspection by the third party. So the the the developer or the owner has the responsibility to maintain reporting with that frequency and that may not be um so again this is this is presumably after stabilization of the site. Does that answer your question? >> It answers it. I'm not sure I'm happy with it. Thank you. >> Okay. And your third, >> hazardous waste insurance. While I'm aware that we do not live in significant hail h a i l zones such as those who live in Texas. Nevertheless, we are we aren't blind and we have seen more and more erratic weather events in the northeast. Who knows what's to come. How do we ensure that some extreme weather event, not just rain, that could damage solar panels and trig or trigger an accident with Bess could lead to hazardous waste that can in fact leech into our water supplies and private wells, making them useless and frankly totally negating the value of our homes? Is the ratio for insurance liability sufficient to cover these unknown weather events and impacts on individual homes? And in addition, in evaluating the base on a regular basis, which you the bylaw accounts for, should the 1.25 factor be even higher? >> I don't have answer for that. And I don't think Dave Zomeck would have an answer to that at this time, but we will note that one down. Um Stephanie Cherella was unable to be here tonight, so yeah, so um we will note that one down and forward that on to staff and hopefully be able to get a written answer to that um prior to the next meeting. Councelor Ryan. So this is a rather broad question and I I feel compelled to ask it. I my understanding is the state strongly is working to to meet its energy goals um is strongly working or encouraging the kinds of facilities that this bylaw seeks to regulate and so the solar farms and the vests and so forth. So I guess my question is to I don't know how much was discussed whether it's even considered but to what degree the kinds of restrictions and requirements uh which seem quite numerous in this bylaw um might run into problems with the state or with the courts >> I'm having a hard time >> understanding the question or >> you with the hand up you kind of sometimes it sounds jumbled. >> Oh I I'll repeat it. Um the state is very eager to encourage these kinds of facilities to meet its energy goal. So the question I have is whether this was discussed by the committee or staff, whether they feel that the kinds of uh regulations that are in this bylaw um which are quite extensive might have might run into problems with the state and or the courts um because one would think that a lot of what's being um regulated here is already covered by the kinds of you know regulations that already exist. in general, but apparently not. So, um, is there any concern that that this is going to be challenged in court or that the state I don't know if the state even looks at it. Um, maybe they don't, but um, was that at all discussed? Because this is very detailed. I'm just imagining other towns and cities in the Commonwealth all getting to have they're all going to have to do this to regulate their solar farms and best facilities. is kind of detailed by law. >> So, I'm I'm going to try and answer that and then Pam will add on. Thank you. >> Um cuz Kathy and I were the ones that delved into all the regulations. So, >> the state passed a law uh that requires the that tears the clean energy infrastructure into state permitted in infrastructure which we would call really large. let me just call it really big. Um and then um a consolidated permit pathway for what we're actually calling large um but anything below the really large. Um in response to that law, they authorized uh a department to create regulations to implement the law. Um we must as of October 1 accept a consolidated permit application under the law. that permit must be adjudicated and ruled on and either granted or denied within one year of the fulfillment of the application. Um in the state in in putting forth regulations also put forth guidelines. The regulations are law. The guidelines are not. What the guidelines are are if and a town may say we're not going to permit this state. You can have the lower level ones too. We got the application. We're not going to review it. State issue the permit. Review it and issue the permit at the size we're talking about here. We don't want to do that. We want to be able to issue the permits ourselves. Um but if the state is issuing the permit or if within a year of the application the town does not rule on a permit application, the guidelines are what go into effect and become the um permit requirements. So, what we attempted to do was match as many of those guidelines to our bylaw as possible where it made sense. Um, and then cover some things that weren't in the guidelines that we're still allowed to cover. Um, particularly actually what the guidelines were really missing were the distances from wells. The water supply protection requirements are basically non-existent in those guidelines. So that is part of this bylaw where we felt we didn't want to just go with the guidelines or say you know let the state handle it all. We want a bylaw that handles all of that because water supply protection is very important. So that I would say that's one of the things where the bylaw is important. What I would say is CRC had a legal