Video summary
In this episode of Impact Theory, Tom Bilyeu addresses how to effectively navigate interactions with difficult people, emphasizing that while one's biggest enemy is often oneself, mastering personal emotions and taking responsibility makes dealing with others significantly easier. He introduces an African proverb stating that if you want to go fast, go alone; however, for long-term success in life or business, working well within a group is essential despite the inevitable friction caused by difficult individuals. Bilyeu argues that toxicity often stems from an outward-focused gaze where people lack self-awareness and project their own deficiencies onto others through judgment and moralizing. He suggests that rather than trying to convince these individuals of their errors—a fruitless endeavor—one should practice compassion, empathy, and loving-kindness. By understanding that such corrosive mentalities are punishments unto themselves for the holder, one can maintain a joyful life focused on progress and skill-building without letting external negativity permeate their own mind. When facing specific challenges like family members who refuse to accept boundaries or people displaying irritation without addressing it, Bilyeu advocates for direct yet gentle communication strategies known as "emotional jujitsu." Instead of ignoring obvious frustration, he recommends acknowledging the elephant in the room by asking if one might be misreading signals and expressing a genuine desire to understand what triggered the other person's agitation. He advises against trying to win arguments or prove someone wrong, noting that defensiveness often arises when people feel their self-esteem is under attack rather than just having incorrect ideas. In situations where common ground cannot be reached due to entrenched values, he suggests asking clarifying questions about base assumptions and proposing appeals to expert opinions if facts are disputed. If a conversation reveals a fundamental collision of values regarding the ultimate goal or desired outcome, Bilyeu concludes that it is often best to acknowledge this divergence gracefully rather than forcing an agreement on incompatible worldviews. For those dealing with rude customers in service roles like cashiers, Bilyeu shifts the focus from pointing out flaws to spreading joy and changing energy dynamics through kindness. He references Jordan Peterson's concept of telling the truth while leaving some truths unsaid for the sake of maintaining a positive interaction, arguing that forcing someone to admit they are being difficult often escalates conflict rather than resolving it. Instead of engaging in name-calling or intellectual boxing matches triggered by insecurity, he encourages individuals to ask themselves how much joy and warmth they can inject into an obnoxious situation with a smile. This approach does not mean tolerating abuse but rather choosing to respond with generosity to de-escalate tension and restore human connection. He notes that people often speak so that they can understand their own thoughts while talking, which leads to rambling arguments; by gently asking someone to state their thesis succinctly or allowing them time to process verbally, one can keep the conversation grounded and prevent scope creep from derailing discussions. Ultimately, Bilyeu asserts that recognizing when you are being difficult yourself is a sign of self-awareness rather than weakness, as it often indicates triggered insecurities or defensive posturing. He recommends reading Lisa Feldman Barrett's book *How Emotions Are Made* to better understand the physiological and psychological mechanisms behind emotional reactions. The core philosophy presented throughout the discussion revolves around steel-manning arguments—generously articulating the other person's position before presenting one's own—to ensure both parties truly understand each other's stances. By leading with kindness, focusing on what can be controlled within oneself, and recognizing when a relationship has reached an impasse due to conflicting values, individuals can transform difficult interactions into opportunities for growth. Bilyeu concludes that the ability to navigate these complexities is crucial not only in personal relationships like marriages but also in scaling businesses where partnering with diverse minds is inevitable, promising that adopting this mindset will lead to legendary outcomes and a more harmonious world.
Read the full video transcript
How do you make it stick? Your biggest
enemy is you.
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you on the inside.
Hey everybody, welcome to another
episode of Impact Theory. Today, we are
going to be talking all about difficult
people, all of the things in your life
that people can do that might trip you
up. This is something that as you begin
to
master your own emotions, as you begin
to implement certain belief systems that
are going to allow you to progress in
life, that focus you on you taking
responsibility, suddenly you're going to
find that other people become a lot
easier to deal with. But nonetheless,
other people can be a source of
friction, and learning how to navigate
that well is really the difference
between being frustrated and hopeless
and not sure how to make things come
true in your life and actually doing
really great things. And this comes back
to an African proverb, which I think is
really powerful, which is, "If you want
to go fast, go alone. If you want to go
far, go in a group." If you want to do
something really amazing with your life,
you are absolutely going to have to
figure out how to work well with other
people. And we all know that not
everybody is as easy to deal with as
each other. So, figuring out how to
navigate the particularly tricky
situations is critical. So, that is what
we're going to spend our time on today.
