Video summary
The video centers on a candid discussion regarding the evolving landscape of digital trust, specifically focusing on the transition from theoretical frameworks to practical implementation within the Trust over IP ecosystem. The speaker details their current workload, which has expanded significantly due to recent regulatory pressures like the EU AI Act and the surge in applicants for conformance programs. Originally envisioned as a part-time role, administering these governance initiatives has become a full-time commitment that requires dropping other concurrent projects, such as the Digital Trust Governance (DTG) stress testing efforts. Despite this heavy load, the speaker remains committed to leading specific working groups while acknowledging the necessity of focusing on high-priority tasks like managing the influx of new applicants and ensuring the stability of the governance framework.
A significant portion of the conversation addresses the shift in strategy from pure decentralization to a hybrid model that incorporates centralized trust registries. The speaker argues that while distributed systems are valuable, they cannot function effectively without a central point of coherence or a "root of trust" to validate claims across different networks. This approach is being championed by a diverse coalition including representatives from the music industry, actors' unions, and international press organizations who seek to protect their digital assets. The group has recently adopted the Trust Registry Query Protocol as a standard, and the immediate goal is to define how validator products can accept and verify claims made through this protocol, moving beyond mere specifications to actual product implementation.
The dialogue concludes with a strong emphasis on community-driven governance and the practical challenges of scaling these trust mechanisms. The speaker highlights the satisfaction derived from helping creators from various sectors assert ownership over their digital objects, noting that hundreds of companies are now interested in the conformance program. However, the overwhelming volume of applications necessitates a triage process to manage concurrent submissions effectively. Ultimately, the discussion underscores the need for industry buy-in and collaborative effort to create tools that allow communities to self-regulate while maintaining interoperability, setting the stage for future meetings where these critical validation standards will be further refined.
Read the full video transcript
Okay, Kevin.
>> Hello, Scott.
>> Uh, let me go check the Discord channel.
See [clears throat] if
Carly is coming. I think
she had mentioned a few things.
>> Okay.
>> I I could certainly use the time
personally, but uh, you know.
When when Carly says something, I come,
you know.
>> Oh, yeah. I agree.
>> Um, so
So,
let's see.
>> Life size trust.
>> I do not see
Alex.
Let's see.
I have a direct link. Um,
so I'll message her.
>> Mhm.
>> And
then we'll
I mean, my sense is is uh,
you know, a lot of these meetings are
uh,
you know, postponed in August. We take
an August break. And I I certainly use
it. I'm working on a lot of things, but
uh,
>> Likewise.
>> Let's let's give her a chance to
respond.
>> Okay.
>> And uh,
>> And what what what while I have your
attention, um, I'd love to
um,
I'd like to tell you what I'm currently
doing and ask if someone is already
doing this or someone I I should talk
with.
>> Okay.
>> I'm working with the Martina. want to
stress test uh the theories behind the
DTG.
And um
we want to as a product either produce a
framework uh that communities can use to
see if this is a good fit for them or a
red paper, what we call a red paper,
which is kind of like red teaming um
a security system.
So, um we we we want to not um
tear it apart, but uh stress test
uh either simulation or or or logic or
something, you know.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So,
couple things. So,
as you may or may not be aware, you
know, I I jumped into the provenance and
authenticity
um segment of the marketplace, which
basically, you know, we had to it was
like a little seed that we grew
ourselves, and now it has gone viral.
So, I immersed myself because there was
a great opportunity for me to be in the
center of it.
Uh helping the Coalition for Content
Authenticity and Authenticity
create a governance program that
demonstrated trust over IP
uh governance work cool tool kit
that I thought would be create the
control that the community was seeking.
And so, I did that uh I started on a
consulting engagement after I sold my
CPA practice about 2 years ago. I did
that.
And it took a year to get that
governance framework put together, and I
you know, I I could spend time on other
things.
And then I took on the responsibility,
since I never did it before, to
administer the conformance program. I
never I was always an auditor of
conformance programs.
And uh I didn't like that. I'd spent
years trying to sell my business so I
could get into the administration or
governance. And I did.
