“They’re Liars!” Greg Doucette Calls Out Fitness Scams, Bodybuilding Grifters, & Secret PED’s

Almost every single person that you think is on steroids [Music] is who is the biggest fraud that you exposed? I mean, who's the bigger fraud? Is it Michael Hearn or is it The Rock? Is it the guy that plays Thor? How do we decide who's the biggest fraud? Does anyone think The Rock is natural? And why would he be in his 50s? But when you think, why wouldn't somebody take a product to help them get better if it's going to make them feel better, look the better? I took them up until the competition. You could have died. Were you scared? I was very scared. Most people that are training are not doing it for their health. Almost all are doing it to be more attractive. Why do you think we have an obesity problem? We have the invention of the telephone which has caused us to be more sedentary. There's way more highly palatable foods available everywhere. It's a recipe for disaster. I think that the average person doesn't want it bad enough. If I jumped into anyone's body watching this right now, in a year from now, I would look amazing compared to what you do right now and I'd look like a piece of because you would jump into my body and waste it. What would you say is your biggest insecurity? Coach Greg, thank you so much for coming on the ice coffee hour. Really appreciate it. Yeah, I'm happy to be here. Thank you. So, I'm curious. You call out a lot of influencers who are not natty, who are taking steroids. How common is it that this happens? I think it's way more common than people even think. It's extremely prevalent. And the reason for that is because it's still not socially acceptable. And people who take steroids, they don't want people to misjudge them or to think that they're somehow bad. So rather than just being honest, they just hide because people are going to be critical if they admit the truth. Yeah. What percentage of people would you say are on steroids when you see them on Instagram? They're lifting and they look just massive. I would say almost every single person that you think is on steroids is. So probably threearters of the people that you would say, "Yeah, he's probably on steroids." There most likely are. Who is the biggest fake nat you exposed that shocked everybody? That shocked people. I would say probably that guy that just came back after a 2-year hiatus of doing David. David Dolor. I made a video on that. It got like maybe a half a million views. I'm like, "This guy's not natural because he doesn't he doesn't look like me." And it's like, "No, he could achieve that body natural." I'm like, "Yes, but he didn't." So typically it's not the guys that are most jacked, it's the guys with average physiques and like that guy's average physique was not achieved natural because most people who take steroids don't actually look like they do. So what do you think is Yeah. I'm so curious because David Dober to me seems like that would be totally achievable if you do nothing but eat really good, weightlift every day, have a trainer, have a nutritionist. Like why couldn't you achieve that physique? You absolutely could if you had elite level genetics. And see that's the problem. I'll show a photo of me when I'm like 21 and they'll and I'll say, you know, I was natural. I did 42 shows natural. And they'll say, well, your physique is better than him. And you say, you're natural, so why didn't he do it? I'm like, cuz his genetics aren't as good. You take the most elite genetics in the world and you train 100% natural compared to a guy on every steroid that you can think of who has horrible genetics, the the elite natural looks way better every single time. How confident are you that he's on something? Like a scale of 1 to 10? 10 being like, I'm 100% 80%. What would you suggest he's on? Maybe some SARMs, HRT, peptides. There's so many things that for example, if you have millions of dollars in access to money and if you're not like against using performance-enhancing drugs, then why shouldn't you? Like, why wouldn't he use something like it's not illegal, so why wouldn't he do it? There's nothing illegal about taking a peptide. So if he was taking for example um hyperpomorin or smoralin or IGF-1 IGF-2 MGF there's so many different peptides that could help him build more muscle then why wouldn't he take it and a lot of fake natties they'll they'll say I can prove it they'll take their testosterone test they'll post their testosterone levels I'm like yeah great you're not on testosterone you didn't prove anything else there's so many other things you could take growth hormone is another example sarmms like uh oststerine you probably heard of that maybe RAD 140 or LGD some of these things so there's so many other things that can give give you an advantage. Same thing as guys like The Rock. Does anyone think The Rock is natural? And why should he be? Why would he be in his 50s? Now, I would argue that he's probably on a lot of products, not just HRT. But when you think, why wouldn't somebody take a product to help them get better? If it's going to make them feel better, look the better, be healthier, why wouldn't they do it? How do you know David had bad genetics? What if he just had good genetics, but he his entire life just never worked out and he was eating too much? If you have great genetics, even if you don't try, you're going to look somewhat okay, somewhat respectable, and you're going to respond very quickly. What would you say are the safest peeds to use and the most dangerous peeds? I would say the safest would be testosterone with the uh prescription from a doctor, which is a performance. It's because it's testosterone, and you could argue it's biioidentical, whatever. It's like testosterone, testosterone. I'm on HRT prescribed by my doctor. I get my blood work done multiple times a year. I feel very healthy. But if I push that dose higher than the doctor recommends, that's when it becomes dangerous. But at the dose that's recommended, I think it's very healthy. That to me would be probably one of the safest. But of course, if you just use it on your own, not very safe. Um the safest oral probably anavar in terms of side effects, but anything at a high dose is not going to be very safe. Um other performance and antagris a performance-enhancing drug. It's not banned by Wada, which is the world anti-doping agency, but I think it has a performance sensing effect. And should it be called a drug? Well, it's debatable. Caffeine is a drug without with without question. It was banned by water. So, in the Olympics years ago, you couldn't use caffeine above a certain level. You fail a drug test. It was considered cheating. But like we have ice coffee tower. If you drank five cups of coffee, is that performance dancing? I would say absolutely. So, is that healthy? A society allows us to think that some drugs are okay and some are not. What about um you might have heard the Wolverine stack, BPC157 or TB500. These are peptides that promote healing. You heal probably twice as fast as not using them. So if you're an MMA fighter and you and you hurt your elbow, your wrist, whatever, and you can heal faster, that's going to allow you to get back to training and you can have more of a performance-enhancing benefit. Then we have for example peptides that increase your IGF-1 levels so you can build more muscle have a muscle look a little bit fuller recover faster and so those are fairly safe but depending on the country they're they speak against it. So if you had two twins one is natural one took peptides or steroids over 3 years what sort of difference would you see between the two assuming they're working out and eating the exact same? Oh my goodness. So it could be 30 lb of muscle in 3 years. The difference HRT alone typically and I've coached hundreds of people to do this usually around 8 to 10 lbs of muscle in a year from HRT. That's at doctor prescribed levels. Not like crazy doses, not 500 or 1,000 milligs, just a typical dose. If I stop my HRT, I think I would lose 10 pounds of muscle in a year. If I went completely cold turkey, no more no more steroids, which is testosterone. If I stopped and I'm my dose is 140 milligrams a week, I would probably lose 10 pounds in a year. And if if you started, you probably well, you're a little bit it's kind of a percentage. I What's your body weight like 140 15 pounds? 130. So probably not going to be 8 to 10, but I bet you gain 67 in a year at a low dose prescribed by a doctor. So significant peptides would be less. What if your testosterone is already high and you just bump it up even more? Does that make a difference? Still be able to build more muscle, but of course it would be have to be at a higher li. So if let's say you're pushing 1,000 NOGS per deciliter, which would be significantly like high, like way above average, and you take steroids at low doses and it's only enough to keep you at 1,000, it's not going to make as big a difference as you bump it up to 1500, but it will still make a difference because the normal person's testosterone levels go through highs and lows. So, for example, if you don't sleep for a day or two because you're stressed out, you're working, your testosterone levels go down, you're not going to build as much muscle versus somebody like me, my testosterone levels are always high because I'm on um exogenous testosterone prescribed by my doctor. When did you first get introduced to steroids? I was in my early 30s and I had already competed 42 times naturally. I was I started competing in the 140s and by the end of it I was competing in the 170s. And I wanted to be an IFBB pro. And so after after a few years, I was very very much declining in my gains. I would say I averaged probably three pounds of muscle a year for a very long time. Then the last year or so, I was like, I I don't think I put on any muscle, maybe one pound. And at that point, I won the Canadian drug tested national championships. There was no pro cards for that. And I said, I want to be an IPB pro. So I started taking steroids. 3 years later, I was I was a pro. probably put 25 pounds of muscle difference I would say between the two looks. A lot of I do a lot of before and after transformation. I'll show them on my wall. It's like this is when I was natural at my best. This is me enhanced. There's hardly any difference. I'm like oh my goodness there's so much on stage. It's night and day difference. Like if you put on even 15 pounds of muscle, you would look like you're on stairs for sure. In the untested category, any bodybuilder would you say they're all doing per performance-enhancing? untested. I would say probably 90% are using steroids. Now, I was a guy that was competing in non-ested bodybuilding shows and I was winning, but I had amazing genetics. And I don't say to brag. I basically saying, "Hey, I'm taking the power away from me." I was lucky that my genetics allowed me to look a certain way that even at 155 lbs, I looked better than a lot of the guys who weighed 200 lb. It's interest Ronnie Coleman said the exact same thing that he credits a lot of his ability to pure genetics that he is like the best of the best of the best. Yes. combine steroids with that and you could be the top in the world and he competed for a long time without I believe him and I would say me at my best with steroids at my best would get destroyed by him 100% natural I fully believe that there's another example like Chris Bumstead without steroids now unfortunately he started at 18 which is sad to see cuz he's such a young guy and unfortunately he's such a great guy but he's a negative influence to the people of the world who saw him at 18 take steroids cuz who doesn't want to be Chris Bumstead or like Sam Sulick So these guys started so young, but a seabbum, Chris Bum said, with no steroids would still look ridiculous. And so imagine he had never taken steroids and been famous and been a natural guy. Almost everyone would look at him and say, "You're on steroids." I would do a nattier knot on him and I would say, "Let's see. Show me him at 15, 16, 17, 18." And if he had that normal progression, I'd say this guy's natural. But if you all of a sudden see that one year where they put on 20, 30 lbs, it's like, "Okay, now I got you." What's the worst horror story from steroids you've seen? Personally, I dated this girl uh 15 years ago. She was a bikini competitor and she got into competing, was doing great, decided to use Anavar, 50 milligrams a day. 50 milligs. What exactly does Anavar do? It builds muscle. It's every steroid is an anabolic steroid. Steroids are anabolic androgenic steroids. Anavar is less androgenic, which means it causes verilization, turns you more into man, deeper voice, and all that stuff. She's 50 milligs. She put on 20 something pounds of muscle. She went from bikini into like the bodybuilding division. So, she was huge, like put on so much muscle and no real negative side effects. The voice was normal. There was none of the facial hair. None of the downstairs growth, let's call it. So, hm, I'm immune. And so, after that, you get that dopamine rush of, hey, I got second place at this show. I got first place at this show. Then you want to keep going. And so, from that point, now I'm going to push all in. Then comes the testosterone, the deca, the Dball at higher doses. And all of a sudden, I'm like, "What? I only dated this person for 6 weeks. What h what's wrong with your voice? What's going on with your face?" Like facial hair growth, the acne bursting through the skin, getting on a bar, squatting, and seeing blood from the acne busting. Gross. Like, this is just disgusting. And I'm like, "You need to stop." This person just kept pushing it like that. Would not stop passing out in the gym. People were blaming me throughout Canada because they thought I was the one that was giving it to her because I had date her for a few. Look at Greggy coach. I'm like, I had nothing to do with this. I tried to make her stop. But of course, there's always someone in your corner whispering in your ear, "Take more. Take her. You're going to be the best. You'll be Miss Olympia. Just keep going." And so, they don't listen. And so, this kind of stories happen all the time. It happens everywhere. I do videos on these people all the time that happen at the Miss Olympia show. Um, I mean, that's that's horrendous. But there's worse stories. There's people who