“This Keeps You POOR!” Caleb Hammer Reveals The WORST Money Traps To Avoid In 2025

it only takes a couple things to be successful what are those things why'd you get into the debt in the first place I bought a car for no reason no you really become the Gordon Ramsay of personal finance why'd you get laid off uh you scared all the dogs with your laugh that wasn't very nice that makes sense what do you find to be the common thing keeping most people broke it's only five bucks though 5% interest yes a lot of people don't understand how interest actually works why you guys have so many cars and there's $2,000 hour of Disneyland tickets after that another ticket what is happening anytime anyone just sits and it's just like they won't take responsibility for literally one thing that pisses me off no no no no objectively no first document right here and what I always try to tell people when they're not willing to change on the show I'm just like okay go do it I don't care but I'm having the conversation of here's what you should do to actually get your finances in order is it true you're really going to quit [Music] YouTube Caleb thank you so much for coming on the iced coffee hour really appreciate it thanks guys welcome back to Austin I always love having my dudes in town thank you we always have a lot of fun and it's interesting because over the last year you really become the Gordon Ramsay of personal finance sure and I'm curious what guest have you had on that's made you the most upset hav the Taquito man himself back Britton Davey coming on trying to pretend like the whole thing is a victim complex everything that all the choices that he's making anytime anyone just sits and it's just like they won't take responsibility for literally one thing everything is against them and they have no control which is his ultimate mindset and everything that pisses me off and that's what pissed me off about him people can insult me all day people can insult me all day and he tried he tried people tried but uh that's what upsets me when people just refuse to take at least one oun of responsibility now I'm curious what is outside of someone's control that you think when they say that okay you know what this person does have a point yeah absolutely I mean mental health things is a huge thing right so there are some mental health things of course that's where you're like okay well what should I do I should probably go see someone you know I should probably you know see an expert talk to people around me try to surround myself with a good Community but that's something you might not have control over you know maybe you don't have a good family you know we did have one person that was raised in the OR in orphanage Community um I guess there's no no parent and they they were never adopted and they kind of just got dropped off in a town at 18 so that was that was he was on his own from there and that he didn't have control over he didn't have control if he was going to get adopted or if he was raised by loving parents so he didn't really he doesn't have that Community but you know we live in the world where if that happens whatever you're dealt with that is kind of what you have to deal with and then what you choose to do from there is still kind of up to you but obviously we should uh support each other and help each other and that's what we try to do for him and we've connected him to resources and uh we're in his Corner whenever he has any questions um yeah so being raised of course there's been some people that have had family trauma everything childhood relat related I feel like is like that's what's beyond control um obviously natural disaster stuff that feels like beyond your control but also make sure you have the right insurances like there are some things you can do more in adulthood that helps alleviate some of the things you can't control necessarily if your company fails and you get laid off but you can control if you had an emergency fund before that you can't control if your pet gets sick but you can control if you have pet insurance so it's more how people are raised and whether or not they have a community and obviously there's some addiction things where it's like yes you you see someone who has addiction and you're like oh just go get help it's obviously more complicated than that so that I mean that's just a little extra handholding a little extra support we had one person who was addicted to uh drugs of the crystal variant and you know ended up going to rehab and we've been uh in touch with him helping him and we got him set up well actually there's a promise if he was like clean for a few months you know we'd give him some money to help pay off some of the debt and we did that that's cool yeah so yeah you know but obviously it's still more difficult to get out of an addiction thing than just pay off some debt so but he still had the control to go to rehab and he made that decision yeah and what are some of the worst things you've seen people do with their money well I've definitely seen people up their relationships by purchasing only fans that's been interesting it's the relationship ending things where it's just like why would you do this first of all how does that come up in an audit do they not hide this in their bank statements or they go in knowing that like I'm paying for only fans and my wife is here and you're going to call me out on this what are they thinking I think we've had a couple guests now that uh they confess to their wife usually because it's the dude that's getting it they confess to their wife on the drive over here they're like this is going to come up in the finances I need to tell you and yeah that's dumb we definitely had uh one wife they're they all use fake names so I don't remember anyone's name but she she was she was visibly upset that the dude I was call like only fans only fans only fans only fans the episode we just uploaded today and post show now that this is you know kind of distant to the post show dude and his friends collectively put hundreds of dollars together so that they can subscribe to only fans gram you need to get some friends like that save you some money that's that's the that's the way to do I didn't realize I could even do that yeah that's incredible wait wait so wait explain this so his buddies were pulling money together to do it through him or what was it no so they could all use one account and subscribe people would rather instead of individually having subscribe grou right now of why would you rather go ad sacrifice and when she found that out really bad for them now they say he's clean however again this just got uploaded today people are reading into the episode and I do not want to make an accusation but just reading the comments he claims that he has to go to a store and buy a new charger a phone charger cuz he works on the road three times a week which blew everyone's mind we didn't understand so was it was it visas or something that he's buying maybe to continue that potential addiction is it an addiction at that point or is it just like he has a he he just enjoys three times a week hiding it from the wife not I'm not accusing him of doing that it is still don't understand the breaking multiple Chargers a week though so he was saying on the show that it was you know Char charers I feel like that's I hate to say it maybe I'm going to get hat I feel like that's an easy cop out when your wife finds out and be like no sorry I have addiction cuz then it's like now it's not you anymore it's like hey I'm consumed by this addiction and that and that kind of alleviates some of the concern with the wife some of the the ri it's really hard to tell and I'm sure you've had plenty of experiences and we're going to go into it between people actually should they be taking responsibility for the things that happened to them or should they they not be you know what I mean like are they a victim or are they just someone who lacks discipline that's a very very hard line to draw a lot of the people they've just never been called out in their life you can tell they just haven't really been called out so they hear that push back for the first time someone really giving them just like no [ __ ] this is what I think in kind of my more brutalistic way because I know you know I my special way with words um and you can see that their immediate instant cope mechanism is well it's because of this I was never Tau this here's you know everything's against me and all stuff but you can see that start to fade away as we record for like an hour and a half it starts to fade way and you see a little more acceptance you see a little more emotion in their face as they really start we go the document document document almost everyone almost everyone I talk to after we stopped recording is says that was worse than I thought they come in thinking it was better than it really was and they you can see that in their face throughout the episode I don't know if that's reflected on camera but when I'm sitting here how how many audits have you film now dude I have no idea we try to film four to five a week so are do you think you're in probably the mid hundreds at this point yeah okay so after auditing the finances of hundreds of people what do you find to be the common thing keeping most people broke a lot of people don't understand how interest actually works on their credit cards and even when they do kind of understand it since a lot of people they always say oh but I didn't look at it you know I don't want to look at it because it's too scary it's it's easier to just you know let it be and not think about it they don't know like I call their interest rate out and I'm like this is 30% they're like I thought this was 12% do they even know the difference at that point at that point they do understand most of them at least understand that difference once they at least understand interest everyone's wrong have to explain interest and that's okay uh but that's definitely the common threat I see throughout is a lot of people want to bury their head in the sand because it just gets so scary so they just bury but then it gets worse then it ends in the situation where there's been a few guests this year where I don't see anything but bankruptcy being the only option and you know those people specifically were I can't figure out anything on the basic level I we set them up with a financial advisor that we partner with well that is definitely the common threat is they just put their head in the sand they're scared and it just ends up getting worse then they have no idea how bad the debt even is and not even that they they put their head in the sand so much that they will sit here and they'll say oh you'll be happy to know that I didn't purchase on that credit card and it's been like six months since I purchased on the credit card I open it there's like five subscriptions renewing they have no idea and are those people are any of those people that you it that are in really bad financial situations also the type of person to skimp out on small purchases I feel like you can really draw a line between two kinds of people the people that are very disciplined with like the small things I'm not going to go get a coffee I'm gonna not get avocado I'm not going to get bacon because it's adding a few dollars and then the other people that are like ah it doesn't matter it doesn't matter do you see a Common Thread there where like you really don't see that archetype of human that saves on those small things to be really in financial Strife I don't see anyone that doesn't get the small purchases I feel like our show always has has the small purchases and they always think that they're getting they're going out to eat like once twice a week and then I show them that they get a coffee in the morning and then a you know a vending machine during the day and then a dinner at night almost every day so it's just the they think they're not making small purchases but they do well when are small purchases okay because I saw some hate that you got maybe about a month or two ago guess Spotify was it that yeah I think it actually it was you told someone not to do the Spotify when they said listen it's like $9 a month $1 a month it's like the only I enjoy you're like no you need to cut everything you you have no room for enjoyment yeah looking back do you think that maybe there was some room for enjoyment or no like it's an all or nothing I give people uh it's not all or nothing I give people all the time uh some room I gave the the episode we recorded today I gave her 20 bucks a month for subscriptions there are people that I do give room on when they have room when people are literally going to potentially get evicted from an apartment because they only have $50 left after I give them the most conservative budget they have $50 left on a monthly basis I think they can listen asss now I mean do I care if someone gets Spotify specifically no it just becomes an example throughout where it's like hey we can sacrifice something it's not about it's not about Spotify it's about the example of we can sacrifice if they want to keep Spotify they can keep Spotify I think your point that I actually agreed with was that they could get Spotify with the ads yeah just listen to the ads or just YouTube YouTube has everything that Spotify already I do YouTube apparently the ads are a lot worse on Spotify the features un premium apparently you can't even like skip a lot of songs anymore things apparently free Spotify is pretty shitty but again it's never been about Spotify and the reason why we kind of made Spotify kind of like almost a meme to always call out is because people would were good with me telling them to cut back and the moment they heard Spotify they would always perk up and almost be offended that it seems like the simplest of thing that people should be able to afford oh it's just listening to music it's it's not even like television it's just audible it's auditory so I feel like really coming after that like attacking what people like think is like a basic human necessity but it's also cheap when you think of over the course of a month if like if you're not getting much enjoyment anywhere else in life but Spotify but it's more expensive if you're paying interest on that because you're not paying it off and you're putting it on a credit card even paying 50% interest on $12 a month like isn't that bad in the big picture like if they work an extra hour at their job but but I think you would also probably agree with the sentiment that it's not necessarily about the $9.99 and the 50% of that but it's the string of action that follow whole mentality of the $99 oh it's not a big deal oh the $3 Starbucks is not a big deal oh this isn't a big deal but it adds up and that that's why I push back on that's why I find it really interesting that you rarely ever see people struggling that are the type to skip out on those small little purchases that's very interesting no we don't get those people cuz we only have people on that are struggling and we never have the people who are trying to