“They’re Liars!” Mizkif Breaks Silence on $36,000,000 Loss, Allegations, & Controversy

Is streaming harder than a 9 to5? Yeah, my job's harder than your job. I'm always thinking about my stream, my content, how to grow, what I can do better. You're an entrepreneur. You don't stop working. That's what it takes to be a top streamer. Streaming has to become your life. What am I really going to do that's going to make these people want to watch me? Especially as you get older because your chat gets older, too. How are you investing your own money to try to like grow your channel, your brand? What do 30-year-olds want? They want to learn about money. They want to grow their empire themselves. I don't want to watch you sit there and hang out with girls all day. So, the whole environment of streaming is way harder to grow now. It's impossible to get into streaming. Twitch is a dying platform. It's dying because of its ads and it's dying quick. >> What would you say is your biggest insecurity? >> It was bad. Like, when I say there was like the whole website was about ruining my life. It's the biggest drama that's ever happened on Twitch. I have a really crazy story. I So I when I was 16, I I was day trading like every day, all day. And I started with $2,500. And this is right about the time where Wolf of Wall Street came out and everyone was going crazy for penny stocks, right? >> I got involved with this group and they were on Skype and they were called the Wolf of Weed Street. And the big thing was it was a guy had a wolf instead of it was Leonardo DiCaprio. It was a picture of a wolf and his thing was you follow my lead I'll make you rich and then he started growing groups of people in that group who were like these are your leaders and you literally were just following them. I followed him uh for for months I would join his uh groups. I was listening to him talk in Skype calls and in meetings and he would tell you what he's buying next and every single penny stock he invested in skyrocketed. like I did not lose money one time and he just got bigger and bigger on Twitter. He started showing his penthouse suite, all this crazy stuff. He blew the up. I went from $2,500 to over 150 grand as a 16-year-old kid. >> 16. And this is uh what 14 I forget how many years now. >> Yeah. >> And it was so big and I felt like a So my friends were talking to me and I'm like, "Dude, I'm rich. I made 12 grand in some days like as a 16-year-old kid. And there's one investment he said. He said, "Guys, we are doing Tesla puts. Put your money in Tesla puts." And I'm like, "Dude, if I just put 50 grand in these Tesla puts and it skyrockets, I'm a millionaire at 16 years old." And I was freaking out. So, I put $50,000 in and I lost every single penny. And then he just completely ghosted the community and he just left the internet. But what was crazy is what we were investing in, which was penny stocks but for weed companies. And they were complete. >> It was like this is a random pharmaceutical in Nebraska that's going to start changing the the game because his name is Wolf of Weedre. So he only invested in weed companies. >> So you still made 75 grand. >> Yeah. Well, I'm 16 now and I'm alone with a bunch of money thinking I'm I have an ego and I know what I'm talking about, right? So I had $75,000. So I then bet again on weed stocks thinking I know it was doing cuz there were some other guys that were like I'm going to take leadership and you should listen to me and I listened to them and it continued to drop and it continued to drop and I literally didn't have one win cuz we kept investing in penny stocks to the point where I was down I think I came out with like 15 grand. >> So at what point in your life did you did you have hope that you were capable of making a lot of money? >> Uh it was pro I always was a workaholic. I love business. I love I went one time I was in this is I was like 5 years old. I went to Toys R Us and I walked up to the lady and I demanded a job. I'm like, "Give me a job. I want to work now." And she's like, "Okay, here's a notepad and I want you to write down your information." Couldn't write. I'm like, "Dad, this is all you." And um I walked out of there with my head held high. I was like, "I'm going to be a toy uh you know, connoisseur. I'm going to test toys for Toys R Us." And uh that did not work out. I called them 20 years later. They were bankrupt. But you know, >> sounds like they needed you, man. >> Yeah. >> Sounds like they needed you. Yeah. >> You see the movie Big? >> No, I don't watch movies. >> Okay. It's a Tom Hanks movie. That's what he did. He's he's a kid. He turn He's a, you know, grows up really quick from a uh a wish that he made and he was a toy tester. >> Oh, that's sick. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I wanted to do that. I remember I wanted to uh I always wanted to work. I love working cuz I get very bored and I like money. So I always wanted to be very rich. So I always was trying to find ways to make money. Um and whether it was selling whether it was uh weed stocks, you know, cuz when you're a kid, you're always trying to find a way to make money the fastest way possible, right? You're you're willing to take those massive risks because really, who cares? If you take a massive risk as a kid, whatever, right? Uh that $2,500 that I risked, whatever. I wouldn't even remember it the next day. But I've always loved investing and I always loved trying to make money and I was always looking at like, wow, if I just invest a few thousand a year from 16 to 30, I'll be a millionaire one day, right? That was my logic. Um, but then when money really started to come in was obviously during streaming. I before that I was a just a kid at college. There's this stereotype though that like streamers and YouTubers are really bad with money. I'm just curious. What's the most reckless that you've seen someone spend money? >> As a streamer, I'd probably say reckless. Streamers are not really reckless with money. I mean, I would say probably my Lamborghini that I just bought was pretty reckless because ad revenue is down dramatically, sponsors are down dramatically on Twitch, and um my sub count's way lower than it used to be. So, me buying that Lamborghini that you told me to buy was definitely a risky move and I hope it pays off, but we'll see what happens. The thing is streamers are not really risk they're not really they don't buy things that are ridiculous with their money. I don't really know any streamer that truly buys ridiculous things. What streamers do is you got to put them in the mindset of like a 17-year-old because most of them are financially completely illiterate, right? They don't even know how to invest. They don't even know that you could put your stuff into a, you know, high yield savings account. They don't know any of that stuff. I have so many friends that are streamers that have made millions of dollars that just straight up it sits in their bank account and they don't touch it and because they don't understand stocks, they don't understand investments. They don't get it. I have friends that have bought cash, full cash, bought houses. Like, what are you doing? You buy your house in full cash. because they don't understand business. They don't have an advisor. And they're not really bad with money because the things that a lot of streamers buy, it's just games, right? They'll be like, "Oh, I bought this game this week." And the cost to stream is cheap. Hire an editor. Maybe you have a manager and you're paying for electricity in a game. So, there's not a lot of expenses for a lot of streamers. So, they're not really bad with money. It's more so they're uh they're just financially illiterate and they don't use their >> How much do you think they're making? >> Like the top streamers. >> I would probably say if you're talking top streamers, you got guys like Kaisat. It really depends on how much they stream, but he probably makes, if I had to guess, over $50 million a year >> if I had to guess. That's insane. >> He's doing a current Well, let's do the math. He's doing a current subathon right now, right? and his goal is to hit a million subscribers. Now, people go, "Oh my god, that's where all the money is." That's not where all the money is at all. He's making way more money with the ads because guys like Kai Sanat run 22 minutes of ads an hour on Twitch. >> 22 minutes of ads an hour. >> Yes. It should not even be legal to do that. But these guys, the new generation of streamers, they run 22 minutes of ads an hour. >> Hold on a second. We have 4 minutes of ads in like 2 hours. And people do not like. Okay. Well, actually, in fairness, we have 4 minutes of sponsorships in 2 to 3 hours, and then we have automatically placed YouTube ads, which is maybe an extra few minutes an hour. That's not bad at all, right? >> No. >> Listen, they used to complain about us running 3 minutes of ads an hour. >> Yeah, >> that that was a big complaint was like, why are there ads on Twitch now? Well, they got to make money. But these streamers, these new gen streamers run 22 minutes. And maybe it's cuz we're older. So, we grew up with a, you know, generation and stuff. We didn't have commercials like this nowadays. Nowadays, the these streamers or these these uh viewers are conditioned to watch a lot of ads. Kai runs 22 minutes of ads an hour a lot of times on his stream. That means that every like 8 minutes you're watching three minutes of ads. And they do that because they want you to subscribe or they want you to watch the ads. Kai is making if he gets a million subscribers this month, $3.5 per ad per sub. That's 3.5 million. Okay, I promise you that with the ad revenue, it's probably double that because he's live 24 hours a day with 100,000 plus viewers running 22 minutes of ads an hour. Kai is probably making 10 million plus dollars this month. And that's not including other brand deals that I don't even know about, Nike, etc. I would say Kai, if he's able to hit 1 million subs, is probably making $10 million this month. How difficult is that to run an operation like that and stream that much? >> It's very taxing mentally. Uh I I can I condone him for his success. I mean, he's doing this the third one he's done. Dude is extremely successful. The thing that Kai has that really sets him apart is not who he is because he's a great entertainer. It's his team. He has one of the best teams I've ever seen in my life. They are so good with the tech. They are so good at just keeping his momentum going and I don't even know I don't even know his team name. I forgot what they are. They're great at what they do. They're making him into a superstar. >> Yeah, >> but that costs a lot of money. So, I promise you that $10 million is something way less because Kai's probably spending millions on this whole subathon between flying people in between paying for just a bunch of stuff. He's probably and also the people who are running the stream for 24 hours a day. He's probably spending a few million dollars just on that. So, you're saying streamers aren't actually as bad with money as people may think? Because I see a lot of streamers, they're buying like Richard Mills and they're buying crazy watches, crazy cars, they're living in mansions. You're saying that still that's not very, you know, poor financial decisions of them? No, because the thing is a lot of streamers make millions of dollars a year and these streamers, you know, they spend money whenever they want to. Buying a couple watches here and there, it also depends on what they do. If you're talking gambling streamers, they make tens of millions of dollars a year. that watches pennies. They throw that. But if you're talking an average streamer who's a big-timer, let's say 10 to 15k viewers, they're probably making a few million dollars a year. It's way less than what it used to be on Twitch. During COVID and other places, ad revenue was way higher. People subscribed a lot more because it was more communitydriven. >> And nowadays, what Twitch is having is a huge problem is their ads are down so much. They're down like 50 60% in how much you get. And what's happening now that's a real problem on Twitch is they tell you, "Hey, I because I used to run three minutes of ads an hour during COVID. That's nothing nowadays. I wish I ran more, but back then they would [ __ ] about 30 minutes of ads. They would be like, "Go yourself. You're running ads period." >> And nowadays, you've got this the these uh streamers, the new age, they're running 15 minutes of ads plus. >> Yeah. The whole point of Twitch was to get away from the mainstream media of ads. It was I don't want to see 18 minutes, 15 minutes of ads an hour watching Fox News. I'm going to go watch a streamer who can react to this stuff and also I maybe runs 3 to 5 minutes. Twitch is not only down dramatically in ad revenue and they admit it to us behind the scenes. They tell us every time, yeah, we're just we we don't make nearly as much as we used to in ads. And I'm like, okay, well, what is the solution? How are you going to make sure that streamers can continue their operation? Your website is declining in viewership every month. Twitch is down 25% this year alone. And that's not even including all the embeds and bots that go on the website. It's down 25%. >> Where are people going? Is it kick? >> I don't think they're going to kick. I think what's happening is people are just leaving the website because the ads have gotten so bad that there's no reason to watch Twitch anymore. And the problem is you can be one of those streamers that hey, I'm just going to lower it to 3 minutes because you can do that. I'm going to be a good guy. I'm going to make less money. I'm going to lower mine to three minutes. That doesn't matter. And that's the problem is because since everyone else is running 10 to 15 minutes of ads nowadays because Twitch tells you to. If you go to my ad page, it says recommended ad time 10 to 12 minutes. Are you kidding me? That's that's daytime television and you're telling me to run 10 to 12 minutes. That's your solution to us making less money. So these viewers, they're leaving Twitch because the ads are so bad. They're not going to stay around to watch other streamers as well because Twitch is an ecosystem. That's how it grew is streamers were growing. High tides raise all ships. >> But if you run 3 minutes of ads an hour, okay, when you're offline and they're going to go watch other people, they're all watching 10 minutes of ads an hour. They're leaving. They're not going to just stay there for you. So, when people are making that much money though and they they tack on a gambling stream on top of that, how much do these gambling companies pay? Like, what's the craziest deal that you've seen? >> I got offered $36 million for a year at my peak. >> That is insane. >> XQC, and this is public, he got $100 million for two years to stream on kick and to do gambling. And now when they pay that amount, is there a requirement that says, "Okay, we're going to pay you this, but we recommend that you gamble 80% of that like >> Yeah, there they tell you to gamble. They tell you that you need to do a specific amount of hours." And for XQC, it was more of like a big deal that he went there cuz this is the beginning of Kick. >> But yeah, XQC is by far the biggest deal that ever happened and will happen. Um, he got 100 million plus dollars to stream over there and do some gambling and do two years of service there. >> But how much of that? So, they fund his account, I'm guessing. So, it's $50 million per year. It's about $4 million a month. >> How much of that $4 million that they give him per month are they expecting him to gamble? >> Well, like how much does can he whittle it down to it? Any thoughts? >> Yeah. >> Yes, he could 100%. But he doesn't because he also is a huge gambler. That's the thing that these companies want. They want you to push it, but they also want you to be addicted to it. And XC is very addicted to gambling. So, he was doing it offstream. He was doing it onstream. And he was just gambling sometimes millions of dollars a day. I think his his total account was like a billion dollars. >> Now, I believe XQC's money that he would gamble was actually his money, but some streamers don't do that. Some streamers gamble with fake money. And that's where a lot of people have problems is like, well, you're not gambling with your own money and that is disingenuous because you're acting excited a lot of times and it's not really your money. >> Can they not keep the profits if they're not gambling with their own money? >> That's usually what happens is the companies will say, "Look, you can keep the profits." Um, so that way they do seem excited. But a lot of times what they will also do is, hey, you we'll give you, let's say, $50,000 for 3 hours and you just play with this 20K and then just leave it in your account. >> So, I saw a clip of a streamer that made $40 million on a spin on a slot machine. Yes. >> Do you think that that's just fake money? >> No. >> That's real money. >> I know that exact clip you're talking about. That's real. >> And he made $40 million. He made $40 million and then he probably whittleled it away. >> Yes, I know who you're talking about. He is a huge gambler. Yes, he probably whittleled away. But I mean, he's also getting paid from stake monthly, millions of dollars, I'm sure, to promote it. So, he's not willing whittling anything. He's making millions and millions a month streaming on