This Former Drug Dealer Knows What's Keeping You Stuck | Chris Cavallini on Conversations with Tom

Yeah, getting in shape, that was like one of my escapes like as a kid. That was like the thing that I did to like make myself feel significant. I mean, initially, I started working out because I didn't I mean, I wanted to be able to like kick people's asses who were talking [ __ ] to me, making me feel like [ __ ] And legitimately, I started going to the gym like once a week in eighth grade. I'd go in there and just like look at, you know, what the other guys and they were doing and I would do it and then like for someone like me that had a lot of like And again, at the time, there's not an awareness of this, but like I was an angry kid. I was a sad kid. I was the type of kid who wouldn't look you in the eye when we spoke because I didn't have any confidence. But like when I started working out and started like build my body, I started to like develop confidence and develop like all these other like positive things and, you know, obviously, taking it with me. And uh this is something that I've heavily prioritized and I I I truly believe that like fitness, we're talking about fitness, we're talking about like, you know, working out and the diet like more importantly. I firmly believe that, you know, our quality of life is in direct proportion to the quality of the food that we put in our mouth. And we know objectively that we are a byproduct of and, you know, the way we think, our standards are a byproduct of the people we surround ourselves with. Yeah, for sure. Right? When did you start getting onto that though? Cuz if you're a kid, you're angry, you're pissed, you're not looking people in the eye, you start lifting, I'm guessing that that doesn't come from a place of a realization about diet and [ __ ] It just comes from I want to be able to punch someone in the [ __ ] mouth. Yeah. Walk me through that. That to me is interesting. So, you and I responded to I I won't definitely was not an angry kid. I had a very now, looking back, it's very obvious that I had a wonderful and very easy childhood. Um but I was physically insecure in that there were people that were bigger than me and I could tell that they were they could manhandle me if they wanted to. And so, I had to be very cognizant, and I think guys are far more aware of this than girls. Like in every exchange that you have, even as a [ __ ] adult, you know somewhere in the back of your mind like is this could escalate. Now, it probably won't because of society and all that, but it could. And when you're a kid, it sometimes does. And so, you went and got stronger, and I sometimes wish that had been my response. My response was to get funny. Mhm. And there's no question that verbal ability is the cornerstone of my success, and so in some ways I'm very grateful for that, but also in some ways for the male mind, that that's still a fragile way to deal with things. And when I started lifting, it was partly a response to that. I would literally look at my wife and imagine her being raped. And I thought, imagine being a guy that couldn't stop that from happening. And that because I don't enjoy working out, that was the only way for me to like push through it. And I know people think that's really [ __ ] dark, and it is. Yeah, [ __ ] I get it. But at some point you have to do something, like whatever the need is you need, right? Whatever [ __ ] it takes. Exactly. And so, I'm I'm in the gym, I do not like it. Aesthetics was not enough to get me motivated. Longevity was not enough to get me motivated. It is today, but it it was not in my 20s. So, I had to put myself in this place of imagine the feeling you would have because when it's just me, I don't know, it's it's not as motivating. But to imagine that someone were trying to hurt my wife, and me not be able to stop it, like that was the motivation. When I was at my biggest, I used that every [ __ ] day. I get it, man. I get it. So, my childhood was anything but traditional. Um my mother had me when she was 16, all right? She had a lot of problems. She was a drug addict. My dad actually took off before I was even born. So, like he wasn't around. Um just because of the person and where my mother was at that time, um you know, I was taken out of her care multiple times early on, spent some time in foster care group homes. Ultimately, you know, just got pulled from her altogether. So, bouncing around like that, not having a father figure, and just, you know, being in the situation that I was uh exposed to, like, you develop certain traits and tendencies and patterns, and you think a certain way. And again, like, that was like the majority of my childhood. I was at that way? Like, what is it doing to you? And how much awareness did you have at the time? Zero. Of course, ab- zero. I mean, when it So, people sometimes, you know, throughout like my uh I was at at the age of 20s, 25, 26, that's when I started to like change my story and and stop like feeling sorry for myself and thinking that because of what happened, I used to think that because of all the things that I was uh exposed to, whether it was my childhood, the fact I mean, I was arrested 17 times prior to my 18th birthday. That's crazy. I mean, I was arrested another half dozen or so times after my 18th birthday, but like, I used to think that those factors and I mean, that would prevent me from ever being something that was important or significant or being someone that actually [ __ ] mattered. So, you know, I changed that story around 25, 26, but again, like, you know, when you're a kid and you're coming up, like, just looking back on it, like, there wasn't an awareness like understanding that I didn't have what I saw some friends of mine having. I didn't have like the the dinner at the table with the family. It was always very awkward for me if I was in a situation like that because I didn't really know quite how to act. And again, like, that might sound very silly to somebody, but at the time, it was a it was a real thing, and it just it it I always felt out of place in situations like that. And uh you know, I I I know what it feels like, Tom, to be in a position where, you know, you're being made fun of all the time because you're wearing the same clothes, same dirty clothes. And I also know what it feels like to have to steal dirty clothes out of the lost and found in school just so I had something new to wear. And again, like in my mind at the time I thought that by getting in shape, going in the gym, that could at least I'd have that. At least I you know, I could look physically better I suppose maybe start getting respect or you know, maybe have people look at me differently and not look down on me, which again, I felt was the case. I think in a lot of ways it may have been the case, but I definitely don't think it was as profound as I mean when that's all you're thinking about I mean it's that's what your reality is going to be. And again, like at the time I just I knew that I I was I was an angry kid. And again, when I started to get older into my teens and high school like now I kind of had like a an outlet where I could go out and I could show my ass and I could do really stupid [ __ ] and get in trouble, get arrested and gain significance. I could get something cool about being the kid that wasn't a afraid of the law? 1,000%. I mean it's not [ __ ] cool. It's actually the stupidest thing. Now I don't know man. So let here's the interesting thing that I find in your story. Because you and I are polar opposites of how we responded to adversity growing up, it is really interesting to there's no question you got yourself into trouble, but there's also no question that the reason that you kept doing that is it works. And there is something cool about somebody that's like [ __ ] it. Like I forget who said it, but they were saying what's the point of having [ __ ] you money if you never say [ __ ] you. And it's like what's the point of being strong if you never stand up for yourself. And I 1,000% this is not me saying the way that you did it makes sense and it was smart, it was really [ __ ] stupid and I know you've said that a million times. But at the same time I get how not showing fear to the very thing that everybody else is terrified of would actually get you a certain level of social cachet. And and it did. Like I'm I'm not going to sit here and dispute that. Like it definitely did. Um but again, that's short-term [ __ ] and that's that's attention that doesn't really matter. That's significance that doesn't matter. Thank you for asking that. So again, 17 times I was arrested before my 18th birthday. Eventually, the state of Massachusetts like got tired of my [ __ ] They I was a very familiar face. It's always the same, you know, like clerks and you know, police prosecutors you're seeing all the time. Ultimately, they came to the realization that very accurate realization that I wasn't uh learning. I mean, I was arrested for Again, it started off with like super minor, you know, underage drinking, um trespassing, uh possession of marijuana before they decriminalized it in Massachusetts. Um you know, like fighting, like bat- a battery with a dangerous weapon. So it started to kind of like battery with a dangerous weapon? We're starting to We're starting to elevate from underage drinking here. So it started to escalate a bit and eventually like they just again, they drew a line in the sand and they basically gave me an ultimatum and they said that uh I could either go to jail for 7 months Mhm. or join the military. And I opted to join the military, obviously. I mean, that that in a sense is one of the best decisions I've ever made and not for this, though? 2001 is when I graduated high school. Uh is this before September 11th? I was in boot camp during September 11th. Man, cuz would you have made the same decision if it was after 9/11 and you knew this is essentially eminent domain? Yes. Really? Yeah, that didn't happen. I'd have been [ __ ] conflicted. I was actually in boot camp when it happened. A- again, it's I wasn't like a normal kid. My I didn't think Like I was oddly I mean, I wasn't pumped up about what just happened in the state of our country, but I was pumped up to to be in the game. How hardcore are you lifting at this point? Um you know, again, it's all relative, right? Like at the time to what my standards were then, like pretty hardcore, right? I mean, again, there was really it it was just me getting in there, doing whatever, but I wasn't eating it. I was eating like [ __ ] I mean, during majority of like my high school years, I was I was very self-reliant. So, I was having to do a lot of my own cooking. And again, I I I was eating a like pretty much steadfast diet of uh rice and ketchup and angel angel hair pasta with no sauce. Legit, those were the two things I knew how to cook. That's amazing. Yeah, and again, like you know, when you're young, you can get away with that and still look a certain way. I could not. So, I've heard. Yeah, but uh you know, boot camp was obviously a big wake-up call for me, right? Like a kid who you know, again, like I was not a great kid, didn't have any didn't have any structure, didn't have a father figure, didn't have like authoritarian figure, didn't have any discipline. So, boot camp was basically exactly what someone like me needed. It began to teach me the importance of taking pride in the details, the importance break you or did you give in to it? Uh again, like I was very mentally weak at that point um in the sense that I would I would feel like things were personal. I would feel like the yelling and I mean, I got a lot of extra attention. I got a lot of extra attention because of my attitude, because I was physically fit. And again, I I there wasn't an awareness of of why they were doing what they're doing. It it really pissed me off when I would make my bed perfect, as good as I could. And I hated that I hated that drill. They would make Legitimately, they would like you'd sit there for 2 hours over and over and over over again, make your bed. And um you know, when everybody else was done, they'd come look at my bed, which would be perfect, and they would [ __ ] it up and then make me keep doing it. I would get so angry inside. I didn't, you know, like lash out or anything like that, but they could see it in my ever a time where you began to understand why they were doing what they were doing? Long after. really, really interesting. So, what experientially as it's happening, what do you think? These guys are just dicks? Are you asking like, why me? 100% I thought they were dicks. They were they were jealous that I looked the way that I did. Whatever weird [ __ ] weak narrative. Yeah. But again, like ultimately there's the the training is progressive. It gets to a point where they're not screaming at you and treating you like dog [ __ ] every second of every day and then you start to feel a little better. You start to you know, learn how to iron your uniform and your uniform looks sharper. You start to stand a little straighter and taller. You start to look people in the eye and it doesn't feel unnatural and that was a big deal for me. So, again like I was very fortunate to have served not just in the military, but I was a part of a very elite community. I was a Navy diver. So, after I went to boot camp, I went to some specialized training which is basically like a fallback in the event that I didn't make it through dive school. At the time, there's about a 70% attrition rate in dive school. 