be frugal on small small purchases what have you noticed about human nature not only auditing the finances of hundreds of people but also just talking to 500 people that open up to you yeah definitely some sense of entitlement and I hate saying that word because a lot of it gets politically charged you know when you hear the word entitlement in our culture it's you know politically charged but a lot of people think that they had a hard day at work they're entitled to pick up the meal and sure they can do it and what I always try to tell people when they're not willing to change it on the show I'm just like okay go do it I don't care go do it but I'm having the conversation of oh here's what you should do to actually get your finances in order but a lot of people they really they had a tired day of work oh you know maybe make it even more complicated with a little extra School make it even more complicated by having some kids and it say they deserve the sweet treat all that stuff and I want them to get the sweet treat I want them to spend 30% of their money on their sweet treat once they're out of debt and have a fully funded emergency fund but I there's I've picked up on a lot of that entitlement thinking that it's more of a deserve than a let's just put in a little bit of sacrifice and then let's get all the sweet treats you want so lot yeah lots of where does that come from Total guess but just based on how I grew up and based on the culture and probably the consumerism culture you know we our median household income in the United States is or GDP per capita is double in the United Kingdom so it's like we have that extra money money more typically than those other countries that just go blow it on things we see the commercials we got everything it's in our culture you get the McDonald's cuz you want the ice cream you know you get it it's a nice day out this is the extra little things should have that yearly trip somewhere and you know what here's the thing if there's one thing I can't stand it's wasting money and we've all done it we've signed up for subscriptions or things we don't need we forget about it and then all of a sudden it starts charging you every single month and you're just wasting it without even realizing it that is when I started using our sponsor rocket money they allow me to see all my subscriptions in one place cancel the ones I don't want to use anymore and keep a lot more money back in my pocket at the end of every month for those that don't know rocket money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions monitors your spending and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings inside rocket money's dashboard you can track all of your spending create personalized budgets and even get alerts if your bills go up or if there's unusual activity rocket money will even try to negotiate bills for you they could automatically scan your bills to find Opportunities to save and then you could ask them to negotiate them down on your behalf they'll deal with all the customer service back and forth in hassle so that that way you don't have to and guys this sounds crazy but rocket money has over 5 million users and they've saved over $500 million in canceling people's unwanted subscriptions saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the apps premium features so don't wait to cancel your unwanted subscrip subcriptions today and reach your financial goals faster with rocket money all you got to do is go to Rocket money.com today seriously guys I use rocket money I love it I recommend it to everybody they save so much money it's like a beautiful dashboard they organize your finances I couldn't recommend it more try it out with the link Down Below in the description rocket money.com thank you so much to Rocket money for sponsoring this episode back to the podcast I feel really bad saying this I genuinely do but it's just my honest it's my honest thoughts so obviously you know when we have a guest on the show we researched them a lot so I was watching a ton of your videos I'd seen a lot in the past but I'm just like I I would say re rewatching a lot of stuff um and I noticed I kept getting very honestly kind of upset like a little bit angry because a lot of the guests like I would not it would be rare for me to feel sympathy for them and I know this sounds awful to say because these are people in bad situations they're struggling financially they're not coming from a good spot but it seems like similar to what you said it's like oh because this oh because this because this because this and I'm thinking like is there no sense of personal responsibility for how far did you make it in the episodes I'm curious I mean your episodes are long now like an hour and a half so I probably watched six episodes all the way through all the way through did you see towards the end though I feel this doesn't happen for all of them but a lot of them that I see these days they really start with that because again they've never been pushed back on also they've never been on camera they're literally random people off you know they're in the audience typically I do notice a small resolve at the end after being bered you know for like an hour well it's cuz again they've never had it they also just we do story times and stuff and you know to get more context on their life but once you start getting halfway through the document pile it really starts to set on them how bad it is worse than they thought it was and we can see it after the show and then we film The Post show and that's an extra 20 minutes and you can just see they're just like oh I can't believe how bad that was I had no idea so would you find yourself being sympathetic towards the guests that you have sometimes on your show or what's the general how do you feel about it yeah well definitely more sympathy towards the uh the uncontrollables that we talked about un absolutely lots of definitely sympathy towards them and then you know usually we give them an extra helping hand um but sympathy of I can't get Chick-fil-A after work um a little less usually when someone has when people have kids and they have to cut back on on on you know special things for the kids just temporarily that's definitely where I feel you know more of a heart on that but when it's just a single person just trying to really grind it out for like a year that's hard for me to actually I have less sympathy when um we get to the end we make a budget and they have thousands left over I'm like this is just the there's no reason to be in this kind of debt you could literally fix this in a few months and we recorded like four of those in a row a few weeks ago and I was just like I had no sympathy at the end I like dude just [ __ ] do this this is the dumbest thing in the world that you're not doing how long does it take to break through to people and what do you have to do to get to that point I start to see it at about 45 minutes 45 minutes into the episode anything you're doing in particular or it's just like you got to like keep like chipping away chipping away and then 45 minutes and they break down that that's that seems to be the philosophy we you know you find the things to relate to them I I learn more things about their family more things about their personal life and you can start relating things to it and the consequences of their actions and who they might be affecting if I learn they have a kid you know I demonstrate that older kid's going to feel morally obligated to take care of them at some point if they don't actually get their [ __ ] together now cuz I don't think any of us would let our parents literally become homeless you know if they don't have retirement but we didn't choose to come to the world either so I was like why put that on your kids so I find something to relate it to and then yeah chipping away and usually about 45 minutes in we most of the way through the documents and that's where the numbers really start to stack so that it's just I think it's just all that becomes a little overwhelming good overwhelming hopefully and you starts to see some emotion and they even get quieter in that moment usually and um yeah that's when they start to be more receptive to things so what are the items that are keeping people poor the most that you notice definitely car loans big car loans on the show uh some of our you know biggest moments are big trucks big American manly trucks or someone you know they have their Ford F50 yeah uh at a you know seveny year 8year loan 25% so that they can pick up groceries saw video and this is real this guy got a Lamborghini guyardo and he went through his expenses on like here's how much it costs to buy a Lamborghini gardo great car by the way like fantastic for resale value uh I believe he put almost no money down but he got 140 Monon car loan on this 12 years it's about 12 years and I was thinking like the average auto loan rate for a used car that's that old because these cars were built from like 2004 to like I think it was like 2012 something like that give or take uh but for used cars over 4 years old the interest rates have to be minimum 7% like at the lowest and I was doing like some backwards calculations to figure out like how much he's paying an interest over this 12 like it makes no sense but I want to get that guy in the show but he has the car he the the thing is it's he seemed like a really bright smart guy okay that was the one thing that maybe he got a super good rate somehow though there's no way you're getting a better than 6% on 12 month it's impossible yeah that's crazy should get him on that would be interesting I always wondered it would be kind of cool rather than people that apply to go on the show like you just go on the street and just like go up to someone working at a McDonald's job or something like that and just approach them that's so hard because that's a little bit more true I feel like yeah well I mean that would be I mean it is all true but it's just I don't know because people get on such a big this is It's the there is a bit of a moral dilemma uh we want to make sure that the people coming on the amount of onboarding they come on before coming on the show but we couldn't do that with someone on the street you know right so but it makes sense uh for you not going up to random people just given the audience size at this point where do you where do you draw the line between people who think that you exploit poor people versus offering true criticism and helping them with tough love with the amount of times that we have on phone calls with them uh a onboarding video that's sent to them before they come on an onboarding video they're forced to watch and the green room before they come on the amount of stuff we say hey dude you're about to get [ __ ] on in front of a bunch of people don't do this if you don't want to do it we are we won't be offended don't do it tell us now they get that chance like five times before they ever come on and that's why we actually have a lot of people cancel right before which is okay what you say cancels we put four on the calendar we could say one cancels one to two a week yeah so how many people apply towards how many people actually get on the show now we get a lot more applications cuz we're targeting our audience on Tik Tok and meta yeah so but that's specifically targeted our audience still and um now we have a lot more applications I don't know we're getting close 100 applications a day I don't know wow I don't know a lot of people want to come on the yeah um I think a majority of it is kind of just jerking thems off a little a lot of people want to come on they want to talk about their multi-million dollar portfolio or something but uh it's a pry pretty limited selection if we were like Lindsay could have pretty much anyone with that come on but that would get we already have kind of relatively repetitive show it would get Uber repetitive we just let anyone and anyone and anyone on so we want to make sure we at least get interesting stories and you know more diverse selections of what is happening how do you know what to pick for to not become repetitive well that's why I heard heard Lindsay she's she's a beast uh her and J and eventually one our new Junior producer as well um they just have so many conversations with them so many conversations going through their life and just trying to understand them and you know see see where their head space is at see what their opinions on things are and just making sure that it's not someone on coming on who just spends at McDonald's and that's their only thing you know yeah so you know I put it in their hands and I trust them and they've been delivering and how do you verify all the information that they say is accurate statements um the financially it's in their statements and they send Credit Karma screenshots as well so that for sure life things it's a little hard to tell we definitely get one side of this of the story and you know I've got in trouble a couple times for that uh where it's like you know someone will tell a big trauma dump or something which is very fair go ahead um but I'm like I you know instinctively play devil's advocate of well we're not hearing the other side so I just want to be a little cautious but then you know it's almost like am I denying someone's experience you know that's kind of what I heard a few times so I don't know it's a little difficult but we can't verify that stuff's true 100% that's fair that gets dicey on the top of credit cards do you think the average person uses them appropriately or would you say for the most part it's just a bad the average person yeah oh dude I don't know the statistics around this but well I guess we know the median balances in the thousands right so I'm sure the average person the the average credit card debt right now I think is like $6,000 like $6,600 the average person average so is that the average credit card debt and then you put that per so you assign divide by 330 million or whatever well not everyone has a credit card the average person with a credit the average person with a credit card has a balance of I believe it was $6,600 I did a video similar to this about like the American debt the savings rate is 3% right now the for the average American 3% and if they're making $65,000 a year they're they're saving like two grand a year and they have a credit card balance of 6600 there's no way to pay it off you physically can't you know it just doesn't work do you think then that it could be irresponsible to advocate for credit cards uh for something that generally is bad I don't know man that's kind of the same thing is just like you know someone could get addicted to that coffee right there you know I don't drink but I don't care if people drink like someone could get addicted to it I don't know that's why I always just say use credit cards only if you're a credit card person if you can demonstrate that you can budget and pay your bills correctly for at least a quarter then maybe give yourself like an credit card right you really got to do it safely it's a tool but just like any