die. And what happened to her? Well, she ended up getting into Only Fans at one point. I haven't heard from this person in years. She ended up using I believe it was math and just being like I mean just just a mess. Like do you think do you think that her lack of like logic and reasoning skills was a product of this peed abuse? Or do you think that it was something that she probably had for a long time that led to the peed abuse that got maybe exacerbated by that and then went to the meth and everything? When you take steroids as a man or as a woman, it changes your mind. like you really become a different person. I've talked to many women like this. Men, men already have higher levels of testosterone, 10 or 12 times higher than women. And so when she took testosterone, and it was testosterone and other drugs, she probably had more testosterone than me, a lot more. She's fighting people at the bar, fist fights, and it's like, whoa. And then you start winning and you want to win more and you just can't think rationally. You become more aggressive. You become like hyper masculine and it changes a person. You're no longer feminine. Like a lot of people think men and women, we're all the same. let's all be equals. We're not equals. We're different people. Men and women are not the same, and nor should they be the same. But in society today, we try to treat people like, "No, let's all treat everyone the same. We shouldn't be treated the same." So, a woman with male hormones becomes more of a man. And this creates a downward spiral. And I do think that that's one of the causes of what what led what led her to do all these things. What are some of the biggest mistakes people make if they do decide to take steroids? The first mistake I think they do is taking too much. I'm sure many of you remember that. We did an episode with Jordan Peterson this past year. And on top of that just being a massive personal milestone for me, it meant seriously so much. It was also just one of my favorite episodes we've ever recorded here on the Ice Coffee Hour. But it gets even better than that because I am so incredibly excited to announce that we are partnered with Peterson Academy to sponsor today's video. Peterson Academy is Jordan Peterson's online university and it's open for enrollment right now. 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All you have to do to get started is go to petersonacademy.com/ic with the link down below in the description. Again, it's petacademy.com/ic. Seriously guys, if you enjoyed the contents of our podcast with Jordan Peterson or you just like what he has to say online, I strongly recommend you join Peterson Academy because the quality is just unmatched. Thank you so much Peterson Academy for sponsoring this podcast. Many people think that they should take for example uh 500 millig of test and trend because that's what such person took. Well, I'm going to take this. the babyest of smallest of doses would make a significant difference, but people want all the gains right now. And so they see the best transformations in the world. The guys put on say 20 30 pounds of muscle in like 3 months. And so when they take steroids and they only put on 10 pounds, they're like, "Well, what's wrong with me?" And they take much too high of a dose. Second thing is they take too many different steroids. Rather than just saying, "I'm just going to only take testosterone or I'll only take anavar." They take several things at the same time, very high doses. And they do these steroids for way too long. And what do the average person think? They think, "Well, I'll just do it." And I watched Chris Bumpstead win. I would have hurt him. He's a millionaire. I watched Sam Sulick at 5 million followers and he just won his pro card. Does he go on or off? We don't know. So, who's actually outspoken? Who talks about this? I did. I talked about everything that happened to me. And what happens? You're a bad person, Greg, because you took steroids and you tell this and you promote it to people. I'm like, I do the opposite. I think I've done more to be anti-steroid than almost anyone, but yet people will criticize me for being open. Well, I just don't talk about it. Well, if they talked about it and expressed the negative things that happen, I think that would be way better. What would happen if you took someone that didn't go to the gym, they don't diet, and they started taking steroids. They've done these studies, and so this is actually confused people because they gave them 600 milligrams of testosterone, and they said, "Don't train and take it. What'll happen?" And the thing is, they all gained a lot of weight, 10, 15 lbs. And so they said, "Oh, see steroids build muscle without working out." But the problem is it gains weight. Doesn't mean it's muscle. Water weight, for example, you use a DEXA scan and you're up 10 pounds, but you're bloated. Like when I took steroids, my face was like a moon face, like I was puffy. I had the ripped six-pack single-digit body fat, perhaps the same leanness as now, but I looked fatter in the face. And so when people take steroids and they don't work out, they gain a lot of weight, but it's mostly water weight. And the problem is, as soon as you stop, you lose that weight. And so if you do take steroids and don't train, you're not really getting anything from it whatsoever aside from, you know, some of the problems that come. You're of course some positive side effects could be like your your improved sex drive or ability to concentrate, work harder that goes up. But as far as just building muscle, you need a stimulus for muscle growth to occur. Are steroids always bad? Is there anyone who should be taking them? Steroids are not always bad. For example, I need to take them now. Is it my own fault? Yes. I abused steroids for probably about 10 11 years and then I stopped and the doctor said you know your testosterone levels are in the toilet. I had 47 nanogs per deciliter in one test another test 49 normal males like say 250 to a,000 or so. So I was more like a female and because of that my sex drive was horrible. Hard to get uh hard to get erections hard to sleep well. Hard to concentrate. You feel like garbage. You feel aches and pains. You're more moody. You just don't feel good. You don't feel right. you don't feel like you should. And so anyone that takes steroids for extended period of time and then stops, you're going to go through this period where you feel like Superman when you're on them, but when you go off of them, it's the opposite effect. I compare it to you get drunk and you feel really good and it's amazing, then the next morning you wake up and you're hung over with a headache. As good as you feel on the steroids, the opposite is going to happen when you get off. So if those are all of the negative consequences of having low testosterone, what are some natural ways someone could increase their testosterone? natural ways to increase testosterone. There's not the not the greatest amount of of things you can do. You're going to need to get enough sleep. So, most people would have normal levels of testosterone if they didn't do stupid things. So, partying, uh doing drugs, drinking, um staying up all night, being extremely stressed out, going on crash diets. So, not having a healthy diet, like not eating enough vitamins, minerals, or just starving yourself, not eating. A lot of people that have low levels of testosterone, they're bodybuilders. they they they diet down to say 5% body fat or they suffer from anorexia that caused their testosterone levels to go down. So if you don't do all those things, you're likely going to feel and feel pretty healthy. It's rare that a body a person actually needs testosterone replacement. Maybe say 1 or 2% of the population. What percentage of the top level bodybuilders would you say have eating disorders or some sort of body image issue? Um well even I did this research back in my university days and it was like 25% of athletes involved in weight classes have eating disorders whether it's bulimia anorexia and so on that's in a weight class so count wrestling uh fighting any kind of boxing 25% of those in bodybuilding you're being judged on your appearance and so it's much higher than that and so I'm going to go and say roughly 50% of the people that I would have coached or I know of have disordered beating eating behavior whether you want to call that an eating disorder or not, it's extremely prevalent. It's horrible. Um, it's like when I hear a person very excited to be a bodybuilder, I'm always thinking now that I'm older, I'm like, "Okay, this is great. I love the sport, but I am concerned because I know that once you get into it and you see yourself shredded, like you say you're a normal guy, you're like 20% body fat. You're not bad. You might almost have abs. Then you diet down and you're shredded and you got the oil on and you and you diet it and you're just amazing. And then everyone's like, "Wow, look at your abs. You look amazing." Then you go off of that and you gain back the weight. It might only go to 15%. You were 20 here. You get down to five. You go back to 15. You always remember five. You always remember all the compliments you got. You don't remember. Well, I used to be 20 or 15. You compare yourself to your best. And so that's one of the biggest problems with using steroids or competing is that you will remember you on that day on stage and then you're triggered and that's when the eating disorders come from remembering how you used to look. You look in the mirror and you're like, I don't like how I look anymore. I remember how I was. And then it's a constant battle of starving yourself, doing cardio. I mean, I just as early as yesterday, a guy wrote me. He's like, I'm doing 100 minutes of cardio bike on the bike a day and I'm eating 2,000 calories a day and I'm not lean enough. I'm like, show me a picture. He's like 5'8 and weighs 135 lbs. And it's like, well, you look healthy. Like, but you do you really need to do all this? And that happens to, I would say, 50% of people. How do you draw the line between dedication and disorder? I think that it's when it negatively affects your life. And so, I've been accused of having an eating disorder for years. I watched my YouTube videos. People made YouTube videos about it. You eat from your cookbook. You're eating all these vegetables and fruits and high volume meals. And look at you biking. And I'm like, I love all this. It's fun for me. I enjoy it. I look forward to every time I bike. I was riding the bike an hour this morning. I rode the bike an hour yesterday. I can't wait. It makes me happy. I enjoy it. I like the foods that I eat. But if I felt negative, if I couldn't take my shirt off at any time in the day, if I couldn't take a photo and I had to say, "Can you take 10 photos of me and I'll delete the nine that don't look good and I'll post that one." I could take my shirt off right now, stick my stomach out and stand in front and wave at the camera and say, "Hey, it's me." I'm happy. But if I couldn't do that, if I couldn't go to the pool unless I skipped lunch, you know, people like they dye it down to go to Mexico. I'm like, "I'm just showing up." You're like, "What do you mean?" I'm like, "You think I'm going to do all this so I can look good at the beach in Mexico? I already look good. I look better than 99% of people, so I don't have that. But most people don't like their bodies, no matter how good they are. Like Sebum. Do you think he likes his body right now? He thinks he's a skinny [ __ ] Like he literally does. He's lost 20 pounds of muscle. He's like, "Man, I look like this in Prague. I look like this at the Olympia. Now it's like I can't train on my shoulder." He's got a shoulder injury. It's like he doesn't like it. He wants that body. And so no matter how good you are, it's never enough. So, I've seen these Tik Toks of these street interviewers going up to different girls in the party scene and they show them four different images of different body fat percentages and one is like super lean and then it gets to maybe like, you know, 15%, then 20% and like 25%. They ask these girls, "Which one do you think is the most attractive?" And none of them ever say the completely shredded one, like the super muscular like probably gym goer seven days a week. Do you think that after a certain point of having a bodybuilding physique, you're really getting more of your attention from men? The first thing is never ask a woman her opinion because she doesn't know what she's talking about. That's the first this is true. So they they said they showed Seabbum's picture in the offseason. He was 10 or 11%. What do you think of this dadbot? They said he had a dadbot. I was on Myron's show with the with those girls. I don't know what it's called. And they said, "Yeah, we like dad bots. We don't like bodybuilders. And then I turned to the woman. I said, "So, what do you think of me?" She's like, "Yeah, you have a good dad, bod." I'm like, "I'm a professional bodybuilder. What are you talking about?" And so, that's the problem. We need that to go viral. She's But you know what? Sometimes you hear women where they say, "How much does a man need to make?" And they're like, "Oh, 500,000." I've seen so many a million dollars a year they have to make minimum to date them. A woman wants a hundred grand as a minimum. That's the average salary, right? I refuse to believe that it's a perception thing. I don't They do not. Women have no clue what they want. They want a dad bod, but the dad bod's Jason Mimoa. I They do. I've seen this. It's not BS. Women have no clue what they want. They also want a man who's going to treat them like a princess and do this and do that. I'm like, "No, you don't. This is They don't want them what they want. Have no clue." And so, what do these women want? I'll tell you what they want. They want between 10 and 12% body fat. Ideal. 