“This KEEPS 99% Broke And Miserable!” - Fix THIS! | Jason & Brett Oppenheim

insecurity and a lack of confidence probably causes 90% of the problems on this planet there are people who let life happen to them and then there are people who like create their life I just see them accept defeat far too easy there is 50 different ways to get what you just asked for you just literally just gave up I have never been concerned about money I've always always felt like I'll be successful so I've just always spent like I've had it what's the point of having money if you're not going to play First Class what's your advice to someone who's thinking about buying a house right now I appreciate you guys com on so I'm curious to start this off what is one thing that you would critique about the other and one thing that you guys yeah hold on a second can we just say that warm this is crazy you guys haven't done a podcast together I don't think also I can't one thing can I do like a top 10 for sure yeah if there's too many just the biggest issues how long two hours start is that enough time okay you want me to go alphabetical numerical I think it's funny cuz Graham says you guys have some of the funniest ban you guys love to argue love to debate and apparently you guys are like philosophically a little bit different right like pretty close you say you'd say very in alignment or is it yeah I'd say very in alignment okay we we argue and debate over like Nuance like just micro nuances okay well we want to find that Nuance in this that's what we're looking for get last piece of pizza that's what about yeah it's not like philosophical debates or politics it's Pizza like whose foot whose favorite football team has the best like receiving Trio that's it yeah that's dumb what's one critique you guys have for each other I'll let you go first so I can see how like how deep going exactly deep the cut is exactly um and I want him to know there's something hanging over his head when he's talking right now I'll go after you he repeats himself when we argue that's annoying I I can get behind that I I haven't seen that from you but when people start being redundant in an argument it's like I understand you know what makes people redundant is when the other party has absolutely like no Focus or care or like m you know [ __ ] around with their phone and they just they're not listening you know that's what makes people repeat themselves right so you redundant for a purpose yeah exact out of necessity okay so these issues are aligned that's fair yeah do you think he's redundant or no probably not as much as I am okay yeah he's never admitted that he's probably just more like you know he he'll keep the debate SL argument going more than I'll be like I'm good and then he'll keep but I think he's probably less respectful in the manners in which he I don't know relates to to people generally cuz he's just I'm busier is what he's saying it's called busy you know it's like bro did you hear what I said it's called a work ethic bro did you hear what I said and he's like stop repeating yourself like dude you haven't looked up your phone in eight minutes it's funny because i' I've worked with you guys for a long time and I see both perspectives on this I think you're mostly on your phone or doing emails or like talking to someone else while Brett's talking even if it's Instagram can I cuss on this part yeah yeah go ahead even if it's Instagram you'll be like in the middle of it like dude you're like swiping left I know you're not working right now on the way here he was driving I was on a work call for 15 minutes he gets so [ __ ] annoyed so usually I just have to take my own Uber cuz he gets so annoyed that's that's insane that you take your own Uber dude but imagine picking somebody I'll come pick you up you know cuz you're kind of on the way whatever I got the music on like breeze in my hair I'm like cool morning I'm hung over his hair chill yeah we I'm chilling I'm in like perfect you know okay like the podcast coming I'm I'm like just going to relax on the way there oh oh I got a call with a veler in in Canada I'm like dude you just could have taken an Uber then I mean I got to listen to this [ __ ] the whole way here that's a good I got to turn the music down I got to put the window up now you have to accommodate pisses me up that's true yeah Point Let's see one thing that you admire in the other person oh also tons of things I admire feel like this is like marriage counsel yeah I I want to work through this Grandma was just telling me how funny it is when you guys start there tons of things that we admire you know we actually went to like a a couple's therapist well not a couple therapist well I think she's trained as a couple's therapist or maybe not I don't know why did but we went for like just to get along better yeah was there something that happened no we just were fighting a lot when was remember when we were years ago yeah yeah we're better now do you remember like 5 10 years ago it would fight way more oh it was like ridiculous we would get in fist fights in in the at lunch in the just told me a story about that yeah yeah we don't physically fight as much anymore no cuz he's like just more intimidated now for good reason Jack was wondering do you guys have a lot of aggression that just like you just have it's only Brett just naturally in our character I feel like we have a lot of you know yeah we're both Alphas so you get us together and we just fight over [ __ ] but we're not as yeah we're not as we don't have the physical confrontations way but you used toys fight we did fight we had to separate ourselves in high school like different high schools we to separate ourselves like a week ago when we were in that Uber in yeah that's true we still we still go but it's rare like once every few months we'll fight I had to jump out of an Uber in Nashville cuz I was literally like we were about to going blows yeah and I I'll meet you at the stadium how many times do you guys think I would love to see one of these fights you guys could be a main card in like a some sort of box I told I told it would be so even like yeah I think that would be a little bit you think so I'd get him you usually more cuz he bites I I don't I have more aggression so I think I I would yeah that's probably true he used to like kind of beat me up a I'll pin him I'd pin him down but that's crazy you guys end up going to blows because I have a brother not really like punching in the face more like rest L and like you know chill cold and like maybe punching in the CH we try to avoid El like we try not to actually just boom although I knocked him out cold a couple times did you yeah dude I did let's let's I want to expl like laying on the ground it's like motionless so how does it go from like just something you're disagreeing upon to like actually fighting your T brother like where does the escalation happen more and more irritation just stupidity and then one person will like you know push the other person or whatever and then it just happens and and you like fighting I'm guessing because it continues to happen no I just we can irritate each other sometimes no nobody likes I mean really like fighting you know if I get irritated or if Graham gets irritated it's not like it is never within my frame of mind of like okay same with everyone else on the plan here's the thing if you and Graham fought it would be a big deal and you could you could maybe not have the Pod for weeks who knows if you even come back to like being friends we can fight in like 30 minutes like we did in in Nashville like you know we're 20 minutes later we meet up maybe it took 15 minutes after seeing each other like relax but and later we fine yeah so you guys know no matter what yeah I think that's part of it too you just take you take for granted you take for granted the relationship and so you fight cuz you know that it's not going to damage the relationship that's really that's really different that's very unique Graham was telling me you guys were like at a getting lunch at some spot and then like across the table from each other you started like bickering and bantering forget what it was about yeah too just about something probably trivial as I'm guessing like a lot of these things it's never about anything of substance and then you were just like all right let's go outside and you guys just went into the back parking lot and we didn't see you and I I think I was with Mary and all of them are say oh you just leave them be they do this they do that like should we be worried no no no they'll come back and I think one of you yeah one of you left and then I think it was you Jason I think you just sat down like nothing had happened that tracks tracks yeah so how do you think having a twin is different from having a normal sibling uh you're just closer yeah I don't think there's a closer relationship on the planet if you work towards it than identical twins and what is that like have somebody that always keeps you in check when do you give him authority to make decisions on your behalf well it's I wouldn't put it that way I generally don't make important decisions without like us agreeing Consulting and does it have to be like a unilateral decision no no but I take his advice seriously so bilateral you mean um like like like Mutual like bilateral is that how it is I think unilateral will be one person are you a lawyer too um yeah that yeah that makes a lot of sense yeah yeah yeah it's an adviser you know that you go to I I trust his opinion as much as mine so it's hard for me to make an important decision like let's say I'm going to open up a new office somewhere I I kind of have to get Brett on board um so that I'm confident in it you know if he has reservations then I rethink my decision but how do you guys build that level of respect and Trust for each other like that 46 years of of just like seeing the person making good decisions and like earning and admiring the other person imagine if you guys had this podcast for 46 years would you would you he might actually listen to me then it's different because you guys have had a very similar if not the same upbringing yeah so I think going through that and being related ties that even closer than Jack and I but I'm just trying to give some perspective would you wor would you worry about what guests he's going to bring on or what questions he'd ask or whether he can after 46 years of this no you know you've seen everything 10 times that's a good point yeah I what okay so did you guys actually have you had to be in different high schools yeah yeah my McDonald's is here I I don't want to continue bringing this back to the fighting but for me my McDonald's is here oh yeah yeah sure sure thanks Budd so I I can't believe that you guys had to be separated intentionally because of the the fighting all through most of through high school when did that start at what age did you guys start most of our fighting was probably four five probably start 14 was our wor was there ever genuine like hatred you think but it was mostly trivial it was never anything but it was always trivial we never did anything but love each other more than anyone else on the planet that's the fighting isn't about you know like I don't like you as a person it's just I want yeah I think you know raise like basically by our mom and when we saw our dad you have a brother I have an older brother yeah you guys fought now but I was I mean he he was two and a half years older than me so there was a bit of a size difference for most of the time we were growing up so I would be like the provoker I would annoy him and then he would fight and it's like I can't do anything you know he's way bigger than okay so you could imagine though if you guys were like pretty tight the exact same size things could have been different yeah yeah how about Graham uh half sister but how much of that fighting do you think is because you put on the ground don't take up the ho no yeah exactly like wow this big for $4.99 is such a great deal huh Graham uh how much of the fighting though do you think is because you were Twins and very competitive with each other and proving that like hey I I have a oneup like I'm the better twin no zero yeah okay it was literally just two Alphas in a room you know do like what's going to happen this Alpha stuff because that's kind of been like blowing up recently with like the alpha mindset Alpha mentality oh yeah why do you say that you're an alpha how how do you determine if you're I mean I could technically be using that term wrong but I'm pretty sure you know just kind of a naturally aggressive kind of if you're in a room with a bunch of people you're or you know your boys you're probably going to be the guy making the decisions you're probably going to be kind of like you know one of the bigger presence in the room just not not on purpose it's just your personality you know and was someone else like that and you and you kind of want to get your way and you kind of just have like that a large presence in your personality but first if you're in business just like us I'm sure you're well aware that problems are everywhere for example there was actually a scheduling issue that made it so Graham couldn't be in the studio to record this with me sorry Jack and there Comes A Time in every business when the problem that you've been ignoring needs to be handled Graham I said I'm sorry Jack if you're getting frustrated with how you've been selling whether that be online or in person I could not recommend you guys try out our sponsor Shopify enough Shopify is the e-commerce platform that's already helped transform millions of businesses worldwide for example you can customize your online store with flexible templates and Powerful tools and with a single dashboard you can manage orders shipping and payments from anywhere in the world here's a fun fact what sets Shopify apart from its competitors is its ability to turn browsers into buyers with the internet's best converting checkout that's 36% better on average compared to other leading e-commerce platforms and Shopify actually Powers 10% of all e-commerce in the United States supporting Brands like Alberts rooies and Brooklyn in over 175 countries in fact my coffee company bankroll coffee run exclusively through Shopify and I did a ton of research on the best e-commerce platform to use and they've been fantastic plus they have an incredible support team there to guide you every step of the way I can attest to this so sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com again that's shopify.com take your business to the next level shopify.com thank you so much Shopify and back to the podcast this is something I want to I want to understand on a deeper level because something that Graham I feel like learned a lot from the both of you is this kind of like Alpha presence Alpha mentality and now I'm not saying gra Gram's I would never admit to such a thing but a lot of the times when I go to advice for Graham he is kind of just like a relay for your advice that you guys haveed on every single time he's like well I remember having this talk about you know this or whatever about with Brett or Jason or something and he just relays it and it's always the same kind of like stoic no nonresponsive uh non-responsiveness to certain things and like being precise and like this Alpha mindset and I'd say we don't take no for an answer which is probably somewhat Alpha but our dad had like a motto of whatever it takes and I think we have that instilled in us like we just get what we want by working for yeah you kind of have in the back of your mind like this is going to happen just a matter of how difficult it is and that's the the mindset from which you operate but I don't think I do that on purpose that's kind of just in my blood I'm glad I'm able to impart some of that you think you got that from or do you think you were kind of raised in that both my parents are kind of alpha I would say but um yeah that's something my bones like I don't I never write a book on how to be alpha or anything or watch videos I just was that we were that way from four years old and it's not like necessarily something that we're bragging about when I say Alpha I'm just using it as a purely descriptive term I'm not sure it's advant it's probably advantageous in life in some ways and disadvantageous in others so I'm not like telling everybody be Alpha necessarily in what ways would it be bad well you people the wrong way we also I think get frustrated at um things that that we think can be done better so you can you can get irritated and frustrated at other things because you just want to take over and do it MH so it's kind of hard to delegate it's kind of hard to uh for people to live up to your expectations if you're not in control of something it bothers you I could see it shouldn't probably the alpha personality for lack of a better term we're just assuming we we'll assign that word to this thing we're describing could be could make it challenging to get very close to certain people I feel like it it it makes you pe people seem a little bit more distant we have very close relationship with friends and family we probably okay but to to enter through to break through to that to be a part of the close Circle would you say it's more challenging because yeah could those people lead because you would need to be the one in charge because I've noticed even hanging around you you're usually the one that says oh we're going to go to this place tonight and oh we have this connection over here let's go there and everyone else that's with you is like yeah that's that's great and you don't really find lot of conflict no I don't want to go there to hard for alas to be together just like in the wild that's why Brett I fight because we're you know we we you disagree on mean you can learn about Alpha Behavior by watching National Geographic you don't have to interview US I mean we're just animals humans are just animals and we act in very similar ways to two alpha Lions hanging out in the in the wild they're not going to do very well together they're going to have to have their own Prides and when they come together there's probably going to be some scuffles and they could be brothers but it's not that much different than like Alpha and anim in the wild that's where the term came from I you think it could be learned I don't know if it you'd want it to be learned I think yes I think we learn I think we learned it too I think it's nature and nurture absolutely yeah we're I think there's part of being Alpha that's probably beneficial in life and I maybe would impart for some people to try to learn that which is achieving your goals I want to say no matter what cost because that seems a bit extreme but have it in the back of your mind a lot of people like I'm when I'm talking to some people in the office or just some people in life I just see them accept defeat far too easy it absurdly easily and I'm just like what there is 50 different ways to get what you just asked for you just literally just gave up so I would impart that you know get it in your mind this is going to happen and then and then when you get that in your mind and you effectuate it with that mindset then the next time you're oh [ __ ] I really can't make that happen like you know sometimes you're in a traffic jam like usually especially in like second and third world countries and there's some people just sit in the line like forever and someone opens a door gets out and starts directing traffic that's us like we'll get out make this guy go in here make this guy pull over here and get this going like I'm not going to sit here for an hour there's no effing way I'm sitting where did you learn that behavior though cuz I feel like there's got to be something where you've seen it and then started modeling that as you I mean I'd say well both of our parents but I'd say our dad particularly has I don't do you think it was learned do you think if we were raised a different parents I think I still feel like we'd be this way well I don't think we'd be as much cuz I think they instilled a lot of confidence in us and like made us believe that we could you know succeed at what we do and then also we saw them you know very persistent I mean our dad would not be someone that would take no I think that's totally fair but I think it's a mix cuz I also feel like it's in my bones you know and you'd have to like beat it out of me no matter who raised me but it's probably accentuated by my parents at what age did you start living with your dad my understanding he took over when you guys were not doing so well in school and put you on a different path I got expelled when I was a sophomore in high school what did you do oh just dumb [ __ ] we got sent to boarding schools and then I got exp well we both got expelled so my dad took me in um after the sophore 15 or 16 and then Brett got expelled like six months after me what did you do oh I mean it was likeu weed and fighting and nothing crazy but you know when you when you had a board in school they're not super tolerant I was never good with authority neither of us were good with authority from day one yeah um yeah so our childhoods were you know I don't think Alphas are good with authority yeah that's another issue with being Al so how did your dad handle that my dad's also not good with authority when my dad took us it was like well this is actually ironically like if you need to I we're this is devolving into like just a full Alpha conversation but if you need to control an alpha it has to be full basic just structure and dominance it's the only way to keep an alpha in check so my dad literally took over our Liv like that's that's why the Marines is probably good for Alphas you know because they don't have a choice you have to put them in such a structured environment that they have no choice but if you give them like you know a bunch of outs they're going to take the outs so with my daddy just smothered us with like rules and and with backed by like you know do not break this you know we were like scared you know it's not like he would beat us or anything but I mean there was like this level of authority that we were like oh this isn't so but what level of authority was at that you wouldn't disobey those those rules I mean well I think you have to be you have to be scared imposing yeah you have to be scared of the cons scared of physical consequences which I'm I don't I don't think that's a bad thing I know that I'm not supposed to say that I think it helped my brother and I immensely that uh our dad would you know like well let me just be clear though make sure that we didn't really good at never hitting us ever in our entire lives but always being physically imposing and threatening enough that we would like just not want to mess with him you know and which I think is like great fathering you know because you never