“This Is Why You’re Broke!” - How To Get MASSIVE Wealth In 2025 | Ken Coleman

no one is sitting around today thinking about how they can help you if you want to help yourself and change your future you have to take mass of responsibility I recently just changed job sorry I'm going to get upset okay you just do you every caller is calling and they're looking for confidence the work I'm doing though is not quite what I thought it was going to be it's understand that a great coach doesn't just tell someone or show someone how to do what they need to do they Empower them to do it gosh you know exactly what to do yeah set yourself free man content is a wonderful thing what am I supposed to do with my life every human will one day wonder that question that's fascinating to me once you seek Clarity then confidence takes care of itself there's your answer so what do you do with the people who are lazy lazy is a symptom the source of the laziness [Music] is Ken Coleman thank you so much for coming on host to the ramsy show really appreciate it what have you learned from Dave and what makes him stand out above other people that he's the genuine article he really is the same guy in meetings uh around a fireplace with a cigar he's the same guy now his his the way he may come across may be a little bit different in in personal or professional settings when he's not on the air but one of the things that I've been just so uh uh genuinely impressed with having known him for 20 plus years now work with him for 10 is that he's the genuine article he really and I'm not trying to stay on that one theme but that's the thing that impresses me most um is that uh he he is a guy who lives what he believes there's just no hypocrisy there so that's that's one thing the other thing is is U he surrounds himself with really good people is very very disciplined with that and you know that's an entire topic like that to me is probably is at this stage of my life and career um as I've got three teens one's in college now um the data is clear that 95% of your success or failure in life is directly related to the people you hang out with and this is from the Harvard study the longest study on relationships that's ever been done continues to this day that's one of their key findings and you know he's just very intentional from how we hire who we hire from a professional standpoint but then in his personal life uh just very disciplined and very selective in who he hangs out with that's interesting I haven't heard about that Harvard study so you're saying 95% of your Su success is derived from who you spend your time with success or failure success or failure how do they even conduct a study like I'm curious because this this to me is like Earth shattering oh yeah statistics so you can look it up you can Google it and find it in one second it's been going on now for 80 plus years oh wow so they've been following people from birth to death and they're following generational so they're following entire families and they've been this is an ongoing study it is you talk to any psychologist anybody that's an expert in the field of relationships it's the gold standard it's so there's so much that's come from that study as you can imagine I mean it's like a beautiful onion but that's the piece of data that I've locked in on and I share that all the time because if you think about every area of your life just set this this this for you you think about your financial life you think about your relational life you think about your professional life think about your physical life if we just leave it to that okay and we can throw spiritual in there if you're a person that considers yourself to be spiritual let's take those five areas of your life if you were to sit down right now Jack and kind of score yourself out kind of go okay am I winning in each of these areas when you look at whether you're winning or losing that study would tell you dig in winning or losing and you can extrapolate from that that I'm winning largely or I'm losing largely because of the people I spend the most time with and the whole takeaway of that is is the unbelievable influence that we have on each other as humans that's the big takeaway so how can like the viewer apply this in their own life you're just saying like maybe write down how you think you're performing in those categories map out your friends and see if there's any like lagging people there let's take money for instance let's just so where are you feel so you're listeners right now all right folks where are you at you're winning financially or you losing are you just kind of hovering you rate it write it down this a fabulous exercise I'm doing okay all right now look at the people you spend the most time with are they doing okay in their finances are they winning in their finances you're going to see a correlation and you could just keep on going with that you know are you are you winning physically do you have good habits and how you eat how you exercise yes no average whatever you want to do there great average suck whatever and think about the people you're spending time with and you know Jim ran also popularize this you know the the legendary kind of motivational guys like The Five People You spend time with you know so you know this is not a New Concept but this is actual data like the data is you can have opinions all you want to I like data and so when you begin to look at that you go okay and so what's happening is as you begin to do inventory on your life do inventory on your friends there's going to be correlation so if I if I need to change something in my life should probably change the time I'm spending with these people change my friends now that sounds heartless I'm not saying that you just go break up with everybody in your life but I would begin to put some boundaries up audit it audit it put boundaries up where we need boundaries by the way this this applies to family as well if you have a family member that's pulling you down you need some boundaries that's real and so what happens is to give you an example uh Dave Ramsey challenged me years ago in this companywide Marathon challenge half marathon challenge he guilted me in front of the entire staff Coleman you got to run I hate running I love exercising I hate running long story short he put me put the pressure on me I said I'll do it so I decided I need a stretch goal in order to do this or I'm going to wake up one day and go I'm a grown man I'm not going to run I'm going to watch football today and so we had the stretch goal and I called A buddy of mine who was an ultramarathon I said I need you to train me and I said I'm going to need you to run with me a few times because I inherently knew that if I run with a better Runner he's going to set a better Pace than me and by running with him on one of those long runs he's just a better Runner he's in better shape I knew my performance would be better because he's setting the pace I am it's almost like he's pulling me in this gravitational pull that's the example here of what we take away from that as we audit and we look at okay who do we need to be spending time with I want to spend time with people if I don't like where I'm at financially I want to start spending time with dudes that or my wife and I spending time with couples that are ahead of us financially that are because they're going to set a pace and I think that's the that's the real richness of that idea it's really interesting so when people call in and you're giving them advice on the show what's one of the commonalities that really stands out to you or what's what's one of the most memorable calls that you've gotten yeah that that's that's a different question and it it's uh it will probably be one of two calls um it was a lady who started the call she said uh Ken I think I'm going to be a unique call for you today and I was kind of like well all right let's see we're thousands of calls in you know everybody's kind of similar just slightly different details and she said I said okay shoot she goes I make $350,000 and I'm miserable and I laughed and I said tell me what do you do she goes I'm in pharmaceutical sales and I'm really good she had a lot of personality and I was loving this lady you know and I said okay so why are you so miserable cuz you got margin you're crushing it she goes I don't like the work Ken and she's chuckling and I knew where this was going and I'm just letting her and fast forward um uh she said I'm just so confused I know it's not this pharmaceutical sales but I don't know what it is and I Ed three questions that I use with everybody who sits and presents that problem I said all right shut your brain off and answer the following three questions with your heart don't think answer she said okay I said who are the people you want to help she said women I said great tell me the problem that these women have or the desire that they have she said they're not physically healthy they're stressed out you know she went on to describe some things and I said what is the solution to that problem that you just described that you could get most excited about and she said I think coaching and guiding