This Is WHY You Need To Take Care Of Your SKIN !

You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is mind pump. Today's episode, we have the CEO of Caldera Lab on the podcast. So, Caldera Lab is really innovating in the skin care market. First off, they're one of the top skin care companies for men. I know that was a a place nobody wanted to go. Well, they did and they crushed it. Their their products are natural and they make your skin healthier. So, we wanted him on the show to talk about the history behind this company, why Target Men, why the name, and how does their stuff actually work. So, we know you're going to love this episode. And of course, it's brought to you by Caldera Lab, and if you go through our link, you'll get 20% off. Go to calderab.com/mpump. Use the code mindpump20 to get the 20% off discount. Here comes the show. [snorts] >> Jared, welcome to the show. >> Thank you. Thanks for having me. So, uh, founder, uh, of Caldera Lab, and I've been meaning to ask you this. So, it I feels like you guys have created a like new category of skincare. You went after an audience that I don't think anybody wanted to touch >> in skincare. Like, what gave you the idea? And by the way, you guys are crushing. You do a good good job. So, you obviously you your hunch was right. >> But what made you want to go for skin care for men? Like, how did that all start? >> Yeah. Yeah, it's a great question. So I've never built a physical product before um as a business entrepreneur. I was an entrepreneur um and am entrepreneur uh for most of my career. Um I start off started off in the adtech industry and in down in Southern California couple years out of college and um about 15 years into that had an opportunity to sell a portion of the business and take some time off and that's when my wife and I with a new baby uh started living in Jackson Hole, Wyoming and uh living in that high alpine climate if you ever go to like Tahoe and whatnot your hands start to get really dry and ashy, your skin starts to dry out, your lips all that stuff um started to happen to me and I was, you know, just turning 40, new baby, starting to see the the signs of aging and getting really chafed. All this stuff, the products I had been historically using for men, uh for me that from my 20s and 30s just stopped working entirely and started to make my skin even worse. So very cliche started using some my wife's products and um there was like one or two that just transformed my skin and I was like wow like how this is incredible you know why doesn't this exist for men and that's that's how it all kind of kicked it off from that from that point forward. >> So you're like okay guys need this but also guys don't are not historically don't care about skinare stuff. >> How do we like make them care about >> Yeah. Did you think about that? Were you like, "Well, dudes don't really like how am I going to sell this to guys?" >> You know, interestingly, I started to see a trend, you know, like I mentioned, just turned 40 of my friends starting to use more skincare products, right? Uh, including myself and people in Jackson Hole, guys who are like rugged, you like mountaineers, like hardcore back country skiers and stuff like that, you know? Surprisingly, >> you know, they tell me, "Oh, yeah, I was using this one product." I'm like I'm using the same one you know [laughter] >> interesting >> so so it started clicking it started clicking wait a minute there are there there are men who are using skincare products maybe it's not in mass but I saw the vision at some point there's going to be an inflection point when it does happen where men are going to be more of a consumer in this category that was that was the long-term vision do you think like uh how huge the Jackson Hole move had to be cuz so for me personally, this is before meeting color. I didn't even realize I had that issue until experiencing going to like Reno and Lake Tahoe and living in California near the coast >> and getting a little bit older. Didn't notice it as a kid. For some reason, as I as I got into my late 30s, started to notice like, oh my god, when I go over here, as much as I love going to Tahoe, um just my lips start cracking and my skin gets certain dry and I have psoriasis now and so that flares up. So, had you not made that move, do you think you make that? Do you think you see that? Do you think you even notice the difference in your skin? Were you noticing it even in in California? Not as bad, you know, because uh you know, I was living by the ocean. Yeah. You know, so >> which is nice when have had the nice uh moisture in the air. >> Uh but once I got into that that high elevation, it just amplified things exponentially. It's like being out in the desert in Palm Springs and stuff there. It's dry as well. You know, you dry out quite quickly. And so that that that really took my skin health to a different place that I had never experienced before. And you know, skin is like that. It's like that one, you know, thing that visibly when when when you see someone or they see you. If your skin's not healthy, that's the kind of the first thing that you >> That's right. >> you know, identifies the person looks a little tired or they don't there's something going on there, you know. And so for me, you know, when I started experiencing these things and I was able to solve them with some of the products from for my wife, that inspired us. like why doesn't these types of of of products exist for for men? And the thing was that, you know, there are ingredients that that work better for men's skin because men's skin is 25% thicker. It's two times more oilier and it's and it's and it's managed by testosterone, right? So, you know, there's question of why don't just use women's skinincare, right? Well, that's built for women's skin, right? our skin is different >> and that's what really inspired me to dive in deeper and start learning about how to really build product for a men's skin profile. >> So that first one that you tried that was a woman's product and you already noticed it start to help. How much is your formulation different from that? Because I imagine that was probably the base. You're like, "Okay, there's something here that this is kind of working. How do I improve on that? How how did that process look like? >> Great question. So, what we did is we started to analyze and look at and research all the different activives out there. The activives are the ingredients that actually have uh that make a difference on the skin that actually they're like the supplements, the vitamins for your skin. Okay? And there are are activives that have clinical data and research around male skin, male hair, male endocrinology. And so, we started to zero in and focus on those, right? that have clinical data that actually improve your your skin quality. And that's kind of where the whole journey started to like unlock one door after another that oh wow, you can actually build a whole formula tailored around men's skin. And this hadn't been done from what we researched before. Everything was kind of unisex or is mostly like women's brands or women's formulas that we repurposed for men with different scent profiles. That's what was happening in the men's skincare category at the time. You know, you know, in the in the skincare industry, it's interesting because I think it's a lot like the supplement industry. You can go to these co-manufacturers. You can show up and you're like, "Hey, I'm this new brand. You know, I'm really good at marketing. I want to build a new, you know, supplement or skincare brand, right?" And they're they'll they'll show you a menu. Here's your cleansers. Here's your moisturizers. Here's your other products. >> You just slap your >> You can you can put this scent in here. You like this scent? Okay. Go go go to a branding agency. Come back and select our packaging. We'll put this all in there. You'll be in business in six months. >> Wow. And that exists that existed. >> Isn't that like isn't it like the uh clone and perfume game like the same way too? Isn't a lot of stuff like that? >> I think I think so. I mean perfume is I think perfume is like owned by like one like one major conglomerate owns like most all the scents >> and then all these fancy brands