5%. It's getting kind of extreme. They don't really want that. Now, some do. Girls who are in the fitness industry, like bikini models, competitors, girls who like really are into working out, they like that because that's your circle. Like my circle is like my friends, half of them are on steroids, half them are jacked. The girls the same way. And so they're used to this. But the average woman doesn't need a guy who's like 5% body fat. Like I'm at 8%. So they don't need this. But 10 to 12, one in a 100 men are at 10% body fat. So the ideal is one 10 to 12. So the top 95% of men, that's what they want. Now, do they want 5%, the one in a,000? No. That's a bit extreme. Chris Bumstead on show day shredded. They don't need that. They just want Chris Bumstead as a dad bod in his off seasonason. Like the way he looks right now, you know, 245 lbs, 6'1, jacked. That's what they want. So, if you were to go walking on a cruise with your shirt off or something like that, how many compliments would you say you get on your physique in 1 hour? And how many from guys and how many from girls? I would say 90% of compliments are from men. And I'm being generous. It's probably 95% men. And it depends. Like most people that compliment me now, they already know me from from YouTube and stuff. But if I'm going back to when I was younger, it's almost all men. And maybe not so much at the beach, but at the bar, it would be continuous all night. Wow, look at the physique. Every time I go to his washroom, men. How many girls? I've only been like grabbed in the ass by like maybe three girls in my life at a bar. Hardly ever approached. And so if you're thinking you're developing a body to get girls, it's not. You're going to get lots of dudes though. But if so, if you're optimizing to get girls, what would be the ideal physique from your perspective? Your size, but leaner. Like not jack like I'm I'm about 190. If I was 160, like lean like this be very good. Like there's no way you need this much muscle. um a a greatl looking natural physique like the pinnacle top form natural who's trained for 10 years. That's probably what girls are looking for. Very lean aesthetic. They don't care about the massive size. But definitely if like I'm not going to I'm not going to [ __ ] the guys. Girls will like you more at 10% 12% than they will at 20 for most people. And so if you're trying to looks max getting a six-pack but not having veins, not being crazy, and not having steroid size, that's important. I've always said this before, but Brad Pitt from Fight Club has always been my ideal like aspiration body type was that. And I would say that women don't work towards that. I mean, he was in the 140s. How tall is Brad Pit? 510. And he was in the 140s, give or take. Not really. But lean though, but definitely lean, but like you don't need to be that lean, but certainly 10 to 12 is a great look for most men. Um, it's it's it's that beach body. You definitely have a six-pack, but you're not like so crazy that your chest is dried and it's like it's like ridiculous. It was interesting after Brad Pitt, I think it was either Justin Bieber, his body, or David Beckham was like the next one up from I thought it was like Cristiano Ronaldo. Yes, he's highly sought after that physique. Absolutely. And you know what's funny? Of course, you can get that physique natural, but most can't. Most can't most people can't get a David Beckham or or Cristiano Aldo Ronaldo physique while being natural. The but with steroids and a very good diet or perhaps some ompic and GLP1 and you starve yourself with steroids that's probably you're going to look like like that level of physique. And so the problem is most people think if I take steroids enough of them I'll probably look something like this or maybe like Sam Sulic roughly somewhere around there. But the problem is 90% will be way underdeveloped from what they expect. And so, you know, I used to sell steroids. I know what guys were taking. And so, they were just not nearly as satisfied. And I would say 50% of them, if they took their shirts off and you looked at them, you couldn't tell they worked out. And you're thinking, well, why would they use steroids? Because they wanted you to think they worked out. They wanted to be able to one day go on the beach with their shirts off and have their wife, their girlfriend look at them and be like, oh, you're kind of cute. You're kind of hot. But why do everything else other than just work out and diet? It just seems like that would be the easiest thing to do. And if you're optimizing for women, which I bet a lot of guys, they say they they do it for themselves. Say 90% are lying. They're doing it to get girls. Same as the girls. But but if what happens if they get their wife and they just like, why don't they just throw their physique out the window then? Well, to start with, like girls say they don't put makeup on for other people, it's for themselves. This is 100% [ __ ] How many people get home from work and then put on makeup to sit and watch TV for themselves? Nobody does that. And so men that are just not do it for me, they're doing it so they can feel good about the compliments they're getting from men and for women. And so most people that are training are not doing it for their health. Steroids are not good for your health. Anyone that takes a steroid, any bodybuilder, I don't care if it's sebum, if it was myself, any person that takes steroids other than prescribed from a doctor is doing something unhealthy. I would say it's equal to being morbidly obese. So when I was taking steroids, it's the same thing like smoking cigarettes or or being 300 lb of fat. It's not healthy. So if you're going to the gym for yourself, who goes to the gym to be less healthy, to live less long. And so if you're taking steroids, automatically not healthy. So when people go to the gym and and take steroids and try to look a certain way, I think almost all are doing it to be more attractive. Attraction is more important than health. How often are you wrong about your call outs where you've said someone's not natty, but it turned out you were wrong? I've done three videos in my lifetime and probably done a hundred posts of natty or not where I said, "Oh, I was actually wrong." So, I'd say almost always I'm right, but I definitely have made errors. Do you ever feel bad about calling someone not natty when when they are? That's why I make the videos. Like I had Lex Little I did that on. There was another powerlifter. I'm like, do I feel bad? Yes, of course. What about do do you have any remorse or feel bad calling people out who might not want to be called out or maybe they're just like a [ __ ] like they don't want to attract any attention to themselves or something like that? That's a good question and I I can empathize with why they don't want to do it. So, for example, sometimes I'll say, "Well, why do you think they're not admitting it?" Like, The Rock doesn't say he's on steroids, but we all know he is. And like, why doesn't he do that? Well, I don't know if he would have the same acting career. And I think that they justified in themselves that if he were to say he's on steroids, same as like Michael Hearn, if they come out and admit that they're on steroids, I think that they've justified it in the in themselves that well, this would be worse cuz then if everyone in the world knows The Rock's on steroids, maybe he thinks other people would use steroids. But I I think it would do the opposite. I think if people said, "Wow, the Rock's on steroids, this guy's on steroids, Chris Hemsworth or any of these guys like famous guys came out and said there were steroids." people's bar would be lower because if I'm a 20-year-old like and I'm growing up and I'm watching Hulk Hogan and all these guys on steroids and I'm thinking, "Yeah, I want to look like that." They would never use steroids. But if they if we knew that all these celebrities, actors, and so on, we're on steroids. People would say, "Oh, that physique isn't a normal physique to achieve natural." So, I think that we need a paradigm shift in thinking where people actually come out and admit it. The Rock says, "You know what, guys? I actually been taking test. I've been taking tran. I've been taking peptides and I have body dysmorphia. I can't handle not looking good. I need this. And then people who, you know, worship the rock will be like, "Wow, I didn't know that. I didn't know men felt this way that they felt the need to have that much muscle." Cuz imagine the pressures. It's completely changed in the last 30 years. Before it was just mostly women. When I was a kid growing up, I didn't feel pressure. I had to look a certain way. But look at social media now. It's like there's the same amount of pressure on a male to look good as a woman. Almost worse. Women, they need breasted plaids and whatnot, but they don't have to put on muscle. men, they need the drug to look the way that women want them to look. Do you think that virtually all A-list actors that get shredded for a certain job take some sort of performance-enhancing drug? Like what about like Tom Holland, for example? If you know who Tom Holland is, he got jacked for Spider-Man. You think he's on something? Tom Holland, I would have to like honestly I know he is, but I I I don't I didn't see a crazy transformation that he made. Like I don't remember it. I'd have to see it. But I would say I would say it's 5050 that for example he would have and I would say 5050 that almost any Hollywood actor that has any kind of importance on looking at all aesthetic at all even slightly remotely that would be benefited by that would be tempted to take something for sure. I would say at least 50%. What about Logan Paul? Logan Paul I would say he's not natural pretty confidently. I would bet I would confidently bet that he's not. Yes. Who is the biggest fraud that you exposed? I mean who's the bigger fraud? Is it Michael Hearn or is it The Rock? Is it the guy that plays Thor? Is it a famous? And how do we decide who's the biggest fraud? Is it Dan Lyn Bailey? Is it a female? Is it a male? Like I don't know how we quantify who is a bigger fraud. Somebody that lies about it every day or somebody who has the most followers. Like I would say I would say lies about it every single day through their teeth. Oh, the Michael Hearn is the most notoriously famous person that is exceptionally obviously lying that's on steroids. I think that he's justified in his head that he can't just admit it. I almost think that he's like convinced himself because there's no way he's natural. I would bet my life against $1 that he's not natural. There's no way he's natural. But I think that he's in his 50s and it's like what's the point? It's a joke. It's like part of me now. I think maybe he's justified and say well if I come out and say that I'm a fake natty for all these years that well maybe kids will think that they should use steroids so I'm going to lie for their benefit. Like I think people justify like no one wants to lie when you ask somebody a question straight up to their face. Like when I talk to people faced on like I'm talking to you, let's say you're on stairs. Are you on an iron steroids? They'll kind of like um well what makes you think my friend? They don't want to say no. Like if you say Greg, are you in ST? Yes, I'm on 140 milligrams. I can look at you in the eye and say it. But when people are lying, they tend to not want to lie. So I can tell often times by body language when I meet somebody in person, I'm like, you've been saying you've been natural or not? And I look at them in the eyes and I just ask them and nine out of 10 times you can tell. It's like we were talking about the Shin Shindim show and the opening act and he had people in the audience and one of the parts of the act was he he said you're going to draw a picture and I'm going to predict which three people drew those pictures. I was from behind and I looked and I said her. First picture, her and her. And I got it right. Three in a row. Did I not? And it was like you can tell by how people act. People don't want to lie. And so people that are lying about being natural, you can kind of tell in the way they answer the questions. And so sometimes I'll just look at how they respond or how they'll answer a question in a video. I'll be like, "That's a lie. I can tell." If you could have confirmation on one influencer, whether they're taking something or they're not, who would it be? Now, before we go into that, the average time to hire from most organizations is 30 to 45 days. Are you tired of a costly and lengthy hiring process? 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If you could have confirmation on one influencer, whether they're taking something or they're not, who would it be? Confirmation. I mean, the ones that I need confirmation, I don't need it. Like, I would want Michael Hearn to come out and say that he's not natural. in the fitness industry. He's the most famous one, the most enjoyable to say, "Here's proof." But I don't need proof. I would bet my life against all of ours in this room. We're all going to die if he's not. I know he would fail. And my and the rock 100% I know for certain. I would swear on the Bible. I would bet all our I would bet my families I there's no way this guy's natural. And so do I. But I would love to have the proof. Then I could say here because then people would know. And I think The Rock would make the biggest difference in Hollywood because he has what, 500 million followers. I think that would be a huge difference. And Michael Hearn in the fitness industry, I think that would make the biggest difference. What do you think is one of the biggest scams in the fitness industry that people are just unaware of? Uh that it's not calories in, calories out to lose weight. I think that the people that are like trainers are trying to trick people into this different ways to lose weight. Like if I eat 2,000 calories of licorice a day, I'm going to get ripped for sure because it's not enough calories for me. And so I think that's a huge scam that it's not that that if you eat carnivore or keto or don't eat carbs after midnight that there's just something going to happen that if all you eat is butter that s pro no you need a calorie deficit to lose weight. To me that's the biggest myth. Which influencer if they're natty or not came out would have the biggest downfall and natty or not that they came out. I wonder I debated if it was actually Michael Hearn and I don't think it would hurt him that much. I think it would actually bring more popularity. I think that all the people that have come out, for example, Alex Eubank was a huge natural influencer, over a million followers, and he ended up going on HRT. Now, previously, I've accused him of being a fake natty, of which I still think it. I still consider myself friends with him. I talked to him. I help him as much as