women to uh get their nutrition and their exercise uh in a very healthy place and it will change their physical body and when they change their physical body and she began to get emotional I could hear just a little bit of emotion and she finish the sentence she said when they get their physical body in order I think that they're going to get their emotional and mental life in order and I could hear it and I just went right to it and I just said is that deeply personal to you and I knew the answer and she began to cry yes yes and I said tell me about it she said I changed my life six months ago I said what what did you do she said I've lost 150 lbs and she just broke and so that's probably the most memorable call because it was fun to take that construct of those three questions that I've learned over time I didn't come into this gig knowing those questions but after coaching thousands of people on the air you kind of start to see patterns and it was such a beautiful thing to see a woman present as completely confused and finish the call completely confident and so I think that's the answer to the first part of that question I I have summed it up um to every caller is calling and they're looking for confidence because I represent a coach and so whatever you're coaching people on if you're in the coaching business or want to get in the coaching business little little little hack here understand that a great coach an effective coach doesn't just tell someone or show someone how to do what they need to do they Empower them to do it in other words they give give them this boost of confidence almost like a shot in the arm and they go from seeing to believing I've seen what you've shown me I need to do now I think I can go out there and run that play and I think that's why those calls for me when someone presents is so confused and then has this emotional breakthrough and on the other side of it this this unbelievable confidence that's what I think I'm I'm providing so that people can seize opportunity but before we get into that on a more serious note we spend a bunch of time here on this podcast talking about how you can grow your wealth but a question that is just as crucial is what happens when you're not around to protect it what happens to your family your home your future well you shouldn't wait for the unexpected because with today's sponsor Select Quote you can secure your family's Financial Future No Matter What tomorrow brings Select Quote is one of America's leading Insurance Brokers with nearly 40 years of experience helping over 2 million customers find over $700 billion in coverage since 1985 other life insurance brokers offer you impersonal one-size fits-all policies that may cost you more and cover you less while select quotes license 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them suffering but they can't they don't see the fact that they're suffering in their life like how do you help someone that either doesn't want to be helped or just doesn't know that they need help but it's so painfully obvious to you that's a very insightful question it's one of the best questions I've been asking a long time I'm actually glad you asked it because the answer is in your question you help them see their pain in order to get over you s you go how do I help them see their pain show it to them get them to a place where they they are really hurt hurting you see what I'm saying and and helping them see oh this is the source of my pain it's it's the same thing as a as a person who's got a knee injury going to the doctor all you know is your knee hurts right and so what does the doctor do asks lots of questions moves the knee maybe prods touches it all this kind of stuff and what is the doctor trying to do there just find the source of the pen get right to the source oh it's here maybe it's in your MCL right okay now let's let's go scan the MCL and let's see where we're at if it's strained you're going to be okay if it's torn we're going to have to do surgery and so out comes all these Solutions so how you help someone see something that they don't see is taking them deeper to the source of the pain it's so because they're in a place of confusion so they present like really confused got all this kind of going on right same thing we do on the Ramsey Show on money somebody calls in and they're going I got 150,000 in debt and I feeling okay we already know no we got to get to what is causing all of this stuff that is making you make decisions to put yourself behind the eightball we got to get there because Behavior change doesn't happen until we see clearly and so the answer to your question is you got to take them deeper into the source of the pain then they go oh okay now I can see clearly I'm feeling this way I'm acting this way because of this it's just like therapy you know anytime you go to a good therapist they're trying to take you deeper deeper deeper deeper so you can see why you're in pain does that make sense what are some of the traits that you notice with people who you don't think are going to succeed where they call in and you could just tell the convictions not there are there any similar any similarities on yes it's the opposite to that confidence they are so consumed with self-doubt or so consumed with fear or so consumed with pride I think it's those three things and sometimes they all work together quick definition fear is um I'm worried or anxious that something bad is going to happen if I move forward if I take a step forward a positive step um doubt is I don't believe something good is going to happen if I take this step and then pride is I care more about what other people think or say about me than what I believe that I should do right we get this gut feeling I should do this I should do this I should do this and it's quickly overridden by what's my mom going to say what's my dad going to say what's my spouse going to say what are my friends going to say that's a real struggle so fear doubt and pride are those three commonalities that I see and when I'm coaching someone and and I can feel it and I can hear it that they're not going to get Beyond those things I I I absolutely leave that call going they're not going to do anything yeah not today okay now right after this uh you mentioned that you have to prepare yourself for people who are calling in and really worried about the election results and that they're they're you know having to wrap their mind around result that they didn't want yeah what are your predictions for a trump economy going forward well it's interesting I think you're going to see pockets of the economy that will jump start but I'm friends with a lot of wealthy guys that are investors and that are in companies where and I think one of the things I'm hearing from them uh they believe that you're going to see a uh uh a a spike in investment dollars as it relates to you're going to see some companies that maybe weren't ready to sell now they're going to sell you know you're going to see more investment big business investment in the economy people kind of going all right I feel better I'm going to you know start buying some things that maybe I was on the sideline for that kind of thing I think you'll see that but there's a part of me Graham and Jack that this is you asked me for a prediction so I don't mind being wrong fine there's a part of me that wonders if we don't see a dip in the economy um um at first M um I wouldn't be surprised because we've been talking about this soft Landing this whole time and it appears as though where we're seeing inflation right now has cooled unemployment's at 4.1% that's again historically really really low uh so it appears as though we've had a soft Landing um but uh I still believe that commercial real estate's going to blow up in a bad way I just think everybody that's smart in that space that I'm watching they're saying that crisis is coming coming has nothing to do with who's who's in the white house so there might be some interesting things um housing is still a mess and needs to be figured out in the sense of affordability so you might see some negative things in the economy and I think you might see some positive things my guess is he will usher in a lot of confidence but there might be a dip before it comes back out sure I think with that too there's been a lot of talk about social security and raising the retirement age and I found it very interesting I really enjoyed your take on Ben Shapiro's thoughts on not retiring and why it's a bad idea and you mentioned that one in five retirees ends up getting depressed yeah what are your thoughts on not retiring yeah um I think it's overrated I think it's bad for your health physically and mentally that's the data it's not my opinion what I would say is I'm okay with you downshifting so if retirement means I'm going to I'm going to step away from this full-time career that I've been doing for a long time and I'm going to change my lifestyle um but I'm going to stay active in some type of volunteerism excuse me guys this is what happens when you smoke cigars till 3: in the morning if it means that I'm now contributing to society in a different way but