should touch your kid and he never would I mean he might push us up against the wall and scream and tell he peed our pants practically but he would never like ever hit us or hurt us ever yeah you just have to be scared of like the consequence I think like my mom our mom would could not keep us in check and then she would try to spank us or whatever around us 50 different Little Things it never worked sced plus when she spanked like you know she'd spank us with like spoons and we would just be like you know once we realized like it that it only hurt so much then she was because then we would just sit there and she just was hopeless and I I feel bad but my dad like you know we felt like we they were divorced at the time just to be clear so yeah so he um yeah he straightened us out when we were like 15 16 I mean like you're go through like kind of the regimen well he would wake us up at like 5:00 a.m. and we'd go in the garage and work out so that would be the like the start he you know took our baggy clothes off our earrings off you know shaved my goatee took out the earring like he'd dress us um drop us off at school pick us up from school we'd go to his office where he was a you know a professor at the you didn't miss a class I mean it's like you don't just do our HK Marines basically no friends no time to get in trouble like literally he made sure for the first year that we had not even 10 minutes to ourselves so we just couldn't get in trouble sounds like a really intelligent person he also he's also a marine and he learned that and he teaches sociology and he's he's quite introspective and he he was and this isn't to say my dad's a better parent than my mom it's just that he had the skill set to control us as like you know the types of kids that we were and for my mom it was really difficult for someone else my mom would have been you know probably the perfect parent my dad wouldn't have maybe you know been as yeah we at it most kids don't need like you know a physically imposing consequence but we did because we were pretty out of we didn't listen to anybody whether it's a teacher or a parent like we were just you know the police like we just didn't care about anything when did you start to enjoy that structure that he was giving to you or did you res during the time it was always a nightmare it only about a year until then then once he had us like you know structured then he backed off and then we had actually an unbelievable amount of Freedom like then it was just you know cart Blan once he trusted us it was anything you want buy his kegs for parties I mean it was like whatever cuz he's like okay you're not going to miss a class you're not doing drugs you're not you're not drinking and driving you're not doing these things and I know you're not going D I trust you with that and he was right to trust us we wouldn't and then it's like okay do whatever you want then we'll get I'll get you a house I'll get you he he would rent us he rented us a house and we would throw parties like it was a frat house he would get his kegs and stuff but how does he have that confidence that you're not going to slip back into those routines that you had I think we just to demonstrate a trust over time yeah and we never did slip back in those routines ever we were smart kids like almost probably too smart so that's probably why I think we were bored and we would just act out but once we kind of got more into school and we had more structured environment then we started apply in ourselves and he could tell that we were not going to like you know slip back did you realize that was just a better way to live than the other way so you made the own personal decision like once I have this structure I tested it out I got good results I like this I'm going to stick with this or yeah I think that's right you I think maybe but also there was consequences if if we ever did slip back cuz we would probably lose the freedom oh that's a good point you still did have those consequences he just kind of allowed you to have more freedoms right but first if you're on a business I'm sure you're well aware just how complicated things can get for example the scheduling issue which is exactly why Graham isn't in here with the studio with me filming this I said I'm sorry Jack trying to keep all your goals tasks and data organized in several different software sometimes ends up actually taking more time than it's worth if you're looking to streamline your business but you aren't sure where to start keep these three numbers in mind from our sponsor Nets week 3625 and 1 36,000 because 36,000 companies have already upgraded to netsuite and stopped wasting time on things like manual data entry and sifting through scattered data 25 because netwe has spent 25 years helping businesses Drive down their costs and one because netsu is an all-in-one solution that allows you to manage all of your kpis or key performance indicators with one efficient system Nets can help reduce the mistakes from manual data entry and prevent the busy work from scaling with your business so right now download netsuite's kpis checklist for free check out netsuite.com that's IED again that's nets.com to get your free kpis checklist once again completely free nets.com thank you so much netsuite and back to the episode and at what point did you guys want to get into law pretty early on I'd say like cuz we were you know that whole argumentative nature that we have cuz we thought we were going to be like we wanted to be a car mechanic we want to be this I would say maybe like in college well I think we considered it like kind of our whole lives cuz our mom would always be like you guys stop lawyering me you know what I mean cuz that's how we'd argue it almost innate for us to like argue like lawyers true but we did want to be mechanics probably until you know high school or even through high school so I guess it was always like maybe a tiny background possibility but not really considered until look I mean I think a lot of it was what the hell are we going to do we're about to graduate I'm not going to get a job you know isn't that why a lot of kids go to law school well but we took pre-law in at Berkeley yeah an undergrad so we wanted to be we Lov the law just because it's like a I don't know it's to me it kind of defines the world you know in a way it's like it's understanding the rules of society is kind of a a good way to beat the rules you know it's also the way our brains work like some people's Brands work in science and math that wasn't us yeah we're very analytical and like you know logical so it was we loved law school not many people did but I really school it kind of makes sense because it seems like your entire life you were kind of using authority to your own benefit and understanding where you can slip through the loopholes of authority very similar to like understanding the laws and then kind of like the flexibility of the laws our brains exactly like yeah like like professors want your brain to work it does make sense that you would go into that but it's funny how when you say like we went into law it's like we went into law it's not just like I it's like it was a group kind of a bilateral you know subconscious maybe like agreement you know so was it one of you guys that kind of spearheaded that no I think no recollection I don't remember I don't remember any it just like just you guys both woke up on the same exact morning and then just looked at each other like we're going in no I don't even it was very gradual I don't remember any particular it probably a gradual like you know let's take the elsat that's probably just in case we want to you know like okay sure let's take the elide and then well you know let's these poly side classes are we should probably take some pre-lock classes sure and then you know I mean I guess we're can go to La school yeah cool I don't know it's probably more like that than it was like waking up in the morning right and then you guys ended up practicing law you presided over like that Enron case which I like we did a whole study of that in my business law class which is really fun I didn't know that you did that and then you were the first one that was like I want to be or you wanted to travel travel yeah well I hated the law what did you hate most about law I didn't hate the law per se I hated being a lawyer I hated being a corporate lawyer I hated anything about Corporate America it was like because I mean like think listen to everything I've said you know for the last half an hour about my personality and then put me in a box and have people just tell me what to do that's essentially what it was and I was like by box I mean like an office granted it was you know with views in the tallest building in the west coast but it was still like a box and I was absolutely miserable eating at me psychologically like every day it was absolutely miserable even to this day it's like it's scarring even to think about those years really yeah but by all a available data like you probably were making more money oh you had more status than ever you had fed your ego right I was one of the top law firms in the country making 150k at 26 and 19 and 2000 or whatever I my own secretary I was balling by any objective measure how nervous were you to give that up not very because I was so miserable so it made the decisions really easy after a while I just hit to a point I remember I was like 3 years in um they were trying to give me this [ __ ] ass case I mean absolutely just disgusting case it was like one of those cases that you know they just dread giving to anybody but I just got sucked into it and I just and I CU I didn't wake up that morning thinking I was going to leave and I just like you know what no I'm done and I went back to my office and I uh I drafted a resignation email and walked into the managing partner's office like an hour after this like it literally it all happened to that hour and I said uh I'm going to be leaving the LA he's like oh what firm are you going to lateral to I'm like no no no I'm like I'm out I bought a one way ticket to London I think during that hour I [ __ ] you not and he's like what are you going to do I remember this conversation actually he's like what are you going to do you're not going to transfer to another firm I'm like I'm just going to travel and he's like looked at me for a second and it was like half confusion but half jealousy you know and then he's like all right well I wish you the best of luck and I walked out and I was like I mean I put in my I had two I had two weeks but I mean pretty much that they didn't give me the case I didn't like work another hour right and I was like that was it it was weird did you have the savings to be able to do that no so how did you fund the oh I had a Jan Sport with my shoes dangling from the shoelaces tight at the JanSport and I just took off to Costa Rica and it was the beginning of a fouryear journey and I came make money for four years well I did like a couple little things in real estate uh I came back pretty significant in debt with my bro and my mom and my dad when I was done traveling I was like 100k in debt it was you know not the most genius idea on on paper yeah but you know I look back at that time as pretty pretty awesome you know what's cool is a lot of people think that in order to change you need to make the change desirable but a lot of the times it's just staying the same being so undesirable that Spurs the change rather yeah for me it was that everyone's like oh my God you're so you're so ballsy you're so how do you how did you have the balls to do I was like honestly like I couldn't take another day it was it was the easiest decision ever there's no balls necessary you know that's the way I look at it yeah and what prompted you to follow that did you see him traveling or just like CU I'm more of a grinder so I can like I can put my head down and I can grind pretty hard so that's what I was doing so I wasn't as unhappy as him um but yeah seeing him traveling you know all around the world I was like and within about six months I I said I have to quit too and then the economy took a [ __ ] and then everyone started traveling every Banker lawyer and so it was like a group of us yeah so we just friend traveling with so we spent over three years just traveling the world uh just sold everything we owned you know literally I think everything except a backpack and some clothes we would come back to the US you know every few months do some laundry say hi to the family and we take off again didn't have a winter for four years we're not worried about making money I was worried the whole the whole time I I like a lowgrade background anxiety the whole time you know which is actually when I came back to the states after four years I I got really run down and sick for a long time like a year really I think it was all that like low-grade anxiety building up and just eating at my hor hormonal system but not to say I didn't enjoy those times but yeah it wasn't physically probably the greatest thing on my body I didn't have that much anxiety I oh you were just came back in 40 Grand yeah I left with 100 Grand I'd saved over like four years of being a lawyer 100 Grand which is just embarrassing because you think about what it takes to get a house right now and I spent four years at like a top law firm and you know I was making like 250 a year and I saved 100 Grand were you just spending a whole bunch of money no I wasn't I was living in a one bedroom apartment for most of then how did you not have money it's just hard to save I mean you're make even if you're making 200 Grand a year and you're paying taxes you probably clear like 120 you spend you know probably at least 75 of that so you're saving like 30 if you're gram it lives on a day I wasn't gram you know I brought my coffee from home so I save some money on that yeah were you Frugal or no no we've always no that's the thing I picked up on like I heard you guys have a crazy clothing budget like it doesn't even we have a crazy everything budget we definitely enjoy spending money we enjoy having fun and and the nice things in life so I would say we're the opposite of frugal we also have no kids no girlfriends no pets what you kind of have pets I mean we don't have that much responsibility so it's like yeah okay fine but you know what I mean we just don't have that much responsibility so it's not like we're blowing our kids inheritance or or not being able to send them to college if we like do something dumb but does part of you think like you know I would like to settle down I would like to you know buy a ranch and then go be a like you know what I mean no not not a single I mean maybe should I have should I have taken more time on that so it didn't seem like no no I I love the resounding no yeah I'm pretty happy single I mean I have tried you know a couple times but I'd say it's probably in the future for me if I'm going to settle down and I don't even know if I will but if I'm going to get married it's probably not going to be anytime too soon but one of the main arguments is that like it's kind of a long-term investment you don't really see the the the the growth the gains of it until later down the line when you're like 80 and you're like well I've been with this person for 40 know so in we have each other though so I but you guys aren't kissing right unless if maybe you I don't know make up after the fight that's how you solve the problem but get well go ahead if you think about I think why a lot of people get married or are um wanting of a serious relationship if you really get down to it I think it's because they don't want to feel alone in the world kissing it's not but really though it's like being it's having a someone to call when something good having someone to call when something bad happens someone's going to be there if something ever goes wrong with your health anything like just you're not alone in the universe there you have that that person I think that's why people really seek these relationships you can get sex or kissing elsewhere you can't get what I'm talking about elsewhere you need a partner you need typically a partner you know like a sexual partner like a wife or whatever it is and if you have Rel if you already have those needs fulfilled the nonsexual ones then you know I think naturally the desire for that disappears I'm speculating the need that is so fascinating that you say that because because okay this is I don't know if I'm getting a dicey territory here but the type of emotional connection that I have with a couple of my boys like my friends the people that I am so close to is like a hundred times what I have ever had in my entire life with someone who I'm like a like a intimate partner with you know what I mean and now when you're saying it it's like I mean you're just doing what you want right you see the value there and it's more valuable doing that than finding a maybe some woman that you don't have that emotional con we really close relationships with many women and men so we have like a very healthy like friendships that I think so I get in some ways so much from my friendships my my brother that I would get in a relationship but your emotional stimulation and and that sort of stuff is Satisfied by exactly I also just like being alone tooo like it is awesome to come home put my dog on my lap and watch TV let me let me just I think I would be more than able to connect to a partner not in the same way we do emotionally because we don't have the history but in a way that's incredibly fulfilling I've had some incredibly fulfilling relationships with women psychologically emotionally physically and in ways that you know that I don't have with him it's not that I can't get that and that I don't enjoy that it's just that that type of relationship other than the one with your you know that I have with him or the one that you have with your boy there's massive compromise associated with it that's the issue I don't think issues that I can't connect in that way or that I don't want to uh it's the the compromise that comes with it I don't compromise [ __ ] with him if he tells me to do something I tell him the [ __ ] off he's not really good at at I'm much better at compromising your boys seems so I'm better in relationships like I can just be your boys don't make you compromise do they I mean no you know so and a girlfriend does so that's the difference or a wife certainly does would you guys ever live in the same house no we would fight we've tried we lived in the same house for a couple years we fought every day oh it's brutal so no we'll never live in the same house he's like a child the way even working together can't even work in the same office yeah it's tough if it wasn't for his assistant and his like inh house basically Nanny his house would be a disaster oh my God living with him was a disaster I'm like really I imagine you to be so clean I would see everything gu now I don't like I don't clean but but yeah here's the thing like if if his I call her a nanny isn't isn't there adult Nanny if if she doesn't show up for 3 Days the sink is like he literally won't she's coming back on Friday I'm like dude but it doesn't mean you can't like you know that's that's so imagine that but with no nanny living with that but with no nanny it's brutal I will not do a dish I haven't I it will sit in the sink until Monday and that gives me anxiety like one dish in the sink is me I was like my place has to be spotless so it was brutal living with him I've never thought like I feel like a very fulfilling life could just be living near doesn't have to be in the same house as like your boys right and then you get all the Fulfillment and satis you need out of that and then elsewhere you can find else you we very fulfilled I would say I mean we are very two very happy people I would say very fulfilled um and we get we're very close with our family very close with both male and female friends we have each other and we have great relationships when we're in them um so yeah I mean we yeah we do have great female relationships just not like the the long-term monogamous but outstanding relationships with women have you always been good with women I've been curious about this um a whole life just at what at what age did that start that you realize hey maybe um we yeah at an early age yeah yeah but I wouldn't say until maybe High School I started like batting out of my league I guess you would call it I don't know u in high school yeah it wasn't like I was like I wasn't dating the cutest girl in the school in middle school or but we always our weight class and say with women and how do you do that what what ask that all the time I have no idea that that's in your bones yeah you'd have to ask the women that we date it's hard for me to answer that that just has to be in your natural personality your natural demeanor your natural conf a lot of it's confidence but again we weren't coached in confidence we just a lot of this is is in your bones I'm not to say you can't improve as a person but speaking from I mean correct me if you disagree but I I was born that way and I'm not bragging I'm lucky you know do you feel like I still think it's I think I don't think it's uh nature as much as nurture I think you're minimizing the influence our parents had but I think it is nature nurture do you think your height has held you back or made it better for you in such a way that you stand out I'd say neither you know I don't think about it I don't I think if we were 63 with these personalities we would it would be scary it would be scary yeah I think God only gives you so much you know and we don't really I've never we don't really dwell on things you know so I don't really think about it that yeah I'll go like years without thinking about maybe that's why it doesn't matter cuz it doesn't matter to us but then all of a sudden it doesn't matter like I've definitely been with women who Chelle is a perfect example she would if you had talked to her before she met me she would have never been with someone under like 62 63 so sometimes you know the women just don't expect it then yeah I've been with women that like tall guys I've been with six foot multiple dated multiple women 6 feet tall it is really I think what they're attracted to is your personality and your the way you carry yourself I'll give you an example um I went to the a doctor's office years ago new doctor had never met him and I was in the chair waiting for me he came up and he you know shook my hand like you we were standing and I shook his hand and we talked for a little bit and then we both sat back down and he was like taking my you know weight eye color whatever height he's like what are you like 5'11 6 and I thought he was [ __ ] with me you know I'm like yeah and he's like how tall are you I'm like bro I we just met I was stud right I was I'm 55 he's like oh I don't know