I can. And so, even though he's a fake, like I don't dislike people or fake natties. Like, I'm thinking, if I was in the same circumstance, would I not do the same thing? And it's like, you can't judge what somebody does unless you were given that exact same situation that you'd be in. um when he went out and he said look I'm on HRT 200 milligrams prescribed by my doctor he had a spike in views because people are now talking about him and so I don't know if it would hurt anyone like let's say somebody really natural like Will Tennyson maybe maybe Will Tennyson or like no I don't even know it would he's so well I think that anyone that would come out and admit that they're taking something now I'm just to be clear I'm not using Will Tennyson being a fake N but like in case people are like clipping it and thinking so anyone that say, "You know what? I decide to do this." I think everyone would respect that. I think people respect honesty so much at this point because hardly anyone is honest. I think that if they were to come out and be honest, I think everyone would be a net positive. Every single person, I think, would be overall better. When did you start getting into fitness? And at what point did you start taking it to the next level? I mean, at 10, I was lifting weights with my dad and my twin brother in the basement and following a three-day split, doing sets of six reps for each muscle group and taking it serious, like really serious. He did that for 6 months. My dad hurt his arm doing curls and then I wasn't allowed to train. So, but my parents were school teachers so I I got home from school earlier. So, I lifted weights in the basement in secret. And I mean at 13 I was benching like 230 lbs. I weighed about 120 something. So, I was like a little guy with a lot of strength. I was competing at 18 like last year in high school. I took it serious at 10. Like I was into it like hardcore serious at 10. I was into everything. Anything I could see personal improvement in myself, I just absolutely love. Whether it was like I was doing triathons at 13. I was swimming, biking, running, competing, any sport where I could measure myself against myself. I didn't need to beat anyone else. I just loved improving. And so bodybuilding was just like a personal journey to see I want to get more muscle. I want to get stronger. And I loved it. Every bit of it. Do you think you were raised that way or do you think you were just born like that? I think it's born like that. I think more so born than raised. I mean, my family, my my twin doesn't really compete that much. Although a little bit, but he was never into it like I was, but he was more into studying. Like my twin, like my twin is like really a genius. He's like super smart. My whole family is really smart, but like he's like at a next level. But I think you just want to be good at stuff. And when you see yourself good at something, you want to keep pursuing that. Like I think if I was really good at piano, I probably would have done more piano, but I wasn't that good. I wanted to be good at something. And I was really good at lifting weights, bodybuilding, and strength sports. So I did more of those. But I mean I was a phys teacher for 11 years. I loved all sports. I loved competing but I didn't care if I won or lost. Like really I could play badminton or basketball. I'd lose. I was like I would always win the most sportsmanlike award. You think I'd be like athlete of the year or something. I mostly won like the sportsmanlike cuz I was just a guy that liked to have fun. I just really a chill guy. Just having a good time. How does your twin compare to you physically? He's about 5' 3 and 1/2 and 138 lbs. He's actually competing at the World Championships in Taekwondo in like a couple months. So he's like cutting down to like whatever the weight class 130 something pounds. Um he runs he's quite athletic in terms of running. He beat me in certain sports. He was better than me at hockey but every other sport I was pretty much better than him. But um you know he was very very athletic but like more so like when we were I'll tell you the story. When I was like 2 or 3 years old my parents bought us both sippy cups. There's a cup with a lid because when you're a kid you're going to make a mess. Mine said strong on it. His his said smart. He had a thing with the glasses. And so even back when I was three, I remember associating myself with being this strong kid and he was a smart kid and trust me, he got the highest average. He's like super smart. I would go in the backyard and lift rocks and say, "Can you lift this rock to my twin?" And I could lift the rock and throw it and I was just so excited about this. Or deadlift a paint can. My parents are like, "You could barely walk and you're deadlifting the gallon of paint." They're like, "You're just into it." And so I think you're born with it. Like I cuz I don't think they raised me to be like, "You should lift weights or you should bike race." They just I naturally want to do these things. So, what's holding people back, the average person from getting in shape? I think that the average person doesn't want it bad enough. And I think that a guy like David Gogggins acts like you can just want it, like you can just do it. I actually think it's very much intrinsic or very much internal. Like I do think there's a a very much a biological adaptation or some like almost like I'm born with an obsession that makes me want to do it. And I don't think you can just teach that. And I don't think I can just convince you to want it as much as me. I posted the other day on my Instagram. I said, "If I jumped into anyone's body watching this right now, in a year from now, I would look amazing compared to what you do right now, and I'd look like a piece of [ __ ] because you would jump into my body and you'd be like, "Oh, this is great." And you'd start eating chips. You wouldn't ride your bike every day. You wouldn't watch what you're eating. You wouldn't care about your health. Now, not everyone, but like the vast majority of people would come into my body and waste it, and then they would lose all the gains that I've made. I would jump in their body and be like, "Wow, I'm 300 lb now. This sucks. I'm in a calorie deficit. I'm going to ride my bike." One or two hours a day. A year from now, that person's in shape. What's an exercise you see people doing all the time, but it's actually pretty useless. Uh, useless. Front lateral raises. That would be pretty useless because most people have overdeveloped anterior delts, front delts, especially guys that are bench pressing and stuff. um on YouTube that's been promoted lately, it's those in bend over rows with 10 lb dumbbells where they're doing this thing. That's pretty useless. It's not heavy enough. That's a very common one. But I think that most people doing any exercise, there is benefit. If you're pushing to failure or going close to failure on any exercise, even if it's done incorrectly, it's probably going to build some muscle. Why do you think we have an obesity problem? There's been a picture circulating Twitter, which is really interesting. They show a picture in the 1970s of people on a beach and everyone is just like in shape and then you see now and it's rare to see someone who's at like a healthy body weight. Well, there's a few different reasons. The main ones is because we have the invention of the telephone which has caused us to be more sedentary. We have computers, TV, and so on. And so we just sit at our phones and so rather than moving a lot, we don't move. So that's we exercise less. So there's less movement. The next is there's way more highly palatable foods, as in there's high sugar, highfat foods available everywhere, fast food, restaurants, and so on. And you combine those two things and it's a recipe for disaster. Like really, if people were to just not have a phone and move more, go for walks more, and eat healthier foods, less fast food, 100% the weight loss would happen. So if someone is overweight, how much of that is purely out of their control? Well, I would say it's probably 50/50. It's 50% environmental or like your genetics or whatever. like it's half and half. It's can you do something about it? Yes. Can you do all about it? No. And so if I said to anyone like let's say you were sitting here and talking to me and you and you're 100 pounds overweight, I would say look I wish you could lose 100 pounds. I want to help you. If I had a client, they hire me and I do this all the time. I don't think 100 pounds is realistic for you. And it's hard sometimes to tell them like they hire me all the time. Like here's my dream physique. I want to like look like this. Probably not going to happen. I'm like can we get halfway there? So let's lose 50 lbs instead of 100. If you're 50 lbs overweight, try to lose 25 and keep it there because losing all of it, I don't think it's realistic unless you're aided by my by drugs like a GLP1 like ompic or something prescribed by your doctor. The fight the urge of being hungry. Like I don't think people understand people are skinny. They don't know what it's like to be obese. I do. Even though I've never been obese. And why do I? Because when I do a bodybuilding show, I have absolutely no energy. I feel like [ __ ] I'm miserable. I have barely the energy to get out of the bathtub to use the washroom. I can barely shoulder check. I've been in car accidents cuz I'm too tired to shoulder check driving cuz the diet is so aggressive to get to four or 5% body fat. And so in my mind, I imagine anyone who's severely obese to to to diet down to even a healthy weight, let's call it 15%. They probably feel like me when I'm at 5%. And that's a miserable life. You have brain fog. You have no energy. You're always starving. Imagine fighting that urge, that hunger urge. Like people don't know what it is to be hungry. Like to be truly hungry, like starving, like 5% body fat, you're starving all the time. And so I don't think it's fair to say to somebody who's 300 lb, just lose 100 lb. All it's just willpower. Maybe to get to 250. I think that's normal. Like don't go all in and just eat everything you want. But to go to be lean, the extremes, like you're 300 now, you're 210. To get from 210 to 200, the effort required, I don't think it's fair. And so I would never say to them like, you know, you have to do better. But I also don't think you should just give up and just be 300 pounds. There's a difference between eating anything and everything you want and being like the perfect spec specimen of fitness. Like I don't pe I don't expect people to be like me. Oh, you got to ride your bike one or two hours a day and eat only lettuce or something. It's just silly. But somewhere in the middle, I think that's realistic. Is being a little bit hungry bad or is it is it totally fine to just like maybe it's 8:00 p.m. you're like ah it's a little bit late to be eating. I'm a little I'm pretty hungry right now, but it's fine. I'll just go to bed. Like at at what point do you know if it's like, you know, okay versus bad? Well, for example, I'm a little bit hungry right now. I didn't eat that much. I want to eat. Now, if when this is over, I'll definitely eat. Now, if I were 100 lbs overweight, I would say, "Okay, how hungry am I? Is it is it all I'm thinking of?" And if it was only on my mind a little bit, I'd say, "Okay, I can go through it." But the average person that's lean, they don't really ever get hungry and care about it. It's easy for them. their genetics are so made to be lean. Like basically everyone has a certain amount of like ghrein that's released or fat cells. The more fat cells you have, the more ghreins released, the harder it is to be lean. And so I think that there's going to be some normal amount of hunger, but it shouldn't be an ever evasive thought. It shouldn't be an intruding thought all the time. If you're always every hour thinking about eating all the time, it's not healthy. Now, there's things you can do. You can eat the a different diet. for example, higher fiber foods, more voluous like fruits and vegetables, more satiating foods like proteins. It's just people don't know what they eat. Like I don't want to like I don't really care about if you people buy my book, but I do have a circle diet book and my cookbook and it's like if you haven't tried it, it's a game changer. Like it's just so much easier to lose weight when the foods have half the calories. I was at the gym this morning doing my cardio and a guy had an example. He said, "I I I hardly eat and I can't lose weight." and it was like 3,000 calories and it was like very calorie dense foods like nuts and all stuff like very dense. The other person's like eating so much food it was like double the volume but had half the calories. It's like no wonder you're losing like no wonder you can't lose weight. You're eating too many calorie dense foods like French fries, chips and stuff but if you eat more fruits and vegetables really is easy to lose weight to an extent. After a while when your drop body fat drops too low then it gets hard for me. It's really tracking. Like I say this all the time with finance that when people say I can't save money. I always say well track how much you're making and then track how much you're spending. And every single time there's a little tiny things they don't think about that they just spend money on. It could be you know going and getting a coffee, going and buying that little $20 thing, but they do that throughout the week a few times and that adds up. For me, I found myself not losing any weight whatsoever. And I thought I was eating really healthy. And I started tracking what I was eating and like inputting the calories on uh my fitness tracker, whatever it was. And it was sauces for me and it was coffee creamers. And I was putting in way too much coffee creamer and way too many sauces and foods that I just didn't even think about. Like spicy mayonnaise when eating sushi. Just like little things. But yeah, throughout the week it would add up. And that was my little surplus there that prevented me from losing any weight. I think the average person I think it's like 32% of people under uh report calories by five or 600. Yeah. So most people are saying I'm eating 1500 calories a day. And I'm like, "No, you're not. If you're eating that, you'd be ripped. You'd be peeled. There's no way you are." But they don't actually