review. Um there were a lot of questions from the attorney about how this looks and what it is. But when we asked the attorney specifically if this were just a solar sighting bylaw, ignore the state regulations, ignore the consolidated permit part of it, if the state hadn't passed that, but we were still because that's what we originally started on was just solar sighting and and best sighting and all, what would your opinion be? And her opinion was this is good for that. You are good for that. So, um, we got no concerns regarding during that legal review regarding the legality of any of what the sighting of the structures and the the regulations we put into this bylaw for the sighting of the structures was. The attorney basically greenlighted that there. There can the AG's office does not review, we're a city, does not review the laws. So, there could always be a lawsuit. Um, we we can't predict, right? But the attorney thought that what we had drafted um was well within our avail ability to do so and was solid. Pam, would you like to add anything to that? Okay. >> So, you you didn't you obviously do not feel that um these restrictions are overly ownorous or would um dissuade anyone from proceeding uh to address the kinds of uh energy issues that we face as a society. So, you feel these are legitimate? I'm just asking. I I don't >> um these are legitimate uh restrictions or concerns uh that um will make both the residents safer and also make it possible for people to build solar arrays and to build batteries battery storage facilities. >> Yes. What I will say to that is during the public hearing, the planning board definitely had that in mind to make sure that they were not overly restrictive. That was one of the things they always questioned us about any of the setbacks and stuff. Is this too much? Um, and I will say given the makeup of CRC that happened during even before it made it to planning bird hearing. Um, that push back of is this too much? Is this going too far? What what do we need to do? So that that was part of the conversation. I I would I feel um Pam, >> I think it would be surprising if you actually looked at the state guidelines that they were much more detailed than I would have expected. You know, we sort of said expected a cart blanch. If you want to do this kind of project, go go for it. They had a lot of detail and um we were well within the range of what the state was was asking for. What we added was a a small section on agro voltics which is the allowance of um agriculture beneath canopies, solar canopies. Um and then the the extended distances from wells which sounds like we you know just need to double check and confirm. >> Yeah. The extensiveness the between the guidelines, the regulations and all of the explanatory and all it's over 200 pages from the state. We're at 14. So Anna, >> thank you. Um, so I one of my significant concerns here is on the impact of W on wildlife, which seems to kind of have been given more of a passing glance in this. And I appreciate the glances that it was given, but I wanted to dig into two specific pieces that I would love to see um possibly adjusted in this. The first is that I' I'd like to see a more specific mention of maintaining migration quarters um on the fences. So having um you talk about fence height in a couple places, but I'd like to see, you know, there are folks who are doing not just the height of the whole fence, but little cutouts that are turtle sized or whatever it is, right? And so I'd like to see mention specifically of looking at uh an analysis of what natural wildlife occurs in the area and making sure that it's not disrupting the patterns of that wildlife, which gets me to my second point, which is actually where I came into this, which is about birds. Um, and I one of the things in 18093 it talks about glare. Um, and it says SPI shall be located so as to minimize glare onto any abuing or nearby occupied buildings. That's great. However, that's not the only thing that the glare of an SPI impacts. Um, and so when we think about the glare of these panels, we know we are seeing more and more studies of birds that are fooled by spec especially large scale solar fields. They think that they're lakes. Um, and we're seeing this impact on foraging habits because insects tend to gather there, but also on migration patterns. And so I wanted to I'd like to adjust and I can try to think of what language this could look like and I I know how long you spent on this and so I don't like being that person that's coming in with a a suggestion, but I guess that's our job. Um, I would like to see something in the glare definition that is more clearly talking about um that the glare analysis needs to include mitigation efforts aimed at mitigating the impact on wildlife. Mitigation again broadly glances over the concept of wildlife, but I think it needs more specificity here. There are treatments that you can do. There are coatings. There are decals. There are all sorts of things that that developers could do to a solar array to lessen that negative impact on birds and I would like to see that included. That's all I got for now. Pam, >> um I will note that that we have uh included in the um I think it's in the dimensional requirements or actually it was in the special section on the height of the fence that they have to be