I just you struck me like after meeting I just F like you were six feet tall and I I think that's how women like look at it they just I mean yeah some women really don't like the height issue but honestly if you just naturally have like an aura about you of like I don't give a [ __ ] how tall I am and and trust me I'm you're going to you know I'm you're not going to regret dating me they don't they don't they don't get a [ __ ] nobody really does yeah it's interesting you guys do surround yourself with very tall people a lot of people in the office were all like six foot and they also wear heel all the time heels you know a lot of my friends are I don't even notice how you know I I had a friend well Omar and I had they're both I think 6'4 yeah I had no idea I think I was asking them for some reason how tall they were and he said 6'4 I'm like what like if you would asked me the day before I would like 510 like I don't see height cuz almost everyone's taller than me right which by the way uh that reminds me because there's very few people that can wear my clothes but I have clothes that don't fit me anymore so I'm going to give them to you they're nice too right cuz I know you won't buy yourself nice St on the Pod cuz this thing's okay I'll go get them and give them to this whole this whole outfit by the way I think this is yours RS uh pants Jason he wears your clothes every single time I come over he's like I got him this new outfit and he goes he goes it's nice every single when I saw this I'm like are you sure this doesn't fit me cuz oh my God your best piece ofo CRA this is this is a suede St laurant jacket I wore it one time no way dude I'm so pissed it doesn't fit me and then matching St La uh pants cuz I tailored them too much that's like a $3,500 jacket and it's going to fit you like a glove I knew it look at that come on that is insane if any wealthy viewer has some old clothes that doesn't fit them anymore please reach out to me oh my gosh DM me that's crazy thank you I tried to I tried to let the arms out perect I know that's crazy I took it to the Tor last week I'm like take the the sleeves out cuz my arms are getting too big and they said they can't so I'm like [ __ ] Graham I know a guy with really small arms that's why I stop working do not edit that out of the out of the so this nonf frugality that you guys have is very funny when you jux suppose it with Grahams insane FR insane frugality still doesn't get double chicken when we go to Chipotle and he just asks for a little bit more instead and hopes that they don't charge him it's insane I love it about I would take him to lunch every day when we were agents together and we'd go to like the you know Chipotle or what's that tokaya Taya and he would I was paying so he would get like a large lunch and he would eat half of it and then he would box it half up and if anyone at the table he would always grab everything that everyone left and put it in the Box for his dinner yeah every single day or the next day I remember I asked you once I was like dude how much do you have to be worth for you to like go into a Trader Joe's or because you'll never go into Whole Foods and just not give a [ __ ] what the blueberries cost or what the what nothing C just not give a [ __ ] you know and and he's like 100 million dude I think he'll always remember when we 50 million maybe 50 I think it went down to 50 I think I talked him down to 50 inflation though you might bring $20 blue we went gambling and he lost like 20 bucks on Blackjack and he was devastated oh it ruins his night I was like dude you have a problem Furious when he and he like balls up his fist and like so upset yeah he's scared he's going to hit me or something that's a joke that's a joke but yeah he does get very upset when he loses money or has to SP did you learn that or is that in your bones I think that was in my bones I think I've always just so now you know what I mean when I say something's in my bones it's like you have to beat that out of me we're literally the opposite I have never been concerned about money I've always always felt like I'll be successful so I've just always spent like I've had it even when I didn't I mean when I was uh when I graduated law school I had no no money obviously I was in a little bit of debt and I took my summer associate paychecks and I went to a lender and I bought a $100,000 SL 500 Mercedes and I hadn't even passed the bar exam yet so I had1 $110,000 car I put zero money down this is back when you could do that in like in early 2000s and I pulled up as a first year well luckily I passed the bar and pulled up as a first year associate driving the nicest car entire parking gar from really we went from $300 cars to just like $100,000 why did you need that though why that I just enjoyed it I thought it was a cool car like I've always could we've always just you know spent like we were going to be successful I don't necessarily Rec this is not this is horrible advice say to make that don't follow this also the thing is oddly enough I don't think we cared and when we came back from traveling we we we left very prestigious you know successful and financially rewarding jobs came back I was driving my grandpa's like 1974 like gold linoln Navigator it was overheating all the time it was like a $900 car I actually sold it for $900 um at it to a gas station and I didn't care like I was living in a one-bedroom apartment with Alex like you know going back between the bed and the uh couch like every month I was still happy when we our happiest years you know we're really happy now but we were you know working on our hot rods and eating you know uh eating burritos out of the you know Roach Coach and just wearing you know tank tops and going to the gym and no money and no cares I mean I I think we've never been concerned about being there there was a year where we went to Subway 360 of the 365 days because they had like dollar 6 in sandwiches and whatever the dollar 6inch sandwich was that day we we were super happyy like we had our friends we would just work out we had our you know our hot rods where do you get that inner confidence from I confidence it's just to I never thought things would but you were comfortable if they like it didn't matter if you were back on someone's couch in somebody's apartment right well it would matter if I was a failure like it would matter if I wasn't successful successful or working towards something which one no I'm okay working towards something okay but I would not be happy and I would not be able to live with myself if I wasn't becoming successful becoming there we go if I didn't see like a growth you know pattern for myself so it doesn't mean that I you know can eat from a food truck every day I'm fine with that as long as I know that I'm I'm working towards something can can I give you a a esoteric but really interesting example if if it might be a bit hard to follow but if you really get it I think it's like one of the best things you can learn in life if I can get this correct they they did um they did testing on experiment on mice and there was three different groups of mice again it's horrible that they do this but just follow the so so 50 mice 50 mice in like three different cages I guess and they would subject them they they gave all 150 mice uh serum that gave him a 50% chance of getting cancer okay brutal but just follow they subjected the mice to different I'm going to try to get this right um sets of electric shocks okay and the electric shocks so there was there was 50 that got no electric shocks just the serum so 24 of the 50 got cancer right around 25 of them got got cancer then there was 50 mice that were that were subjected to Electric shocks randomly they could do nothing about it the mice just they couldn't do anything they just got electric shocks every once in a while and then there was 50 mice that got electric shocks but if they ran over to a pedal and pushed the pedal the electric shocks would stop but they were subjected to and this is important the same amount of aggregate electric shocks than the 50 mice that couldn't that didn't have the pedal okay so same amount of electric shocks but 50 of the mice had no umol no control over their their outcomes no control over stuff the shocks and 50 of the mice had an illusion of control they could go push the pedal and stop the shocks but they were still getting the same amount of shocks the 50 mice that had no control of the um of their lives essentially 80% of them got cancer just because of the the psychological wear of that of that you know basically torture I already told you 50% of the mice that got no shocks got the cancer because the serum give you a 50% chance of getting cancer the 50 mice that got shocked but had the an an illusion of control over their lives that could push the pedal and stop the shocks temporarily got less cancer than the group of mice that had no electric shocks at all and I think that's very true if if you can follow that with humans you don't have to have a good life you have to feel like you're in control of your of your future like you have a sense of purpose it is not amount of electric shocks in your life you know just whatever is coming at you in life that makes you happy or or makes you even physically healthy it is just and so he can be on a couch or whatever it is rotating with his friend that it's not the circumstances per se that make your life happy or make it even um healthy for your physical being it's your illusion of okay I'm going somewhere or I am I'm in the process of becoming successful or I feel like empowered in some way I feel like I have a sense of purpose and then you can even have a shittier life than a lot of other people but you're actually physically healthier and happier if that it does make it's a weird way to but I when I read this this my study it like blew my mind and it's so able to human beings like we were as happy in junior college you going to edit that out was that just a ramble I loved it and I've actually heard some I think I heard that study or a study it's a famous study that's been duplicated and it's really has interesting findings if you get into it but good yeah I'm just saying like is happy as I'd say we are now I think that we were equally happy you know when we were 20 years old at Community College you know with no money you know sleeping on a couch but working towards law school you know working our way through school because we had a purpose like we knew where we were going so we had a plan and you know we just had friends we were hanging out working out and so such amazing years we've never needed you know success or you know a ton of money I never thought I would be this you know financially successful but I've been happy for a long time you know well before I had any success just because I had good friends and I I had a plan do you I mean have you heard of like the the happiness Baseline the theory that everybody has a certain happiness Baseline it's predetermined by the time you're born and then throughout life obviously you'll go above it you'll go beneath it but generally speaking you're always going to return to your Baseline some people's baselines are very low it's like a two or a three five being average seven maybe you're a pretty happy person some people are just happy all the time and something horrible can happen to them maybe they like lose an arm or something like that and they'll go down but then they end up going right back to that Baseline do you believe in that or do you think that the Baseline can be adjusted and you can truly make long-term effects on your happiness levels over time oh I definitely think you can I mean you can have a good relationship um you know a uh healthy you know relationship with your family you can have financial success um there's a lot of things that can improve your Baseline I think for sure but but also I agree with I think there's a lot of Merit in what you're saying I don't think that those two things can't live in the same world what you're saying and what he yeah I agree with the Baseline now there are some people who are just naturally little Happ depressed and there some people who are naturally just I think there's a lot of Merit to that you can definitely adjust it yeah what he's saying is you can adjust it you can go from a two to a seven right you know but uh but I think I think there's a lot of Merit to that yeah I've just noticed some people people like especially growing up you know with people I went to elementary school with like they seemed happy back then and they've always continued to be happy even through pretty trag tragic events that have happened in their life and they say stay the exact same there are people who let life happen to them and then there are people who like create their life if you're like I would say that we're people who just create our life but maybe you were predetermined to do that and and that is I think that's true indicative of a higher Baseline you know I think that's right I think people with purpose are generally happier so um in that sense you can if you give yourself self purpose or you find purpose in your life you can increase your Baseline but I do think there are people with low baselines that can make a lot of good decisions and work really hard towards being happy and it's it's 10 times as hard for them to be happy as it is for somebody who's naturally happy so there I think there's a lot of Merit to that there's also a problem there cuz we had hormos on the podcast he said one thing that really stuck out to me which is like if you think that achieving a certain something will make you happy you are creating a dissonance between where you are currently and what you need in order to become happy and therefore you're placing all the importance in the ends and not necessarily in the means and the people that are truly happy in this life pay place all the importance on the means no a lot of people don't enjoy the process they are they're so focused on yeah there there are very few people that like oh when I'm 65 I'm going to retire and I'm be everything's like you know at that and they don't really enjoy it up to that point none of those people are when they get the retirement when they get the whatever it is they're always like what the really this was what it about you said I really liked it was that every 6 months every 3 to six months you re-evaluate where your happiness is on a scale and if it's going down you you change your circumstances so that you'll be happier and you do this in business relationships friendships whatever it might be I found that really insightful I think it's really helpful for people what metrics do you use to gauge your happiness I'm I I'm guessing you probably do something similar right just we do wonder I I ask a lot of uh I ask a lot of my friends like I'll be like hey how um you know how's your happiness been the last 6 months one to 10 and then you know some people will hem and ha well be like it's up and down I'm like I know I know but just overall um I do that to my myself all the time like I make sure that I'm at least a seven if I'm going several months and my average happiness isn't a seven then I I adjust something what do you adjust like do you know it could it could be relationship it could be work um it could I I have to analyze why I'm not happy I could go you know I see a therapist uh so they probably know you pretty intimately as well they're like hey I noticed you're spending a lot of time lately on this or you're missing out on this and you're getting influences like you're asking people maybe like hey what does it seem like I'm lacking and then they give that yeah I mean I will see a therapist and kind of like walk through what's going on and you found good results from diagnosing the issue and truly actually solving the underlying yeah I'd say I mean I can adjust my happiness like about a point just by like maybe I'm working too hard you know um maybe I need more vacation maybe uh I'm not you know happy in a relationship or maybe um I need more purpose or maybe I want to you know or maybe I'm spending too much I mean I'll just figure out like why I'm a little off-kilter you haven't been working out maybe yeah or maybe I haven't been I realiz too much too little so what I find interesting in that is the underlying belief that you have not total but a lot of control over your just general happiness because I feel like it's kind of a taboo topic now where a lot of people think that like you just kind of are a product of the environment and you can't necessarily take control of your own happiness and do certain things and oh you go to the gym you wake up at this time you drink a lot of water this will actually make you happy lot is that a product of our times I'm not keen to that I mean it's like a thing now like like personal development self-development and stuff like that people toss it out the window they think like oh that's a bunch of I think there has become a very significant victim mentality going on right now in society where I think people rather than take the initiative and and not make excuses people are making excuses for themselves a lot I and maybe this is just my perspective but I do feel like a lot of people these days are making excuses as opposed to like the way we grew up we would not make excuses for ourselves we would just go fix it and we're also not types to like listen to self-help stuff we're just like it's not that complicated to go to the gym and go out socially and just do basic things that are good for your body and your soul it's not you don't I don't personally need to listen to a 14-part uh series on or or read books on that kind of stuff it's funny that was one of the the big clips from Andrew Tate was that if you feel bad about yourself or if you're depressed go to the gym and get a six-pack and then come back and see your happiness level and how fulfilled you are and in those cases I'm sure lot of people who just go to the gym and work on getting a six-pack and just have one goal to work towards find themselves thinking if I could achieve that one thing I could do this and this and this and all the doors seem to open up I've heard Jordan Peterson say clean your room yeah it's the same concept I agree with that clean your room make your bed go to the gym go out to a bar by yourself if you don't have friends just do basic [ __ ] and don't just don't have a victim mentality just do it and you don't need to read a book or listen to so fascinating that you say like you don't look into self-help yet it appears like you guys are very happy and healthy people one of I feel like the most mentally healthy or friend that I have that I've known for a very long time I asked him because I had been going through like the self-help phase where I'm reading all these personal development books Etc and he was like yeah I threw all that stuff out the window I stopped reading it and he's like it's all just a bunch of mumbo jumbo you just have to be happy which obviously it's very easy to say that which is it's interesting but it seems as though it actually works for me I do think that there is I will give Credence to those who say the happiest people are the ones who do not read the self-development books because Seekers will always you know happy people that are always looking reading self-help books that are super happy I feel like it could get you on the right path though it can give you some tools necessary but it doesn't fix it and if you think it's going to fix it then you're in for a rude away I think maybe that's the issue they think it's going to fix it and and there's another uh thing that was in a book self-help ironically that I read which is that Seekers will always be Seekers you just have to be a finder you know what I mean don't don't always think that this you you have to find it's like taking different vitamins instead of eating well and also think there's a there's a kind of a get-rich quick mentality to it meaning like you're trying to get an easy answer and most often in life there aren't easy answers most often it's just hard work and people don't want to like recognize that they want to think that there's some trick I mean people come up to me like oh you know how can I be successful in real estate like as though I can just tell them something in 10 seconds it's going to make it easy I how about work your [ __ ] ass off for the next decade but nobody wants to hear that yeah I want to know about the abundance mentality that I see in you guys this is something I talk to Graham about a lot actually because I think obviously there are a bunch of different groups of people but I I see the main two as abundance versus scarcity mentality people Graham I think is is very clear he's a scarcity mentality person I'm not saying one is better than the other okay but I do think that there's some like you feel like a weight is lifted off of your shoulders you can see someone they look less stressed out when they're an abundance mentality person you know what I mean where do you guys think this abundance mentality originated and I'm sure seeing a lot of wealthy people all of the time as agents Brokers Etc um You probably see these two archetypes right the abundance mentality person I got to be honest I never use classifications like that because I feel like everything's on a scale in society I think there's a a huge like reaction to try to there's two different typ three different types there I don't think there ever is in in pretty much anything I think every human being is we're just on a scale of one to 100 on everything I don't think there's ever but I do I think that there is Merit in saying that like if there was a spectrum you have abundance and scarcity like right and I'm not just labing because of course you can have probably a scarcity thought here and there and he can there people that are I mean I don't even um I mean I agree with the camps to some degree um but I think that there are people who are just always scared you know or concerned and there are people who just aren't you know and are and will take more risks like we've always been Risk Takers cuz we don't we're not scared people um and so I think that's helped us out a lot just always taking risks do you see an over overall difference in like the general fulfillment and happiness levels of people who come or Who air more on the side of an abundance mentality or the scarcity mentality because they both are actually good in and of themselves because they SP they SP what's your Happ 1 to 10 what's my happiness I'd say some days a six some days last average last six months probably a six I would say which a little lower cuz you work too hard or what uh I would personally I think it's lack of a direction and lack of feeling like as bit I I've talked before about being in the flow state where it's just like you're just zoning in on one thing have not found