Let's start off with this. How do you
deal with toxicity in the family? What
if my parents are actually the difficult
people to deal with because of the
mindset that they're in? Okay.
Cut right to the chase on this one, man,
because let me tell you, a lot of people
struggle with their family. Now, here is
the hard reality to be faced.
For a lot of toxic people, the right
answer is to just distance yourself, to
not be around them, to um close that
door, create the boundaries, and make
sure that you don't have to deal with
them. And the reality is that option is
on the table even for family. But, if
you guys are anything like me, the idea
of um cutting them out of your life,
even if they're difficult, um I'm
grateful that I don't have toxic people
in my immediate family. That is for
sure. But, nonetheless,
there are certain people that I wouldn't
cut out of my life, no matter what their
mindset is. And so, because that's the
harder group to deal with, I want to
address that first. So, let's say that
there's somebody in your life. It could
be your parents, could be a sibling,
could be a loved one.
And for whatever reason, you're
unwilling to carve out that boundary and
just say, "I'm not going to have them in
my life." Um then, it becomes part of
the toxicity is that you're taking on
what they're saying. And this is where I
want you guys to understand. You don't
even have to make a big scene about it.
When people try to put something on me,
tell me that I can't be something, I
can't do something, the way that I live
my life is a mistake, and I'm hurting
myself, and I'm hurting other people,
I don't have to take that on, just
because they believe it. And then, more
importantly, I don't have to convince
them otherwise. So, it is okay for
people to have a negative opinion about
you. And one thing that I want you guys
to understand is when somebody is coming
at something with that kind of
negativity, when where they live is a
negative place, when their world view is
this dark and gloomy place such that
they feel the need to moralize to other
people, to tell them what they're doing
is wrong. That is such
a gnarly place to live.
It is a corrosive mentality. And so
people that imbue that,
not only do you not need to take it on,
not only do you not need to convince
them, but the thing that's probably
going to serve you the best in that
moment is compassion, to understand
that living in that mentality of
self-righteousness,
of seeing the faults in other people
without having the self-awareness to see
your own mistakes, your own foibles, the
the problems with your own mentality, to
be so outwardly focused that you feel
that you need to go around telling other
people how to live or to judge them.
That is a punishment unto itself. And
part of the reason that it's a
punishment unto itself is anytime that
you are looking to the outside world for
the problems, you fail
to recognize in yourself your own
deficiencies, which stop you from
progressing. Now, if I'm right that
progress is a foundational pillar to
human happiness, which everything I know
about life and humans
reinforces that that is a true
statement,
then anything that stops you
from seeing yourself clearly
is something that holds you back. It
stops you from having that progress. It
stops you from building a life of joy.
And at the end of the day, living a
joyful life is really the sum total of
this. So when people are coming after
you like that and they're not coming to
you from a place of compassion or
empathy,
that darkness, that bitterness, that
anger, that vitriol is its own
punishment. It is corrosive. It does
hold people back. It will stop them from
ever having the joyful life that they
want. The most joyful people in the
world, the only fingers they ever point
are thumbs.
And they point them back at themselves.
And
when you look for what you can control,
when you look for the things that you
can do differently in your life to get a
different result, now all of a sudden
you realize that you're not out of
control. You're not powerless. There's
no reason to feel hopeless because you
can get better. You can improve. You can
recognize where you are deficient.
You can recognize what your goals demand
of you, and then you can just go about
building that skill set, improving
yourself, and getting the outcomes that
you want in life. And that progress
that progress in and of itself is the
reward. It is the thing that leads to
joy.
Having skill set that matters to you and
other people is the thing that leads to
fulfillment.
And the very thing that makes people
attack you is
an outward-focused gaze.