other tool in construction dude you can get your head caved in so just got to be safe I don't like super advocate for credit cards I wouldn't say either I'm not like I'm not even dude if you looked at my wallet you'd be so bored as like a credit card person I'm like nothing I got like just a couple credit cards that make sense a business credit it's just like I'm not a super big Advocate I like them because I can utilize them and I like to finesse a little but I'm not like go get a credit card go get a credit card go get a but credit scores I know I know our boy Dave isn't he doesn't think credit scores are the biggest thing in the world but no underw writing you really got to find like the right Institution for that it definitely becomes less convenient especially for apartment hunting so I mean then again maybe I am advocating for smart credit card usage and training from parents to kids so that they can build a good credit so when they go to at leas their own place without any roommates or co-signers or whatever that they're able to get it so you know what they're going to do at some pointz I have a feeling that credit card usage and interest rates are going to are going to be an issue over the next probably 10 years in terms of like Congress and senators and they're going to look into this I have a feeling at some point they're going to mandate credit card companies require a test before you get the credit card and just basic like is a 24% interest rate when you have $1,000 debt what is that you have to like select the dollar amount or like is your credit going to take a hit if you don't pay it off after 30 days like all these questions and if you answer like five questions correctly like basic beginner level question questions then you get the credit card because they do that with stock trading when you sign up for Robin Hood options you have to answer a few stupid basic questions that a monkey could answer but they're questions at least it's Robin Hood hey we did our job we did something I think a credit card should do that if people are taking out loans I remember the one she uh that you had on your show didn't understand what the credit card interest rate was and thought that was her limit or there was like a weird one like that right yeah probably she just like didn't understand what it what it was like the 20% she's like oh I thought this is like how much I could spend a lot of them they think their 2% cash back is beating their 30% interest so like yeah for the average viewer out there that's trying to improve their finances what are some things that you would just generally recommend for for them to be in a better Financial spot just to start with just the basic budget literally any budgeting app I have some preferences but literally any budget app I have an extra preference towards simpler budget because you just got to do the simple things that's what a lot of people fail on is a lot of people try to get the crazy spreadsheet a lot of people try to get the You Know download the you need a budget and then it's like a trillion billion things literally just the basic start of setting up the budget understanding just what your even income is people can't even answer the damn income question sometimes and then just understanding what's going out I when they it always blows their mind when I tell them how much they're spending versus how much is coming in they have no idea so literally just creating that simpler budget that's why I made the simpler budget app for the basics people just getting started want to change their life take control from the first time it's just that basic thing dude starting with the budget from there then it's just the foundations right what are the goals you're trying to hit got to get that emergency fund or we trying to pay off high interest debt you know what's our life situation looking like at that time do we need to make sure we have a little extra cushion before paying off that debt cuz we have kids you go from there but you to start with the budget people just don't know how much money's going in and out I remember back in college I did this where I created a mock budget for a fake family that lives it's a it was a husband and wife or boyfriend girlfriend whatever two two people and they had a child and they were affording a car gas I allocated a budget towards rent towards X and I found an actual place everything even um child care I got the average health care cost I got food budget costs from the Census uh everything and they were able to still save it was like $5,000 a year which is a prettyy substantial amount and that's not accounting for any growth in income just working standard hours and I remember I got in college when I did this presentation so many people were like giving me backlash from this but it's so weird it's like am I then supposed to instead say oh if this is your situation you're screwed there's nothing you can do yeah I know you know what I mean it's like okay well if you do the right things then good things will happen but the only other thing the thing that people want you to say is that oh there's nothing you can do you're screwed I mean that's definitely easier it's to put the head in the sand it's easier to assume that everything's doomed and gloomed why work why make it why put an effort why I sacrifice live uncomfortably for a second um I mean there are real situations to acknowledge of you know like I've had a few people that live in pretty shitty situations and like [ __ ] I don't know if they can afford to get out of there I think it's also important for people to probably know their rights as tenants as well like I had someone I think it was the person I was talking about earlier that uh where they were an orphan uh their entire life they live in a place where like you literally can't stand in the shower cuz you fall through like you got to know you need to know your rights and just talk you try to get connect we actually I think we sent them links to Pro Bonos wow people that would be interested in pro bono work you know in that space so it's important for people to know their rights as well if they're if if they are getting [ __ ] because people do get there are situations that are [ __ ] just know your rights there's laws in place for a reason so a lot of people just don't know what do you think about cash stuffing and envelopes for some people they need that little extra help they if it's digital they can't track it for me I can't track it if it's cash I need the digital number if a dollar goes down on my bank account I'm like but if a dollar goes out physically I'm it doesn't exist but yeah some people like if it's digital they have no control so envelope systems been recommended a few times on the show quite a few times but what do you say to the people who want to get a side hustle how often is it actually worth it it's worth it when it's really worth it when the they don't have that wiggle room on the tightest budget no Spotify with ad free even with all that they only have $100 left on a monthly basis and like mathematically it's going to take them you know 10 years to pay it off or they could go through bankruptcy and then it's on for seven to 10 years you know it's just like okay uh at that point if they can literally bring in an extra $500 a month that could like more than double their progress towards paying off DE what do you think is the best side hustle I mean I just recommend people getting job as quick as possible I I know during the pandemic there's some uh you know Uber and ubering was pretty good it's not as good anymore it's a little hard it's kind of isn't it like kind of the it's a low percentage that's actually making good money on it versus everyone else um dude I'm telling people there's a coffee shop up the street I talked to the manager I I you know I see him often he's like I need to hire people we're hiring people at 18 bucks an hour please send send your guests here please send them and I'm like go that's pretty good for coffee shop now yeah I'm like go go BR some coffee go I don't know I that's pretty good and like they're desperate to hire people they will work schedules out they'll figure it out if it doesn't work it doesn't work try the place next door service is still back filling in a lot of cities not as much as before interesting but they're still back filling I know Tech's hard you can't just go out and get a random like side gig as easily in Tech or anything but if you work a little service for a bit that's not a huge issue anything with tips is tips can bring in some really good money yeah actually yeah just ask a few questions and true flip this thing over real quick yeah how much do you tip if you go into a place like a Chipotle Chipotle where they make the food in front of you but you're not sitting down and eating what's the appropriate tip on that percentage uh coffee shop I always give a tip food delivery always give a tip restaurant I give a great tip 30% at restaurants but for like whatever Chipotle like a fast casual sort of dining experience because it's not an 18er because tiet Chipotle the way I see it is it's it dependent on multiple different variables if they serve they have good service then I'm tipping but also if they flip that screen over and the first button is 20% that makes me upset is ever 20% I always see 15 a lot of the times they'll flip it over and the top the first the lowest you can tip is 20% and that will there's always an other button though yes you can but I'm just saying like when they provide you with three things because no one's very few people go to the custom tip you usually do you know the three 20 25 30 or 15 20 25 and if it starts out at 20 then that for for some reason I don't know I'm thinking to myself like that's what a lot of people tip at restaurants and I would say there's a big Delta between you know the service that's provided at a restaurant versus taking an order and obviously it gets split with the chefs and stuff like that I mean there's like kios and stuff when I go to like a concert and I get like a little snack there and it's just I pick it up from a roller and then it's asking for a tip I I punch that note tip button yeah cuz nothing was done there I didn't see human I didn't even see someone so I don't even know what's happening but yeah I don't know although really quick before we go into that did you know that the average time to hire for most organizations is 30 to 45 days are you tired of a costly and lengthy hiring process simplify and speed up your recruitment by using the experts at Express Employment Professionals reduce time to hire cut down on multiple interviews and lower your recruitment costs whether you're looking for contract workers or a new team member expresspros streamline recruiting candidate screening and hiring process is more efficient than hiring on your own visit expresspros.com today haven't used a staffing company before well we know you enjoy learning new things and keeping up with Trends and efficiencies make a change this year with your hiring businesses are navigating a hiring landscape that's never been more costly or regulated so start at expresspros.com to find a location near you with more than 860 locally owned offices you're going to get the hiring support you need at Express pros.com with the link also Down Below in the description thank you so much for sponsoring this podcast and now let's get back to the episode but you know what I got to ask you something are you looking to cut costs and improve your business's bottom line well the best business operators have turned to our sponsor ramp to help them cut down on wasteful spending and improve their Finance operations ramp is the corporate card and spend management software designed designed to help you save time and put money back in your pocket with ramp spend policies are built into the card to control spending before it even happens it automatically collects and categorizes receipts so you'll never have to chase them down again plus ramp enforces compliance by flagging violations and locking cards for non-compliance basically saying if Graham wants to get a little silly and use the ice coffee hour company card to buy himself some coral for his reef aquarium which I know he wants to do the spending will be controlled before it even happens he will be flagged and his card will be locked so don't do it Graham ramp also helped streamline your entire Financial workflow from expense reporting reimbursements and vendor payments all in one place not to mention businesses Sav an average of 5% in their first year with ramp plus now you could get $250 when you join ramp all you got to do is go to ramp.com with the link Down Below in the description again it's ramp.com rm.com with the link Down Below in the description cards issued by sunton Bank member FDIC terms and conditions apply thank you so much to ramp for sponsoring this episode so what are most people getting wrong about personal finance probably the behavior part A lot of people think it's just out of control you know we kind of talked about already is it's like everyone just says oh they deserve or it's this out of my control so much is behavior you see it in the numbers I mean $900 spent on door Dash in today's episode did you really need to Door Dash $900 in a month when you literally couldn't pay for a $400 collection so it's impossible I don't have an extra $400 okay you do it's like gets control so much more Behavior than people think do you ever have a problem relating to some people who are on their show who are in situations that you have not been in yet like let's say a single mother with three kids is that hard for you to like help her given that you haven't been in a situation like that yourself uh yeah I think anything that I haven't been in it's always going to be a little harder I try to relate it to people I know in my life family members or friends who've been through certain things you know um like I wasn't raised in a single family household but I know people who have been had conversations that I try to try to relate it in some kind of way and I try to at least listen and be empathetic even though I'm known for interrupting I try I think the the big the big hard ones I feel like I canate relate to that pretty okay the big hard ones there's someone that again if it's like I've never been in or known anyone that's been in a like horribly abusive situation I don't know how to relate to that never been in it and I don't know people in it and if I do I don't know it cuz they don't want to talk about it yeah there's that breaking Dave Ramsey call I remember that where someone was in an abusive situation and she called and Dave Ramsey like do you need help and she's like yes yes and then he told her to to we're going to call 911 for you like stay on the line that was awful I can't relate to that that's hard that's really hard but that's usually when we try to connect them with different resources and stuff as well what percentage of just the general what you've seen come on your show can be solved with some more financial