what that thing is for me yet I love the podcast but it's not something I could do 10 hour about the last five years up until the last six months uh probably eight overall that's that's the mouse that has the pedal versus the mouse that doesn't yeah right right or or does that not make sense no it it does what having control my life you had the pedal the last five years until six now you don't have no now now I have a pedal it's just I have so many pedals to pick from that it's it's like figureing out what I want to yeah exactly which when I when I talked to you 5 years ago you wanted to be in this position five years ago so it's interesting how now you're looking back and you were happier then cuz you were like oh I need to slow down like I can't keep this pace up you wanted more time I was happiest when I came to you and I'm like dude I'm too busy and you're telling me to ease back I'm like no I have to keep going I was happiest I don't think there's a big difference in the between the scar set and the abundance as far as happiness I don't think that's what defines your your happiness very much at all that's interesting sense of purpose to me sense of purpose and control over your life but I would say that if you're if if that sense of scarcity gives you anxiety um then it's going to make youy make difference I mean I think that there are both just tools that people use to be productive to get things done is out of scarcity or out of a bun as I just can but and and that's interesting so you said you're at a six right now but over the past five years you've been at eight you said so when have you everever been been below a five because five would be average right so that would mean you know within the standard deviation like most of your time 80 7% or whatever I I don't know how usually we end up cutting out the personal bits so I'm happy to talk about it but um yeah I I think a lack of challenge for me is is the big thing is is I don't have that challenge of the newness of something that I could work on but you're still above average overall yeah because he has a good objective life you know above average for yourself I'm not asking like relative to other people yeah yeah above average for myself overall but recently I'd say the last six months has been just a lack of Direction because I feel like I've done what I set out to do what's next I think that's an answer that a lot of people would give it's that's why when people retire sometimes are less happy yeah yeah um you do need that's why I like you know as much as I don't want to like go open up another office I'll go open up another office because it gives me that sense of purpose and Direction you know and uh responsibility and I kind of thrive on like projects that that's what I was saying earlier this whole this whole mentality which I think is fading now but our parents definitely embraced it of like I'm going to do all this until I'm 65 and then retire it never works because they always like either get depressed or like die pretty pretty much you know 5 years after they retire because they have no sense of purpose and they're just this is everything I worked for my whole life it's a it's just a horrific mentality to take in life you just got to look at your life as as like one long journey and not like two a journey to 65 and then just chilling it's just never never a good outlook Graham's got everything he could possibly want right now and you're a six instead of an eight and you had less when you were an eight so it's the you so it has nothing to do with that you were saying that earlier like people a lot of people say I'll be happy when M and that when never arrives because it does arrive and there's another when M so you're inevitably not going to be happy so if you have to really just enjoy the process which is why every six months I look back and I think we you know you do too and just kind and it's important to tell the viewers it's not money that that makes you happy I know to an extent it is yeah but I mean all the psychological studies show this like dramatically it's it's not like Brett oppenheim's opinion there's a certain amount of money I don't know exactly what it is where you you don't have to Super stress on your bills and things of that nature and you can go to Trader Joe's and not and get the blueberries and not care about it Graham's not at that L wealth yet he's getting there and then where you know there's a lot of stress taken off you and between that and a billionaire the level of happiness is almost completely unrelated to money so you don't have to when diminishing returns is a few I think St are like 350 350 but it it varies the point is I think it's way lower that it's literally I it was like 100 I think it's like di it's enough to be able to pay your electric blue perfect example I mean I we're pretty damn happy I mean I'd say you know maybe even an eight you know on average um but I would say that some of the best years of our lives are at least also an eight were when we had no money you know and we were like in High School Junior College college just you know struggling around with it but with our buddies I had the gym you know uh and I had a car and that's all I needed so I think and we did we did not we were not making 100 Grand a year so I think like you said as long as you just don't have the stress like you have a place to go home and you can feed yourself you know it's really and then it's diminishing returns after that not to say that like my you know 1965 Bronco doesn't make me happy because it [ __ ] does I love it all of our wealthy clients are no happier on average than a lot of our friends that don't have money say it's more about relationship like if you have good friendships you're probably going to be happier than a wealthy person what's something that you notice between your wealthiest clients that you'd say they all tend to have in terms of maybe a personality how much money um I would say it's always interesting to me that my wealthy clients don't spend their money you know they're Frugal uh or at least to me they are wealthiest like I mean I would say that 90% of my clients who are wealthy and you know that varies from a million dollars to you know a billion dollars um 90% of them don't spend money in the manner that I think that they could and should but do you see like within that range a certain conent like the ultra Ultra ultra wealthy percentage of your clients are extra Frugal or is it just generally speaking wealthy people say people with a lot of money you would think like but just spend it like I do I mean what's the point of it I mean even if I had kids you know yeah I'd make sure that my kids had enough money but um I just it's interesting to me like I'll go out let's say and buy a very expensive 1965 Ford Bronco because I [ __ ] love it that objectively is fun to drive and I've got a lot of clients wealthier than me that would like never pay that kind of money for a Bronco and I'm like why you could easily afford that and it's fun like why would you not do something different personalties it's just interesting but I think why a lot of people don't spend a lot of money is because making money is like a game I think a lot of people I would say maybe mostly men but because they have maybe have like more game mentality in their brains but I think that they just go through life saying I want to accumulate as much as I can not because I need it not because I want to spend it it's just it's like a game the more money I'm winning you know it's like points and so if they spend their points then they don't have as many points even though it doesn't matter because they have enough points to live a 50 times but it's just like this point mentality and another thing it's wrong I feel like a lot of men in particular just have this like this mentality through life I want to accumulate as many points as possible those are the rules and I want to you know consider myself a winner and it's not even like it's not a bad thing I just that's the way they look at money I think does that make sense that's pretty accurate I would say fun fun accumulating points like with you like I I think you and all of my you know wealthy people my clients and friends to just spend more I mean it is objectively fun to fly all your uh your friends to Cabo like which I'm doing this week and get place I'm sure but I worry is that sustainable like if your income drops to zero tomorrow could you doing I don't like to do things that I know I can't continue so if I get something because I I worry if I level up my life I I don't want to ever go downar that's the scarcity mentality and I think I mean like for example like I will fight first class even though it's obnoxiously expensive and it doesn't make any sense related to what a coach ticket costs but like what's the point of having money if you're not going to fly first class but then I feel like you could slowly level up over time like if my life gets 3% better every year in terms of a lifestyle then I know I could look forward in 10 years I don't have a problem I don't have a problem with your mentality I think your mentality makes a lot of sense I do I wouldn't dissuade people from that and towards yours at all in fact if anything I probably dissuade people towards grams I think there's something about your personality and and maybe to a slightly lesser extent but pretty similar in my personality that just we get a lot of enjoyment and things from that I'm not sure I would push that on other people I think objectively on paper your your scenario makes a lot more sense although I think you could I think you take it to the extreme but whatever but I have seen too with my own clients that the wealthier they are the less likely they are to spend the money and the first deal I ever did was in the Flats on lynon drive and it sold I think at three and a half million bucks cash first deal yeah three and5 million cash and the guy was probably spending another $2 to $3 million renovating the entire place and like tearing down most of the thing but I remember with him he was even negotiating the inspection on the house to get that inspection charge down and I'm talking like saving a 100 bucks and6 million you probably gravitate towards those clients I love he was great better point maybe than spending money is um I think at the very least take away the annoyance that that can be caused by having to pay attention to money like I have not looked at a restaurant bill in years so that for me is just peace of mind I haven't looked at a credit card statement in years am I getting screwed probably every after this airs but I don't mind like that's the point is I don't want to have to look at a restaurant bill you know all the bills like exra I probably have a I have no idea but that's for me like you know or somebody or my you know Gardener or I just got a text like they're like oh your sprinkler at Hercules isn't working and they want to you know it's like $900 I'm like fine I don't want to have to review that invoice am I getting screwed a couple hundred maybe I don't I don't care that's the beauty of of having money so if you can't if you still are grinding if you're still looking at this invoice and you're saying hey how much of this is you know labor how much of this is materials you know is that sod really you know $12 a square foot I can get it for $10 rude that's what's happened to me and that's where I spent a lot of my time I recently had a guy uh to remove a little pipe and charge $600 and I said no because I know it's maybe a $75 I used to I used to be like that but then I thought to myself so what's the worst case scenario the worst case scenario is that I'm getting screwed a couple hundred and which I can totally afford and this guy is getting an extra couple hundred so he can go to the movies take his wife out to dinner fine then I'm getting screwed and this guy's having a slightly better life great I mean I don't that's not a problem for me and so if I just if I just reverse it instead of me getting screwed it's like me just being nice and I get enjoyment out of that he gets I mean I don't mind I don't I if the waitress charged me for two stakes instead of one and the I don't care like that to me if you're wealthy and you're still worried about this type of [ __ ] then then you're not getting advantage of your wealth to me I guess it's more of a principal thing cuz sometimes they'll shove the house you got get away that's if you're still worried about principal then you're not allowing your money to make you happy sure you just got to get over the whole getting screwed you got to get over the principal people are he's so focused on principal like he a waiter will you know not will screw up and he'll like I'm like bro you don't need to complain maybe he's like well the next person will get the right sell dressing like who gives a [ __ ] it's not your job job to like have to fix everything I just stopped doing that I'm so much happier now at what dollar amount do you do you start paying attention like 10,000 20,000 I'm probably not a good uh answer because I don't care really like for me I go to an extreme and just you know not stressing about anything like that to me is the beauty of money is not stressing so I don't stress about anything when did that start at what point I've been that way even when I didn't have money really yeah which is dangerous you know luckily have money now that sounds like true wealth you know what I mean like if if we're maybe being a little bit more flexible with the definition of the word wealth but our clients have way more money than than like when when we go to dinner I buy I haven't not bought a dinner in years you know whether we went to dinner last night with nine people I bought dinner I will never not buy dinner because I can I mean I don't if you have some wealth and why would you not buy dinner for everyone like I think the wealthiest person should just buy everything you know because it affects them the least and yet you know I have wealthy clients that just don't do that I'm like what what's I don't get the point then it's not a wealth thing because that's a mentality thing that he takes to the extreme but our clients are all most of our a lot of our clients are wealthier than us some of them far far far wealthier that's more of a mentality thing that's interesting I don't necessarily well I guess I agree with it if like he also has a lot of confidence that he's always going to be creating wealth and he doesn't have much responsibility beneath them so you know this isn't exactly like the perfect mentality for every well like an example my mom is building like a a she shed in her backyard and she's was I was I called her she's and she's like stress out over this invoice she's like well Jason should I care this the Gardener charged me $50 for knee pads you know but but he's going to take those with him you know after the job so I shouldn't have to pay for those I'm like oh my God Mom like you have money why would you let the I so so you bought your Gardener knee pads who gives a [ __ ] like to me it's like why would you ever spend 15 seconds of your life worrying about something like that who cares our mom is more like you yeah not to S it's so frustrating to me though I'm like but it seems point we leased her in Mercedes and she is like been over the moon for the last seven years of driving it I'm like could afford a mer you know you can afford a Mercedes right yeah but it's doing the things like that that she wouldn't do for herself I'd be the same way my point like she will reveal we would do it for herself an invoice and she'll you know and she'll see a $50 charge for knee pads that you know the gardener is going to take with him and that will cause her anxiety and stress and she's feeling like it's unfair like I don't know I'm just so it seems like your life is completely designed around minimizing stress anything you could do to pay for that inconvenient you just pay it it doesn't matter you don't want to be stressed that's for me that's the beauty of having he has a lot of stress so like if you don't you should you might as well and I'm not saying you don't but you might as well then try to maybe save some money and focus on that but if if you're just being bombarded with different inputs of stress all day long and you can with through money that's coming in more than you're spending if you can minimize the stress down here by spending some of that money that's coming in then that probably makes sense from like utilitarian perspective it does seem like burgers or anything or just that yeah I have some it does seem like though you are stressed about a lot of like real estate deals Renovations managing hit theil the head uh the stress that I that I enjoy like I enjoy work stress because I love work I don't enjoy personal stress so I avoid it or I pay my way through it for real bro I half of it man are we getting I was all excited and this is get you guys fighting half eaten folded Burger why did you fold the burger dude oh I didn't just you wonder why we fight he's an idiot that looks [ __ ] good it bite after bite share it how is it is it good you're welcome the fries are [ __ ] now really yeah yeah cold fries are tough yeah okay one thing that you were talking about uh there's a lot of media on you so it's really easy I'm guessing you're probably like you said somewhat you're very similar you share a lot of philosophies perspective Etc um you were saying on some sort of an interview that perspective is the most important thing when you're considering and adjusting your happiness levels right something akin to that I'd say perspective is probably the most important thing to create happiness and it's also the hardest thing to get you can't buy perspective you can buy almost everything and and you also are you the one that does all the research and Graham just sits here and basically not his head Graham does a good amount of research but sometimes I go a little over Jack has a good perspective because I know you guys it's hard for me to ask questions that I know answers to versus Jack has a good balance because he has very little knowledge and experience and and you very you have very little knowledge actually INE that I let that SL that you said that we're cutting that part out I said something earlier that was horrible I said Graham you'd have to beat that out of me in some other Contex I was like that probably didn't someone's going to clip just that little part you you you're saying perspective will always change if you climb the socioeconomic hierarchy something akin to that and other hierarchies of Life uh how do you keep your perspective in check and make sure it still has a positive impact on yourself I'm probably not great at keeping perspective I mean if I had perspective I'd probably my level of Happiness would probably be a 10 all the time but you get jaded you know you you're just like you know your your perspective changes so Things become normalized and then you take them for granted that's that's just human nature I try to what did I Coke I try to keep perspective like oh you know I'll talk to my therapist I'll just reflect on all the good things that are going on in my life gratitude will do it yeah it makes you cuz you lose appreciation like naturally human nature is to just start taking things for granted um friendships you know relationships uh wealth automobile house like you just start health I mean everyone almost everyone takes their health for granted right until they're not healthy so it's hard to just sit back and and reflect in the morning wow I'm healthy I'm going to have a great healthy day today I can go to the gym I can go running um you just don't you just live your life and you just you're you're healthy and you take it for granted you take your friendships for granted I take bread for granted I take wealth for granted I take my success for granted I take the net show for granted everyone genuinely starts the more you understand that the more you I think you can understand the concept of happiness because and I'll give you a quick example when we got a house in the Hills our dad like bought it we were able to move there when we were in law school and I remember it was like my dream I was ridiculous I was living in a one-bedroom apartment and I remember getting up to this house and I was standing on the balcony with the views and I was like holy [ __ ] and then I looked up and it was like a bigger house it true story it was like a bigger house like three blocks up I was like holy [ __ ] that's the house it lasted like 30 seconds you know and so if you realize that if you're because people are always thinking if this then this then I'll be happy then I'll be no you'll have then you always just want more and you have a new persp that's not the way happiness Works which means you might as well look at what you have now and be happy because I can promise you it doesn't scale the way you think you know what what how there's actually a particular moment of of Our Lives where I think this perspective hit me Brett and I were traveling we were in Egypt um we were behind the pyramids like a mile behind the pyramids it was just like sand and there were like you know 12 or 15 kids um barefoot running around like the 110° sand playing soccer with like little makeshift goals and a soccer ball that had like more duct tape you know than any it was basically a duct tape ball and they were laughing and having so much fun and we jumped in the game we played for like an hour and a half uh with these kids it was so much fun and I just saw they're smiling so much and they're laughing so much and I just and I'm like these kids are like happier than I am they're you know probably living you know on a dollar a day playing playing with a a duct taped soccer ball on 150° heat you know with with no shoes on and they're as happy as can be that's perspective I mean that that moment in our lives I have a photo of it with us all these kids um that just I think taught me that perspective is everything that's what creates happiness's perspective you there's American kids playing on a perfect field with a perfect ball and like their structured their uniforms and they're mad at their mom because they're they didn't get the cool cleats that they wanted you know what I mean it's like everything is is perspective in life but human nature is to lose perspective so knowing that you're not going to fight it because human nature is you're never going to wake up every morning be like oh my God I'm grateful for this and this you know I mean you can try it but it's not going to happen so if you realize that then what you are really realizing is all these goals of like wealth and happiness and and if I get this and this and it doesn't work out that way life never works out that way so if that's the case embrace it and just realize okay I might as well be happy