held 8 in above the ground which allows for everything everything um except probably bears. Um, woodchucks, woodchucks go at my house go into like a 2-in high opening. Um, but I think that that tends to cover the bulk of most small mammals and turtles. Yeah, I think I guess I I would like to make sure that a biologist honestly or someone with more with not that you and I don't have the expertise but someone who is able to say in this area this is what animals are moving through and it could be broad enough for the whole town but if there are specific areas we want to make sure that um that 8 in is sign is is adequate um and yeah that would be my my approach there uh in terms in terms of coverage of the of the panels with vinyl or or some sort of reflective like bird deflection material or something like that. We did not include that and I don't know of any solar field that includes something like that if that if it's available if it's available. >> Yeah, there are and there's a couple different strategies. I'm happy to send them as I guess inspiration. But um I think it's something that I'd like to see us encouraging in our policy and not just relying on people to do on their own. >> Thank you. Um Kathy, >> I just had a really quick comment in response to George's concerns. Um, when Mandy and I and I've not looked at this in any depth since I went off CRC, when we looked at what the state had done, I was shocked at the level of bureaucracy and steps and details and things we were required to do in and they were billing it as streamlining and it it was it was somewhat overwhelming including new terms. So, I just wanted to say that, you know, this is an effort to make it at least work for Ammerst. And the the only other comment I would have um I am near a solar field up in North Ammeris and that 8 in allows lots of very big turkeys to run under it because when my little dog goes the all these turkeys go dashing through to the protection under it. So, it's amazing what some of these what you would think an awfully large animal and and they they do underneath, but that field has lots of pathways through it. You know, it's not one big fenced area. And that was because it was also a cross-country skiing and Robert would cross. So, there was an effort by the town and the builders, the installers to maintain public access ways through land. So, just thinking about that a little bit in terms of the expanse of it. It's if anyone walks up there, it's the one near the Cherry Hill Golf Course, but there are lots of ways to walk through it um that I think are really helpful for um Anna's point about animals, but also humans um that it didn't restrict all access to those areas. >> Thank you, Jennifer. Um yeah, I just want to ask Ann on a um so were you concerned that for each solar installation application that the height of the that you know the permitting body look at the wildlife that's there? >> I I don't know that we have such diversity in our wildlife from area to area in the town of Ammerst. I think that it's really a matter of asking, you know, if there was someone with the expertise to know the the not just anecdotally, but to truly know the fauna in the area and their their migration habits and their access needs um to make sure that we've haven't forgotten anything. You know, I think we all could sit here and brainstorm a list of animals, but is there something we forgot? And I want to I would want to make sure that if 8 in is adequate, that's great. Um, but I would want someone to who's who has that expertise to make sure that they've weighed in and if they did, excellent. >> Yeah. Well, Erin Jacques, I mean, there was many town staff and I know she was representing the um conservation commission and she reviewed the bylaw, I think, in detail. >> Um, Dave, >> I'll be very brief. Um, I think this is a great conversation. I I think the the standard is 8 to 10 in for wildlife passage. I will say that uh and we've gone through this um quite extensively with with Pure Sky down at at Hickory. um you you run into um variation and variation might create opportunities for different wildlife of different sizes. But we also need to think about children and we really don't you know for for their safety and for any human safety factors. We we want to make it difficult uh and impossible actually for folks to get into these uh arrays because there are some could be some dangerous elements in there. so we can get more information and I'm going to pass along your questions, the council's questions to Stephanie so she can coordinate um responses for the for the 14th. But um 8 to 10 in is about the standard. But again, we need to think higher than that. It gets pretty easy for a child um or even a teenager to to get under that. So um public safety is a factor as well. Thanks. >> Thank you. Um, I wanted to comment just to explain a little bit more about the site suitability assessments and scores because that might and and encourage you to read that guideline. I can forward it to you. Um, the if you're doing the consolidated permitting process and your array um or best is of a certain size, you have to do site suitability. And these are um standardized throughout the state based on state maps. And there are five different criteria that need to be assessed for site suitability. One of which is biodiversity. Um and