just put their logo on that scent and it's like there's not like this and they they sell it like it's this crazy formulation that they did. So, I got to give you a little push back cuz my wife >> stopped using her women's skincare stuff and she uses she steals my Caldera Lab stuff. >> Nice. >> She likes it way more >> than the other stuff. So, it's although it's formulated for men, it's also different because when I look at women's products, when I look at the ingredients, >> uh your stuff is, and this is such a bastardized term, it's natural. There's a lot of natural ingredients >> whereas the other products are like very like chemical based type stuff. Is is that like a big is that like a big deal for you guys to make sure that okay >> huge deal that was from inception back when we started to dive into this category. What was happening in the in the women's category there was this clean movement. You know people were stepping away from toxic skincare, toxic home products, things of that nature. We just had a baby. my wife went super into it and uh that was always paramount to us to have uh a product line that came from natural ingredients but high quality natural ingredients and there are there are ingredients that are naturally derived that have like really high quality almost medical grade you know performance right and those are kind of the the activives and so >> we've always built our products with science and and nature as a combination Right. That's the ethos of of how we select our ingredients and build our formulations. So clean now and and and you know toxifree that is that is kind of the the the table spa stakes right in Europe there's like 1,200 ingredients banned right here >> better not here >> there are about 20 you know and so you know historically there's all these you know brands and products that had a lot of these things that were maybe not so good for you know and we're finding these out you know now with people getting sick and whatnot >> now how much how much more uh difficult andor expensive is it to go the whole natural route than to just jump on the bandwagon and throw some of the >> it's a lot more complicated, right? Because you know the the >> the stuff that is chemically made, right? It is it's it's made in a lab, right? It's very they they produce it very easily and it can combine well with other chemicals. When you have naturally derived products or natural ingredients, right, >> they have to be tested with the other ingredients for stability and irritency and things of that nature. >> I mean, all products do generally, but when they're naturalbased, right? Um, they just have a little bit more of of potential to, you know, interact with an other ingredient, not the way that you intended it, >> right? as far mixing the smell of it, the tech. Like I I could see how, >> oh, these two great natural things are supposed to be good for your skin, but boy, they just don't >> they don't work together. >> Now, does did you run into that a lot? Did you run into like, oh, I really want this in it, but it's just like they just >> Yeah. So, you know, when we kicked this thing off, we started reaching out to the top scientists, top formulators, top green chemists in the industry, telling them about our our vision of wanting to create a high performance premium skincare brand for men. And a lot of them, they all loved it. They all said we were crazy at the same time. And just because, you know, from their experience, the industry wasn't ready yet, right? and and some of the brands before us just failed. You know, pretty much every every male celebrity skincare brand out there before us didn't didn't make it, you know, and so we said, you know, that's a great place to be. You know, if if someone tells you don't go there in business, you probably want to look deeper. >> It's open water. It's essentially. >> Yeah. Green pastures there. >> Yeah. So, in fact, so that's actually one of the questions I was going to ask you cuz you're doing this and you're like, cool, less competitors. However, everybody seems to fail. >> Yeah. >> In this uh in this area. >> So, a big part of this um I I know this for a fact, but I'd like to ask you was going to be like, how do we reach this audience? How do we get men to consider skincare products when historically it just hasn't worked no matter what football player or athlete or whatever has presented it. Uh so, you must have looked at this and said, "Okay, how are we going to approach this and and connect with men?" And what what did that look like? >> Yeah. So, you know, I I I I've built this business a lot around my own personal journey and those of the people and my friends around me. You know, as I mentioned, as I started get getting older, my skin started to suffer. You know, I started investing more and more into nutrition, into fitness, and wellness, right? Longevity, taking care of myself, and and self-care being a big part of that, right? as we've brought this brand to market and we've identified a group of customers and a lot of them are your customers, right? Who are into those same things, >> right? We started tapping into uh a self-optimization movement, >> right? This this longevity movement, this fitness movement, this this kind of wellness, you know, category, right? That's >> that's it's a consumer shift, right? >> Totally. >> It's a consumer shift. Did you did you see it or did you like kind of feel it as it was happening? Was it like something like you for >> a little bit of both? I knew, you know, from myself and those around me, it's like, you know, I have friends who kind of went the other path, you know, don't work out, eat like you know, don't can't care, you know, don't don't really think twice about, you know, their their wellness overall, right? And and they're great. They love what they're doing, right? And then I have other friends like myself who are very conscious about, you know, how we show up every day and what we put in our body and how we train and how we, you know, think about >> everything that that is our whole wellness uh optimization stack, right? And so seeing that that movement take place and starting to tap into that advertising wise, right, on social, right, and p through podcasts and whatnot, tapping into where those customers out there are consuming their content and then showing up with with ads that, you know, explain our ethos of of a brand that that skincare is also about skin health and your overall health and tapping into that movement. That's where we I think we we hit a chord with our consumer. When did you guys uh hit the market? What year? >> So we launched in 2019. We started product development in 2017. So we worked on one product for almost two years and then we did a actual clinical trial to validate the performance and then we launched in January of 2019. Okay. So we're partners early. >> What what was the we'll get there cuz I want to ask that. But uh what was what percentage of the skincare market was men when you started? because you see them like what did it look like? Like how how big of a sliver? >> I you know I think it's it was very it was low single digits. [laughter] >> It's almost non-existent. >> Yeah. Yeah. Low single digits for premium skincare for men. Our first product that we launched the good which is our hero skew. It's $110. >> That's the other part that I thought was >> I mean you about a double leap. >> If you wrote the double leap right there it's like I got to convince dudes >> and I'm going to make 110 bucks. >> Yeah. And that that that >> that's why everyone said we were crazy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. So So and this is how you know you did a great job cuz we've worked with we've I've seen this with a couple companies, not very many where they come out with a product, everybody says crazy. >> Mhm. >> And then it does so well it creates a new market. >> I feel like you guys have done that. Like how do we know what the stats are now on what percentage of the skincare market has it changed since 2019? It's been growing double digits. Been been growing double digits. I don't know the exact I haven't looked at the the recent data, but you know, our business is growing exponentially. >> Okay. >> And and and so and 98% of our