Video summary
In this intense discussion, Eric Weinstein critiques prominent string theorists like Leonard Susskind for what he perceives as a deliberate campaign to dismiss legitimate competitors and protect their own theoretical framework. He argues that while figures such as Lenny Susskind claim "big" String Theory is not the theory of the real world, they are essentially engaging in semantic games rather than addressing the fundamental failure of the field after forty years. Weinstein compares this defensive posture to a scene from *Kill Bill*, where the villain offers an explanation for their crimes that amounts only to saying the victim overreacted; similarly, he suggests these physicists offer "unfinished business" excuses instead of acknowledging how they have destroyed careers and stolen funding from rival theories. He specifically names theorists like Michael Duff, Andy Strominger, Cumrun Vafa, and Michio Kaku as part of a group that has aggressively marginalized alternative approaches, effectively creating an environment where only their specific version of string theory is tolerated despite its lack of empirical success. Weinstein extends this critique to the broader sociology of science, labeling it "Science TM" (Trademark) which he describes as an abomination infecting institutions like journals, funding agencies, and government bodies such as the CIA and DTRA. He contends that modern physics has become dominated by a protective clique within organizations like the National Academy of Sciences and the NSF that stifles innovation through departmental defense mechanisms rather than genuine scientific inquiry. This culture is fueled not just by jealousy over exposure but by an entrenched system where established academics act as trolls, hunting down those who descend into new ideas or challenge the status quo. He notes a disturbing trend at conventions where even top string theorists admit they do not fully know what String Theory is anymore, suggesting that the community has lost its way and is now engaged in theoretical retconning to save their reputation rather than advancing knowledge. The conversation shifts to an economic analogy involving relative value trades in investing, which Weinstein uses to describe his proposed solution for revitalizing basic research: shorting "Science TM" while going long on genuine science. He argues that the current system impoverishes the very people who provide societal safety and prosperity by denying them intellectual property rights over their discoveries, a situation he attributes partly to outdated legislation like the Mansfield Amendment which restricted military funding of basic research. Weinstein advocates for overturning such restrictions so physicists, mathematicians, and biologists can own their inventions, thereby incentivizing real innovation rather than bureaucratic protectionism. He believes that if these barriers were removed, theoretical physics could make fantastic progress within five years, but currently faces a lack of interest from investors who are wary of the hostile academic environment surrounding legitimate scientific endeavors. Ultimately, Weinstein concludes that the current state of science is indicative of a broader problem where anti-science sentiment has taken root in institutions and media outlets like *The Lancet*, *Nature*, and major publishing houses. He asserts that physics was once the tip of the spear for all sciences—giving rise to molecular biology, the internet via CERN, and semiconductors—but now faces a decline as other fields take precedence while physicists are marginalized by their own bureaucracy. Rather than engaging in endless debates over words or defending a dying paradigm with excuses like "it's not really String Theory," he calls for a reckoning where these theorists must face the people they have tormented and answer for forty years of destroying competitors. He envisions a future where genuine science is separated from its corrupt institutional handlers, allowing true innovation to flourish without the interference of lawyers, guns, and money that currently strangle progress in academia.
Read the full video transcript
this is Lawrence Krauss and Leonard
susin susin being one of the best
theoretical physicists ever no no why is
he somebody worth listening to
then um he's very very smart and he's
one of the most important string
theorists ever and he writes
exceptionally clear and correct
introductory books okay but he is not a
leading
physicist but is somebody at the
Forefront of string theory absolutely
and he said quote I can tell you with
absolute certainty string theory is not
the theory of the real world I can tell
you that 100% my strong feelings are
exactly that string theory is definitely
not the theory of the real world is that
taking it out of context is that him
framing it somewhere else or does that
encapsulate the fact that he thinks
string theory is a dead end that doesn't
describe the world he's playing a game
that I would I would say is logoi an
argument over words where he says that
big S string theory is not the theory of
the real world which is the theory that
was used to destroy all of its
competitors and that little sring Theory
exists I don't this is basically the
attempt uh to take a school massacre and
plead to a parking ticket and no I think
that the prosecution should decline the
offer uh from the good Dr susin and say
no no no you have 40 Years of the
destruction of your colleagues to answer
for you've chosen to be um words family
an uh to just about everyone who
came up with a competitor Theory and
I've dealt with Leonard directly he can