And those that focus outward fail to see
the opportunities in themselves.
So, what I do when I'm around somebody
that is struggling,
even when it manifests as an attack on
me,
is I remember I don't have to convince
them, which is a huge thing for me to
realize. It's okay for them to feel that
way.
I don't have to change their mind, which
will be a fruitless endeavor, which will
only be frustrating for me.
And I can do what they call
loving-kindness, which sounds really
cheesy, but when you look at
meditators who practice loving-kindness,
it has a profound
psychological, but also physiological
impact on the brain.
So, just be compassionate. Have empathy.
Fill your heart with love for that
person and whatever they're going
through.
And honestly, when you do that, you'll
be surprised. Maybe not in the immediate
term, but you'll be surprised on a long
enough time scale how
that changes the energy between the two
of you. It's what I call just sit.
Just sit with the person. Just be with
them. Don't try to change them. Don't
worry about what they think about you.
Just sit. Just be.
And that's it.
Then, all the toxicity that they have
cannot
permeate your mind.
And no matter how toxic the outside
world is, if it doesn't permeate your
mind, it doesn't really matter.
At least not for you.
And that's my advice
when you can't get away from somebody
who's toxic.
Next.
How do you deal with people that show
irritation when you speak, but don't
address what their problem is? I love
this one. Okay, so here's what I do. I
call that [ __ ] out in real time. Now, I
don't call it out like, "Yo,
[ __ ] what are you doing?" I
call it out like, "Hey, let me know if
I'm misreading, but you really seem
frustrated." It is so scandalous. Nobody
ever does that. Nobody ever acknowledges
the elephant in the room. People feel
like they can say something however they
want to say it, and you're only going to
be able to comment on the actual words
that they say, which is [ __ ] That's
some weird convention that just isn't
true. And if you take the time to say,
"Hey,
totally, I could be misreading this, but
you seem frustrated." No, no, no, I'm
not frustrated at all.
You're coming across aggressive. And if
you can help me understand why, cuz if
there's something that I'm doing or
saying that's upsetting you, I want to
understand it. And if you're saying that
not as a gotcha, but really actually
trying to understand it. Like you're
you're trying to disarm the situation.
You are more than prepared to point
those two thumbs at you. You're more
than prepared for you to actually have
done something that you didn't see that
might have upset that person that might
They might really have a legitimate
grief.
And if you
come at it from that standpoint and
you're not trying to trick them, trap
them, you're just actually trying to
understand that desire to understand and
when they realize there's nowhere to
hide because you're going to point out
the way that something is being
delivered. And by the way, I will throw
people a lifeline. So, when I say, "Hey,
you know, I'm really just trying to
understand. You seem upset, frustrated,
agitated.
Help me see cuz if I did something, I
would want to address that." And then if
they keep demonstrating that they're
angry but keep saying that they're not,
then I would just say, "Help me
understand the
the level of aggression that's coming
across now. Do you think I'm just
misinterpreting it? Whatever." And so
then we go down that path. Now, in a
fantasy land, there's somebody nearby
that you can actually pull in. And so in
impact theory, we always tell people,
"Don't go have one of these arguments
alone. Grab another peer or in the case
of a company, somebody that you report
to to essentially moderate the
discussion." So, you could say, "Hey, if
you think I'm misinterpreting the signal
and that there is no frustration or
agitation here, I'm perfectly willing to
um be told that I'm just misreading the
situation." And so, then if it's like um
they're having a hard time recognizing
that they're being frustrated. If we
were alone and there's nobody there to
moderate, then I might say something by
way of a lifeline like, "You know, is it
possible that when I said this, that
that hit you the wrong way?" And so, you
sort of pre-masticate the idea for them.
Maybe you have an insight that they're
unable to have. And recognizing that a
lot of times people are angry, but they
don't have the self-awareness to
understand what's happening. So, they're
getting frustrated, they're angry about
something, but they're not even sure why
or what they're angry with. Now,
as somebody who's had that happen to me,
where I'm like, "Why the hell am I
getting sharp all of a sudden?" I have
nothing but empathy and compassion for
whoever's going through that. So, again,
I'm not trying to trap them. I don't
want them to look bad. I'm going to help
them navigate their way out of this, and
I'm not trying to win, I'm not trying to
prove anything, I'm trying to
understand.