it still looks like work not from the have to but the want to which is what I preach so I'm getting up and I'm using my talent what I do best to do something that I enjoy that's passion to then produce a result that I care deeply about that's a sense of mission so use what I do best to do what I enjoy to produce the result That Matters to be let's just shift let's shift our time and our resources to that sentence in a different season of life and that's the point I was making where I took a little bit you know of an issue with what he said you know it's like that's not the human dream to just get to a stage in your life my gosh the 70s you've worked your butt off you've done a great job you've got a lot of freedom um you know I've read from some some really interesting people that the 70s could be your best decade if if health is okay and and so I think it's the equivalent of who's the first guy to scale Mount Everest my brain is is tired this morning but he gets to the top of Mount Everest first person ever he's with his sherp climbing partner it's recorded his his Sherpa partner told the media later that they put a few momentos down can you imagine first people ever top of the world and they're looking around and he goes points to another mountain range looks at his sherp of climbing partner he goes that's the one we do next that's what I think retirement should be slow down if you want to downshift whatever great but this idea of what work really is which I Define work is a positive contribution to your ZIP code it's that simple yeah so what I find interesting is that social security retirement is one of the most controversial issues in terms of like the older generation like younger generation is more social issues as you get older it's just Social Security and retirement when Ben made the claim that you should not retire he got lit up honestly unlike anything I've ever seen Ben get lit up before and he said some controversial things what I'm curious is Can you steal man the argument where maybe retirement is good when I Envision my future if I'm trying to put myself in in the shoes of somebody who who doesn't want to retire that or who who does want to retire um I like to think okay well I can play golf I can go and I I can play pickle ball I can live on a a farm with my family and just kind of hang out go see my friends and practice my hobbies and that sounds amazing from the years of 65 or 70 to the rest of my life do you think that that could still be a fulfilling life is there any Merit to retirement if you're steelmanning the argument I think that that can be a nice life but I don't think it's meaningful I really would take issue with anybody on that and I love Ben I think that what he was missing here and and I think what we're missing is we were made to work I just believe that I just believe it it goes back to the very core of our spirit whether you're a person of Faith or spiritual and atheist it doesn't matter CU I don't think you can deny this you don't have to teach a human to lay in in bed at night or be behind the wheel of a car or in a shower or walking along and your mind goes to what am I supposed to do with my life every human that's ever been on the planet and that will come on this planet will one day wonder that question that's fascinating to me so to me that speaks to meaning now I derive great meaning from work and I think that work is not all that we are but it is something that we are wired to do if I say work just means contribute my talent to create a positive result that could be as Martin Luther King Jr so famously said to middle school students if it falls your lot to be a a street sweeper sweep streets so that all the hosts of Heaven look down and say and I'm paraphrasing there was there is the Michelangelo of street sweepers you know he was getting to something there right that there is good that can be done and should be done and must be done and I think if you look at that way it goes okay I love the way you set the question up but like do all those things I love pickle ball by the way I'll just answer it very personally my goal in my 70s and 80s is to wake up and uh start off with some exercise in the gym I I'm very religious about that and uh then I see myself uh sitting with a bunch of old cranky dudes or maybe couples with my wife wife cuz we love spending time together and other couples and uh there's a nice breakfast or something along those lines and we're laughing talking talking about kids grandkids whatever socializing and then there's some type of pickle ball I'm obsessed with pickle ball uh obsessed I will play I will play tonight for three hours if you were in town I would welcome you we have a great group of guys anytime you're in Wednesday night I'll bring my P shes the whole next time you're welcome it's a great group of guys about 30 of us we play for 3 hours oh my gosh 7 to 10 3 hours oh man I'm exhausted but I'm so f because it's competition and Community if you guys play pickle ball give the video a like pop a subscribe in fact if you're in Las Vegas and you're a good pickle ball player want DM I want to play pickle ball and next time I'm in Vegas I'm texting you and if you got time I'm in okay deal I'm in love with the game it's phen is so uned in he hates he hates talk about all the time any sports any sort of ath we apologize to all the listeners and viewers who are sick of the pickle ball evangelist just try it you'll it just try it um and then after that um or whatever that day looks like it's going to have the working out the community and food eating together there will be the hobby that physical kind of sports hobby uh but then I will have to do something MH and maybe that looks like me mentoring a bunch of 20-year-old dudes three days a week I consider that work so when I say that it's like you can downshift and I'm not saying you got to work a 40-h hour week but this idea of retiring if you actually look up the word it's to retreat I don't want to retreat in my old age in a treat So speaking of work like that are we in a white collar recession saw your video on that I found it very interesting according to the data yes well what's happened is um we came out of the the great resignation right which is where we saw for about 2 and a half three years record numbers of people leaving their jobs it was over 4 million a month it was absurd it's it's when you saw out of the pandemic really out of 2020 2021 we just saw this okay everybody's like okay I don't think the world's coming to an end not sure where we're working or how we're working but companies began to reinvest we saw a lot they saw the government put a lot of money into the marketplace and so company started hiring and it was like all right I'm going to pay you more to come over here and that created the musical chairs and so that took up salaries and hourly wages and so it was the great resignation because what it really was was was the great hiring it was like companies were competing big time for talent and so everybody was cashing in people were leaving for 15 to 20% hikes who was an unbelievable Economic Development well so that slows down and so out of that comes this white collar recession so leading into this election so if you go back two years companies begin to go all right we're not sure where this is going the economy was beginning to show some ugly signs is Biden going to get reelected you know and you start and so what companies do is they start going all right we're going to kind of let's going to slow down we're going to slow down and um we're not going to invest in more Talent so what they're doing is they're mitigating risk and that's what happened because when you say white collar recession I should Define it these are these are professional roles and these are six figure everything from low to mid six figure and I saw this in my own personal life with a couple guys that left during covid they were laid off from large biotech companies and were out of work for two years and here's why they were making in the $800 $900,000 a year well for a company they're going to go that's we're taking on a lot of you know they look at payroll and that's what big public companies do they start to look at payroll and they go okay we're going to uh uh reduce expenses kind of the advice we'd give people at Ramsey when your when your money life is tight all right let's reduce expenses let's see if we can get more income so that's what's been happening that's going to be interesting to see if that loosens up because we saw even the latest job numbers that hiring is still really slow right now so that's going to be a key to watch in the first two quarters of the Trump Administration will there be professional uh uh uh let's call it uh will there be corporate confidence we always talk about consumer confidence will there be corporate confidence where companies start to go all right we're going to start hiring that's a risk that's an investment but we're willing to make it so that's why we are where we are I think there's been a wait and see um as a result of this weird economy that that we've been in the last couple years yeah I do worry though that with some