that includes the priority habitats designated by mass wildlife natural heritage and endangered species program and the index of ecological integrity values from the UMass conservation assessment prioritization system. Um and you are given a score and at certain scores you may be required to mitigate or minimize or not do it at all depending on the score. Um, so I I would encourage you to read a little bit about those those assessments to see if that um alleviates some of the concern regarding wildlife corridors. They talk about wildlife in in the biodiversity, but not necessarily corridors, but mitigation and minimization is not really, you know, they don't say what that has to be. That would be up to the permit granting authority depending on the score. Um, so that that may be and that is standardized based on the map at certain levels and where the land is. Um, and much of our land that might be on that would would fall within some of those biomaps and all for lower scores to require the minimization and mitigation. Um, but I will forward you some of that so that you can read a little bit more about what the site suitability purposes. Um, >> I would appreciate it. I think my concern about the fence height is the lesser of my two concerns to be honest with you. I think um I'm not that wasn't a huge a huge concern. I just thought the turtle cutouts in the other city were kind of cool. Um however, I I do think that I'm I'm happy to dig in more. I think it'll be helpful. My concern isn't with with birds is that it's interrupting migration habits, not necessarily nesting habitat. I mean certainly the creation of this is in its own way but um because it's creating a new element that the birds perceive to be water and so I think I'm curious to see how this lines up and how folks are navigating it but I'm I'm not sure that it will show up on that uh like on the maps and things like that because it's not necessarily a nesting habitat, right? So I think it's um I feel like this is a new area to kind of see if we can tease apart and maybe we can do it a little bit better. Thank you. I would um please please send me that and it's happy to read it. >> Council Ryan, >> I was just going to add that that I would certainly support any kind of fencing uh regulation or migration strategy that would uh encourage woodchucks to uh to move to to Belgtown or Hadley or any place actually outside of Ammerst. Just just so you know. Thank you. Any further comments? Seeing none, we will move on. Um, appointments were done under consent. Um, committee and liaison reports. Are there any further town council committee reports? I think we've had one in the packet from every committee. Any others? Seeing up Kathy looks like she's >> I I was just going to say we are meeting tomorrow and to the extent that other council members are interested in what our financial policies are um how OPED works and how the pension fund works. That is the discussion we're having. Um and and we'll get a brief report from the budget book uh subcommittee, but it it's an effort to make sure that we and and the financial policies were originally given to us by the select board and we updated them, you know, but those are policies that we as a council have adopted. >> Thank you. Any reports from counselors that are sit on town committees? Pam, >> I will report on the DPW building committee. That's okay. Y >> um that project is moving along. The scope of work and the fees associated have been agreed upon that has been signed and with the original um appropriation that was still in hand from earlier efforts. uh this will carry the project through I think through schematic design. Um so that's really good. We get a really good handle on the schematic the layouts the opportunities there within this this um before before anyone has to come back to council for additional appropriations. Uh the work that's going on right now is confirmation of site conditions um both at the existing site and the Ruxton site which is on Pulpit Hill Road and that concerns wetlands contaminants geotechnical studies. The consultant is interviewing staff essentially as we speak. They started those interviews on the 13th and they are meeting with all of the staff and the departments to assess staffing and actual um actual needs in terms of facility use and equipment. I did ask at the meeting and I will ask again tonight that uh the town manager provide a uh a current and projected staffing list for the DPW for all of those departments. I know we have we have the current list in the budget book for this year, but I would like very much to see if there is an intended projection of staff so that we're actually designing a building for staff that we think we'll have, not something that we would like to be having, you know, 15 years out. Um, let's see what else. I think that's basically Oh, then then just to summarize when the next meetings will occur, uh they will be on September 16, October 21, November 18, and December 16 for the time being. Wednesday mornings, 10:00. >> Thank you. George, do you have a report or a question? Because I have a question for Okay, so I'm going to ask my question for um Pam, which is in addition to that, that sounds great. Is there a desire to get or or did you ask for a projection of vehicles? I know in JCPC vehicles and numbers of vehicles have