And if you go into it trying to
understand,
now the other person feels that. You can
pull you can hand that olive branch, or
you can say, "Hey, why don't we take a
minute,
go our separate ways, let's come back,
rediscuss this, and I'll try to see if I
can understand what I might have said
that upset you, or to understand why I'm
misreading you, or whatever." And if
that's sincere, and you're not just
trying to trick them, then I think you
will be shocked at how far that goes. I
use that in my marriage all the time. We
each do with each other. If the other
person is like getting agitated, instead
of pretending that they're not,
in the most gentle, loving,
reconciliatory way, we're trying to
figure out what happened. And over time,
especially when people see you do this,
and you're not trying to be like, "Ha ha
ha, I told you, I knew it, you're
pissed, you're being petty, whatever."
Then over time, people are able to slow
down, they realize you have good
intentions, which gives them the ability
to self-reflect, cuz it's very hard when
things are elevated like that, right?
So, when you're in fight-or-flight mode,
which is probably why they're getting
agitated,
blood is actually leaving the prefrontal
cortex, which is the seat of
higher-level cognition, which means
they're going to have a harder and
harder time the more agitated they get
if you're coming at them,
they're going to have a harder time
recognizing what's actually going on.
So, helping to diffuse the situation
through a desire to understand
and through compassion goes a really
long way.
But then don't just let people act like
they're
not
displaying aggression or frustration or
whatever cuz that's what I call
crazy-making.
There it is.
All right.
How do you deal with people who refuse
to accept they are wrong? They get
aggressive if you try to convince them
their opinion is wrong and confuse their
opinion with facts. Okay, so this is a
really tricky situation. And if you are
dealing with somebody who is just
hell-bent to be combative, then just
recognize you're never going to win. And
so trying to convince them
makes no sense. It is a fruitless moment
and
you are probably, if you're human, are
prone as they entrench themselves more
and more into their position, you more
and more want to show them that they're
wrong. Now, if a person is feeling
defensive, they're feeling attacked, the
odds of them having the sort of
emotional wherewithal to go,
"You know what? Actually, you're right."
Because most people build their
self-esteem around being right.
So, as they back themselves into this
position refusing to admit that they're
wrong. And in this instance, I'm
assuming they actually are wrong, which
by the way, it's entirely possible that
you're both sort of just arguing at each
other instead of actually trying to
understand each other, which might
really be the root of the problem is
that we have a two-way street problem
here. But let's just assume for a second
that they actually are just wrong
empirically. The The facts don't line
up.
I know about humans that the more
they're being defensive, the more they
feel attacked, the more they feel
attacked, I know that their self-esteem
is on the line here. This feels like an
attack on them as a person, not an
attack on their ideas. So, even though
for you, this is about just we're just
discussing facts here, for them, their
whole world view may be under attack and
they're not going to be able to
acknowledge that. So, if this is an
issue where you have to achieve common
ground and you can't just say,
you know, I've essentially I've tried
and walk away and save yourself that
aggravation. If there's some reason,
like this is a business discussion or
we're talking about raising how how
we're going to raise our kids or
whatever, where there's no way to just
agree to disagree and walk away, like we
actually have to come to a conclusion.
Then, when you're in that moment, asking
questions can be really powerful. So, if
somebody makes
an assertion, then just say,
"What's that assertion based on?" And
then if they're like they're giving you
something that's feelings, then what I
will do in a moment like that is I'll
say, "I just want to lay down some, you
know, base assumptions or parameters
that we can agree on." And then I'll
say, "Can we agree that neither of us
are experts in this field?"
