"This Trans Debate Is Delusional" - An Absurd Mindset Behind Gender Ideology? | Konstantin Kisin

Duration: 13:34 2376 transcript words EN summary

Video summary

In this discussion, Konstantin Kisin addresses a fundamental confusion in gender discourse regarding the distinction between biological sex and internal feelings of masculinity or femininity. He argues that society often conflates maleness with masculine behavior and femaleness with feminine presentation to facilitate conversation, but he maintains that these are separate categories. For instance, he notes having female friends who think and behave masculinely without ceasing to be biologically female; similarly, his wife exhibits a more aggressive, less emotionally expressive temperament yet remains unequivocally female in Kisin's view. He posits that feeling feminine does not automatically make a male person female, suggesting that the current debate becomes pointless when internal emotions are treated as determinants of biological sex rather than expressions within it. The core conflict arises from what Kisin identifies as "trans ideology," which he claims asserts that self-identification alone is sufficient to define one's gender and entitle them to all protections associated with women, regardless of biology. He illustrates this by describing the activist stance: if an individual feels female and declares themselves a woman, they are entitled to use women's restrooms, compete in female sports, be housed in female prisons, and receive societal treatment reserved for females. Kisin finds this claim outrageous because he views it as asserting that self-identification magically alters biological reality—essentially claiming one has become female simply by uttering the phrase "I am a woman," thereby overriding physical characteristics like genitalia with internal feelings alone. Kisin attempts to find common ground by acknowledging these claims while introducing his own framework of categorization and human malleability, or what he calls "nudgeability." He argues that humans are indeed shapeable; for example, his wife has influenced him over time to become more masculine in demeanor through social reinforcement and sexual attention. However, he warns against pushing individuals too far along a spectrum without acknowledging the limits of this influence. To illustrate these dangers, he references the controversial case of John Money, who attempted to raise biological males as girls after an accident removed their penises, only for both children to eventually commit suicide despite being raised in female environments. Kisin uses this tragic example to suggest that while people can be nudged toward certain behaviors or identities, there are hard limits and severe consequences when trying to force a complete reclassification of sex based solely on upbringing or feeling. Ultimately, the conversation concludes with a call for intellectual honesty regarding how we categorize human beings and the second- and third-order consequences of those classifications. Kisin expresses frustration that trans activists refuse to create a category for individuals who align both their physical biology and their internal feelings, instead labeling anyone holding such views as "sexists." He advocates for maintaining clear distinctions between biological sex (male/female) and gender expression or temperament (masculine/feminine), arguing that history provides reasonable precedents for these categories. While he admits to being open to new terminology if it avoids co-opting established concepts, his primary goal is a productive dialogue that respects the reality of biology while acknowledging human complexity without leading to disastrous outcomes like those seen in extreme gender reassignment experiments.

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We deliberately confuse maleness with masculinity and femaleness with femininity in order to be more comfortable having a conversation. I actually don't. That isn't my hang-up because for me male female is easy. Right. It's when somebody is using male female as monikers for feeling masculine or feeling feminine that this gets all tangled up. Well, this is what I'm saying. These thing I have female friends who are very masculine in terms of how they think and behave. I have a female wife that's like that. So, I know exactly what you mean. Now, does that make her less female? No. So, in other words, how you feel and whether you feel masculine or feminine is not a determinant of whether you're male or female. Correct. Therefore, feeling female does not make a male female. Correct. Therefore, this whole conversation is pointless. False. That's where I would say that it is deranging as I watch very smart people either act as if they can't see the difference in what people are saying because what we need is just another word for the way that I feel. So, I map my internal emotions onto the standard human with vagina, right? Hold on. The claim that the trans ideology makes and trans activists make is that if I say the words I am a woman, I am now female. That is the claim. So, I may be arguing for the wrong thing. And so, if they're saying that saying it means that you suddenly have a vagina, self-identification means. I identify as a woman means I feel feminine, therefore the fact that I have a penis doesn't matter because my feelings overrule the biological reality. Is that really what you're are and I'm there But hold