literacy and discipline versus the stuff that realistically these people are going to need to file for bankruptcy and take extremely drastic measures to completely reset vast majority vast majority I'd say only 5% this year that we've uploaded like it needs to be something extreme like bankruptcy is like the only option or you know so one out and and the people that come on your show are probably a representation of some of the the people that are lower on the scale of just general financial status absolutely so it's we're talking a very small percentage of people you would say are actually financially screwed oh well I don't know about that again when we go back to the what average American doesn't have a thousand can't afford $1,000 emergency or the $6,000 credit card balance a lot of people are financially [ __ ] a lot of people don't have even close to enough for retirement like a lot of people are financially [ __ ] as dire as what we have on the show for the average or the median American no we're definitely on the lower half because you know we want it to be a challenge we want it to be more interesting you know it's definitely uh but it's these are still the people you're working with are the people you're walking next to on the street they're people in your family talking about money's Taboo in the country so it's like you we don't know until they come on here so many people actually have come on the show to send us we we talked to them in a followup and they're like yeah like my co-workers knew I was coming on the show and stuff but they were so surprised at how bad my finances were it's just we don't know now on their side what's the most difficult part about being poor or broke yeah when you don't have an emergency fund that's where things can get [ __ ] I mean what happens you know a pet gets sick you know sh gets scary that's got to be the worst honestly for a pet yeah it's expensive I had to take Bailey in she had a little limp uh apparently she had a sprain it was almost $1,000 $1,000 for medication for them to look at it and do an x-ray I did 30,000 recently wow 30,000 multiple surgeries on my on my great parenes what happened she ate a toy this small little piece of a ball do you have insurance I do saved me 20 cuz I think that was the C it was still 10 um but uh it busted up her intestine so it exploded and then sepsis and stuff how was the how's the dog oh she's great she's great now she's great now but that was a $30,000 surgery yeah it was so hard to catch because usually they they were telling me like that blockage and stuff it's like they can't keep down any food they can't you know it's just diarrhea and vomit but she wasn't really showing that many symptoms how did you no it's because she would like show symptoms and then she'd be fine for a few days and then symptoms and then fine a few days and I was like okay well that's it I send in send in they sent her home saying nothing was wrong after x-rays then a week later after symptoms like kept popping up I'm like okay something's happening she was acting slow and I brought her over and that's when they realized it split open and how they realiz that did they get a different scan or something uh yeah they went with ultrasound oh okay yeah why do I think that this was the second time this had happened yes because it is cuz that's why she has to she looks like a big scary dog every time she goes outside alone now because she wears a what's it called musle but it's not because she bites it's because she eats [ __ ] so why I don't know dude she's obsessed she's obsessed apparent I was talking to one of the Vets there and her great panes does the same so she just is that is that a breed thing to like see something and just want to eat it my other dog doesn't my other dog chews sticks but spits them out you know they chews on Bones and stuff I SP it out but I don't know man she's crazy so I'm telling people it feels so [ __ ] mean it feels so mean but I've started to come to the mindset where like if you cannot afford pet insurance you cannot afford a pet cuz if you can't afford to pay for a life saving event or even if you can't pay afford to pay to take them in and have them throw up you know how they can do that little medication if they eat something if you can't afford to pay that you can't afford a pet you can't cuz you think a pet is a privilege yeah they're your responsibility you're taking you're taking on that contract you know that moral contract yeah there was someone I knew uh who had had a pet didn't have pet insurance or it was something where the pet wouldn't be covered the pet had an issue and there was like a 50/50 chance of survival but it was going to be like a $20,000 surgery yeah 5050 chance that's what mine was didn't have any money took out a loan took out one of those because they they offer the payday services or whatever it is I took out the loan did the surgery pet didn't make didn't make it it was 50% of no so now not only have you lost your pet you're $20,000 in debt on a payment plan for a pet that didn't make it yeah it just that's got to suck because it's not like you want to say oh 5050 well okay let's save the money you you never want to just like save the money for a pet probably even if there's like a 20% chance of survival you probably want to take it oh yeah gosh that's got to be that's got to be sad just it's it's harder for a pet than I hate to say it it's it's harder for a pet than a than a person because the pet really is like entirely dependent on you unless it's like a kid instead of a child yeah a child would be you know but when something depends on you and it's like you're the one responsible for it yeah I I used to one one of the I don't really you know get on like Reddit or anything anymore but one thing I used to see back in the day uh people just kept saying oh Caleb yells at people for taking out credit cards to save their dog's life at the thing and i' like don't think I've ever yelled at that I yell at the fact that they take out the credit card to you know do the vet bill but then they go and blow a [ __ ] ton of money on fast food instead of paying off the credit card it's like I never understood that criticism never yelled at them saving their pets life yelling at them not paying off the card do it if you don't have an emergency fund do it I would do it but pay it off sacrifice for a bit and pay it off after you do it how much how is pet insurance it it depends on you know the breed and age and stuff uh both of my pups are like I think like 35 40 a month that's not bad at all that's not bad well I got them young and healthy oh God before she started going crazy with her do you think that's a good thing should I do that I would really I would you're gonna you're not GNA let a pet die you're not gonna let a pet die you're not going to want to spend $30,000 either so do it I don't how would be 30 grand I don't know uh yeah she she got quoted a while ago for a potential like a like a elective surgery that like hey she might need this at some point it was like five grand and I was like I don't know about that she's fine who what who which one Bailey oh okay yeah it was like a apparently these dogs are sometimes born without like it sounds so weird a kneecap and like her kneecap isn't fully developed on one leg it's not an issue but it it might be an issue and so it's like do you want to do this have the surgery now for something that might not be an issue or not do it and it might be an issue in the future but it might not be and I was like well if if it becomes an issue then we could address it get the pet insurance I think because of that it might be a little more expensive depending and I think Bailey's what five four okay so yeah it gets more expensive the older they get I'd get it young get it young you just got a cat right yeah Yes actually I got a kitten too you're double catting I'm double catting so now you're triple catting right I was talking about the again yeah that's Ramsey Gigi is the new cat and then Bailey yes G's very cute yeah she and a lot of fish she is oh yeah the fish ton of fish oh yeah I don't think you pet insurance on fish I don't even know if that's an option that' be pretty funny that' be interesting tank insurance for the idea gosh that would be that would be great you know if your Coral dies we'll pay you for it I'm going to ruin your retention right now for a quick second so you cut this if you want but I was dating no no no I was going on multiple dates with someone and she had a nice Coral uh tank was just beautiful lots of fish Coral then the Big Texas freeze four years ago happened it all died everything died that's my nightmare if a if so if a tank goes without electricity for like eight hours pretty much everything dies and it depends on yeah it depends on the temperature too because because the oxygen and the water so the first thing so the temperature can drop drop that's okay up to like you know low 70s and things can survive from that it's actually a lot better that the the temperature goes down then go up the temperature goes up too much everything will die goes down a little bit more wiggle room there but basically the fish just fixate there just no oxygen in the water no uh running water and they'll just suffocate to death her room got 40° for a week nothing nothing could be done got to get a generator yes I ended up getting a generator for the tank smart yeah they were they were actually a sponsor of a video and I used it I plumbed it directly into the outlet uh the breaker for the AC that's so cool that's so cool so now it just takes over it's electric works great tank insurance it's the new insurance it's worth it what was it like for you what were the statements like when you were in the worst financial situation you've ever been in I look at them I don't know but I do know this um when I was really bad Early College you know I wanted my daily MCD that was my dinner and I could physically afford it cuz I was also active uh what I would do is just find a way just to make the payment necessary on a credit card so I had enough at the credit card before it hit to the limit to go to McDonald's and get that meal for that day cuz how could I cook I couldn't cook I needed my tendies what was the what was the meal what would you get chicken tendies back when they did it tendies fries and probably a Shake wow it's the shake the shake are the real like C was F back then though that didn't mean anything cuz I was active walking around campus and stuff are you just less active now oh yeah I mean just here you know at the studio I'm going back and forth between the three units but like yeah a lot less active now are you motivated at all to try to get in better shape to a certain point I mean it's the motivation that I tell a lot of people on the show as well it's like yes I'd like to get thin or be more fit um but uh obviously my behavior is suggesting I prefer going and getting that meal or whatever being lazier and not working out a bit more like mentally yeah I'd like to I want to get there of course but it's it's surprising to me that you're very dedicated when it come to business money finances like all of that it's like you're like a 10 out of 10 like like perfect on that very disciplined but when it comes to health there's less of a focus on like wanting to dial it in I think it's consequences I always have a wakeup call I had a financial wakeup call one day just you know everything was [ __ ] and I realized how [ __ ] it was I I joke with my friends like I'm just like I need to have a heart attack real quick just go someone ordered me a heart attack real quick give me you know if I have that then I'm like oh [ __ ] time to get it's like you know I don't have I don't have any harder time going on dates or anything I don't have any there's been no no consequences there's been no negativ you're not at a point where you're going to have a wake up I mean like you could be your entire life like you are right now and be totally fine it's I feel like there's a bit of a health aspect of like you know be healthier you might have more energy you might you know look in the mirror and be like yeah but there's not going to be like a you know someone's like e can't like I I just don't think and that's why I'm not going to make an excuse I mean there's no excuse the fact is for those other things that I'm so disciplined in as if I get less discipline on the business I see that in next month's you know numbers when I sit down um with my number two Robert and we're just we're looking over numbers I see the immedate impact right no scale what if I want to I want to but obviously my behavior is showing that I want something more I think the hardest part is starting it is that's all it is I think if you gave it 30 days like you challenged yourself from January 1st to 31st 30 days hiring a dietician yeah uh meal preps and a personal trainer three times a week you don't even need a personal trainer you could just go on a caloric deficit honestly I'm moving to a walkable community and every time I in living I before I moved to this house I lived in a walk community and I was you know I was 30 PBS lighter uh I went on walks every day with the dogs now that I live in some just I love my house but I just live in a subur Suburban neighborhood no street lights no sidewalks it's dark when we get out of work in the winter uh cuz people refuse to keep permanent daylight savings time and uh this just I don't go on walks or anything anymore I would like to see you get in really good shape this yearz we've almost done dude we've almost done like an audit a year between you and I going on and I'll find something we could fine tuned a little bit I think the first year was getting you off the franchise we did that that Resturant man it is as successful as ever though that's okay but look at you I think you made a better decision I think you are the winner here but I will say there's something Beyond money that like I've noticed a lot of like really wealthy people are now gravitating towards like getting really fit in shape because that's something you can't really buy like you got to think of all the billionaires now are all doing the thing where they're all getting like jacked with six-packs it's the one thing that like they are it's yeah it's now becoming the ultimate Flex to be like in your 40s and 50s but chiseled yeah absolutely and I I think I think that could be next for you because because you've definitely done well in business as we're about to get to in a little bit so keep watching and like And subscribe if you haven't done that already mean the world to us but I think remember when I beat you guys to a million subscribers yeah that was fun uh yeah we don't think about that okay but but now that you've done well in all these aspects I think the next thing for you would be Fitness just dialing it in and you might command a little more Authority with guests being like hey bad know if that's a good thing like having a jacked rich guy like yeah like 12 employees like yelling at you I feel like that's that's a different