customers, you know, in our surveys, I say they're they're male customers and we look at our customer list and this is all men and they're buying for themselves. So the the movement is here. >> Did it did was it right out the gates or was it a slow >> No. So, so when we launched, you know, we we we didn't know like if we were going to be sitting in a ware with a warehouse of 10,000 of these things, right? >> And we only ordered 10,000 because, you know, that was kind of the the minimum order and we didn't want to like, you know, be too aggressive. >> Launched and day one, we started selling. We started selling and and, you know, we you know, we started ramping and ramping. Every month was bigger than the next. And and by the time from January when we got through summer, we started to see our our our inventory was really depleting and people re repeat purchasing and uh we're like maybe this is a real business. We'll have to place another purchase order. So placed another order. Immediately we started to get feedback, you know, love your product. I use a cleanser. I use a moisturizer. Can you bring those out to market as well? you know, and and that and that that when we started to get that feedback loop coming in, that was I think the the moment that we said, "Okay, we have confidence of in moving forward in in in really starting to grow and build this thing." >> Your customer retention is crazy. Yes. >> Okay. Cuz I because Okay, so [clears throat] I I'd love Adam, you got to share how we started working with them because >> Well, for for I will get there too, but I want to So you had an advertising background before this, >> correct? Right. It did, but but that was on the B2B side. >> Okay. >> So, never totally different. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Totally different, but still have >> you. Yeah. Under Yes. >> Yeah. So, you have a you have a decent foundation. I mean, to the point where I mean, I'm so curious to even how you you branded like the brand is is beautiful. It's obviously Did you hire that out? Did you figure that out yourself? How how many reiterations were there to like what this should look like and everything? Did you spend a lot of time on that? How much did you have to spend before you could even see if there was a market first? So, were you >> deep underwater financially before you even, you know, went out there? Like, what did that look like? >> So, a lot of questions, but all good ones. Yeah. So, uh researched a lot of about the industry early on like you know who are the who are the branding companies for these these brands you know these creative agencies that you go to like with an idea and they then they create your brand your packaging and things of that nature you know who are the PR agencies who are the contract manufacturers who who are the you know formulators so so researched all these things and and then you know the competition that exists in men's the competi you know the women's category. Built all that research and then decided to to design a plan and a strategy, right? Coming up with the name, you know, uh the location where the the business is going to be founded, you know, what's our first product, you know, what's the cogs, all those things, right? And so, you know, costwise, yeah, you I had to invest a lot of money in this company initially to get it off the ground to to to to design the brand to to do the packaging, to make that firstQ order, you know, of 10,000 units, right? And then build the website, you know, put together a small team of, you know, product development specialists and in e-commerce and then launch, right? So, so it takes takes a little bit, you know, and I didn't have any experience. So, yes, I understood the ecosystem of advertising and how things are are created. Yeah. >> But it was entirely new and it was a challenge. It was an exciting challenge because moving from, >> you know, ad tech into consumer >> is a completely different beast in many ways. You're dealing with real customers, right? And those real customers if they don't repurchase, you're dead in the water. Yes. You know, >> and and you know, I think >> what set us apart when I know what set us apart is our product development. So, you know, going back to that, you know, idea of going to a contract manufacturer, they have these formulas. You can just buy them. You you get exclusivity to them, whatever. Put a scent into them, you're you're in market with your new men's skincare business. That also happened that happened in the women's side as well. So, the brands that we identified in the women's category that were doing really interesting work were doing all custom formulation, >> right? So they're starting from scratch, right, with their own briefs and their ingredient selections. And then you iterate and iterate and iterate. You test through clinical trials and things of that nature. And then you go to market. It's a long time. It's like two to three years to bring a product out to market. There's a lot of risk. What if it doesn't work once you launch it? It has stability issues, all those things, right? You just wasted all that time versus that whole fail fast mentality. So we took the long hardway approach of product development. But that's the only way that we've identified you can build really like interesting formulas that actually have efficacy >> and get repeat purchases. >> Yeah. >> And that's been our moat is our product development. And then we went even further re recently with that, you know, you got, >> you know, proprietary formulas, right, with existing ingredients that ex that you can buy from like top, you know, ingredient suppliers, you know, peptides and and exoomes and all those things, right? Yeah. um we actually went into the biotech category where we started working on building our own proprietary ingredients with our the top labs in Europe, >> right? So the exoome category is the one that we focus in most recently. So, you know, product development for us is what really has separated us and has allowed enabled us to build a brand, get into market and grow year over year, quarter over quarter, become profitable, and then start to hit the wave that we're hitting now, right? Where word of mouth, you know, our our whole distribution channel is working. We're now going, we just went into Nordstrom's, you know, you know, >> wow, sick. >> What happened that we launched that in May? >> Awesome. And now we've already been, you know, shared that we're the number two men's brand. You know, >> sick. >> I don't know if I can say that, but [laughter] >> well, okay. So, the other thing that cuz all that's important for sure because what I mean customer focus, they get the product, they love the product. They tell that's one of the best ways to build and lay a foundation. But the other thing that I think people entrepreneurs just they they miss so much is that >> I don't care if you have the best product in the world getting in the hands of thousands of people to go test and fall in love with it to go tell thousands more people. [clears throat] So, did you have a, you know, at that time, did you have a social media or a podcast strategy? Like, how were you going to get this in the hands? I've got this awesome product. You know, you're going to win there. You've tested people who aren't even interested. >> Everybody that's your friend, okay, your circle, so 100 people maybe, right, are telling you how awesome it is, but 100 people doesn't build a multi-million dollar business. >> So, what's the strategy of how do I get this out to everybody? >> Yeah. So, it was a lot of fail and learn. Okay. you know, was like, "Yeah, we we you know, we have our website. Okay, great. [snorts] >> You know, social account, that's that's you need that for sure, right? Uh go and get a Meta account and start advertising, right? Did that to try that on our own. Then we then we like, okay, we're not doing it so well. So, let's hire an agency, you know, uh for for growth marketing, right? Let's let's what's let's what's let's what's, you know, hire some consultants to help us like think through how to like build a growth funnel, right? How to build ads, how to build landing pages, right? how to think about the this this whole growth funnel, you know, the top of