track. And I think with knowledge comes power. And I think most people don't know and are not aware of the calories that they're in and the foods that they're eating. So if somebody want to lose weight, my my first thing is always read labels for everything. Look at everything. I'm not saying don't eat the cake, don't eat the the sauce, but look at it and know what's you're putting in your mouth. If you look and say, "Wow, there's 20 calories per tablespoon, and I actually put in 80 calories of ketchup. Maybe I'll have sugar-free ketchup next time, which has 10 calories, and that saved you 40. Maybe instead of 300 calories of of uh, you know, Caesar dressing, I'll only put half. Or maybe I'll buy light Caesar dressing. Instead of that 1,000 calorie cheesecake, I'll eat the 500 calorie other kind of cake. instead of hogen or Ben & Jerry's, I'll have this fruit. Like, it just is small changes. Like, if you still want to eat it, go ahead. It's no different than like you're saying with finance is like, am I going to go and buy a dress without looking at the price for my girlfriend or something? I'm like, okay, this dress is $3,000. This one's a,000. I like them about the same. I'm buying the $1,000 dress. It just makes sense. Same applies to food. So, what's the best diet for the average person? The average person best diet is eating a lot of fruit and vegetables and having a lot of meat that's lean, lean cuts of meat and a lot of yogurt or Greek yogurt or dairy that's low in fat. So a high protein, high fiber, voluous diet, that's the best for most people. Now, does that mean that you can't lose weight on a keto diet or carnivore? No. But for most people, they'll be more full by eating these foods. And so that's the best diet to follow. What about the best supplements? Creatine is probably the one that's been proven to build the most muscle like maybe one or two pounds. The most unproven, but that's I would bet my life on it. It's Turkeestone from Ajuga Turkeistanica. It's the most popular supplement I sell by far by a long shot. The problem is the research isn't established at this point and the research that has been done essentially has been done on fake augata from a plant from China, a copycat plant. And so it's a plant that doesn't have the same profile as the plant that the sajuga tricanica and uh this gives you a lot of energy, helps you build muscle. Um but anyway, aside from a juga for building muscle, I would say something that gives you a pump like nitrates uh or lcitrine that you have in a pre- pump product. I also think caffeine is highly uh anabolic because it allows you to train harder. It gives you the motivation. Like if I wake up in the morning and I'm going to do cardio and I take my caffeine, I might do an hour. If I don't, maybe I only do 30 minutes. If I'm going to the gym, instead of doing maybe 10 sets, I only do five or I only push half ass. So, I think caffeine, even though it's not technically building muscle, the caffeine itself, if it motivates you to go to the gym, I think it's going to build a lot of muscle. Um, on top of that, I would say beta alanine is a strong uh supporter of building muscle for people that train like higher rep sets, like maybe super sets, drop sets, and so on. But unfortunately, there's not a ton of actual supplements that make a huge difference. Like the we're talking about these are things that are going to make 10 to 20% difference from not using them. And what are your thoughts on like artificial sweeteners, Diet Coke, things like this? I'm a huge fan of artificial sweeteners. And some people are going to argue and say no. If you drink a Diet Pop, it's about 150 calories. Sorry, a regular pop. 150 calories for like a, you know, standard size versus five calories. And so you're automatically consuming less calories. Now, some people say, "Well, that's going to trigger you to be more more hungry." Yeah, but even if you added 150 calories, you're still at break even point. Studies have also shown that people who consume like uh non-calorie sweetened beverages or non what like zero calorie like whether it's pop or Kool-Aid or whatever with zero calories, those people are more satiated and even after the the diet's over, they keep more of the weight off in comparison to the people who drink water. So if you were saying if I took a group of 100 people and said you 50 you can just drink water you 50 can drink water and you can drink diet pop and Kool-Aid this people will be more satisfied and lose more weight and keep more of it off. So I'm a fan a huge fan of it. What do you think are some of the biggest fitness myths out there like doing fewer reps but heavier weights or doing you know a lot of reps working out abs you know targeting certain fat loss in specific areas like what are the biggest misconceptions out there? I see some people posting about burning off stubborn belly fat as you're saying like this not a thing. You can't really spot reduce. You can't just tone your arms by training your arms. It's not going to burn fat off else off in one spot. Um I I'm kind of drawing a blank on like what is a fitness? Like almost everything can be a myth that's put out there. Um I guess let's take a beginners. beginners don't need to train very hard to make gains that you shouldn't just I see a lot of people it's like the new program a 90-day fitness challenge day one they're in the gym and they're training twice a day and I'm like why you just get in there and show up and you're going to do great um and I think that to the opposite extent the more advanced trainers I think that some people think that you shouldn't go to failure they're trying to oh if you train too hard it's it's not good or people who are natural think that you shouldn't be training hard that you have to hold back because you're not natural and that if you're on steroids. That's the ones that train hard. Everyone should be training hard. Um, but yeah, I guess being a beginner, just show up, warm up, enjoy. That's probably the thing. And, uh, another myth, taking a lot of steroids isn't going to build you the physique that you want, but you think it will. So, most people who take steroids look like bigger people who are overweight. They don't look like ripped guys with six-packs. That's just not a thing. Like taking steroids doesn't really make you look like you're a lean aesthetic body. Obviously puts on a lot of muscle, but a lot of muscle still with that added fat. If you were to design a perfect no excuses hypertrophy plan for a beginner, how would you do it? I would ask them what they like to do and I would try to design it as close to what they like as possible because the perfect plan is not the one that scientifically is said to work the best. It's the one that they're most likely to do and enjoy because enjoyment is the number one factor. If you enjoy a program, you're going to keep doing it. If you don't like it, you're not. Anyone can do a 30-day or 90day transformation. Anyone can run for that long. Anyone can follow a diet for 30 or 90 days, but you have to love your training program and your diet to keep doing it for life. Like, I wouldn't ride a bike if I didn't love it. I used to do it when I was a kid and I do it again now. If I didn't like the meals in my cookbook, I wouldn't eat them. I would want just eating normal pizza. But because I like what I'm eating, I can keep doing it. So really, people need to focus on the enjoyment factor. And all these studies that are out there, like no matter what study it is, it's based on, say there's a thousand people, it's the average that they're proving. They prove this works. Well, it doesn't mean it worked for everyone. It's the average person is benefiting from. So you don't know. You might be a person that benefits more from doing higher reps. You might benefit from lower reps. The average might need five to 15 reps. You might need 20. It's you're we're not averages. Every person is unique. What about meal timing and fasting? Does it matter if you eat before a workout, after? Essentially, it doesn't matter at all. There's almost no there's almost no relevance to it whatsoever. Now, I do think that eating three to five meals a day is better than eating two or one. Every meal past one, it's going to like one meal a day, okay, it's good, fine. If you eat a calorie maintenance, you can lose or if you eat less calories, you can lose weight. If you eat more calories, you can you can gain two meals is going to be better. Three is going to be better. Four maybe a little bit better. Not sure. Five may be a tiny bit better. 6 7 8 9 10 not going to matter. And uh so long as you spread your meals out and you have protein in all of them, it's not going to matter. So in other words, you don't need to eat during your workout or right after your workout or 30 minutes after your workout or 30 minutes before your workout. More important is you eat when you want, when it feels good for you. Because for some people, they don't want to go to the gym with food in their stomach. For other people, they can't go to the gym with food in their stomach. Two opposites. Like if I get up in the morning and try to lift really heavy first thing in the morning, I hate it. I need to eat. Other people, they like to they like to train fasted. How often do you cheat on your diet? What What would you call cheating? I would say 0% of the time because I don't have a thought that if I eat a cookie, that's cheating. So if I eat ice cream, did I cheat? If I eat a cookie, did I cheat? I don't have a diet. I eat. And I think that when I design plans for people, I don't call it cheating. I have offmeal plans. So, for example, if somebody typically I'll say they're going to eat three meals a day plus one or two snacks. Every meal a day, every meal once a day, I said you don't have to eat what it says. You can eat anything you want within a certain amount of calories. If you eat more calories than it says, then you eat less snacks. So, I don't think of it as cheating. Like, I don't think that anyone on any diet shouldn't eat ice cream. Everyone should be able to eat pizza. There's nothing off limits. I don't do diets where you can't eat a certain food. I don't care if you're dieting for the Mr. Olympia. If I was coaching, and trust me, I've coached competitors. I've coached guys getting pro cards and so on. You want to eat something you can. It's about it's how much of it you eat. Okay, you want to eat cookies. You're not eating 40. So, how often do I cheat? I don't ever cheat because I don't I don't consider anything that I eat as a cheat, if that makes sense. How do you eat healthy while you're traveling? I like to often times go to a store and buy like groceries and preferably there's a a fridge. Now, at the hotel I'm staying at, there's no like special fridge, but almost every single time there would be one, I would go in there and I would get Greek yogurt, I would get chicken, I would get all the things I'm going to eat. I travel with protein bars, and I usually eat like one meal a day at a restaurant, but um I typically just buy what's available. And I find if you try, you can do it. Okay, so there's this thing. So, me and my housemates, we always joke because you could go in theory to Little Caesars and you could get a pepperoni pizza from there. And I think it's maybe like 2100 calories for the entire pizza. And it's like 110 g of protein. If you were to do that and then have a super super dense protein shake or maybe you had some non-fat yogurt or just egg whites or something like that to to get the rest of your protein goal and you're still under 2500 calories by the end of the day. Is that fine or is that It's fine, but if you do it long term, it's not going to result in the same physique as eating, for example, vegetables, fruits, because you're going to need the nutrients. So, for example, if you're getting inflammation from foods that aren't as healthy, you're not going to build as much muscle. So, we're comparing the perfect healthy diet to a shitty diet, but both get enough protein, they're not going to equally get the same results because one could have more cortisol, one doesn't let you sleep as well, one has more inflammation. And so even though they're both at the proper calories and you're still going to gain weight or lose weight, one body is healthier than the other. Is it better or worse to obey your diet perfectly for 10 days and then on the 11th day you eat 5,000 calories, the opposite of what you're what the other one the other option eat a little bit more a day. So it's it's not bad to just have a cheat day where you eat whatever you want. I think it's horrible to say, "I'm gonna diet strictly for six days and then one day is my cheat day," which is what most people have. Like, I'll watch The Rock, it's like, "Here's my cheat day." And it's like, "There's that much French dose." Or they're like, "Once a week I go crazy." I'm like, "This is stupid. You diet strictly, 1500 calories a day, then you have this one 5,000 calories." Why not take whatever you ate on that 5,000 calorie day and let's take 500 calories extra and let's spread it out over the week. You shouldn't feel the need to cheat. I don't diet and think I can't wait till Friday where I get to do X every day. I should get to do X. It should be balanced. If you're if you're feeling like it's not enough, you're not eating enough, then there's something wrong. And when you're a coach and if you have a dieting athlete and they're eating, let's say it's 1,500 calories a day, they're dieting for a show and then the coach is like, I need a cheat meal on Saturday to reset or whatever, that just means a cheat the coach [ __ ] up. That's it. The coach messed up and so they're adjusting that by giving more calories. So, let's say you're eating 1500 calories a day. Then Saturday, you need to cheat 3,000. Why? Because you're so lean. You deserved it. You earned it. No. The coach is just not going to say, "You know what? You should have been eating 1,900 all week and the cheat day should be still 900." The coach says, "No, it's 3,000 cheat deal cuz you're just so good." No, if you're that good, the coach should allow you to eat more all the time. So, cheat cheat meals are the coach is making up for screwing up earlier in the week. Is there a limit to how many calories you could absorb in a day? Like, no. If if but so if I eat 20,000 calories in a day, I'm going to gain if I burn 