6 months training which is longer than actual boot camp. And you know, like academically, physically, mentally the the challenge that you face in that were much more profound and extensive than you know, that of normal boot camp. But by the time I got there, I was just in a different place mentally and although I still didn't like, you know, being yelled at, I still didn't like, you know, some of the the you know, people coming and just like screaming in my ear when I'm doing everything right. I was in a better place to deal with it and you know, ultimately being in that community serving with some of the most elite, you know, individuals of all the military it was a big deal for me. It it helped me grow up. It helped me learn how to conduct myself like a man. It it it taught me the importance of having high standards. And again, it just it it really taught me how to look at the world differently which the the big the I think the most profound breakthrough for me with my military career wasn't so much like the discipline, the structure, all these things that you know we're speaking about. It was the fact that ultimatum actually got me out of Boston which all of the not so great things and energy and people and environment and memories that had kind of shaped me into being the kid that I was and the reason I was thinking that way is cuz I was around all the [ __ ] And when I was removed out of that I started to look at the world a little different. I'm not saying I completely uh you know squared myself away because I most certainly did not, but it was the first time that I started to really kind of recognize that like environment plays a I mean dude, it plays a profound role in your entire [ __ ] quality of life. And the thing that is really sad is people will live their entire [ __ ] life not realizing that. Yeah, this this to me is my fundamental thesis in life is that who you think of as you is a construct. You've made it up. It's cobbled together from so many complicated things, not the least of which are like you said the memories that you have, the energy of the people that you're around, the momentum that you've created in your life of being the person who um is in trouble with the law that people turn to for an outrageous moment. If you're at a party and the cops show up, you know that people want to see how you're going to react and it would be such a deviation from who you see as yourself to not I had a similar experience. So when when I was growing up, like I said, my defense mechanism was humor. And the role that I played in my family was the peacemaker. So I learned to um be funny and my family loved it. I learned to be funny to diffuse a situation that I couldn't diffuse physically. But when I went to college because my brand of humor was always self-deprecating. Like I would make fun of myself before you could do it and so I could get out of anything. So if somebody wanted to fight or whatever, I would just make fun of myself and then there was nothing left to fight over. Yeah, exactly. And it was very effective strategy, but it did leave me feeling some kind of way about myself. Sure. And so, when I moved to LA, I think, "Hey, this is my chance to reinvent myself." And like number one on my list of reinventions was I wanted to take myself seriously. So, I said, "All right, I'm not going to make fun of myself anymore. I'm going to take myself seriously as an artist. I'm going to really study cuz I used to cheat in high school like a madman." And I'm going to do all my own work. I'm not going to cheat. Sink or swim. A or F. I'm doing everything myself. And so, it was like this real switch in my personality. That's a big deal. Big deal. And so, flash forward, I meet my the woman who ends up becoming my wife like 6 years later. And I meet her and I'm just being who I think of as myself. And I'm like, "Hey, I want you to come meet my family." And so, we went for Thanksgiving, flew back home, and she'd never seen me around my family. And all of a sudden, because the expectation is that I'm the funny guy, Mhm. I immediately snap back into it. Mhm. And I start cracking jokes every 2 seconds, and they're in hysterics, and my then girlfriend, now wife, is like, "Who the [ __ ] are you?" She's like, "What is happening?" Yeah. And she was like, "I really enjoy this, but it's so shocking." And she was like, "It came out of left field." And I can see how because I didn't intend to slide back into that role, but I'm seeing the same things. I'm back in my old bedroom. My family looks at me with that expectant look when there was like an opportunity for a joke. And so, it's like you know that they're sort of waiting for you to be that person. And it's God, what's that quote? I'm not who I think I am, I'm not who you think I am, I'm who I think you think I am. And you get that That's a real part of who you think of as yourself is what are people reflecting back to you. Yeah. Whether you are aware of it or not, whether you like it or not, the people around you, they dictate your mindset, and they essentially raise or lower your standards. And you are not in control of that. It's I mean, you could have conscious awareness of it, but the fact is, I mean, we are I mean, the energy, man, like it's it's it's contagious and it is going to affect us profoundly. And this is something that like I've I've I've continued to like evolve and become more consciously aware of it now. Like, dude, I'm I'm like borderline obsessed with just optimizing my environment to to to [ __ ] feel good. I mean, to my the majority of my life I would say to this point, you know, 36 years I've been on this planet, the majority of my life I haven't felt good. I can honestly sit here and tell you that. And now like I I know what it it's like to feel good. I know what it feels like to be happy and I want to preserve and protect and just basically do everything in my power, which is a lot, to again like essentially dictate my own happiness by being mindful of who and what I surround myself with. Right. You have an opportunity right now to set a lot of people free. I want to know how did you gain self-awareness? Cuz you're somebody who didn't have it. You didn't know why you were angry or why you were doing the things you were doing or even understand why these guys are yelling in your ear and making you redo your bed and all that. But you do understand it now. So, when did that like what was the first glimmer of it? And then how did you develop it fully? Yeah. So, just building up building up to that, I ended up getting out of the military prematurely. I was 23. Um again, I went from having structure, discipline, routine, order in my life to one day to the next just no longer having it anymore. I made the decision to get out. Had I stayed in, I would have had to leave uh Jacksonville, Florida where I was stationed at the time and I had liked Jacksonville. And I had I had developed a positive association with Jacksonville and I guess I had like a again, at the time I'm not aware of it, but looking back on it, I'm I'm thinking that the I didn't want to go to a place where I felt shitty again. So, I stayed in Jacksonville, got out of the military, ended up working in a strip club, despised that and working I mean, look, you most young guys would like thrive at the opportunity to work in a strip club. I didn't like who I was when I was in there. There was just this the human beings that were coming in there, the people that worked there, they just made me feel less good about myself. They again lowered my standards. I was in a position where I was drinking at work to make the, you know, the the shifts more tolerable, getting in fights with the customers, messing with the girls. I ultimately got to a point where I despised working in a strip club so much after 2 years, I quit to become a drug dealer. Okay? Spent the next 7 years as a drug dealer, living my life the legit polar opposite of how I'm living it now. And again, I was just carefree, partying 5 nights a week, like all the cash I was making. And again, at the time to my standards then, it was a lot of money proportion to what my bills were. Um but again, like I was literally I took that what I call the first job mentality where, you know, we're 15, we get a $100 paycheck, we know that we have like that $100 between the Friday you get paid and the next Friday spent. Again, all the money that I'd come in, I'm spending it just as quick. And eventually it got to a point, man, where I just I started like getting older, I started seeing some other drug dealer friends at the time, you know, getting in trouble, getting sent to prison. And I I started to really recognize what ultimately was in my future. And Do you remember though that cuz here's what I want to get to. So you and I both worked with a lot of ex-convicts. Yeah. And one of the things you start to realize is, okay, your frame of reference is completely [ __ ] up. Mhm. You're not seeing the world the way that I see it. Mhm. The world's the same for both of us. Mhm. But we're not seeing it the same, which means we're moving differently, we're making different choices. My choices are leading me to generate wealth in my life, to create stability, um functioning relationships, and yours is not. So you begin to go, okay, how do I make them aware of that? Mhm. Because until they can self-assess, Mhm. until they can begin to process, this makes sense, this doesn't, this feels good. Even if it's just that, in fact, that's probably where we should focus. This doesn't feel good. I don't like the way this person makes me feel, or I want to feel this way, or whatever. But if they don't recognize that mechanism, they're stuck. So, what I'm hoping you can articulate is like what were those first like I saw my friend, he was dealing drugs, and he was just a dick to the person he was selling to, and I thought, "Huh, that's a reflection of me." Like how did that process begin to happen? Yeah, so the thing that made me want to like just get out and start going a different path is I started to feel that if I didn't, I would go back to being looked upon, being looked down upon as that kid that I was growing up, and that really freaked me the [ __ ] out. I wasn't afraid to go to prison. I wasn't afraid of getting locked up. I was afraid of being looked down upon and going back to being this like insignificant just human that really nobody gave a [ __ ] about. So, I went to someone that I respected, and I basically just put my cards on the table, and I told him everything, and I said, "Listen, I I want better for myself. I have no [ __ ] idea what to do or where to start." It's like, "Is there anything that you can put me on to?" Somebody who um, you know, I looked up to at the time and was very successful individual, and he put me on to two things. He said that I needed to start reading everything I could get my hands on related to becoming a better human being, Smart. and then I needed to start surrounding myself with people who were better than me. So, the answer to your question is personal development, right? And it's I talk about this all the time now. Like we hear it all the time, and people are watching this, and people are reading these books, or listening to podcasts, or doing all these things, but I don't think they fully recognize why they're doing it. And it's very important that you do. Purpose of personal development is not necessarily to learn this thing about like this fact from this person is doing this this certain way. It's to learn how to think different. And that is a continuous process. It's a It's an ongoing like evolution. So, like the way that I was able to, you know, start recognize these things and there's still things that I'm recognizing about myself or about my