funnel, midfunnel, low, like all these things that, you know, exist in um DTOC marketing, we didn't have any experience in, you know, and and or very little, right, with the team I put together. And so, every year we got a little bit better, a little bit smarter, and we went from one agency to the next, and finally I built an in-house team. And that was tough. That was tough. we, you know, that was almost, you know, seven years ago probably, right? And um or six years ago and and and that was that was when we really started to see progress take place is when we started to build our in-house team and learn how to how to do all those things internally. Isn't it funny that has I have a I'm a part of a a founders group with a lot of successful founders and one of the common themes we were just all together not that long ago in Miami that we all shared all of us that have been doing this for 10 plus years is uh that turning point uh we all hired all these agencies we all had stories of this one that one this one and all the learning experiences and then eventually when it all came together was when we built it in-house cuz in And you know, what do you think that is? You think it's uh nobody's ever going to, you know, love your child the way you do and you know, like, yeah, it's just no one's going to know your voice and brand as well as you, right? >> Yeah. I feel I feel the the same way. What was So, you you build it all in house. And by the way, too, just to give you some some flowers, >> uh we use uh the ads that you guys make of us. So, your whitelisting ads you run of us. We try and teach all the other partners how well you guys do that. We have to coach a lot of other partners on like how you take the content that we make when we talk about our our partners and brands that we love and make ads out of it. And you're whoever is doing that on your team does a phenomenal job. Does such a good job that we use them as the example of like you guys need to figure this out cuz we don't do it for them. We literally just do what we do which is talk about the brand that we love and they know how to chop it, piece it together and make it a great ad. You know what's cool about that is, you know, the team that we built, they didn't, you know, they didn't come from like the top brands and stuff. You know, the team that I built were very talented, smart, young professionals earlier in their career, right? Who you saw had a really high upside potential and they've developed those skills in house. Yeah. >> With our brand, >> right? And they've become a part of our brand. They they know it inside and out. They are the brand. >> That makes sense. >> Yeah. It's such a good It's such a good question because well, there's no question u how good your products are. Your re the your repurchase rate or loyalty has got to be through the roof. Yeah. >> And I know this because >> I have a lot of uh I have a big family, come from a big Italian family. There's a lot of uh male cousins. There's like nine of us that grew up together, all the same age. >> And once a year we do a Christmas party for Mind Pump. And so we'll invite them. And every guest that we invite to this Christmas party, we give them like a little goodie bag that includes like some gifts and stuff. And we've put in Caldera Lab products in there. And now my cousins, no interest in skincare. Zero. Like these are dudes that wash their face with like, you know, dish soap. Like they could care less. Every single one of them is a regular customer of Yeah. Cuz they used it once and they're like, "Oh my god, this stuff is incredible." Yes. So your loyalty, I mean, do you can you share what that looks like because it's got to be through the roof. >> Yeah, we're we're at the high high mark. So for a consumer brand, anything like over 30 40% is is is is decent. We're at the almost 70%. High high 60%. >> Crazy. Wow. >> Are men typically loyal like that with products or is that even a harder market to get? >> I mean, I've heard men are loyal. I'm loyal, you know, once I buy, you know, shoes or clothes or any, you know, brands that I enjoy that work for me, I stick with them, you know. So, so I know that we've always heard that. And but yeah, our customers are are super loyal. >> That's an interesting question. I wonder that comparing men and women because women typically are better customers, right? They're they're buyers. They they're consumers. >> But I bet >> once you win a guy over, we're probably more loyal to a brand. Like we're I'm so that way with everything. I find a sandwich, I eat the same damn sandwich every time. You never leave. >> Yeah. My wife hates it. She's like, "You want to go back to the same restaurant over and over again?" Well, there's there's something to be said about once you win that customer over like it's they're probably >> Okay, Adam, I want you to tell them how we all how we we started working with them. We >> How long has it been though? >> It has. So, do you remember what year? Cuz it had been pretty close to when you guys were launching. Were we your first podcast you ever worked with? >> I think so. I think it was I think we did a few podcasts within a short period of time >> within a 30-day mix. I think you guys were one of four or five. >> Yeah. And I I remember when it came across myself, my myself and and I actually don't know if C if Katrina was helping me at this time if it was all the way back to Taylor, but I've always ran the the partnership side. And typically the way this looks is I I do a lot of the negotiating talking to the partners. if I think it's something that's even worth bringing to these guys, I'll bring it over to them and say, "Hey, here's a company that wants to work with it, try it out, see what you guys like." And uh I had got it and I'm so of the four of us, I'm probably maybe I'd include Doug in there, too. Interested in more of the stuff, right? They they tease me of being the more feminine one out of all of us, right? So, I I care about how I look. I care about that stuff, right? Yeah. Justin washes faith gasoline. Justin S doesn't do anything. Uh, and so I started using I have psoriasis >> and so um and I'm very anti all the steroid creams they try and give you and stuff like that. >> And you got sensitive skin and I have very sensitive skin and uh man it's like instantly I saw a difference and I loved it and I was like man I really like this but I remember going these guys are nuts. [laughter] >> Neither one of these knuckleheads use anything like this. And so I bring it to and I said hey I really like this. I like this brand. I liked everything about your branding, your website. I saw obviously love the product. And I said, "Let's just try this." And I don't even remember what I I originally pitched you guys on advertising because I think I believe I was like, "I'm going to just give them a really low price because I don't want to I don't want to fail you. I don't want to like because it could be flat." >> Mh. >> And uh and and convince the guys to at least try it. And uh I'm pretty sure it took off really really well. >> We were sold. I'll tell you what sold me. So, I'm a big science guy. So, I looked at some of the ingredients and I'm like, "Huh, this is interesting." >> It's for me, I thought this is really good for the microbiome of the skin. That's what that's where I came from. That's correct. >> Cuz I know that the skin >> uh microbiome of the skin is very important. Um, a lot of people don't realize that there's a microbiome on your skin. >> Um, and you know, you had something earlier about how your skin is one of the first things people notice. Well, that's because the skin shows it displays a lot about your health. Gut health issues will show up on your skin. Liver issues will show up in your skin. even issues with blood lipids will show up on your skin. >> Uh so that kind of got me interested. But what sold me was you couldn't get two guys with more different skin than Justin and I. >> Yeah. >> Like it was actually wild to >> He's dry and ashy. I'm oily and dark. Okay. >> And how can we have the similar results? >> We used the I think it was the good, right? That's the serum. >> And both of us were like like I'm like, "Oh, it's oil. It's going to make my face super oily." No, it's like balance