kick. >> So, what was it like getting a $36 million offer like that? I mean, that's like multiple generations lifechanging money. >> If if you could go back in time, would you have taken the $36 million? It's It's really hard to say. I actually don't think I would. And the reason why is back then I had a tremendous amount of young viewers. Um I was very popular with like the Mcrafters back then, but then I ate this like autistic toy on stream. I like chewed on it and they all hated me afterwards. And I'm like, "All right, if you're going to hate me for that, you're going to hate me for everything." But they But before that is when I got this deal. And um it was a lot. It It wasn't just like a small like keep in mind $36 million. Yes. It was basically, hey, ruin your career for $36 million. And I can do that on my own. I don't need $36 million. You'd rather just chew a toy. Yeah. I'd rather just chew a toy and they all [ __ ] off. I got that offer was basically, hey, we want you to make a hundred hours of gambling a month. It was it was not some like do this once in a while and tweet. It was like, no, we want basically your social media. Let's sell it for $36 million for two years. Um, so it was it was much more than that. Would I have be happy with that? I don't really think I would. Um, you know, I didn't get wrong. $36 million is a ton of money, but the amount that they wanted and the deal itself was just a lot. It was it was a tremendous amount of work. Like >> I'm just saying I think from your perspective I wonder cuz I mean effectively you lost $36 million. I'm curious if you could go back in time why why not just go take the 36 million aka $3 million per month, go and just do penny slot the entire time and not get excited when you win it and tell your audience by the way guys I think this is completely stupid. Tune in next year. Tune in next year. You could like that would have been phenomenal content. You could have talked about anything. Played, you know, gambling on half the screen and then like YouTube videos on the other half and you're just like spinning the entire time and they're talking about this and then there's a disclaimer or something. By the way, this is sponsored and also like I could care less about this. I'm trying to take $2 million. Like that would have been legendary to walk away from that. >> Especially if you talk about how bad gambling is and how addictive it can be and like how you shouldn't be doing it. And >> does that work though as a thing when you say it's it's it's bad. >> You can win 10 cents and be like, "Oh, look, I just won 10 cents." You know, >> plus I guarantee you cuz these companies, you know, >> they would have stopped it a month in. >> They would have stopped it a month in like if you're really just doing penny slots here, like go yourself. >> They'll find a violation in the contract or they won't do contracts at all. I mean, a lot of these companies just do like, hey, here's the crypto, right? So, I necessarily don't know if that would have made a I I definitely couldn't have done that. I definitely would have had to gamble real money. Also, be bored out of my mind. But back then, was it would I have done it? Probably not. If I can go back, would I do something smaller? Probably because I think for myself back then I was very against it. Also nowadays, my viewers are a lot older, >> so they don't care as much. Like, oh well, I'm like 30 now, Miz. I don't give a when before it's like a lot of them were like, I'm 16 years old and a lot of those viewers just went over to Aiden Ross is what I guess or speed, I don't know. Now, really quick, I just want to say that I always ask myself, what does the future hold for business? And the thing is, if you ask nine different experts, you're going to get 10 different answers from a bull market, a bare market. Things are going up, they're going down. Be very helpful to have a crystal ball. But until that happens, over 43,000 businesses have already futurep proofed their business. With Netswuite by Oracle, the number one AI cloud ERP, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR into one fluid platform. You see, with just one unified business management suite, you have just one source of truth, giving you all of the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. Plus, with real-time insights and forecasting, you're peering into the future with actionable data. So, when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you're spending way less time looking back and a whole lot more on what's next. So, whether your company is running millions or even hundreds of millions, Netswuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. And speaking of opportunity, right now you can download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netswuite.com/ist. Again, that guide is free for you at netswuite.com/istic with a link also down below. netswuite.com/istic. Thank you again to Netswuite for sponsoring this episode. And now, let's get back to the podcast. So, on the topic of the people that are really bad with finances, which apparently not very many, but then let's talk about who I think is the person that is best with their finances, which is Asmin Gold. I mean, realistically, I suspect he's making a million dollars a month. That's what I think. And he's still eating dollar steaks. >> Yes. >> So he's probably saving 99.9% of his income basically. But for what? >> I agree. I mean, I think he's shortening his lifespan by eating those dollar stakes and maybe not brushing his teeth. I don't know. But I think that that's a little bit dangerous because he could be improving his life, improving like getting more sunlight, you know, this sort. >> I think that's what makes it makes it appealing though. But at the same video where he like showered and it got like millions of views. I think people want to see him, you know, be healthier and like, >> but you say that, right? But let's be honest, if you watch a fat man lose weight, it's exciting until he loses the weight, right? Like, you got to understand that if Asmigold becomes this prim prime person and starts living in a lavish house or a nicer house or he changes his style, people are going to be very proud of the progression. But once they hit that goal, it's like, okay, but this is not who he was. So, he keeps that narrative of this is I'm this gross guy. And it's smart. It's his business. It's it makes him unique. >> Is it a narrative? >> No, he's really like that. I mean, he is genuinely a person that lives in his house and he will, in my opinion, in that house. He loves that house. He loves the way he lives. I don't see him changing. I think he can change a little bit. He might eat like a piece of broccoli every two weeks, but I just don't see >> What does he do with the money? >> I personally believe he probably leaves it under his mattress. >> You don't think he's investing? No. >> Like doing something smart with it? No. Have you talked to him about it? Yes, I promise you he's not. Or he I just don't think he cares. Uh I think between kick, his normal money he makes, and everything else, that dude genuinely does not care about money. Uh he cares much more about the growth of his channel and the success of his stream than he ever will money. He didn't care about money when I first met him. He just never cared because for him, he knows this is the life I live and it's $3,000 a month and he doesn't want more. Now, I think it's wrong. >> I think I he thinks it's admirable. like it's not he needs we've had talks with him. He needs to spend more money. He He's lived this life for a while and I think it works in your 20s, right? That lifestyle, degeneracy, sitting around, you know, you're jerking off and just hanging out with your friends. But the lifestyle he has now, he's a 35-year-old, 36-y old dude, it catches up to you at that age. And I think he knows that. So, I believe he's taking steps to get better. But I also know the dude probably just is going to continue doing it the way he does. He's not a guy of change ever. >> Does Does he get a lot of interest from women? >> I'm sure there's a lot of women that are some blonde chick that probably wants to cheat on uh her Republican wife that would probably Asmin in a heartbeat. You know, I'm sure that's the thing. I know Asmin. I know he likes Asian women with big boobs. Um so that's who he's going after. So, if you're an Asian girl with big boobs and you want a nice man to feed you roaches and coughing with spiders in it, he's all yours. He'll make you a $2 steak and you can have it as well cuz he's not taking you out to dinner. I promise you that. He'll bring it. >> But he has he has a natural apprehension to spending money. It's not the fact that he doesn't care at all and he just wants to hang out in his house, but it's that he's like genuinely apprehensive of spending money. >> I think it's just he just doesn't I I'm telling you, man, I've never heard the guy care about money. whenever there's a deal or opportunity, he would just like, dude, you got to realize like this guy know he would have $100,000 sponsors and he'd be like, "I don't want to do it." Like, it's three hours. Why? I don't want to do it cuz I just want to go to bed. You're not going to stay live for 3 hours to do a $100,000 sponsor? Nope. Doesn't want to do it. So, he just wouldn't do the sponsor for 3 hours. It's like any game. He's had offers for like half a million dollars for the dumbest like just stream our game and put a YouTube video up. He's like, "Nah, don't want to." And that he doesn't do it because he just does not care about money. I think he cares much more about his power he has and his political views and his growth of his channel. And I think he knows that if he money is kind of in his way for that because that can make him not care about it as much. You know, if he puts if he cares about money, what will happen is that takes away from his profile who he is. And but I do think he's gonna care about it a little bit. He has to. He can't just keep doing this lifestyle forever. He'll die and he knows that. Like he can't be this degenerate 16-year-old boy that he still acts like sometimes. >> But uh I don't think he's going to change. I don't think he's going to look like you one day with a nice haircut and, you know, a polo shirt or something. >> You haven't seen Jack's living room, though. >> My living room is fine, Graham. That's That's how what Asmin says. I mean, he cleaned his house once. He got cancelled once and cleaned his room, but I and I but I promise you it's probably the same. >> What do you think it would take for him to clean up his his house? Get cancelceled again. It's probably his like method. I don't know. For me, I hang out with um uh two Asian daughters that I have in Japan and I just make a bunch of Tik Toks for him. I think it's just cleaning his room cuz they're like, "Oh, he's changing. Good for him." And he just goes back to normal. So, what about for you though? How are you investing your own money to try to like grow your channel, your brand? The thing is the difference between me and Asmin, right, is Asmin Gold is a React streamer. You go to a stream for him reacting to the news and reacting to videos. His cost of expenses is very low. It's nothing. It's electricity, right? When my cost is a lot higher because people go to my stream, they don't go to my stream for me to react. They don't go to my stream for me to just watch videos and sit there. They go because I have collaborations. they go because I'm trying to do cool stuff and that's what I like to do. I don't like reacting anymore. I used I did it for six years. I'm bored of it. So, what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to go more of a route of finance and this is actually when I called you. I was like I want and cuz I'm 30 now. I don't want to pretend to be 21 anymore. I'm not trying to pretend to cater to this like younger audience, the Faze kids, all that stuff because I I just find it kind of cringe. Like I'm 30. I'm not I'm not a 21-year-old. They they can do it cuz they're young. I'm almost 31, not I'm trying to grasp what I had. And I think a way to do that is finance. I think that's a finance business. I opened up a gym a year and a half ago. It's called Iron Forge Gym. >> No one thought we can do it, but it was super successful. It popped off on Twitch and YouTube. Everyone loved it. And now we have a thousand members. Despite there being eight gyms around us, we have a thousand members. We do MMA fights. How profitable is that? Not a lot. Gyms are a waste of money. Please do not buy a gym because the problem is you have to make have so many members because you have to buy all the equipment. Cost is ridiculous. It was It's like $800,000 in equipment. The >> It's a good write off. >> It's a good write off, but it's extremely expensive. >> So, okay. 800,000 equipment, then a lease you have to sign, and then a buildout. So, you're in at what? 1 2 1 13 like everything all in. >> Yeah. And then our lease is 5 years, I believe. It's not. Was it worth the to do for content and stream? Yes. Was it worth to do cuz we got 1,000 members and we're slightly profitable? Yes. Cuz we're growing still. Okay. >> We were at uh 800 members or 700 members a few months ago. Now we're at a thousand. And it's not because of me anymore. Now it's just word of mouth, which is the best part. >> But it was fun content. I loved it. The chat was learning business. I was learning about business as well. And we really brick and mortar and brick and mortar and it's successful. How much is insurance? No idea. >> You don't know how much someone drops a weight on their foot and they say you you know it's your fault. I got I'm going to sue you because this is >> I'm a big believer in hiring people smarter than you. So I this guy that owns another gym right next to us uh around that area. I was like, "Hey, why don't you come in with us? you're good on stream and you run the gym, so he does all that. But the gym was a success and it's it's going well. Everything's fine. We are slightly profitable. We're using that money to continue to grow the gym a little bit because I don't really care for the profit of a few grand. Um, so the gym's great. What I And I saw that I'm like, "Wait a minute. This is awesome. Chat learned something. They learned business. I learned something." Because that's what I hate about streaming is you're basically trying to pretend you're a young teenager or you're like in the mid like late mid 20s or like late or like early 20s, right? You're trying to pretend you're something that is farther away every year. >> You're trying to pretend that you're this, you know, young person that is friends all around when like I've known these guys for 9 years. Most of them aren't friends, right? It's it's a game. So, I was like, I just want to when I 30, I just want to do stuff that progresses me. And the business was awesome. Chat loved it. I loved it. So, I'm like, well, what else could I do? And I was going to do a I was going to buy a house and fix it up in LA. Then I called you >> and you told me that's a terrible, terrible idea. And I think 100% right. >> Awful idea. Yeah. But when you look at the amount that you would be paying in interest, the amount of property taxes, the restrictions, I'm I'm going through right now, believe it or not, I didn't listen to my own advice and I built out a an ADU in Los Angeles and I looked at the numbers and the numbers were fantastic. Like, I'm talking I'm going to make a more than 12% cash on return on my money with very little work on my end. Going through the city of Los Angeles has been the biggest nightmare of my entire life. If I could just go back in time and just tell myself, don't do that. It's just it's the mental headache. It's not the cash is great. It's just the mental headache of going through the city of Los Angeles has been awful. It has been the worst experience of my life. And they say, "We're in a housing shortage. We want you to build. There are all these incentives right now to build a property in LA." I think, "Oh, it's great. I'm going to take advantage of this because my return is going to be so big for this one specific project on a property I already own. Perfect. >> Impossible. The city inspectors don't want to work. It's like get just getting a phone call back could sometimes take a week. Everything goes to voicemail. It's awful. It's a whole antiquated system. You dodged a bullet on that one. >> Yeah. Well, you helped me cuz I was going to do it and take a loan out, but then I called you and you told me not to do it >> and instead what you told me, which I greatly appreciate, you said, "You know what you should do for content?" cuz I'm like, "Look, I want to get in the business. I'm not sure what to do. What do you think would do well on stream?" And you're like, "Why don't you fix a car cuz that's what's blowing up on YouTube right now." And I didn't really know about it. I'm like, "Yeah, that sounds great. I can learn maybe a car thing." But I looked at the videos. I'm like, "Holy, this is huge." I didn't realize repairing cars is such a big deal. >> Yeah. >> And how well it's doing. The all these channels are getting millions of views. Matt Armstrong is leading the charge. >> So, I'm like, "Yeah, why not?" So, I bought a car on a betterbid.com. I bought a car and it was a up Lambo for $145,000 after all the everything was said and done. So, I saw that. So, my logic when I told you that was that I got really inspired by Tavarish who bought the P1 Hooie's Garage who buys like clunkers and then fixes them up a little bit. And then our friend Beiaza, he bought a Lamborghini and an i8 >> and he fixed it up himself part-time and his video was incredible. And I saw that I'm like, "Oh my gosh, that's a like I would be doing that if I had more time and I had the editing skills that they have." >> Uh, and so that's why I recommended it to you >> on that on that car, man. I think you overpaid for it. I mean, >> I did. >> That's the issue. That car I would say in my opinion should have been worth just looking at it just just seeing it on the thing. 