been a huge question especially with DPW and as we're building a new building that's going to have to house all of these. Maybe we can get a projection of that and that consideration as well during this. >> Let's make that a very specific request to the town manager that we get a list of vehicles current and projected. Thank you. Um >> write in writing >> or just just part of that conversation of projections as you're projecting out for needs. Um I'm going to go to Jennifer because I think the hand is up for Pam. Um I appreciate um having the dates of the next um building committee meetings. Um are they has there been any more discussion about having them um on Zoom, you know, remote? They're going to be they're going to be um hybrid. >> Oh, yeah. Okay. Thank you. >> You and Lynn. >> Oh, okay. Kathy, do you have a question for Pam? >> Uh, no. I just um I'm going to forward to you. Sean has been working on a vehicle policy. Um that would include when we take vehicles offline because they're not being used very often or we share them. So, I'll just share it to you because it will have an immediate effect or should have an effect on DPW and requests for new new vehicles. >> Thanks. And now we'll move to Councelor Ryan. >> I was going to just say something briefly about TSO. I think my hand was a little slow. >> Go right ahead. >> Thank you. I appreciate that. Um I I'm sure you all read the report but just uh to reinforce that we've had our second lengthy discussion with the consultant and in the report it gives you a sense of the kind of decision points that we're moving towards. Um in the most recent meeting I think it's fair to say we had only three members present but the consensus is moving towards a pay as you throw model. So imagine that people would have their trash out and then if they don't fit the particular size of the bucket um they would have to have something put into a bag and the bag would be alongside of it. Um that's the direction we're heading in. We haven't made any decisions and also leading towards mandatory composting. Um so please take a look at the report if you hadn't. Um the decision points are listed and we will have our next discussion exclusively with the consultant on September 3rd. and any thoughts or concerns you have, please share them with the chair or come and attend the meeting. >> Thank you, Kathy. >> Just uh I was going to report on the school building, but George, couple questions. Well, I will read the report. Do we have a sense of will we save money compared to the way people currently do? And will we be putting the town at risk for the complaints that now go towarding? So I will read the report but I think the concern has been are to what extent are we going to increase uh costs of waste and then the bags versus um buckets. Um if you watch what the bears are doing to even buckets um unless you secure them securely put them on the lid uh the paper bag would be a pure disaster if it was a bag up where we live. I mean that our our our bears are really very clever >> and I'm I'm talking about North Ammeris in general, but they come out of the woods and they uh they uh took the lid right off a bucket and tipped it over and had a really good time with it. >> Thank you. Um and you wanted to do a school building committee update. >> I was just going to do a really quick update. Um and I'm not sure the slides are posted yet, but the the building's basically being occupied right now. the teachers are moving and all their materials in and they're just a few finishing touches but the and the issue with Eversource um would we be connected or not the town staff Bob Parrot as well as our people have been working non-stop every week and the uh one comment from the DNSCO architect is they've never seen Eversource trying to be as accommodating as they are so the fact that our senator and our rep got on their case and raised this to a high level made a difference. And then the final one that was very touching, Allison Estus, who is the principal of um the Mishbrook, she wanted to give a report on what the reaction to the school has been. And she said some of the teachers have walked in, looked around and burst into tears of joy and on the space that they they would be working in and what it's going to mean for the kids. Um, she said, "We've really created something of beauty." And she was worried about storage. Each teacher was told not to bring any more than 23 boxes to their class as they're setting it up. And one appeared with 30. And she said, "Well, see what you can do." And she proudly said, "I got them all in." So um so in any case it's it school will start on the 26th but they're doing a rotating series of classes so parents can visit with kids before that you know just get a sense of what the school's going to look like and what where you're going to be. So, the school folks and staff have been fantastic on accommodating what is a very complicated move because um I can't tell you how many volumes of books Wildwood and Fort Rivers libraries had with all that unused space that they had. So, it's how do you get down to enough that fit in a library? Um so, people have been working hard all summer. >> Thank you, Pam. I have a question for Kathy and that has to do with traffic. Has has there been solid uh conversation with the school community about not driving kids