past in cuz I mean I'm personal development is what took me from, you know, being a drug dealer to, you know, being a you know, been featured in Forbes half a dozen times, grew an eight-figure company with legitimately a team of convicted felons, ex-convicts, and former drug addicts. Like personal development is essentially it's it's like it's like the water that, you know, nourishes the seed and allows it to grow and allows it to prosper. And we have to stay consistent with it and understand why we're doing it. Not because we're looking for the pump up, not because we're looking for the short-term fix or like that short-term answer. And that's the thing, like a lot of people watch [ __ ] like this, they listen to [ __ ] like this, they read these books and then they [ __ ] do nothing with it. It's legitimately like like masturbating and then like not getting the payoff. The payoff is on the other end of the execution. So, you got to do [ __ ] You got to do [ __ ] you got to like take chances and like, you know, when you learn to think differently, you're essentially like understanding that like you're never going to feel ready or you're never going to be like feel good enough, feel smart enough to have have the confidence to know that, you know, what? You're going to step up to the edge of the cliff without a parachute. You're going to be afraid, but it's okay cuz you're going to step off and you know you're going to figure [ __ ] out on the way down. Yeah, I think there's two things that really [ __ ] people up. Number one is they're coming up to the edge of the cliff and they don't believe they can figure it out on the way down. And so, their whole life is about stay away from the edge of the cliff. Yep. And I think so, I call that the only belief that matters. The only belief that matters is that I don't need you to believe that you're exceptional, right? You're hopelessly average. Like that the maybe the great realization of my life is that I'm hopelessly average, but I can improve. And once I allowed myself to believe that I could get better as a function simply of being a human. Not that there was something special about me, not that I was better than anybody else because that's a really terrifyingly fragile place to be. It's like valuing yourself for being smart. It's like you're going to encounter somebody that's so much better than you that you're just going to be like completely [ __ ] shut down. And so I thought okay, I'm hopelessly average, got it. Now if the the most average person ever has the ability to grow and get better and I'm the most average person ever then I have the ability to grow and get better. Cool. So now I have the only belief that matters because now I'm going to put energy into improvement. The other thing is people don't want [ __ ] Like this is the big frustration of my life and the one thing that and this really really bothers me to like a deep and fundamental level and if if I were to take what is it sodium pentothal, the truth serum, if I were to take that the thing that you would see is really lurking around in my soul is I secretly want to crack the code for being able to want it for other people. Like to find some way to like get them to want for their own success the way that I want for their success because once you want it and you believe your energies will be rewarded then you just you [ __ ] take the steps, you do the things you need to do. But if you believe you can get better but don't want it or you want it but don't believe you can get better. Like either one is sort of this you're going to shut down at some point. And it's interesting to me. Do you remember like what the first part of your personal development, whether it was the first book or just the first idea that really resonated with you? I do. The the thing that that ultimately changed my life almost on the spot and essentially laid the foundation for, you know, my future at the time was you know, back then this was like around 2009 2010 I started with the personal development and back then again there wasn't as many resources social media wasn't was what it is now. There wasn't shows like this. There wasn't all the podcast. So there was YouTube and there was books and as a drug dealer I had a tremendous amount of free time on my hands as you can imagine start reading a lot of books watched every minute of content that Tony Robbins had on YouTube and part of his thesis you know, back then to this day is you know, if you want to be successful look at someone who's doing it whatever model what they're doing. Another thing that he talks about is how when he was at some very low points of his life and you know, couldn't you know, figure out how he was going to pay his bills whatever he went and he helped someone else who needed help more than him. So okay, I'm like okay, Tony Robbins. You're saying that if I want to be successful model someone successful. Okay, I'm going to model you and you're also saying that giving back and and contribution and philanthropy is the key board. Whatever found an outlet an opportunity at some local church to serve the homeless and again I I go into this not because I really care about helping the homeless not because I really care about giving back and again this is a very strange thing because I've been homeless at multiple points in my life. So one would think that would resonate with me. It didn't. I went there for one reason and one reason only because this guy on this YouTube video said that this was going to help me change my life. And Tom he wasn't wrong because within the first 10 minutes of me being at that church I I felt something that I'd never experienced and you know, the 27 years that I'd been alive to that point. I was overwhelmed with just deep feelings of gratitude pride perspective and purpose and right there I realized that I needed to figure out some way to where as I could experience those feelings all of the [ __ ] time because I was hooked. Yeah, it's super weird. I it's the one part of my message where I always feel cheesy talking about it. But there is something hardwired in this social animal where service really makes a difference from a neurochemical perspective and I'm really trying to get people to understand the punchline of life is neurochemistry. So it isn't success as it's traditionally defined. It's not money. It's not fame. It's not accolades because I can give you all of that and there was like a rash of telomeres of like ultra successful people committing suicide. Was it Kate Spade I think who was a billionaire? She committed suicide. It was like this whole rash and it was like you can give people all the money in the world. The famous Jim Carrey quote, I hope everybody gets as rich and famous as they want to be so they can realize it's not the answer. But it's like okay, well then define what is the question? And the question is what makes life worth living? And the answer is how do you feel about yourself when you're by yourself? Now the way that that's constructed is super [ __ ] complicated and has a lot to do with what do you value? What are intrinsic drivers? Because I think there are universal drivers that are hardwired into the human animal and one of them is is purpose. One of them is service. It's having meaning in your life and knowing why you're doing what you're doing. And getting people to focus on that in the midst of the chase, right? So I lost eight and a half years is about the real number. I usually round it to 10, but I lost roughly eight and a half years of my life chasing money. Yeah. And it was an all-out chase. I hated my life, but I showed up every day and I was like I'm going to [ __ ] grind it out. I'm going to stick it out. Like I've got the discipline to see this through and finally it just was so horrendous like you when you were um I don't know if you were bouncing, but when you were working at the strip club and you're like I [ __ ] hate this so much, I'd rather be a drug dealer. You know, it's like What were you doing, by the way? I was doing a combination of bouncing, bar backing, cleaning the vomit off the floor in the bathroom. You name it, I did it, but I did it with purpose. I did it better than anybody else around me. I mean, that was something that I I kind of took with me from the military in regards to what I was doing, whether I liked it or not. I wanted to be the best because I wanted to stand out. I I didn't want to look be looked down upon like I was. That's actually really interesting. I always tell people, so that we're living in a weird time where people think interning for free is bad, and that you're somehow being taken advantage of. And what I really want people to understand is, going back to your point about modeling, find the person who's living your ideal life, and go and tell them that you work for them for free. But when you're there, [ __ ] nothing is beneath you. Do everything like it was your Mona Lisa. Like, go [ __ ] crazy to do things to the level of artistry. So even if you're cleaning vomit off the floor, and I remember one time back at Quest, cuz I I'm I a huge believer that you have to lead by example. So you can never ask somebody to do something you wouldn't do yourself. And one day the toilet overflowed, and there was actual [ __ ] on the floor. And the you could tell the janitor was like, "Oh, [ __ ] man. I don't know if I want to do this." And I said, "No, no, no, let me do it." Yeah. And so I cleaned up the [ __ ] and they're like, "Why are you doing that?" And I said, "Cuz I want you guys to see for real, not like that I talk about it, that there's literally nothing that I won't do. So that when I come to you with aggression, and I'm like, I need you to [ __ ] take care of this, like, what is going on, that you know I'll take the worst job and make it fun. I will pick up [ __ ] when it is on the floor, like, whatever it takes." Yeah. But that is not something I believe were saying about like giving back and contribution, and like that, you know, universal like driving factor of like feeling good. So I think a lot of people just, again, like me, I didn't value it. I was only doing it because I, again, watched this video from this guy, and I was just, man, I was just looking for a way out, man, right? So, I think people that are not getting excited about it, they're just like, "Ah, it's just kind of not my thing, whatever." Like, understand it's not necessarily just about you going and serving and helping other people. Like, do it because you're selfish. Do it because arguably, you will actually benefit more than the people that you are helping. And I know that might sound kind of [ __ ] up, but we It is very, very important that we understand that like, I think the difference between people, Tom, is obviously our standards. But, we don't just like come out of our mom's vaginas with like, "Okay, this person has low standards. A doctor is kind of like separating or this person middle saying this person is going to crush it in life." Like, our standards are a reflection of the actions that we take or fail to take. And a lot of times, the actions that we take that, you know, move our life forward are a result of us feeling good enough to do that. And we're not always going to feel great, but honestly, like, in order to get yourself up and get yourself moving, like, you're not just going to get up and [ __ ] feel good, man. You have to take action. It's a process. Through your physical fitness, through your mental fitness, through your contribution. Those three things, I mean, those are the three things that have allowed me to create the life that I have for myself. And I've, you know, taken that and And again, this was wasn't a process of a specific strategic process that I followed. It's just kind of like how uh the cookie crumbled, so to speak. But then, you know, when I was able to look back on it and kind of piece it together, I was able to kind of regimen regimen it. I was able to systematize it. And, you know, I legitimately have those three elements in place at my company. Every team member at my company is responsible for personal development, mandatorily, 1 hour per day. Do you tell them like what they should be doing? Yes, we have the building wired with uh with speakers. So, again, like, it kind of uh has that accountability factor there where one hour day, they play whatever the it's it's it's a month out. They have like a personal development calendar. And when personal development's on, like there is no talking. It's like church. They're working and they're listening and they're getting better. I also pay my team to do to physical training twice a week early in the