with what I have now because I'm realizing that if I have a bigger house that's not going to necessarily increase my happiness I'm just going to want then a bigger house so chill out and just be happy with what you have and want more that's human nature but don't think that it's necessarily don't always have that mentality I think you talked about late earlier where it's like I'm going to be super happy when I when I achieve this it never works out that way I think those perspective checks are incredibly important I had one cuz I was thinking about it since you said it in an interview and it was kind of like in my subconscious just kind of like marinating there and then last night I went to this party and they gave you these wristbands and the wristbands have this adhesive where you wrap it around and stick it to the other side and when the lady put it on my hand it just went all over my arm hair maybe 5% of the adhesive actually went on a tap you guys know you know what I'm talking about wristbands last night the same it's like she tried I always bend it over right you have more arm hair so yeah no I mean it's like she tried to cause me as much pain as possible and she did it and I looked at it I'm like you got to be kidding me and I'm looking around I'm like well this is a pretty cool party and they have an open bar and there's a bunch of people here I'm excited to talk to and then I forgot about the wristband but I let myself sit with it for like 15 seconds of like this is so stupid why would she do this how would she so bad at her job and then I go and I have an amazing night I wake up the next morning and I feel a tugging on my wrist and I look and there's just like all of my arm hair is just wrapped up in this thing and then I just go and I rip it out get a bunch of arm hair with it and I'm like that is so silly that I even cared about that at all especially when I was ripping it off of my you know my arm it's like it there are so many real actual problems that people face on a daily basis and you said in this interview you're like I don't have real problems and I have never thought about it like that like I don't have a serious health problem I can afford a roof over my head I can afford to feed myself my family my immediate family everyone's healthy everyone's fine I don't have real problems and to admit that to yourself and to admit that to all of the people watching here is a very gutsy thing to do because when you have problems people they res honestly kind of like respect you they see you as more when you have problems it's like really especially now in society I think it's one of the biggest things is you're defined by your problems how much of a victim you are on the scale is like how good of a person you are and obviously so much I I mean obviously I'm very fortunate to say I don't have real problems in the same way that you guys say that you do not have real problems but it's just such a dose of reality of like okay I ripped out my arm hair who cares who cares it really doesn't mean much yeah yeah how do you keep perspective like that oh it's super hard I mean you have to you have to consciously remind yourself of the good things in your life to be appreciative I mean it's it's actually work you got to work at it otherwise you just take everything for granted and then you just realize you're not as happy what problems would you say you have today I know you say they're not real problems but if you really think like today like what problems are you are you experiencing even though they might not be real problems pretty bad hangover that's a real issue right there yeah the half of that hamburger yeah cold hamburger and a hangover bad fren fries really I was going to say it is I I don't think I have any real problems I would imagine maybe it's like the real estate market slowing down the performance of the show maybe opening up new offices you know I just I used to let things get to me um and I just don't anymore like I'm oddly really good at just not getting frustrated these days um it's a skill set that I've I think I've just you know done really well at I think almost by necessity I have so many problems you know that could be stressful and I just I just now I'm choosing not to let them stress me out have you guys ever had a health problem or close family member with a health problem yeah not nothing severe no and if you ever I don't when I got back from traveling I had like a year I don't know people have much bigger health problems than that but if you have any type of Health threat that gives you the perspective of of potentially losing your health it g it puts your whole life in perspective for the rest of your life that's to me the only real problem people can have is health money is like unless if it's affecting your health and if you literally can't feed yourself but I think if you don't have a health problem and there's no one very close to you that has a health problem you pretty much don't have problems I love this quote I think about it all the time well I should think about it more honestly but it's you have a 100 problems until you have a health problem then you have one problem and I think it's very true one thing that I think we already hit on this but I think it's still worth noting I feel like whether it's in universities or I'm not sure where it started but I this victim mentality now I think makes people unhappy you know because I think we're teaching people rather than go solve a problem it's just to victim you know to feel like you're viol it doesn't mean that you're not a victim there are there are millions of victims and and bad [ __ ] happens all the time and it doesn't mean you can't talk about it doesn't mean that you can't complain but then shut up and go fix it you know what I mean like don't just sit I think a lot of people like the uh attention the attention that they get from it or the support that they get from go online says I a victim here's what happened to me here's how bad the situation is to get thousands of comments or tens of thousands of using oh you know we we stand by you a whole victimization support structure out there right now to fix don't deny the problem I mean by no means are there not significant problems out there people are victims of those circumstances but I just wish we had a more mentality of like okay now pick yourself up I agree F I think personal responsibility needs to be taken to a severe degree yes can I give another um ramble of a time how many mice died this is a right dude I'm like insecure about this burger being all over my mouth so hold on no I don't see anything no uh you're pretty good you got little something right there I always get so much [ __ ] in my teeth sound so bad every time I had a meal with her she would point out [ __ ] that was stuck in my teeth and I'm like is getting stuck in my teeth more now that I'm with you or was it always that way and you're just the only person that ever pointed it out and now I'm like traumatized um this is actually a really good study okay so and just to be clear this is not to say that there aren't millions of victims and the society doesn't have a lot of issues but this is an important study to understand as far as like success in life so there was and it's a famous study it's been replicated it's not you know my opinion again so there was like 15 people that got facial scars put on their face um with makeup have you heard this one y okay it's incredible if it's really important for people to understand so so they have these facial scars that makeup artists put on their face and say okay you're going to go into an interview and we're going to see you see how the interview goes and I'm going to ask you if your facial scars played a role in your interview and the interviewers have no idea what you know what's going on and so these 15 people go into a room right before the interview after they look at the mirror and they see their scars they go into another room and the makeup artist just says oh I'm just going to touch up these scars real quick right before you walk into the interview space and without these people knowing because there's no mirrors in that room that makeup artist is actually taking the scars off so they go into the interview with no scars but they think they have massive facial scars and they get interviewed and then they're they come out of the interviews for for the job interviews and they're asked by the people they're running to study did your scars play a role at all in this interview process I think there was 15 of the people and like 10 or 11 of the people said he couldn't stop or she couldn't stop looking at my scars made explicit comments I knew I wasn't going to get the job right when I walked in like comments like that you know just like defeatist comments 11 or 12 of the 15 said things of that nature and I mean some of them went as far as to say he made explicit comments about my my scars just you know just anyway then the interview said look none of you had scars when you were in those interviews and it was such an Illuminating defeatist victimization um you know conclusion that these people had been coming to and it just shows so much about human mentality if you go into a situation thinking that you're a victim you're going to be a victim and it doesn't mean that some people don't have facial scars because in I I mean metaphorically some people are in a position where they're going to walk into an interview and have a problem but they you know then they have to either probably work harder than other people and there's a lot of people that go into that interview thinking they have these issues that really don't and if you go in with the Deus mentality you're not going to get that job no matter what so I would just advise people to go into that room thinking that you don't have facial scars even if you do and and and I'm not to say the world is fair some people have you know have hurdles they have to clear that others don't and that's I'm not opining on the absence of that in society clearly there is if you want to succeed in life you know that study shows a lot understand that the implications of that study if you want to succeed in life yeah it's a difference between overcoming versus complaining and right now we are rewarding complaining and we should be rewarding you know where do you think that changed because I don't remember 15 years ago rewarding complaining me neither yeah I feel like it's something that's happened 10 years ago started in the last few years it's it's it's gotten a lot worse who do you think is supporting this message well it's like it's it has to be institutions or something right like it there there's got to be a deeper thing going on than just like there got to be something missing that that has opened up opportunities right there's got to be some sort of deficiency I think it's good intentions I think it's good intentions that started it I think it's good intentions of bringing awareness to to people who do have problems in society which is a good intention to have I just think it's gotten to a point now where it's where it's making life worse for a lot of people instead of better you know which is really unfortunate because I think the intentions were good because there's a difference between exposing uh problems and and then complaining about them I mean I think exposing problems and addressing problems is good but I think that we need to instead of just valuing you know victimization and like supporting victimization we have to and beyond that literally defining people by their level of victimhood you know it's almost like I don't know it's almost like in Reverse of what you might want to be doing it is kind of odd it's like a metal that you kind of like proudly wear a lot of the times but then it gives it could EAS give that person a feeling of this is who I am I am a victim and I'm going to see everything through that victim lens I'm going to go into every uh every conversation that I have with another human being thinking that I have a scar on my face and it's that's not a good way to go through life even if you do have a scar on your face and I'm using that obviously metaphorically MH and it can't be a good it can't be good for happiness feeling like you're a victim you know the thing you don't and that yeah exactly you don't you can't run over and hit that lever you know and you're making excuses but when you actually can run over and you can hit that lever that's what makes you happy so I think there's it's got to be creating a you know dissatisfaction among people to feel like they're victims and again that's not to say there aren't victims you know but it's just to say like you you separate like being aware of the systemic issues in society and doing your absolute best to to amarate those and then there is the defining people by their level of victimhood and giving them giving people like a mentality of like an almost an inability to overcome because there's consumed with that victimhood those are two different things and I think we started in a good place and ended up over here or using it as an excuse like there's a you can raise awareness and you can address an issue but you then you can also use it as an excuse that's where I think we're is the problem is that people are using their victim as an excuse rather than just getting up and going and solving it if you had a child with a disability you know um you could either parent them by saying look you're going to you're constantly saying you're going to have these struggles you're going to have you're not going to get hired it's going to be 10 times harder for you I I I'm feel so bad for you like this is this is this is a really horrible situation that you're in that's one way to raise that kid and and you can track that kid's progress through life and another way to raise that kid is you're going to have to work four times as hard because you have this disability and I'm going to give you the confidence and I'm going to tell you that you can overcome anything you want and you rais the kid that way you want to track those two people through life and see who comes out with an you didn't they do that they did the study like that with orphans didn't they with the the stuttering did you see this telling about studies now thank you yeah we are uh so they did this with orphans they they found two groups of Orphans I think this was in the 40s or 50s one had uh severe stuttering and the others were perfect speakers and they put half of the perfect speakers in with the stuttering group and half of the stuttering people in with the perfect speakers and so one group was told you speak fine you speak great the other was like you have a severe problem and they found that the ones who spoke normally but were put into the stuttering group started developing stutters and they could not speak as well versus the stutterers were put in the normal group the exact same treatment as uh all the other normal kids and they started speaking better so it was really the environment that they that molded their personality and they stuttering to that I mean I think that's if there's one thing I can point to as to I think how we became successful it's that it was instilled in Us by our parents When We Were Young that we could achieve anything we wanted to do and they didn't just say that like they actually convinced us that we could do whatever we wanted that we would be great at what everyone wanted so I think it's the opposite of of victim mentality like they just said no matter what you are capable of doing whatever you want you're going to be great at it if you work hard enough was that how they were raised too it seems like both of them were successful in their own right I don't necessarily think so yeah I'm not sure they got the same and you're right think maybe I was minimizing a little bit of that when I was saying that it was it's in my bones which it is in my bones but I do think there's a definitely a nurture perspective and our parents did raise us that way and I think that's how you have to raise your kids no matter what you know level levels of obstacles that they're going to have to overcome because of one thing or another you have to raise your kids with that mentality because that's what breeds success and happiness speaking of kids would you guys want any kids nice transition yeah probably uh I'd say if I had to guess in my life i' say maybe it's 50/50 but it's not going to be anytime soon 7030 against really I'm also 46 years old right now don't even have a girlfriend so I'm a little behind the curve on that yeah but I could have I could have a kid at 55 I don't care yeah then you're going to be like a 75 I don't I'm 75o gradu be running around like a 50-year-old when I'm 75 okay so you have nine more years Max I could have a I I know someone had to kid at 72 I'm not saying it physically isn't there like like dicey stuff biological stuff that can happen to the kid if you have a kid at like 7 I don't think from the the male no no no that's not true your your sperm you have a higher um likelihood of autism and a lot of other things if you're well whatever I would do it in it would so it doesn't matter have you frozen any sperm yeah I also froze like 10 years ago I did too yeah just because I did actually hear that that um an older man can have like a less healthy SPO do they know but it's not as big of an issue for women are born with all their eggs so they actually age whereas men produce semen every day but that's do you do they know the long-term side effects of like a frozen sperm kid I don't think there I don't think there are any there are none but how how long has this existed cuz wouldn't the kid to like go entire life eggs I think can get damaged over time yeah Frozen didn't they they they froze the uh fzed embryo I think it was like 30 years and they had yeah and they had a perfectly good uh you know child perfectly healthy normal that is but the child was technically like you know 30 years old by the time they were actually born right they celebrated his 31th birthday Benjamin that's a whole another debate we could go I'm not going to go down that road is that child 31 or one he definitely 31 starts drinking at 10 like technically I'm 40 years old actually actually Social Security uh it's it's interesting because a lot of people tell me who are really successful they say oh if if I could have had kids earlier I I wish I had done that versus waiting later you know I there's a lot of different reasons why people have kids I have a ton of purpose in my life so I don't need a child to create purpose in my life in fact I also am very happy and very fulfilled a lot of people mentality of like creating Legacy which we just don't have it all it's like I mean what so you're going to be in a I I don't know it's like every every family dies off everyone every name gets you know taking out of the history books EV like who who I don't I don't have I don't I'm missing that we don't have like a need for our name to live on you know like I just a lot of people have I care when I say don't want everyone's like what about your last name what about your business what like everything dies everything decomposes over time like in life every Everything do you think that's depressing to think about though that everything is just going to disappear one day really happy that makes me sad to think that like 100 years from now like just people won't remember you I know it makes it makes it seem like everything you do is very insignificant yeah isn't that a cool feel I think that's a cool feeling when I look up at the stars it gives me that that feeling perspective of like literally this planet doesn't even matter let alone my life it actually makes me Happ take things less seriously like you know the oh my gosh there's a my there's a clip that came out today from our show of like uh crelle and my girlfriend at the time like having lunch and and they were kind of you know they were not getting along and it was stressful for me but then I was like you know what like I'm going to look back on this in a year and it's not going to be I'll laugh at it and you know what it's been a few months and I'm already not stressed about it uh everything is insignificant I was so stressed out at the time and I'm like you know what I guarantee you in six months this will not be important to me it never is nothing is important to me six months down the road nothing that I that I think at the time is is worth being stressed about yeah it was looking back ever worth stressing about so now I just don't stress I anybody who's stressed out about anything just to look up at at the stars depending on where you live it's tough in La I mean that just it sounds cheesy but it's like for me when I look up at that it just gives you the unbelievable understanding of the insignificance of not only your life not only the human race but planet Earth this galaxy to the universe we are as meaningless as you could possibly imagine like no offense to anyone in this room I don't care if you're like the president your life is pathetically meaningless to the universe and to me that's actually like calming you know this seems like a newer development especially For You Jason because I feel like 5 years ago you were very careful to curate the you know the the image that you wanted out there and be very careful with it and so uh maybe a clip like that would have just like you would be making phone calls be like who filmed this how did this get out there what are the people saying delete those comments like what what changed the first year of producing I got about that I would say if I had to attribute it to one thing I'd probably see I'd say therapy I started sing a therapist like four five four years ago maybe and I would say within a year or two I I have a list in my phone of like the things that I need to work on um but some of the things on that list just really made me stop stressing like U and internalizing things I mean I think a lot of anxiety is internalization of other people's actions yeah uh and that was it was such a cliche thing that she told me like you know other people's actions are a reflection of them and not me and you know don't sweat the small stuff and everything is small like all these really cliche things that you might even find in a book but they hit me pretty hard um and I started thinking about those things every day like when I would have a coffee I'd read my list and within a couple years and continuing to see her I really just stopped worrying about stuff like I am probably at my happiest right now because I have the least amount of stress I have probably more problems in my life right now than I did 5 years ago and I am five times less just do you have a list of things just to internalize every day yeah can you share some of those things that like maybe share the things that other people could learn from