to school in the morning or pickup so that we can start to alleviate some of that traffic congestion. Uh we need to take that up again because I don't have a good answer. they are well aware of it and I don't know what notices have gone out that didn't come up at the building committee meeting but I can talk to the principal and the staff the staff are aware of the issue and whether that communication has gone out or not I don't know >> may maybe we could say that that at least one counselor expressed strong interest in seeing a reduction of parent drop off because we already pay for our buses we would like to see the buses used efficiently. Yeah, we'll will do. >> Thank you. Um, council Ryan, do you have a question for school building? >> No, but another report. >> Okay, we're going to hold off on that then. Sam, >> uh, it it may overlap with what George was going to say. Uh, it was regarding traffic plan for the school which was discussed in transportation parking. Uh so the town staff and police department were working on it. The one they have some alternate parking spaces, but the one part of good news that I heard which people may have seen as they drive by the uh site is instead of there just being a single entrance and exit, there is going to be two uh there's going to they they're constructing and finishing currently another access point uh near the original uh section that was going to be for the bus route. So there'll be not just the singular one and it's it may be ready this week. There'll be at least one entrance for the buses and another ones for the parents drop off. There's still going to be traffic headaches, but I was encouraged to uh see that development uh nearly be complete. >> Thank you, Councelor Ryan. >> So, transportation and park commission had its uh I think it's his third meeting. Um and the portal the that we hope will be the interface between the public and the commission is still not ready for prime time but it is in a beta format and members are using it and getting it. So hopefully within a week or two that will be online. Hopefully the next time we meet I can announce that. The commission did go ahead and make a recommendation on a project for Mount Holio Drive for a crosswalk. And just so the council understands, under our current rules, that actually goes not to the council, but it goes to Paul. Um, and it basically recommended that a crosswalk be placed at that site. Um, there is a financial implication as you can imagine. Um, and so just uh just to understand that that that's what happens. Uh, it then now goes to Paul and it gets into the larger issue of funding. Um so uh all future uh requests from residents um need to go onto the portal. So um we will not be taking up any more uh resident requests until the portal is live. And any requests that have been made up to this point will have to go into the portal for us to take up. And so getting the portal up and running is a big priority and hopefully that will take place soon. >> Thank you Kathy. Uh, George, um, I'm willing to do this, but I need to know where to send it. Over the last three years, maybe even four years, JCPC has had resident requests that all are around crosswalks, slowing down, uh, speed humps. Um, and each time we were told we have to have a policy first. So, what my my issue is is people wrote those up and presented them. If I gather them all, can I just send them in that these were the in the queue from the past and they were supposed to be held by DPW as a series of things to be considering. And I'm I just feel like asking people I'm not saying that you need to do them, but you can see the breadth of them. And you know, uh there's a set of streets up in North Ammeris where you can avoid a traffic light by going through a neighborhood. and they were asking for some traffic calming kinds of things. And the one of the responses, we have several like that in town. And so if we want to do something about those bypass streets, we should be looking at how many of them we have and doing it. But in any case, I I have them all and can just send them to and then who do I send them to? Or I can send them through Shawn to you. >> Well, they would go they would not go to me. they would go to the chair which is Andy Steinberg and I can give you his email address but um and I there's nothing wrong with that. I think you can go ahead and do that. But what uh he has told us and what I think the commission has agreed is at this point those requests in order to be activated or to be considered by the commission would need to be entered by the various requesters onto the portal. And of course, since the portal isn't ready yet, that's I understand it's a bit of a problem. But um yes, please forward them to uh Commissioner Steinberg and uh but understand that for them to proceed at this point uh at some point once the portal is up, they'll have to be entered into the portal by the various requesters. >> So may I follow up on that? Sure. So the requests that the transportation parking commission have received so far in the last 6 months will not be entered into that portal and therefore will not be considered unless they re email you or email us. The chair will not be entering them on their behalf. >> You could raise that issue with the chair. Um but that is what uh was and maybe Sam if you'd like to