115 I think would have been a safe uh bet because then there's enough margin there where when you overspend on it, you're going to be like coming out ahead or break even. You're right. But that price because you could get like a fully like a nice one for 210 to 220 with the higher mileage. But like you're going to spend too much money on that car. Here was my problem though is I really wanted a Lamborghini Huracan to fix up because I think it's good SEO, but what I also think is good about it is I just I do love Lamborghinis. Like I I always wanted one. The problem is getting one on a better bid and having it to be content because that's opportunity cost cuz I have no content. Uh, so for me it's very tough to figure out what to do next. And I'm like, okay, I know this is going to be a little bit pricey. When I was bidding on it, I'm like, this is going a little bit higher than I want. I was hoping for like 120 in total, 115, 125. It went up to 145 and I was really hoping it wouldn't, but opportunity cost. If I wait for another car, now I have to stall for a month of content, and that's stress that I don't need, and that's money that I'm not making cuz I'm not streaming. So, I was like, why not just buy the car? So, I did bid on it. I did win it and it blew the up all over everywhere which made me really happy and I didn't realize how many car enthusiasts are because I started posting Tik Toks and it started blowing up. >> I started posting just like an hourong video of us fixing up the car and it started blowing up. >> But what was great is West Coast Customs messaged me and they're like look >> our guy the the CEO's son is a huge World of Warcraft fan and he watched love loves Only Fanks. He likes Only Thanks. And I'm like, you know, uh, he's like, you should make your car here. I'm like, that's perfect. That's best content scenario is the biggest car place in the world is making my car with me. And it's been awesome. Like, I'm going to make a a whole series out of it for months. So, it was worth. But I do agree with you. Did I overpay? Absolutely. >> Why not go and copart? >> That No, that's that's what I did is a copart. >> Better bid. >> Better bids. >> Oh, I'm stupid. Copart. >> Okay. >> I want a copart. >> Okay. You did. Yeah. Okay. Now, when Jack and I started the Ice Coffee Hour now almost 6 years ago, we had to figure out everything ourselves. From the best cameras to use, the best editing equipment, how to get guests, every day had a brand new challenge. That's why if you're starting or growing your own business, you know how valuable today's sponsor is, and that would be Shopify. For those unaware, Shopify is basically your all-in-one business partner. They power millions of businesses worldwide, from major brands like Mattel and Gym Shark to everyday entrepreneurs just getting started. And fun fact, if you shopped online in the United States, chances are you did business with Shopify because they power about 10% of all American e-commerce. Plus, what's great about Shopify is that they give you access to a complete design studio with hundreds of readytouse templates to build a beautiful online store that perfectly matches your brand. There's no coding needed, and their AI tools even help you write product descriptions and enhance your product photos. Shopify also makes marketing very easy with simple email and social campaigns to reach your customers wherever they're scrolling. They also handle everything from inventory to shipping to returns, all the complicated stuff that you probably don't want to deal with. So, if you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big business ideas into. So, if you're interested, sign up for your $1 a month trial period at shopify.com/ic. Again, that is shopify.com/ic with a link down below in the description. Thank you again to Shopify for sponsoring this episode. Dude, the West Coast Customs thing is big. Like, you have like even for me, West Coast Customs was my entire teenage years was watching Pimp My Ride. >> And it was all West Coast Customs and I would look at those cars and dream of like, oh man, one day if I have a car that's West Coast Customs, that would be the thing. Well, you know, is is on the first day I went there, it was fun as the people there are great. They're so charismatic because they're used to being in front of cameras. >> Yeah. >> Chief Keef was there. I was like, "What's up, bro?" So, I hung out with Chief Keef for like a second. I told him I'd make his Lamborghini for him. He probably forgot me in two seconds cuz he was whatever. He wasn't paying attention. But, >> um, there's always celebrities coming in. So, there's there's chances I would see them as I make the car. It's a whole new thing. And my chat, I didn't know how much they would love it. They love it. They're so attentive. They're typing like crazy. Hey, like get this part. Do this. Do that. Um they love the whole process. And I'm like, "Wow, this is great. You're learning something. I'm learning something." And we're building something together that is not stressful for me for streaming. Cuz the thing that sucks about streaming sometimes and being the content creator of more IRL, you have to find out what the are you doing that day? What am I really going to do that's going to make these people want to watch me? And that's so hard to do, especially as you get older because your chat gets older, too. And they're like, I don't want to watch you sit there and hang out with girls all day. That's what I do. Or I don't want to watch you sit there and play, you know, a dumb game. I What do 30-year-olds want? They want to learn about money. They want to grow their their their empire themselves. And they want to start a family. They want to they don't want or politics. They don't want to deal with this. Back to Asminold. He's very smart. He's a very smart dude and he knows and understands these trends. Asmin Gold first started off as a WoW streamer and he knew that WoW is not going to be there forever. So what he did is he started to react to videos and those react videos did really well, >> drama videos, gaming. He was really into gaming first, like reacting to World of Warcraft game videos. Then it was more gaming industry. He's slowing he's slowly expanding. Okay, now he's got more people watching gaming industry. Then from gaming industry he went to just the industries in general right he started getting more into technology and talking about that and now he has the biggest web of them all which is politics and he's 35 years old right so that's smart to do because you're growing with your your your age you need to do that because if you don't do that then you're just holding on to something you once had and that's not smart I think for for stream I think it can come off especially a lot of times as like cringe where it's like, oh well, you're just trying to be this younger person. You know, you want to grow up and you also want a new directory of people that can watch you. There's a lot of people who now follow me from the car stuff. Like, I don't even know who the hell you are. >> The car community is massive. Like, our biggest episodes tend to be with >> Doug Deur Doug. Oh my god. Carish. Yeah. >> Yeah. But that community because cars are like everyone likes cars for the most part. Especially like if if you are into money, chances are you like cars. And if you like cars, it's probably you also like watches to some degree. And so all of it overlaps, but that is just like really good fun content. It's it's relatable and it's aspirational because when someone gets like a Lamborghini, I always thought when I was like a teenager, oh, I could get this salvage like, you know, 2005 Lamborghini Gallardo for $50,000 and I can drive a Gallardo for 50 grand. It's like I I could wrap my mind around how that's possible for me. >> Yeah. And I think what's fun about the chat is them seeing that Don't do that. It's a waste of money with me because they're like, "Holy, fixing this car is so damn expensive and Miz is wasting a lot of money." You're right. I am. But, you know, I can because I'm streaming it. It's You can't really lose because I'm just going to stream more or stream a lot if I need to make more money for the car, >> dude. And there's so much you could do with the car, too. Like straight piping the car, putting a wing on the car, wrapping the car, different rims on the car. You could do so much to >> We just did a design stream. There was 20,000 people watching me just design the car and they were so attentive. They were watching it. They were making polls. >> They loved it. >> That is true. There's a massive community doing that on YouTube, but it hasn't really gotten to like the live viewer audience yet. So, you could kind of pioneer that. >> And the thing is you're starting I hate to say it low enough, but with the Huracan that there is so much room to go up from up from there. Like now like Tavvarish set the bar so high on YouTube with a P1 and now he bought a Porsche 918 >> and that's like a $1.8 million $2 million car and then Hooie just bought a 300 SL Mercedes and it's like the bar on YouTube is now like plus $2 million. >> Yeah, >> my bar is going to probably go lower after the Lambo. Like what I want to get after this is like some early form of the Camaro. >> I think it'd be cool if you flip the car. I've been watching a lot of like the car fl I bought it for this. Oh, there's a guy Doug something. He has a series right now that's like blowing him up which is buying or flipping cars until I can afford my dream car. And they're really really good videos and they're getting Yeah, they're getting like a million views a pop. He went from like I think he literally zero subscribers to like 100,000 after the second video in the series. >> It's crazy. How much are you gonna spend on a Lambo >> to fix it and to make it running? It's about $65,000 to do all the cool I want to do to it, which is get a uh a kit. I want to get a wide body kit for it and, you know, some air suspension and also new exhaust possibly and tuning it. You're looking at another 100 grand. >> Okay. I would tell you not to do all I tell you just get it running, >> enjoy the car, then wrap it. >> But it depends how much money he's making from the stream. >> I'm just saying the you're not going to get a positive ROI on a widebody and tuning the >> Not everything's about money, Graham. >> Tuning the car. I'm going to tell you a big waste of money. >> I agree. >> You're the resale on that. the re I mean listen the resale is already kind of messed up but you mess it up even more when you're like you got a salvaged car that was in a bad accident and you tune it and it's just and it's going to make the car slightly less reliable >> but if I can do two streams tuning the car I'll pay for the tuning >> but you could do two streams wrapping the car or or you could like wrap it why >> cuz I it's cooler that you have a wide body kit when you get that you get from Tokyo that's like a it's a it's going to a one ofone custom car. That's the whole point of West Coast Customs. You're doing something you completely unique. This car is going to be one of one. If I just get a a wrap, that's boring. Like I want to make this thing look sick as hell. >> Yeah, but can't you get a different body kit on it? Like make it look like a a different car. Like uh >> see, I'm not smart with cars, so I don't know. But every guy who's telling me says my car is sick and I should keep it. And to me, yes, I'm spending way too much money. I'm not I obviously know that >> there's going to be some finance comments saying you're stupid. But to me, it's good content and that is worth the money. Now, is that worth 100 grand? To me, I don't know. That's a good question. Depends on my videos, too. >> Would you say, is streaming harder than a 9 to5? >> Yes. And I'm not I'm not kidding you. >> Is that like a 100% resound? Yes. >> Well, here's the thing. It depends on the nineto-5. You go to an average nineto-5. What does that even mean nowadays? Right? I have friends back home in New Jersey where they're 9 to5 is they wake up, they're on their computer for maybe two to three hours a day. Half the time they're doing something else, watching YouTube videos or even streams. That's their work. And they pretend that they do eight hours a day, 5 days a week. It's I know what they do. Nothing. that. Yes, my job is harder than a lot of people's fake tech jobs that they have where they're writing chat GBT emails, where they're just answering a bunch of stuff for maybe an hour to a day. Yes, my job is harder than that. >> What would you compare it to? >> You're an entrepreneur. You don't stop working. I'm always thinking about my stream, my content, how to grow, what I can do better, if this is good content, because that's what it takes to be a top streamer. You need to be working 24/7. It's not a job, it's a lifestyle. Streaming has to become your life. If it's not, you will never make it. You have to make sure that you're always caring, always trying to do more, always trying to do better because that's how difficult it is to do nowadays, right? It's it's it's impossible to get into streaming. >> I agree with you. I think it's not just being in front of the camera, but it's also strategy, title, thumbnail, and you have to constantly think about it. And if you're not working harder than everyone else, >> you're going to fall off and no one's going to watch you. >> It's a lot of stress mentally. It's a lot of pressure mentally. The reward is there for sure money-wise, right? But it's a lot of stress, pressure dealing with stuff. And what's difficult about it is not necessarily that that you have to go live. It's you have to go live and put out a show. Now with all this pressure, with the stress you have involved, you have to entertain for eight hours straight. You know, you have a bad day, you're not feeling good, doesn't matter. You have to go live and you have to put on a smile and entertain for eight hours or people are staring you down in a camera or you have to hang out with people and do that. Most normal jobs you can kind of fake it because it's a lot easier. You're not having to entertain. You might just have to put on a smile. But for streaming, you have to entertain to keep the viewers there. Um, so I would say my job is definitely harder than most 9 to5s today. I would say is my job harder than a garbage man or someone that actually works construction or a job like that? No. Um, I think that they work way harder than us because it's physical labor. I think those jobs are much more difficult. But a lot of jobs that are your mundane jobs nowadays that people work three hours and pretend they work 40 hours a week. Yeah, my job's harder than your job. So the whole environment of streaming is way harder to grow now, but you kind of you had a really strong growth I feel like when you first kind of I I guess started on that that growth journey. What would you say are the top three things that you did in order to explode on Twitch? Uh, well, I personally when I I studied Twitch, so I didn't just come into Twitch saying I'm a viewer. I didn't watch Twitch for fun. I watched Twitch to study what they do and how I could do it better. So, I watched Twitch for about 3 years constantly learning what people do. I watched the top streamers, Sodapop and Greek Godex, Reckful. I watched what they do and I said, "How can I make that mine? How can I grow myself?" And what I did, I was like, "I have an idea." I was driving to Florida with my dad. I'm like, why don't I make documentaries on streamers? And what I'll do is I'll make it funny. I'll make it dumb, not as serious. And I'll send it to them because they need content. That's the one thing that streamers need is content all the time. And they love their egos being boosted. So, I made this the videos wholesome, sweet, and funny, right? And I'll take the react of them, put it on my channel, slowly grow my YouTube, and then hopefully become a streamer one day through that. So, what I did is I made these videos. I made a video called Who is Tyler One? And I was with my friend named Glink at the time and he's like, "Dude, you know what you should do? Take this video and tweet it to everybody because I just finished it after two weeks of working non-stop." Said, "Tweet it and let's see what happens." And Tyler did not react to it. Michaela, who's his girlfriend at the time, did not react to it. Tyler's brother named E-Rob watched the video because he has no content and he drinks all day. So he watched the video on stream and he told his chat to go push it. They did cuz they were like this video is funny as and it blew up from there. It went from getting 100 views in a day to tens of thousands to now it has like five or six million. And I started doing that for a lot of the content creators at the time and it blew everything up I had. From there, uh, I got invited to go on an RV trip with Ice Boseidon. I'm sure you guys are aware who he is. I went on an RV trip with him. And then I basically started on Twitch with like 30 viewers, but I had all the connections. So, I started just, you know, going in the chats and talking, >> but I always knew I was like more entertaining than most streamers. Most streamers are kind of introverted than scared. I knew I was better collabing. So, I just used that and my connections to slowly grow over time. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Like, how fast did it take for you to make turn it into a viable business? Uh, it happened in about five months. I knew I was going to make it. Like I went from the from the second I clicked Photoshop and started making that video in Adobe Premiere to being able to say I'm I could do this >> was about 5 months. But keep in mind back then there was no money on Twitch. The top streamers were maybe making $1,000 a day in ad revenue. It was not this business now where people were making millions a month. >> So when would you say you started making real money? >> I started making real money in 2019. And when I started was there were sponsors started to pop up more cuz they realized this industry is really good to get into. And I remember there was a sponsor for Day Z on the Xbox and I got $12,000 for 2 hours. It sucked. My viewership dropped dramatically. No one cared, but I got $12,000 and I'm like, "Wait a minute. If this keeps happening and I keep growing, I'll be rich. I can make money from this. I can grow my business." So that's when I realized this is real. Because what's interesting is before 2019, 2018 Twitch to to 2012, it was all through donations. There was no subbing. There was no ads. You just made money through donations. So, a lot of the top streamers back then, like Reckful or Sodapoppin, they would get donations from these Oilers. We'd call them oil princes, and they would be like $20,000 sometimes, $30,000. Huge donations that would just come in from straight up oil princes. I had one one of mine, his name was Hammad, and he's an oil prince uh from Saudi Arabia and he would just give me tens of thousands of dollars when I was small. >> What did he want? >> He wanted me to be successful. He's like, "I believe in you." And he called me one time uh on Skype in 2019 and he was in a Rolls-Royce in the middle of the desert and he showed me his others and he had like four other cars just sitting right there and then he went 100 miles an hour and he got banned on Twitch. >> Where is he now? >> He's in Dubai. Do you talk to him still? >> He comes to my chat. He says, "What's up?" He puts a remote called Tryhard, which was pretty popular back then. He puts that and just leaves. Like, "What's up, bro?" Yeah. I still talk to a lot of my old viewers. They're around. >> If you were to be able to invest in three streamers right now, who do you think who do you think has the most growth potential? >> You know, that's going to be a question I don't even know if I can answer because the truth is I think that with Twitch's massive decline in viewership, I wouldn't invest in anybody because Twitch is a dying platform. It's dying because of its ads and it's dying quick. Twitch is down 25% this year. Twitch is continuing to fall since the peak in 2021. I don't think I would invest in anybody. I would hold my money and wait till GTA 6 comes out in six or seven months and I would find streamers there. My belief is I think that Twitch is slowly going to keep dying. There's no good games. No one wants to watch it. But when GTA 6 comes out, I think Twitch is going to double in viewership in a day and it's just going to hold that for a long time. GTA 6 RP is going to be huge. When you see that, that's when I would invest in those streamers. The small ones that are funny, interesting, bam, now the market's hot, right? Who can I invest in to grow? That's where I would go. >> Yeah. But for streamers, what couldn't that include Kick or going on like Tik Tok Live? Yes, it could. But I don't trust Kick's numbers. And Tik Tok live is you're there today, gone tomorrow. It Twitch is something where if you are able to hold a community and you're consistent, you'll probably hold that community at least decently. Um but the thing is right now is people aren't really growing. Um the top streamers are not who who are so viral in every other aspect, Tik Tok, everything. They're only getting like 10 to 15k viewers on their normal streams. That's nothing. These guys are way bigger than I ever was. >> How many people are view botting? uh a decent amount. So Twitch actually recently took down view bots and the views on every plat or a lot of streamers dropped like 20 to 25%. Um viewbots have definitely taken over the website over the past few years. It has been something that most streamers have known about. But the thing is, and this is what people don't understand, is they think that it's always the streamer that does it. I know I get viewbotted. I'm not stupid. I know that there are people outside of me that viewbot me. Hell, I have been viewbotted before with a sponsor, right? So, a sponsor will be there and they, you know, viewbot you so you look like you get more views because who really is going to care? Let's say you're sponsored by Sony, right? They have a marketing department. That marketing department hires another marketing department who then finds your agency who then pays you, right? There's a huge line of of chain. Okay, let's say this marketing team here boosts your numbers just a little bit and they report back to Sony and they say, "Hey, look, the numbers were great." Sony doesn't give a They're Sony. So, these these agencies viewbot a lot of streamers all the time to upsell them like crazy. And that's what's happened a lot on Twitch. I don't believe a lot of these streamers know they're getting botted. I think the truth is a lot of the time with these streamers is the agency is the one doing it. It's also proven that viewers viewbot streamers all the time. Tyler one was uh viewbotted for years by one viewer. His name was like Tyler Lol Tyler one laughing at you. And he found out he was botting him and he banned him and he got probed on Twitch and then Tyler's numbers dropped dramatically cuz for years this guy was just botting his stream. >> Why would he do that? >> He likes him. >> So he just wants to make him look better. >> Yeah. How expensive is it to view bot? >> Uh it's it depends. So, there's embedding. Embedding is very expensive because you're paying for an inbed. And then normal botting is super cheap. It's like I mean, I don't know the prices. I'm not going to pretend I do know the prices, but I know it's not nearly as expensive to bot rather than to embed. >> Wouldn't it be obvious though if you're not just getting the like as many comments or do they fake the comments, too? >> So, nowadays there are bots that apparently can fake comments and they can fake uh subscribing to you. So, it's pretty crazy nowadays. It's not some small thing. There are some times where like, you know, viewers view bot like there's I remember one time in April of last year, 2023, I don't even remember where I averaged 50,000 viewers in a month cuz just some guy was just viewing the out of me, Hassan, and Pokemon all day. I liked it. I didn't care. I was like, cool. I'm just going to sit here and play, you know, mind sweeper with 50,000 viewers. I was just doing whatever the I wanted. Um, but it's it's tough to say if it's obvious or not. Some viewers sometimes, yes. It's something that you can't really control and there's nothing you can really do. And with your agency, right, it's like, well, I know this is happening. I'm just not going to say anything. Like, I've been botted by agencies before. I just don't say anything cuz I don't really care. Makes my numbers look better. And if it works for the the guy up top, it works for me. And it's interesting because people are like, well, companies must hate that. That's fraud, right? This fraud is a problem, >> right? >> The front page of Twitch is embedded. So if you go to Twitch right now, the front page is a carousel and companies will pay a lot of money to be in the front of Twitch. So that way, you know, they their their streamer might get an extra 10,000 viewers, but it's not real. Everyone on the front page of Twitch is not watching that streamer. It's just they're on the front page and not paying attention, right? So they companies will pay for it. They know that embeds happen. A lot of times they just don't care because they're like, "Well, I'm trying to hit my KPIs to go to that agency and say we did a good job." That's wild. I wonder if now some of the advertisers are becoming aware of this like fe fake viewing problem on Twitch and that's why the AdSense revenue payout started going down and why creators are now putting a bunch more ads in so fewer people and then they start botting and it's kind of like uh I don't think that's it. I think the reason why Twitch is losing money is because there are I I just think in my opinion I mean I know some stuff that extra but I believe that the return on investment for these advertisers is so low and Twitch asks for so much money it's not worth it. They're going to Tik Tok where the KPIs are better. They're getting, you know, better return on their investment for tenth the price. That's true. I think a lot of the viewers are pretty AFK on Twitch anyways. And so like you're not if you're paying for someone with like 10,000 viewers, you're probably only getting like 2,000. >> Let me ask you this question. If I play a game, you're paying me three playing a game on Twitch for 3 hours, right? Okay. That first hour, you may be like talking, doing your talking points, and people might be interested or not interested, but do you really think they're going to be interested in the second hour or the third? Why are you still paying me? It's it's it's a depreciation every single hour that you're losing that retention that the viewer might be AFK that the viewership is continuing to go down because whenever you do ads your numbers go down, right? So it's like well what's the return? And the answer is it's so low after that first hour. So companies are realizing and what they're doing now is they're going based off of clicks. They're going off of other metrics. They're not just going off of viewership because they can't. And what's interesting is cuz I own Mythic Talent. I own an agency. The best people who are in the industry that make the most money for sponsors through clicks is VTubers. By far their community is gungho and just clicks on everything they tell you to. They buy everything you say. They are loyalist and they have so much money because they're all just a bunch of engineers that, you know, like VTubers, they have a lot of money. Mhm. >> People that have the least are usually the younger kids now, the generations that are 15, 16 years old. They don't have all this money in the world. Uh, you know, so they don't even click a lot of the time cuz they're on mobile. That's what a lot of viewers on mobile. >> So, you started a gaming organization back in 2020 called OTK. I'm curious, was that profitable? And what was the purpose behind doing it? >> So, OTK, the point of it was to basically create an org where we all make content together and then we would one day sell the org, right? We wanted to sell OTK uh to a company where it's like, hey, you're in charge of this now and we basically take a step back at around this time of my age. I was like, I'm around when we're all 30, 35, whatever. We take a step back. There's new young blood in the OTK sphere and we just basically chill. Well, that failed miserably because the truth is, uh, orgs in general just no one wanted to buy it. And it makes sense why you don't want to buy it, right? In 2018, it was such a hot word or group. Uh, Hundred Thieves sold for hundred million dollars or something like that. They made a ton of money off that deal. But when we got in, we got in too late. And all the companies started becoming smart. And they're just like, "Okay, well, cuz it was me and Asmin were the two biggest people. They're like, "Okay, but what happens if Msk and Asmin take a huge break?" And we're like, "Oh, well that won't happen." Well, Asmin did for 8 months. They know that. Like when Nasmin took a break, you guys lost a lot. What happens when one of your streamers gets cancelled? What happens when there's a controversy? It it you over the whole business. So unless you guys are squeaky clean Teletubbies, you're basically asking for this to be a failure. And no one took the bite. We did not get we got uh the truth is it just didn't make sense for anyone to ever purchase and it didn't make sense to really run and operate. So now it's very small. I don't do OTK anymore because I moved here. They're all in Texas. But the thing is we still have Mythic Talent, which is our agency that's under it's an umbrella, so it's under it. And we do have Star Forge Systems. Star Forge PCs. They're huge. They're everywhere. Uh they actually are great PCs. And we started that business on Twitch. We actually got really lucky. What happened was we made Star Forge PCs and we're all like part of it, right? We're all owners. We're great OTK. And when we made the PC company, we actuallyeded up real bad. There was a piece in the computer that we didn't know was cheap when we first made the computers. And this guy was a reviewer of computers and he was on Twitch and he got clipped. Shout out to this guy who clipped this and he said and he was a big YouTuber who exposes computer companies like I'm going to ruin Star Forge and they these guys don't understand that if they just changed this one wire from $10 to $20 they'd have a great PC but they're being cheap as so we saw that and we're like okay let's just change that part. Boom. Everyone's like wait their PCs are amazing. So we literally got saved by that guy clipping us and us realizing that. Then um Lionus Tech Tips reviewed our PC and we were scared. like, "Holy, we're done." He loved it. He thought our PCs were amazing. From day one, he's like, "These are great PCs. A little bit messy, but nothing crazy." And then Asmin reacted to it, which then blew it the up. It went to like 7 million views. It's one of his biggest videos ever. And then from there, it's just been huge success. We sponsor streamers. We get a, you know, for a little bit and then they get a lot because there's no real computer companies on Twitch anymore. So, we don't have really any competition. We just give people money and then we make a return on our investment. How much does the computer company make? >> Uh, it's in the tens of millions of dollars now, I'm sure. I don't look at it every single day, but I know it's a growing business that is continuing to grow and they are super successful. I mean, the dude >> So, what do you get? Do you just get distributions or so every month? >> Oh, uh, currently right now we do not get any distributions. We are literally putting it all back in cuz we fully believe this company could be huge one day. Like, I think it could be worth $100 million. >> How much do you own of that? >> Uh, I own a decent chunk of it because it's an umbrella under OTK. I'm not going to say numbers, but yeah. Uh, like we all own a decent amount of every company that we own. >> So, what percentage of streams do you think are manufactured content versus actual real organic, you know, behavior? >> What do you mean manufactured? >> Like sort of trying to get a clip and like exaggerated behavior or like even faked content. Do you think there's a lot of faked content on Twitch? >> No. I I mean, it depends on the person. There's a lot of people that are trying to farm clips a lot. a lot of the younger guys, uh, that's because their audience likes it. They grow from it. Is it fake? It's improv. That's all it is. It's not faked. They don't fake clips usually. It's more like this happened in this scenario and they're improving it to get a clip. I do it all the time. Like, you're just figuring things out. They're like, "That's a funny moment. That's all it is. Most clips are just funny actions or moments." The the new viewers, the new streamers are very entertaining. They're good at what they do and they understand that clips push their channel very far. So, they just do more improv all the time. They're not thinking necessarily what's the best stream. They're thinking what's the best thing I could do next to farm a clip to bring out that improv side of me. Who would you say is the most overrated streamer right now? >> Although, really quick, I just want to say here's a reminder. Remember that doctor's appointment that you were supposed to be making a few weeks ago? Maybe it's just been sitting there for months now. Perhaps it's that annual visit you've been putting off or the weird rash you've been googling or your dentist reminding you it's been 2 years since your last visit and you haven't been flossing. Trust me, we've all been there. Booking a doctor's appointment is always a big hassle until now. That is where our sponsor Zach Talk comes in. For those unaware, Zach Dog is a free app and website that allows you to search and compare highquality in-et network doctors and then click to instantly book an appointment. With Soft Dock, you could filter by insurance, location, medical specialty, and even look at verified patient reviews so that you know exactly what