morning. I have a trainer come in and they do like a high-intensity, like almost a CrossFit style workout outside hottest [ __ ] coldest [ __ ] whatever. The the hotter the better, the colder the better. It's another opportunity to make it that much more uncomfortable. Like I'm paying them to do that because I recognize that through fitness and through like doing really hard things, like that is how we develop confidence. That is how we earn the right to feel good about ourselves. And I also pay them to do community service. Every single week as a team, we go out in the community together and, you know, there's a number of things where I I have a company called Nutrition Solutions. We do healthy uh meal prep for people. And, you know, either we're out in the community feeding the homeless, donating to less privileged kids, or legitimately Tom, just going out in the local community and cleaning up the streets. And the reason I'm willing to invest in that, the reason I'm willing to pay these people to do that, isn't so I can like glorify it on a show like this or like post it all over social media to, you know, like try to get that like stroke, pat on the back. It's because I know that without question by doing those things, as individuals, they become better people, which in turn makes us get better as a team and ultimately allows us to grow, prosper, and [ __ ] dominate as a company. How do you think about culture? So, you and I both hired ex-convicts. Mhm. Um it's You said in an interview one time and I this really resonated. It doesn't always work out. Like people want that to be a Pollyanna story and the reality is it's [ __ ] rad and it felt really cool and I loved it the most. But, for a lot of people, they just didn't They weren't able to get their [ __ ] together, and I wasn't the person that I want to be. I mean, ultimately, like I said, I want to be able to want it for people. I want to be able to crack that code, and like sit somebody down in front of a, you know, a 3-minute video where I just cut straight to the, you know, their soul, and the world [ __ ] opens up, and they do it. But, it as of yet in my life, I'm not capable of that. So, it became this really fascinating thing of on one hand, I'd get people who would come grown [ __ ] men, like teardrop tattoos, like like hard [ __ ] And they would come, break down in tears, and be like, "You care more about my future than my own mother." Okay? So, I had some of those. But, then I also had people stealing from me, and it was like, you know, [ __ ] super shifty, and really uncomfortable, and you have to [ __ ] get rid of them. So, it's like, I wouldn't say it's like some magical pool of people to pull from, and yet, it spoke to my soul in a way that is hard to explain. So, how do you think about culture? Why do you give opportunities to people that are probably a little behind your average potential employee? You know, I I just feel with I mean, I was given a second chance. I mean, I was given multiple second chances, but 3 years ago, I was arrested for crimes that I'd committed 3 years prior. So, one day, I come home. Again, I'm at a very different point in my life. I'd walked away from my previous life. Things are going okay for me, you know, with the company. Again, I was in a radically different place, but at the time, to my standards, and I was I get two detectives at my doorstep, serving me on a warrant for crimes committed 3 years prior. I got set up. And I went through an extensive legal process. It was about a 4-month process. My bail was half a for a dollars, to give you some perspective. They weren't [ __ ] around and they wanted me to they wanted me to snitch. I respectfully declined. I just couldn't I couldn't imagine destroying somebody else's life because I wasn't willing to be held accountable for decisions that I made. I I I legitimately had just got myself to the point where I was like, "Okay, you know what? I'd rather sit in a prison cell for however many years and actually maintain my dignity than be free and know that I was too much of a [ __ ] to take responsibility for my actions." So, they don't like when you don't cooperate. The The story about how the legal stuff shakes down, we will get to, but that is so [ __ ] interesting. I need to stop you for a second. So, the building the identity of somebody who would rather deal with their own consequences than be a [ __ ] and rat somebody out. How do you get to that point? When When So, you start doing Tony Robbins, you start building a sense of self, you start I know Tony talks a lot about identity drives behavior, so I'm guessing identity is something that's on your radar. How do you put your identity together? How do you think of yourself now? Like, are there words that you use? Like, don't be a [ __ ] or Yeah, like give me give me some of those, no matter how Yeah, so so offensive some people may find them. Yeah, I mean, listen, like whatever we all communicate differently, right? We all Whatever it takes. That's what you said at the beginning of this conversation and like at the time, I mean, look, I had made a lot of progress personally, professionally, mentally, financially, um you know, and I just realized that you know what? Like, I did what I did for a lot of [ __ ] years and this is the direct This is the consequence and I, you know, was in a position where my bail was half a million dollars and they were trying to make an example out of me, right? I I was selling steroids. Again, I'm not trying to minimize what I did, but I mean like there are legitimately like rapists and people who molest children that get lesser bail than that. But uh I was able to you know bail out. I was able to I didn't have half a million dollars. You pay 10% of that, you get out. That money's gone. That's everything I had. And then wanted they wanted legitimately the deal the offer is 24 months in prison. And I fought it, man. I mean I went all in and I I just legitimately thought that But how do you get an identity that that lets you do that? That's so [ __ ] crazy. it as like being a [ __ ] coward. I like I looked at it as are some of the rules that you live by now like today? I'm assuming it was the same thing that led you to that. So don't be a coward. What else? you have to take responsibility over everything. The good, the bad, everything. I mean whether like if it's in whether it's it's it's a something you've created or something that just affects you in any way shape or form, taking responsibility is like the ultimate superpower. And that's what it was. Um I felt that I needed to take respons- And and I and I had essentially taken responsibility over, you know, my future back then by again like making the conscious decision to draw a line in the sand and start creating a different life for myself, you know. Did you say that like today is a new day? I am I'm now crossing some sort of metaphorical threshold. Yeah, I I I I knew what was happening. I knew that it was like a a I mean like I remember when I was when I started my company when I was allowed or at a point where I was capable of paying myself $500 a week. I felt like the [ __ ] man at that point because that was the first time I'd ever made that much money in a official legitimate legal capacity. you created. Yeah, it felt [ __ ] good. Now I also realized that I had a [ __ ] ton of work to do. I mean I was dealing with all of the stress and the chaos and like the you know the crushes your soul when you're starting a business and you're trying to figure it out. But again, like I I felt at least I was doing something that I could be proud of. Even if I wasn't making a lot of money. Even if I was failing, which I was I did a a considerable amount of failing the first several years. But again, like I just you know, I just kept pushing and I just kept fighting and it was it taking responsibility was again the thing that basically allowed me to have the courage to step away from my former life, which that's a tough thing to do, man. Most people don't do that on their own terms. They do that because they end up getting in trouble. I mean, of course I ended up getting in trouble, but I had already walked away 3 years prior. Right. So like you know, taking responsibility I mean core value of my company is extreme ownership. It's basically taking responsibility on steroids. I just didn't want to be a hypocrite, man. I I I I knew that I had to be a man. I knew I had to face this and honestly What does it mean to be a man? Define that for me. To be a man I mean what does matter what gender you are. Just to be someone who operates with integrity, honor, and always does the right [ __ ] thing even when it doesn't feel good. Mhm. Yeah, I love that. It's interesting to me how important it is to define who you are, what you stand for, what you're willing to do, but not a lot of people get tested. So what I love about your story is that you got tested. Like that [ __ ] is real. To not take the deal means you're going to face a much more exaggerated indemnity. Yeah, because they're like, "Well, [ __ ] you. You made us do all of this. Now we have to like the money, the manpower. Yeah. So like you really put your money where your mouth is. And and not only that, Tom, I didn't deny what they said I was going to do. Mhm. That is [ __ ] unheard of. Like the charges against me I didn't deny it. And again, against my attorney's advice cuz that's you don't do that. Right. But I honestly I like I I had just I'd felt so different when I had walked away from being a drug dealer. Like I felt good about no longer having to like look over my shoulder, have that like near paralyzing anxiety of like you know, when are they going to come knocking on my door? When is the bottom going to fall out of this [ __ ] thing? When am I going to be sent to prison? All these things and I I I literally thought that I there's no way I could go into a courtroom and expect a judge or just a you know, the opposing counsel to believe that the one or two times that I had uh like you know, that I got set up. I actually got set up three times. That was the only time that I'd ever This is what I did and I said I said it to the cops. I was like I did this for a lot of years. I was this person. But I'm not anymore. And they knew they knew they obviously looked at my life now and seen the the the changes that I had made. But again, like they're just they're they're there. It's it's a game. I mean, that's what the legal system is in in in this uh capacity and nobody it was my actions that brought me into that situation. And that process, man, it it took a lot it took a lot out of my man, it took a lot of years off my life. It took all the money I had and then some. But I had to fight, man. I I had about, you know, maybe 10 or 11 employees at the time and when you're that small of an organization, you're it's a lot more intimate, right? Like you have a lot more personal relationships. You know about these people, you know about their families, you know about the the responsibilities they have. And although I knew I'd be okay if I got sent to prison and I kind of you know, if I if I get sent to prison, I'll just this will be part of my story and I'll come out and da da da da. I I knew I had to fight. I couldn't make this deal. I couldn't just lay down because had I done that, I'd be letting my team down. I'd be putting them in a position where they'd be out of work. They wouldn't be able to you know, have income to support their family and and and take care of their responsibilities. So, that was kind of, you know, my driving force to to to keep fighting and, you know, it was about a 4-month process. And in an just shocking turn of events, I go in the day to be sentenced. The uh the judge had uh reviewed my mitigation. I had 100 people that showed up to the courtroom to support me. It's a big deal, man. It's a big [ __ ] deal. Just thinking about it right now makes me a little emotional. Like I was there walking in not knowing if I'd be walking out on my own free will. Mhm. And uh the judge asked to address me in the courtroom. And uh she basically said that she had reviewed my mitigation. She had read the uh the the character testimonies. She was familiar with who I was and the work that I'd done in the community. And she told me at my sentencing that I should be proud of myself for what I've have been doing in the world. And she told me that the purpose of prison is rehabilitation. And that she couldn't responsibly send me to prison because she felt that I had already done that on my own. So, I got a second chance that day. I was let off with probation, which was like being sent to Disney World, an