you know honestly I mean I can tell you guys I I have not talked about this on the show I I do hear that I really do and I know that's something that at some point really does need to be taken advantage of one thing that has just like awakened in me this year that I almost feel like I'm falling behind in life uh I [ __ ] I want wife I want kids like for I've never felt that in my life before I've always joked about it on this show 29 I've always joked about it on the show but for some reason something this year I've like felt like I'm like like failing you're having a lot of couples on the show do you think that could have anything to do with dude imagine this like the subliminal messaging is coming out as Caleb's guests come on the show couples no it doesn't do it's been really weird it because the financial success I I I I don't know I I do have financial success I have business success I have no one to share with I don't go to home any to home home to anyone um I don't know like I feel like I'd like to pass it along um I don't know dating dating's always been easy and fun and I love going on dates and I go on a lot of dates and I don't know but there's that I feel like there's just that's a big missing chunk and I my family was in town this last weekend and I got the most thoughtful amazing gift from my mom of a photo album I've never had one before and it showed my entire life and I saw my parents with like uh seven-year-old me no 10-year-old me and they're my age now the age I am right now had a 10-year-old me and I'm like what the [ __ ] am I doing yeah but you wouldn't have been able to do all this with a seveny it would be that would have been an uphill battle it could also be part of the holidays you know a lot of people feel like around the holidays January building up this year more than ever before like I've you know felt like oh it'd be nice to have a girlfriend before you know and We've joked about that and stuff I've never felt the way I feel this way man i' give it five years like you want you want to make sure the person that you that you end up finding like you give it a few years with them and like a few years just YouTube because once you have a kid it's like you that you can never undo that you know there's always going to be a kid no matter what like your life will change forever because of that like there's no going back and so like I think it's better to live it up now with someone else I'm curi you are you a single little guy yeah I'm a single little guy and I'm feeling a little bit of the pressure too I just turned 26 and I'm definitely like once I once I hit that age to I'm like okay like I'm past you know the first quarter of a century yeah I feel like I should probably get on it but I'm curious for you what were you looking for previously just to go on casual dates and have fun or whatever yeah I just I enjoyed casual dates and it would be okay if a relationship happens here and there just I never really took it like super seriously what's preventing you from getting into a relationship now then uh I guess nothing's uh preventing really busy with this job because this job doesn't just exist here you know it exists when I go home I'm also beat afterwards because we do so much more than just filming the show you know now it's it's a full-fledged business and uh and also just I love spending time with the friends as well and uh I don't know it's it's a busy life and what it is is being busy I think so I mean I go on the dating apps and I try to ask some people out in person as well um which is risky uh but uh yeah dude I would give it five years unsolicited gram advice just head down buckle down five years yeah you told me a few months ago to just like not even go on dates anymore yeah I think I said that you said it was just like too risky now yeah I think for for everything that you're building makes me extra nervous think any distraction is a bad thing from taking your eye off what's the point of this right what is the point of this I short I think it's a short-term sacrifice five years five we're we're not talking about a 30-year career I'm just saying just to give him a little bit of credit yeah it you're you have a certain goal and and future idea of what you want your life to look like and maybe Caleb and maybe Caleb has a completely different dream life down the road that that so your advice to him in terms of what you personally would do may not be you know sympathetic towards whatever spot that that Caleb is in right now I could relate closely to it and I think five years I think you set yourself up for a lot of longevity yeah over five years and an industry that changes very quickly where anything happens I think five years solidifies yourself as like you know a Paramount person in this space in such a way where you're G to slowly over time remove yourself from the business like it's not going to be Caleb Hammer show indefinitely it's going to evolve about that I think it's going to evolve you're slowly going to remove yourself and be more of an operator and investor and all these other things a business owner and then I think that's the appropriate time and hey if someone comes along I'd be receptive to it but I don't think it's necessarily a good thing to like go out there and you know unless unless you enjoy it unless it's like something you love doing I love going on dates then keep doing that I like keep doing that um I'll give you two things one just saw my parents right I want my kids to be able to grow up with active young grandparents you know I want them to be able to experience grandparents but but and two you know especially more these days you tend to date more like you know one two three years in your range it's not the 1950s anymore if I'm if I'm 35 dating my range talking about the biological clock if we're just being purely realistic I know modern medicine's great there is that it's what a lot of people fear I don't have the biological clock but a lot of people I talk to fear that and if I'm waiting 5 years and if I'm 35 and I'm married to someone let's just say on the young end of 32 you know that's probably like ticking say don't date someone who's 27 that's probably ticking in their brain well Twitter would be up in arms like I don't think they I don't think anyone I don't I don't think anyone cares I don't think any real people care no no real people don't care termin the online rage bait absolutely but um yeah I don't know it's just I don't know it's something that's been weighing on me a lot this year but before we get into that let's talk about rent for a second isn't it crazy that it's probably your biggest expense and yet you get nothing in return well all of that changes with built rewards built is a Rewards program that lets you earn points just for paying your rent that's right every month you'll pay your rent just like you always do but now you'll actually get something back there's no cost to join and as a member you'll get to earn valuable points in your rent and even on your everyday spending these points can then be transferred to over 500 Airlines and 700,000 hotels and properties worldwide you could also redeem points towards future rent payments or unique experiences that only Built members could access so if you're not earning points on rent my question for you is why not start earning points for the rent that you're already paying by going to join built.com iedc coffee that is Jo I NB lt.com IED coffee and make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you at join.com coffee to start earning points on your rent payments today once again you're already going to be making these payments may as well get something in return thank you so much to BT for sponsoring this episode and back to the podcast it's 2025 and you're probably asking yourself how do you make this year different how do you finally build something for yourself maybe you've got that business idea you've been tossing around but you have no idea where to get started I get it it could be very confusing thankfully though that is where our sponsor Shopify is there to help Shopify makes it incredibly easy to create your brand open for business and get your first sale with thousands of customizable templates you can get your store up and running with no coding or design skills needed it's literally drag and drop to create your own business plus shopify's powerful social media tools connect all of your channels making it super easy to create shoppable posts and sell wherever your customers are scrolling and it doesn't stop there Shopify handles all the nitty-gritty from payments shipping and taxes all from one single dashboard so you could focus on actually growing your business that's why you shouldn't wait imagine looking back a year from now and wishing that today was the day you started make 2025 the year you finally did it so sign up for a $1 per month trial at shopify.com all lowercase once again that is shopify.com all lowercase you can literally change your entire life with a $1 per month trial at shopify.com thank you again Shopify for sponsoring this episode and now let's get back to the podcast so what is it that you want out of life like your dream perfect like how's this all look dream house wife two to three kids two dogs two cats two cows that'd be cool how how much Community like how are you affording this where's the money coming from I could retire right now I I could retire and live a good happy upper middle class life so technically speaking the only thing that you can now optimize for if you want to achieve that exact dream that you just stated was you need to find a wife and two cows yes and two and two dogs I have two dogs yeah yes um yeah I mean I guess I could do the ultimate stretch goals build the business I like building the business building the business is fun I'm competitive with myself right so I like building the business that's another part of life so that would be another thing that I'd like to see it's not about the collection of all the wealth it's like I just love this and I love uh I mean you met so many employees today you know it's cool it's fun I love here just to hang out honestly just to chill you a very good work environment well thank you I can't wait for you guys fun it's lighthearted I like it in terms of your work your your perfect schedule how often would you be at the office 9 to 5 Monday through Friday and I do love the work it is fun how much would the house be how much money yeah the house I'm getting right now I think is my perfect house really it's in a walkable community and I value that more I didn't realize how much I value that more than almost anything I want to be able to walk to the pub I want to walk to the grocery store I want to walk to everything but it's also quiet it's safe this is cute great Parks how much money would you need to support your lifestyle your kids your wife would she be working would dream dream dream she can do whatever she wants but dream dream dream I mean I I'm pretty close I think I I I'd be able to pull off 300 a year now pretty close you think that's how much it would cost oh no no no no I we would be Inc Beyond comfortable with that I could do less I could do two with three kids I well I guess I haven't ma the kid I haven't math the kids yet I guess I haven't ma the kid $30,000 a year per kid what is that the pbd was telling me $100,000 a year per kid that's that's PD's kids he's I understand but but okay so if we're talking elite private school after school activities well I want I'm okay with public school I don't need to go hey I didn't mind public school you're going to State College like it's like I don't know I $30,000 a year a kid yeah I don't want them to grow up like who like privileged or anything either like spoiled and I grew up with spoiled and I grew up with like a billionaire kid and millionaire kids who were also super chill cuz they weren't spoiled you know I wouldn't want all that I don't know I don't know that's not my vibe yeah so you think 300 300 Grand sure it's hard for me to picture I haven't pred out kids because that's not a realistic thing right now I'm not $400,000 a year I'm not po say before tax 400 it's hard for me to math it out that's more of a security thing less of like I want I want I want it's more of a security thing because my life still I think we talked about this last time my life has not really changed since going on here were able to go to nicer restaurants you know as the friend group but I hang out with the exact same friends before as I did afterwards but a Tesla that was exciting I don't know it's like I don't know I guess that number is more of a security thing I don't have the I want I want I want I want that's fair cuz I don't I don't travel you know fing what do people do they travel and they get on planes there you go how has your progress been because I remember that was a sticking point you have a fear flying um nope it's not fear flying what was it it was the anxiety of being contr not having control yeah yeah the most extreme version of that anxiety is people are afraid to leave their house I have the light version right I have the light version essentially that phobia yeah so I have like a version of that probably I mean that's at least what therapists have said so that's like the light version you know are you doing anything to work on that honestly since we've talked about it everything's just been so there's only been one thing that I was like yeah that would have been cool but other than that I've been just grinding and happy it' be cool to go back fly back to Michigan maybe I hate the snow family would be cool though but they just came down so I don't know it hasn't been it hasn't been a big goal this year you know you I thought it would be but it wasn't you know what would change your life honestly you get in shape for a year like you get jacked and when when you finally reach a milestone like whether that be on the scale or like lifting a certain amount or something like that you get on an airplane and you go back and visit your family I swear man that that will change the entire trajectory of your life if you could accomplish those two things and make your goal to get on the plane when you hit the goal or what become best friends with Dave Ramsey and use one of those PJs that's it that's the easy way out but you know what if it gets if it gets you on a plane actually one thing we thought about doing for our paid member uh our paid membership on our YouTube memberships is a a vlog of us uh just renting a plane to fly up for like an hour and circle around awesome just to get on the plane you know but it would it wouldn't be like the full cost cuz this is circling but it would it would show that oh I can be on the plane I can be okay you know what you could do that would be hilarious instead of getting the private jet you booking every single seat on the airplane so it's just you that would how much would that cost I don't know I it be less it sorry it' be more than a private jet probably more but I think it would be hilarious is to be you on the airplane that's