you're walking into. And then once you find the right doctor, you could see their real time availability and pick an appointment during a time that works best with you. Plus, appointments through ZDOC typically happen pretty fast, usually within 24 to 72 hours of booking. And you might be able to even grab sameday appointments. So, stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to zoddock.com/istic to find and instantly book a toprated doctor today. Again, that is zoocdoc.com/iced zdock.com/ed with the link down below. Thank you so much, Zdoc, for sponsoring this episode. And now, let's get back to the podcast. I just want to say that running a business could be very exciting, but things like payroll, taxes, and benefits could be a total time suck. Unfortunately, doing this still has to get done no matter what. But with your sponsor, Gusto, the entire process is so much easier. I actually used Gusto long before we partnered with them. In fact, when I first worked with Graham that very first year, I needed to run payroll. And so, where did I go? I went to Gusto. I had no clue where to start with tax filings, benefits, deadlines. It was super overwhelming. But fortunately, Gusto walked me through every single step and I've been using them ever since. Gusto is an online payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. It's all-in-one, remote friendly, and super easy to use, so you can pay, hire, onboard, and support your team from anywhere. They've got automatic payroll, tax filing, direct deposit, health benefits, workers comp, commuter benefits, and even 401k options. Everything you'd need, but without the stress. And they have something for practically every budget. You also get unlimited payroll runs for one monthly price. There are no hidden fees, no surprises. Plus, they have certified HR experts you can reach out to if anything tricky comes up. Switching to Gusto is quick. Just transfer over your existing data to get up and running fast. And you don't pay anything until you run your first payroll. So try Gusto today at gusto.com/istic or click the link down below in the description and you will get 3 months for free when you run your first payroll. That is gusto.com/istic. Again, gusto.com/istic with the link down below in the description. Who would you say is the most overrated streamer right now? >> Uh, probably me, honestly. Uh, who's the most overrated streamer? I don't really know. I don't watch a lot of streams. I can tell you who I think is the best streamer right now. Uh, I do think it's Speed. I think Speed is the best content creator right now in terms of just what he's been doing and his movement he's had. I think there's other ones, too. Like, there's this guy named Stable Ronaldo. >> I think he's a >> We filmed on him yesterday. >> Oh, really? Yeah. >> Genuinely funny, witty dude. like he to me is someone that I he reminds me of myself when I was younger where I just didn't understand the world. He's like a non-jaded version of me and I think he's a really good streamer. >> I was surprised cuz I had watched his content and it's obviously like I can't get into it. >> But talking to him, he's so strategic and like very smart, very calculated. >> He's a good dude. >> He's not dumb. Like he's very articulate. >> Yeah. He knows what he's doing. He knows how to play the game. He's good with clips. He's just a genuinely funny dude and he's I do think he has a lot of room to grow cuz I think when you go on Twitch there's a lot of streamers that you're like well this guy's probably better as a clip. I think Ron is a great streamer. I think his whole stream is just good. He's Would I watch it? No. He's too young for me to care, right? I'm not going to watch a 21-year-old all day. Um but I also just watch Gossip Girls. So who am I talking? But >> at the same time, I'm not watching Ron. But I think he's a great stream. I've seen his streams. I'm like, "Yeah, this guy gets it." Was there ever a moment in time where you genuinely considered quitting streaming? Oh, yeah. All the time. I I wanted to quit streaming. I started having ideas of quitting or retiring 5 years ago. And my dream was always when I'm 30, I'll quit because I said to myself, I know how mentally exhausting this job is cuz it's very mentally exhausting. And I was like, at 30 I'll have enough money to quit. 30 I'll retire. Well, I'm 30. And um it's not necessarily that I'm I'm not retired. I just I've definitely taken a step back. I stream 6 days a week, 8 hours a day, but um I don't see myself retiring anytime soon. Retirement sounds boring as I just thought about it. I was like, it's a great idea for about 2 weeks and then you're bored. I'm curious, being a pretty big person on Twitch. I mean, you could say you have celebrity. I imagine there's a lot of really interesting opportunities that come alongside that. What would you say are like some of the craziest DMs you've gotten from people >> is that I'm a celebrity cuz I'm like that's just not true. I'm not a celebrity. >> No, I think that you have celebrity, right? Like if you go and like I mean there were literally like 5 minutes ago people were like freaking out as they were walking by. I don't know if that was because of this guy. >> Maybe that's because of us like oh my god or Yeah. I don't know. I mean they were Yeah. But anyways, I think that I'm sure you get a lot of crazy opportunities in DMs and stuff like that. What would you say is the craziest opportunity like that? I mean, I don't really think that opportunities, but yeah. Like, this thing is streamers are just so transformative with their content that we're just so well known, right? Cuz you guys make a video and then you have to like make clips yourself or try to organize how to be strategic. Dude, with streamers, we just have clippers that just clip our cuz they're trying to grow their brand. You know, stake logos are on our We can have I can make five Tik Toks in a day just by being an idiot on Twitch. So for us, it's so easy every day to make content that we're just so known now that yeah, like I get recognized all the time, but those people don't watch me and they're like, "Oh, wow, dude. I love this stream." Half the time they're like My Keefe or Mixkif because they just seen my clips. And yes, like I'm very well known. I walk down the street people sometimes most of the time people recognize me, but it's never really it's not usually in a way of like I love your content. It's like, I saw you play Mario 64 years ago on a clip or like, yeah, your sister's was showing and I saw your face. It's It's never like a genuine moment. It It is sometimes, don't get me wrong, but most of the time it's it's just clipping. >> That's so interesting cuz I feel like whenever we get recognized, it's like they watch the podcast and so they see us once a week for like two hours a week and so they know a lot about what's going on. It's very rare like, "Hey, aren't you that one guy?" >> Dude, it's so funny. Every time people uh come up to me, they're like, "Dude, did Jack get a girlfriend yet?" >> They always ask about your dating life. >> Speaking of, >> so is Jack dating someone right now? >> Speaking of, I'm curious. How is it dating as a streamer? >> How is it dating as a streamer? It's terrible. >> Really? >> Oh, yeah. >> Why? Because you you it's well when you date someone else that's a streamer. Like you want to usually date that someone understands your business or like what you're going through, right? That's hell because what happens is Twitch is a high school. That's all it is. It's a glorified high school. You have the people sitting at the lunch table with the nerds, the geeks. You have the people that are losers. Um you know, you've got the sports guys, whoever. You have all these lunch tables at this t in high school. It's all it is. It's just a high school. And if you date someone, what happens is, you know, friends pick sides usually in that high school. That's what happens. They leave you or they leave them. So when you break up with someone, it usually put the whole fune of the website almost. And it can cause a lot of drama or indirect problems for you uh throughout your career. And it's definitely done that for me. It's definitely done it for a lot of other streamers. I will never date another streamer again in my life dating. I mean, there's a lot of wh so it depends on the streamer. I'm one that I bring on a lot of women and I also use women a lot on stream. So, a lot of women do come to me being like, I'll you just bring me on your stream. Um, but I'm very against >> straight up tell you that. >> Well, that's so obvious. They're like in my DMs trying to hang out with me like off stream to then like be like, "Oh, come on stream." Or >> how do they know? How do you know they're not just genuinely interested in you? Bro, I am not. No way. I am. There's no way. >> You don't think there's any chance they like genuinely are >> Bro, half the time these girls that are trying to go on my stream, they have like husbands and and they're like, "Yeah, I want to you basically just for the flirt with me and then be like, "Come on my stream." And then they make money. I've had girls come on my stream sometimes. They make like 10 20k in a day just going on my stream. >> How? Because my viewers are coomers to the max. They're just Twitch chatters. They're like, "Ooh, boobs." And they go nuts. >> How do they make the money though? Is it like a funnel to only fans or something? >> Only fans. They just bend over real quick. Be like, "You dropped your controller." And then I'm like, "You, you made more money than me today." That's literally what happens. >> Do you get them to pay you to come on your stream? >> Biggest regret of my streaming career is I never made an Fans agency. I up. >> Why don't you start one now? >> Because I feel like there was a time for that. I'm a car guy. >> I'm I know you're a car guy. >> I just don't want to do it. Like I It's like I've I've done it for seven years. I brought on only fans girls and did that. I'm not trying to redo that again when I've just slowly gotten away from it. What do you think of Jack Dohy doing that? >> Uh, he's Oh, you asked me who's the worst streamer. Jack Dory. He gets 300 viewers and he's still the worst, most overrated streamer. He sucks. He's actually a He's like a terrible person. Uh, what do I think of him? I think any girl that's with him is very sad and I think he's a sad human being in general and everyone feels that way. He's just a loser. Like he's the worst. >> Do you think that perhaps there could be some strategy behind what he's doing? And he has this persona because it makes it talkable. >> Yeah. No, there's definitely a strategy with what he is, but I also know from firsthand from people who hung out with him, he's just a dick. Like, it's not just this like, "Oh, I'm a strategist." It's like, "Oh, well, I'm this piece of let's use this cuz he's just a dickhead." So, I will say in his defense, >> anyone that's willing to do what he did to like bothering people on the street, you're a [ __ ] Like, you're just a bad person. So, I will say in in his defense, 5 years ago, we had him on the podcast and it was an early podcast, like 8:00 in the morning on like a weekday >> and I was thinking cuz I was not familiar with him and I saw his content. I'm like, there's no way this kid is going to be on time cuz I saw him pulling pranks on neighbors and like disturbing the piece and that. I thought he was going to come in late, was going to be just like >> disrespectful. >> Disrespectful. My gosh, he shows up like 5 minutes early. He's so kind, so nice. Now granted, that podcast was 5 years ago, but like he really seems sincere like back then in person. >> It's easy to fake for two hours. >> I mean, we spoke off camera and everything. He might be sincere to some people, but he also could I I genuinely believe that kid was a nuisance since day one. I mean, he just I've seen his videos from 10 years ago, and he's still a prick. like he's just a dick kid that doesn't have to grow up. I You could tell me all you want that he was good on your podcast. I'm sure he was cuz he probably saw opportunity, but he was just that guy. You know, when you dangle views in my face, I'm going to change because I can grow. Especially when I'm small. >> What about like people like Vitali or Johnny Somali, like streamers like that that are now in jail. >> Do I I mean, I truly believe that f I mean, you know how it is. fame and and attention can really your brain up. And I think those people are just mentally deranged. I I mean, Vitality doing what he does and did what he did and same with Johnny is just blows my mind that it's a reality. And I don't think they were like those terrible people before, but it definitely was brought out through streaming. >> You know what I think it is? >> It's like drinking, right? It changes like you people say that drinking is just a personified version of who you really are and what you're thinking, right? I would say it's very similar to streaming. As you get an ego, as you get more famous, as you want to push that envelope, you just continue to get as a worse person. >> You know what I think it is? Is that to continue growing to that degree, you have to keep one uping yourself. And there's just a point where you can't keep oneupping yourself without getting in trouble. It's also that these these content creators feel that it's their only way to get into the space. Like, who's really being that of a person? Because if you are, you're probably getting some pretty insane national news, right? It's hard to get into the space being a good person. You go live and try to be funny or chill out and relax and play Minecraft, you're not going to get anywhere. So, you have to do what's crazy to make it work. So, they just take the most toxic communities in the world, the 4channers, the whatever you want to call them, the swatters, the doxers, and they just go with them trying to make a community, and it never works. Like, they get like 200 viewers, but they get all this hate. So, speaking of being swatted and doxed, what are your experiences with that? I imagine I've always had this theory, well, it's not really, I mean, most people would probably agree with it that I think the relationship between like the diehard viewers and a streamer streamer is way more parasocial than like a viewer of a YouTube channel because they're spending time with you for eight hours a day or whatever. I mean, you can argue and say that some of my viewers have seen me more than they've seen their parents in real life. Statistically, if you've been watching for 8 years, you've watched me constantly, you've seen my face more than probably you've seen your parents' face. What are some of the the craziest experiences that you've had? I'm guessing you've had, you know, probably stalkers or, you know, people that dox you or people that swat you >> like with relationships with fans. >> I've had a lot. I mean, I started with Ice Poseidon where we just got swatted every day on an RV bus. We had M4s put on our head while we got out of a bus multiple times. I've been swatted dozens of times. Swatting has gotten a lot less over the years cuz the technology has gotten better to find the swatters. A lot of swatters have gone to jail, so people are afraid to do it, and they should be because it's way more difficult. A lot of police now know about swatting. Back then, it was not really known, so they're not as stupid. And a lot of times the streamers call the cops and say, "Hey, I'm this streamer. I live at blank. Just want to let you know there might be a dumb call one day about me." And they'll usually will call you first and then I'll hang up and it's fine. So, it's definitely gotten way better. Uh, but when it comes to stalkers, I've had lenty because it goes with having streamer relationships. It goes with being close friends with other content creators and their stalkers start going after you. Uh, I've had stalkers come to when I'm going down the elevator in Austin, Texas, waiting for me at the bottom stairs to talk to me and say that like they're here for XYZ or they're here for me. Um, it's been a lot. >> What do they want? >> Friendship, relationship. They think they're in love with us or that we're in love with them. They're schizophrenic usually, so they truly believe what they're thinking. Um, I've had uh encounters with stalkers that are at hotels for months that are just waiting for us to come outside. I've had we've had encounters where someone moved close to us for months that we didn't know about just so they can talk to us and then they went bankrupt and had to go back to their country because they just were not didn't have a job. They were just waiting for us to hopefully one day reach out to them. It's crazy stuff. And I'm not mine are bad, but there's some streamers that have way worse stalkers than I do. uh primarily girls, way more stalkers than we ever had. >> Sharing about Pokemon, like the length she goes to to make sure that they don't know where she is. Like I heard, maybe she said this, that she had to like remodel her kitchen so that people couldn't reverse image search her backdrop to find where she lives. >> That's the thing. It's very easy nowadays to find your address. Like I don't even try to pretend that people can't find me at all times cuz it's just so obvious. like uh I don't try to hide it. I don't try to fight it. I just know that like yeah, you probably know where I live. I don't really care. Um