all-expensive expenses-paid trip compared to what the outcome could have been. And from that day forward, man, that is when I decided that I needed to pay it forward to the universe for this this opportunity, this gift that I was given that most people would never get. And I needed to do everything in my power to get the very most out of every single second of every single day. And part of that would be the responsibility that I chose to take on to help people that come from situations that look like mine, that come from situations that were worse than mine. Mhm. Because I figured it out, man. And statistically speaking, the overwhelming majority of people do not. I figured it out, and I wanted to basically do my part and I from that point dedicated my life to helping other people basically bridge the gap between where they are and where they want to be. And that's not just with people who, you know, have been in prison, done time, come from, you know, broken homes, been abused. It's just It's It's It's anybody. But my work with people who've been in jail and addicts and people who walked, you know, the the the road that I did, I knew that I could utilize my company, that platform that I had already, and I could immediately begin to basically practice what it is I was preaching and and and help people in an intimate capacity. And it was something that wasn't okay, from this point forward we're going to have this. It was kind of something that organically happened. I started attracting these people. And then from there it was something that I realized, well, you know what? Like we got something here. You know, the beginning of this like part of the conversation you mentioned that you saw an interview where I said, you know, it it doesn't always work out. If I were to sit here and say, oh, it doesn't always work out, I mean, that would be an extremely exaggerated statement. The fact is it doesn't work out a hell of a lot more times than it does. But the times that it does, Tom, that feeling, that sense of accomplishment, knowing that you have directly contributed to basically helping someone become a better human being, given someone an opportunity they never would have been able to get on their own because their record and all this, and giving them the ability to learn how to just become a better human being and provide a better life for themselves and their family. There is nothing, no feeling that comes close to that. And I'll tell you like for every 10 people three of them work out. I don't look at it as oh well, you know, I seven losses. I look at it like I'm batting 300. That's a big [ __ ] difference, man. You're batting 300, that's good enough for the Hall of Fame. And we go with that. Yeah. No, I I totally get that. Talk me through your interview process. How do you interview? What are you looking for? Because that's a obviously you're pulling from a high-risk population. So, what's that process? Yeah, so obviously once this became like a little more public information, I had a couple different news media outlets that had me on to talk about this. So, we obviously were opened up a little more and we had a little more activity. So, we had people applying. So, we had to tighten up and and regiment the recruiting process. But, whether it's you know, someone who is coming to us that has a record, that was a former addict, used to be homeless, whatever, or just someone who's just coming that, you know, was just lived a normal life. Like we're looking the only two things that you really need to work at Nutrition Solutions is you need to have a good attitude and you need to be willing to work hard. As it pertains to convicts and people who have done time convicted felons and such the only thing we're looking for in that aspect is have they taken responsibility? Because it's we know going into the interview, right? Like it's it's part of the like the initial process, paperwork, background checks. So, like when they're asked about it if there is any like sort of just indication, oh well, you know, I was in this situation and this other person and I just was I was in the car. Like dude, like sorry. And then we'll coach them up. We'll tell them like look, that's you know, I don't do those interviews anymore, but my team is trained. They know we're we're like have they owned it, but if they can without hesitation, without flinching, look you in the eye and say, "Here's what happened. This was my situation at the time. This was the position I was in. I made some very bad decisions, but I'm here today committed to do whatever I need to do for as long as I need to do it to create a better life for myself and my family. And it is honestly that simple. Unfortunately, most people think that their past defines them. I mean, I was one of those people for the majority of my life. They think because this blemish, no matter how bad it is, that that defines their current reality and essentially dictates their future. And they try to avoid it. They try to, you know, pretend like it doesn't happen. And when it comes up, they get super uncomfortable. Failing to realize the best thing they could do was what you used to do when you were a kid. You you make fun of yourself. Like you just [ __ ] say it. You put it out there before anybody else has a chance to. And then it goes from a point where people look down on you to people actually respect the [ __ ] out of you. And that was a thing that I was so afraid of for the longest time. It's like, "Shit, like I'm I'm trying to start, you know, this business. And how are people going to take me seriously?" And I'm like trying to act like I was legit. And it wasn't until I [ __ ] just put it out there, man. And it was hard. But then once I did that, the legitimate then total opposite of what I thought was going to happen happened. I gained respect instead of lost it. Yeah, it's so interesting. Like when you own who you are, then it's people are going to pick up on your vibe. They're going to respond the way that you respond. It's interesting how you can really set the tone for that kind of stuff. Yeah. We had a similar reaction. So when we started telling people, well, we technically put word out on the street, as they say. So, one of our earliest employees was a kid that grew up on the streets. And we told him, hey, like, look, man, my whole philosophy in life, it doesn't matter who you are, matters who you want to become and the price you're willing to pay to get there. So, if you have friends that are [ __ ] convicts, I don't give a [ __ ] Cuz he was like, oh, I've had a lot of friends that that have, you know, been to jail or in the in gangs, whatever, what do you think? Cuz we were like, [ __ ] we have to hire, man. We got to hire anybody. Yeah. And so, I was like, yeah, I don't give a [ __ ] Like, bring him in. Cuz my main thing was like, look, if you want to build a company, let me tell you something you have to get real [ __ ] good at. So, for all the like people out there that are want to be entrepreneurs, you've got to get to the point where you can look across the table at somebody and figure out who the [ __ ] they are. And here's the truth, you're going to suck at it. I sucked at it for sure. But you've got to be a little bit better than chance. Mhm. And once you get a little bit better than chance, then you can start to build something, you can create momentum. And I remember there was this one time, we were growing so fast, dude. So, you'll get this because you're in a similar space. We grew by 57,000% in our first 3 years alone. That was in manufacturing. So, now you're one, we're in Compton. We're hiring as fast as we can conceivably hire. Yeah. And we're having like when once we said that we'd hire convicts, like we had people lined up around the building. Mhm. And it was to to hire people that fast, you're we had to find a way to interview multiple people at the same time. And it was getting so weird, and I'm super curious to know if you had the same thing. So, keep in mind, I'm small compared to you. Yeah. So, I have these thug-ass [ __ ] coming in to interview. They've got the teardrop tattoos, the [ __ ] shaved head, tats crawling up their neck, on the face, like the whole [ __ ] nine. And in no way, shape, or form can I show weakness. So, I have to project Yeah. con- confidence doesn't cover it. [ __ ] strength, aggression, like the whole nine. So, the this becomes like this super weird phase in my life where people that know me now that have seen me on camera stuff, they they would not believe like how weird those environments were. And my whole thing was I have to burrow inside your soul. So, what I was saying at the beginning, I in 3 minutes. So, my goal I would come into every interview thinking, this is my chance. This may be the first and only time this person ever encounters a growth mindset. Mhm. So, one they're going to see you can't back me down. I can't be cowed. So, I'm going to whatever level of aggression you bring, I'm going to match or I'm going to exceed. Mhm. And then on top of that, you're going to know by the end of this [ __ ] interview, I want you to win. I want you to win. I want to create an environment where you can come in and I'm going to ask you to [ __ ] break yourself in half to improve your life, but I'm going to give you the platform to do that. So, we had these people coming in like [ __ ] three at a time, five at a time. And so, I'm having to develop shorthand and I finally I come up with this magic genie question. So, hey, I know it looks like a bottle of water. That was always my thing. It looks like a bottle of water, but it's really a genie lamp. Mhm. In a minute, a magic genie is going to appear. They're going to grant you one wish and one wish only. You can't ask for more wishes. It's got to be something just for you. What do you want? Like can't cure cancer, bring somebody back from the dead. Like what the [ __ ] do you want? And everyone said a million dollars. It was like this whole thing was super [ __ ] surreal to me that they all said that. But like getting to the point like, what's your dream? And realizing they didn't have a [ __ ] dream. Like they'd never thought beyond like I want a job, which is what they all first told me. I want a job. That's [ __ ] You're just saying that because you want to get hired. Like it's a magic genie. Don't ask for a [ __ ] job. Yeah. So, what do you really want? Uh I want a million dollars, which is patently absurd. You can't buy a house for a million dollars. So, it was like I began to realize, okay, wait a second. We have a frame of reference problem. But it began to reveal to me who people were really, really fast. And we had this one guy come in and I'm sitting in the interview and it's him and two other guys. And I'm doing the whole thing, and he is mad dogging me like [ __ ] crazy. Like he's clearly trying to test me. He's trying to see like if I'll back down. Like is this guy for [ __ ] real or what? And in the middle of the meeting, I point at him and I'm like, "You have anger management problems." And he was like his jaw hit the floor. Yeah. And I sent the other two people out and I said, "Look, I I want to talk to just you." And so, I take him for a walk. And he was like, "How the [ __ ] you do that?" I'm like, "What are you talking about?" He's like, "How did you know that I have anger management problems? I literally drove here from an anger management class." Wow. And I thought this is what it means to be good in a room. Yeah. And this is what it means to develop a skill set. Because the honest answer was I don't I don't have any innate special skill, but I'd interviewed so many people by then, and I'd just done little tests. Like let me throw I remember one time saying to a woman, um she was talking about something, and I was like, "The way she moves is like crazy graceful." So, I'm like, "Well, you know, back when you were taking ballet lessons." And she was like, "What the fuck?" Be She couldn't believe, but it was like it was just a [ __ ] guess, right? But you do this enough, you start to get pattern recognition, but you have to train yourself. So, I'm like, "Whatever it is that you're trying to do, you've got to push yourself to get to the point where you're getting good at it." Like you have to invest in everything like it's practice. You're not going to have like Here's So, I used to study magic. I have an obsession with magic. That's interesting. Uh dude, my thing is world breaks down into two people. There's the kind that when they find out how a trick is done, they're disappointed. And the other kind when they find out how it's done, they're more excited. Now, I'm going to give away