because I'm curious what those are yeah I mean I should you should get contact with the with the therapist I would be I'd be more than happy to but I remember it the part for me that the reason I brought that up was because I posted a listing on my Instagram this is when the YouTube channel was just taking off and I posted a new listing on there I think it was the marvista listing and someone commented something like this is a [ __ ] cool listing or something like that and you had seen that comment yeah and you said Graham why do you have vulgar unsophisticated people commenting on your instagam could delete that coma we don't want the you know the sell when you started your uh when you started YouTube up in the upstairs in the office you were cussing I'm like I will not have cussing if you're sitting in this office you know on YouTube yeah but that worked because then YouTube started demonetizing uh vulgar videos profanity they I cared a lot I L the first year we were producing we would argue with the producers like nuts if they released The Boll of us we were stress cases we were yelling at everyone we were like so upset about everything string about everything and because we didn't you know and then now we're just like just do what you want you know whatever you know yeah I mean the idea that they wanted me to like go on a date in like season one I'm like oh my God I would never go on a date I would never put my relationship on camera and now like you know every PE I my whole relationship in the breakup is all on camera like I just don't care anymore does that bother you though to either read the comments about it or people speculating about it I am so thick skinned I haven't I don't even comments honestly and if I did read bad comments I would just laugh them off I'm just oddly thick skinned and I think it's great for this for what we do because you kind of if you don't have thick skin you're going to have a problem if you think about the type of person that's like sitting in the room commenting on someone's some character in a reality show I mean it's not to say that everybody does that is like a loser but I mean but if you're taking the time to go on my Instagram and talk sh about my height or my I say that doesn't say more about that person than it does about you I don't know what that's on my list like other people's actions are a reflection of them let's do this list uh well that's probably my favorite one honestly oh my gosh um don't be too hard on yourself I'm I can be very hard on myself I'm less hard on myself now okay like I don't judge myself as harshly as I used to and that keep makes me more happy don't take things personally um let's see don't let Brett get under your skin be less judgmental and validate him is that is that on there did you ask reflect must have been added really Recon this morning reflect on how great life is that's like part of the uh um perspective perspective uh rein positive reinforcement at the office don't criticize mistakes make them teachable moments I try to be a better boss I've been working on that and honestly I have be a positive personality and then I have in parenthesis Nico and Zelda my dogs are like the happiest people on the planet they're amazing and I I like to like just watch them but Zelda is like I'm like why can't I be as happy as Zelda she has she's so happy all she does is run around on a floor all day long you know eat twice a day and she's the happiest creature on the planet so that I mean how come I I can't be happy but the the best well be be less serious um and other people's actions are a reflection of them not me that that one honestly I would get so validate gram I would get so reactive to people you know like they and and it's people all have their reasons for whatever you know they're going through and you know their their actions and not everyone's a a good person or not everyone's at a good moment in their life um and I would internalize that stuff you know like and now I just I realize that's not about me like that's about you you're making a comment uh a nasty comment on my Instagram that is a reflection of you you're probably not in a happy space they just I don't internalize that anymore no no happy person no confident happy person makes consistent negative comments about other people that is a fact there is no confident happy person making negative comments on Instagram at other people that's a fact does it ever translate uh to in person like do negative people ever come in person 100% the same people that would that would rip you a new one on Instagram like just take a picture with you if they see you on the street you know yeah yeah but I try to tell I try to tell um the women that on the you know that because they you know some people internalize stuff more than others um that you know it's really a reflection of them they're not in a good space or they're jealous and there's a lot of that out there and rather than them you know sitting with with those emotions they they'll lash out and try to take other people down I mean there's a I'd say if there's two huge problems uh in society that I would point out one is the victim mentality that I think that we are almost rewarding at this point um and the other one is just a lot of unhappy insecure people trying to tear other people down like people love tearing people down it's it's like a sickness I don't understand that because you it props yourself up when you're putting other people down you know morally patting yourself on the back when you say this person one of those are they're IST you know what I mean but that comes from an insecurity so listen at the end of the day insecurity and a lack of confidence probably causes 90% of the problems on this planet if people were more secure uh and more confident we would have relationship problem any of the problems we have bolster confidence and security or it's tough I mean I think it's the little things we were talking about clean your room and go to the gym yeah and a therapist I think that if it were up to me everyone on the planet would see a do you have the same therapists well you don't really I don't need therapy I'm pretty I go like every few months now like I'm you know uh you do I need it as much uh I used to but after Co just over Zoom mhm and do you go with specific things you want to work on or is it that you go it's just like it's just going to the gym it really is just like going to the gym and just hitting every muscle you know that's that's how I actually that's how why I make myself go cuz I'm like this is the gym for my mind so inter because I've seen a huge shift in talking to you today about this than I have like 5 years ago six years ago you seem like a different person I'm I'm happier I'm more relaxed for sure I'm less I used to be so reactive well one I used to like take things personally and I would I would always had I had this fairness bone in me so I always felt like okay maybe someone trying to take advantage of me and that would just get me so upset and now I just don't care anymore and I'm just so much happier I'm probably getting taken advantage of just as much I just don't care anymore that's really interesting yeah whenever he would describe cuz I I met you once or twice briefly whenever he would describe you to me and you as well like it would well you were a little bit different the way he would describe you good my um but you it was always a very serious undertone kind of stoic and and uh yeah like this is very different mattered five years ago to me everything mattered you know no granted I was really driven I was building my business but and I I'm a very very detail oriented person um so everything mattered to me you know are we cool with me using the bathroom for course of course and I've just let things become not as important to me yeah and I realized like the things I thought were important just aren't and then you said on an interview that if you do anything you should do it to the best of your ability you used to I mean you said you wanted to be a mechanic I'm sure you worked on your was it Camaro or something like that all the time and youd take 3 hours to wash your cars when do you pick your battles of when do per perfectly versus when not to do it perfectly are you still this way or is this new N I think almost I think I on everything you do I think you should have pride in it I mean now that we're pointing at all of society's ills I'd say a lack of pride is something that I think people are very prideful don't you think so uh not in a not in an honest sense not in an like I think they're prideful in in terms of like don't injure their pride you know but I don't know if they're prideful in their acts like what they like I like everything I do to be I feel like that's ction of me so if I'm going to if I'm going to watch someone's car and I'm going to give them that car that car is going to be perfect I just I want to have pride in what I do no matter how meaningless it is so in honestly like in everything in my life I just do it great you know I don't have ass anything Graham described the difference in not work ethic but I would say just general productivity between you two is that you will grind throughout the entire year he says you will love to like work hard for like a month or two and if it goes well then you can take the rest of the year off that's a bit extreme but yeah and okay and then I asked gram I was like well who do you think is happier or more fulfilled and Graham guess what he said me I said Brett oh really yeah Brett seems more relaxed more Carefree I mean obviously I think there's been a substantial shift but I would say based on the last 10 years oh you seem to be more like work um focused on that Brett is very like you know I don't want to say Whimsical but very Carefree I get a ton of purpose from work so for me that makes me really happy um I probably have it depends on your personality yeah I need purpose in my life so I think you know what it was Jack asked me whose lifestyle would you want Brett's or Jason's and I said Brett's oh yeah that's an easy one Brett is I don't know though I love depending on your personality right I think it's a personality I would go crazy if like when we're chilling on the in NY notes for like two weeks I'm just like having the time he's like I got to get back you know you know what I mean so get that it depends on your personality it really does I enjoy my life more and his life would drive me nuts but you know it could be vice versa yeah so yeah I think it's individualistic I mean I just I need a lot of I get a lot of satisfaction from purpose and from drive and from work um and success I I just really enjoy that he doesn't need that so much you know I don't know exactly why I need that um but it makes me happy but it's interesting you guys have had such a similar upbringing but the values when it comes to that and what drives you are different to some extent true I mean I think there's way more similar and differences but there are certainly some differences I don't know everything is a nature versus nurture I don't really know the answer to that one but I would imagine I don't even know 5050 I don't I don't know how we ended up there but I just I just appreciate certain things more than he does and he appreciates certain things more than than I do but I think overall we have a lot of similarities where do you guys think your faults are cuz like your own personal Faults Are you insecure about anything or are you very secure and confident very secure and confident but I think I guess everybody has some well definitely faults I would imagine some insecurities I don't know if I have any insecurities though but I definitely have faults there's got to be something you're in you're insecure about having stuff in your teeth there's got to be something but I don't think we have any deep seated like structural debilitating insecurity though you got me on and it's always been that way or is it no I'd say that as we get older you know I'm more sure more confident uh I mean I think I was always a pretty confident guy but I would say that it was not as much of an inner confidence when I was younger as it is today you know there's like a more of a Bravado confidence when you're younger and more of like a uh relax for you confidence now I got true or confidence yeah um but you know faults yeah I mean you know everyone has that what would you say is a fault that you're working on or something that you you could be improving I work on my faults I just just ignore them I accept I accept them just suppress them and push them down I'm aware of them and then I embrace them I was trying to get out of answering that with a joke okay it's says way up saying it doesn't be false buted I want to say that okay I I also want to talk about da selfish I think dating publicly it's selfishness you think I think I'm selfish yeah really okay cuz that that seems very different than what you to do I think I love my life so much I don't like compromising it manifests selfishness let's put it that way I don't think I'm naturally actually selfish but I think the manner in which I live my life can be Loosely defined as partially selfish because I just do what I want to do when I want to do it you know what's interesting we had a podcast with Patrick B David who said that great leaders had to be selfish and it's better to have a selfish leader because someone who's too compassionate is going to take too much feedback they're not going to have results I would agree with that I don't think my selfishness comes from my leadership abilities I just think it's because I love my life so much I don't like to compromise and it makes me a little bit difficult to deal with sometimes but you know it's one of my wonderful faults I want to know in dating okay because on selling Sunset I'm guessing like the viewer demographic is like women 80 plus% 80% 80 plus% women there's a lot of boyfriends that get stuck watching no we have 80% of our Instagram followers are women but 80 that's not 55% because a lot of them watch what I have so many husbands and boyfriends coming out to me oh my I watch with my girlfriend with my husband I I would bet it's got to be 7030 70% women it might be I think he's probably I would say 6040 we don't have the demo on that I don't think the guys are watching every episode like you know their girlfriends or wives might be they're like stuck watching it and they kind of passively watching seeing it it's on the air cuz every guy that comes up says oh my God my girlfriend loves your show can I take a photo I'm like every time never like I love your yeah yeah exactly they just don't want to admit it so let me put some chaps to yeah how when when you're going out you're going out to a bar you're going out to a club okay you're having a good time maybe have a table or something like that when you say you're good with women can you maybe walk me through what exactly you mean by that like does the the women come up to you you go up to the women well first of all I'd say because of the show now it's probably easier you know but we've always been pretty good with women okay I think good with women means um confidence to approach them and then the personality to like really engage them make them laugh and then kind of like and then I mean there's a it's a pretty broad I'm like like such an pretty broad skill set but I think it's just part of like and indiff I think is I got I got to say this I remember this is like pre all the Netflix stuff but Jason was always just like a Sant when it comes to like speaking with women like always like everyone that would come to the office you just had this charm about you that they also super but this is the part where I found it funny uh someone would walk by the front of the office and you would either turn to Eric or I like hey was she cute I couldn't see it and have my glasses on and and Eric would usually have the better view he's said yeah she's cute all right I'll be right back and you would run out of the office remember this and you and sometimes she she's all the way down the block but you would just be running after you but sometimes you would come back and they would be either with you or you'd be like a she has a boyfriend or no she's married or sometimes you just have the number and you would just like text her right there your but you would just like run after people I've never seen that before I think I did that at least a couple times yeah but the success ratio was high like it wasn't like a 10% chance it seemed like very like I we had a lot of confidence with women which I think goes a long way I'm also extremely direct and honest with women and I think that's oddly um abnormal um so I think they appreciate that you know and I humor humor has a lot to do with it like we're really engaging and funny with with people but with women in particular they women love to laugh and you know so we don't take ourselves too seriously if you're conf and you're funny and you're and you're honest like you're in you know and not also like we're good boyfriends like I've never I'm not disrespectful to a woman in a relationship ever um you know don't ever cheat don't you know I'm just a thoughtful person I think okay so let's say you're approaching this woman on Sunset Boulevard you didn't you couldn't tell if she was attractive or not but someone said yeah she was attractive okay and you're like okay it was a little blurry for me you run out you chase after come with a pickup line right now I'm too hung over to think about but we never use lines like people ask us what L never once do I ever know what I'm going to say to I've heard about this and I actually kind of like this philosophy that you can have as much game as you want but it's not as successful as just being that guy as horrible and cliche as that sounds like I feel like there's some Merit to that you know what I mean yeah we're not we never read a book about picking up I don't you know I I don't I literally don't believe in knowing what you're going to say to a girl and tell you are like within 2T of her like I'll go up and like I have no idea what I'm going to say right now you're just beautiful and you walked by and I just wanted to come and say hi um what's your name I mean just something really honest it doesn't matter it's all you have your foot in the door that's it just get your foot in the door and then figure it out and also lean into your insecurity you're leaning into the stupidity of it like you don't always have to be like a tough guy you know you could be you could be this is the advice that I would give somebody who's like oh yeah I know but I'm like a nerd I wear glasses and there's no way I'm why does why don't you just go up to gr be like listen I'm kind of a shy introverted nerd I can't believe I'm doing but you are so beautiful come on I mean it doesn't matter lean into whoever you are like just be you you know don't try to be some like if you're a nerd don't try to have some like spit some stupid baller line you know what I mean up man insecure no business talking to you right now cuz you're way hotter than me but I can't help myself what's your name you don't think that's going to work I mean just be you L legit I've got have to go like are you interested in short bald guys and what do they say well I mean it's just a it's disarming like just any anything disarming and honest I mean anything that's not a pickup line I mean I would never don't be some like douche that reads a book about pickup lines just lean into whatever just you got to just be yourself eventually they're going to figure out who you are right so what's the point of like lying from the beginning do you ever get nervous if you see someone that's attractive like going up and talking to that person or not always a little bit nervous yeah it's a little bit but you're like a psychopath if you like go up to a hot girl and you have like literally no nervousness at you know what I mean um so you just go up you get your foot say whatever I'm just really trying to understand this and you are not fearful of being rejected at all no but no not really I mean no because I mean what what's the worst case scenario you're not going to can you can you bring up a scenario you're not going to date her if you don't talk to her I'd be more frustrated if I didn't talk to her you know what I mean that would eat at me far more than re can eat at me like for hours she was super so was there ever a time where you you showed up and you're hung over something and you were stumbling on your words and it just went horribly oh I'm sure oh yeah does any get like in your brain right now when I'm saying this or you just throw it out you don't even think about it oh my memory sucks it happened to me yesterday I was at the farmers market and I was with a couple of my buddies and um and there was two really beautiful women and we were watching them walk around I was like whatever and then we were walking home and they were in the car sitting on the sidewalk I'm like and my buddy was like kept walking like I'm going to go talk to these girls and I like go go talk to him and like you know it went fine but it didn't go great and and I and I waddled back to the like how do I go like you know and I knew I was going to get [ __ ] but I'm like whatever I don't [ __ ] care you know like who cares I me it wasn't like a negative interaction it was just like didn't I'm not going to end up dating them do you remember what you said when you walked out to them and just initiate the conversation was it the Vibes or was it what you said I they gave me the impression that they were like married or just not interested in a guy hitting on them it wasn't like they were offended by me going to talk to him I think they were actually kind of appreciated the attention but I just got the vibe of like this isn't going to happen um but I know it doesn't like bother me like in the in the slightest and also I don't I'm not I'm not saying that some unattractive like you know just nerdy whatever guy at the B just go to the bar just start relentlessly hitting on every Hawker like you know just ch I mean have some respect for your for you know for for don't don't just like try to get one out of a hundred you know and just like annoy the [ __ ] out everybody at the bar and be relentless like if I get a clue that it's not I'll back up I'm not one of those guys like no I'm going to talk to her seven times until she's creeped the [ __ ] out you know like I think guys should be respectful and don't you don't hit on 30 girls a night and and you don't creep on them or just stare at them for 20 minutes and not talk to them or if there's not a Vibe then just back off you know but have the balls if there's a girl in particular you're interested in have the balls and you definitely don't leave that bar without talking to her that's kind of my general I mean life is is about