on, how do they explain the penis? With a female penis. Okay, so With a female penis. Great. Suck it. That's what they want. Suck the female penis. There. Now I will say that that that's what I'm getting at is we we have to do I had to do that. No, it's too funny. Too funny to to pass up as a fan of comedy. I'm here for it. Uh but that that begs the point that I'm trying to make, which is we have to differentiate between this human is male female Mhm. which I think because for all of human history, that's what we've called it. Let's just stick with that. And so we need a new thing that's like I feel like I believe I have the internal brain structure. That's probably very misleading cuz like it scan your brain to see if it's not true. I have the internal feelings brain makeup because it will be it will be I think hypothesis hypothesis. Much better to say I feel. Then you Well, we're going to get to the I feel part, but I have a feeling that the I feel part is nudged by that 20-sided dice. That some people, were we able to truly just map all the confluence of things that make you feel masculine feminine just like my wife, there's something about her from the time she was a little kid, she was tomboyish. Mhm. So it's like she's got a thing that just like predisposes her to being a little bit aggressive, um not being as emotional. I know some people are going to freak out about that, but my wife is very um not as emotionally sober as me, which she will be the first to tell you, but way more emotionally sober than um somebody else uh that falls more typically on the feminine spectrum. Jesus, this is why we need words for this. So Well, this is why simplicity solves this. You are I don't think it does. It does It really, really does. listen. Okay. Look, maybe I'm not letting you talk, but let's come back to the female penis. you so much. Talking to you about this is amazing. You've given me all the space. I just want to make sure that I understand where you're coming from. So, the trans ideology claim, the trans activist claim, is that self-identification is how you know whether someone is female or male. Self-identification means abracadabra Stacy. Having uttered the incantation, I am a woman, I become Stacy. Okay? Yes. And therefore, I am entitled to be treated in our society the way a woman is treated. I am entitled to be housed in a female prison. I am entitled to go into a female changing room. I am entitled to compete in female sports. I am entitled to be treated as a woman because I am a woman. That is completely outrageous and unacceptable. If the claim were I am male, but I feel that I have a set of behaviors that our society conventionally associates with females, and I therefore wish to wear a dress, wish to have my hair long, wish to wear makeup, wish to paint my fingernails, wish to change the way I speak, wish to dress in a way that most women do. Cool. Go do it. Be you. But the moment you make the claim that you are a woman, you are making a claim A, a truth claim that isn't true, and B, a claim that entitles you to the certain protections that we've allocated to women in our society, which you're not entitled to by virtue of the fact that you're not female. Does that Does that work as a starting basis for this conversation? It works as a starting basis for this conversation. I'm going to steel man everything you said because that is, as I understand it and I think that there is a thing a demarcation point that we have to draw that I think ultimately I won't prognosticate about where we end up. So I'm going to steal man the argument let me know if I missed anything. So a trans activist would say that the thing that makes me male or female is the way that I feel and if I regardless of whether I have the genitalia of a male if I feel female and I say that I'm female then I I am a woman. If I feel like a woman and I say I'm a woman I am a woman. And therefore you should treat me and give me all the protections that a woman would get. So spaces that are reserved for women I should have access to that. Prisons that are reserved for women I should have access to that. Sports I should be able to play in sports and compete against other females. Have I understood the argument? Yes. Okay. So operating from that and I will say I'm I'm talking to everybody now. Like hey everybody that wants to have this conversation there is a conversation to be had but you really have to begin to break these things apart. Now given what you just said I think there's going to be a bone of contention. Here here's how I feel that on the trans activist side there is a refusal mm They they've created a category maybe. So what I was going to say is from the trans activist side there's a refusal to create a category for people that are in alignment both with the physical sex of their body and their feelings. No they call those sexists. Yes. Yes so that's why I stopped myself. Um So what I had They're they're perhaps not being intellectually honest about how we need to categorize things. So let me walk through this. The the way that I would want to have a productive conversation is um everything in its category so that we may then talk honestly about the consequences, the second and third order consequences of these categorizations. So, um one I'm introducing a a new thing to the argument cuz even if I'm willing to adopt cis, which I'm not, there's something about that that makes me feel manipulated because you're trying to co-opt