it the whole thing is the whole thing is just you we have to make it that' be funny you know what I'm surprised honestly someone like Mr Beast wouldn't do that for a short buying every seat on an air it be logistically challenging like how are you going to find a flight that has no seats booked already and then you just book way in advance like you probably as soon as it comes out and like yeah that's possible okay or just leave one seat open and just a random person would be funny put that person next to you that would be funny be funny uh okay I'm curious uh in terms of dating you said that you go up to people and just apprach people you're still doing that every once in a while I'm not like a go to Bar kind of person you know when I hang out with my friends we either like at each other's place or like at a restaurant but every once in a while you know dog park something like that tell me how does that typically go for you uh I have a mini panic attack and then I'm like okay let's go and then I go and then I uh don't remember anything as I'm spurting out nonsense as I try to ask for a number and then I walk away and how what's your success percentage has to be like 5% but serious 5% yeah so you go up to 20 women and then one of them will say yes and give that feels about right that feels about right and do you do you usually ask for a phone number at the end of it yeah or Instagram or something yeah and one in 20 will give it to you maybe that's I'm hard guessing on that what do you think is causing that seems slightly low I feel like I feel like 30% it's a little awkward I know I I'm a bumbling awkward dude when I'm in that situation and I'm bad at the you know I feel like the success rate would probably go from 5% to 15% and that's up just pure a guess on both ends but like if I did the whole conversation for 5 to 10 minutes and close it off with okay I'm going to go you want to and it's like that would probably be better but I just kind of go up and I'm like you're cute that's what you said so you started off with a compliment so something I got recommended this video I loved it this guy just started a brand new YouTube channel his first video got like 600,000 views and it was him approaching a hundred women to try to get a phone number and it's just him with one of those like you know sunglass you know like like what you have just him going and asking hey I think you're you're cute can I get your phone number no no no no I think he got like one out of a 100 and all the comments were like yo you're doing this wrong you should just like start small talk talk this and they gave him critiques and he went out and did it again and he ended up getting like almost like one and four saying yes you're getting a number was I think it was to agree to go on an instant date with him oh but the secret was like just general small talk first without any objective was just like chitchatting and it seemed very natural and like obviously you could tell he was awkward in the beginning but you see his progress through like 1 through 20 and by 20 in and he's doing this all in a day like he's kind of warmed up doing well and just getting like instant dates that's getting instant numbers it's a lot of work yeah you got to work on it just really practice it do you notice yourself getting better the more you do it well the thing is they're just so far in between is this is it's kind of like a restart every time I had a success um two days ago uh where I left a number for a waitress uh most beautiful person I've ever literally most beautiful person I've ever seen never seen anyone more beautiful left my phone number she didn't text me but her cute friend texted me well how did that work out she just gave it to her friend she was like so she's married so she gave it to her friend that makes sense and she was like ah here's this guy he cute she text me and she's she's really cute too you know what I would do if if if you're doing this at least make content out of it like for members or something like this no no really film it yeah okay that would be amazing to watch I would love to watch that well if you want to apply to be my wife and child bear go to Caleb hammer.com onlyfans it's where it's where all is is it actually a you know what well we should make a we should make a link just going forms would you ever have a form where people can submit to go on a date with you no unless un it was for a show unless it was for a show it would have to be for a show I I don't think so cuz then you just get parasocial I have a feeling you know it would just be like fan fan fan it's just like film put put it on the show like do what Jubilee does where you have like a a sheet in between you but where you have a sheet in between you and you're just talking to people you can't see them uh and just like have them answer questions and then you pick the one that you like the most out of the top 20 and then you you go on a date with them maybe on the date you discuss credit scores and like savings goals and just things like this and it's a fantastic show yeah the girl that you picked on your blind date on your I ended up talking to her just on accident oh really yeah oh but long distance so it didn't work do do you tend to get more nervous this is once again a bad sounding question but the more pretty give it to me the girl is does does it tend to make you more apprehensive to go in and talk to her probably I'm not nervous on dates but I'm definitely nervous asking people out yeah that's definitely the the scary part um I think I'm nervous either way cuz I'm I'm obviously attracted to them if I'm asking them out so I'm like and have you ever cold approached someone and then they recognize you oo I think once I think I [ __ ] buried that down uh yeah I was like yeah but I love your show or I have a boyfriend but I love your show one of those it would be even worse would' be like my boyfriend loves your show yeah I almost I almost asked someone out who I almost asked for someone's Instagram who came up to me the other day and started talking but she was with someone and I just couldn't do it cuz it could have been her brother here's all you I I'll tell you the way to get around that how do you guys know each other instant oh my boyfriend oh cool how long have you been together two years that's awesome hey that you know do you live nearby like and then you just spin it off but anytime it's what you know go ahead I'm anytime like say it's her boyfriend this my friend now all you need to do is is no now pay attention to the friend and like make him feel like he's a part of the conversation and ignore her I think it's a polite thing to do ignore her no just involve everyone in the conversation no but but you chit out you chit out with the guy for a little bit yeah you know because you don't want to make it seem like all right I'm gonna block you out all right good oh no no no no no yeah I'm always awkward in those encounters anyway when anyone comes up to me like I just never really know what to say I'm just like oh thanks for watching fist bump you know so if you came up to Caleb a couple days ago which is sometime in December in home slice and at home sou Congress that's a great I've been Mee I'm gonna go there when I'm here it's a great pizza spot if you came up to Caleb and you had a gentleman with you slide into his DMS absolutely or something Caleb hammer.com only fans she was cute yeah don't be afraid to ask how they know each other it's always yeah that's smart that's really smart just I didn't think about that what about dating apps yeah I mean that's where I get the majority of my dates is hinge and Bumble those are the two ideas hinge and Bumble what do you find to be more successful um whatever one I'm focusing on I can't do both at the same time so I'm just like going in on one and what do you think about dating fans do you think that's a weird thing like someone who watches your content okay it's really difficult cuz um I have I'm in a weird situation now where it's like almost anyone and everyone that I just like meet in general has at least seen a clip cuz clips gone viral or now they're like I've seen the Rock and Money commercial you know it's just like they've seen the face so a lot of people know who I am where they are in the stage of like Oh I'm a die hard fan or oh I just know you exist that's what I don't know so I would totally cool to go on a date with like unless we get to the parasocial weirdness where it's like they know everything about me I know nothing about them that's a bit weird I accidentally went on one of those dates they didn't they didn't tell me until during um it wasn't a very good date but If someone knows of my existence that's totally fine totally fine I know there's conversations around power dynamics and stuff but I don't know it's really weird uh again things I think it's impossible to to not have a power dynamic in some capacity like even if you have a really beautiful woman and like an average looking dude there's going to be income difference yeah but there's going to be a power Dynamic there just because she'll have more options than the guy that's the conversation that that Twitter tends to fail to have with power dynamics is everything has a power Dynamic technically you have a power Dynamic right now cuz you guys are going to edit this and whatever it is is what it is that's fine even if I have a say like there is a power Dynamic power dynamic between a teacher and a student and a mother and a daughter and a me and my pet there's a power Dynamic anywhere power dynamics are not a bad thing abuse of power Dynamic is a bad thing and how do you abuse it everyone always brings up there the power Dynamic that's not a bad thing it's like hey you don't get to come on this show unless you do this naughty bad thing that's an abuse of a power Dynamic that's what people need to freak out about but so I wouldn't have the issue of them knowing I exist and us getting dinner that that wouldn't be a too big of a deal for me it just get weird if it's parasocial then that's just when I'm not having fun anymore cuz like you know everything about me it's just me trying to you know it just gets weird yeah so I've noticed you lean a lot lately into relationship Dynamics what have you noticed between almost counseling couples with their finances I do not know why but they do not talk about their [ __ ] money why don't they talk no one talks to each other about their money there's always a hidden debt we discover almost every episode just hidden debt and they just don't talk about it or when they go to have the conversation one becomes bickering and nagging towards the other person the other person becomes mute and never wants to participate in that conversation again the communication around Finance in this country especially among couples is horrendous I don't get it we've never had one couple on the show where the communication is not at least bad in some way who spends more money men or women on our show I I don't know the real answer but on our show it's been the dudes what are they spending they get their tool de and they get their uh Ford and you know they get their their manly toys they're only fans yeah they always have some uh truck in the back that they're gonna fix they're gonna fix you know and but there's a car payment on it still even though it's not running so why do you think they're not talking is is it the guy who just purely doesn't want to like involve his wife or girlfriend fiance in his own finances are there they shared finances separate becomes an argument every single time every single time they just it always becomes a blame game or they feel like it's a blame game like we're calling out these purchases what you calling out this stuff that I'm buying oh like it's all my fault you think it's all my fault it always becomes an argument they don't know how to communicate it in a healthy way when you have couples on the show like that though what Dynamics do you notice do not work like can you tell if people are a good fit for each other or not yeah there's definitely the the independent versus codependent people um I'm sure they can figure out in other aspects of marriage but when one person wants their finances to be their finances and the other one wants to achieve these goals together getting into retirement together paying off these debts together nope and the comments are always like we'll see divorce follow up in 6 months you know it's it's like when they're just not on on that same page I know Finance isn't the leading cause of divorce in the country but it's one of the major ones and if one person just like I this is my money I'll bring in my money I want to spend my money you know it's just like so what's your advice for couples definitely that you need to go into the conversation about budgeting if it's your first time in a non-combative Spirit uh not doing AC accusations of oh why' you spend this much money on this toy it shouldn't have been that let's document where the money was spent not who spent it and just what are the goals we want to do what does it take to get there and then budget for those goals equally do you think a saver could live a happy life with a spender as long as they're willing to hit the goals together I think so if the if the spender wants to overtake and not hit any of the goals that the saver wants to get to I think that's pretty hard and if the sa is not willing to have any fun that the spender wants to do then I think that's going to be as well but if they're at least willing to set reasonable goals that they want to get to together and they're both willing to make their compromises to get there I think that's fair I've noticed mental health has came up in your show a lot I mean it's nearly every episode at this point oh yeah what percentage would you just generally say that is part of the equation of these people's poor financial standings in terms of them bringing it up 99% in terms of it actually impacted them probably closer to 25% had people with real issues and we want to help them out a lot of people they get back into the corner and they'll bring up some mental health thing we have a interesting I'm very curious 20 years when they look back in this period of culture what they're going to say a lot of it is on Tik Tok right now of the mental health and Trauma Olympics has to be one up in each other has to be here's my trauma here's this thing and then people get convinced that they have a trauma in a mental health thing and it's just one uping one uping one uping and lots of self diagnosis I've had way too many people that come on the show they get backed into the corner of like hey you are wrong for this this is what you need to do to fix it then they have some self diagnosis that they never had through a mental health professional I will respect it and I will take it seriously when you talk to a professional and they at least give it inkling that you might have something even if it's not an official diagnosis that is when I will respect it but if you are getting pushed back on for the first time in your