it out. this guy puts it on and looks and we're just both like, >> "Yeah, >> I think we're sponges like I think we're going to use this," you know, and so we were just totally sold >> from that point. >> I also think that's part of it too is um and I I believe this in the supplement market too, the supplements that do the best and show or when people can feel it right away, >> right? So, if it was like one of those products where it's like use this for 30 days and we promise your skin will be better and it's like, you know, what dude is going to do this every day? But it's like you do it one time and you can kind of feel and see the difference right away. >> And so something that it's like, okay, this is cool. And so yeah, it was a bit of twisting the arm to get them to try it. They were open was funny. >> Yeah. >> And so they were like they were open to it, but then the response we got from our audience was just incredible. >> Were we were we a big part of that initial push to kind of get into that audience? Did that make a big difference? >> That that opened our eyes big time. that that >> your type of audience, you know, people who are into self-optimization, into wellness and longevity, into fitness, right? That that there's a customer base out there for us, >> right? And we tapped into that through your podcast. It it validated what we we assume was going to be a really strong customer base and now it's just been, you know, pure chemistry. you know, it's it's been, you know, an incredible relationship and uh your customers are are some of our highest value customers. >> I you know, I imagine too because it is such a perfect marriage when you think about the storyline of of what you did and what you try to do by bringing creating a new market. What happens when you this is similar to what's happening even in the peptide space and why we we do really well for those companies is there's there's there's a bit of an education process that you need, right? like trying to educate men on why this is good for them. The microbiome of the skin understand that this is some of the things that I think that s we do on the podcast so well cuz getting them con and then once you convince them to try it you deliver on the product. So it's like we do a really good job of explaining like why this is so good, how this sell for you, why it will work >> and then when you deliver on the back end of oh it's a hell of a product. It's just this win-win and it's been it's been it's been an incredible thing to watch and we joke about it all the time about like who would have ever thought that we would have a skin product is probably one of our number one >> worked if it was just aesthetic marketing at all. Yeah. I think the whole natural and health angle for men like that clicks cuz it's like okay this is like >> functionally good for me like it's my skin benefits from this as opposed to it being just like oh I'm going to look youthful. I don't know a lot of dudes that talk like that. I >> I got to say though, it's just the weirdest thing. I've done a few ads for you guys and they're they're true. I They're honest. >> I've had people come up to me in the gym, dudes, and they've commented on my skin, which is very strange to have a grown man, >> but it's happened like four times. >> Yeah. >> And I immediately I'm like, "Oh, well, that was a company that I work with, Kelly." In fact, I've had people stop me and ask me if I was a a spokesperson for you guys because we ad [laughter] that. So, talk a little bit about the some of the the science that goes in >> to the products and the ingredients. Uh the first product you have was that was that the good was that the Okay. So, what went into that or what's in that that makes it work so well and let's kind of go through some of the some of the different ones that you have now. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, the good. So, so being in Jackson, this is a cool story, right? Early on, my wife and I started meeting with local botnists. Botnist, somebody who studies plants, right? >> And um >> I bet you get great ones out there. >> You probably have some incredible botist out. >> Incredible botnist. Ethnobbotist. Ethnobbotist is somebody who studies how humans work with plants for medicinal re purposes and things of nature >> that nature. So we we had an idea of of you know could we find plants in the region that had skinincare healing properties that we could use in our in our products and in working with the botist there in Jackson Hole in the mountain west uh we identified several plants fireweed elderberry and several others you know u that we started to to test with the labs that we're talking about with. And so, um, with the green scientists that we worked with and the formulators that had, you know, that were biologists and all these really exciting, uh, academics and and and skincare experts, we put together like an ingredient list of over 2,000 ingredients. >> Oh gosh. >> You know, to evaluate and to think about, right? And with the intent to try and and bring in some of these plants from Jackson Hole in in in the region. And the reason why is these plants that live up there in that that region, they're called survivor plants, right? They're survivor plants because they live in really harsh conditions. They go away in the dormant in the winter and they come back very vibrant in the summer and they're full of antioxidants, right? >> Because it protects them from the This is funny because you grow plants and you want to make them really strong with whatever act you stress them. >> That's right. Yeah. That's right. >> Interesting. >> Yeah. And so instead of like getting, you know, ingredients that are farmed, even if they're organically farmed, right, wild wild plants have a lot more antioxidants. And and so we tested this, you know, to to verify that. >> And and and so that kind of thinking and and philosophy of science started to go into how we built the good. And the good was, you know, very, you know, naturally derived. you know, it was oilbased serum, which at the time there really weren't any, you know, oil-based serums for men or in in general, you know, but um when using that type of a product in that region, it just felt so nice on my skin and those that we tested it with, you know. So from there we started to look at what are really high-end activives like an anthrozanum I think it's called you know >> um and putting those types of of activives together with with some of these these plants like the fireweed etc and then test it to see how it performs in the labs and then do an actual clinical trial. The clinical trial is really the one where, you know, you go out to, you know, 40, 50, 60 people that you have no relationship with that's run by a lab. They test it multiple ways through instrument testing, but also photography and surveys and all that to get real third party valid validated results, right? And that's that's kind of, you know, how we got to a place of can we really launch a product that we believe in that we think is going to have repeat purchases that's going to actually drive efficacy. And so that's where the brand started, you know, and then we we unleash, you know, really working with sophisticated formulators and scientists to bring in more of the the plant-based biotech skincare. >> Got it. How how the hell do you find guys like this? Is there like a Google search club or is this like a a friend who introduces you to another like >> yeah re research helps right one you you you so so you meet you know these these contract manufacturers you meet these formulators you you you look for scientists in the category on LinkedIn and things of that nature and you start you know reaching out them to them saying hey you know this is my brand what I'm developing some will say yes we'll work with you and some will say no we don't think you have a shot and you're not worth my time you And as we've grown as a brand, we have access now to the top lines in the industry who have built the best brands. >> Yeah. >> You know, in in in the space. >> What what how how many of the the activives or the plants and the good are from wild grown plants? Is it a big percentage? >> There's uh there's about four that that are in uh the good that that we >> that you have to get from >> every summer we have botnists who are who are wild harvesting. I was just going to say, how does that like they just got to go out into the wilderness? >> So, they go out into their wilderness, they go to their patches, they know where where where they are and they they they wild harvest and they do it responsibly so they don't get the whole patch and they get a part of it so it regenerates and they do this all over in different areas. >> Oh my gosh. And so, how does that work? Do you have to buy land to do this or do you just are you able to do it on >> So, so they have their regions, right? They have their their their, you know, relationships with wherever they go and they wild harvest. Are there popular or commonly used uh activives in other skincare products that you guys don't use >> like retinol? Do you guys use retinol? >> We don't use retinol. We use like plant-based retinols and things of that nature because you know I a lot of this I just you know test on myself whenever I use a retinol. My face gets extremely chafed. >> That's right. >> And and it can't I can't kick it, you know. And the thing with retinol, you have to keep on using it and using it because it >> it basically eats away. [laughter] Yeah. It kills your layers of skin. It's like when you get a scab and you your scab goes away and you have that white or that the the pink, you know, it's the same thing with your face and you have to go through that process for like 3 weeks or something to that effect. My face can't handle that. And a lot of men that I know can't handle either because they they have like sensitive skin, you know. So, we stay away. And that's the thing when I was testing, you know, a lot of women's products that had some of these really advanced, you know, high-grade, you know, ingredients in there that do these pills and whatnot. They're harsh. >> They're harsh. You know, that doesn't work for me, you know, and the people my friends it didn't work for. So, we stayed away from some of those, you know, but there are activives that are more gentle, right, that that can work with a male skin type. >> What So, here's why my wife switched cuz she's used all the other stuff. You know, she's obviously a woman, so she's used female stuff >> and now she switches over uh and uses primarily, if not only Caldera Lab products. She says it it doesn't feel like it's forcing her skin >> to look healthy. It's almost like it's just >> uh like encouraging it to look healthier or it's just becoming healthier. Whereas the other stuff was harsh, I think would be the right word. >> That's a great point. You know, >> this whole anti-aging thing, right? It's kind of right? [laughter] Right. We're all aging, right? >> You know, uh you know, we have anti anti-aging products, but you know, they're healthy aging products. You know, >> that's a great point. >> You know, it's it's healthy aging, >> right? >> And I think that you the content that you produce, right? It's like, you know, you're trying to help people age health in a healthy way, wise way, right? And that's what our products do. You know, like your wife points out, you don't have to go through this whole, you know, week or two of of looking. >> It's like waging war on your skin to get it to look the way you want. You're you're gonna you're gonna use it and your skin's going to feel healthier in in days if not weeks, you know, for most people. >> Well, the first time. Yeah. >> Uh you you mentioned exosomes. I know this is like a big like this is a big talking point now. Uh in >> what which one of your products is high in the exosomes? Is it the uh which one is it? >> So, so last year we brought to market two products uh a new skin care serum called the great and a new moisturizer called the hydro. >> The hydrolayer. That's the one. Okay. And so both products have our new patent pending exoomes and we built those specifically for for male skin. Uh and and and so exoomes are really small and they're a delivery system. And and what that means is they can go significantly deeper into your skin dermis to the places that really need the ingredients, right? And so that's what the exoomes do. >> The delivery >> it's it's a delivery mechanism, right? and and they can hold a tremendous amount of um uh like fluid or moisture I think it is. Right. So, right. Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, so you have the base layer, hydro layer, the good. What What are they all different or how are they all different? What are they all good for? >> Yeah. So, when we first built the line with the with the the good and the base layer, it's for more drier skin, drier climates, right? M >> um but you know we missed out on a certain skin type you know which is more normal to oily skin right and so as we started building the business and we were getting you know interest from our customers saying hey you know I have oily skin I live in Miami I can't really use your products because you know they're they're built for you know more of a a drier skin type and drier climate right so so that was one of the reasons why we started to to go down the path of okay let's let's new products, but let's also add even more intensity of of of new biotech ingredients and and continuing to advance the innovation forward. So, that was the great in the hydro layer that we brought out last year that are crushing it. >> Are they doing really well? How's the growth of the company been since you guys started? >> It's been exponential, you know, and this year we're having our best year. It's, you know, we're growing high double digits. >> Wow. >> You know, it's profitable. Um, you know, we've tapped into this movement of of longevity and self-optimization, wellness that, you know, guys are more into the, you know, taking care of themselves and self-care and skincare being that one piece, you know, to kind of finish it off, you know, converting men, you know, who who've done all these things. Now, skincare is like that last piece. So, so the business is is tapped into that that movement and and the acceleration is is is really exciting. We skipped the one product that I absolutely absolutely I absolutely love. He raves >> and always talk about >> and I I'm always telling these guys that they have to use it more is the bar of soap. The >> body bar. >> I have never had a natural bar of soap lather. The my biggest pet peeve of natural bars of soap >> is it feels like I'm doing nothing. And I know the lather and and the foam and toothpaste and I know all that is made up to make you feel like you're getting cleaner or soapier, but it doesn't matter. There's something about it that I just I like to feel and see. >> It's a really thick look. It's like a >> I'm so fascinated by how you did that and why nobody else that has natural soaps >> can make a lather. What is that? >> So, >> I mean, you have to give away the secret if it's actually a super secret. >> This goes to our core of our product development process. We take a long time to build products to make sure that they kick ass, right? >> And it's like, well, how do you make a bar of soap kick ass? >> Try it and you'll see how, right? And so, you know, it took time. We took we went to the best, you know, soap manufacturer in the industry and said, you know, we want to build the highest performing soap in the market for men and here's what we wanted to do and here's the ingredients that we want in it, and here's what we don't want in it, and here's the experience that we want. And it took time to get there, you know, because these things, you know, when when you when you create them, you know, they have a different experience or they they don't last long because you have all these, you know, ingredients in their natural or these activives and stuff like that and it changes colors and so you have to go through iteration after iteration after iteration to get it right and it took a very long time to get that bar of soap to perform. >> Okay. So, does it does it perform as well as I feel like it should because I feel like it's my one of my favorite things. >> All talk about it. >> Yeah. Yeah. No. I mean, I have I have two more behind me that are there's one right there. Yeah. Coming home with me. I mean, I I go through it. It's uh my