Yes, we can agree on that. Okay. Does it
seem sensible for us to appeal to an
expert opinion on the subject? Yes, it
does. Can we mutually agree on who an
expert is? Now, if we can agree on who
an expert is, as defined as somebody
who's had success in that area three
times or more, then it's like, "Okay,
well, let's go see what the experts say
in this or let's get um multiple
experts. We'll pick three of five and
see if, you know, there's consensus on
the issue." Or if we're in a company, if
there's somebody else in that company
that's a recognized expert in that
field, what do they think? But some way
to lay essentially the groundwork for
how we're going to determine what is and
isn't accurate. Because what people end
up doing, as you very aptly pointed out,
is they have formed an opinion, which is
based on their life, their assumption,
maybe headlines they've heard, whatever,
they've taken on that
notion, that ideology, whatever it is
that we're talking about, and now
they've infused that with their sense of
self. And so, being able to tease that
all apart is very, very difficult. And
one of the only ways to get somebody to
reflect on that, rather than telling
them anything, is to ask them questions.
So, asking them why they believe
something, asking them how we're going
to determine what a fact is, who an
expert is, what we should be listening
to, not listening to. And by the way, in
that, if they continue to give
irrational answers, at least you'll be
able to figure out sort of where the
irrational answer lies. And if somebody
is just determined to be irrational, if
somebody is entrenched in their opinion,
and it becomes their identity is wrapped
up in this, at some point you really
have to understand that you're having
what I call a collision of values. And
the only way out of that is to try to
steel-man each other's arguments. And
so, if you can state their side very
clearly and succinctly, generously, with
warmth, like actually trying to
understand where they're coming from,
and that they can do the same for you,
now you at least can say, "Yes, you
understand my position
perfectly, and I understand your
position perfectly." Like you're each
acknowledging that the other person has
actually been able to articulate
generously your position. And so, it's
like, "Yes, I have There's no nuance
left. You completely understand it." But
now we still disagree.
Okay, now you've hit a collision of
values. Now there's no layer to go
beyond that. Now you just have to either
say, "Okay, well, there's no way for us
to come to an agreement on this because
we both see this whole situation very
differently.
We value different things in this
moment. And when you're there, when you
know that this is a collision of values,
one of you either has to adopt the other
person's values, or you have to walk
away. There won't be any coming to
a conclusion on that. And you know,
we're obviously living through
a point now where people are doing that
more and more. Algorithms are sort of
pushing people into these really siloed,
really like hardcore, ultra like
processed versions of any idea that's
like driving people farther and farther
apart. And the only way back is for
people to recognize that the other
person has value, that the other person
deserves compassion and warmth, and that
again, going back to my earlier answer,
if they're so dogmatic and so letting
their identity get wrapped up in that,
that's its own punishment and and is
pathology. And they will never be able
to see the world clearly and move
forward in a a functioning way. And so,
being somebody who is truly open-minded,
who is looking for the right answer as
determined by I have a goal,
what answer moves me towards that goal,
right? And so, that goal though is
that's part of that values, making sure
that we're actually aiming at the same
thing, which can be an important
question to ask. Where are we trying to
end up?
Because if you're both trying to end up
in the same place, it gets a lot easier.
But if you recognize we're actually both
trying to end up in different places,
then we know, okay,
at least we can acknowledge that we're
both trying to end up in different
places.
So,
again, this comes back to wanting to be
able to understand, wanting to be able
to articulate their side, not trying to
force them into meeting admitting that
they're wrong, which most people will
not
be able to do. They just won't have the
emotional wherewithal to pull that off.
And so, trying to get people to do that
is very, very
difficult.
It makes it about winning and losing,
and
you're triggering a natural human
tendency to defend. And so, you're just
not going to get what you want. So, I
would do everything I could to let go of
right and wrong and just focus on
understanding.
I know that's not very satisfying,
especially in a world where people want
to dunk on each other. That's part of
the problem.
I hope you guys are enjoying this
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Right, I'm a cashier at Walmart and I
encounter a lot of rude and obnoxious
customers. However, I know it is my duty
to treat them with respect, but it can
be difficult. Any tips on how to
approach trouble people while being
honest, straightforward, and genuine?
Yes.
So, this comes down to what you value in
the exchange.
I like Jordan Peterson's idea of tell
the truth or at least try not to lie.