You know, you you know, you
got to think about what you get, you
know? And so, for the for a year, the
program just kind of
you know, we got some insiders in.
And then the EU AI Act came out and you
know, it became effective to some, you
know,
in August and that drew a flood
of new applicants to the program. So,
what I thought was a half-time job, and
I told them it would be a half-time job,
is now a full-time job plus more.
>> Wow.
>> And so, I saw it coming and I said,
"Okay, what
what could I drop from my plate?"
And it it's in the distribute, you know,
the dis- the DTG came off quickly
because
that's another, you know, I wouldn't say
time suck. I think it's valuable, but it
takes up a lot of time and energy. As
now you are immersed in in all that.
It's all valuable. I think it's
relevant. It's still to me will take a
while for it to formulate.
>> Yeah.
>> And I am working on an operational
environment. In addition, I
took on the co-chair of what's called a
cog, the creator assertions working
group, which
is a joint collaboration with Diff and
Trust over IP.
And that
is also going to be lingering
like another full-time job.
So, I got to figure all that. So, I had
to
So, I've really, you know, if I had to,
I could drop from Trust over IP, but I'm
staying at the this at the
uh steering committee level. can't be
involved in all these working groups. I
have to focus on the working groups that
I'm actually leading
because in the times that I'm not
leading one, I'm I'm working on all
these applicants. I'm the only
administrator for the program, so
>> Wow. Wow.
>> That was a a long answer to your
question, but since we had some time.
>> And so she's not
>> So here, so we'll drop. But, um
>> Okay.
>> I think what you're doing, from what I
can hear
>> Mhm.
>> uh, I think it supports that community,
and the community needs tools.
>> Yeah.
>> Um
I honestly, you know, because I left it
>> Mhm.
>> uh, I don't know where it's I don't even
know where that whole
you know, uh, initiative is, except for
the fact that I am aware that Drummond
flew halfway around the world to chase
it.
>> Right.
>> And and he and and that's very common
for Drummond. He chases He'll go
anywhere for anything.
>> Right.
>> Doesn't necessarily mean that that's
advancing that I don't even know if it's
advancing the So,
I I kind of got off the Drummond train
for a while, and
I just be
because he drives it and he just needed
some support when he needed it. Not
necessarily the kind of support I can't
I can't provide that hands-on. And the
time that, you know, he may need I I
don't even think he needs me, to be
honest with you.
So
>> Yeah.
Uh, that's a good assessment. Um
Okay. Uh, well, I'll get with Brad
Graff, and um
he may know who else has been doing the
theoretical stress testing of this this
theory. It's basically theory
>> you talked to Drummond? You know,
Drummond would be
>> I I have I have, yeah. Yeah, and he
suggested um
um
Uh he suggested Martina. He said that
she was doing simulations.
And so so I have I have to end up with
her, but um yeah, um
I mean I I I
the more
diverse perspective, I think the better
because it's
We've got to get get handle on this. Is
it actually going to do the thing that
we think it's going to do?
>> Right. Right.
>> I'm glad you've got your your world that
you're tending. So that's also very
important. So thank you. And then and
for all your help
co-chairing to this point. Yeah.
>> Yeah, well, you know, my sense is is
that at some point, and Drummond has
said this many times.
>> Mhm.
>> Uh the DTG has to have ins you know,
these communities have to create
governance.
>> Yes.
>> Part of what I'm dealing with also at
the
you know, in the Providence area cuz and
it's very active, by the way. We are
in the in in in the cog group which
starts in 45 50 minutes, and this may be
interesting to you, but we are driving
trust registries as a solution
in in what I would perceive as the
biggest advancement of the trust
registry query protocol. And we've
adopted it, not just me, the the group
has adopted it.
It's part It's becoming part of the
spec, and we're going to talk about how
to validate whether something
you know, went to the trust registry or
not, which is pretty exciting because
you know, the IRA and the trust registry
query protocol, it's just specs.
>> Yeah.
>> We're going to put and and really I'm a
doer, not you know, and I I kind of get
tired of
all the spec stuff as opposed to
>> Me, too.
>> implementations, which you're doing,
which I really appreciate.