all of magic for you. What makes something magical is the person has worked so impossibly hard and long and thought so far in advance that you simply would rather believe that they can bend the laws of physics than that they would work that far in advance planning things a year or 18 months or work on a trick for 5 10 years before they can pull it off. You think, "Well, there's no way that somebody would work on something for 10 years, or go to the, you know, like the manufacturer of this basketball to get a card put inside when the basketball is being made. No, that's what they really did. And it's like people just, nah, it's not possible. So, the to get good at something to me is like magic. You've just worked so long and so hard at it and fallen on your face so many times, and the number of things that I was like, oh, remember the time that you took ballet? And the person is like, what the [ __ ] you talking about? And so, cuz you miss, you just get it wrong. But you're like refining, refining, refining, refining. And if people took the time to make that demand of themselves, to get to the point where they can really be good at interviewing. And look, I've done enough of it to know it's [ __ ] brutally difficult. And I'm at like 57% accuracy instead of, you know, 50, which is just pure chance. So, this is not me saying that I've, you know, gotten so good at this that I can, you know, see through people's souls. But it's like, you you begin to get one up on the house, which is failure, right? When you think of the house always wins, you just fail. Like that's the default position when you're trying to start a company. And so, doing all this just inhuman amount of practice to get to the point where it looks like magic, because you've worked so long at it that people simply refuse to believe that it's just an unending amount of hard work. Yeah. I mean, man, this is such is life. Like whatever you whatever you do, you got to do it bad before you can do it good, you know? And I think a lot of people just there's so many incorrect I guess, uh, associations with certain things like, you know, like if you're you're tired, or like when you don't feel like it, or it's cold, or it's too hot, and it's like, oh, that means we don't. It's like, no, like I think when it's also known, Tom, like without question, there's going to be far more many days that we didn't feel like doing something, and we didn't feel like going and putting forth that effort to to get better at whatever that thing is that we're trying to improve on, there's going to be more days that we don't feel like doing that than days that we do. And I think the difference between winners and losers at the end of the day is winners just get up and go do it anyway. They do what they need to do because they understand that the happiness that all of us seek as human beings doesn't come with the material gold. It doesn't come with that $1 million that with that, you know, you rub the genie lamp. It comes with the progress. And progress is a direct positive consequence of work, sacrifice, and consistency. Mhm. And that is legitimately it. And we're not talking about like, you know, bundles of money and like, you know, huge companies. I mean, maybe some of us are. But some people, you know, they they just kind of drift throughout life, you know, the average American will have 12 jobs by the time they retire. They go from job to job to job because they get to a point where they just they they they feel as if they hate their job. 87% of Americans report not having passion towards their job. Dude, that's [ __ ] That's crazy. Like, you're [ __ ] If you don't have passion towards your job or 80% actually say they straight up hate their job. Dude, enjoy your shitty life. There's a lot of things out there that that are going to tell you that like, go do what you love. That is fundamentally impossible for the overwhelming majority of normal people. You have to train yourself to learn to love what you do. I don't know if I agree with that. Okay. So, uh so, here's my thinking on this. I think that your where you're going is directionally correct. So, people are you're not going to accidentally love your life. But I would tell people rather than try to fall in love with you're already doing. Like, develop love for something you actually give a [ __ ] about. So, I want people to be blank slates. That would fit my worldview a lot more than what I think is the scientific reality, which is you're probably about 50/50. So, 50% is temperament. It's you're born with that [ __ ] It's your genetics. It there's nothing to be done about it. And then 50% is epigenetics. So, it's it is your your unique like genetic abilities and temperaments and all that married with how did you grow up? What were the things you encountered? What were the coping techniques? What's the identity that you tell yourself? What do you take ownership? Do you not? What are the rules? What are your habits? Like all malleable [ __ ] Mhm. So, I think there really is something that people have that would be a spark of interest. And the thing that I think really [ __ ] people up is they don't have 6 months of saving. And if you don't have 6 months of savings, you're stuck in Maslow's hierarchy of needs. You're going to take you're going to keep the job even though you [ __ ] hate it because when you look at leaving, the level of panic that consumes you at the thought of like, what the [ __ ] would I actually do? Like would I Yeah, it it's it is so big and terrifying. You don't know which way to bounce. If people had 6 months savings and you knew that you could and you were [ __ ] disciplined about it so that if you left and you ate up 3 months of savings while you're looking for a job you actually cared about, you'd build it back up and you'd get to 6 months again. And that way you could always be looking at your job rationally and saying, "Do I actually enjoy this? Did I make a mistake? Did I try to win the job?" Oh god, that was something that used to drive me [ __ ] nuts. Yeah. People would come in, still now to this day, probably worse now because they've seen the content and so they're not thinking, "Oh, this is still [ __ ] work." Or they don't believe me when I say I'm the most die hard [ __ ] you're ever going to meet. So, if you're going to work around me, like be real careful about who you model your life after. But they try to win the job, right? So, rather than going, "Do I actually want to [ __ ] work here?" they're just trying to get picked. Mhm. And because they don't have 6 months salary and because they were trying to get picked and because they have like this they don't have a rule in their own life that all of this needs to add up to neurochemistry, they just end up in these weird [ __ ] positions. But they could, if they had the 6-month salary and they realized that a job is 50% of your waking hours and they made the demands of themselves that they're going to find something that is based on a real spark of interest. And that's where maybe we disagree is I think there are some things you're not going to be able to fall in love with. And so I'm and I am admittedly like if my wife were horribly burned, I would I would find a way to still fall in love with that. So, but at the same time my advice to people is you're going to craft a passion Mhm. based it on something you actually give a [ __ ] about. But yeah, you could do that. The I think a lot of people put or end up in situations where they don't have the savings because even if they are making, let's say, a surplus of of of money comparatively speaking to their bills, they hate their job. They take that energy with them outside that other 50% and they're going to spend money on things that temporarily, you know, give them that like serotonin hit. Temporarily make them feel good. Give them that short-term gratification. When you're not generally passionate about something, it's going to make it very, very difficult to go above and beyond. It's going to make it very difficult to get up early, to [ __ ] hammer it out late, to like work weekends, work holidays, to essentially do the things that you need to do to separate yourself from the pack and bring value to your organization and essentially be financially compensated. When I say that passion can be developed, I mean I don't know that this is like a an opinion. I mean, I lived it. For the first 5 years, I [ __ ] hated my company. I hated everybody that worked there. It was everybody else's fault. I didn't like what I was doing. I didn't come up privileged, Tom, so I wasn't like like a foodie with a like high-end palette, right? I have no culinary background. So, in my mind, again, I was a different person, and my mind worked a lot differently. I'm selling food. I'm selling food. I I couldn't get passionate about that. It wasn't until I Again, this was after I mean a lot changed after uh my sentencing and I was given a second chance and I mean I say a lot changed but it was my mindset that changed which is just a million things kind of organically evolved due to that. It wasn't until I started in creating and incorporating things that I was passionate about into my company that I fell in love with it. Essentially bringing in personal development as a mandatory part of the work day. Paying the team to do the the the the physical training. Doing the community involvement stuff that I never thought about before having in my business but stuff that like made me feel alive like on a personal level. So, once I was able to do that not only did I actually start enjoying what it is I was doing start making a lot of money. When before that, I mean I was making money. I mean like on paper like there was the apparent according to my accountant there was money but in the bank accounts it was a different story cuz I was spending it as fast as it was coming in. So, I just think it's a it's it's it's a mindset. I think the the the easiest way and quickest way to become passionate about something is to be the best at it. Reframe, you know, your mindset about what you're doing and just look for a way I mean like if you again like I I talked about this on my podcast the other day when I was giving some examples about you know, how anybody can just learn to be passionate about what they do and let's say you're a mechanic, right? You're turning wrenches all day whatever and you know, you people come in and you're looking for opportunities to upsell them on [ __ ] that they don't even really need and they don't really understand and just making what is for most people a very stressful situation like that much worse. You don't give a [ __ ] You're in there just just trying to [ __ ] people out of their money essentially. Like you could be that guy and be the guy who literally lives paycheck to paycheck, despises what he does for a living and again like has a relatively low quality life or you could be the guy who looks at every experience every customer experience as an opportunity to make like a what would ordinarily be considered very stressful situation for most people a little less stressful by being honest by being fair by helping them through the process recommending like I mean if they don't need something like or if there's a service that they could do on their own do it cheaper turn them on to that even if you lose that little bit of income like you and I know that that comes back in other ways in abundance but it's it's a way to just look at what you're doing instead of just the fact you're in the turning wrenches like no like you're in there to help people solve a real problem you're in there to help people get the means of transportation that you know allows them to commute to work to produce income to take their kids to soccer practice take their family out to dinner like it's just a different mindset when you go into it with that service mentality the entire game changes man and that is how you grow a business that is how you grow on a personal level is by doing things in such a way that essentially serve and bring value to others and when you see what happens when you do that when you're on the receiving end of that gratitude that is where the passion in my opinion is is ignited There's a great book by Cal Newport if I'm not mistaken called so good they can't ignore you Mhm and he talks about how passion is developed um and that passion a key component of passion is mastery and that was a a big epiphany for me and when I read that book I was like you're so [ __ ] right I do think it has to be built around something that's real for you and I think that it's telling that for you to to create the passion in your business