Sometimes
there can be a truth that
we leave unsaid
because this is a momentary interaction
where I would say kindness is the higher
value than pointing out every flaw that
we see or every bit of obnoxious
behavior because at some point it just
spirals into madness to point out every
misstep that somebody is doing.
And so when I look at somebody that is
being obnoxious, being rude, my goal is
to shift their energy.
How can I get them back into a place
where they're feeling good, they're
feeling warmth, they are
in a place where they feel kind, right?
Cuz most people, it isn't that they are
incapable of kindness. And if they are,
like imagine how shitty that life would
be. Somebody who never experiences
kindness, joy, warmth, connection.
That would truly be its own hell.
So I'm not going to
worry about pointing out every obnoxious
thing that they're doing. And I would
play a game with myself of how much joy
can I spread.
And
in some ways
you are
leaving a truth unsaid, which is that
they're being unkind or obnoxious or
whatever.
But by trying to spread kindness, you're
not lying.
And
especially if you share that value with
me of wanting to just put as much good
vibes into the world as you can. And
look, I'm not perfect and there is no
doubt that sometimes people are just
like, "God damn. Like I just don't want
anything to do with it."
But that doesn't feel like me at my
best. Me at my best feels like, "All
right, cool. Can we switch this energy
around? Can we get them to soften, to
feel that human warmth and a bit of
connection?" And can I
I mean, with a smile, you will be
shocked how much you can change
somebody's demeanor. So, that's how I
would flip it. I would just see how much
joy can I spread even when people are
being problematic to me. Now, it doesn't
mean that I let people abuse me or
anything like that. I don't. I imagine
you guys can get a pretty good guess
about uh what I'm like. I don't let
people walk over me or be a dick to me
or whatever, but I find it far more
interesting to try to change somebody's
energy than to get them to go, "Yeah, I
am being a dick."
That's just not interesting to me.
Trying to get them to sort of confess
that they are the problem.
I'd much rather hold myself accountable
to like how much sort of emotional
jujitsu can I do here.
All right.
Next question.
How do I know if I'm being a difficult
person?
Well, the fact that you're asking the
question is already gives me a
tremendous amount of hope. And
ultimately, you're just going to have to
pick up on cues. So, look at how people
leave a an exchange with you. Are they
leaving feeling more upbeat? Is there a
positive energy between the two of you?
Um do you feel yourself getting agitated
or flustered a lot? Um cuz I don't think
people set out to be
difficult. I think what happens is their
insecurity gets triggered. They're they
feel like they're being attacked.
They're you know, like one of the most
just gnarly positions to be in is to
feel like you're supposed to think this
way and this is supposed to be your
stance. And you can't really defend it.
It makes you a little bit insecure. And
so, when people come after you and you
know that like you feel like you're
being outmatched intellectually. Oh god.
Like you just launch in with ad hominem
attacks and you make it personal and
you, you know, it's name-calling. It's,
"Oh, this person's an idiot." Whether
you say it out loud or internally. And
if you find yourself in that position,
feeling like that, feeling agitated,
feeling defensive, then odds are that
you are being difficult because
difficult isn't about, "I'm setting out
to be a jerk." It's, "Ooh, something has
triggered an insecurity in me
and now I'm not at my best. I'm not at
my most compassionate. I'm not at my
most open. I'm not at my most friendly.
I'm not trying to elevate other people.
I'm not trying to spread joy and warmth
and all of that, right? I'm defensive. I
feel like I'm, you know, in a sort of
intellectual boxing match. Maybe I'm
trying to win.
All of that stuff is
exactly what it feels like to be the
difficult person, right? That's what's
so fascinating about this is we all
think the other person is being
difficult. When in reality, there's
probably something that we could have
done differently to have that exchange
go in a completely different direction.
And instead of focusing on how difficult
that person is being, asking like how
could we do a bit of emotional jujitsu
in this moment and get the kind of
outcome that we want.
So, having that self-awareness,
understanding the body sensations that
you're getting, being able to interpret
them, and then ideally being able to
dial them back. So, this is really a a
the ability to build the self-awareness
around excuse me, around the emotions
that you're having. And uh there's a
book called How Emotions Are Made by
Lisa Feldman Barrett that goes into
great detail about how you can do that
and I highly recommend that book.