probability you know so if you're interested in meeting a woman then you have to increase that probability um I mean it's everything you I think feel like you can map everything out on a bell curve you know and if you got to just if you want something to happen then you just got to put yourself in a position where that's more likely to happen if you want to meet a girl then go to coffee don't have coffee at home go to a coffee shop I mean just that's it's all statistics MH you did the same thing with clients at open houses by the way sometimes people would leave and you wouldn't see them leave and I remember you running out the same way that you would see a girl walk by you'd run out and talk to that client as they're like driving away in their car you'd like flag them down talk I don't have a ton of Shame I'll just I'll just do whatever and like again I mean if you if you're going to have that lack of Shame like if you're going to you know have that confidence then be authentic like I think if there's I'm trying to think about when you said why we're good with women I wouldn't use that term I would say authenticity is probably confidence and authenticity are two things that and through confidence and authenticity comes honesty and and uh you know a lot of other things like women respect I I think everything emanates from from confidence I think everything kind of almost in life emanates from confidence like real confidence not like bravado arrogance but like if you really believe believe that you're just like you know a good human being who deserves you know to be happy essentially you're not going to be negative and talking [ __ ] to people you're not going to lie to a girl to try to sleep with her you're not like from that Foundation comes a lot of other positive attributes if you really just have to have that Foundation I would love if you can give Jack some dating advice this always I me you're welc this is the best it's going to get what do you want what's your situation what do you want what do I want I mean okay so I'm open to anything that's kind of where I'm at uh I don't want to pige and hold myself into a certain thing OB boys girls I mean girls okay yeah I will pige and hold myself into that Niche but uh yeah I I I would obviously eventually I want to find the person I do want to have a lifelong partner I think that's a pretty I would say objective thing for me which would be good what's eventually um in a year and like I mean I don't want to rush into it right like I don't want to you met her now if I met her now I I would like more experience I suppose before but who am I to deny you know a a perfect lifelong mate so I told Jack the person who he is at 25 is going to be totally different at 30 yeah but you can also 25 okay but you can grow with them which the other thing too which is interesting because everyone when they're thinking about uh dating advice or finding a significant other they're thinking about those actions like those direct actions of meeting the person when I think it's interestingly I think and maybe paradoxically I think working on yourself makes you attract I I think reason that we are good with women or whatever want to put it is because we're very secure and confident when we're alone you know I mean if you want to go out and and like meet a great woman make sure that you're at home alone and you're happy and you're confident and you you know feel good about yourself cuz then you project that when you go out let's assume women can like uh well I'm saying like but working on that is probably more important than working on let's let's break down what you just said to be at home alone and happy with yourself what sort of metrics what more for women like I think women make very bad decisions often with men and it's not because they're they're always like why do I choose the wrong guy like that's not they're not choosing the wrong guy they're just not happy with themselves and that's the problem so instead of f they always focusing on why am I choosing the wrong guy they're not focusing on themselves and it's the same thing with men too I mean I think you just if you work on your from place of SEC you're going to find a good person remember when I said if you're if you're I forget exactly how I phrase it but if you have a foundation and Co confidence and and happiness then you have gravity for other good things you don't it's exact opposite everything NE you'll go to a bar and you will meet a a beautiful and and that woman will be secure too like you'll draw a secure intelligent you know uh woman you are I do want to dive deeper into what you said about existing alone in your house and being happy and confident and secure and all that stuff so what metrics and what other things do you use to determine whether or not you're happy like like what could be affecting that experience that you just said that's a tough one for me so if somebody if somebody's home and they're not happy they're not stoked what would you recommend they do oh there could be a million different things that are making them not happy I mean I think you just so how do they figure it out well we talked about this just those little things of of a certain control over your life you say it's purpose get purpose go to the gym eat well cleaning your environment going to the gym there's only there's certain things that everybody almost everybody has well everybody first has a body so assert control over that assert over that second most the M vast majority of people have uh a place where they they you know a habitat assert control over that take pride in that just start at the absolute Basics if you have a job even if you don't like it be the employee the whatever you have control over prideful of what you're doing control over that and and have pride over that and then things emanate from that and also treating people really well makes you feel good about yourself so even though you're doing something nice and you know it's supposed to be altruistic it actually makes you feel a lot better so one that's thing you can control you can control the way that you treat people and that gives you confidence it makes you feel good work be very prideful in everything you do including your work and then take care of your body take care of your health you're if you're doing all those things you're probably going to be a lot happier I think a lot of that is not being attached to a certain outcome like if you're happy by yourself at home you're not going to be too dependent on this other person I think that's why people make bad decisions because they're they're they are seeking a boy or a girl to make them fulfilled and if that is the reason you're out there you're going to pick up right you're not a whole yeah there's so many women that I know that that are like why do I keep making the same mistake with men I mean it is definitely not that they're making bad decisions is that they're looking to fulfill something there's a few reasons for that too there's a lot of women that I know that that are dating athletes there's also like it's like I want a super sexy sophisticate like worldly wealthy confident outgoing super funny like huge personality I'm like that guy is banging every girl in La you know I mean like I'm not saying that that doesn't sound like a great guy but for God's sake maybe maybe date an accountant you know who's like really nice and like charming and and loyal and and and generous and and a kind person you know I mean like you are common sense if you really want like a husband don't freaking date the NBA player no offense to all NBA players you know that's like gregarious and like has knows everybody and walks in the club and just [ __ ] with the bounc it's like that guy is cool to be with but seriously I mean use some [ __ ] common sense you know that guy's GNA cheat on you and be an [ __ ] I think it goes the the other way too with guys that go for women who just you know they're not going to necessarily make the best wife but you know they'll be attracted to that yeah it it goes for both I I I guess I see it a lot more in women because I have this conversation a lot more with women and if I'm talking women are better at being uh monogamous too generally you can find a very successful gorgeous Confident Woman that is very down to just be monogamous yeah generally speaking even more so in La like the very the really outgoing confident successful good-look guy probably is less inclined to be monogamous you know it's just a testosterone yeah do you think that's just an options thing maybe in La more options Disneyland for for thaty yeah I mean I would argue that most Mar a lot of marriages across this country um are monogamous because of of default because they're not presented options I mean if you took those marriages and you put them into like you know the middle of West Hollywood for 5 years and you know you had beautiful people around all them they probably would have a less likely chance of being together yeah but when you never meet be when you don't see beautiful women all day long it's a lot easier to be monogamous at home I'm sure is that one of the reasons why you've decided maybe not to get married at this point yeah I'm sure if I was in De Mo Iowa my chance of being married would be higher I don't think it would be Skyhigh but it' be higher than being in West Hollywood yeah there's no place I could probably be to that would lower my chances of marriage more than West Hollywood yeah there was a divorce lawyer who's making his rounds right now on podcast uh I think James seon who's incredible but he was saying something that I think it was fewer than 20% of marriages last and are actually happy 50% end in divorce and then about 30% stayed together for the kids but they're not happy I would say that track with with my uhac I would have guessed maybe 10 to 15% yeah and we're and we're you know we analytical so you know you look at those statistics and I'm not I know everyone thinks they're not a statistic but you by definition you are a statistic I I would imagine marriage would be considered you guys are homies and then part open relationship multiple Sol everyone's going to figure out their own solution but do you think that that would be productive do you think that that is a good way to well given what Graham just said do you think that's productive with the statistics Graham just said 20% of people happy I would say I mean the B how can you but how can you get that number just strictly off of the the relationships and stuff like that sorry the 20% of people or 20 happy in marriage well you're saying productive but the think it's good for society that people are not taking a traditional well happiness is better for society I think there more people that are happy that I mean I'm a utilitarian so I think overall happiness is the moral goal and if you have a lot and I think this is true a lot of marriages that are unhappy that cannot be good I mean as like the majority how is that how is that sustainable but what about back in the day I mean they also weren't happy back in the day yeah but they it likes to Eng Grand eyes like the olden days you know like they different cult go back to the 30s 40s 50s they were they you got married and you never got divorce but 80% of them were unhappy that's not marriage I think started with with for financial reasons it didn't start from love religion I think you kind of do need some sort of like lifelong partnership to like Foster a good productive Society with family units and stuff I I think that's a good thing if it's happy what if 80% of them are unhappy then I think it's more of a personal thing than it is probably a familiar thing maybe people are getting together for the wrong reasons we've tried marriage for over 100 but you have better structures I don't think people get together for the wrong Reas I think people stay together for the wrong reasons and that's why they're unhappy okay I might be able to get but I mean if if you have a system like that's that's been failing for Generations whether it's like you know Public Schools or or the institution of marriage what's the solution I just don't know if it has been feeling maybe I could be living in like a little bubble and I'm not referencing I'm not refc sure static let's assume those statistics are true though just for the purpose of argument sure that 80% of people are in marriages are not happy 50% end of divorce I think it's higher than that and 30% of the remaining 50% are unhappy So 20% of people are pretty sustainably happy when you get M you have a one in five chance I would say statistically being of actually living with that yeah that being your one soul anous mate that you're happy with for purpose of this argument let's just assume that's true so we don't fight the right what other institution would survive with 20% success rate it's difficult though because I went through and I looked up all of these statistics about like you know what couples are least likely to get divorced and it does go down to about 25% if you're over the age of 25 college educated and make a certain amount of money well I think waiting to get married is probably is because I think that marriage is a great institution um but I think that it's just it's rushed into I think that people should my dad got married last week at 75 I think people should be getting married later you know well maybe maybe it could survive with with different um like I mean I have no stake in this game I all things being equal I kind of hope it survives but if I had to bet on it I don't know but maybe uh maybe you do I don't know maybe there's a solution where you try to encourage people to do it later but what are you going to do say be wealthier and be educated and be older I mean that you can't force that on a societ make more money what kind of how would the kids be raised in this sort of like thing that we're we're describing that I mean I have hold on real quick we've already said that 50% of kids are being raised by a single parent already in this in this structure that it is right now MH and 30 that's it's but I don't an additional 30% are being raised by a what is the data on on these kids that are being raised up in single parent households when probably not as good as I know I'm just giving you this stats cuz you're ask because you're the way you phrase that question made it sound like everybody's being raised by married couples 50% of kids are being raised by single parents according to this if we're if we're agreeing with this stat another 30% of kids are being raised by a couple that aren't happy with each other so that the the question itself you know kind of cheats the the issues but 80% of kids are already in a bad spot well one I think people probably have there'll be less kids which I think is probably a good thing it's like we need population um so I think people are being more careful about the decision to have kids and the decision to get married I think those are both healthy I think that it's there's not a mandate anymore that you have to have a kid to be like a successful person that used to be a man you know basically mandate for last 100 years fertility rates are plummeting in developed countries absolutely plummeting but I think the main risk to society is not global warming it's it's fertility rates and it's a guaranteed that we're going to die out essentially guaranteed unless we change something dramatically that we're just going to die out as a population if you look at China and Japan and South Korea and the United States every every single country in the world has fertility rate below two Yes except for some of the countries in Africa the entire world only two is sustainable because there's a I think right now man and a woman having a need every couple the average is 1.7 yeah and and the wealthier the country the more developed the country the lower the fertility rate like a direct relationship with that so if it wasn't for Africa who will eventually get developed enough to have less than two fertility rate that's if you really want to talk about threats existential threats to society that's number one two 3 four five and six is think about less kids is it just because they have more options they don't need societ almost mandated that you have a kid or you were you were weird now it's it's become normalized to not have a the wealthier more intelligent you are I don't exactly know why but this is just a fact the wealthier more intelligent more developed Society you live in the less kids you have I mean that is a fact throughout the world that's not I mean we example I don't exactly know why you know 50 years ago you would have a kid already you would May would have a kid You' have six but now you don't because used have six you can be 40 and not have a kid and it's normalized but we're pivoting that that is an interesting thing to talk about but we're pivoting from uh from marriage so let me ask you well that's also been normalized too open relationships fluid relationships you know whatever type of non- monogamous situation those are normalized now and my guess is in 52 100 years it will be probably even the dominant Rel stat do you think that that's moving in the right direction for society or do you feel like it's better to have more of a constrained uh well I don't think constraint is a good thing in of itself I don't think you know defined constraints are good I think happiness is good sure so if the and I don't know if there's enough studies on these relationships but if we look in 50 years and people are happier and in happier relationships then I think by definition um those structures are are better than the current system believe in choice and being open-minded I I don't know the solution I just know that I don't see a solution right now unhappy marriages is not cannot be the answer and there are too many people in unhappy marriages I mean if I so you might as well try meet another guy who tells me not to get married I mean that's the whole concept of Federalism is try have the states be the Laboratories of I forget what the exact term is of of experimentation try different things in different states as opposed to forcing one thing on the on on all of the United States and that's kind of the beauty of of our Federalist system so with marriage why don't we tried tons of different types of relationships see what works for some people some works for other people there's no way there's going to be one solution for everybody because people are so different and I don't know the answer I just I know that I don't see an answer right now and you think that you're going to be the 20% as does everybody else who gets married but you have an 80% chance I guess you're wealthy and educated and and over 25 so maybe you have a 50% chance whatever it is but the institution's already changed too it used to be you couldn't have interracial marriages you couldn't have gay marriages so it's we've already finally normalizing different types of relationships and that's obviously a positive you know what I mean um so I think it's just going to continue yeah I mean what was interesting is that we we spoke with someone recently um was talking about arranged marriages and how those were actually the happiest overall they had the most fulfillment they were the happiest and they stayed together the longest yeah maybe it's the exact opposite of us being West interesting uh uh studies as well because people are happier with their decision when they don't have a choice yes that's been proven in studies so which is why people are less like you give somebody 20 options at a restaurant let's say or 30 options at a restaurant or whatever it is they'll generally be less happy with their choice of food than if you give them four options um if you give somebody is the so if you give somebody one option and you tell them like this is your wife and you don't think that you have any other option you probably actually psychologically will be happier with that person because you don't have any other options and you know don't if you're looking around you're like oh I couldn't married that person I couldn't married that person you're probably going to be less happy that's why all all weddings give you three choices on the and I'm kid but I have heard that that's uh the studies show that three options is is that's why marriages are probably don't last as well in I like that's why basking Robbins is not many options but I want to get back to you dating so you think that this is I mean maybe it will work for you but I know it will work for me and I know by definition I am part of a statistic or whatever but I'm very confident in the same way that you have confidence in every way every decision you walk through life with I have a lot of confidence in this one so you're looking for that now or or you just know you want like I said I I don't I I mean I'm looking for anything I like I'm I've openness to experience right are you not out there dating like what are you doing yeah I am dating yeah okay yeah don't get defensive calm down bro we get it settle that yeah I know I'm totally daed a ton of people too they're really hot okay so why would you need advice like what's wrong with well I I don't think I do the thing is like I I've received a lot of advice over the course of the past couple of years years specifically from Graham from other people select people as well it's funny I don't and it's good it's been very productive for me and I think that I'm finally at the point obviously I'll continue learning I'll continue getting experience and stuff like that but I think I'm I'm pretty I think I've kind of good I would then I don't have any advice for you thank keep being you bro all right I'll try there got to be something you could ask of course there are things I can work on um the main thing I suppose that I have but I don't think that there's anything that you could necessarily say hopefully you can uh to solve this would be the fear of rejection and then there's also one other thing when you talk to somebody in a friendly manner but you have romantic interest in them for me it's very hard to break through that barrier of platonic to nonplatonic I don't know how to necessarily navigate that transition that is the one thing that's always been very tricky for me the other thing is the fear of rejection if I could solve this is noral and if you got rid of fear of rejection you'd be a those two things are related right but but but people conquer it right so it's of course it's normal I you can minimize it um but again those two things are related if you internalize rection there's with you then I won't you as much you know there's a milon reasons one of the supporting Frameworks that you have that allow yeah if you take things personally you know or internalize uh other people's actions then you're going to be sensitive to rejection uh that's not but there does have to