weigh in here at this point >> that exact >> Sam >> question was uh asked in varying forms or inferred by myself uh recognizing that there were quite a number of requests that came through the council uh all of which were forwarded to the chair. The long and the short of it is the committee has yet to determine a prioritization format. Uh I raised this at the last meeting. Uh it has yet to be discussed the process currently. Uh the initial crosswalk at South Mount Holio and the uh initial um discussions are demonstrative to learn the process but we have not yet set a a process for determining which uh items will be decided first. And there could be a variety of reasons. Uh prioritization due to importance. Uh certainly the ones that have been provided to date, I raised that very clearly. Uh with the indication that somebody should at least enter them and consider uh even if they come in after others that they were asked first. uh but it has yet to be determined and um it'll be interesting to see how this goes forward. There was discussion about potentially having application windows uh if there's too many similar to what we've done in the past with uh CPA. Uh stay tuned. Uh it'll we'll see how this rolls forward. There's a lot there to consider. >> One one other question. As the chair indicated that if the chair is not going to enter those into the portal that they will at least uh email those requesters and inform them like we have to do with all of our applications so they will at least be informed that they need re-entered >> without question. And if the chair didn't, there are other members of the committee that would. So, uh, they'll all get ingested and I think it's less for the purpose of time frame of which ones are first, uh, as opposed to having a standardized information process for all the requests that come in. Uh, uh, the these suggestions have been made to the chair. Thank you. >> Thank you. Um, we'll go move on to liaison reports. Are there any liaison reports at this time? I do want to mention that the council did receive the annual report of the human rights commission and it is in the packet for tonight's meeting. I'm seeing no other hands. We will move on to the town manager report. Dave, would you like to say anything? No, other than to express my appreciation for the, you know, the thoughtful conversation and and great questions you had about Wildwood School. I think staff have given that a a lot of thought and and the time that your votes will allow for us to do deeper assessment is really appreciated. And I think all of us once once that committee once all works to appoint that committee, that working group, whatever it is called, I think we'll all feel better about charting a path for the future of Wildwood. So looking forward to working with the council on that. Thank you. >> Thank you. I'll move on to town council comments. We start with the president's report. Oh, okay. Um I'll just highlight one thing with that which is um next week, I think it's next week, there is a scheduled meeting um that is between some staff at the town. um myself, the vice president and I have invited counselor Kathy Shane um to attend too and UMass leadership. I do not know who yet. I will find out when I show up. Um um but I have heard that the chancellor will not be at it. Um and the best that um the town manager has been able to give me on topics is P3, the recent contract that was signed and housing. Um that's as much as I can give right now because that's as much information as I have. But if you've got any thoughts on that or on and and this is particularly for I have heard I I don't know whether um there's a group of residents that I know a number of counselors signed the letter to that was sent to the university. I do not know whether that will come up, but if there are any thoughts particularly from counselors that signed that letter, please let send everything to myself, Kathy, and Vice President Walker. Um, again, since I don't really exactly know what is going on in this meeting. I can't guarantee we can bring any of it up, but it would be good for us to have as much thoughts from counselors as possible before we go into that meeting. That meeting is next week. So, I wanted to highlight that. Um um if there's questions on the president's report, I will do that now. Otherwise, I'll move on to future agenda items. Future agenda items are agenda. In two weeks, I am trying to clear the deck of everything so that I can call a work session instead of a sort of regular special meeting. um for Hampshire campus zoning. Um please watch the first public presentation that was given about a month ago now almost um because we will not be the the consultants will not be representing that information. It will be expected that you are aware and have sat with the information that was presented at that public meeting before the August 31st meeting. um when the agenda is posted, we'll obviously post a link, but I sent a link out to that video beforehand um to get a preview of what the meeting is about and all there. The consultants are meeting with the planning board, I believe, on Wednesday of this week for a similar thing. So, um they wanted to meet with the planning board, they wanted to meet with the council. That's what the meeting on um the 31st is. I'm trying to make it a work session, which