2,000 naturally, I'm going to gain a few pounds of fat from that one meal. You would probably have maybe let's say 10% of those calories that would just be excreted because it can't be digested at that point. But like 20,000 calories, I mean, we're getting an example of something that I don't think you physically could do. Like I've tried to eat that kind of volume of food. I don't think you could do that. Like there's a very difficult challenge in the YouTube world. It's a 10. Eat 10,000, burn 10,000. Very rare can somebody do it. Now, I don't think that eating 10,000 is necessarily hard. Burning 10,000 if you're fit, it's not that hard. I could do it, of course. But doing it at the same time is hard. But 20,000, no one could do this. And so, if you eat 20,000, you're not going to just [ __ ] out 10,000 calories and not gain it, but you will not absorb. I thought there might be a life hack there. Like, you could only absorb 10,000 calories a day. That's why I thought you could just have one meal where you just like eat whatever you want and it's like well, you know, I'm not it's not calorie for calorie. Trust me, I binged in the past. I didn't know what I was doing my whole life. And I would have some days where I'd eat 10,000. I remember the first bodybuilding show I tracked all my calories. I remember writing 2,000 2200. It was in that range. I'm dieting for my first show and then I went to like a all you can eat pizza and it was 7,000 calories and then it took me a week to get back to where it was. It's like one meal. Now I screwed up in a whole week I'm going to have to diet to get back to that. There's no one meal, I'll just like not absorb it. Now, if you develop an eating disorder and you become bulimic, then yeah, you eat 5,000 calories and it's in the toilet, then it doesn't count. Or perhaps you're using laxatives or there's some tricks that people are doing that we don't really want to talk about. Okay, so this is What about diarrhea? Let's say you eat 10,000 calories and you just got explosive [ __ ] afterwards. Do you still absorb all the calories? No, definitely not. And I mean, if you have certain diseases like let's say Crohn's disease, a lot of those calories are coming through or I've suffered from different problems where I'm like really sick and you just can't absorb and you're eating foods and it's going through you. You don't absorb all the calories. So like people I it's calories in calories out. But if I eat a thousand calories and it's nuts and corn and it's not been digested quickly enough and it just goes through me, then the calories out, it's like, well, some of those calories are going out in the toilet. Let's say you eat 1,000 calories and 200 or 300 are excreted that way. Well, there's 300 there and then maybe I burn off 500 calories on a bike. It all adds up in certain ways. So, yeah, I mean, there's some foods that are not digested the same. Like, even though a food has, let's say, a,000 calories, doesn't mean your body can necessarily get all thousand from them. If it's if it's coated in something or there's certain chemicals you're taking at the same time, that would be crazy. Just imagine this. A spray that you spray on the food like, you know, the the outside of corn, right? You can't really digest. Imagine a spray you spray on a steak. You eat the steak, but the steak is coated in something that doesn't break down your body and then but but then but you could eat whatever you want to and then it passes through. Well, you probably like does it come out form. Okay, we got to stop talking. Watch. She doesn't like these conversations. You know, there's breads that have like ridiculous amounts of fiber that are not digestible and so they have very low like they're keto stuff. Well, it's it could be a 200 Yeah, I guess like a 200 calorie bread. It's got like 32 gram of fiber or 30 grams of fiber and so those fibers aren't digestible depending on what type of fiber it is. So, a lot of times you are able to eat these more bulkier foods with less calories because it's literally going through your body can't digest it. What would you say are the biggest fast food or just restaurant homecooked meal diet hacks? Now, you might have noticed that the IRS is the largest collection agency in the world and with April 15 fast approaching, they're more aggressive than ever. In 2025, enforcement is ramped up. And if you have unfiled tax returns or owe any back taxes, waiting is not an option. In fact, when it comes to this, the longer you wait, the worse it gets. 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Don't let the IRS control your future. Just call 1 8009581000 or visit tnusa.com/ic with the link down below in the description. Like I said, April 15th is right around the corner, so act now before the IRS acts first. I got a question for you. When's the last time you needed to go to the doctor, but you pushed it off because you thought, "I'm too busy. It'll heal on its own, or I don't even know which doctor to go to." I'm sure we've all been there. Booking a doctor's appointment can just feel so daunting. But it doesn't have to, thanks to our sponsor, Zockdoc, because they make it so incredibly easy to find and book a doctor who's right for you. For those unaware, Zdoc is a free app and website where you could search and compare highquality in-et network doctors, and then click to instantly book an appointment. You could filter for doctors who take your insurance, are located nearby, are a good fit for any medical needs you might have, and are highly rated by verified patients. And once you find the right doctor, you could see their actual appointment openings, choose a time slot that works best with you, and then click to instantly book a visit. And appointments made through Zdoc typically happen very fast, usually just within 24 to 72 hours of booking. And you can even score sameday appointments. So stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to zdoc.com/ic today to find and instantly book a toprated doctor. That is zoocdoc.com/istic.z.com/ic. zockdoc.com/ic. What would you say are the biggest fast food or just restaurant homecooked meal diet hacks? I mean, I think that you should make your own protein ice cream at home. It's been my savior. I used to have the the videos with the ice cream over the head. You you use uh some protein powder and some ice and some fruit and you blend it up, add some guar gum or zantham gum to make it really thick and you're literally eating ice cream. Now, you might have heard like a ninja creamy that the these are just for me, these are life-changing diets for me. I cannot believe how satisfying it is and how good it is cuz my biggest weakness as a cheat is ice cream. As a kid, I would eat two two liters. I I've done this a long time. I was just have crazy epic cheats with two two liter ice creams. I love ice cream. And the fact that I could eat every single night on a diet a massive like 1 and 1/2 liter ice cream thing with like the spatula and just go to town and be so full and be like that was 400 calories. I mean, how how can you not lose weight versus eating a 2,000 calorie 2 liter ice cream? I'm eating 400 calories and maybe it's I it's not as good. It's 80%. But to me, that's enough. And now I have the Ninja Creamy. I have those every single night. To me, that's a huge hack. The second biggest hack that I've had for myself had to be the anabolic French toast because people are like, "You can't eat bread on a diet." And I'm like, "For 20 years, I've been eating this French toast where you don't have the egg yolk and you have the the the the white and like some cinnamon and sugar twin and maybe put blueberries on it and it's just so good, but it has half the calories of a regular French toast. So, you eat till you're full for half the calories." And so, how do you not lose weight? You're full on less calories. Simple. The Ninja Creamy is something I've heard so many people. so much. Do you recommend that? Uh 100%. Literally every single night I have a Ninja Creamy now. Now before I used to have the big blender and I would make it myself. Every night I just put in there blend and it's delicious. Like it usually has 300 calories, 50 grams of protein and it literally tastes like ice cream and it's about two cups worth versus I'll say about 1,000 calories for for like a hogen or Ninja Creamy. So I'm saving 700 calories a night and I'm having 50 grams of protein with that. And so imagine 700 calories times 7, 4,900 calories. You're looking at over a pound of fat a week that I'm losing just by having this change. If so, if I switched and had the regular ice cream, I could literally be gaining over a pound of fat a week. One change. Wow. Simple. Okay. Is one gram of protein per pound of body weight actual science or just bro science? It It's probably more than you need. 8 g. I think that they round it off to one. That's the bro science. It's actually 0.88, which is basically anyone that's getting 08. If you bump it up to one, unless you're in a calorie deficit, unless you're dieting, it's probably not going to make any difference. So, it's just a cooler number. It's easy to remember, but if you weigh 200 lb instead of 200, if you have 160, you're going to gain just as much as somebody who's who was 200 lb. Unless, of course, you're on steroids or if you're on a crazy low calorie diet because some of that protein is going to be used for energy at that point. Now, one of the things when I was doing research for this podcast, you were giving very good dating advice and just relationship advice in general that I thought was very sound. What would you say the biggest mistakes are that young people make when it comes to dating or being in a relationship? Well, in in terms of dating and meeting woman, I think people are not themselves or they think they have to act a certain way that the woman will like. And the problem with that is they're never going to fall for you. you like if you act like you're cool or you act like you're this or act like you're that, it's never going to work because they're falling for not the real you. And then usually three to six months go by and they find out who you actually are and then it doesn't work. So you need to be yourself from day one. And don't listen to a woman tell you what she wants. You be yourself. She might say, "Treat me like a princess. Buy me this. Buy me that. Take me here. Take me there." They don't respect that. If a woman changes you, if you change for a woman, they're not going to respect you for that. They want to be with the man that is strong enough to be themselves. Also, I guess another question leads into that. What gives it away if someone's insecure? How does a woman know if you're insecure? There is no dead giveaway. I don't think that you can fake this. I think that you either are or you're not. I don't think that I can as an actor talk to a beautiful woman and be like, "Yeah, I'm just cool." And so what people have to do is I say progressive overload. you're just like literally now it might be I don't know if your show allows these words but you need to be around women to get used to it. And so if you're a man and you have no self-esteem and you're not confident you need to start hanging around with girls because if all we're just three guys talking around we're cool. Maybe you're like yeah Craig's so cool. He's like he's so himself. Then a woman walks in. It's like and then you stutter every word because you're not used to it. You get used to hanging around girls who are like let's say on a scale of 1 to 10 they're ones. They're 400 lb, 300 lb, whatever. You hang around them. You're not intimidated. She's overweight. Maybe she's very unattractive. And so you have no trouble with them. You get used to hang around those girls. Then you get higher. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9. Eventually, if you're a guy who has own an owner of a nightclub or a strip bar or something, you're hanging around with girls who are very attractive all the time. It's no big deal. So, you're naturally going to be the same. But if you only hang around with men and you suddenly go on a date with a beautiful woman, you're not going to know how to act. how you act is the same you do with your bros. The way you and I would talk if we're best friends, this is should be the same way you talk to a girl that you just met. If you start acting different, that's when they can tell. So, you have to be yourself. But within being yourself, there's your good self and your bad self. Being myself can be shy. Being myself can be confident. Depends on the situation I'm in. If I'm within a bunch of bodybuilders who work out, I'm very confident. I know all about it. But if I start talking about watches and cars and I'm like, "Don't you drive a McLaren and you have a watch?" Like I don't know how much I don't know. I don't know about it. I'm not very confident cuz I don't know that. But if I hung around these people all the time and I learned more, it would become comfortable for me. So you're saying spend a bunch of time with people of the opposite sex. Exactly. And start with women who you're not intimidated by. If you're trying to get gorgeous girls, you can't just start by like I'm just going to hang around a bunch of girls. You'd be uncomfortable. But if you like guys who have maybe they have a sister and their sister would bring their girlfriends over and they just naturally talk to these people all the time. It just it's normal. And so guys are just in today's day and age, people sit around and game and and sit on the computer. When I was younger, you talk to people. You'd hang around with people. You were in in the real world with people. But now people talk via texting and so on. So when you actually go on a date with a girl, you just don't know how to talk because you don't have any practice doing it. So people have a hard time being themselves. It's a good thing I spent a lot of time with Graham because I feel like I get a lot of feminine energy from him and I can kind of absorb that. And I learned that from Jack. Jack, feminine energy comes over to me. What would you say are some of the strongest pillars to a successful relationship? Honesty, communication, people that respect each other. I I think the problem is not everyone wants that. I don't think everyone wants their partner to be honest. Does somebody really want them to say, "I don't really think