favorite product. >> Yeah. Surprisingly, that is becoming one of the hottest sellers for us. >> Well, for me, I think that's what it is is that I've forever I I like natural soaps and so and and when we go different places, I always try different ones and uh and they're crazy expensive sometimes these things that I try. And the thing that I always hate is that I I I feel like I'm just rubbing wax on my [laughter] pot. I can't see anything. I'm not sure if I got any. But >> I'm telling you off air, this guy who talks about your soap, we tease him. We tease him about it >> because I've never seen it. I've never I've never se I've never seen natural soap like that that that lathers last as good as it does. >> Are you guys growing in the in the in in the female market? Is that starting to grow? cuz I can think of another brand that off the top of my head that went after men in a market >> uh that was like everybody thought they were crazy and they blew up and now they're reaching the female market as a result. >> Uh are are you guys seeing that? >> Yeah. Yeah, we we're absolutely seeing it. You know, whether they're buying it for themselves or for their partners, you know, we don't have that visibility. We know around like, you know, the holidays that happens a lot, but it is a growing uh percentage of our customer base. But the men's side is that's the bread and butter. That's what really where who we who we're building product for, what makes us unique, and and where we're seeing the the growth. >> Now, is there consideration though to dabble on the other side? >> No. No. I think I think we're going to stay in our lane. Yeah. Yeah. you know, when when brands start to to go off into different lanes and do all different types of products and things, I don't we're never going to do supplements, you know, we're never going to start going to things that like, >> you know, we don't know that well, but maybe it's hot right now and we're seeing other brands do it. You know, we've always been told by really smart investors and things like, you know, that once you see a brand start doing something that's not quarter their their their brand, Yeah. >> Right. what brought them here. >> That means that something's not going well. >> Right. Right. They're getting desperate. They're just looking for, you know, LTD. Right. So, uh, anything in the future that what are you are you working on something that you can shave to or talk about? >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, so body we're going to continue to to uh lean into. You're going to see more products there. Skincare is always going to be our core. That's always going to be >> our our our our core of the brand. We're always going to be innovating, bringing the best ingredients and formulations. Uh we do some hair care as well, right? >> But um I think uh what you'll see next from us is a deodorant that's going to come out uh later later this year that we've been working again on for a very long time. We wanted to nail the experience of it. You know, wanted to put the the highest quality ingredients in there and and you know, no white residue, you know, like the amazing scent but being natural, you know. >> Oh, I can't wait to see that, >> you know, and so um that that's something that we're pretty excited about. But our skincare products, that's really where the real innovation and science is taking place. >> And then is uh you I mean you said you tested several podcasts. Our experience um with our partners that have tested other podcasts, we tend to ruin the experience for them for a lot because nobody ever is like our audience. And so do you are you with the same partners still? Is it have you bounced around? Is it just us? Like who else are you working with in the podcast space? Are you guys still testing that? What's that look like? We we we spend a lot in podcasts. Yeah. It's it's a nice channel for us. It's a it's an authentic way to get in front of customers that we don't touch in social and other means that we're advertising >> and and so yeah, podcast is a very nice channel, but you guys are you're you're number one. You know, your audience is number one. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Trying to renegotiate a contract. >> No, we got a great partners. >> I mean, you're uh [laughter] number two. >> Number two. >> He know he knows that. >> Careful. Oh, you're giving him competitive. >> What's your top seller? >> Top seller is still the good. >> Okay. >> Our hero our hero ski. >> Is it just because it's the hero and it's been around the longest or do you think it's just truly that it is the one that everybody >> Yeah, we've built up a really big customer base with it. You know, it's been around since day one. It's it's, you know, really what we put, you know, all our creativity and all our innovation into. >> Uh, but, you know, the great hydro layer, you know, those are those are coming up quite quickly. the ones that we launched last year. Um, but our our core skincare, you know, the the top ones. So, so you know, the good the base layer, our cleanser crushes it, you know, that that's that that one's huge. You [snorts] know, eye serum. Those are the products, you know, that that drive the most volume for the customer. And that's exciting for us because you know as a brand >> you're your the score of your health of of a brand is like you know how well are your core products doing in your core category. If that's doing well then you're doing well as a as a company. >> Well I'm going to take it on as a personal goal to make the bar of soap a top three cuz I think that that's the one that people are missing out on. I just think that I first of all I don't know any dudes that loofah or use any other like >> well Doug [laughter] probably does >> body gel stuff. So most dudes are bar soap guys and it is the best bar soap I've ever used in my life. So I mean I'm going to >> I got to I got to say too cuz I know that like uh you know you got the good which is uh you know kind of oil based and you have the base which is a little more matte and the hydro layer which is kind of more >> I've used all three of them. I actually use I have all three of them at home and depending on which one is closer to me, that's the one I'll probably use. My skin is relatively oily. They all work great. >> And what that tells me as somebody that likes to look into the science of products and stuff is that they're all good for my skin, >> right? >> So like whether your skin's oily or dry, if you use something that improves the health of your skin, >> uh it's gonna it's going to be okay. It's going to work. Whereas I I think other products are like this is for oily skin, this is for dry skin because it's almost like chemically forcing your skin to appear to be different. Whereas I can use any of your I can use any of them. Uh and they all will look good on me. They all make my skin look better. >> My favorite is definitely the good, but they're all >> they all work really great, which really speaks to the fact that you guys understand >> skin health. >> Do you get uh any feedback from So uh I it's been huge for me for my psoriasis. Um, I stopped using any steroid creams, anything like that whatsoever and it's been incredible for that. Do you get feedback from clientele that are using it similarly like that for >> Absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. >> Yeah. I think it's I think it's great for that. And I know that sometimes with stuff like that, we're not allowed to say that, >> right? There's laws and rules. >> That's right. Yeah. >> Around that stuff. You know, people write in emails and they leave reviews and, you know, we just feel good about it. We can't promote it, but we feel good about as a brand. >> That's why I figured that you guys can't make because obviously I'm sure you would advertise it if you could, but I I mean I talk about that. That's what I use it for and it's it's been awesome to get away from any of those steroid >> cream. I've gotten messages from our listeners who've used your products who have acne and it actually helped their acne, which is wild. Yes. >> Because you would not expect >> a moisturizer or a serum or anything like that do to, you know, to do anything to acne. Yeah. >> But again, I think it has to do with the the skin's microbiome cuz that has a profound effect >> on you get messages from people about that kind of stuff. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> That's wild. >> Yes. >> That's really really crazy. >> Yeah. >> So, >> where where's uh where's headquarters? So, are you are you based in is the headquarters in Jackson or is it >> So, we launched the company in Jackson and then we moved it into Austin, Texas in 21. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, now it's in Austin. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And then what's the team look like now? Do you have I mean full I know you built your in-house team. How many employees you guys at right now? >> We have uh a little over 20. >> Okay. Nice. >> A little over 20 consultants. >> Most everybody in in-house. >> Everyone's uh so so uh we don't have an office in Austin. Everyone's virtual. >> Okay. >> But our employees are employees and they they work, you know, they live in throughout the country. >> Um but yeah, it's a small but mighty team. You know, they're they're super talented and everyone, you know, loves the brand. They believe in the brand. They are part of the product development process. They see like how long it takes and how complicated, how sophisticated it is to actually build these products, how we test them, all these clinical trials that we do for all the top ones, you know, so they they know that we're just not like a marketing company. They know that we're actually a skincare company building real product, real innovation. Yeah. >> You know, and then we've learned the how to market them well, you know, and how to find a customer. is is your typical consu obviously guy interested in health, fitness, wellness age age range 35 to 45 is that what I would call >> yeah you know 35 to 70 is kind of that that range but 40 to 60 is kind of like our our our sweet spot usually [laughter] when you're 30s you can still get away with using you know >> little to no products you know just maybe you cleanser maybe it's a bar of soap you know and then your skin starts getting a little dry and you maybe start using your body lotion on your face. You know, I did that. You know, I know a lot of guys do it, >> you know, and then and then you start to think about, well, you know, I'm starting to see stuff happen. Maybe I'll try something a little bit better. And you go to like another product. >> Talk about the clinical trial because I love I've broughten that up many several times on the show. It's on your website and it talks it's like 90 it was like over 90% >> of the participants saw like these pretty dramatic improvements in things like fine lines, wrinkles, >> skin quality. Are those expensive to run? Like how long it did the trial was it 30 days, 60 days? >> Yeah. So for our first one it was somewhere between like 60 and 90 days or something to that effect right and we had I don't know 40 plus uh individuals right and we didn't you know we don't have any relationship with them the lab's the one who engages with them they're very expensive they're very risky you know because >> Yeah because you bad results you get bad results exactly you know we we you know the first one we ran we had none of us on the team have had ever run a clinical trial Right. So, we were just like, >> okay, you know, sweating and rolling the dice. But, you know, we we knew we had a good product. We, you know, based on, >> you know, giving it to friends and family and stuff and and so, yeah, we went through that whole process of testing it uh through clinical results and, you know, they do the instrumentation studies, the surveys, all that stuff. And then you get the data back and and you know, you're you're kind of holding your breath and and it came back incredible. And from that point, >> how many trials now have you done? Have you done two? I think we've done three or four. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. So, anybody listening, you could go look up the if you like data that's the trials will show you. >> That's right. >> That this it's legit. And although the the the you mentioned the price point of the of the good, >> it lasts forever. You only need like a drop of that to cover your whole face. >> That's the part that's probably deceiving about the about the price. And I think if somebody who might see it and go, "Wow, that's really expensive." It lasts a long time, too. Yeah. So you get a lot out of that >> at least a month. You know, for many people it's like two months or month. >> Oh yeah. If you get if you you're using it daily and quite you'll it still lasts a month if you every other day or what it'll it'll stretch out much longer than that. Were you did you uh bootstrap everything? Are you selfunded or did you guys take on money? >> So I I self-funded it and then I got a profitable uh and in 2024 we did a series A small series A that we raised. >> Any plans to still take investments? Are you still trying to scale and grow? What's the, >> you know, we're we're, you know, fortunate enough to be, you know, profitable and growing fast and being able to to manage it all on our own right now. We have a lot of, you know, high-quality blue chip investors reaching out. But, you know, I think the >> the the strategy at this point is to to keep our heads down and continue focusing on building the best brand we can. >> Yeah. >> You know, at some point, you know, that might happen, you know, where we, you know, look to to to really scale it even even more so than than it is now. But, you know, we're in a good position where we don't need it. >> Yeah. And and when's when's Nordstrom? When does that start? >> So, we launched in May. And >> Oh, did we launch in May? >> How's it going? >> It's going great. Yeah, we're we're one of the top uh men's brands. They're telling us we're we're potentially number two. >> Oh my gosh. >> Good for you. >> Thank you. >> That's huge, man. That's exciting. >> Now, is it was this a test just a couple and then it could go nationwide or did you go all the way? >> Yeah. We went into uh 30 like 33 stores in their top markets, you know, and and um you know, they've they've really partnered with us to be their their top, you know, one of their top men's brand launches for this year. And so it's been exciting. We just launched in their flagship in New York City and it went incredibly well. You know, we we brought in estheticians and, you know, we didn't know if we're going to be able to get people from off the street to come in and get facials and they were they were coming in. It was pretty pretty damn wild, you know, and uh it was an exciting launch. Well, I love I I love hearing uh success stories like yours. I love hearing about success stories from entrepreneurs with good purpose and passion behind what they're doing and uh we have a special connection because we started with you kind of early on. So, it's been great to see, you know, kind of the start the small company we're working with and now I I see you guys everywhere. People talk about you. So, it's really cool to hear about all this and I think you're this is like the beginning. I think you guys are going to keep just crushing >> which is kind of cool. And expect more competitors. I think you you've created a new market. >> There are a lot of competitors. >> Yeah. Because you've kind of you've shown people now that there's a market here. >> That's right. >> Which is a good news. It just >> It is good news. You want competition. >> Absolutely. Bring more awareness to you guys. >> That's right. That's what it's doing. >> Awesome. Well, thanks for coming. >> Thanks for the partnership. Thanks for having me. >> All right. I know you like that episode. If you did, check this one out. 30% body fat for men. This is way too high. [music] This is actually a bit high for women as well. So, in today's episode, we're talking about how you can go from 30 to 10. What is 10% body fat? This is when you have a visible six-pack. Can you go from 30 to 10%, yes, it's possible, but not if you guess along the way. So, we're going to talk about how you can do that in today's episode. >> Now, there's a huge range, right, of like body types. Some people can run uh a little bit heavier uh and or a little bit higher