life and you say well my anxiety is too high it's like is this all just because we become a little too soft and a little too like gentle with each other that people just getting the reality of the situation can't just be told hey get your act together like that's not okay that's not cool maybe that might be a part of it I still really think just the way social media is you know I'm on the cusp of genen Z you're technically genz um a lot of that generation that we're involved in on the cusp of is it really is kind of the Olympics of just how bad are things like you have to be you have to have the worst trauma you have to have the worst situation and it gets the best engagement you get rewarded for it on the platforms and I don't know that's a big part of it and then people are convinced that they have a trauma like someone will tell a story and then like comments will flood and you're you you know you've been through so much trauma and all this stuff you're a victim and all this and it's just we why do you think the victim mentality lately has seen such a a surgence I'm sure we have and flow through everything right we have and flow through cultures we had the sexual revolution in what 60s 7s ' 80s and now we're almost having like an anti-sexual reevolution among the people where like people can't date people are really lonely and like people aren't even willing to have the conversations about sex feel like we probably EV flow through this you know what's interesting I saw on Twitter the amount of people who thought the founding fathers were heroes or evil the majority of gen Z believed that the founding fathers were Evil versus Heroes versus Boomers who almost all thought they were Heroes interesting to see just how culture is shifted and how people's mindset is going towards a let's focus on the bad you're also more rebellious when you're younger too right okay all right you know what then I'll give you that that's something I didn't think of yeah you always got a push back be against the man that's true everything's you know we're fighting the system so what are the biggest success stories that you've seen from Financial audit we've had uh on our new Financial audit follow-up Channel we've had quite a few people come on completely debt free getting that emergency fund starting to make uh progress towards those goals every time we see that it's just it's the most rewarding thing of the show you know actually seeing those Real Results because you can get lost in the you know filming every day making sure the uploads are going well all this stuff when you see real people getting Real Results that is definitely yeah so what do you do when they leave the show like how do you how do you support them and make sure that they stay on the right track yeah so what we tell them specifically for uh communication and everything we say hey we filmed with a few hundred guests reach out to us for anything we'll reach out to here and there but the main thing is if you need anything or any questions at all you reach out to us what we give them is access to our Discord and private Discord uh for past guest so they can cheer each other on we give them our budgeting uh class uh our investing class and our uh debt class and then we give them the uh the free app forever free budgeting app forever and then we any resources they personally want and ask for they get they get uh free certification through course careers for you know income help they get three free therapy sessions uh every once in a while with the uh some of the financial advisors that I use they can get some free sessions to sit down with them or if they don't we'll at least cover that session so anything and everything they need and then any questions they have along the way they can reach out and then we have them for follow-up channels and reassess so here's what I'm curious about how many guests are really unhappy with with a thumbnail um at this at well before you know in the first year you know decent you know a few here and there now basically none basic there are some that that I'm I'm looking at where I see them posted because I uhe there's so much fun but the thing is the thing is the onboarding process is so [ __ ] extensive they probably hear dude these are funny I'm going to kill him nasty woman girl math I deserve his money [ __ ] you pay me parasite with every single one of them the first phone call they have it is told about the titles and Thum plus again they're from the audience they literally see it but how how about this one controlling husband exploits Young Bride distur that was a a good one how how do how do they because it got 7 122,000 views I guarantee that this this person's like boss sees that through co-workers that their family sees that and and they are 100 bajillion per aware that every time most people tell everyone around them that they're coming on they're co-workers they ask permission from their boss a lot of people you know there's a lot that goes into it and we give them the warnings of all that as well so they can prepare for it but they are as permission I probably two times for the thumbnail and title before they come on they ask permission in the green room then they watch the onboarding video going over the thumbnail processes then if you go in the Green Room you'll see our thumbnails in there with titles under them good ide okay yeah they are given literally every opportunity in the world every there we've gone beyond extensive I've seen other YouTubers react to our content and they're and you know the Brent video where we kind of go over the process of how we do it and they're like [ __ ] you guys don't need to be doing all this type of this is this is overboard you guys are going overboard on your onboarding process these people could just look up the channel before they come on and know what they're getting into yeah which is true I mean why [ __ ] baby people you're an adult know what you're [ __ ] doing you know you're going on the show but also [ __ ] it we do have a responsibility in my mind I wouldn't feel morally comfortable if we weren't giving them every opportunity in the world to know exactly what they're doing so but even then do you ever do you ever get people still saying after the fact I don't like it or it's like hey I know what I'm getting into I understand it I'm an adult my own choice they are so beyond aware at this point that we don't get a single complaint we change the process any and every time that there ever is a complaint so if we ever had the reason the onboarding process exists is honestly because of someone like Brent I was like I didn't know that the thumbnail would have me crying or something it's like okay we changed the process you make it better this is always about growth and making it better now I'm curious in terms of your overall business like I gotta say You Know Jack and I showing up here a lot has changed it's incredible like we walked into a different business than we did before how has it changed from your perspective yeah I mean we're just really building the business is my favorite thing it's is fun it's not only a hobby but I'm competitive with myself you know there's a lot of avenues we're going into uh with the special project whether or not that's in this video uh uh further diversifying our content with your weekend money and financial auto follow-ups you know we do have our education now so we have marketing with that our you know our big our biggest part of the business is still the video side so you know we have our shorts editor and then two video editors and then an ad editor and then um and then you know three people soon on the casting side so that's pretty big we also have the inside sales rep who's able to go get sponsors that I want and stuff like that so you you have surpassed everything that I like every everything that I could imagine should be done like you've done that plus and effectively too there's only a million things more I want to do part of me wonders like I'm intimidated by seeing all the people and all the backend infrastructure that you have set up how do you learn how to do that I feel like I would just be kind of lost with you know well yeah I mean you don't do it all at once right you grow it and like I brought on my friend and also past cooworker Robert who you know he's also really good at this and we put our heads together a lot and uh you know we work on it together and you know I throw them a lot of the more miscellaneous tasks a lot of the HR a lot of stuff like that so uh so I don't know you surround yourself with the right people you vet people well we've never had um any bad experience with any employees so everything's been good um we even before people are hired we bring them in for a day just to see if they culture fit and stuff cuz we're we're a little rambunctious and you know we like to have fun so it's just I don't know I think if you put in the right investment how do you keep people motivated uh we I like relatively robust bonus structure some people are on like quarterly structures some people if they hit certain metrics on what they're working on they get bonuses but also since I think it is a fun place to work in general compared to like if you're going to go to most corporations I think people like to see the end results I know people got fired up today when we got the uh uh the results of the $10,000 paid off in 10 months media and thing like that's really good uh to hear um I don't know just seeing the growth everyone has such a integral part that no one is just here cuz they're here and they're not there's not one person that you could take away and oh it's okay in terms of the revenue could you break it down in like a pie chart in terms of where it comes from like you don't have to say a specific number just percentage terms like off the top of my head I'm pretty bad at that really let me give you the exact one can you get my laptop from the table now it's Grandma Jack I want to give him the best all right give them the best I actually really like these I do too dude they're so nice they're need they don't even sponsor but I'll if you could find a way to manufacture these and sell them I swear like this is the the coolest thing I've held in my hand okay no November um November ad rates for the YouTube channel was 32.8% uh one dedicated sponsor was 11% membership was 7% another dedicated sponsor was 14.4 and a bunch of other little followup different ads patreon that kind of crap and our secondary channels that all adds up to about I think it looks like 10% um and then all other minor sponsorships coming together 15.4 and then classes at 11 uh but no yeah that's pretty healthy in terms of diversification how do you plan to expand that over time I want to make our education system more robust we don't want to go for anything cash grabby um we just there's just such a bad negative connotation and fairly so of like other influenc or gurus out there who just like put out classes and they're just shitty you know that's why we do like oh a month take the class if you didn't find it valuable we'll refund you no questions ask and also our refund rate is uh 25% of Industry average so like we know we're doing things right and the refund rate overall is what like 3% 2% yeah lower than that really low and ours is 25% of that so I know we're so we want to build that out make sure we're actually providing value then again with the special project whether or not that it was announced that'll be uh hopefully a part building out our YouTube membership is a really helpful part as well and we do all these dedicated shows behind it behind the uh pay wall there and that helps support the ups and downs and everything so I'll tell you what I think you need to do I'll give you my unsolicited advice get a guy on the street I think a man on the street sort of style right now for shorts that you could turn into long form like 15minute videos I love this channel the School of Hard know have you seen this guy he go what do you do for a living like I love that they're great videos and this guy has no fear going up to like strangers hey had were you ever broke before how' you make your money I love his channel get a guy who's like really good going up to strangers on the street and you're in the perfect spot for it like the bar scene but instead of pickup videos or they're like flirting with women talk about money talk about finances have couples on on like J on the I would do it Jack would actually be fantastic I did it already I just I could stand the production you were really good at it man you had a good Knack at that yeah they did well I would do it but I just don't want to produce it yeah that's fair that's what I would do so I would do the man on the street that's its own segment different from you then what I would what I think would be really interesting and I'm giving you all the ideas that I just don't have the energy for but I know they would do well uh have an attorney on that goes through legal issues for people so it's like they'll get like a free attorney but like imagine I come to you like you were talking about the landlord issue nobody still is yeah and I just say like hey dude my landlord is this and that and there's like can I see your lease show the lease and they kind of go over but it's like uh you know we came up oh there's another one okay so the legal legal thing the next thing I'd love for you to do is a fitness audit oh okay I'll have to hire someone for that one it doesn't have to be I'm not talking like you but I think hire yeah hire someone hire someone who's just like you know ripped but basically to do a like Jack yeah they're all your do a fitness audit of people where they could go through and this is this is a lot more work but like go through and like go through their diet like you go through someone's finances go through like have them track what they eat for like a month or for a week or something like this something like that but they go through and it's like you ate a cheeseburg what are you thinking you pancakes with this and this mocha thing that's 700 calories like really outrage Reddit but you know what you fat shamer I think that would be that would be good and like you know put them on the spot in a place that they could get healthy and could learn the proper exercises and ways that they could get like in shape and diversifying away from you I think that that's the only I would do and eventually you have the Caleb Hammer the the audit brand cuz right now you got Financial audit I want to see Fitness audit I want to see legal audit yes that's I want to see the man on the street why aren't you doing things don't have the energy for I don't your energy you're not old yet zero motivation to do it like to me it sounds daunting it sounds like a ton of work and I'm like do I really want to do that probably not this the guy you want to partner with are you sure you don't want to well Jack doesn't have motivation you I'm trying to Jack sh that's false I the thing is we're both passionate about what we're passionate about and it's hard to expand the