be Charming he's a great recck on tour
he's very brilliant and he chooses to be
a Wolf Gang poy without achievement he's
taken a massive advance on a future
career which he will never have at age
85 so this is a person who wishes you to
think of him as a leading physicist he
absolutely categorically by the
standards of physics known to our elders
is not and Leonard susin is playing a
game he's
saying you saw Kill Bill one of the
great romantic scenes of all time is
filmed between Beatrix kiddo and Bill at
the very end of the film he's absolutely
destroyed her life he's killed her
husband fiance the father of a child she
forced an abortion she's been raped
every indignity on Earth has been
suffered by this woman and in the end
she wants to know how could you do that
to me and what are his words
says I
overreacted and and you see in the film
if I recall correctly she leans
forward and she
says you you overreacted is that your
explanation like how can that be that my
life has been turned upside down and
your offering to me is I overreact
so these people and I and I want to
specifically call out the most
aggressive of them Lu luos modal meio
Kaku Leonard
susin uh Jeff Harvey Michael
Duff uh Andy strominger Kum and vafa
have been on a tear that nothing else
exists destroying 40 Years of
competitors and what does the bride say
to
Bill said you and I have un finished
business that's where we are right now
your explanation to me Eric Weinstein
is you overreacted lonard
Tes you and I have in unfinished
business what happens next oh that's
going to get
interesting you're watching the
beginning of the
collapse you're watching people running
for the exits we're not yet at the Lan
Brothers September 15 moment with AIG
looming in the background but right now
all of these guys are trying to plead to
oh well it's not String Theory proper we
meant ha we meant uh something related
to string theory yeah that's it you know
it's like that moment comically when
somebody is caught red-handed we're
we're in the middle of Shaggy It Wasn't
Me It's theoretical retconning
yeah and uh you know there there's this
beautiful offering that Hector makes to
Achilles we will give each other the
honor of a proper
burial Achilles isn't
interested let's do this thing what does
that
mean well hopefully somebody will come
up with some money to hold a conference
to get these people in the same room
with the people they've tormented whose
careers they've ended whose funds
they've
stolen The Stolen Valor of actual
achievements in real attempts to change
physics and wouldn't it be delicious and
fun to see Meo Kaku Ed Wht Lenny
suskin Michael Duff Jeff Harvey actually
have to face people who know what
they're talking about and have a
discussion of what did we just do for 40
years did we are we protecting the
American public from restricted data I
have no idea but I can tell you this
nobody in their right mind gives a
startup 40 Years of Runway with never a
call with
investors nor
a even a basic MVP most you know minimal
viable
product we've been playing weekend at
Biden's and now we're also
playing weekend at
Lenny's this is really funny
who else would
you
want to uh have a chat with the guys on
the string theory side of the
world well I think
uh I think Peter white would be fun he's
got two new theories again I don't agree
with either of them I have my own Theory
and I I'm happy to fight with Peter but
Peter and I have been friends for all
these years uh I would love to have Nema
Connie hemed and Ed Frankle and
others uh judge this people who aren't
really string theorists who
appreciate the best parts of string
inspired mathematics let's say or string
inspired mechanisms in physics there is
there is the the equations are not
without interest or
Merit it's
the the sociology should be hunted and
removed with extreme prejudice it's
anti-science
so I don't know much or anything really
about the inner workings of string
theory but Sabine hosenfeld has been on
the show Brian Green's been on the show
uh Sean caroll's been on the show oh
let's get them all of them
and I saw a tweet saying that somebody
had been to a string theory convention
and had asked the question what is
string theory and the best string
theorists on the planet came up with the
answer we kind of don't know what string
theory is and the other answer is
whatever it is that we're doing whatever
it is that the string theory Community
is doing even if they did something had
nothing to do with string theory they've
now tried to say how about this and I
don't know if you remember Maxwell Smart
and gets smart so he was a Comic version
of um James Bond an American bumbling
secret agent who somehow solved cases
and and and and stopped terrible plots
but always by making accidents and when
wherever he was caught he would say you
know I'm not worried because right now
we're surrounded by the Third Battalion
of the Marine Division s
said I don't believe
that would you believe 12 police
officers no Mr smart I don't believe
that either two Cub Scouts with
slingshots
so this is a this is a very old pattern
yeah is this too far gone for string
theory now is it the mask is beginning
to slip to the point where even Ed
dutton's going to have to eat his words
within the next decade they'll never eat
their words they'll just keep
lying lying is a way of life lying to
the public
as I me I think susin somewhere else in
this interview says something like we
have to keep interest in physics
High yeah look
science is
fine what we have now learned to call
the science
TM is an Abomination and one of the
things people don't learn about from
regular investing retail investing is