but I'm also a guy, right? For girls, it's way different. For girls, it's like that's a that could be scary. That could be death. Some of these streamers viewers are insane. You know, they they write to them, they they call them, they'll harass their family for years. I don't really have that. I I don't I'm not interesting enough to do that, too. I don't think people care. I'm curious on the topics of streamers and their fans. >> What about stream snipers? Who is Dr. Pepper Man? I know he's given you Dr. Pepper quite a few times now. >> Yes. It's very very very popular clips. I get recognized for that from kids like dude Dr. Pepper guy. Like what? I'll be honest. I don't know him. I have no idea who he is. He has never contacted me. I have never contacted him. No idea. I I don't know him. >> What does he look like? >> He's just some kid from I think New York or somewhere that >> Why was he in Japan? >> I don't know. I have no idea. I've never said a single word to him. Cuz the thing is that is good content. Don't mess with it. Right? If it's a good thing, don't mess with it. He comes in, he gives me a Dr. Pepper, he opens it, I drink it, it gets a lot of views. Don't mess with it. I don't message him. He knows what he's doing. I know what I'm doing. I don't care what the rest is. Don't you Don't you want to know, you know, like how is he making money? Like how is he because there's no sponsors, no brand deals, no ads, no nothing. He he's like a he's a mystery. >> He is. And I would like to keep it that way. Like it's up to him if he wants to do something with it, but to me it's not my job to to expose that. >> I saw this one clip of some someone who tried to chase him down and then she started having like electrical issues with her stream. Like she was trying to follow him and film him and then like no one had ever done that before. And then the first time someone did it, like literally their their footage started like it looked like it was being disrupted by some EMF thing. >> It's like glitching out of a cut scene. >> Don't do it, right? Like like let's watch the cut scene. The cut scene is he walks away. You don't know where he goes. I saw that clip where she tried to follow him. Why do that? Like you're ruining something good. He comes in. It's funny. It's interesting. >> He's the only good thing we have left, >> right? So if you if you go and what she did was trying to follow him around and like where is he going to go? What car? It's like, come on. Let the guy make his bit, make and and leave and and keep the mysteriousness going. I will never message him and he'll never message me and I don't think he's ever messaged any of us because I don't want to know what he's doing. If he comes in, I say, "What's up?" And I take the Dr. Pepper. Listening to creators who make Only Fans drives me nuts. >> Why? Cuz they don't work at all. >> At all. It's basically like posting an Instagram picture. But here's the thing. I'm sure people could look at you and be like, "Oh, but my job is so hard. I don't make millions a year. I could do that. >> They're and they're probably wrong. But >> but girls, may maybe you're wrong with some of that, too. >> I'm not. I' I've seen them do what they do. They'll Here's what they do. They have someone posting their stuff in Phil in the Philippines at $2 an hour pretending to be them all day. So that way the dudes that are messaging them, they're like, "I want to you." They're just going to some 38-year-old dude in the Philippines. Then they just go to a photo shoot maybe once a month and just do all their videos and pictures in a day, maybe two, and then they go home. They have nothing to do the rest of the month. >> So if you were a hot girl, would you do Only Fans? >> There is no question in the I'd be the biggest [ __ ] imaginable. I would not give of course I would. Actually, I wouldn't be a big [ __ ] at all because that doesn't make the money. It's better to be scandalous. I would be like, you know, flashy show a little bit but not too much. I would totally have an Only Fans. Yes. No question about it. >> Yeah, I was blown away when I saw Sophia Rain on David Dori's blog. >> It was what 8083 million in a year and a half. Now, don't get me wrong, some of these girls work really hard cuz they're constantly making videos, Tik Toks, posting. They are doing a lot of stuff. I know some girls like this girl named Morpai who's a friend of mine. She's working at 12 hours a day on Twitch. Then she goes offline and does videos and Tik Toks and posts. They're also girls that straight up do nothing. I'm curious though also, you you did turn down this the stake deal or the the the online gambling casino deal and lost $36 million, but I'm curious. I'm curious, what is the biggest stake deal that you've heard of? >> I told you it was XQC. It's like $100 million. >> So, it's that officially XQC $100 million over two years. >> Yeah. I mean, there's other streamers, I'm sure, that have made close to that, but XQC's was just the most profound known one. >> How much do you think he's going to walk with at the end of two years? Because he's going to gamble a lot of it. like probably 200 million >> because you got to realize something like yes he had that money but they he got it in Ethereum. Ethereum's only skyrocketed over the past year. >> Wow. >> But what about I thought he's gambling with the money. >> Sure. But he's not gambling $100 million. >> So he's gambling and I'm sure he's maybe let's say he's a little bit lower or break even or maybe he's above. I don't know. But he got it from an Ethereum two years ago. >> So he's not bleeding millions a month when he's gambling. >> No, not at all. Cuz while he's streaming gambling on now, his two-year contract's over. Now if he streams gambling, he's getting paid. So he's using that money to just gamble with Ethereum. >> Do you think that he's the wealthiest streamer? >> Yeah, it's not even a question. >> XQC is the wealthiest more than Aiden Ross. >> Yeah, for sure. I bet XC is worth like $200 million. And I bet you the thing is like I don't know, right? Like Aiden Ross could be there. To me it's like they're both ying and yang. They're both the richest streamers on Twitch or in the industry. Nothing like Speed or Kai. >> I don't think Speed's worth I I'm sure Speed's worth millions and millions of dollars, but I just don't think it's that much because he does short streams. He doesn't really promote anything. He promoted a crypto scheme a while ago and I don't even money on that, but uh that was like 5 years ago. Kai is definitely worth a lot of money, but it's nothing compared to XQC and Adam Ross. They just they're deep into gambling that you can't beat it. >> So, let's talk about you and your finances over time if you're open to talking about it. >> Sure. When did you start making like crazy money at what? >> 2020. >> 2020. And what was revenue looking like? Where was the money coming from? >> Uh it was all sponsors. Uh sponsors and then uh back then a lot of it was advertising on Twitch. You run ads. So I was making a lot from that. 20,000 to 30,000 subscribers a month on Twitch. That's 3.5 time 20, which is what, like 80,000 or something. So I was making a lot on Twitch. Sponsors were very heavy back then because they had nothing to spend money on besides us because COVID was happening. So where did they put all their money towards streamers? I did almost a sponsor like every other day because there they they didn't have anything else to spend it on. There was no Tik Tok stuff. Nothing was happening and everyone was talking about Twitch all day. >> I mean I would sometimes sit there with 40,000 viewers doing nothing because they're just like, "Yep, we're bored. We have nothing to do." >> So what was the most you ever made in a month? Uh the most I ever made in the month is probably like $900 to $800,000. I'm not sure. Yeah. >> How uh sponsors? I mean, I could have made way more. There's I turned down a Saudi Arabia deal, which I regret turning down. That was $500,000 to go and then it was like $400,000 to come back. It was like $900 grand or something. >> Oh, what do you mean come back? >> Like it basically if you took the deal and then you went and then you did the whole thing like you didn't just do a little bit of it. It was like a week or something. I had to go for like some Fortnite thing, then you would get 900k. So, it was like 500k up front. >> And why'd you say no? >> Cuz Hassan [ __ ] that piece of was like blah blah blah, don't do it. And I'm like, damn it. And then I got a hate thread on Twitch. And back then, I was a [ __ ] So, I said, all right, I'm not doing it. And I regret it cuz I wish I did it. >> What was the issue with it back then? >> Saudi Arabia is a bad place cuz women, you know, they can't drive and stuff. And >> they were inviting one of my friends to come with me who was a girl. I was like, damn it, dude. Like, I lost a lot of money. I was A lot of comedians actually just got invited to Saudi Arabia. Tim Dylan is going to Saudi Arabia. There's a massive comedian thing happening. Yeah. Like a big performance over there. >> That's funny. >> Where I think the Saudi government is paying them. >> They just want to like up their >> They have so much money and they want to like entertain with like western entertainers. >> Yeah. They have infinite cash. >> Yeah. I mean they they they're doing the they own the the live golf, right? Like the massive golf thing that's like competing with the PGA. >> Yeah. They just have money. >> Wow. >> I don't know. I don't think they own PG. I They own Live, right? >> Yeah, >> but they're Yeah, they have infinite money. Um I regret that. But I made 900K in one month. That was the most I ever made. Something like that. 800 900K. Uh I could have definitely made more back then, but I also thought back then like the money was going to be infinite forever on Twitch. I always thought like, dude, money's money, whatever, because like I'll have so much money and I'll have it'll be forever. But that changed dramatically over the last few years. Advertisers have left Twitch. People don't subscribe as much. Numbers are down dramatically as Twitch goes on. So I make probably like I used to make like 150 to $200,000 a month on Twitch. I'd say I make like anywhere between like 40 to 70K now or maybe probably even less and I still run I run double the ads I used to. >> So that's your total earnings right now about five 50 bucks or $50,000 a month. Your total earnings right now are about 50 50 bucks a month. >> 50 [ __ ] bucks. Yeah, it's about like 50 to 60k I would say a month. uh I make from just Twitch and then there's sponsors where that's a lot of my that's most of my money nowadays is through sponsors and uh YouTube revenue is just a little bit but nothing crazy. >> Does that skew your perception of money when you go from making so much to having it drop like 80%. >> Oh yeah. No, it's definitely changed me. I back then money just felt like paper. I just like I want something I'm going to get it. But nowadays, I definitely take a second to think, right? Like I was like, hm, I could walk to this podcast or I could take a Lime scooter, but I I'm probably going to walk, right? Cuz you want to save as much money as possible for So I am do think about money now when I just didn't before cuz it was endless. >> What were you doing it with it back then? >> Investing it. It's all I did. >> Good. >> I I invested all my money. I bought boxes for Nintendo boxes. They didn't go up in value. Uh, but they're pretty much stayed the same. I was big in collecting before everyone else was. Like 2019, I loved collecting boxes, Nintendo stuff. So, I have a huge collection of Nintendo, but that's not why my investments. I have been investing in the S&P 500 for years. My big thing is if it drops 1%, I always put money into it. Um, I was big in Nvidia four or five years ago. I uh, yeah, I've I've I've made a lot in my investments. Have you made more in investing than you have from streaming? >> I would say yes if you because the thing is with streaming is I make a lot more for sure but I spend a lot. >> Sure you but my net is definitely way more through stocks. I've quadrupled my stocks in the past few years I'd say. And last year I made like eight 70% I think. I forget something like that. >> Oh all because of Nvidia probably, right? >> A lot of it was Nvidia. I I I was in some Bitcoin ETF or or fund and then um yeah, my portfolio's just been going up a lot. >> Dude, you got to give Jack some tips, >> huh? >> Got Yeah, give me dude. Help him. >> Tell me what stocks to buy. >> Oh, bro. I mean, you listen. I I have a manager and then I have my own. You know who actually tells me a lot of stock stuff is my chat. >> So, do you have a number in mind that you're trying to hit? Uh my numbers like I want to be able to make enough where I feel like the 5% if I just put it in like low investments I would be like living very lavishly. It's like 15 million I would say is that number to like truly be able to say I would be totally okay. Um I don't think I'm going to make that through streaming. I'll probably just make that through my investments. But yeah, I would say like 15 million is what I'm looking for. >> I feel like you would be there already investing as much as you are with Nvidia. >> I'm I'm getting there. It's not there yet. It's probably a few more years away or like a few like two or three years away if the market keeps going well. But who knows, right? It can also be dead tomorrow. Like it could be Trump could just say some stupid. It's a good buying opportunity. >> It is. It is. The hard part, like I said, is funds nowadays. I just bought a Lamborghini if you heard about that. >> Making that sort of money. You said money just felt like paper. What were some of the craziest expenses you spent money on? >> Oh, I bought dumb. I bought this World of Warcraft armor for like 10 grand for no reason. I mean, I just bought this Lamborghini that was, you know, apparently gonna be like 180 grand. I um I didn't really have a lot of dumb expenses that I'm like, I truly am stupid for this. I don't really think so cuz a lot of things just I like my boxes, they they went up in value a little bit. Like I didn't really lose anything on that. I would say my biggest waste of money was my pool. What a waste of money that was. I bought a pool in Texas. An absolute waste of money. I never used it. It never got used. It was expensive. It was cracking. The company that built it didn't even have a license, I found out, at the end of it. Uh, and they don't need one, which is crazy. And now there's this huge thing going on in Texas where a lot of pools that were built in like 2020, 2022 are having this like cancer is what it's called in the cracks of the pool where there's actually a class action lawsuit going out for this one company because it they're mixed up. So therefore, everyone's pools are cracking. How much did you spend on the pool? >> Like 200k. >> $200,000. >> It just depends how big the pool is. That's the high demand. >> Uplifted pool is a thing. And it's ugly. I hate my pool. But that's all pool time. Like materials were hard to come by. Labor was hard to come by. And everyone wanted a pool cuz there were a home. And they would finance the pools, too. Like you could put 0% down and finance the pool for the next like 5 years. >> Yeah. I wasted my money. Did not make my pool my value of my house go up at all. Waste. No one used it. >> What's the most you've ever spent on a dinner? >> I don't know, bro. I I'm a very When it comes to food, I eat simple. Like, I'll eat like chicken every night. >> But I imagine, you know, you go on a date. Like, what's the most you spent on a date? >> I don't spend money on a date. >> What do you do on a date? >> Netflix. >> That's it? Like a first date? >> I mean, if I go on, like, let's say we go out somewhere, uh, how much is maybe 50 bucks. 60. But you can't bring them to rich places and like that. That's when they start getting in their head that like, oh, he's just going to treat me like a a goooo goal like doll. You got to go low. So, I don't give I don't show them anything. >> Okay. So, how are you how do you meet a girl you're going on a date with? >> I usually just go out to bars. I don't ever use >> You pick them up at a bar. >> I I've never had Tinder in my life. I actually had Tinder in college. That's it. >> Hinge? >> Nope. >> So, you're saying you go out to a bar and I imagine once you're at the bar, you're getting recognized and stuff, right? >> Here's what happens. I go to a bar. I try to find someone. I start talking to her. She's somewhat interested. My goal is to use my blue eyes to hopefully hone in like a light that someone recognizes me so I look cooler. And then usually within like a five to 10 minute rad or timeline, someone recognized me and goes, "You're miskiss." Bam. Now there's the conversation. Wait a minute. Are you famous or something? Yeah, it's whatever. And that's how I get laid. >> Do you go out to the bars alone or with friends? >> No, I'll go with friends. But I will leave the group immediately because I don't go to bars for fun. I go to get laid. >> So you have the confidence then to be able to approach a girl just like that? >> Yeah, of course. Okay. So, let's say I'm a girl at a bar. Let's say you're approaching me. What do you say? I'm just like doing my own thing. You know, I'm drinking, whatever. >> You show them your Robin Hood account. >> No, I go like this. >> Oops. >> Oh, you you dropped um >> Let me see that. >> What? What is that? >> See, that's what they do. And they grab it. It's a carrot card. >> You dropped the carrot card? Oh my. You have a carrot card? >> Yeah. That the Robin Hood I have now is really good. >> The gold one. >> Yeah. >> And what do you get on that? 3%. You get 3% on your Robin Hood card. >> Yeah, it's 3% on it's it's a great card. Like actually, it's a legitimately good credit card. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. I'm just using like a Discover it card right now. I'm getting like a percent and a half. >> So, I'll drop the card and usually that starts the conversation cuz like Oh, >> is that actually how you start a conversation? Swear to God, that's >> No, it's not how you start a conversation. I swear. Or or I'll be like drunk and just go up to them and like, okay, like I met a girl the other week in Austin. We went to Sixth Street and I'm like drunk and being an idiot and this girl had this chain that she wrapped around my neck and left it there cuz she's like one of my friends and she's like, "Oh, look, you're my bitch." So, she's walking me around with the chain. I don't care about getting deasculated, obviously. So, I'm walking around with this chain around me and this really hot girl sitting there eating macaroni. So, I just go up to her. I'm like, "Yo, can you please help me get away from these people? They're freaking me out." And I basically started talking to her and like, "Oh, where'd you get the macaroni?" And then blah blah blah. And then just went from there. That's how >> And then did you get recognized when you were talking to her? >> Yes. The guy who made the macaroni recognized me. >> So it was pretty much off to the races at that point. >> Yeah. And that's when you you didn't even have to drop the card. >> But you have dropped a card before. >> Yeah. Dozens of times. >> Dozens of times. What's your success rate >> with girls? Pretty high. I go up to girls. I usually have a pretty high chance of getting with them unless they have a boyfriend, which uh >> the chances decrease a little bit. >> Usually better actually for some reason. How? Cuz girls cheat. >> Do they really? >> How How often How often do they >> Do I think girls cheat? >> Yeah. Give us a Give us a percentage. >> I think isn't statistically girls cheat more than men. >> No, >> I think so. >> I think I think it's pretty even. >> Guys don't have the opportunities that women have. Women have endless opportunity. >> No, I mean it appears as though that's not the case right here. >> That is true. For the most part, I'll [ __ ] anything. >> Anything. Most girls have Yeah. After like six shots, every shot is lower and lower. If it's a 10. Okay, take a shot of nine. Another shot of eight. And I keep going down. >> What if you take nine shots? >> Oh, you. >> Wait, I'm just a one. >> Huh? >> I'm just a one. >> As a girl, you're a one. >> Spencer, go grab some shots, man. Go grab nine shots. >> As a girl, you're a one, but as a guy, you're pretty up there. You're good. >> Thanks, man. I think you're pretty cute, too. >> All right. This is a finance podcast. >> Should I feel like I That's This is I mean, this is really fascinating. I'm not going to lie. What is uh like what is your usual do you have a pickup line or do you just approach them and talk to them? >> It's always situational. There's no pickup lines or cringe. You just go up to them and start talking about something that's going on or like a situation, right? Song's playing, you're talking about it. You you know, you you just have to follow what's going on around you and be present and then that's how you talk to them. I mean, also I'm not like some guru god demon guy. I play World of Warcraft. Like I don't know anything. I just I just troll. I have confidence when I go out so I just troll a lot. >> You're a great talker. That that's the thing. It's like you have so much practice talking on stream where you could talk straight for 20 minutes and come up with content like on the fly. >> I'm curious when when you go out with these girls, let's say that you hit it off, you know, you take her back to your place, whatever. >> How often do they then hit you up later like, "Hey, do you want to hang out tonight?" Or is it most the time just like that's it? >> No, it's usually every time. >> And then what do you say? >> I can't with another girl. No, I'm kidding. I usually my problem that I have is like a lot of times I will uh that's when you should like almost separate but like I'll message them and then like it'll be kind of become a thing and then they're like oh like let's take to the next step and I'm always like no I want to just be alone. >> So you just don't want a girlfriend? >> No absolutely not. >> Eventually whatever. >> Do you think you're going to be single forever? >> Hopefully. I don't know. >> Why do you want to be single forever? Because there's too many opportunities for women that I feel like monogamy is so difficult nowadays. >> What if you had like a polyamorous relationship >> where I could other girls? >> Sure. >> Then hell yeah. Find me a girl that's willing to do that that literally does not care. That's like Yeah, you can go other girls. I don't want her to other guys though. She just got to stay put. So do you think that there's any like excitement though in having like a long-term exclusive relationship where you get to know her super well, she gets to know you? >> Oh yeah. The dude, it it sounds like such a beautiful blessing to find someone to romanticize it, to get married, to then have children, but what about when those kids are like 8 years old and they're and your wife got fat and you look uglier and your eye bags are 6 feet deep and you are sleeping on separate couches now and you're running around the house constantly trying to clean up. That's not fun. >> It's oddly specific. It doesn't have to be that way though, right? You could afford a certainly could, but it could not as well. Well, let's say 10 years out from now, you know, let's say even, you know, 20 years out from now when you're getting older, you know, maybe your knees, you're kind of a little decrepit at that point. What are you going to do if you want to, you know, settle down when you your options have diminished because you're >> Why would my options diminish? >> Cuz you're older and decrepit. >> Look at Leonardo DiCaprio, dude. 24 year olds on the reg. >> So, you're comparing yourself to Leonardo DiCaprio. Anthony Katus, too. >> People compare me to Leonardo DiCaprio all the time. They say you look like a 50y old version of Leonardo DiCaprio. >> They say you look like a 50-y old version. >> Yeah. Not the young one. I look like the 50-y old version. >> They say at a certain point money doesn't really improve your life as much. >> Yeah. >> At what point would you say that that hit for you? >> $2 million >> in net worth or in income? >> In net worth. I think if you have $2 million and you invested properly, I don't think that's going to change your lifestyle. >> So $2 million, why will it not improve your life after that moment? Well, I mean, at that point, you can have a nice car, nice house, you can have a a good amount of money saved for, you know, an a high yield savings account or something where you can either a live off of it, uh, at a, you know, normal life basically, right? Um, and you can kind of chill out. You could probably go on a couple vacations, you can spend your money wisely, but not too crazy, and you can live a pretty decent life. I think after that, it starts becoming like, what does it really matter? Um, like I believe that like being super rich is not what I ever care to do. I don't care to have 10 cars. I don't care to have three yachts and seven houses around the world. That sounds like a lot of work. I I I just would, you know, I would be fine with a few million and to enjoy myself. The reason why I want $15 million myself is not necessarily just for me, though. It's for my family. You know, it's for my my future kids. It's for uh, you know, team water. if it ever comes around again, I'll donate some money again. So, yeah, it's stuff like that. That's why I want the money. Not necessarily just for me. I don't need $50 million. So, when all is said and done, what do you want out of the next 20 or so years out of your life? Like, why are you doing what you're doing? What are your your main things you're going to be focusing on? >> Uh, I literally just care to make people laugh. Like, my job on Twitch and my life since I was a kid is to make people smile. Like, I love making people laugh. That's worth more to me than any amount of money. And that sounds so stupid. Um, but you know, your algorithms are probably going to think that that was an ad read, but it's not. Like, I genuinely love making people laugh. So, that's it. I just want to make people laugh, smile, entertained, it's all I care about. I don't really like the money's great, but if I'm not entertaining, I won't do it. I don't care. What would you say is your biggest insecurity? >> I don't know. Uh, probably if I'm not being entertaining. I literally do it all day every day. My my my personality is this. Just trying to entertain. >> Is there a rumor about you that a lot of people think is true, but it's completely false? >> Yeah. Do you want really want to talk about that? >> Go ahead. Say say a few. List them. Uh, three years ago, I got accused of covering up that basically my whole career up for a long time. That was then figured out by a judge and literally everybody within like 3 days that it was false. But it went so viral that everyone thinks I did it. And there's still people that think I did it. And there's still people think that they talk about it and it ruined my life. I've been traumatized. I've been suicidal from it. I've been depressed. It my brain up. I feel like my brain is cracked from it forever and it ruined my image, my reputation. My friends started stop hanging out with me. People started ditching me. uh streamer friends of mine backstabbed me and made videos or comments about it when they didn't know the truth. Yeah, that's probably the biggest thing. And in fact, it is the biggest thing. >> Judge a judge settled it. >> She tried to sue me and she lost and she's like didn't get anything cuz she tried to sue me for millions of dollars claiming I defamed her. It was so stupid. Um that happened and I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars fighting the case, of course, cuz I have to get lawyers. So yeah, that was the worst thing of my life. I still hear about it to this day. Um I'm sure there'll be someone in your comments saying, "Didn't this guy cover up salt?" Sucks. Sucks. It was bad. I'm still traumatized from it. I go to therapy. I do EMDR. Uh my brain is not the same. It never will be. How it is. >> How is your brain different afterwards? >> Uh I have I feel like my brain cracked when it happened. I almost feel like there's a before me and after that me. Uh the before me was much more innocent and believed in people. Now I'm very jaded and I don't trust anyone. And that's a very sad life to live when you're trying to be funny and entertaining because it's almost like you don't want to entertain because you're just like, I don't like these people or they're going to betray me one day, right? When you're dumb, wild, and free and you believe everyone's your friend, you love to entertain cuz you're just like, everyone's my friend. I want to make them laugh. But when you feel like a lot of those people are just not really there for you and hate you, it changes you forever. So, it changed me forever in bad ways. I don't think there's a single good that came out of it. >> Do you think that eventually you'll be able to overcome it? >> I mean, mentally, no. I think it'll stick with me forever. Um, at least especially as I'm a streamer consistently cuz I deal with the consequences of it every day. But >> what do the consequences look like? >> I mean, I just see comments about it. I viewers have left me over the years from it. Um, I'm depressed a lot more. more and more sad. Viewers see that and they're like, "Mrs. is just not happy anymore." I'm definitely better now. Like, I'm not this like sad that I used to be, but it's definitely something that haunts me every time I go live. The thing that I am so discouraged by are all of those the people that make the YouTube videos exposing certain things without the actual facts and details. Yeah. Because the the the they basically people don't realize that the people that make YouTube videos saying this new scam, this new this, this new that, they make more money if they get more views. And they can get more views by making something seem more evil. >> That's it. Like it's it's there's no other equation than just that equation right there. And so they are incentivized to make things look absolutely awful, to paint someone as a villain cuz they get paid more. And not only that, but people idolize these people because they see them as their god who's exposing good versus evil. They see them as like the moral arbiter of truth and ethics, right? >> When in actuality, they're just someone who's interested in promoting themsel, making a lot of money, and getting a lot of views. They could care less about the truth because realistically, when the truth does come out, they're never going to make a video saying, "You know what? I was wrong and I caused millions of dollars of damage in this person's reputation and and messed up their life. They could care less because they have all they have millions of people every single day commenting, "Thank you so much for talking about this. This is so great." And they have millions of dollars coming in their bank account. It is so twisted. I'm so over it. I I hate to say it kind of resent anyone that makes YouTube videos like that. >> Well, it's also the truth is never as exciting as the perception, right? >> No, everything is more nuanced. Everything is >> It's so interesting to think that like I did it and that like you're finding exposing me and ruining my life. It's not interesting when I come out and say, "Here's a court that proves I didn't do it." Because they're just like, "Oh, what does a judge mean?" Okay, here's like the entire in Reddit community saying, "I didn't do it." People are going to come up, they're going to twist it and say, "Well, that's because you spent hundreds of dollars. Go away." >> Um, I I know in a lawsuit, they could claim whatever they want. They could allege whatever they want. And then you have to fight those claims. And of course, a judge could look at the facts and say, "Okay, well, fine. we side with you and we're going to dismiss the case. But no one ever covers the dismissal. >> Yeah, they didn't. I mean, when it got dismissed, people were just like, "Oh, well, you paid the judge." What? You think I could pay a court or they don't care at that point? It's like now we're 5 months after. And they're like, "Dude, Miz, we don't care." And that's the sad truth is like, "Well, they don't care." And why would they? It's they don't care about me that much. So, a lot of people's perception of me is very wrong. And it sucks because before that I was like a you know I act like an kind of guy but it was like heartwarming. But after that you're like no this guy's just an So from there my perception on the internet has been like this guy's just a bad dude when it's like I'm really not. I'm a normal dude. I am I do care about people. I pay my taxes kind of and um you know I invest in Nvidia but I just literally just try to make jokes be an idiot. The comments I think are the worst because sometimes it'll start from a rumor. Like I've had comments about me where someone just makes up but they are commenting the exact same comment because I see these. They comment the exact same comment on multiple people's videos and they all like them to the top and they make this wild claim and then people underneath them are like, "Holy, I had no idea about this. I had no, wow, this guy's a piece of I had and but everyone latches on to that top comment as though it's fact because it has likes. Yeah. Even though the whole thing is fake. >> It's so twisted. There was this one thing that happened on just a clip that we posted or maybe it was No, it was the episode that we posted with Andrew Callahan. Someone said, "These people seem so self-absorbed. These people don't know what it's like to work a real hard job in their life." And then, you know, one comment was like, "Oh, of course that's because Jack's dad was actually a part of the PayPal mafia with Elon Musk. And so he has a trust fund with like $20 million in it and Jack's just gonna get that or he's already gotten it. So he has all of this family money. He doesn't know what actual hard work is. And then that had hundreds of likes. And then the there was like people like, "Oh, really? I've been watching this podcast for years. I had no idea mentioned this to me." >> And that has like 30 likes. And then the one beneath it is like, "Oh yeah, and on top of that, like this and this and this and this." And like they're saying that with zero evidence. And the only evidence that they have is someone else also has the name Jack Selby and he was a part of the PayPal mafia. and he has a lot of money. I have never met the guy. I find me a picture with me and him. There's no I don't know who the guy. We just have the same name. That's like a thing. People have the same name. Juan Gonzalez. There's probably a million of them. >> Well, the problem too is it's the short form media is such a curse because you just make up. I mean, half the time you're on Twitter or Instagram, you like really look at it and you're like, "This is either AI or fake as story. It's not even real." They just make up stories nowadays. So, they do that for streamers all the time. I'll see streamers having controversies. Kai sent at they'll say it's like dude it's not even real. I was watching the stream. But that's where media's gone is like why I'm gonna just take the source that I see because people just believe it. And that's what happened a lot with me is the Twitch community found out real quick I didn't do it took like a week. A lot of people were like yeah I watched every stream. I was a part of this all. Miz didn't do it. It's so obvious. But the clips that went viral, the videos that went viral, that's where everyone was like, I will never give Misk a chance because this is what he is. >> Yeah. I've tried to rationalize this that it's just a part of being front-facing >> cost of doing business. It >> it really is. And I've I've spoken with other people privately about this and they view it as just like the cost benefit analysis of like if I'm doing this, this is what I get. benefits on the back end. Mine was It was bad. There was 300,000 live people watching me get cancelled. >> It was bad. Like when I say there was like the whole website was about ruining my life. >> It's the biggest drama that's ever happened on Twitch. >> Really? >> Yes. By far. >> See, it's interesting because you're in it and you're so familiar and as as with me >> I heard about it. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, I h I didn't. >> You know, it was big and it sucked because it's like >> what can I do? Go live and say I didn't do it. But I tend to not believe the things that I see online. Well, but the problem with my thing was a lot of people that I was friends with backstabbed me and made videos or talked about it and promoted it and you go back to streaming and you're I was known as like the bridge of Twitch, the guy that knew everyone was friends with everyone and I'm like, I don't want to be the bridge. I hate all of you or I don't want to be friends with you or this is weird now. We're just like you clearly try to ruin my life. I mean uh I tried offing myself because of it. So, it's like, well, when that happens, you you have a shelf that you're a wall that was up. And it really changed my content because it went from Miz can talk to anybody and is friends with anyone, which was true, to Miz doesn't talk to most streamers and he really does not want to. And it definitely made me lose viewers, made me lose confidence, made me lose followers, made me lose everything from years. I mean, it happened this happened three years ago almost to the day and it's still around. It's bad. Don't get me wrong, most of the internet doesn't even care about it anymore because they're like, "Dude, Trump's president. Who cares?" Or like they don't give a uh most people probably don't even know about it anymore cuz the cycle of the internet happens. >> Yeah. >> Or they were like, "What did he do again?" But no, that hurt me real bad. My >> mainly what it hurt is my personal life. I hurt my mental and that just you >> cuz any any drama or or real issue nowadays like >> dude you did something horrible okay >> if you don't care and you just keep going like there's so much news nowadays that happens you it doesn't matter anymore cancel culture is kind of dead but back then it was different because when my I got cancelled um I got kicked out of my org for nine month for for nine weeks uh I lost all my sponsors so they were reporting on that like Miz lost uh Gamefield Miz lost AT&T >> fs the fire where they're like, "Holy, we're doing something. We're ruining M's life. This is awesome." When like um >> I It just kept snowballing to the point where like yeah, it it destroyed me. I went live and I basically had half the followers, half the subs, and had to rebuild. And um that's why I like the car content cuz it's me getting into a new audience that doesn't even know who the I am, which is nice. It's not like it's like I'm trying to hide from my past, but it's just a very unfortunate thing that's hard to explain. Sucks. >> Yeah, >> that does suck that you're still kind of paying for it. Especially when >> I don't get sponsors a lot of times >> because of that. >> It went all around the industry. Everyone's like, "Yeah, he did that." Or like AAA sponsors or place like AT&T. I was like in this big AT&T annihilator cup every year, paid 100 150k every time. It was good content. Nope. They still don't want to work with me because they're like, "You you have a bad rep." It's like, "Yep." So, >> what we're going to do last is a streamer tier list that we've procured. >> Put the laptop on the table and you're going to let us know your honest thoughts about these streamers. Walk us through who you're who you're grading and what you're grading them as. >> Okay. I mean, I am a prolific Twitch streamer viewer. Like, I watch streamers all day. It's all I do. So, like I can actually tell you probably more than almost any other streamer who I think is actually a good streamer and who's not. >> Cool. >> I would say Hassan [ __ ] is the worst streamer of all time. I'm kidding. I think Assan is actually I would put him in the C category. I think Assan is a great with politics. He's excellent. He's on time. He's every single day. This is removing politics obviously. He's always working. He's always doing more. He's progressing. He's very passionate. But one thing Assan sucks at is when he has guests on his stream. He just cannot talk to them a lot of times and he's very awkward. And then something also Assan's not good at IRL streaming. He sucks. He's boring. He doesn't try. He just looks at his phone half the time. So I put Hassan in C. I think Assan is a really good political streamer though. So >> where would you put him in terms of uh attractive level? >> Hassan? >> Yeah. >> He was hotter like three years ago. >> What? >> True. I would probably put Asan at like Assan Hassan is a very objectively attractive guy. >> Sounds like someone went outside and did Huh? after you said he was only three years ago. What? >> Every time you say that just sirens. >> What do you think went wrong? Why do you think he went down in attractiveness? >> Uh cuz he got more stressed and you could just see his gray hairs popping up every two seconds now. Like he's just definitely a stress ball. I can just look at the guy or look at live stream fails. All right. Vitality. I would put Vitality as a F tier streamer and I put him at D. The reason why he's D is the problem with him as a streamer is he's very entertaining but he's not long lasting, right? So why as a streamer you want to make sure that you can last longer than a few months or even a year and things with Vitality is his brand can't last that long because he's just put such ridiculous content out there that if he goes to anything else people aren't going to watch, right? So vitality is doing like pranks or figuring stuff out or trying to find pedophiles, whatever it may be. You can't go and play Runescape or Well, you might be able to, but you can't play most games. That's not how it works. So longevity wise, I put Vitality as a D. And obviously, as nowadays, he's an F, but me myself, I would put myself in high A. I do think I'm definitely one of the better streamers on Twitch. I think I'm one of the most entertaining streamers on Twitch. My big problem that I have a lot of times is I would get uh I get bored very easily and I don't like content. And also I think I've been limited over the years because of that drama that happened to me. And I also think I uh yeah I just get stressed and then I get pissed and I'm not in a good mood. Johnny Somali is an F. Like like this is not even an option. I'll just take Jack Dry and put him lower than that somehow. I think Jack Dry is just the worst person ever when it comes to streaming. He sucks at it. Like Johnny sucks too and he's terrible. But Jack Jack Dry doesn't even look at his stream. He just streams himself. And I'm like, dude, I Soulja Boy can do that. No one else. Lewig. I would put Lewig in A. I think Lewig is a good streamer. H put Lewig in B. I think Lewig is a good streamer, but I think he's a better YouTuber. Right. There's a difference. I think as a streamer I would say that he's not as strong, but I think as a YouTuber Lewig is probably the strongest. Like if you give me who's the best streamer YouTuber, probably Lwig. I think he's definitely figured that game out really well. Um speed is in my opinion one of the greatest streamers of all time. I think speed is really good in any situation. He's charismatic. He's energetic. He's doing stuff that no one did, which is traveling and using that traveling to grow his brand. genius idea from him from taking soccer and utilizing that to grow a completely new audience. Uh, and now that he's a spectacle whenever he goes around the world, he's athletic, he's talented, he's young, is I think Speed is one of the greatest streamers, if not the greatest streamer of all time. >> I don't even know who this guy is. I've just seen him in Twitch clips and YouTube clips and that tells you I don't care. So, >> who is it? >> Uh, the dude with the sailor hat. >> Joshua Blanc. >> Oh, that's World of T-shirts. >> Oh, the dude that bites people. I think he bought one per bit one person. >> That's pretty entertaining. I'll put him in D. >> I think that's pretty good. >> Poke. >> Why not C? Huh? >> Why not C for Josh? >> Uh, >> he's the only one that that's bit someone as far as I'm aware. >> Yeah, >> it's pretty original. >> It's pretty good. But I just think that like he's a one like you just watch him and you're like, "Oh, wow. He's autistic and bites people." It's like having like a Pidgey and all it can do is use a t like one tackle, right? like you needed to have new abilities and Josh literally just has >> So what else do you think if you're talking to Josh right now? What do you think he What do you recommend he does to increase his arsenal? >> Uh I would probably if I were Josh I would get a uh mouth clamp. I don't know. I would be like Jude stop biting everybody. Like but then he's a zero trick pony. >> There you go. He sucks. You know what I'm going to say? Josh is a streamer. He just bites people and runs around and acts autistic. Like >> he acts autistic. He is definitely autistic, but the >> I don't think it's an act. >> It's not. No, Josh is not an act. Josh is a biter. But okay, Pokemon I'd put probably as a low C. I don't think Pokemon is that good of a streamer. Sorry. I uh I don't really watch honestly streams. Like I don't watch Twitch so I don't really know. >> Yeah. I I mean >> she's good at business. >> Sure. But she's just as a streamer she's whatever. I I mean I think she's just jaded and tired from eight years of getting beat the [ __ ] out of on streaming. I think she just Yeah. I like is very reserved in a lot of ways nowadays compared to what she used to be like. And even then she just was like she's much more of like a personality outside of Twitch. She's a star, you know, like she's Pokemon. She's a Instagram, Twitter, Tik Tok. I feel like that's much more her speed when I think streaming is much more just a relaxed time for her and chill. So I just put her at C. myself again. Definitely have a big ego. Uh I put myself yet again above everyone else at this point. Um why can't I there? I'm a double A streamer. Lacy. Lacy. Lacy. I think Lacy's really good. I think Lac is a really good streamer. I think he's very funny. I think he's good with his chat. I think he's entertaining in general. He knows how to farm cliffs and uses community. He's got good ideas. I like his cameraman a lot. I think Lacy goes above me. I think Lacy's a really good streamer right now. He's very He's very witty. Neon as a streamer, I'd probably put him in C. I I don't I don't know his content at all. I can't really judge him. No idea. Agent Agent's a good streamer. Uh I think Agent has really good ideas and a good team. I would put Agent I put I put agent A. I think Agent's actually a really good streamer. Tim the Tatman is one of the goats of streaming. He's always been one of the goats of streaming. He is a high A in my opinion. He is up there. Tim is really good at entertaining and he's got a great community and he's just always doing good. I like Tim. Aiden Ross. Okay. I think Aiden Ross in my opinion was an insanely good streamer and I think nowadays he's very mentally and his brain is fried and I think he's jaded and tired. So I would put Aiden as a A for sure but I think Aiden at one point was S and I think his mental up so he's not there. Kai Sat. I would put Kai in A. H. No, I put him in S. Kai is definitely one of the best streamers. His His production team's insane. I I mean, they go balls to the wall with everything. He clearly produces content. He knows how to engage with his guests. He's a really good streamer and his team just carries him so hard. Uh, as well as him being a really good entertainer. Jason the Wen. Jason's a really good streamer. His community is really strong. Um, I think Jason has a lot of potential to grow in audiences that are new, which I think is more interesting on Twitch, which is more K-pop and Asian style streaming rather than just like the normal mundane stuff. I would probably put Jason high a I'd probably put him like right here. Who's this? >> Togei. >> Togei. Who that? >> You don't know Togei? >> No. Really? >> Skip Togei. Who's Togei? Put him S tier. >> Who that? >> He does these like crazy fun gambling streams, but he's like >> be your favorite. >> Oh, and and steroids and gambling are his thing. >> Say no more. He's top s. >> He is. >> Ninja. Okay. Ninja. Ninja. He still's got the low taper fade meme. Like, I still think Ninja does well. I think he's a great streamer cuz he's very loud and energetic. I would put Ninja probably in the B. I think Ninja is actually a good streamer. Uh, for sure. XQC X is A. I think he's probably like right next to me. I think XQC was insane, but he's definitely more tired now. And that's just how it goes from doing this for nine years. But he's still, in my opinion, one of the greatest streamers. He knows what he's doing. This is just basically robotic to him cuz he's just done it for so long. He knows what to do to farm. Um, but I would put him he was at at one point I put him in a now cuz I think his content he just is more like chill compared to when he was going very hard in streaming. I think he's definitely taken a step back for sure. And Foolsley Foolsley is honestly straight up when he's on he's his streams were great. When he was on and good content it was because you just never know what the he was going to say and you need to watch. I think he's one of the mo the best entertainers honestly of our generation. >> It was so funny. I never watch any live streams ever. I watched some of Fuzzies. >> Yeah. >> Because of how crazy it was and he was like in a hotel like calling the police for something and I was just like sitting there glued to the like the screen. I couldn't believe it. >> Yeah. >> He's genuinely a great entertainer. Like I I think he's nuts, but as an entertainer you the beauty of him is the reason why he's so good is you need to watch what's going to happen next. truly don't know what's going to happen. With a lot of streaming nowadays, you know what's going to happen because it's planned. It's I'm going to play Peak with friends. Like, okay, I don't really need to watch this. Nothing's going to happen. No interesting thing to the point where I need to be here for 4 hours. >> Yeah. >> Who's going to be in jail in 20 minutes? You don't know, right? And that's such an exciting thing. >> Is that just mental instability, though? >> I think it's both mental instability and he's just a good entertainer. I mean, he's been in this for 15 years. He just knows what to do to entertain. So, I would say he's 100% there. Uh I He's a That's good content. I would say that's my list. >> Love it. >> It's good. >> Thank you. Where'd you put uh Stable Ronaldo? >> Ron I think Ron as a streamer is an S. I think he's an S right now. I think Ron's in his prime. I think he's funny, good, he's entertaining as he knows he's very witty. He knows what to say. Uh I'd put Ron in S tier if you put Ron there. I thought that was Ron the steroid guy, but >> they kind of look similar. >> Yeah, I bet Ron and Esther for sure. >> Cool. >> Msk, thank you so much for coming on the ice coffee hour. Really means a lot. I mean, you gave us a lot of your time, so >> is this normally how long these things go? >> This is a little on the longer end. Yeah, we're usually about 2 hours. >> We're at 3 hours and change. >> Yeah. >> So, thank you guys very much for watching. If you made it to the end, really appreciate it. Seriously, we would not be here if not for you. Thank you to White Glove Estates. >> Also, they really hook it up for this. You have no idea how nice it is to have like a place that we could film in Los Angeles. They have more. >> This is all them. This is all them. We'll link them down below so you guys can click on their link in the description if you're interested. If you're interested, >> home remodeling, staging, things like this, they do it. Word. All right. Thank you guys so much for watching. Till next time. Till next time. >> Bye.