means I cannot have anything else on the agenda. If other things pop up, it will obviously not be titled a work session, but it will be run in the same manner as a work session. Um, any questions related to that before we move on to councelor comments? Councelor Ryan. >> So, in my experience, the difference between a council meeting and a work session is that at a work session, we get fed. Is is that is that >> that's not going to happen this time? >> Cannot have any votes. We did our first big work session related to the charter review committees. >> Well, we got pizza or something. >> I don't know whether we did or not, but we're not getting fed at this one. Um, >> but no, you're not going to feed us. >> No votes, one topic only. Um, and informal. No food at this one. Sorry. >> It will start at 6:30. >> Pam, >> I just wanted to confirm if this work session is the August 31st meeting or a different date. >> It is the 31st. Okay. Yes. That is why we are holding a meeting on the 31st is for the work session for the Hampshire campus zoning. Um Kathine, >> I want to underscore that anyone who didn't watch the session should get the zoom and watch it and look at the charts because um they there was a lot of work done on mapping out exactly where the land is and what the condition of the land is. In other words, is it wet? Is it not wet? where their roadways now and things that came up about if it's education zoned. The Red Barn, which is used very often for events, can't be used that way if it's education, but there's not an educational facility. So, some of these things of alternative uses. I thought it was a really interesting meeting and very thoughtful on an array of creative options that you could consider for zoning. um some of which I hadn't thought of. So, it it's worth watching it to come with as many questions as we can that go beyond >> because there weren't a lot there wasn't a lot of Q&A during that session >> and I will have more information as we figure out more with the consultants exactly how it will be run and all. Um but we will try to get that presentation into the packet in enough time for people to be able to delve into that more than just over the zoom link. Um, councelor Ryan, you >> probably made this clear earlier and I dismissed it, but if the work session goes ahead on the 31st, and that's is truly work session, we're only talking about Hampshire College, the solar issue, the solar uh bylaw is going to be in September. >> September 14. >> 14. Yes. Okay. That still fits the schedule. >> That that is the the plan for September 14 in case people are curious. Right now, is a council photo at 5:30. um the clean energy bylaw um and a a proclamation that was just uh automatically referred to go today. At this point, that's all it is. Um there's a possibility for some additional zoning bylaw proposals from Pam and Jennifer if they decide to go forward um with those. I do not know the status of that. Um so, we will see. They got a month. But if if I get that in time, that would be on the 14th. So, um, that's right now the schedule for the 14th. It's a month away, so I'm sure a lot will change in that time. Um, any counselor comments? Jennifer? >> Yes. So, I don't want to get into a he said, she said, but since I was directly addressed in a public comment, I just think it's important. Um when you look at this sheet that we were given it would suggest that you know the student enrollment has been flat and according to the UMass um you know statistics between 2000 and 2025 undergraduate enrollment and this is just undergraduate increased by 6,000 and um to assume that all of that is online would seem not to be accurate. Um and I do believe in probing statistics. I know that in April of 2023, we received a fact sheet on housing trends from UMass and one of the items said that between 20 two 2020 and 2022, the Hampshire County population had increased by 11% and that's why we were having a housing crunch and that didn't sound right. And when I probed more deeply, it turned out there had been no population increase in Hampshire County in that time. and the you know university did retract the statement. So, I just I would caution against looking at this and saying, "Oh, you know, um the campus enrollment has remained static and that there's no increase in um students, you know, living off campus, although, you know, I won't list them all. I've done it before. There are many uh apartment complexes that have been built that are primarily um, you know, have student residents. Um, and we're certainly seeing that in district 4 with an explosion of protected use ADUs and the applicants are very clear uh who the residents will be who they're building those um residences for. Thanks. >> Thank you. Any further counselor comments? Seeing none, there are no topics not anticipated 24 48 hours in advance by the chair. There is no executive session. So, I move to adjourn the meeting. Is there a second? >> Shane seconds. Uh we move to a vote. We start with councelor Lord. >> Sam Mloud >> I. >> Pamaron >> yes. >> Councelor Ryan. >> Hi. >> Kathy Jane. >> Yes. >> Jennifer Tob. >> Yes. >> Councelor Brevik. >> Yes. >> Anna Devon Gothier. >> I. >> Lyn Greimemer. >> I. >> And Mandy Johan is an I. That is unanimous. 100 with counselors Keno Martin Churchill and Walker absent. We are adjourned at 8:52