what's called relative value
trades uh people say oh I I'm bullish on
Tech I'm staying out of the tech Market
if you don't have the ability to go
short you don't know what a relative
value trade is relative value trade says
uh I think Microsoft uh has the right ID
over at open Ai and Google's geminy uh
has too much political encumberment so
I'm going to go long Microsoft and I'm
going to fund it by going short Google
and therefore whatever Tech does they'll
both go up or both go down as a SE
within the sector as the sector Rises
and Falls but you're betting on the
trade hedge kind of
exactly the right trade at the moment is
goong science because it's been beaten
up with its association with the science
TM so short the science TM long
science uh I think is the multi-billion
dollar trade for smart countries at the
moment and you have to hunt out the
science TM which lives inside of the
journals lives inside of the funding
agencies lives inside of the
departmental defense mechanisms lives
inside of the
CIA ditra all of these sorts of um blob
related um um agencies that get their
paws into science and by the way I I
absolutely want the military to pick up
the funding of basic research we have to
overturn something called the Mansfield
Amendment which a previous generation
was obsessed by and modern academicians
don't even know exists that was when the
military was funding basic research they
were our best friends they stayed out of
our hair they were just paying a
retainer so that they could call On Us
in times of
emergency and we stupidly gave away that
funding source and it's time to get it
back and it's probably time to allow
physicists mathematicians biologists
intellectual property rights over
basic research not just Technologies
because what right now what we're doing
is you're impoverishing the people who
provide your safety and your Prosperity
you're not letting them participate in
the very society that they're funding is
this indicative of a broader problem in
all of science is physics the tip of the
spear or is there anything further down
science used to be dominated by physics
and Mathematics in a certain sense after
the atomic weapons proved their metal
and then the physicists showed that they
could do things that nobody could
imagine for example molecular biology is
basically founded by physicists
worldwide web comes out of
CERN semiconductors come out of you know
Stanford the the actual silicon that was
in Silicon Valley
um
so then it became a biology Focus
so right now when you say science most
people think biology rather than in
previous years where most people thought
the physicist who could do
everything
uh we need
hearings and we need to basically rid
the National Academy of Sciences the
National Science Foundation the national
science board the national research
Council um the journals Lancet nature
science publishing houses of all of the
science we've got to get rid of the
science the science is infecting us we
need we need Lawyers Guns and Money and
it does seem like a fantastically
asymmetric trade you know I think I I
hear this all the time in the world of
trading look a limited downside and
unlimited upside I think we could make
fantastic progress with within
theoretical physics within five years
and I can promise you nobody's
interested in funding
it what does it mean me when
academicians go
after Harvard MIT is it academicians
though yeah it's oh it's trolls with
phds there's an entire community of
um trolls hunting people who descent
like I bet Saina hossenfelder has people
who are just sitting around trying to
destroy her yeah and the same was true
it's it's magnified I think not just by
The Descent but also by uh the
platform say more exposure people get
jealous of exposure and I don't think
it's that oh I think that it is very
very obvious that if somebody gets
attention and someone else feels that
it's undeserving in one form or another
that guy's a phony and look at all of
the whatever they get I think there's
some of that but I think to think that
that's what it is is mistaken not
entirely but I think that it's a a
really big uh leverage function on top
of it I don't think that's true right
now we have a country with no president
and we've moved on and what's Taylor
Swift
doing right so my claim is is that
anti-in once you understand what anti-
interesting
is
like ass assume that you actually wanted
just to humiliate people you'd give them
a talk if you can't play the piano mhm
um and I want to humiliate you because
you say you're a piano player Oh Way
I'll I'll get you a grand piano on a
stage in an
audience no no this isn't
that this is something really
interesting and because it's also it's
cheap it's free why don't we find out
whether somebody has something to
say I'm I'm telling you right now I
believe I can explain where the particle
Spectrum comes from I can explain the
origin of this is my claim uh the 16
particles that make up the first
generation of matter not coming from
particle theory but coming from general
relativity the most natural thing in the
world is to say that's a really bold
claim there's no known explanation for
the particle Spectrum in terms of
general relativity what is that guy
talking about let's get him in here
let's get him on video we'll humiliate
him this will be fun we'll take away his
audience never happens instead what it
is is that there's this constant sort of
whisper campaign against somebody like
Sabina OH she's a popularizer she's not
serious she she doesn't know her stuff
blah blah blah blah blah the they sold
out of uh pop pop musicians I like their
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