of that economy that if companies get used to being able to get the same amount of work done with less people as they're hiring less but all of a sudden now they get this injection of money if tax rates go down let's say they have an extra 10% on the books are they actually going to hire people with that or they going to say well now we have an extra 10% on the books Let's boost the stock price we'll you know pay out our CEOs a little bit more I tend to believe that's more likely to happen than oh we have 10 million let's hire more people again yeah um I think it's an interesting point I don't disagree with you but I would offer this companies love to expand yeah companies love to grow and um CEOs can't help themselves um you know because they're that's what their performance is measured on so I I get the bonus piece but keep in mind that you know we got boards and stockholders and and so if you aren't growing you are dying is not just a motivational thing that's thrown out too much it's it's actually a business Maxim it's hyper competitive up hyper so I see what you're saying if that were to happen Graham I think that would be minimal and situational but I think at some point companies go we got to grow and when they got to grow they got a hire Talent yeah and what about for the people who get fired how are they able to turn that around to a really good thing first thing you got to mourn the data psychology data says that losing your job whether you're laid off or fired so fired is a little bit more uh egregious laid off of a part of a big cut or whatever either way uh losing your job is the equivalent of losing a loved one emotionally it's pretty Stark so let's start there so we need to grief so mourn this if that's with a therapist fantastic highly recommend it if it's just sitting in your feelings and honestly going man I'm going home today and I'm I'm just going to mourn I'm going to put my sweatpants on I'm going to eat a lot of ice cream watch a lot of Netflix whatever morning looks like let's mourn it let's own that this sucks second this isn't a in a couple days you know um I would surround myself with Community I would make sure that I'm around uh friends and loved ones that are lifters not friends and loved ones who are victims back to the start of our conversation very important after losing a job that you're spending time with people that are naturally people who lift you they're not going to let you wallow now they're going to feel for you but they're going to be injecting you with hey Ken it's okay you're so talented you're going to have a ton of opportunities man this isn't going to hold you you need those people in your life not the aunt and uncle like well welcome to the reality and they just keep you down um third I would um make sure you go do something for somebody whose life is way worse than yours that's what I would do uh go serve go help find yourself in a situation where you go man my life sucks right now but man it could be a whole lot worse and uh and I'm I'm going to help somebody who has it way worse than me that begins to lift you four I would begin to tell the whole world hey this what happened to me I need help I need connections I need some opportunities uh I'm willing to look and listen to anything uh um those would be the four things from a practical thing to turn a loss like that losing your job into something that you rebound from those are the practical things that will allow you to rebound because on the other side of those four things you're going to get another opportunity you step in and you go okay I realize that I Rose From the Ashes here I'm going to now be able to reflect that would be the fifth thing after you kind of get reset into another job reflect on it is there something that I can learn from this could I have seen this layoff coming what what can I learn from getting fired even if I say I did nothing wrong could I have seen that this is an unhealthy boss and this was a not so good situation and my own fear of of leaving and going to something else kept me in a really toxic situation the idea is we want to walk away from this and learn from it and and and we you know we we're going to be better from it so we look back on it we go I can look back on that point in my life and I can can rub my hand over the scar I got a scar right here where I made a bonehead mistake and I can rub on that right now and it takes me back and remember but I can't feel it because I've healed from it and I think that's the key but you know what before we go into that let me ask you a question how often do you have the time just to focus in yourself think about it between work family and everything else it's easy to put your goals in the back burner and that's why I think it's important to talk about today's sponsor strawberry. me strawberry. me is a platform that makes personal coaching simple and accessible no matter where you are on your journey you'll have a certified coach in your corner not someone to tell you what to do but will help you figure out what to do and then how to get there coaching offers something that no book podcast or conversation with a friend can and that's a professional partner who's 100% focused on you imagine sitting down with someone who listens deeply reflects back 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own life cuz I noticed this like this optimistic undertone to everything that you say whether it's like surround yourself with the right people if you get laid off you need them more and this and that what would you say is a time where you felt like you had risen From the Ashes or had some sort of negative thing and like practice some sort of thing to get through to it that's contributed through this philosophy uh it was early on in this journey to broadcasting I was 32 33 really old to try to get into broadcasting I had three little kids and uh I had found a season of life where I had some gumption and I said I'm going to try some things so I went down town Atlanta I was Liv in Atlanta suburbs I go down and I I walk in one day to this huge office building and I go up to this reception this young girl in her 20s and I said is uh I'll make this name up um is is um is Don so and so in today and she looked at me she goes yeah he is do you have an appointment I go no but we have some mutual friends and I just if he's got 2 minutes you can put me on a clock tell him I just want to say hi to him for two minutes and it so kind of befuddled her that I talked my way in and she goes okay so next thing oh this guy pops into the lobby and he goes he's looking at me literally like that and I go hey Ken Coleman I know this person this person this hey I want to tell you something I own my own business uh I don't want you to pay me anything I'm not even looking for a job first thing out of my mouth and he's kind of looking at me and I go I'm wondering if there's something that I can do a few days a week for a couple hours at a time to just volunteer because I just want to learn this business and that's all I want I can give you my resume references we have these mutual friends he looked at me he was like are you serious and I go yeah he goes yeah man sure he's like um give me your email I'll email you a time we can come meet and we'll talk through it so fast forward I do do that and I end up going in three days a week Monday Wednesday Friday the ESPN Radio affiliate that's what this was I love sports and I start volunteering I'm answering screening calls I'm doing YouTube research for the guys that are on the air I'm just in the building you know and it led to me getting on the air they were sending me to Falcons training camp to the SEC basketball championship here in Nashville and I was doing live call-ins and these guys they just they just began to like me and they knew that I was just trying to learn and get into the game and I didn't need anything from them and U so like you're pretty good on the air and so they put me on so one day I get back in it was my day to be in I think it was a Wednesday and this guy this program director is the guy that I met in the lobby and he calls me in his office and he had this weird look on his face and he just looked at me he goes hey you got to stop and there's no tension nothing's happened I go what do you mean he goes you got to stop you're you're not you're not going to be on the air anymore I go oh okay I said hey by the way I am sorry your host put me on the they just asked me if if I do it I said he goes no no I know you've not done anything wrong I've already talked to them they shouldn't have done that we have a company policy no um non-employees are allowed to be on the air which again made total sense to me but it was the way in which he talked to me and he said this he goes I don't know why you keep coming in he goes you've been great you're a good guy you got a lot going for you I don't know why you're not focused on your business you don't have the talent to make it in a number eight Market and it just devastated me so I walk out and I'm spinning emotionally spinning why is he doing this I what okay I get the policy but why did he say that is he right am I delusional am I