you're that attractive. I think you smell bad. I don't think you're cool." So, do people really want honesty? So, I think people are in relationships and I would say the reason that 50% of people are divorced is because people are in the proper relationships to begin with. But do they even want to be in the proper relationship? Do people really want to be with the person that's going to tell them everything that they think? Like really think about it. Everything. So, where do you draw the line? What do you think is like a good ratio for, you know, I think when in doubt, do it. I think when in doubt, you should do it. It's very difficult because do you really want to say to somebody like let's say I'm I'm short. I'm 5'6. Do if my girls are really attracted to six foot tall guys, do I want to hear her say like, you know, you're not that tall. I kind of like taller guys. They're going to feel like you're shitty. But like if they don't tell you, how do you know what she's thinking? But if you can trust them enough to say things, then they'll be more confident. Well, you know, I really like 6 feet tall, but man, you got some jacked arms. That's cool, too. And maybe you're not so high on the on the tall factor, but you got some nice abs. And so, I think it's better to just be honest and say, "Well, I prefer this, but like I love this." How much does height matter? You know, for a woman, it's excessively important for women. And you're shorter than me. So, it's very important. It's as important as looks. Like, uh, it's as important money. And actually, I I did some research on this. Every inch is worth about $30,000 a year. So, being 5'6, if I were 6 feet tall, I would have to make $180,000 to be the same attractiveness as a man who's 6 foot just because of my height. So, if I were 6'2, I mean, I would be excessively uh what do you call it? Like uh desirable for women. I have a lot of money and I'm famous. I have muscles. If I was 6'2, huge difference. If I was 5'2, would you date me? No. 5'2, not dating me. I'm a multi-millionaire and I'm famous as a 5'2 is not happening. What's the minimum height you'd have? 5'4. But when you say don't ask a woman what she wants because she won't give you the truth. Isn't this an example of that? If you say that, but if you were 5'2, exact same, I would argue she would probably still be dating you. She would not, but somebody would. There's millions of girls out there. And the being 4 foot, let's say, let's go with 4 foot n. It's going to be real hard to get some girls. But if you got millions of dollars, that's worth a lot. We just talk about 30,000 $30,000 per inch. If you're 6'2 at 6'3, which is this that's that's the ideal male height to get a girl, you're automatically going to get more girls. It's just easier. Now, does that mean I can't get a girl because I'm 5'6? No. But if I go on a dating service right now and they don't know who I am and I say, "Hey, swipe right. 5'6, 49 years old. Next, who's who wants to date a 49y old guy who's 5'6?" Not a lot. But if you say, "Yeah, famous, millions of dollars, this personality, get to know him first." And that's cool. But if you look at just height parameters on dating sites, most women, 85% not dating guys 5'6. It's auto like so I can only get 15% of women, but 15% of a million girls is still 15,000. So 15% of a billion, it's there's still lots out there. So but you are significantly reducing the amount of women who are interested in you, but who cares? You only need one. So what is your advice to a guy who's under 5'8 who's trying to get a shore king? get a hot freaking body and get a lot of money. Now, what about now? What about personalitywise yourself? Again, but I've seen I've seen some guys who like 5'6, have nothing going for them, but they are so charming. They are just charismatic, funny, everyone wants to be around them and they have no trouble despite being short and not having money. But it's but they they've got the best personality. Like you just One thing they are is they're getting into situations where they meet people Literally the best personality and charming and ugly and no money is going to get how many dates with people they don't ask out? Zero. They're going on that dating site, they're getting zero dates. They're not meeting any. But if you go to the coffee shops and you go to the sports teams, you're playing volleyball and pickle ball and you're going to the clubs all the time and you're meeting people and you're going to social events, you're going to meet people and they're going to be like, "Wow, you're really cool. I get to know you." But how do you get your foot in the door without without having something to offer? Like you need to be able to show them who you are. And so unless you're going into public places where actually meeting people you're not going to get to. And the problem is with most men, 85% roughly, they're not going to ask those girls out. They don't dare. They're not going to go to the gym and ask that girl out. But if you have enough confidence to get rejected, oh my god, you ask enough girls out, somebody going to say yes. Ask a 100 girls out, guaranteed one going to say yes. But how many people ask a 100 girls out even in a year? Do it in a day. Yeah. Now, speaking of making money, what is your advice for young people who want to make a lot of money? Uh, get good at something and study and work really hard at it. Um, I don't know. I like I my first thing would be why do you need to make a lot of money? Cuz money doesn't buy happiness. And having gone from having less money to a lot of money and having speaking from experience, it's not the money that makes you happy. It's the pursuit of the pursuit of getting better at something. Like when I consider money at this point, I almost consider like money is like monopoly. Like I want to if I'm playing Monopoly, I want to get the most money to win this game. I don't need more money, but it doesn't mean I'm not going to try because it's just like a currency of like improvement, self-improvement. I don't need to try to make more money. Like I'm not trying to make more money than this person or that person. I just want to make more for myself because that's a measure of success. Just like I want to get faster on a bike. I want to lift more on a bench press. So that's what I'm doing. But guys that want to make more money, I would be like, "Money ain't it. It's not going to make you happy. But is there anything wrong with trying to make more money? No. But you should enjoy what you're doing. That's the most important because if you don't like what you're doing, how long are you going to do it? Like if you if I liked if I didn't like making YouTube videos and it makes me a lot of money, how long would I actually do it? I probably wouldn't be doing, you know, 500 videos a year. How is your income broken down? Like in if we looked at a pie chart in terms of what percentage is what? Every year it's been completely different. Like when I when I first started making money, the first time I was making real money, it was from coaching by far. Probably getting around like 3/4 of uh yeah, like threequarters of a million dollars in a year from just coaching. And then I was like, okay, how do I like scale this up and I just kept putting my prices up, but then there's only so many people you can coach. Then I put out the cookbook and then all of a sudden, okay, that was selling so much that I would say 80% of my money was coming from cookbooks. And I says, "Well, I don't need to really coach people anymore because I'm making so much money from a cookbook." Then maybe one or two years the sales are really ridiculous and then they kind of go down every year. I mean, yeah. I mean, I I still sell enough cookbook like if anyone sold as many cookbooks as I had now, they would be super happy. Like I'm making hundreds of thousands a year on just a cookbook, but like I was making millions before, so it was way higher. Um, but the cookbook transition to now supplements. So I sell mostly supplements. So, I would say my supplements are probably like maybe 80% of my income now. Um, YouTube is is a good income because I I I make a lot of videos. Um, so there's there's a little bit of coaching, a lot of supplements, and then YouTube videos is probably my main source now, but I also have other platforms where I do like uh Billy Billy. It's like a Chinese YouTube and whatnot, like kind of thing. Yeah. What would you say is the most amount of money you've made in a single day? Well, I made 104,000 in a day selling cookbooks um on one video, but I've made maybe 240,000 in a day, like the release of a cookbook. Like, like you know what I mean? Cookbook two, I think cookbook two in one day made 240,000, but it's like that's a drop. That's not like just out of the blue. Like when I sold a,000 books and 104 books in 24 hours, like I made a video on YouTube and people are watching it and I went this the first time I made big money like this. like I'd made like maybe, you know, like 10 10,000 a day type of thing. That's like kind of was like normal, but I was like aund like I was literally looking at the Shopify and I was refreshing and I was like, there's no way that's that there's an extra zero there. Like I didn't believe it. And that was the most surreal memorable day of my life, I would say. Like I literally left to go to the gym and I was driving the car and it was like I was on like 20 grams of Molly or something. It was just like this high feeling over my whole body. Like I felt like something was coming out of my skin. Like I can't express how much I was like I made it. Like my my problems I like I had enough money just from that one day. And like this continued for a long time making ridiculous sales from the cookbook. I just I couldn't believe it. And so it was this like feeling of like I've made it and this surreal feel like it made more money than I ever thought I could ever make. So it was just monumental to me and it just lasted for so long. And then I was chasing that high again. And so I released the cookbook too and like I had more money in that first day, but then the sales didn't continue. It wasn't like crazy high. And then I was like I released the third cookbook and the sales were a bit less. And it's like I'm never going to get the same high ever in my life from that. If I made a if I made a billion dollars today, I don't think I would be more excited than when I made that 100,000 because after you make a certain amount of money, there's no it doesn't matter. It doesn't change your lifestyle. No. Like if I made if you gave me $100 million, Mr. Beast is like, "Hey, Greg, hundred million here." I'd be like, "Wow, that's cool." But like, doesn't change anything. So, where's the point of diminishing returns in terms of money? I would say the max is at about a million dollars a year. Like, and research kind of was saying that. I looked at some studies and it was like around a h 100,000. It was like you don't get happier. And I was like, no, you get happier till probably a million. But I don't think it's the money per se even. I think it's the fact that you know that you've accomplished so much and it's the thrill of being better accomplished. Like you go to university, you study, you work, and when you make 100, 200, 300, 400, it's like there's this increased happiness. But at a million to two to five to 10, I don't think there's a big difference. I don't think there's any difference. And I think that actually can be a deterrent. I think that if you go and make a million a year, you're really like, who who doesn't want to make a million dollars a year? That's great. Then you make five, you make 10, then you go back to one. One sucks. If I only made a million dollars in that year now, I'd be like, what am I doing wrong? I would feel horrible. Not because I need the money, but I'd be like, "What have I done wrong where now I'm just not excelling at what I do. I just want to be good at it." I would compare it to you win the Mr. Olympia. Chris Bump said he won this Mr. Olympia six years in a row. He comes back and gets eighth. Eighth's amazing. If I went to the Mr. Olympia and got eighth, I would just be like, what did I just do? But Chris would be, how did I [ __ ] up so bad? So that's the problem with these young influencers. I talked to a lot of these guys. They're making a million dollars a year or more and they're buying [ __ ] and spending on Lamborghinis and all stuff. And I'm like, "You don't need that. You can't just keep buying a more expensive car. Like, I got a a McLaren 720S." And I'm like, "Should I get a Bugatti now? Will that make me more happy?" And I was thinking about, "Yeah, you know, get a Bugatti. It's a couple million dollars, whatever. That that'll look cool." And I'm like, "Am I doing it for me? I don't even want a Bugatti." I'm like, "Am I just trying to brag that I had a lot of money?" Like, how does it make you happy? I don't think it does. And so for me, like the money is just it's fun to make, but it's almost a measure of like your success rather than actually needing that money. And I think that we are just obsessed with having to make all this money. And then for what? To show off to to who? To to show off to my girlfriend. Like I'm going to get look at what my boyfriend's like. Why do I need to do that? I don't think that matters. And so at this point, like I basically stop watching TV and I read books and I'm just trying to be more knowledgeable and experience the world through different lenses and just try to like learn and to grow. So would you rather be uh rich but out of shape or in really good shape but not rich? I have to be in shape. I would pay every scent I own to be in shape. Like if I could get rid of all of it, if I could take a zero off my income, I would take that in a second over gaining 25 pounds of fat. There's no way I just want to be this fat soft. Like I just my dopamine comes from personal improvement. I wouldn't get Do you know of all the vehicles I have, the most important one is my stationary bike. By far I would trade all my fancy vehicles and drive a Toyota Corolla from 19 whatever over not having my bike cuz that's the thing I love the most and I spend the most time in it by far. The freaking McLaren, I need that. I only drive in the summer anyway. Like, who cares? But my bicycle, I need my bike. If you could delete one influencer off the internet forever, who would it