All right.
How do you deal with someone who when
losing an argument grabs at other topics
they've had issues with in the past and
brings those in to argue about instead
of finishing the current argument and
admitting they're wrong. Okay, so
interesting. If you want people to admit
that they're wrong, there're going to be
times there are going to be times. In
fact,
there are definitely times where
I am focused on explaining why I think
I'm right.
Now,
when I do that,
whoever I'm discussing with cuz they
know my stance, right? Don't worry about
being right, just try to find the right
answer. Now, what do you do when you're
not worried about being right, but you
really believe you have the right
answer? So, now you're in this pickle,
right? So, I'm not worried about them
admitting that they're wrong. If you
find yourself wanting somebody to admit
that they are wrong,
already the energy is in the wrong
place. So, now if you're trying to
explain to somebody why you're right
because it matters. Now, when it doesn't
matter, that's the time to just let that
[ __ ] go. But, if it matters, right?
Again, how we raise the kids, um
what should we do with our finances?
Who are
somebody we're working with, how they're
engaging, how we talk to our boss,
whatever. Things where it's like, okay,
the outcome of this thing actually does
have consequences, and so we have to see
this through. Okay, so first of all, if
I think that I'm right, I'm going to
present my case.
I'm going to be as succinct as I can.
I'm going to recognize that
communication is difficult, that I have
what I call base assumptions. So, what
I'm trying to do is get to the point
where we're being understood. So, we're
doing the steel man thing, right? So,
now I'm going to say, all right, I'm
going to try to make my explanation as
simple as I can because if you
understand it well, I should be able to
make it quite simple. So, if you find
that you're doing run-on sentences and,
you know, 4-minute
rants trying to get them on board, you
may not understand it clearly enough
yourself, so you may be speaking so that
you can be understood.
Sorry, so that you can understand
yourself rather than so that you can be
understood. And recognizing when you're
speaking so that you can understand is
very important. So, I'm going to state
it succinctly.
Then I'm going to ask them if they can
steel man my argument.
Now, if somebody is discussing this with
you in good faith, then they should be
able to generously present your argument
back to you. Now, if they can't, you'll
at least understand which part of it is
that they're missing. Now, once they can
steel man your argument and they can say
as articulately as you what your
position is, and then they say, "And I
still disagree, and I disagree for this
reason." Now, at least we know what
we're arguing about.
But the problem is when somebody's
bringing in a new topic or whatever,
people just let the like scope creep go.
They're like, maybe they're getting
confused as well. And so, in those
moments, what I do is I just take it on
myself and say,
"Look, I'm getting a little bit
confused, so I'm not sure where you're
going with that. There may be a
completely valid reason why you're
bringing that thing in. I don't yet
understand it. I'm worried that you may
not fully understand my argument, which
by the way may be because I'm not
explaining it well. So, if we could, I'm
just going to quickly state
my whole thesis, right? Super
succinctly, like in a sentence or two.
And if you can't do that, you don't
understand it well enough. So, I'm going
to give it to him in a sentence or two,
and I'm going to say,
"Can you repeat my stance back to me?
Just so that I know that we're on the
same page."
And that is one way to keep the argument
grounded
so that as they begin reaching for
something else, we call it out
generously, not like, "What the [ __ ]
Why are you bringing that up? That
doesn't have anything to" Right? That
posturing matters and forces everybody
into these more and more defensive
postures. So, with that generosity, the
true desire to understand, you're going
to take it and break it down piece by
piece, and that's the key. Let's just
take it one piece at a time. Here's my
thesis. This is why I say this. This is
why I think this is right. What's your
thesis? Okay, that's your thesis. That's
why you think that's right, right? We
have two conflicting views. So, now,
when we can both explain each other's
sides,
we can diffuse that situation.
We can stop the scope creep of the
argument. We can keep things just to the
facts. But if you're you're able to
state those things.
Okay, we're going somewhere that feels
like it's outside outside the scope of
this discussion, right? Reground it.