wasting my time three days a week coming here what am I doing I'm 33 I don't have a broadcasting degree I don't have any experience what am I doing and I began to just just really go inward like dude you're delusional wake up smell the coffee and go be a good husband and a dad and grow your business and go another Direction This is a Fool's errand this is where I'm at so I go home and uh I really didn't want my wife to see it I was so embarrassed I was ashamed and um so it was time to cut the grass and I remember going to my garage get my lawnmower out and uh I went out and I just zoned out back and forth Just self-pity and about 10 minutes in the the thought hit me do you think that you have the talent do you really think you have it are you willing to see if he's right are you willing to see is he right or is he wrong are you willing to figure it out and uh for whatever reason I summoned a little bit of Courage there and I was like okay and and uh came up with a few ideas and I don't want to go into it for sake of too long of an answer but I came up with a couple ideas on the rest of that lawnmowing session that ended up turning into my first book and uh pretty successful podcast that then got me on the air in North Atlanta that led to some amazing things and Dave Ramsey eventually calling me so the reason I am the way I am is moments like that where I had to choose right do I believe in me and am I willing to prove it and it's not that I was super positive and that I was this because I wasn't I was miserable I was insecure all these things but I did choose in that moment to prove it so I was either going to prove that he was right that I didn't have the talent or I was going to prove that I was right and I was willing to deal with that and get to that answer so that when I'm an old man I don't live with regret did you ever see that guy again never have have you been curious to reach out to him yeah okay I'm gonna be very vulnerable yeah um there have been multiple times um that I've wanted to call him and in my mind I've got it that I would be classy but I would say hey just want to let you know that what you said hurt me you were wrong and I'm calling to tell you that you're wrong not out of spite but that you don't ever crap on somebody else like that again cuz words matter and uh that's what I want to do and I have resisted it and the first time is when uh I found out that I was going to be the first person to ever sit in Dave Ramsey's chair after 20 some years and I was with Rachel Cruz and another one of our Ramsey personalities at the time and it was like a big deal and I had radio experience they were the money people and so my job was just to get them in out of the break because they had no experience doing it and I could do it but I was still it was a big deal and um yeah there's been multiple times three time best-selling author you know but what's holding you back um I don't think that's right I don't think it's necessary I I have gotten to a place through therapy and some maturity that nothing good comes from that phone call and no matter how classy I I play it out of my mind I think it's an act of Pride why don't send an email that you Pro I I tend to think that sending that you could look at it two what do you think it accomplishes and I mean this from a utilitarian perspective love yeah I I think it does make sense for him to get the perspective that hey I can actually be incorrect and I shouldn't just shoot someone down with you know a not super convicted argument to make them feel bad but also I think that it depends on how you frame it so for example if you call them and you're like I was right and if I was right what does that mean you were it means you were wrong like you know there's a way that you can there he loves that he loves that but it basically is just establishing a winner and a loser it doesn't need to be that way you could say hey look after our our phone call you motivated me to actually go and try my own thing and I did and it worked so I wanted to thank you because think about it you are where you are today because of that so even though to take that even though it hurt and it sucked and it created some wounds that turned into scars eventually it ended up working in your favor by a lot who knows what would have happened if you stuck with that network no one has Anya think that that would help me with other wounds cuz I I'm going to be really vulnerable here cuz this is actually refreshing that you're challenging me on this maybe the audience learned something I'm real timing this folks these guys are challenging me I I deal with the voice we all have these voices that we deal with and that these come from you know Primal wounds and things of that nature mine is I'm not good enough just being honest yeah so that comes and I don't want to you know get into this son of psychotherapy session but it comes from real things that have happened to me in my life and I and I am actively right now in therapy um I do it seasonally from time to time and I just think this is a very interesting timing so I'm asking you guys knowing what I just told you m do you think that would actually be healing for me to send it I like your approach Jack do you think that that would be a sense of healing if I were to word it that way to go I'm acknowledging that you hurt me deeply and yet I also want to thank you and release that because i' I don't think I've ever released it I think it's a chip still on my shoulder I think the solution or the answer to the feeling of not being good enough or some sort of impostor syndrome is humil is understanding that like you are you know you deserve nothing you know it's just you have to accept the fact that you put yourself wherever you are and I think that the humility will essentially solve that you can thank him and it's also kind of in a sense taking responsibility because you ended up making the decision to put you where you are today yeah I don't know that's I think you gave you a great lesson great experience that you're able to share with so many people and you owe that him and him saying those really hurtful words so I think in a way it's a blessing in disguise where back then like you so much be I would send the email um or if you take it a step further send the email and say I'd also like to take you for a coffee or something like that to take him out and show your appreciation in hindsight and I bet through that experience he'll change a lot too interesting wow this been a long time since that happened so he could be a completely different person you know true yeah yeah yeah but I but you understand my concern is I don't want to be prideful and and you answered that's the humility I'm I want to act in a humble way here but but imagine this imagine he shares his perspective years later and it's not what you what you that's interesting where he said I'm sorry I said those things the reason why was because I got pressure had a bad morning you know like isn't that true it could be it could be something so stupid of like yeah oh you know got in a fight with a spouse this morning I was in a really bad mood I you know as soon as you walked out I regretted it but I I was too prideful to say anything and uh you know something you have no idea what's going on through his mind at that day yeah that's well said or where pressure was coming from from like someone else got jealous that you did a better job than them and he had to save this person who was g giving him an earful and you weren't the employee and there could have been so many dynamics that you just had no idea about that I bet now he would share and if you do reach out to him I'd love to to hear about a followup I'm going to do it I'm going to commit to it good and I'm going to if you if because I trust you guys on this I'm going to send you if you'll allow me I want to send you the draft deal yeah because we've talked about it yeah and you're both of you are completely objective that you're perfect like I wouldn't want my wife to read it she's got too much invested in me uh so I will do that I'm going to send you a draft within a week of this conversation I'm trying to give myself a little time but I need to act on it quickly actually within 72 hours team's back there somebody hold me accountable I'm going to send an email to both of you if you allow me absolutely and I want your honest feedback and uh I'm going to send it I'm honored boy wow this is crazy I was supposed to do this selfishly I think for that that's so cool but I hope our audience gets something from this because I think I love that you challenged me on that and I I'm learning real time um now it's interesting now I'm and I'm an evangelist for therapy because I'm literally doing weekly therapy right now and Di on this stuff at 50 years of age not cuz I'm in crisis I'm not in an area of Crisis right now in my life but um I'm I'm seeking to be better you know what I mean because there's a lot of responsibility and and going through different seasons of my life right and dealing with grief of my my oldest son being in college right and some of that stuff and just being okay with that like it's hard to see my