be a certain thing where you need a reality check of like okay well I've asked out 100 girls in a certain Manner and they've all rejected there's no guy that I think gets rejected and and like it doesn't right it can sometimes be a reflection of you right some like we got to beor you're right it be reflection you know if there's a pattern generally a reflection of circumstan women are far more open uh than men are I think physically you know women I think are find um personality you know safy security like so many things as more important um men I think are much more superficial in I think I think men take it as a reflection of their looks and or their lack of money when it's really reflection of lack of confidence I think that or just a bad personality could be that too could be always say I didn't get that girl cuz she cuz she wants a guy with more money and she wants a six foot dark hair with no dude you're either douche or you're insecure you know it's a personality and then it leads guys to like front you know and that's the worst thing you can do is not be yourself not be authentic people see right through that that's the thing it can take eventually they do yeah eventually they will no I think that's good so so you would say to somehow Eclipse that platonic to nonplatonic oh that's a I mean that's a very is this like a friend you've had no this is just like like like you're talking to somebody and and I would say gauging interest maybe not even platonic to nonplatonic but like gauging interest you're talking to someone casually in a bar right and then like you're kind of waiting for a we light I'm not the type to be like okay like am I good am I not good like I'll just kind of stand there and just be like this and then like I was Jack and she'll like brush my arm and I'm like that seems like like 5% me say Jack in it he can't see it there's so many times where I tell Jack dude that girl was into you no no she wasn't into me I'm like dude I could I could see it she was no no she wasn't and then plenty of times too where he's like d I'm really into this girl I'm like she's not into you at all and I could see just by the messages I mean this is like a friend it's not going any I don't think you have a great gauge on that I do every time no you have not been right every time gra you are so wrong you cannot remember the dinner one you were going to go that's one specific one yeah because it was the most recent it was like two weeks ago which dinner one was like two weeks ago there's also some Nuance to that but we can we can work around that yeah there are some new nuances to that anyways he's not right all the time and he's been wrong actually a lot can are better with SE move of course I agree I do agree with that but I will say he's dis surprisingly wrong what what's the risk of just trying to take it plas bonic every time what's the risk just denial I mean what's the risk of just asking if you don't know if she's interesting just ask for her number what's what if she sees you as a friend it's like how do you deter I can't read before you let's go to dinner so what okay but I'm thinking like more straightforward like hey are you into me but you got to do it way that's desperate that's yeah you winced when I said it you why why you do it way before you're you're friend with this person like that takes like a month but do it on the first date see what'll happen Jack will ask for a number she'll say yes he'll say let's grab dinner she'll say yes and then over dinner she'll be like oh so I'm thinking of starting a YouTube channel and this and it's just it's platonic there's nothing rantic there that's not what happened where are you getting that information from there been a few times you told me hyp that could that that happens to me sometimes or like I'm looking at in real estate and I'm like okay maybe this is not you know happens that happens don't okay I'm sure I'm sure it does happen never to me though always like to me it doesn't happen to me as often as it happens to you I'm just saying it happens probably happens to you a lot right oh all the time every single day basically yeah but no it's it's actually it's not too tough out there at at a given time it kind of was tricky it's can be fun out there I mean people complain but I think it's fun I agree there's a lot of good people out there by the way I do not believe in a Mr Right and a Mrs Right There are probably 50,000 or 100,000 Mr rights and Mrs rights for every person you don't meet your soulmate you have there's a probably a million soulmates for you out there so it's not that hard well I do think obviously that there is one person out there that you are most compatible with but there is a statistic you Mar you're not going to find you were to live years single you know thailander possibly yeah more densely populated areas right no I'm just saying there's one person a scale you L up out of 8 billion the chance of that person being in LA and ever come into contact with luy to get someone in the top 400,000 right I agree but I I I think and you're prob nobody on the planet is with their soulmate statistically nobody is with soul St there's always one billion people that means there 4 billion potential partners that is if they were to marry every single person no there's there's 8 billion potential partner she date babies through 8y olds okay so we that's true I me but there's probably you know 300 million potential Partners sure okay I what I'm trying to say is I think you're probably in agreement with this I've always thought that there's a threshold of compatibility if you exceed this threshold with some other person then you are viable lifelong partners with them but you can obviously go higher and higher and higher and higher on this like range of compatibility but as long as you're over the threshold you're okay now I don't want to hold out for someone that's just over the threshold you know what I'm saying like I want to try to find someone that's not only over the threshold but like as high as I can Poss says everybody who's ever gotten a relationship but I agree there's no Mr and M and by the way so the more confident you are when you're at home alone watching Netflix you know doing your thing the more the less you're going to settle and that so therefore the the better spouse you're going to choose so if you really need a girlfriend you're not and you're insecure and you're not happy with yourself you're going to just as soon as you hit the threshold you get a seven you're you're going to lock down but if you're super confident in yourself so you don't you're not trying to to fulfill something with a relationship then you're going to say you know what s down until I get a nine right and then guess what you get you end up getting a nine might take longer so I think those relation being bat [ __ ] crazy I don't n in terms of looks n in terms of like threshold overall nine yeah yeah so if you found somebody in like the the top one percentile I have many times I say every girlfriend that I've had is top one percentile doesn't mean that I'm going to get married but I you know I don't think there's anything wrong when do you disqualify people in dates what does it require I mean we could have a dating say you know like well there's a scale if you're super high it depends where my are you have aart to Crazy SK there are other YouTube videos on this you don't need me for that someone someone said I think it was Ty Lopez actually we had him on the podcast recently he asked what I was interested in women and I said like number one I said intelligent he said yes well there are actually plenty of studies that exist that say that like you're most compatible with people that are in one standard deviation of your IQ which I thought was really interesting so like it you can't just say you're in attracted to intelligent people because if you're intelligent by by the St if you are very intelligent you're going to need an intellect and if you're an Elon Musk I mean you can't just be you know you have to group like from very select gr there may be nobody who can satisfy intellectual you know Curiosities yeah but I don't think that you I mean that's one category yeah I think there's a range of intelligence that I would be willing to be with long term from like a six to a 10 on intelligence scale depending on where she is every other on everything it would be the same thing for overall happiness like I like a happy person um a confident person a beautiful person funny you take too seriously yeah respectful you can be you can be better you can be super smart and [ __ ] in conversation and vice versa so there's so many categories everyone s has to sacrifice you're not going to be all those things sex life I mean there's so like if she's a 10 in bed and a six on intelligence I'd rather that than a 10 in intelligence and a six in bed I don't know think but but either way Maybe not maybe not everything's a you know that's a tough one that's a really there's a lot of diagrams I have to figure it all that but you know everything got be a flowchart and there's so many different categories of of characteristics that you got to consider so I mean you know right it depends what you want in life too are you just looking for sex are you looking for marriage are you looking for kids so you know parenting skills maternal instincts that's huge if you're looking for a mom you know so I mean it depends on what you're looking for that's interesting that you don't plays very much importance on that uh yeah I don't you know I don't because well he needs to be mothered so I would that I would definitely look into that like I would think okay how was this person raised by their parents because realistically it's probably going to be something akin to that right how we would ra Jud have [ __ ] childhood a great mom but yeah yeah so your skills your your list of characteristics is different than ours right you know right of course and Graham yours I'm sure is different from ours as well I'm just trying to Loop him into the conversation I'm just actively listening I thought so he loves to like when in any l in the convers he just like directs all conversations towards me and dating what are you finding today in the real estate market it was interesting it was two and a half years ago by the way you made a prediction that you said that home prices would remain high and that inventory would be really low because no one would want to sell when interest rates go up and you film that with us when interest rates I think were about 3% before they started hiking rates the one thing you did get wrong was that you said that homes above 5 million would not be affected because a lot of those buyers are cash and they don't care and you said the hardest hit properties would probably be in the one to three range CU that's where they're very interest rate sensitive it seems like now the 1 to three range is holding up whereas the over five is really taking a hit because those buyers are pulling back you mean in terms of volume or prices prices I'd say say that's right with everything you just said yeah well but I'd say that that the lower I mean everything has taken probably down about 10 or 15% from the high but I'd rather be selling a $ 1.5 million house right now than a $15 million I mean obviously for the commission I'd rather to yeah but I think that's always the case I mean I don't think there's ever been a time where you rather but I think the highend ultra high end has gotten hit harder than the low end which is well the man the Mansion tax I think really hurt the high that was not predictable um i' would say outside the Mansion tax we'd we'd be seeing a much healthier and robust uh transaction volume not anywhere near what we were used to but like Nationwide I think the volume in most cities for uh luxury has dropped about 25 to 35% and I think in La where at about 60% and I think that has to do with the Mansion T what do you think is going to happen over the next two to five years just overall around in La then um we're never going to see a return to the robust consequen of the highend market or development development shut basically shut down what about around the country not necessarily just LA but just in general for someone watching this they want to know your ins I think interestes are going to come down probably in within you know 12 days8 to 12 months I'd say it's a little sooner maybe and I think I think macroeconomic we're pretty sound we really are I think this is really an interest rate driven issue um that's not true of like office space and some retail because after coid and cultural shifts are going to remain in in effect maybe forever for generations and I wouldn't want to be anywhere near that sector but for residential I feel like macroeconomic Trends are strong the only issues really is real estate I mean pardon me is interest rates and I think yeah I'd say 12 to 18 months I mean look i crystal ball about 12 to 18 months interest rates will probably come down and I think that will have to around 5% I'm guess a linear you know reaction with I mean we're not going to go back to 2021 you know in terms of that nor should we I mean that was just too in terms of what interest rates or in terms of volume and Sal everything so in terms of interest rates we're not I mean I hope we don't go back below 3% that's just that's not sustainable it creates too much growth um and too much speculation and um and I also don't think we're going to see that type of of sales volume that we saw in 2021 we're not going to see that type of price increase I mean 2021 was an anomaly I hope that we don't see like four to 5% interest rates on a 30-year loan under five would be great sustainable healthy enough you know and I think the market will I think I think it was core logic that said 4 and a half% would be the Tipping Point that the majority of people who have a rate locked in at 2 and a half to 3 and a half% would consider selling at 4 and a half% anything above that would pres would cause them to stay yeah yeah I mean I don't know if there's any particular but I'd say about four four and a half would be fine it's all a sliding skill as IND go down you're going to see more volume um and development you can't develop right now because you know construction loans are just too expensive so between I mean La specifically is going to have a really hard time with yeah but I mean his we're talking about nationally what's your advice to someone who's thinking about buying a house right now is it to wait uh no well I would probably if I were looking to buy I'd probably wait three to six months and and try to pick up but if you find the right house and you can truly afford it yeah but I would also negotiate if I was a buyer I'd be I'd be writing a low offer right now try to get next year's pricing today I mean I think that if things soften you want to bake that in uh I wouldn't buy right now unless I wouldn't stretch right now a deal if I could really afford something and I had a partner we we needed a place to live and we were whatever like depending on your situation you find a great house you negotiate the you negotiate it hard your finances are reflective of being able to hold that house for the next 10 years pretty much no matter what happens there's no reason not to buy but if you you know are stretching and you're like single and you're just like I have to get real estate and I I can get this you know house if I if I don't if I get a shittier car and if I don't eat out for dinners if I can hold this like just chill for a little bit buy and like you know wait for things to play out the issue that I see is when you look at the the price to buy versus rent renting is half the the cost right now yeah renting probably makes more sense than than buying but not in the long term you know so I don't know if it makes sense it's to rent for one year if you really want to buy a house you might as well just I think the break even when I did the math on this was about 10 to 12 years where becomes Break Even between the difference between buying and renting when you account for closing costs maintenance well that's what it is right now though with interest rates factor for appreciation uh net 1% over the next 10 years because I'm counting for maintenance and random things going up in price like your insurance going up in in price property taxes going what did you account for property appreciation before you Ned everything 2% 2% average annual that's low that's low over the next 10 years from today I don't necessarily think come on statistically I don't think I don't think it's going to be low when you look when you look at over 100 years stally if you look over 100 years no it depends on the area but then you also have to take into account area uh inflation after inflation small town in Texas maybe but what are we talking you're telling me that a million dollar house in 10 years is going to be worth 1.28 million possibly in a major city where we talking about uh no just just overall I'm talking about like a national that's lower than Cisco know if there's been a 10year span where real estate is I'm sure there has but statistically that's low that's all I think when you adjust for inflation I think that number might well now we're talking that could be below infl that that that could be high if we're for inflation but that's not fair because rents will go up over 10 years according to inflation yeah that that will track the same potentially but rents are falling right rents are falling right now I because I think gener track prices are falling everyone who's locked in that 2 and a half% mortgage is going to want to sell it and so if interest rates stay high everyone's going to turn into going to start R but that's not a that's a that's a two-year problem that's not a 10 year problem I could I could see that being a three to six year problem a lot of rates should still be high in three years possibly if they remain at 5% yeah five because the other thing is you're not getting a a 30e fixed anymore so a sevene like two years ago a 3% was actually 3% because everyone was getting a 30-y year um now a three you know a 7% is really a 6% because no one's getting a a two Nuance we can agree there shouldn't be any fomo right now if you can't truly afford something in the long term hold it for at least 10 years and it's a great property and you think you're getting a great priz buy it other other than that like there should be no rush right now can we just all agree on that yeah all right thank you so much really appreciate that thank you Jason uh for coming on the show I'm so glad to make this happen and and one thing I obviously I kind of have like this like pseudo relationship with you guys because I know you by proxy via gram um so I feel feel like I I know you guys and I feel like you have been a distant mentor of mine you know my mentor yeah a lot of the advice you and Jason give me I pass giv it right back I wasn't aware of that that's that's nice so it's actually helped quite a bit so I appreciate that even though I've never really met you but pleas for all the help totally my pleasure jumping on this I love that what you guys are doing love my brother and I both are fans of the podcast and you guys personally it's it's fun to jump on here so you should be doing this more often cuz you're so good speaking and like maybe you don't have an interest in it I don't have an interest in it reason I do it is because of our personal relationships um but you're right maybe I should do it more often maybe this will encourage me and you give one shout out you give one shout out for the episode to like what do you mean whatever you want to say to the audience you could tell them watch selling Sunset you could tell him to you know check out soccer you know I'm gonna do that tell the check out um season season eight of no season seven [ __ ] there's been so many season s of selling sunsets coming out on November 3rd so is like what day is that Monday no no wait sorry Friday that's Friday Friday yeah Frid on Friday is this coming out before that uh after just two days after okay fine so if you haven't already checked out selling Sunset do that also I am a huge Graham knows I'm gonna do this I'm a huge US soccer fan so I just the World Cup is coming to the United States we're hosting it for the first time in a generation in 2026 so do a little bit of research figure out what's going on because it's going to be really exciting you can look into the US Men's National Team the soccer team and that's who's representing the United States in the World Cup it's a phenomenal sport we got lonel Messi the best player in the world now playing in the United States so just open up your mind to soccer because it's been a lot of fun for me so I just want to give that little 30 second shout out Li Messi is not the best but with that said you guys no I'm kiding I'm k no I think L Messi is with that said you guys thank you so much for watching next time until next time we're really excited to announce today's sponsor HubSpot look I could say from experience that running a business could often feel like juggling a whole bunch of things at the same time and one of the most overlooked aspects that most people don't even consider is digital marketing that is exactly where HubSpot comes in they've recently acquired the hustle which is a newsletter started with just one person and is now skyrocketed to over 3 million followers hpot in the hustle have teamed up to bring you a comprehensive guide on exactly what you need to do to build an effective newsletter and I say all of this as somebody who has a newsletter already with over 40,000 people on it if you're not doing a newsletter you absolutely should consider it because it's so powerful Graham that sounds really expensive well the good news is that this is completely free and by signing up for the newsletter you're not only gaining access to Super valuable tips and tricks but you're also becoming a part of the hustle thriving business Community it's a place where entrepreneurs like you can connect and watch other businesses flourish now you might be wondering are newsletters even relevant in this day and age well when it comes to digital marketing volume is key and when done right newsletters can drive thousands of visitors straight to your website HubSpot provides the tools expertise and strategies you need to make your newsletter stand out and again I'll tell you from firsthand experience having a newsletter is so important because the people you reach that sign up with a newsletter are the ones you really want to reach out to so don't put this off don't just think oh I'll do it later take your business to the next level with HubSpot so click the link in the description to check out your free newsletter building guide again it's free that's F re free free thank you so much HubSpot and now back to the podcast