If you're not able to state your thesis,
then things just start going everywhere.
And what people are doing, and this is
this was a really powerful realization
for me, and unfortunately I forget who
said this, but
often times people speak not so that
they can be understood, but so that they
can understand. So, they are trying to
talk their way through a problem.
They're trying to figure it out in real
time, verbally processing out loud. And
so I'll actually say to people, are you
just processing verbally out loud right
now? Because I might be able to help,
but
when I think that you're trying to
present an argument, like you actually
believe this, you think this is true,
but you're sort of all over the map and
you're wandering around, I can't [ __ ]
follow you. And so that gets crazy
making. So, now I'll just say,
it seems like you're speaking so that
you can sort of think through this,
which I'm here for. Let me help you.
And giving them the space to like walk
through it, you'll be shocked at how
people will just be like, actually, you
know what? You're right. I can't say my
position in two sentences.
I am just talking through this so that I
can understand something. And now it's
like if you're generous in that moment
and are like, hey cool. Like, you know,
I'll give you the space, right? I'm not
going to interject. Like go until you
feel like you've really got it out. Or
ask the same, like, hey, I'm actually
not entirely sure what my position is,
and I just need for a second, I just
need a sounding board. If you can give
me like 3 minutes, I'll even time it. I
will legitimately do I will take my
phone out
and hit a timer so I don't get crazy
long. And just say, hey, I just need to
process through this. Man, when you do
that kind of framework conversation
around it, of like, here's what I think
my thesis is, or you know what? I just
need a minute to think through this, or
hey, this feels like scope creep. When
you start just stating this stuff, okay?
The scaffolding of the conversation,
You're actually call attention to it.
Man, it just lowers everybody's stress.
People don't feel backed into a corner.
They feel like they can really get to
something. And then don't be afraid to
hit the pause button and come back.
All right.
At the end of the day,
if you
almost play a game with yourself and
say, "I want to see if I can change the
energy of somebody who's being
difficult. I want to see if I can stay
compassionate, generous, kind, warm
through all of this." Don't get me
[ __ ] wrong. Sometimes it's really
hard, especially if it's your kids or
your parents or your spouse. Like, it
can be hard. I get it. But as we
try to be our best selves and present
ourselves in the way that's going to get
us what we want, which is a harmonious
relationship, which is the ending of the
difficulty, by looking at what we could
do to change that situation, you will be
shocked at how far that goes. Figuring
out how to point out the scaffolding of
a conversation is huge. Breaking things
down into small pieces,
being generous in articulating their
stance, recognizing a collision of
values and knowing, "Hey,
if we can't agree on where we're trying
to end up, if we can't agree on what the
value is, this is going to be a
fruitless conversation." And the sooner
you recognize that's where you're at and
that you need to actually talk about the
value or just go your separate ways, the
healthier all of your relationships are
going to be. And then just lead with
kindness and recognize that people that
think differently, that's important. And
we shouldn't want everybody to see the
world exactly the way that we see it.
And
if we can come at things from that
perspective of trying to understand
before we try to be understood, woo-wee,
you're going to find that a lot of that
difficulty just goes by the wayside.
And that's how I deal with difficult
people.
All right, guys.
Not only do I hope that adds value, I
really think if you actually do those
things, it will change your life. This
is one of the ways that I'm able to
navigate in the business world. You're
inevitably going to need to partner with
people that don't see the world the same
as you. You're going to have employees
that don't see the world the same as
you. And if you can't navigate this,
you're in real trouble. Same in my
marriage. There are inevitably going to
be things where you don't see the same.
And being able to navigate a situation
where sometimes you're going to be
convinced the other person is [ __ ]
with me. They are literally going out of
their way to try to be difficult. And
then you realize
it's actually not true. We just don't
see eye to eye on this issue. And I'm
sure from their shoes, I seem just as
difficult as they seem to me.
And when you point them thumbs back at
yourself and look at what you can do,
the world gets a whole lot better.
All right, that's it. Did that add
value? Be sure to subscribe. Until next
time, my friends. Be legendary. Take
care. Peace.
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