boy go I'm proud of him he's crushing it you know yeah so all that to say this is the example of spending time with now this is a professional podcast however I'm grateful and blessed to be in the orb that I'm in that I get to be on your show have this conversation and this is the whole point you know I actually did something similar with the guy who hired me when I was 18 uh when I was doing data entry and he gave me an earful when I wanted to quit I came in like a week later and told him that I wasn't happy doing this it didn't feel right for me and I wanted to quit and he gave me an earful and he told me the story that there were like he mentored another guy and this guy was like in his late 40s early 50s at the time and he like mentored another guy and this guy said the same thing that he wanted to quit that it wasn't right and the guy's like you have to stick with it because if you're not a able to overcome this hurdle you're going to go sideways get to another hurdle not be able to overcome that get to the other hurdle and you're going to be moving sideways throughout your life and it's really important when you get to a hurdle to overcome it and so he talked me into staying into this job and he said by the way at the end of that conversation he's like by the way the other guy ended up quitting guess what he ended up getting a divorce he ended up coming back to me years later trying to get his job back we couldn't hire him back I don't know where he is now but I'm like I don't want to be broke and get a divorce later so I stayed there uh and every time I'd go into quit which was like every 3 weeks just to talk to him would give me that same sort of Spiel and I think it was after about two months I finally like had enough I wrote up a letter I gave it to him he tried to talk to me I I couldn't do it cuz I knew he could talk me back into it but sent him uh I found him on LinkedIn this is maybe like two years ago I found him on LinkedIn I didn't tell him how much that impacted me about his whole speech and whatnot but I did thank him for the opportunity and just giving me that chance like changed my life of of really figuring out what I didn't want in a job which is like a desk job data entry fluorescent lights back Office Accounting like I hated it but if it were not for that experience I wouldn't be here today agree so I just thanked him for that and he got back to me and it was like I see you on YouTube I'm glad you're doing so well that makes me really happy to hear so maybe I tell him how much it affected me but uh just sending him that thank you was really important no I think it's cool to find him years later I while you were talking I want the audience to hear I I just got a little takeaway grit is earned not summoned and and thankfully we have people in our life that Force us into places where we have to choose and so it's back to your question oh are you positive I'm not the most positive guy on the planet but I do think I'm really gritty and it's because I've had multiple opportunities to either as your boss told you there that guy told you there to either jump through it go through the hurdle go over the hurdle go over the mountain whatever that's important stuff because on the other side of that you start stacking grit do you know what I mean you can't just summon grit the only way to get grit is to earn it in other words choose to walk forward you walked forward the other guy went sideways and walked away I think that's a profound story of of one decision yeah and I love that I like the idea of being forced into a position where you're where you're where you have to choose that's actually exactly the same both you guys as when I was working in the restaurant I was a buser I really wanted to be a waiter the waiters earned a lot more than the busers I took the waiting exam several times failed every single time but at the same time I thought the management had something against me cuz they were passing other people that I was clearly more qualified if then to be waiters and then finally after you know I guess being in despair because I was this like lowly Buster not making a good living I I was like I feel like I should do so much more than this I tried out e-commerce I failed I tried out trading I failed I tried out a different business I failed and then eventually I emailed Graham and it worked and it was because I was forced to make a decision because I was so dissatisfied with where I was in life whereas if maybe they had just promoted me to being a server I would have gotten a little bit more complacent I mean I was a full-time student at the same time as working a good amount of hours in the restaurant so maybe I would have been okay you know I'll just go to the college I I'll do the normal route but it forced me to make a decision and to finally continue trying things until one of the things worked out love I love that hard times Force us to choose you going to do hard things or you going to do the easy thing see the easy thing is to retreat that's easy walk away I'm g go over here and by the way we can really talk ourselves into how smart that is you can really spin that up well I did it for this and this and and at some point um I think you just have to choose to do hard things and that's where grit comes from by the way that's where opportunity lies and I think that that's one of the things I'm fearful for for my kids generation is we've screwed up I'm talking about my my generation and parenting um because I grew up in the 80s and I do see a shift I'm not trying to sound like a boomer and take us another Direction but I would say really quickly that we have removed heart hardship and the opportunity to step into fear and that's a dangerous thing for a society hard things lead to great things why do you think it's going in that direction because there does seem to be this element that Millennials and gen Z are very anti-work anti- difficulty why is that have you noticed anything with this yes I think that two things fear and find es quick breakdown one it's when I was growing up if my parents were sitting here they're in their 70s they would tell you both that the type of commercials that were on TV they weren't fear-driven it wasn't like hey you know you could sit and watch a football game this weekend and you're going to hear a a scad of commercials come at you and they start something like this are you experiencing tightness in your chest and you might not be but if they ask you you start going well you that's we marketers have figured out like I I I literally put this on the on the on the uh back of marketers they figured it out they figured it out scare the crap out of us we buy stuff uh you know what I mean there weren't bike helmets when we were kids it doesn't mean that parents of my generation my parents were meaner parents she didn't think about a bike helmet for heaven sakes my mom told me the other day when I was a baby she held me in her arms in the front seat now I'm not saying that car seats aren't necessary I'm getting to a bigger Point fear through marketing and and then 24-hour news think about how the world has changed with news right social media it's all designed to freak us out and that's what gets our attention and so that has just progressed from the news media to marketers that's the fear of Peace So parents go I'm afraid and natural for your parent you want to uh remove opportunities for your kids to be hurt in some ways that's the fear the finances piece is you know look man if you just look at the the wealth growth in in America alone and you look at parents and they're always trying to help their kids do better than they did and then their parents did and so you start to go okay and so what they're trying to do is want to get him the best grade to best college and so they start emailing the teacher in the fourth grade you s at C minus home with my kid what did you do wrong that's coming from a place of fear you talk to a teacher in America today they'll tell you the the hovering parents are the number one reason why they're leaving the profession where does that come from got to help them got to help them gotta get they got to keep up with everybody else got to get a good gota to make more money and all these things and so what's happened is we've removed the very element that makes our kids successful and that is failure hardship so the way I say it and a sound bite is American parents have stopped paying attention to doing things that make our kids good because we're so focused on what makes our kids feel good so it's like stop worrying about how how good they feel start paying attention to how good they're doing and the only way your kid's going to do better is is failing I remember sitting with Malcolm Gladwell once years ago I said what's the one thing you tell parents he said get your kid in a in a in an extracurricular activity where they will only be measured by success or failure it's like play an instrument in the band play a sport try out for the drama team where you may not get the lead role and what he was getting at is the quicker we can get people to taste failure and digest failure then the tougher the more