something that's existed for so long. I'm totally cool for introducing a new category. There's something that I haven't thought through about why I don't like the co-opting of something old that feels um sleight of hand. So, I'm going to set that aside for a second. Uh so, I'm introducing a new idea to this discussion or trying to, which is that um I think that there is there is something to be said about being nudged and there's a malleability in here and if we're not being honest about the malleability, we won't understand why it's important to get the categorization right. Because I'm saying that there is a uh once we once we say, "Okay, the the biology's pretty clear. You're either male or female." And yeah, look some things in the margins, pretty fascinating, but so marginal for people that have both a penis and a vagina, which does happen. Crazy, but true. Um setting that aside for a second. Everything about the brain does feel like it's A hyper fragmented and B that everything's a spectrum, which is why I have always considered myself to have a slightly more feminine temperament. My wife has a slightly more masculine temperament and that is one of the reasons that our marriage is so good and when I give marriage advice to people, I always feel a little bad cuz I'm like, "Well, if your wife is hyper feminine and you're hyper masculine, this is all going to be a [ __ ] nightmare and good luck because you guys one of you really is from Mars and the other really is from [ __ ] Venus and you're alien species and god damn, you can raise kids, but holy hell, like the two of you trying to like really um be each other's soulmates and get all the things that I'm telling you you're going to get, probably not so much. Don't know. That's been exactly my experience. Yes, but are you hyper-masculine? Yeah. Okay, cool. Then it can work out. calling out my masculinity right on camera. Unbelievable. have an internal definition of hyper-masculine of the Jocko Willink is hyper-masculine. Yeah, but And if he's able to do it, then word. Being masculine isn't about having muscles, but anyway. It's not. Can we agree that there is a category of human that I call a pub brawler in the UK, and you can take one look at that [ __ ] and be like, "Oh, I know a lot about you based on the shape of your head?" Yes. Okay. So, I'm just saying there really are things that manifest physically that like You've defined masculinity in a very narrow way. I haven't defined masculinity. I've not made any attempt to define masculinity yet. Okay. Sorry. Other than I have previously said "No, I know." If viewers are having as much fun listening as I am talking, we'll keep going. Cool. Uh okay, so I'm trying to introduce this idea of nudgeability. We are malleable. We are We are shapeable. You can sway somebody. My wife has made me more masculine over time because she's actually more into that. She probably takes for granted the part of me that's hyper-communicative and in touch with my emotions and able to admit my insecurities. She probably just takes it for granted. But honestly, there was a time in our relationship where she straight up said to me, "Your insecurities aren't sexy." And I quote. And I was like, "Oh, goddamn." So, I realized A, that's true. I need to [ __ ] toughen up here, deal with my insecurities, be a bit more manly. And she was way more into that, which she rewarded then with sexual attention. I'm [ __ ] nudgeable. Like you can encourage me in directions. So, anyway, I want nudgeability, malleability, shapeability in here. So, that then we have to ask questions, what direction are we going to nudge people? Because you're going to nudge people whether you mean to or not. And seeing celebrities dress their boys up in dresses, you're nudging them whether you mean to or not. You're nudging, you're shoving them. So, but hey, blue and trucks and all that, one could argue, is not nudging is shoving. Whatever. But let's have that on the table. Okay, so if we are somewhat malleable, but trying to push somebody all the way in a direction ends in [ __ ] disaster. I forget the kid's name, the set of twins born, circumcised, the circumcision machine burns his penis off. Uh I think his name was David or his code name was David. Yes. Do you remember the John Money's the guy who did it. thank you. And so he said, "Oh, doesn't matter, blank slate, raise him as a as your daughter, it's going to be fine, he'll never know." And of course ends up committing suicide. His brother commits suicide. [ __ ] crazy. John Money was a pedophile. Lovely. Uh if that's written and taken out of context, I'm kidding. That's Uh there are limits to how far we can nudge them. We need we need the categories, we need to understand where people are going to fall so that we are we are very open and honest about, yeah, you can push people in a direction. There will be second and third order consequences. You need to really be thoughtful about what that is. And when in doubt, I would say looking at history to find a way of something that has worked, not perfectly, but reasonably well, uh would be probably the place to start with that. I'm going to pause there. Now that I've finished. Let me say a couple of things at this juncture. I love you. I really look up to you. I learn a hell of a lot from you. I really admire you. And I have no [ __ ] idea what you're talking about. Okay. If you like that clip, check out the full powerful episode here and I'll see you there.