parameters right now the iced coffee hour for me is all I want it's all I need I would consider doing other things but most of the time the juice isn't worth the squeeze like I want to go and I want to make straight interview videos but at the same time I don't want to do all the post- production process I want to go try this thing out but I know that that's going to also there's going to be all of this auxiliary work with any other Venture that's taken on there's nothing wrong with hiring people good we pay a lot we pay a lot of like agencies to do certain things for us and we have a few people that we pay uh to take care of a lot of our responsibility so we we don't really have any like full-time things uh employees but we do have money going out to several different people that provide services for us that make our lives easier you like third parties cuz that's the thing we're trying to in-house almost everything cuz I feel like no one cares you make a lot a lot a lot a lot more than us well yeah okay well maybe if you in house things more you would be able to make things better though true like that's why it's management right to me it's management it's now we have to manage someone and oversee that I don't like what you like meetings like sitting down and just making things better just like I love getting in and just like let's figure this [ __ ] out I love title thumbnail strategy conversations like this this I love title thumbnail I like and then the review process of making sure the episode perfect I hate more than sitting down and making a thumbnail I would prefer to build out like systems than I would that stuff honestly really we all sit in that room over there and we spend an hour three days a week making titles and thumbnails and I I hire never felt a noose around my neck hire me as a consultant it's all it is man you would make our as too nice they wouldn't be as fun and Rowdy anymore give you uh give you some good ideas yeah so in terms of your own finances you mentioned in the past that you're worried about dying poor in a Walmart floor are you still worried about that maybe my worries change maybe I'm less worried about that and I want them I'm worried about the getting old wife kits thing like I don't know interesting should shift it maybe it shifted I don't know I did the whole uh you know drama thing and stuff like that you know kind of was like [ __ ] online and now I just like don't fear anything like that anymore it it's interesting because even just a year ago when we last talked to you you still maintained that you were worried about dying poor on Walmart four but now in just one year that's not really something that you think about too often not as much I think because I hit that safety goal so it really was achieving the goal because I know a lot of people they achieve their certain Financial goal and then they continue to extend that yeah well I mean I have stretch goals that I'd like to get to out of competitiveness with myself of course uh but that was my like safety goal safety goal and I hit it and you don't feel as worried about money now that you've hit that no not at least everything collapsing no do you worry about everything collapsing well if everything collapsed I'd be fine unless everything collapsed Countrywide but then we'd all be [ __ ] sure that's interesting I've not noticed much of a correlation between me feeling like financially secure and money it's just I I still feel the same H but that's probably more of a mental thing where I'm still kind of like looking over expenses I'm still kind of thinking about like do I really need that on Amazon probably not I could give you three free therapy sessions if you need I'm good I'm good talk talk to a financial therapist maybe I'm going to tell you a huge life hack yeah huge this will save you all your money and taxes marry someone who's a real estate professional all of a sudden now real estate losses can be Ed against your active income assuming she's full-time in real estate so now this here's what this means let's just say and just round numbers here you make a million dollars in a year MH now you're paying taxes on that million dollars at 37% let's just call it 300 Grand wiped away gone poof done forever but your wife is a real estate professional well guess what now you buy a commercial property with $500,000 down it's a $2 million property now on that $2 million property you could do what called cost segregation analysis where basically they go in and they say hey this uh ceiling has a lifespan of 15 years these floors have a lifespan of s years here's the value of all of this here's the depreciation schedule and here's what we could take bonus depreciation on so maybe on that $2 million billing again round numbers you get a million dollars of of active losses as a write off now all of a sudden you got a million dollar income a million dollar of losses merge the two zero tax whatsoever putting that on the dating profile yeah must be real estate now here's the thing In fairness that does lower your cost basis on the real estate so if you were to sell that then becomes active income you're going to have to pay the taxes the goal is that you just keep 1031 exchanging the properties you keep tax deferring it and you build a whole Nest Egg of taxfree income then eventually you die and you could leave I think as of now it's 28 million dollar taxfree to your heirs or you could do a trust and there's other things that you could do on that uh there you go complain about 28 million no so that's pretty good that be that would be crazy [ __ ] that'd be a crazy number this sounds pretty you know aggressive but have you ever considered trying like OIC um needles a really big scared BIG scared guy what if someone else does it for you it's the needles what if you don't look at it I hear it's I hear it's like a pen right isn't it one of those things the idea of a needle existing is already making my legs go queasy okay like like that's fair I I was just curious about that cuz I know a lot of people are trying It's very effective I've heard not you know advice there but I've heard it works yeah well I one thing I would be interested in it it's kind of like debt consolidation right so you still need to change the behavior else that's not going to be sustainable long term like you can debt consolidate but if you don't change the behavior You're Building those credit cards all the way back up so like I'd be open to it it wasn't if you guys ever see me become skinny it's probably not because of OIC because I'm a little [ __ ] with Nal so no tattoos either uhuh love a Bas CLE though Bas cleff right here musical B that would be cool yeah for my trombone days you know what I would do is a bass CLE on the one side in Hammer Hammer I could not do hmer hammer be a little too you don't think a hammer so egotistical just like weird yeah yeah what is a criticism that you get a lot that you think is completely invalid um no you guys brought up the interesting one earlier the what what did you guys call it uh not taking advantage are you exploiting poor people exploting yeah that that one I think because of just our entire process that people just aren't privy to it's like I can see the criticism cuz they're not informed of everything going into it but it just it feels knowing everything we do in the conversations we have with them it feels very owed listen if we never changed the process from two and a half years ago when I was just in my kitchen you know in my condo filming the show like yes okay that would be different but if we're putting in the work we're putting in the change and everyone's we're getting very positive experiences across the board except for a few misses here and there where we Chang the process yes I would agree but that just I don't know it's just it's bad takes again everyone's just one thing is it's really interesting online that I think actually no it's it's I don't know you never want to I've watched podcasts now where influencers or whatever I guess if that's what we are uh are on it and then they make a complaint and it's just like there's no point no one can relate to it it's just it's just so silly so I don't know I'm talking about like don't you hate it when you have to take your Lamborghini for service oh like I was like streaming is harder than a 9 to5 well that shit's crazy but I meant more like like uh just thinking about criticisms you know cuz no one you can't know what it's like to get that overwhelming sense of mountains of criticism and hate against you you can't you do not know what that is like until you're in the position and I always saw people do that and I was like oh what the [ __ ] dude this is you have the coolest thing in the world and I do have the coolest thing in the world now and I'm so blessed for that I do see that I never understood it before I understand oh it's overwhelming when the internet's coming after you for a second you know this is crazy this is you can't people are getting way too comfortable uh throwing hate at other people and and people are getting more and more aggressive to the point of it just being blatant bullying and people bandwagon like I see things on Instagram where I saw this really sad video recently is of a flight attendant was like a not an older lady but you know middle-aged or so and she was working a job just simply mining her own business as a flight attendant these people walk into the plane and they have this massive dog and uh it was captioned service dogs have gone too far because it was like a Great Dane or something they're bringing on the on the plane the Great Dane steps on the the flight attendant's foot and she goes ow ow and she's saying have a good day or have a safe flight to everybody that comes in but the great day Ste on her foot she said ow in kind of a disturbed tone and one of the comments was just hate for the flight attendant and it had an arrow pointing towards the like button and it had like a 100 likes and I'm thinking to myself this flight because she sounded annoyed right oh and I'm thinking to myself this person is sending 100 plus people at least that was just after it had been poed for a little bit uh at this random lady she didn't agree to be filmed she's doing her job you have no idea what she's going through she's a human like you she has her own struggles she's in her own world as are you and I'm like I it's unreal how comfortable people are just saying hate for this person like this comment and they're farming engagement for likes engagement farming but to do it in the most egregious and unacceptable way for this poor lady who had no idea what was going on and she's just doing her own job especially when someone's doing their job you know what I mean I just the thing that honestly one of my biggest pet peeves is making fun of people for whatever job that they have yeah oh yeah that's crazy I don't know and she it just really it's kind of you know riling me up right now thinking about it but it was pretty upsetting and I made a very long comment back to it oh good and I and I was like I and then I said uh hate for this comment was in I didn't say hate to this person in my response but I just said hate for this comment everything's engagement bait now I mean that's is what you're seeing everywhere I I forgot the one thing I was trying to say I got lost in my thoughts the one thing I was trying to say the thing that I think I don't like is in the world of online it's if they don't like your content they will just assume the worst about you in every instance and I think one thing that kind of sucks is I enjoy making people happy watching the content being happy and I want people to like the show and if people don't like the show that's okay that sucks it's just I don't know that's what I struggled with I think towards the beginning of this year end of last year maybe when we first met where it's just like people just assuming the worst they get parasocial they just they make all these assumptions and that that sucked but it's been a good year moved beyond that you know just kind of don't look at that stuff and just out of out of sight out of mind but I guess based on your question that that's the one thing that just kind of annoys me those two things um that criticism that you uh brought up that yeah I've seen that a couple times online I'm like gosh you don't know the process then it's just yeah people just assume the worst and it's really weird it's really weird and lastly on quitting YouTube Ah because I know you've previously mentioned quite a few times that you've always not been the biggest fan of being like a camera facing personality on YouTube you're not a huge fan of any sort of Fame even though you know I wouldn't consider YouTubers famous but they're definitely recognizable and famous to some extent sure you know what I mean uh with parasocial relationships and just being recognized uh how do you feel about that do you still want to quit YouTube no I'm I'm very happy now I'm very happy what changed B based on exactly what we were just talking about once I learned how to separate from online and just accept that not everyone's going to like me not everyone's going to like the show and that's okay and that sometime you know people will scream into the void that's okay I can I can be happy that's what used to get to me and I was just like I just want to step away from this and just help manage it now I get to meet with people every day film put out things put out episodes that are literally changing tens of thousands of people's lives and getting positive results and also entertaining people getting people to the workday the fact that we get to do that and people actually show up and watch 3 days a week is the most insane blessing in the world and I couldn't see doing anything else I love this to my core did you stop reading comments somewhere in there or did you just divorce however you're doing on a daily basis with whatever people are saying about you online I think I had a lot of fear back then of people not liking me or people saying things that weren't true and that fear has just gone away as I I went to therapy talked about it worked it with it through a therapist and also yeah I just stopped going on uh some more outrage driven places online where it's you know engagement you know you get your karma you get your like you get your whatever based on you know outrage engagement I just stopped looking at it and there's really no need to all right well I think that is it C than for being so generous at your time thank you team Caleb's got his whole team they're all helping out with this so I'm hungry well yeah we're going to link to your Channel Down Below in the description obviously if you've never seen Caleb Hammer before the channel is down below thank you so much for letting us use your studio your equipment letting us film here for the diet coke for the the coffee don't forget foros these are so neat I want you to sell these too that's the other thing these are sponsor us Neato Caleb it's always a pleasure thank thank you guys for watching till next time