resilient they become and so what I think we've done is we've just removed all of the Challenge from life because of Technology we kind of can you know yeah so what do you do with the people who just are lazy and they don't want to help themselves yeah and they're there I love this question yeah if you are a person right now that has a person in your life that you just thought of when Graham threw that out I want to challenge you they are not lazy they're lost lazy is a symptom the source of the laziness is they're lost let me put it another way the person that presents is lazy the young man maybe your husband ladies I've gotten this call before they're not lazy they're lost in other words if you look at the science behind um of why we procrastinate a large portion of procrastination is depression and I can't think of a more debilitating emotional state than feeling lost I remember as a kid going to an apartment store with my mom and dad once one of my earliest memories and you know those circular things where clothes are all around the rack and picture being a little guy you know and I remember oh this is fun and I jumped in the little clothes rack like oh I'm hiding from my dad you know and uh thought this is kind of fun and then I was like oh he's not looking for me I better pop out I popped out my dad's nowhere to be seen now when you're five or six and you can't even see over the clothes rack and you're just staring at you can imagine the fear and panic that came over me and I began to cry and y for my dad's name okay um I'm trying to take us to that emotion because that's a very real emotion for let's take a young man um or or a married man it's got a family and all of a sudden he realizes I I don't know where I'm supposed to go I don't love my job or I've just been laid off and I feel like that little kid who's just staring at all these clothes racks and while I'm looking for my parent that person is looking for clear Direction in their life okay when you are confronted with that you just immediately feel helpless it's the equivalent of being in a car and you're driving along and a thunderstorm comes up and the rain comes down so hard you can't see past the hood of the car what do you do you immediately stop pull over the side of the road it's like I I can't see past the hood of the car this is scary this is dangerous stop and it is a very real emotion okay so if you take that and you realize that day in and day out you have no clarity for the direction of your life or a Clarity of how to solve a problem in your life you will naturally press the emergency break and then when you're confronted with no way out you you panic and then after prolonged Panic guess what happens helplessness I I'm stuck I'm I'm I no longer I'm panicked because my body is adjusted to the original fear now I'm just in prison and I think that's what's going on emotionally is they appear lazy well of course they look lazy they have no gumption they have no direction and so what do they do they just stay put and I think it's a depressive state so the answer then is Clarity you got to get to that person and you've got to get to them where they cannot take themselves and that is they almost need to see a mirror and they need to see and it's my methodology I'd start with hey you're really talented your whole life everybody said this about you and we've seen it and you have something to offer you're really really talented and and and boy you light up when you do this it's passion and this and and and and and what what what problems do you want to solve like what would you you know and you just become that that almost coach that goes hey you got this get back in the game I believe you can make the play and that's all you can do as a friend or loved one now in a coach situation I mean we're going to do some serious heart surgery and I'm going to dive in and we're going to go okay um once you SE Clarity then confidence takes care of itself Clarity leads to confidence confidence leads to courage every time when you see a person step into a fiery car we've all seen a media report on someone who saved a stranger and that the person says to him Graham what what were you thinking and and Graham goes well I really wasn't thinking I just acted exactly what happened you come up on a scene of a fiery car crash you're the first one instant radical Clarity someone's going to die if we don't get them out immediately confidence follows I think I can pull them out and before you know it you're in the car pulling them out Bam Bam Bam Clarity leads to confidence confidence leads to courage you cannot summon courage in your life to do hard things absence of clarity so we always want to retreat to Clarity the most confused person is a depressed person is a lazy person so we want to get unlost and the way we get unlost is Clarity the minute that lady heard me in that department store hey buddy what's wrong where's my dad okay I got you she takes me by the hand she takes me to her little register area she pulls out her phone which is an intercom with the parents of little Kenny Coleman please come over to the men section he's okay he's here Clarity confidence mom and dad are on the way right and I I just that that's what I think has to happen it is an emotional situation that is absolutely creating paralyzed State and so to get unparalyzed we got to get clear although really quick before we go into that for those that are unaware I got a coffee company it's called bankroll coffee and our 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thank you again to Shopify for sponsoring this episode and now let's get back to the podcast how would you recommend people try to find more meaning and purpose in their job if it's a W2 job if you're self-employed if you're running a business I'll admit sometimes I feel like my job doesn't have as much purpose as I would like it to and that may sound weird to some people I don't know because I like to think that I have some form of influence or I provide video that has some sort of positive influence on people when I do find meaning it's when when people like for example last night actually we were at this watch party and someone came up to to gram and I and they're like hey I saw the podcast you did with Jordan Peterson that actually I watched it with my girlfriend and it solved a lot of our relational issues and I was like okay wow and and when I hear stuff like that it makes me feel more purpose more meaning and it drives me to continue working harder but maybe for other jobs where it's a little bit more difficult to find that how would you recommend they go about that love the question first gratitude so start with what am I grateful for that this job provides me all right so we can start with income provision takes care of me so this is what it does for me now it's a W2 job not where I want to be but I start with gratitude for what it's doing for me now then we begin to say what is this job doing for me later in other words it's giving me that stability that I just said I'm grateful for and so it's positioning me so we begin to to really reimagine how we see this current job that's not the rung of the ladder we want to be on but it allows me the opportunity to cl to climb the next several rungs and so we start there that's going to really shift things to go okay great uh I probably would have been very grateful six months ago for this gig or six years ago okay I'm I'm grateful because this is giving me a platform for a stability and then opportunity going forward that changes our mindset but then we get right back to what you were talking about I think you have to sit there and you go how is my work helping a human today I think it's that simple that question now it doesn't mean that it's going to be as rewarding as that person saying that to you last night that's one of the awesome benefits we get from the work we do is people say things that are incorrect like you changed my life no we didn't you changed your life I had a little coaching moment thank you and that's really rewarding okay but for those of you that are in W2 jobs where you're not getting that feedback from a real person who is so overwhelmed and that was such a beautiful testimony to what you do but what you've got to do is go okay if I were going to talk to people today who benefit from my work what would they say on a base level that I did for them today so if I'm a programmer and I'm programming a I'm programming code for an app that does this for people remind yourself of that on a daily basis maybe type it up maybe put it on your desk you know you know have it on your phone you can look at every once in a while reflect on there are humans on the other end of this work that I will not get to hear from but I know that what this is doing is making their life better in this way this way in this way and that's really important to remind yourself of your why when you aren't getting that personto person Accolade from that end user that's what I would do and I think that's really really important and it's a very important question because a lot of people sit there and go I did this today I did this today I did this today and it's