you started bringing in things that you cared about um and that's the one thing that I'll sort of caution people against is rather than try to fight upstream and and create it based on something like if you [ __ ] hate your job you need to one take total ownership you have to look at that is it just you with a piss poor attitude and it's based on something you give a [ __ ] about and you've just wrapped it in garbage or is it something you really don't care about and it's time to move on but assuming that there is a spark of real interest there then going down the path of gaining mastery is it's pretty interesting that that is something that feeds into it so it's created this sense for me that passion is like love I don't think you're actually in love unless it's reciprocated you're infatuated but you're not in love and it's not going to give you energy in fact there's there's a darkness to unrequited love there's a desperation to it and neediness whereas when you really feel connected to the other person and and it just feels like reciprocal and Yeah. that there's something beautiful and it gives you energy that's how I feel about passion if you're getting so good at it that it has utility and it allows you to serve not only yourself but other people then you're it really does give you energy cuz when you're thinking about building this thing you're thinking about the ways that it's actually going to allow you to move through the world in a way that you value Yeah. and I think that one of the going back to universal values I think one of the universal values is is it's something that was hard to obtain it's unique to you and it allows you to help other people I think there's just that magical trifecta is is really powerful. I was never passionate about like cleaning puke off the floor in the strip club but I was passionate about like being the best at what I did I knew I had to do it so if I was going to do it I was going to be the best at it I was going to clean that floor in such a way where after I was done somebody would feel comfortable eating a prime rib directly off of it and That's clean. Well those that type of like attention to detail when you take pride in like those undesirable tasks like that cultivates like just habits and just good solid like regimented discipline that I mean again if you can't take pride in the small things, if you can't like just excel and dominate with the the small tasks, it's it's it's pretty unreasonable to think that you're going to be able to do anything on a higher level, uh you know, at a higher level. Yeah, no, that that is for sure. And how you do anything is how you do everything. And I think that that's one of those things that I heard a lot and I didn't really understand what it meant. Yeah. And I think I'll say it a different way. Whatever internal rules govern your actions, they they govern all of your actions. So, if it is okay to you to um tell people that you do one thing and then do another, then you're going to do that with everything. Things that matter, things that don't matter. It's like so, I I engineer hard things into my life. And part of what makes that so sustainable for me is I love the feeling when in a public forum, I get to say, "I did that thing." And even though nobody's there to check me, I get the neurochemical reward because I know I actually did it. So, even though nobody's looking, I'm not doing it for the feedback from other people. That would be so totally empty if I knew I was bullshitting. It's the way that I feel because I know that it's actually true. And I know that I was consistent. So, that rule about this is about how I feel about myself. That governs all of my actions. So, I'm not going to [ __ ] or take on something that I'm not prepared to crush because I know it's not going to serve me. So, I think people have to be really careful about the about taking control of the rules that they live by. You have rules whether you realize what they are or not. One of your rules may be do whatever you can get away with. And that's a rule I see a lot of [ __ ] live by. And so, it's like, "Well, as long as nobody else knows, I'm fine with it." But you want to talk about violating universal principles of the human animal. The human animal is drawn to integrity. If I say something, I do something. And the desire to be congruent, I don't know why it's hardwired into us, but it is. And it probably serves an evolutionary advantage from if you're congruent, then you have trust within the group. If you're trusted within the group, you're more likely to be protected by the group, which means you're less likely likely to get ostracized. I'm making that [ __ ] up, but I'm guessing it's going to be something like that. So, knowing that we're this social creature, once you begin to parse out like what are the universals, live in accordance with those, then you can begin to layer on fancier things that are maybe unique to you, but like first getting in alignment with the the just universals. Doing a job well is always and forever going to make somebody proud. The end. Yeah, and like and and the other thing is like you said when you're not doing thing or when you're doing things and people don't know, dude, just cuz they don't see you doing something like doesn't mean you can't tell. It's like you can [ __ ] tell, right? Like people's lives look the way they do not because of the [ __ ] that they do when the boss is watching or when the spotlight's on. It's a result of the [ __ ] that they're doing or not doing when they're alone and when nobody else is watching. And that's a real fact and I think a lot of people are quick to get frustrated or like disgruntled or you know bitter resentful in a situation in a business whether they're working in a business or working at their own business and they're not growing, things aren't happening. Well, things aren't happening because you're not doing things that you need to do to make them [ __ ] happen. And I think just people tend to under I mean, look man, this [ __ ] is hard. Like it's hard. But it's supposed to be hard. So, when you know that, it kind of just changes the game a little bit. Like hard isn't bad. Hard is necessary. It's interesting. Hard is truth. It just is hard. So, for whatever reason, like I'd be happy if it weren't hard. That would be amazing. Although, there's mechanisms within us that I think if you didn't earn it, yeah, there's there's nothing there. So, it's I know you read Extreme Ownership. So, I love Jocko Willink's idea of oh, it's hard, good. Right? That notion of once you lean into the pain, then everything changes. And there's this really [ __ ] fascinating documentary called Sick. Life and death of Bob Flanagan, super masochist. Now, I am not recommending it cuz the guy literally nails his penis to a board on camera and it is the only time in my life where I actively had to put my hands in front of my eyes. I couldn't [ __ ] watch. It was so crazy. And but it is utterly fascinating. This guy had cystic fibrosis. So, his whole life from the time he was a kid, his he's sort of slowly dying from the clogging of his own lungs with mucus. So, you're basically drowning. But he it took him 40 years to drown. So, like imagine the amount of pain. Yeah, it's [ __ ] crazy. So, when he's like 11, he starts putting needles needles in a belt and whipping himself with it. And in the documentary, I'm thinking, this is so [ __ ] crazy. I had never encountered this idea ever before in my life and it was like looking into the abyss of human nature and realizing there there like weirdnesses to us as an animal. And his whole explanation was, I took control of the pain. And that like I have the chills now. That resonates. Like when I go to the dentist, I [ __ ] hate the dentist, man. But I force myself like if they're doing something that really hurts, I open my mouth wider to make sure they can really [ __ ] get in there. And once I switch my mind to I'm not trying to avoid the pain, I'm asking myself one [ __ ] simple question. How much can I bear? Once I flip my mind to that, like [ __ ] I'm in control here. I can go all the way. I will not break. Like when you begin telling yourself that narrative, when those are the words that are running through your head, the neurochemistry in your own [ __ ] mind changes. That's why like I want people to get this is a game of neurochemistry. So, you [ __ ] worrying about what somebody else does, you saying that this is their fault, you working in a company and pissing and moaning that things aren't working. You starting a company, Jesus Christ, and thinking that like, "Oh, this isn't working and it's somebody else's fault." Yep. Exactly what you said. [ __ ] you're not doing what you need to do to win. Yeah, you got to adjust. Yes. So, literally, stop worrying about anything other than, "No [ __ ] what would it take? No [ __ ] what would it take? What would I have to do?" And once you take that on and one, you're not judging yourself for whether you win or lose. You're judging yourself by, "Am I sincerely pursuing this or not?" Because look, there's so much you can't control. Like as much as I I only ever ask myself, "What can I do to make a change? How much of this can I own?" And all that. And it actually drives me [ __ ] crazy when people hear that and then they think I'm saying I can control people or the world. I know that I can't, but I can always control myself and in doing different things, I can at least change the odds of getting a different outcome. And so, staying in that like driver's position to me is what it's all about. And so, looking at binary. This is my goal. Either what I did got me my goal or it didn't, and then just own it. So, I mean, so much what you just said. That was that was amazing. Like I understand why that guy did what he was doing. It's the the you know, you said he he What did he do? He nailed his penis That that part I still don't understand, but he whipped himself with a belt with needles in it. Okay, he he whipped him and then ultimately he nailed his penis to a a board or something. Uh-huh. So, it's literally the same mental concept as for why people do like try Iron Man triathlons, why people do these just crazy just tasks of mental and physical strength. It's because they understand and recognize what is on the other end of that. For someone like that, he probably, you know, due to his condition or his his his health or lack thereof, he couldn't do some of those things. So, he took advantage and leveraged that opportunity to really discover what the human spirit was capable of. And the thing is, the more discomfort we actively seek out, the more voluntary situations we put ourselves in that hurt, that don't [ __ ] feel good, it makes the problems that we encounter in business and life infinitely more tolerable. And instead of defaulting to oh well, it's this other person's fault or that or every [ __ ] excuse that we can possibly we realize that like this is [ __ ] part of it. This is the game. I'm not doing things good enough. So, I need to [ __ ] step up, stop being a [ __ ] and do the things I need to do to [ __ ] fix whatever problems that I have essentially created. And that's the [ __ ] difference, man. The people that are going to make the excuses and blame other circumstances, the president, the economy, this you know, this other comp- but whatever. Like those are the people that haven't voluntarily put themselves in enough situations where they basically inflicted pain on themselves via very hard workouts, cold showers, like all these little opportunities that we all have readily available to ourselves every single day that basically does things to our mind that don't necessarily make it to where as we don't we you know, have less problems, but it puts us in a better position to take action when we do experience the problems. And we recognize that those problems aren't like you know, bad things. They're opportunities. Yeah, that's interesting. There's something about hard things I'm I'm super intrigued to understand like one, it prepares you. So, cold exposure actually makes your body marshal a response. It increases your immune system response. You can actually change some white adipose tissue into brown fat so that you're more thermogenic. You can actually create more heat. Okay, cool. So, there's the physiological response. We got that. it's all real. Yep. But there's also something about self-worth Mhm. is tied to doing hard things specifically. Like when you do difficult things, I think it changes the way that you feel about yourself. Which is really interesting. And it falls into, I think, even the the same realm Jordan