>> Well, um yeah, I would love to attend
just to be a fly on the wall if that's
okay. You can send me a link. Um I I'd
love that.
>> to. I can do that. And um
>> Uh and I I what I'm coming to is that
that yes, the trust registries
are important because
uh today today I realized we
we can't take the extreme purist
approach of everything is distributed
and decentralized. Everything is on the
edge, then the the center does not hold.
We need something
we need something that pulls us toward a
coherence of
what is this thing? What who what is um
what can we trust together?
>> Right.
>> For for
for communities, communities already
have that through the governance, but
then this network of networks
what's what's the thing that's good?
>> root of trust?
>> What's interesting about and here's the
the Zoom link. And so
the the meeting today is not the working
group, it's a task force focused on
trust issues. So I I lead that. I also
co-chair the working group with Eric
Scouten of of Adobe.
And what's I think it's very interesting
meeting
because we've been doing it for now a
few months.
And it took a while to educate the group
on trust registries and that's the way
to go. And finally, we have really we
have all buy-in
by
um
by industry. So this isn't industry this
isn't just a bunch of
you know, standards people that come to
this meeting. They What comes to this
meeting are the creator community that
wants to implement the to self problems
and I love that. So we have the press
international press, have a rep know,
representative. We have people from the
music industry, from the actors union,
from the voice actors union,
you know, they're all trying to
figure out how to control the
claims
made that I created this digital object
song, movie, whatever it is.
And
the specification can allow and we're
going to focus on who on the
signature claim on the format of the
signature claim which we're going to do
later, but we know that's what we're
leaning.
>> [clears throat]
>> What we're using trust registries for is
the ability to if I make a specific
claim
using a specific industry piece of
metadata, or if I am making a claim as
part of a community that allows me to
make that claim,
then the claim gets transferred over to
the trust registry for validation. And
so today we have So yes, the last two
weeks ago we accepted that we're going
to use the trust registry query
protocol. That's as is. That was That
was big. And then but the question came
up which is very exciting and I'm
excited for this meeting is okay, we
send a message to the trust registry
using the trust registry query protocol,
what would validator products do
to accept that and validate that
someone's on the trust registry? So
that will be the discussion today. And I
think a lot of people really want to
understand that and the do.
I don't know it. And so, I
um you know, hopefully the people that
are in the room, including Darrell
O'Donnell, who leads the Trust Registry
uh task force, can, you know, help us
move forward and come up with the
guidance
that red that validators can use to
accept that. And you know, there's a lot
of people you know, saying, "Oh, there's
product. There's there's opportunity
to create products around that." And
maybe, you know, above and beyond what
they come to the CHTA for. So, I maybe
it makes sense now to drop so I can get
some more work done and then
uh
I if I if I see you, I'll I'll give you
an opportunity to introduce yourself
uh as a member of Trust over IP, you
certainly can can
can visit
there. I I you know, I I don't know
about, you know, contributing, but I see
I don't I don't stand
>> I just want to be an observer.
>> Yeah, I don't stand on ceremony, to be
honest with you, if there's intent
there. So, but
>> Okay.
>> I am a conformance person, so I'll have
to yeah.
>> I I I I also produce media of a video,
so I'll understand what people are are
trying to protect, for sure.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. And so, we I'm working with I
mean, we have 400
companies that have expressed interest
in the conformance program, which is
mind-boggling.
>> Fantastic.
>> And I'm working on a
I have to explain to people cuz they all
think that I just sit around waiting for
their application. I'm working on a
hundred
con- concurrent applications.
>> Wow.
>> And
you know, and so I I just did my triage
and I I I
I serve as they come in. It's pretty
I mean, it's never-ending and I need a
break, but it's amazingly satisfying as
people from all world participate. and
for a variety of reasons you know
whether it's video it's audio it's you
know documents it's
you know so it's very you know to me
it's it's a very fulfilling aspect
that that and it pays because I it's a
paid opportunity to for me to administer
I said I can't do this right there's no
way so all right I'll see you the next
time okay Kevin.
>> See you later.
>> All right take care.
>> Bye bye.