really great on my weekly report and I felt very efficient but does my work matter that's a very very scary place to be in because if you keep asking the question does my work matter it's only a matter of time before you start to go do I matter what do you think is one of the biggest problems facing young people today self-awareness there's this unbelievable faux self-awareness that comes from social media in the form of likes and followers and how people reacted to this post and this post and this post when what is a superpower for any individual but certainly for young people because they're in this season of life where their brain is still developing their frontal lobe is still developing you know it's late 20s for men I'm not sure it ever develops at 50 I'll be honest but uh women a little few years earlier so think about that your frontal lobe go do your research go Google that and understand how significant this statement is frontal L is still developing in your in your 20s you got all this pressure from the time you entered High School get good grades so you can get good SAT scores get a good college acceptance get a good degree get a good job it's a lot of pressure and they're navigating that and I don't think as a society we do a good job in our education institutions and in our homes of true focusing on the thing that matters most to a developing young person and that is self-awareness what am I good at doing it comes back to that what am I good at these become the tools that allow you to be successful so we start there forget passion and Mission there's too much focus on passion in our world that's that's an empty part of the equation because I love basketball but I could never be a professional basketball player right so what am I good at okay there's a lot of confidence and and Good Vibes for our self-worth when we can reflect on and then actually do things on a regular basis where it comes easy for us and people go nice work good job you're a natural and so that's that self-awareness play and then what makes what makes what angers my heart what breaks my heart what encourages my heart these are key questions that begin to reveal how you might use that talent and and then as you begin to age and you try things and you experience things you begin to go I remember that result not mattering much to me but man I lit up when I delivered this result and so that self-awareness of and then two other quick things your story and your environment it's really important for young people to look back on the house that they grew up in that shaped the way you see the world they're like glasses shape the way you see the world politically spiritually relationally financially okay physically so you're stewing in this pot that you have no control over your environment growing up let's say birth 18 massive massive impact on you good and bad then look at your story the wins and the losses to keep it simple up to this point in your life anybody who's listening watching and you just kind of feel you know all right I I I I want a young person and you're going I I feel like I'm just uh it's you're not self-aware and it's back to what I just said about Clarity when we can be very self-aware then we are clear on on where we've won in life where we've lost how that shaped us how that is driving us forward self-awareness is a superpower it's where everything good comes from and it's where everything bad comes from a lack of self-awareness a confused life where you're trying to medicate you're seeking pleasure cuz there is no no purpose and then the flip side when you are very very self-aware and you know who you are and who you want to be and why you want to be that man that's that's a Wellspring it's either quicksand or a Wellspring and so I think it's self-awareness and by the way it's not just this generation of young people I could have said that that's like if I could wave a wand Graham and give something to every young person it would be self-awareness I've always thought that uh things are maybe a little too easy for people anded a lot of people intoy where it's not bad want to change but it's not great either so you're not exactly unhappy but you're not really happy and it's that weird Middle Ground where a lot of people get stuck yep the I heard someone say it's like the poorest person today in America is still you know wealthier than the the wealthiest man like a couple hundred or so years ago it's like the fact that you even just have an iPhone it's more powerful than you know anything any billionaire had access to you know 1950 it's a great point because you know complacency is a result of a lack of self-awareness cuz you just kind of go well I can just kind of downshift and put it in neutral and choose an average life and to your point an average life in America is a fabulous life MH and that's where complacency sets in really quickly for the viewers that are trying to expand their knowledge what books would you recommend for them classic book called dig your well before you thirsty written by Harvey McKay I read it when I was 18 it's still true today it's all about understanding that when you need something most in life it's too late to dig the well invest in relationships and connecting in every area of your life and that's where opportunity will always be for you when you need it we're going to do this this is something we've been doing recently I love it it's hypotheticals so we're going to present you with a scenario you tell us how you'd respond this is called the promised position okay you were up for a promotion that you've worked years for but you learned only way to secure it is to publicly support a policy you privately believe is harmful do you voice support to advance your career believing you can make positive changes from within or stay true to your principles and risk losing the opportunity stay true to your principles and risk losing the opportunity snap call Easy very easy for me because on the other side of that the high of getting the promotion the influence and the money will wear off and you will not like yourself and that means you will not like to place you're in and it will end up eating you alive and you'll leave anyway so I choose the hard upfront and then leave next one competitor secret you accidentally come across confidential information about a competitor's upcoming product that could allow your company to beat them to the market with a similar offering using this information could give you a Competitive Edge but it wasn't obtained through legitimate means do you use the information to benefit your business or ignore it to maintain fair play I don't think you could completely ignore it it's kind of like getting that secret email that no one thought you were going to see you can't expunge that um so I don't think you can ignore it but I don't I don't use that I just want to win the right way interesting so both of those questions were kind of abstractions of do the ends justify the means yeah and for both of those answers you said no they do not they do not last question the risky investment your company has an opportunity to invest in an Innovative new technology with potentially huge rewards but the technology is untested and could end in financial loss if it succeeds the company could Thrive and gain an edge over competitors if it fails employees might face layoffs do you take the risk or stick with the safer more proven Investments I'm going to take a mitigated risk on that one I'm going to look at the numbers and make sure that this risk doesn't destroy the company but if it requires that we've got to make some belt tightening decisions I think it's worth a shot there but it is a mitigated risk not a disastrous risk but I take it if you were to say one position one controversial opinion or anything that could hopefully if there's a viewer out here Inspire them to to wake up and do something make something out of their life to change their course entirely what would it be no one is sitting around today thinking about how they can help you if you want to help yourself and change your future you have to take massive responsibility there will be people who will help you along the way but this idea of sitting around and just waiting for someone to tap you on the shoulder or that happen s is going to help you no one is here to help you they're all worried about their own stuff so start acting like that you go after the future that you want you make the difference no one is going to help you until you become helpable by showing up and actually doing something for yourself thank you very much Ken for coming on the show I wish we could talk for an extra hour this is fantastic and also shout out Ramsey solution the crew amazing every single time we come here I mean they're Pros the coffees the front incredible her name is Melissa oh yes at the front Melissa she's amazing she's our she is the first face and voice that people get to see when they come in and she's amazing she has the gift of Melissa love Melissa thank you guys so much for watching we'll link all of Ken stuff down below in the description thank you again Ramsey until next time until next time