Peterson talks a lot about like clean your room. Yeah. And I think it there's something similar about that. There's getting yourself organized, being disciplined, doing hard things. There's So, I um I had Wim Hof on the show. Mhm. And he's like the master of cold exposure for people who don't know don't know. If you guys haven't seen that episode, by the way, go watch it. Impact Theory Wim Hof. Um and I thought, "Okay, he's coming on the show. I'm going to do cold exposure. So, I'll do cold showers." Now, because I've struggled with anxiety in my life and Was that your first time doing anything like that? Yeah, I'd never Okay. I had avoided cold in ways you can't imagine. Going out of it I would plan my day around my outfits, everything around making sure that I didn't get cold because I went through a period in my life I really really struggled debilitatingly with anxiety. Got it. And the physiological response that I have to cold is identical to the physiological response I have when I'm anxious. So, being cold made me feel entirely anxious. Like there was no difference. And if I was cold and then put in an anxious situation, I was just a mess. Like Mhm. feel the brain leaving my prefrontal cortex, my heart racing, my breathing getting shallow, I was shivering. It was It was just really really nightmarish. And so, I had avoided it, avoided it, avoided it like always trying to just make sure I was always warm rather than inoculating myself, which would have would have been much smarter. But so, one I'm I've, you know, now at the point that I start doing this I've spent years dealing with my anxiety and learning how to mentally handle it and not being as sort of physically prone to getting myself worked up. Mhm. So, he comes on the show, I decide I'm going to do it. But I only tell myself, I think it was like 30 days. I'm going to do 30 days and then that's it. And now it's been what almost 6 months. So, because it was hard and it made me feel good about myself. It just made me feel disciplined and tough and resilient and and I like the the real things that are happening physiologically. you build your confidence. I don't know that I'll say that it was confidence. That's that's a different region of my brain, but it let me it furthered my self-respect. Yeah, when people put themselves in situations where they do really hard things and overcome, you know, adversity or just very difficult tasks. Like at the other end of it, there's a lot of things. There's a lot of those, you know, the the the chemical reactions that we have and that we experience, but it also shows us that, you know what, like we are capable. When we commit, when we set our mind to something and we put in the work and back our actions up accordingly, like we can do pretty much anything that we set our mind to. And for a lot of people, like it starts with doing something small. Like just start the cold showers, man. Start the cold showers. Do that. Build that in your routine. Then start with the workouts. A lot of I mean, look, most people aren't going to the gym at all, right? Even the ones that that are, like, they're going there and what are they doing, Tommy? They're they're going through the motions, right? They're doing They're doing the least amount of work in there possible as opposed to going in there and just going directly for the thing that they want to do the very [ __ ] least. The thing that they feel like if they do it, they're going to look stupid. Dude, that is the type of [ __ ] you need to be doing more of. Those are little opportunities that we have every single day to build our mental toughness, to build our discipline, and to essentially build our confidence that will allow us to kind of like take the plunge with other bigger things. And when you're an entrepreneur or someone who has the entrepreneur mindset, dude, nothing is more [ __ ] important than having confidence. Mhm. You got to [ __ ] know that, like, all right, I'm going to [ __ ] do this. And if it doesn't work out, that's okay. Because I'm going to be that much closer to the plan that is. All right. So, imagine right now somebody's listening to this. They have zero self-confidence. They're a total [ __ ] mess. What is your plan? What do you have them do? I would tell I would tell them to get on some sort of diet, right? And a lot of people get overwhelmed because there's so much conflicting information out there. Because I honestly believe um I sort of alluded to at the beginning of the uh the beginning of the show. I believe that the food that we put in our bodies. And let me also just say that I'm not just saying this because of the nature of my business. Yeah. One looking physique and anybody that says that is That has nothing to do with physique. Interesting. So, you're not even So, give it to me then. Yeah. So, so I believe that just like the people we surround ourselves with, I mean, which which dictate our mindset, which raise or lower our standards, I believe the food that we put in our mouth has a very similar effect. like on a microbiome level? Like about like if we're eating foods that make us feel like [ __ ] more often than not and our body becomes accustomed to feeling and performing like [ __ ] we're not going to go very far. So, what are things that make people feel like [ __ ] What is the optimum diet? Yeah, like like I mean, look, if you're eating out most of the time, you're eating going through the drive-thru, right? Like eating [ __ ] that's like like heavily processed, things that I mean, look, everybody here knows what's not good for them, right? But convenience is I mean, in 2019 world, convenience is uh essentially everything. The the problem with uh with diets and food in general is it's not something like, you know, when you eat something bad, something immediately bad happens to you, right? Like you're I mean, if you do too mu- much drugs at one time, you'll overdose. If you drink too much, you could, you know, end up in the hospital or whatever the case is. Eating bad food doesn't work like that. It's almost like a like a slow process where your body essentially deals with it for a long time until one day it no longer can. And your body essentially acclimates to feeling a certain way. And you again, you're not aware of the fact that you're feeling like [ __ ] I mean, look, if you're not eating good right now, I would say eat good for 1 day. One [ __ ] day where you eat like clean protein, a lot of vegetables, drink a lot of water. You will feel different. If you're eating like [ __ ] or not eating well, right? And you eat good for just 1 day, you're going to feel different. So, just imagine like what that's going to do if that was something that was part of your routine. When I started to eating good, and again, like my standards and my interpretation of eating good has evolved and continues to. Like, in the hierarchy of reasons why eat good, looking good naked is probably like number four. Like, I eat good because I want to feel good. I've I I try to set my life, my surroundings, my environment, just everything up to optimizing the way that I feel because when I when I'm [ __ ] on, when I'm feeling it, dude, I feel like I can like levitate mountains with my mind. But when I'm not, when I'm around like bad energy or have like just situations going on, dude, like I I I resort back to feeling like how I did like when I was a [ __ ] [ __ ] when I was a punk, when I was when I was getting street fights all the time, angry and resentful. So, like, I'm aware now of how good the body is designed to feel, and I'm also aware that most people live their entire [ __ ] lives not fully understanding it. So, if you want to get to a point where, you know, you're able to perform your best and feel your best, dude, you got to put [ __ ] in your body that's consistent with that. And a lot of other things will just kind of organically sort themselves out. So, without question, if somebody who was had no confidence, didn't really know where to start, Start eating good. And based off that, like you're going to start feeling better, you're going to start looking better. So, there's that. That's important. I mean, look, most people they get up every morning, right? The first thing that they have to start their day is looking at a reflection in the mirror that physically and mentally disgusts them. That's a fact. And now they now take that with them, Tom, for their entire day. That energy is They If they're not even comfortable and confident in their own skin, how on earth can they possibly do like that live their best life? And how can they get the most out of the one opportunity that they have on this planet? And it's a it's it's a problem, man. 3/4 of the adult population right now categorized as either overweight or obese for the first time in the history of our species, the average human's life expectancy is actually going down. That's crazy. It Well, it's I mean, the the thing that's crazy is we're doing it to ourselves by the decisions that we're making with the things that we're putting in our mouth. And it's like, look, I mean, I don't want you guys to buy meals for my company and whatever. I just want you to feel good. I want you to do good. I want you to live your best life possible. And I'm telling you that is not it's that's not practical or realistic if you're not essentially optimizing yourself for the outcome that you're after. And it starts with things like, you know, the decisions we make when, you know, we're uh we're eating. All right. So, we've got diet. We've got just body composition. What else? Confidence. Yeah. Um the another thing that I mean, look, like my big thing that, you know, again, it it it it it's helped me change my life. It continues to be a a staple part of my day. It's something that I've I mean, I invest hundreds of thousands of dollars a year into my team is the personal development. Personal development is not like it's like, okay, if you're going to the gym once or twice a week, are you going to get you're probably not going to get very good results. Personal development needs to not be something that you do some of the time, when you feel like it, when they get the notification that you dropped a new a new episode. It needs to be Personal development is part of the work, in my opinion. Personal development is the most important work of your life, because it essentially teaches you how to become more effective with the work that you are doing. There are two ways to get better. Experience, which takes a long time, and training. And every day, I mean, we have the opportunity to take advantage of all of these resources that are readily available to us, most of which are free in a 2019 world, that can essentially make us better, that can help us become like more evolved versions of ourselves and think differently, which again, like as I said, is extremely important to develop that awareness of, you know, what the path forward will entail. No, I love that, man. All right, if people want to dive into your world, where where can they find you? Yeah, I'm on Instagram @chriscavallini. Same thing on Facebook. Again, crazy? I think we got moving so fast in the beginning of this, I don't think I ever said your name. It's all good. That's It's all good. Don't worry, it'll be in the the name of the episode, but yeah. Thank you, though. Thank you. And I just started a podcast a couple months ago, and this is something it took me from the time I started thinking about it to the time it actually materialized for like 2 and 1/2 years. And again, like I think the the tie-in with that as it relates to what we're talking about is things take time, and often times things are going to take a lot longer than you know, what we want, but you know, when you stay the course, you stay committed, and you know, you stay true to what it is you want, it will happen. But podcast start today podcast, if you're digging the vibe, yeah, I'd love to have you guys listen, check us out on there, and yeah, send us some feedback, let me know what you think. Awesome, man. Well, thank you so much for doing this, dude. It was wonderful to meet you and to hang out. Yeah. I love the way your mind works. Thank you, brother. Awesome, man. Everybody, thanks for joining us. Check them out. You can follow me at @tombilyeu. All right, guys. We'll see you on the flip side. Peace out. Thanks, Tom. Dude, that was awesome, man. Thank you, dude. That was rad. a good time. I always do a little extra. I always go the extra inch. And the quickest and easiest place to do it is the gym. Cuz I can always grab one more weight, one more set. And it Here's what it does. It shifts your identity.