be? Who's the worst influencer that is like, man, the worst one? I think we're going to go with Togei. Toi. Toi. Wait, why? Because he's promoting gambling, recreational drugs, and he's almost created a paradigm shift in thinking that promoting and glorifying drugs is cool. This guy has a lot of power. He can go and meet people and people know who he is and everyone wants to be like Togi. Do you know what I'm going to do now? I'm gonna take a bunch of steroids. I'm gonna gamble and do drugs and promoted. I'm going to just get wrecked and make videos and maybe I'll get famous. So, we probably got 10,000 guys right now trying to be toi right now using steroids, using drugs, doing everything to try to become famous. It worked for him. Will it work for anyone else? I don't know. But that's a bad influence on a lot of young people. Toby, if you're watching this, I've always wanted to have you on the ice coffee hour because because I feel like we could have such a good discussion mainly about money because he said he has a goal of making or being and he said he said he was like 90% there. I believe anything this guy says. I don't know about that cuz that sounds kind of crazy. Making 10 million worth there in the grave. I mean, he almost died from an overdose on freaking aderall with meth. But I I do think that we could have a very because Graham and I are like basically diametrically opposed to Togei in terms of just like personality, character and stuff like that, risks that we take and according to our career and stuff like that. So I feel like we could have a very productive conversation with Togei. Toi, if you're watching, come on the show, please. We'll come to you. We're open to it. Who do you think is most underrated fitness influencer? It would be anybody who I've never heard of. Every single person that I know of is not underrated in my opinion. Like as soon as you get a million followers, can you be underrated? Could I be underrated? Could Will Tennyson? Could Jesse James? Could any of these top level influencers be underrated? When you have millions of followers, I think all of us are overrated. Anyone that has millions of followers and like, okay, I have a like I have what, 2 million followers. If somebody has 2,000 followers, am I really a thousand times more better than them? I I can't imagine it. So, anyone who's working really hard that's producing videos that people aren't seeing, I think those are the underrated people. I don't think it's anyone that's cuz if I name somebody that's famous, they're probably not underrated. Would you rather have a dadbot and be 6'5 or be shredded and be 5'5? I'd rather be me. I am 5'5 and shredded. Well, 5'6, but it's close enough over a dadbot. Unless it's Jason Mimoa or or Chris Bum said, then I'll take those. Who's someone in the industry that you think is legit and deserves more respect? More respect. That's legit. Who's not respected? Everyone I know that has a lot of followers is respected. Like if you go to I don't know, have you ever been to like an Arnold's or a Mr. Olympia or anything? All these fitness influencers or Young LA guys or or anyone that's post like like any of these like famous fitness influencers. It is unbelievable the amount of respect that everyone is getting. So I don't see anyone getting no respect. Like there's hundreds of people, thousands trying to take photos with every single influencer that has like say a million followers or more. Like they will literally do anything to get a photo with you. Like it's it's like you're a superstar. Like I literally feel like the rock when I go to a fitness event. Like it's it's unbelievable. Like everyone wants to talk to you, take a photo, take some time, and you just can't meet everyone. And so it's surreal. Like it's hard to believe that there's that many people. So I don't think anyone is not is needs more respect. The respect at an event like that. So if you're a famous fitness influencer and you've never been, go because your life will be changed after doing this. It's unbelievable. If you had to live with one fitness influencer for a year, who would it be and who would be the worst? Who would I least like? It's got to be Mike Isertell. Now, even though we've squashed the beef, have you? It doesn't sound like it. Well, like I can squash a beef with a guy, but doesn't mean I want to live with him for a year. Like, would I really want to spend a year? I I can't get into it cuz the beef is over. The beef is 30 videos long. How have I not? I I haven't. I watch. You haven't seen it? I forget a lot. You know who Kendrick is or Drake? It's bigger than that. It all stems it all stems from from not having a proper tan is what it stems from. But I mean, partly the the the lack of having a great tan. And yeah, I I do want to say we've had Mike on the podcast and he's been nothing but amazing to us at least. Like he's like the nicest guy ever. He invited us into his home. I don't want to say anything. He's hilarious. Very funny. Yeah. I don't want to say anything about negative about Mike cuz he's honestly treated us incredibly well. So, but yeah, I mean, he's just said some things about me and I've said some things about him and if you're not familiar, I don't want to repeat them again. I wouldn't be really Yeah. What do you think is going to be the next big lie of the fitness industry? That's a great question. I mean, if I sat down and had an hour, I might be able to come up with an answer, but I don't know what the next big lie is. I think it's going to continue to be like being a fake natty or doing HRT is a thing. I know one thing that's going to come up that's going to be huge is going to be GLP1s for fat loss. People are going to be using ompic. I think that perhaps saying that those things can be used with no negative side effects or no negative consequences like are you familiar with those Zmpic and all these GLP1s like for weight loss you basically inject yourself with with a drug and it makes you not hungry and a lot of people lose muscle and I think it's going to be the biggest thing in the fitness industry in 2 3 4 years from now like we even sell a GLP1 like an oral version of this product reduces your appetite and so we could basically cure obesity because if you're not hungry why are you overweight unless you're, you know, eating because you're sad or something. So, but is that going to cause negative side effects down the road? Like people using it for 10 years? Like, who knows? That could be something scary. Is there a question you wish more people would ask you what I'm like in real life? Perhaps people would I don't know. It's like to ask me, but assuming that just because I make a video and say a certain thing, then that that's got to be like who I am as a real person. Like I think people they'll talk to me. and they be like, "You have a normal voice. You don't like just scream all the time." Like, I don't sit at a party and freak out and call everyone not natural. Like, I'm just a chill guy. Like, but people think it like they can't imagine just me being normal and like a normal girl liking me. Like, I've had people like, there's no way that a girl would ever like you, your voice. And I'm like, I'm just a normal guy. Like, I'm just normal. And I would argue one of the most normal bodybuilders you can get cuz most bodybuilders, they're not going to eat normal food. you're not going to go out. I was like, it's a week out from a show. I'm like, "Yeah, you want to go to the bar and let's go dance? I'll have a good time. Let's do it." Like, I'll go to a restaurant. I'm just normal. I had a normal job. I was a school teacher and I was dieting at the same time. I wouldn't freak. And I'm like, I I feel like I'm a normal bodybuilder, but bodybuilders in inherently are not normal. How do you hype yourself up before you film? I don't need to. I don't drink caffeine. I'll go in. I could just sit here like this and and then I just start the video and I just I have a lot of passion for the sport and when I talk about something it just it just as soon as I get going I I really do get going and so I don't need to to talk myself into it. People think I snort lines of creatine which is not creatine but cocaine. I don't do that. Um I don't drink caffeine before doing my videos. I just literally go but I pick topics that I have passion for and I'm very passionate when I speak and like I mean I used to be a phys teacher for 11 years. I have to walk in and the grade primary kids are there, you know, 5-year-olds and we get them hyped up. We're going to play in gym class. So, I just used to being excited or even if it was in the classroom like history again, but if I could amp up the story a little bit and get some excitement, the kids would pay attention. So, it just comes from practice. What would you say is your biggest insecurity? I have a horrible memory, but I don't like I I lean into it. I'm like, I don't remember your name. All these famous people come and visit me and I'm like like Eric Janicki, I spent two days practicing his name. Or Mitchell Hooper. I called him Michael Cooper and I was like I just couldn't do it. I just like I don't have this memory. Um so perhaps perhaps my sense of direction I would say yeah that's my worst like I can't like like I have a I'm a genius with a learning disability. I tell people all the time literally like you know I I just can't do it. Like I can't find directions. We were talking even before I was like I couldn't get my help back there. Like I can't I get lost driving to my house multiple times and I've lived there for a year and a half in Halifax. How is that possible? But yet it happens. Do you think you could take Bradley Martin in a street fight? He's 260, bro. No way. Couldn't do it. Two Brad. You're supposed You're supposed to say yes. You're supposed to say yes. Why would I say yes? Because it's just like an a long ongoing I'm so familiar with Bradley Martin asking everyone that, but I like literally I just like answering questions honestly and I think Bradley would destroy me. What if you had what if you had a tire iron? Do you think you could do it? That's a great question. Okay, I got the tire iron. Yeah. Like what would what would you even the playing field? I think with a tire and iron. Yeah. What would be the perfect material that you could use to make it perfectly even? Not a gun. Uh tire iron. That's it. Baseball bat. I'd have too much of an advantage. If you spoke a little bit slower, you'd sound very similar to Jordan Peterson. A lot of people said, "I'm Jordan Peterson on steroids." And I'm like, "Who's Jordan Peterson?" This like 5 years ago. And I looked him up and I'm like, "Oh, it's a compliment. This guy's actually famous. He's from Canada." because we're both Canadian. Toronto. Yeah, I've had that a lot. I like Jordan Peterson a lot. I've read I've read his 12 rules of life. I read it after you have. Yeah. I went to see him at a at a at a concert. I I got backstage with him, took photo with him. Huge respect for him. I had him on the show. He was great. He's awesome. He's so smart. He's I I It's like he speaks and he'll like look down, his eyes are closed. He's trying to think of every sentence perfectly. He's like talking on the stage and he's like his eyes are closed the whole time. like he so passionate about it and and he speaks so well. Yeah. He's one of my like would be like one of my role models for for you know for life. The one of the guys I listen to a lot. Yeah. Cool. This is the uh put it into the mic too when you Okay. People that watch me know my worth and value. It's whatever. Can you give us your best Greg impression? Oh my god. Are you kidding me? I told you he's not Maddie. How was that? Is it good? That's not bad. He's not daddy. Oh my goodness. That That's crazy to see in real life. I watch my old videos and I there's different phases where I'm like, "Oh, that's like a cringy Greg like it's him as my nasly Greg." I I find that my voice is maybe louder now, but like or like more normal now, but it's more like my real voice that's like almost put on like I was just yelling too loud, but it's certainly changed over the years. Like I definitely sound different. Can you give us an impression of Jesse James West? Okay, guys. We got to go. We got to go it on. It's It's amazing. And then then he has to screw up and then do it again. No. Uh uh. It's fitness influencers versus bodybuilders. No, it's fitness influencers versus people who wait. And then so the Jesse James impersonation has to be you do it with extreme excitement, but you have to take retake the takeover 10 straight times. This is Jesse James. So if you're So if you're in a Jesse James video, you have to redo the scene 10 times to get it perfect because he's a perfectionist. I think everyone does that in fairness. I Coach Greg does not do this. I make one. You're perfect off Red. I I'm far from that, but I think that people like the mistakes. They like seeing you screw up. And honestly, how many videos have I done where I say something, I say the person's name. I did a video on RFK and I called him JFK six times throughout and the other was like RFK, RFK. or I call like Mike Thirsten the wrong name. So the wrong name and people are like laughing. They're like I can't believe it. So the more mistakes I have in a video the better. Like if I made a if I said we're saying Mitch Mitchell Hooper if I said Michael Cooper right here with a straight face and I didn't notice and people are like bro just say Mitchell Cooper or whatever like it's just funnier. So why why redo it? Just go. So I speak when I do my videos there's no one in the room. I have the I pre the the the the videographer guy presses record and walks out because I'm too stupid to remember to press these buttons and hate it and I talk and then when the video is done I press then and I walk out the room and I don't do anything. So there's a lot of mistakes in there and the editors sometimes will like take the scene out or whatever but like a lot of times I just put it in there because it's more fun. Interesting. That was perfect. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. This is a blast. I love this. I had a good time. Awesome. Thank you guys for watching so much. Yep. We're going to link to all of your info down below in the description along with the cookbook. So, for people that want to follow along, that is down below. Thank you so much and until next time.